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Mike Leach Fined

So here we have it. Mike Leach was slapped with a fine. Apparently, it's the largest fine the Big 12 has ever given out. What do y'all think?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/ncaa/11/13/leach.fine.ap/index.html

Poll
Do you think the fine was appropriate?
No, he should have be fined less
6 votes
No, he shouldn't have been fined at all for expressing his opinion
16 votes
No, he should have been fined more
46 votes
Yes, $10,000 should teach him a lesson
27 votes

95 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

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can we be honest in our victory?

The first UT touchdown should have been called back.  Now I'd like to think we'd have scored anyhow but you never know they might have held us to say a FG.  If you go a step further and say that offensive holding is a call that could be made on almost every play, or would that other TD have been called back if it was initially ruled a TD and the same guy that allowed our 1st TD allowed this one?  Now you've got about a 10 point swing here and that game is alot closer that it ended up.

I still think we would have won, but I truly hate sloppy officiating and wish the league would not always take the approach that officials are above reporoach.  I've heard tell that they are 'graded' on every game they do, I wonder why we don't get to see those report cards or know when they admitt they screwed the pooch on a call or two.  We have certainly been on the wrong side of calls like that before and I just wish there was more accountability from the officials.

by longhornJ on Nov 13, 2007 3:44 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The call on the first touchdown was correct

This has already been discussed pretty extensively in another diary, but the Shipley touchdown call was correct.  As "agent orange" pointed out, there was a similar play described by an official: the expert opinion

"The integral part (and sorry about the caps, that was him, not me!) - "...THE RECEIVER'S TOE IS IN BOUNDS. THUS HE IS GROUNDED IN BOUND.  THE ENTIRE FOOT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE GROUNDED ONLY A PART OF IT.  LIKEWISE, IF ONLY HIS TOE WAS ON THE SIDELINE HE WOULD BE DEEMED OUT OF BOUNDS."

It does not matter that Shipley's heel subsequently touched out-of-bounds.  At the moment his toe touched, he was considered grounded and it was a touchdown.  No different than dragging a toe from in-bounds to out-of-bounds.  

As far as the hold on Kindle, that is definitley not something that you see on every play.  Anytime an offensive lineman grabs a defender around the neck as he is flying by him and then slams him to the ground, will get a holding call.  It was pretty blatant and obvious.

The other touchdown that was called back was clearly an incomplete pass.  Leach was just trying to deflect attention away from the fact that their defense was horrible and could not stop us from running all over them.

by hookem33 on Nov 13, 2007 4:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand...

The whole, "Heel, toe" rule.  Why is this the first time I've heard of it?  It seems like it should be first contact with the ground.  Why then can you drag a toe, even if your whole body comes down out of bounds?  It seems like a conflict of intent on the rule's part.  

I'm not arguing that since it doesn't make sense, it should be ignored.  It just seems to create a contradiction.  Am I supposed to call him out just because he came down facing the endzone, and in dragging his toe, naturally brought his heel down next?  It seems that if he had caught the ball facing the other direction, he would have dragged a toe and fallen on his knees or his side out of bounds, but it would not be in question.  I think the officials made the right call in saying that his momentum was taking him out, and therefore it was a toe-drag.  The problem I have with it is that heel-toe rule makes me use phrases like "toe-drag" as a noun in order to make sense of what happened.

Growing up, I only fed Jared Norton paper. That's why he eats plays.

by Horn Brain on Nov 13, 2007 4:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Integrity vs. transparency

There is a larger issue here, several, in fact.

The first UT TD was iffy; I thought it would be called back and even the later explanation relayed by TV analyst - proper toe dragging - seemed inadequate. However, Tech had even less footing for it's complaints, all well documented on film.

So, the $10K fine is for going public with the complaint, specifically stated in the citation:

"Coach Leach's public statements called into question the integrity and competence of game officials and the conference's officiating program," Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe said.

