Part of the problem

by Screw O.U. on Jan 30, 2007 8:29 PM CST Comment 29 comments

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/news/story?id=2748092

Once again a star athlete finds himself above the law. Everyone seems to wonder why so many of these guys end up being thugs and criminals but they never stop to ask these scum-bag lawyers and hangers-on why they run to the "justice system" to get the rules bent everytime the athlete finds himself in hot water. This guy is a high school kid who should have been taught early on to shut his freakin' pie-hole and play the damned game!!! I am so sick and tired of these primadonas (SP?) and all the people defending them.

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i've seen the video

That ref pulled a manu- or dirk-like flop. Mayo just barely grazed him, and he fell down as if he were hit by a car.

But I do agree with you on the basic principle of your rant. I hate it when athletes, good or not, get preferential treatment.

This case is just a lack of discipline on the players' parts. Most of the suspensions were for players leaving the bench during an on-court trash-talking session. Mayo's second T (and ejection) were almost inexplicable, because he appeared to not do or say anything to get it called. I could be wrong, but this appears to be a case of bad refs who were afraid of losing control of a game more than anything else.

...til Gabriel blows his horn

by BigTexBD on Jan 30, 2007 10:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Flop

The ref's flop was pretty embarrassing.

However, I have seen highlights of Mayo's games, and one of them included stopping on a fast break, throwing the ball off the backboard, and dunking the rebound. It was in a blowout loss. Completely classless.

Thank God KD keeps it real.

by whoopspat on Jan 30, 2007 10:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Good point

I can't find the video, but other comments I've read seem to match yours that it was a pretty good acting job by the ref. You're probably right on about the refs being scared of the situation getting way out of control - it's a shame we've gotten to the point where the adults are all afraid of these kids (and their parents).

by Screw O.U. on Jan 30, 2007 10:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

on behalf of defense lawyers...

shut the fuck up. you don't know what you're talking about.

obviously, no one SHOULD get preferential treatment under the law, but to blame the players or the lawyers who defend them for making the best case possible is ridiculous. lawyers have a responsibility to defend their clients vigorously and that means putting on the best case possible. so calling them "scum-bag lawyers" is ignorant and unenlightened.

the fact is, you're sort of right. if he were any other black kid, he'd be treated more harshly. but if he were any other white kid, he'd be treated more leniently. that's just the way it works in the criminal justice system. i'm not saying it should be the inverse, I'm just saying that you should probably stop classifying everyone who you think doesn't uphold the standards you seem to cling to as "thugs and criminals." you wouldn't be calling him a thug or a criminal if he were white. and you wouldn't be calling his lawyers "scum bags" if you understood ANYTHING about the criminal justice system.

so why don't you do everyone a favor and shut the fuck up.

by billyzane on Jan 30, 2007 11:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

in conclusion...

i should not post drunk. however, i stand by what i said.

i apologize for being mean, but i get really defensive about criminal defense [no pun intended]. I've spent a few years doing it and I've come to understand just how little the outside world understands about it. apologies all around.

by billyzane on Jan 30, 2007 11:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lol

BZ, your points were right on, man.

And you're usually so lawyerly and restrained when making your points that it was sort of stunning to see the emphatic STFUs.

As much injustice as there is in the discussion of the justice system, though, I think I understand.

--PB--

by Peter Bean on Jan 30, 2007 11:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i should probably refrain

from drinking 7 or 8 pints and then coming home and posting profanity-laden diatribes. I have a problem, PB, and that problem is my addiction to BON, not alcohol.

by billyzane on Jan 30, 2007 11:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I can relate

I have the same problem.

With pints & posting. And BON, too.

--PB--

by Peter Bean on Jan 31, 2007 12:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No need to apologize

You're absolutely right. Defense lawyers are doing their jobs. And in fact, if they don't do their job to the best of their abilities they could be disbarred.

It's not the lawyers fault. It's the freaking media for overhyping high schoolers, corporate sponsors that pay for the high priced lawyers, and special interest groups that think these kids are somehow suffering an injustice. It's the "Reggie Bush clause". If I can possibly make any money off this kid in the future, I'm going to shower him with everything I can now.

If it weren't for physics and law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable.

by GoHorns on Jan 31, 2007 7:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Preaching to the choir

BillyZ...I don't know much at all about the case.
I'm always amazed about the justice system that prevails OUTSIDE the courts..

Just Remember, No Matter What Happens, ou SUCKS.

by ouALWAYSsux on Jan 31, 2007 8:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I probably

should have said "in-justice" system

Just Remember, No Matter What Happens, ou SUCKS.

by ouALWAYSsux on Jan 31, 2007 8:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Take a breath...

Let's clarify a few things here before your head explodes:

"Thugs and Criminals" - in no way, shape or form am I classifying every black, white, brown or yellow athlete who gets into trouble on occasion as a "thug or criminal". I would direct you to the following, however, who have probably no doubt received preferential treatment throughout their lives because they are great athletes: 95% of the entire Cincinnati Bengal team; Ray Lewis; Mike Tyson; OJ Simpson; Dennis Rodman; I'd put a white guy in here at this point to avoid anymore of your insinuations (SP?) that I am a racist, but I cannot think of one at this point (I know there are plenty but none come to my mind); need I go on? And for your information, I would have said EXACTLY the same thing if the kid had been white - it has nothing to do with skin color and everything to do with the fact that a lot of these kids have absolutely NO RESPECT for authority.
"Scum-bag Lawyers" - again, I am in no way classifying all lawyers, defense or otherwise - yourself included - as scum-bags. I am simply referring to those who see a potential cash cow - like this kid - and latch on in hopes of a big payday someday. There is no doubt lawyers play a critical role in our society - I just don't think this case classifies as "critical". The RIGHT thing would have been to sit this kid down, put some books in his hands and tell him to spend his two-game suspension studying something other than sports.
"Shut the fuck up because you do not know what you are talking about" - you're right, I am not a lawyer and know little to nothing about the legal system. But I do have an opinion, to which I am entitled, and I expressed it. I also know proper and improper behavior and the consequences of behaving improperly - someone should teach this kid, Mayo, and a ton others like him about choices and consequences - that's the only point I was trying to make.

Take a breath and have a beer on me.

by Screw O.U. on Jan 31, 2007 9:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

A few more clarifications / thoughts....

It is well-documented that the ref did a hell of an acting job on the "flop". However, and I know this is going to piss you lawyers off, the kid probably should not have put himself in the position to be accused of bumping the ref. Hindsight is definitely 20/20, but he probably should have just gone and taken his seat after the tech and none of this would have happened. There is plenty of blame to go around.
If you read the article you will find the phrase "MYTHICAL national championship" used as a justification for defending this kid. I'm sorry, but if it is mythical can't they still say they won it even if he wasn't playing.
I don't see how the "greater good" is served by tieing up the court system with this kind of BS - my opinion only, as a non-lawyer, and maybe my new pal BZ can enlighten me as to any legal ramifications or benefit a case like this has for the rest of us. Mayo is a stud athlete and his ticket to SC is already punched - missing two games would not have jeopardized his scholarship or future. My belief is he may have actually learned a lesson, as would many of his teammates, had he received his punishment. Chances are this gets tied up in the justice system until basketball season is over and the kid never gets any type of punishment at all. The rules are the rules even when they are poorly enforced.

Sorry I pissed off the lawyers but, hey, at least I know better than to crack on Darrell Royal - that's more than can be said for dvehabovic.

by Screw O.U. on Jan 31, 2007 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

again, i apologize for the tone of the post

But I think you just made my point for me in your reply. The reason you can't think of any white athletes off the top of your head who have received preferential treatment because they're famous athletes is because when we think of "thugs and criminals" in sports, we think of black people. It's not that we're overtly racist; it's just the association of words and pictures that we've had our entire lives. So while there probably have been white criminals who have gotten the benefits of being famous athletes, you, nor anyone else, would call them a "thug." That term doesn't refer to a type of person, it is code for a certain type of BLACK person.