Beebe is basically saying that questioning one official casts a dispersion on all of them, on their integrity and competence, and indirectly on all calls on the field, affecting the results of every game (well, not Baylor, maybe, but most of them).

Of course, if the officiating crews were perfect, we wouldn't need the instant replay cameras, would we? But the key human problem is that officials can't be everywhere, cover all angles at all the time, and their view, even when in the proper position, can be blocked or at least obscured. More officials might alleviate some of that natural problem but certainly not all of it.

The key questions the instant replay cameras seem to address more than anything are fine line judgments of very fast plays, from the end or sideline toe drag, completions and fumbles, and the penetration of the ball on the plane of the goal (or first down).

Some of these involve seeing things on two different planes; that is, possession on a high catch right on the end line, where one ref is trying to see both the hands and the ball and the feet at the line. These are tough calls by definition. More than one set of eyes on the event and officials' conference can sort through some of this, but it is still a tough call, particularly if the ref is too far away or even too close. Fumbles can be chaotic, with bodies flying every which way.

So, what the cameras are trying to supplement are the refined judgments which are the most difficult the officials make and to avoid mistakes which might alter the game. We all know calls, like TOs, can change a game. We just want to be confident that for a high percentage of time, the calls - and the corrected calls - are accurate and reliable.

Leach called into question both of these notions and he didn't have a strong case to represent his complaints. This wasn't an OU against Oregon type of blunder. Perhaps Leach was just reacting from an emotional basis - which I think is the case - and can't back down. Or be responsible, which is the same thing in this case.  

Tech has not responded to the charges as of yet and Leach hasn't backed down. But the problem now is scale: Leach launched a major assault, one where you must have some real meat to back up an extraordinary claim, and has no real extraordinary evidence to back it up, either in the game or as a process over this season.

For all we know, he could be right, but he has no evidence. So, he will be cut $10K for impudence and demeaning his own league. He may be a smart guy, but this wasn't too bright. He has avenues to raise hell - all Big 12 coaches do - and perhaps he could have forced some change, some better scrutiny at the very least. Now he has inadvertently raised the bar for the next coach who might have a real complaint. Whoever that might be, they better have real evidence in hand.

I think more transparency of officials would be good but they are behind a Chinese Wall. I'm sure the Big 12 won't release any of their grading or even any reprimands or punishment they levy. However, the cameras are reminding us that officials are human and do make mistakes both of vision and judgment: to humanize the refs in some manner would be a smart move by the Big 12.

If Leach had approached this in a manner to increase the integrity and competence of the Big 12, he could possibly have gained a better hearing. Bringing sour grapes to the table will only get you some bitter wine.  

by whills on Nov 13, 2007 4:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

To clarify

I should have used aspersion - a false or misleading charge meant to harm someone's reputation - in lieu of dispersion because it fit to a T. If the toe drag fits, wear it.

However, I like dispersion, although it is really an optical term, the bending of light through a prism disperses the light into separate wavelengths. I saw Leach's piece of light bend through his prism of emotion to create an aspersion. heh

Sorry about that; obviously, I like words a little too much sometimes for my own good, if not my own clarity. Nuance is not always your friend.

by whills on Nov 13, 2007 4:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The one legitimate complaint

Only one thing Tech fans have a legitimate gripe about is holding penalties in general.  No doubt the one on Sergio was correctly called, because it was unbelievably blatant.  Also, those kinds of holding flags are usually thrown before the play is half done, so there's no way to know how it will affect the rest of the play (long play/TD called back, etc). I digress.

But I understand, and pretty much agree with, the Tech fans who find it suspicious that Texas was not flagged for holding once in its 92 plays.  I find that hard to believe, but pretty awesome at the same time.

atsmahboy Kelson

by BigTexBD on Nov 13, 2007 4:29 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

It's not a legitimate complaint...

Until they go back and find a series of unflagged holds on film.

A legitimate suspicion, maybe, but not complaint.  