As for the criminal justice system, I'm not positive that famous athletes get breaks because they're famous athletes. For the most part, I think they get breaks becaue they're rich and can afford good lawyers. OJ Simpson didn't get off because he was famous, he got off because he was rich. And then you blame the excellent lawyers who got them off for doing their jobs. Obviously, this doesn't apply to OJ Mayo because he's in high school, but at this point, I'm talking about more than OJ Mayo.

To take it a step further, one of the reasons you couldn't think of a white athlete who has cashed in on his fame in the CJ system is the dichotomy between black and white in that system. When you see a white person (whether normal, poor, rich, or famous) not get punished as much as you want for something they allegedly did, it's generally pretty evenly divided between the rich and famous and those that are not. You see white people get leniency regularly in the CJ system. But when you see a black person get leniency, they're always rich and/or famous. So when you think of athletes who have used their fame as an athlete or whatever to avoid punishment where you think they should have gotten it, you only think of black people.

That doesn't make you a racist, but it does make you guilty of at least unconsciously harboring prejudices that you then, in turn, spread around as truth. We all (white or black or otherwise) harbor these prejudices in some capactiy, but I'm just saying that getting all paternalistic and saying "I know what's best for these kids and that's for them to be just like me" isn't productive. The trick is to NOT embrace the prejudices that have been ingrained in us forever. You seem to have done the opposite.

by billyzane on Jan 31, 2007 10:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What about Jason Williams

The white one from Florida. He is a white guy who is thuggish.

by Wells on Jan 31, 2007 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

this is sort of true

though i'm not sure "thug" is the word most people would use to describe him. But if it is, it's more than likely becuase he emulates black culture. Case in point: his nickname is "white chocolate." It's the so-called "blackness" of his cultural disposition that allows people to label him a "thug."

John Stockton was widely regarded as a dirty player (albeit a great one), but no one called him a thug because he was so aggressively "white" with the short shorts and the playing in Utah thing.

Now, I don't mean to say that no white athletes are ever considered "thugs." Bill Laimbeer is one that pops into my mind. But he's the exception that proves the rule in that he had to be the most outrageous and blatantly violent player in the history of the NBA to get that title. Additionally, black athletes are often characterized as "thugs" for their behavior off the court or field, whether criminal/violent or not. Black athlete arrested ffor possession of marijuana = thug. White athlete arrested for beating his wife = "anger management issues."

I'm not saying we should refer to white people as thugs too - I think the word itself is dumb - i'm just trying to point out the double standard.

by billyzane on Jan 31, 2007 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

An example

of a VERY white man getting into trouble might be Barry Switzer getting caught with a gun at the airport. Less was made of it, IMO, then the recent incident involving Michael Vick.

by BrooklynHorn on Feb 1, 2007 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Another...

The Phillies pitcher, cannot remember his name, that kicked his wife's ass on a street corner, went to anger management and was allowed to pitch in the playoffs.

by Screw O.U. on Feb 1, 2007 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I hear you

I understand where you're coming from and I clearly chose some poor words / descriptions to express my disgust. Bottom line is it appears to me it is all getting way out of hand and at some point someone has to be accountable - it should start with the parents.

by Screw O.U. on Jan 31, 2007 8:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Woah Nelly BZ!

Slammin' pints on a school night...dude I was a bit shocked as well, but nice recovery, and no apology needed. You've got alot of pride about what you do and its noble you stand up for it.