I say a "series" because you can expect a hold to be missed here and there in any game.  Tech got away with some, too.  If Tech fans want a legitimate gripe about Texas' lack of holding penalties, break down the game and show how they were systematically ignored.

Otherwise it's still based on suspicion alone and not much better than Leach's gripe.

j-

by sterling on Nov 13, 2007 5:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If you can point me to film of the game,

especially of the UT offensive line, I would be happy to sift through it on BON's behalf to see if there is any validity to this claim.

by Red Blooded on Nov 13, 2007 7:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Make sure

You count the holds that were missed for Tech, as well.  I remember a few.

Growing up, I only fed Jared Norton paper. That's why he eats plays.

by Horn Brain on Nov 13, 2007 10:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tech has NO

legitimate complaint.  This link shows they are number 1 in penalty yards for 2007 (if you adjust for number of games they wouldn't be 1, but still up there):

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/sortab...

As far as I know they haven't played Texas every game this year.  Maybe Leach meant to say the refs are against Tech in general, not just when they play Texas.  Hey Mike, just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

Also, Tech had 6 penalties called on them for a total of 68 yards and Texas had 7 penalties called on them for a total of 89 yards.  Someone needs to inform the refs of how biased they are so they can help us out more next time.  Alot of these penalties were personal fouls and I believe 4 were against Texas and 3 were against Tech.

UT has no real rivals, only a couple of teams we deign to care about.

by twalsh on Nov 13, 2007 11:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

52 - 0 (halftime)

The last time a coach used the officiating bias excuse for a hard-fought loss to Texas, he faced a far less competitive game the next year.  Besides the Rose Bowl, that was my favorite game from 2005, in part for VY's quote in the interviews the week before - something to the effect of, "Man, that [Mangino's dismissal of Texas' game-time superiority] made me so mad."

by MorningsideHorns on Nov 13, 2007 7:13 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Big-XII Officiating has .....

...sucked for many years. I'm glad Leach called national attention to the matter. The Big-XII office has ignored the problem for the entire duration of the conference.

Personally, I don't question the assertion that the smaller, less competitive schools have paid the bigger price over the years.

--- All roads to the Big-XII Championships run through OU and the RRS. It's not just "another game." ---

by HornChamps on Nov 13, 2007 8:28 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

You have negative feelings about this?

Who would have guessed?

Announcers say my adopted kid runs a 10.1 in the 300m, and announcers are NEVER wrong.

by Shake on Nov 13, 2007 9:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Shake...

... the continuous stalker at work, yet again. What is that 4 consecutive comments you've stalked? Try something new.....a life maybe.

--- All roads to the Big-XII Championships run through OU and the RRS. It's not just "another game." ---

by HornChamps on Nov 13, 2007 10:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You have to admit.

You are one sour dude.  About everything.  It's tired, really.

by GoHorns on Nov 14, 2007 9:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

maybe he's not sour,

we're all just super positive?

by the other Andrew on Nov 14, 2007 9:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

OK, I'll admit

I have some super bright burnt orange pom poms.  Maybe it is everyone else in the entire Burnt Orange Nation that needs to come back to reality a little bit.  

by GoHorns on Nov 14, 2007 11:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You say "stalked"

I say "called you out for being so freakin' negative with every single post".

Let's just call it a tomato.

Announcers say my adopted kid runs a 10.1 in the 300m, and announcers are NEVER wrong.

by Shake on Nov 14, 2007 9:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What negative...?
I simply point out the truth. While you want to cover-up the fact that Mack Brown is scared to death of a tough OOC schedule, I point out a 20-year history of playing tomato cans. While I'm factual, you refuse to remain objective and try to label it "being positive."
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championships run through OU and the RRS. It's not just "another game." ---

by HornChamps on Nov 15, 2007 5:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I kind of agree....

but Shake, that was damn funny.

"A lot of people look for the easy way to do anything, in swimming there is no easy way." - Eddie Reese

by SwimTexas on Nov 13, 2007 9:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

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