As a fellow worker in the Legal field I'll say two things about this article and your response that sorta relate:

I'm kinda glad there was video to go with this story because it would be all too easy to assume this kid was another spoiled thug (or pageant contestant, see 'Texas/Oklahoma Rivalry' diary for more on that!) and in this case it certainly looks like the ref deceided well in advance of the game he was going to 'do something' to set this kid straight. That being the case I think its perfectly okay for the kid/team to seek legal help to get him back on the Court. The unfortunate thing is that every time some punk abuses the system to get their way in a total perversion of justice/intent of the law we all tend to remember that alot longer than the 99 other times (okay maybe 97 or 98) out of 100 the system worked out pretty darn well.
I think the real reason that these situations are happening more and more are really something we all have to be accountable for and take a good hard look at. The parts of this article that jumped out to me as really striking were not mentioned by any other posters:
a) the asst. coach of the team was an attorney! hey a whole new career path opportunity BZ!!! What's next Paralegals as trainers and water boys?
b) the school district seemed to act without any real due process, and by that I mean looking at the facts in a slightly more inclusive way, not just "if 'a' happens then 'b' is/always will be, the penalty". You don't have to have counsel there to deal with this if the school board took the circumstances into question and, dare I say, took the official to task for being an ass. He's an adult, hired by the district to officiate, i.e. keep order, and for all his bluster and ego the player is a minor whose has been built up by any number of other adults telling him he's gonna be the next King James. Dude how jacked up is that to deal with at 17 or 18 years old?

Bottom line, I'd love to see the NCAA and high school's in general reach an accord to minimize this stuff. Put rules into play that intentionally ground the whole recruiting process to school grounds and involve the coaches and parents jointly. Not just the parents, who are beign tempted ala Reggie Bush's fam. Finally, maybe we don't need to have national rankings for H.S. Basketball and Football teams to fill our lives in between our fav college sports seasons. How ridiculous and arbitrary is something like that anyhow? How could you possibly rank an areas team as best in the country when they will never play against anyone other than teams in their own district/city/state?

That being said, I gotta go, I see here that UT is ranked 2nd in 2007 Team Recruiting!!!

by longhornJ on Jan 31, 2007 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Video

Can be found here:

http://www.wsaz.com/home/headlines/5410146.html

by sideshow on Jan 31, 2007 8:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I went to Huntington HS for a year

There are definitely a lot of thugs and wannabe thugs around there, but it seems like this situation was blown out of proportion.

But hey, maybe when he gets to USC his family can live in a mansion for free.

by SelimSivad on Jan 31, 2007 8:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

SCREWOU

Normally I would have agreed with you, but after watching that video, Mayo is not really at fault. He did not attack the reff, the reff was just putting on a show.

by Wells on Jan 31, 2007 9:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

screwou are you kidding me?

Way to judge this kid before you see what happens... Do that alot?

LOL im sure you wouldnt have judged this kid had he been a Texas recruit but because he is going to USC HAHA........

I think Reggie Bush made the ref fall right?

by USCitS on Jan 31, 2007 11:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

and the house Reggie's parents stayed in...

his Jr. year on was just a 'really great deal' they found online or something hmmmmm...and they moved out in the middle of the night shortly after the story broke because they had nothing to hide and did nothing wrong...

Riiiiight!

by longhornJ on Jan 31, 2007 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyQxPf3JKWM&eurl=

by USCitS on Jan 31, 2007 11:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!

Clearly I am in the minority on this deal. I knew I was taking the unpopular position when I made the post, but I sure didn't anticipate the prison rape I received!!! Apologies to anyone offended.

Two thoughts on the video:

Is it POSSIBLE Mayo said something when he went back to midcourt resulting in him receiving a second technical (the only video I can get is on YouTube and the audio isn't very good)?
Is it POSSIBLE that Mayo accidentally stepped on the ref's foot? From the way he fell, it looks like it MAY have been possible that there wasn't necessarily a bump but that the two somehow got their feet tangled (again, the only video I can get is on YouTube and does not show anything from the waist down).

I feel confident there will be plenty of responses - please use Vaseline this time!

by Screw O.U. on Jan 31, 2007 7:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs