Postgame React: Texas A&M
by Peter Bean on Nov 23, 2007 9:58 PM CST
in Football
67 comments
Before I start: congratulations to Texas A&M. The Aggies were the better football team today and earned the win. They were better prepared. They played better football. No question about that.
The outcome was: Worse For Mack Than For The Fans. When you're the author of a site like this one, writing every single day, usually multiple posts per day, your work is going to run the gamut. Some posts will be crap. Some will just pass along information. Some, you hope, hit the nail on the head.
In thinking about how to preview this football game, two things were clear. First, that Texas A&M was a football team that Texas should beat. Even on the road, even though it's a rivalry game. That was clear to everybody. But second, the more I thought about the game, the more I thought that a loss would be an absolutely devastating one for Mack Brown. That's why I wrote such a long piece setting the stage for the game.
Because it's not so much that the loss today wrecks the 2007 season (which was wrecked with back-to-back losses to open conference play). It's that the five-game winning streak over Iowa State, Baylor, Nebraska, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech was either going to represent a hollow rally or a more encouraging turning of the corner.
And we lost. And we lost painfully. And Texas fans are rightfully pissed off. And when I say that this loss is worse for Mack Brown than it is for the fans, I mean it. We're still gonna go to the Holiday Bowl, which is fine. It should be a fun game, and selfishly, it works out quite nicely for me, as I'll be with my family in southern California anyway.
But for evaluating a head coach, Texas fans rightfully believe there exist only four meaningful prizes: 1) a conference title, 2) a national title, 3) wins over rivals, and 4) a season that shows some sort of big breakthrough for the next year or two. (On Mack Brown's list, 10 wins is a prize. On fans' list, it is not.)
So we close out the 2007 season missing out on a conference title. We're nowhere near a national title. We lost the only three games of the year that mattered (KSU, OU, and A&M). And with the loss to A&M that confirmed all the worries that have dominated fan talk throughout this season, we're not left feeling like there's been any kind of breakthrough. Mack needed to win this game to avoid a lot of heat from this fanbase. He did not, and he will not.
The Offensive MVP was: Jamaal Charles. The kid can play, and we're lucky to have him. At season's end, he's the one game-changing player on the Texas offense, and if you're brave, I dare you to think about how poorly this season might have gone without his heroics. It was a hell of a year for a great player who labored through some trying midseason struggles. When folks like me were wondering if he was going to return to being a great player for Texas, he brought forth his best. I'm a huge, huge fan.
The Defensive MVP was: I can't think of anyone. The closest anyone came to having a great day on defense was Muckelroy, but even he had his breakdowns. This is the worst Texas defense in some time. Sad to say, but true.
The offensive Offensive Player Of The Week was: Colt McCoy. He's had some gutty, great efforts for this team in 2007. But overall, it's just not been a good year. And it was not a good day today. He didn't have a ton of help - not from his line, from his offensive coordinator, nor from his receivers - but he also made too many mistakes that were his own fault. Whether he's had an off year or he's not good enough to lead Texas to something better than this is a question for another day. All we know is that his level of play in 2007 isn't going to be enough for Texas to be a great football team.
The offensive Defensive Player Of The Week was: Duane Akina. Stephen McGee threw the oblong, leather object to receivers for plays that totaled nearly 400 yards. The conservative, one-dimensional, can't-break-a-big-play-to-save-their-lives Aggies took a look at the Duane Akina-led Texas defense and said, "You know what? Even we can do this."
Michael Goodsen? Good bye season slump! Jorvorskie Lane? Feast on some shoulder tackling! Receivers I've never heard of? Have a career game! Also: Stephen McGee. Nearly 400 yards passing. Stephen McGee. Passing. 400 yards.
Ladies and gentlemen: the 2007 Texas defense!
I'm sorry to be such an asshole, but let's call a spade a spade. We've been grousing about personnel and scheme problems from day one of this season. Reckless blitzing. Graduate assistant linebackers getting the starts. Excuses from coaches about why the young, athletic guys can't play. (Seriously, when it's clear to everyone on the planet that this defense needs athletic linebackers out there, don't tell me they aren't quite heady enough to be out there - that's your job to make sure they are.)
When Mack Brown is thinking about what he needs to do to rally this program, he needs to look long and hard at himsef, first and foremost. He needs to ask himself if he's surrounded himself with the people who will help him get the most out of his football teams. He needs to ask himself if he has a staff of comfortable friends who do things he knows, and whether that mentality is good for his goals. Perhaps, if the goal is only to win 10 games, it is. He should not be surprised if we vocally disagree.
John Chiles Watch: Did Not Play. If Colt McCoy were playing so well that the Texas offense needed to be left 'as is' to avoid unnecessary disruption, this wouldn't be an issue. Obviously, that is not the case. Texas struggled offensively in each of the following games (Colt note in parentheses):
ASU (McCoy 220 yards, 2 TD, 2 INT)
TCU (McCoy 2 first half INT)
UCF (McCoy 5.5 yards per attempt)
KSU (McCoy 19-34, 1 TD, 4 INT)
OU (McCoy played well, 324 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT, but 4 sacks)
BU (McCoy 1 TD, 2 INT)
NU (McCoy 180 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT)
OSU (McCoy 1 TD, 3 INT)
A&M (17-32, 229, 1 TD, 1 INT, 1 fumble)
The Longhorns can say they played good offensive football against Rice, Iowa State, and Texas Tech. In nine other games, there were issues. In eight of those games, McCoy was either average or less than average. McCoy played well against Oklahoma, and, at the end, well against Oklahoma State. He was good in the second half against TCU. But that's far, far too many quarters of uninspiring quarterback play.
The only real question is how to apportion the blame. A chunk of it has to go to Greg Davis. Some to Mack Brown. We should note that the absence of Limas Sweed has really, really hurt. But there's also no way of escaping the fact that McCoy hasn't had a good year.
Maybe most frustrating of all, however, is that there's been no attempt whatsoever to use John Chiles to supplement this mediocrity. We're out Limas Sweed, learning how to run the football sans Vince Young, and dealing with real issues on the offensive line. More than that, we're a year removed from a season in which the coaches loudly pronounced that they'd never make the mistake of underutilizing their backup QB again.
And yet, that's exactly what we did once again in 2007. And lest anyone object "But these games were all so tight! We needed to keep our more experienced guy in there to make sure we won!", I humbly remind you of the following:
--We're 9-3, with three losses in the only games that matter.
--We're not going to the Big 12 title game.
--We're not going to a BCS Bowl.
--We've absolutely wasted the freshman season of one of our most exciting offensive recruits.
Not only is it largely irrelevant which Not Big Bowl the Longhorns attend, but there's a damn good possibility that this kid could have helped the offense. Can he pass worth a lick right now? Who cares? Arkansas uses their tailback at QB half the time just because he's such a freaking menace. Especially because this Texas offense lost its explosiveness when Limas Sweed went down, the inability to try to regain some explosiveness by using Chiles creatively remains the biggest disappointment of 2007.
Vondrell McGee Watch: 3 carries, 8 yards. McGee is rightfully behind Charles and will have to wait his turn. I'd still like to see him used on kickoff returns.
Arizona State Fear Factor: 10 out of 10 (5) is the baseline. (+5) for Stephen McGee just threw the football for almost 400 yards. That is not a typo. Whomever we play in our bowl game, odds are they're going to feast on this Texas defense.
Heading into next week I feel: Morbidly Curious. Is this the lowest point in the Mack Brown era? I'd guess that it is. I'm actually kind of curious to see how he handles this. I know the popular opinion is that nothing will change, forever, Amen. And believe me, I know how slow things are to change when Mack thinks things are on track. But this is as far off the rails as the 'Horns have been in some time. At least that's the feeling I've got. I'm curious to see if Mack feels the same way, and curious to see if he makes any indication that change is forthcoming. Mack Brown is a sneakily resilient man, and though I'm as disappointed as anybody right now, I've learned better than to put him six feet under prematurely.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens next. Things are as broken as they've been in Austin in some time, but the cupboard is stacked for 2008 and '09. Will we see any meaningful change before then?
Stay tuned...
--PB--
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PB
hate to be a know it all... but he fumbled twice against A&M.
By the way... I take my hat off to Jamaal Charles... he has a terrible line, a mentally retarded Offensive coordinator, and even had a bad first half of the season, and has really come back and played well. Congratulations young man.
fire Greg Davis and Duane Akina
by Hook'em13 on Nov 23, 2007 10:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Colt Brennan
It was a curse from even before the game when that name was mistakenly uttered for McCoy.
He doesn't have the heart of Applewhite.
He doesn't have the Vince of Vince.
He is barely, Barley, above Simms.
I'm done giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Every time he turns over the ball, a Texas fans' testicle goes to Heaven.
by III on Nov 23, 2007 10:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
another game Mack coached not to lose
If this were a non superhuman game by A&M I think we would have won this one. As it is, Mr. Buyout coached like he had nothing to lose (he truly didn't) and pulled off the victory. Pat Forde wrote him a nice eulogy (u-googly?) on ESPN.com. I am insanely frustrated with this team. IMO a wasted year...
by Crash on Nov 23, 2007 10:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Uh...
"I'm curious to see if Mack feels the same way, and curious to see if he makes any indication that change is forthcoming"
Mack will charmingly inform us that he had a very young QB, a first-year defensive coordinator, a lot of untimely injuries, and that we faced a lot of teams that played their guts out. And besides, we still won 9 games, so what's the big deal?
And the reporters will all look flattered, turn red, begin giggling and say "Okay, you're off the hook, sweet-talker."
And nothing will change. Ever.
Nothing. Ever.
Its like when a politician has scandal after scandal, and each time you think, this has got to be the one that sinks him, oh, he'll totally announce his resignation this time. But instead he simply stays the course, acts as if nothing is wrong, and eventually the public lets it go.
And that's what we'll do, we'll let it go. If the fanbase could stay angry enough about this for long enough, there might be some legitimate pressure on Mack. But we'll all be persuaded to settle down and appreciate the 9 hollow wins against the lesser opponents, and in the end, there won't be any repercussions.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 23, 2007 10:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That wouldn't surprise me
But I'm not sure this isn't the worst the situation has been since the explosion of fan communities on the internet.
- This may be as bad as it's been for Mack, with back to back losses to A&M, and this year's coming in the same year as an OU loss.
- Fans have more of a voice than before. Here, other fan sites, at the Statesman. It's easier to make more noise as fans. And I fully expect the outrage over this loss to continue. This loss sucked. This season sucked.
So I'm genuinely curious if Mack will feel more heat this time around, and I'm genuinely curious if we'll see change that we're not expecting. I don't blame you for being skeptical. I am, too. But I also think this is the worst loss Mack's gonna have to deal with. I don't know that the standard massage-and-move-on approach is gonna cut it.
I guess we'll see.
by Peter Bean on Nov 23, 2007 10:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Two points
I almost wonder if the final score will work in Mack's favor. When it was 38-17, heads were ready to roll; imagine a blow-out loss, not to OU, but to the Aggies. But at 38-30, the loss will begin to sting less and less with each passing hour - even though it was every bit as bad as that 38-17 score indicates.
Second, I'm skeptical of how much our voices really matter. We may call radio shows and bitch on blogs, but Mack doesn't hear any of that. He's surrounded by good-ole-boys and yes-men. Think back to last year, when we were in pretty much the same mood after similar results, wondering what he would say, and the man didn't even hold a press conference. That tactic worked, as people began to forget about it and stopped demanding answers. I expect nothing more this year.
By the way, PB, are you at least enjoying the Hawaii game?
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 23, 2007 11:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am enjoying it indeed
I'm writing up a postgame piece on the hoops team (which looked good) and enjoy this Hawaii game. Anything but think about the debacle in College Station.
by Peter Bean on Nov 23, 2007 11:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you are right
because it has been almost 18 hours and it does not feel any better yet.
I think if we lose the bowl, changes will be made on the defensive side, but if we get a 10 win season, things will happen much along the lines of what you said, but with more lip service to changes that will not be made.
by Wells on Nov 24, 2007 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What is his motivation to change?
This is the single worst season for Mack. He refused to make obvious, necessary, and basic adjustments this year. I mean refused. There isn't anything logical about the defense. He continues to stick with decisions for the sake of sticking. I was a Mackpologist. Defending him against the VY is the only reason he won crowd but man, I am struggling to not see it. How many CC titles has he won over his career? He talks like he graduated form the Robert Tilton school of public speaking. Help. Dodds wont fire him. He is the worst because he is the enough man. Wins enough...recruits well enough....keeps the program clean enough...
:-(
by thanos on Nov 23, 2007 11:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
one more thing
it could be a lot worse:
- We could be aggies
- We could live in college station
- Fran could be our coach
- We could have to deal with candidates turning down our coaching offers, or going after second tier staff...should we make a change of course
- we could be sooners
by Crash on Nov 23, 2007 10:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hello
We lost to Fran and his second tier staff. This is as bad as it gets. I totally believe if A&M had our schedule this year they would be the ones going to the big XII title game. We didn't beat anyone of significance this whole season. If not for wonder boy charles we would be 5 for 5. Something has to give. I pray to the football gods that it is the coaching staff. Recruiting will suffer b/c of this game. Who wants to play for a team that lost to A&M 2 years in a row.
by RemiMagnus on Nov 23, 2007 11:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to rain on your poo poo parade
But this is not as bad as it gets. There was a decade, from 1987 to 1997, that was much worse.
by Wells on Nov 24, 2007 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Amen to that
It could be a lot worse. We could be losing to Baylor 50-7
by SaintBevo on Nov 24, 2007 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would
rather be a Sooner that a fucking Aggie
by Hook'em13 on Nov 23, 2007 10:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Is that like
I would like to die in my sleep and not by drowning?
by thanos on Nov 23, 2007 11:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the rivalry balance
just officially tipped from OU toward A&M with that remark.
I can't imagine anyone saying that in 2004 when we had beat A&M 5 times in a row, but lost to OU just as many times.
But two losses in a row will do that, I guess. Just think, it has been two calendar years since we beat A&M, and it will have been 3 years before we get our next chance.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 23, 2007 11:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mack's quotes aren't up yet.
I didn't see the news with Hawaii/BSt on, nor catch the post-game interview on the radio.
If Mack's gonna dance and spin on this one, he'll have to do it from the very start.
by whills on Nov 23, 2007 11:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
you're in luck
just read any past game quotes or press conferences after a loss. you wont m i s s a t h i n g
Mack Brown, the David Blaine of coach speak.
by thanos on Nov 23, 2007 11:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That was very well said
I really don't have anything to add to that. I agree that we are at probably at the most crucial time in Brown's tenure. He's either going to fight to keep this program relevant or he is going to hide behind the National Championship, allow the mediocrity to continue and take a nice buyout in 3 to 4 years.
by kellen on Nov 23, 2007 11:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Change will come...
It won't be because of internet chat sites or comments to Austin American Statesman or call ins to radio talk shows. It will be because the stark reality is unavoidable that this team has sunk to new lows in Texas Longhorn history on the defensive side of the ball. Sure, the offense was inconsistent tonight and Colt played a mostly lousy game, but this game was lost because the defense played poorly. And this is a trend that goes back to last year and instead of getting better is getting worse. MB has to accept that reality. As far as I can tell, he was never that keen on giving Akina the job to begin with or he would have promoted him when Robinson left. I think Akina is gone and there will be a lot of good coaches available this offseason to find a good replacement who will come in and really shake things up on the defensive side like Robinson did.
MB is a competitor and he wants to win and he has to know that in order to get back to where this team was in 2004 and 2005 the defense has to get back to where it was.
by jwill on Nov 23, 2007 11:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Doubtful
Mack cares more about loyalty than results. I'm not expecting any changes.
by mikey 4 on Nov 24, 2007 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know
that we're all on suicide watch right now, and rightfully so. But at the risk of sounding like a Mack apologist, I think it is unfair to say that Mack doesn't care about results. IMO, Mack is the prototypical CEO coach - he picks the assistants that he thinks are best, trusts them to run their respective units and to make the personnel decisions. He is not a micromanager. We can argue all day about whether or not he should be one, but he's not.
I think the comment in Bohl's article saying that he made the whole coaching staff report to work at 7 AM Sunday after the KSU game speaks volumes about how unhappy he has been with certain aspects of how the team has been managed. Mack is definitely loyal and that does factor into it. But make no mistake, Mack wants to win and I think he'll make changes if he think's they're warranted. Again, we can argue about his judgment but saying he doesn't care is BS.
by SaintBevo on Nov 24, 2007 9:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, but
What does it matter how unhappy Mack is with the results if he doesn't have the balls to make the necessary changes to fix those results? There really are only 2 options here: 1, he doesn't have the balls to make the changes, and 2, he isn't smart/aware enough to recognize that changes need to be made.
by Texas Our Texas on Nov 24, 2007 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or...
maybe he will make some changes. If he doesn't, then we can go crazy. My point was it is crazy to say that he doesn't care about losing. You don't win as many games and come as far in the profession as he has if you don't care about being the best. As you said, if nothing is done and we look the same next year it will be because he's making the wrong calls (for whatever reason) not because he doesn't give a damn.
by SaintBevo on Nov 24, 2007 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pipe Dream for offseason
Disclaimer: I didn't read the 100+ comment long thread on the "Mediocre" post. I apologize if this, or something like this, has already been brought up.
This would be SO out of the ordinary for Mack, but I would like to see him tell the team before spring practice that the starter at EVERY position is up for grabs. With all the young talent (esp. o-line, all of defense), that would be the only way to sort it out. And I want Mack to tell everyone to fight for a starting spot.
But of course, because Mack is Mack, that won't happen. Bobino will be starting, without a doubt, and other positional decisions will be decided by seniority and experience. But nonetheless, that's what I will be dreaming for over the next months (unless nightmares of Rudy Carpenter pervade my dreams leading up to the Holiday Bowl).
by BigTexBD on Nov 24, 2007 1:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
A 9-3 Season sucks ...
... SO BAD. Before Mack, this would have been considered a good season. Oh well ...
by Cyrus on Nov 24, 2007 1:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
the Pat Forde article
about Fran resigning... he said we were grossly overrated, and unfortunately, we should've known. He was right.
The close games to Arkansas St. and UCF.
We've been hating on Kansas by saying that they didn't have to play us or OU. Well here's the reality:
- WE were the team that didn't have to play KU this year.
- WE were the team that didn't have to play Missouri this year.
I'm not sure if A&M could beat us on a neutral field, but we must acknowledge that they had a much harder schedule than ours. If we played their schedule, we might be somewhere around 8-4, and that might be generous given our pathetic defense.
by goingforthecorner on Nov 24, 2007 2:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely nothing (substantively) will change
Great analysis. I think Mack will take the blame for the loss without really understanding what happened or why. He also may shuffle the coaching duties around a little for the sake of doing something, but here is why I don't think anything of note will change:
(1) The NC season was in a great respect a fluke. We had an extraordinary player with trememdous talent and self-motivation who was willing and able to carry the whole team on his back and he had enough of a supporting cast to acheive great things. Mack was smart enough to load up his iPod with rap music, sit back, and let "Vince Young be Vince Young"
(2) Other than that magical year, Mack's teams almsot always lose 2 or 3 games a year, often to inferior opponents (A&M, KS) and inexplicably often at home (Ohio State and A&M last year, KS this year).
(3) I think we can all agree Mack wants to win every game, but doesn't.
(4) Therefore, whatever is broken, or whatever the problems are (poor discipline, lack of motivation, personnel decisions, play-calling, being too conservative, predictability, lack of preparedness, conditioning, etc) he either can't recognize or he can't fix it (or he would have done so. Therefore, we are doomed to continue to have 10-3 or 9-4 seasons until Mack retires.
(5) Finally, to me, fear factor for a bowl: "0" because at this point I don't think it matters to anything except to Mack's resume. For example, winning last year's bowl by a couple of points over hapless Iowa probably had no impact on recruting.
by OBdoc on Nov 24, 2007 9:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Name another team or coach
that 1 - 5 dont apply to.
by Wells on Nov 24, 2007 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So your point is...?
That we should be happy because Mack is as good a coach as any in the country?
by OBdoc on Nov 24, 2007 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No
My point is that these criticisms will be dismissed, because they can be made about any team in the country. Mac should be criticized for his inability to win the Big 12 more that 10% of the time, too much conservatism on offense, and a bad defense. All things that can be fixed.
by Wells on Nov 26, 2007 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
While this may be partially true
At least other teams/coaches produce.
Sure, OU with Stoops looses some games they shouldn't, but how many times have they played for the MNC? How about BCS bowls? Big XII Championship games?
Ohio with Tressel, same questions.
USC and Carrol.
All three are examples of teams/coaches who loose some they shouldn't, but play for (and win) conference titles and BCS games on a very regular basis. Also, they are almost always MNC contenders. No coach can prevent us from ever loosing again, but there are far better examples of maybe loosing a couple, but coming away with something to show for it.
What do we have? 1 conference title (out of only 3 appearances under MB), 1 MNC, 1 BCS bowl, 3 losses to A&M, 6 losses to OU, and 7 Shit Bowl appearances, of which we have lost 3.
You ok with those results? I'm sure as hell not.
by Texas Our Texas on Nov 25, 2007 12:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for saying this
Losses are not necesssarily the issue. Everyone loses eventually. It seems to me like the good coahes are always in contention, whether it's for a MNC or a conference championship.
by WinstonPeril on Nov 25, 2007 9:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That was my point
that critics need to make points that are more specific so they are not as easily dismissed.
by Wells on Nov 26, 2007 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sinking Feeling
I watched the game at my mother-in-law's house. My better half's grandfather was an Aggie cadet and so I sat there on the couch feeling foolish in my 2005 NC burnt orange shirt in the midst of a family of A&M fans. This year's team is an embarassment. The exciting come-from-behind finishes were just a sign of how lousy our defense is/was. Yes, we wasted Chiles, Akina sucks and Mack is soft. And I fear the worst is yet to come...
by bfaut86 on Nov 24, 2007 10:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Nothing will change (follow up)
After shooting from the hip in my above post, I went back through the records to see if I could support my off-the-cuff contention that Mack's teams generally lose 2 or 3 games a year to inferior opponents, often at home. Here are the data (skipping the last 4 years which are still fresh in everyone's minds):
(1) In 2003 while rated #6, we lost in Austin to unrated Ark 28-38. We also lost to then #1 OU and closed out the season with a #5 pre-bowl rating before losing to #15 Wash State 20-28 in the Holiday Bowl.
(2) In 2002 we lost to OU again but were #4 when we were upset by Tech 38-42 in Lubbock.
(3) In 2001, another OU loss but were #3 when we lost to #9 Colorado in the Big 12 Championship game.
(4) In 2000 we were #5 when we lost to unranked Stanford in Austin 24-27. We also lost of OU again and to Oregon in the bowl but weren't ranked above either at the time.
(5) In 1999 we opened the season #17 with a loss at home again to unranked N.Car State 20-23. We were also upset by #24 A&M 16-20 (when we were #7) and #24 Ark when were #14. Also toss in losses to KS (17-35) and Neb (6-22), who were ranked above us when we played them.
(6) In 1998 We lost to UCLA and KS, but these were not upsets. However, we also lost to unranked Tech 35-42 when we were #18.
by OBdoc on Nov 24, 2007 10:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The Stanford game was played in Palo Alto
but yes, I agree with your point. Mack Brown's seasons are uninspired carbon copies of one another.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 24, 2007 11:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Technique
After all is said, the team had the talent, it had the conditioning, but it lacked the technique to win. It wasn't just the unimaginative offensive and defensive schemes we ran. It was the missed tackles, blown coverages, failed blitzes, and lack of containment that killed the defense. On offense we had missed blocks, stupid fumbles, wrong pass routes, and throws into coverage. In short, we had good players playing bad football.
This is not about character or commitment or pride or determination or maturity or any personal qualities. It was about not doing the right thing. Not being prepared to play the game.
Now whose responsibility is that?
by Caradoc on Nov 24, 2007 11:04 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
aTm
Losing rivalry games hurts. But it happens. Let's not make the mistake in thinking its ok or good, but it happens. That's why it' a rivalry. But my little sister said something to me during the game and i have to agree with her. they didn't look like they cared. Losing i can get over because even if its a no name bowl, its a bowl. It could be a hell of a lot worse. BUT... i refuse to be happy with a team that looks like it has less heart than i would if i were on the field. I live in South Carolina and have some good friends who love their Gamecocks..they've lost 5 in a row and i KNOW that they are going to come out with enough heart to a least knock the Clemson Tigers around even if their DEFENSE SUCKS! I CANT STAND WATCHING A TEAM THAT LOOKS LIKE IT DOESN'T CARE. Fire whoever needs to be fired. But if i were in administration, i'd be willing to pay someone just to MOTIVATE these players.
by CarolinaLonghorn23 on Nov 24, 2007 11:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The jig is up, Texas fans
All season long, I rationalized every ugly game from Arkansas State to Kansas State. I found hope in a valiant loss to o.u. I wove a silver-lined storyline for this team that featured Nebraska and Oklahoma State as our belated coming of age and Tech as our re-emergence as a Relevant Team. We were thinking Big XII championship ... we were talking Tempe ... even the national sport gods were forced to include us in sentences again.
But the jig is up. Texas has not been relevant on the national scene since Arkansas State. TCU and Central Florida didn't convince too many, and those hopeful few wandered off after K-State. The Tech game was an illusion, a mirage of what Texas might have been and used to be.
The jig is up. Kansas and Missouri are real. Texas is not. Oklahoma is back. Texas is not. Even a&m .. oh God, don't make me say it. And next year, guess what? We get Kansas. And Missouri. And Arkansas! All on top of our regular menu of Sooner, Aggie and crow.
9-3 puts on pretty face on a season that was anything but. Next year could be ugly, because this team has been unmasked. We've been found out. The jig is up.
by NYCHorn on Nov 24, 2007 11:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
PB, Brooksie
and jwill make excellent points. This is a different and probably worse situation than any other that Mack has been in since his arrival in Austin. That doesn't mean the necessarry changes will be made, just that we can't definitively extrapolate from past failure to make such changes.
jwill is certainly correct that Mack is a competitor and a winner. You don't become a successfull head coach at UNC, much less Texas without being such. However, given the MNC and his age we can only wander if Mack's ambiiton has been satiated (not to mention his financial future assured) and his age could have made him more complacent and less ready for change thatn he would have been 10 or even 4 years ago. I don't doubt that he still wants to win very badly, but I just don't know to what extent he is, at this point in his life and career, willing to make himself uncomfortable to get there.
by duras on Nov 24, 2007 11:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Carl Reese is an example of Mack's "loyalty"
Everyone says that Mack is intensely loyal to his staff and resistant to making changes - however, I don't think Carl Reese's "retirement" was coincidental to the slippage that had occurred with the defense. Reese "retired" and Mack brought in Greg Robinson and Dick Tomey who rejuvenated Texas defense. Here is the story for those who might not remember:
Reese resigns as Texas defensive coordinator
Jan. 6, 2004
SportsLine.com wire reportsAUSTIN, Texas -- Texas defensive coordinator Carl Reese resigned Tuesday following his sixth season and one in which the Longhorns again failed to win the Big 12 or make it to a BCS game.
The defense had been ranked in the top 10 three of the past four years but this season finished at No. 25, allowing 329.9 yards per game.
"I just felt it was in everyone's best interest for me to move on," Reese said. "I think it will be good for Mack to get some fresh blood in here with some new ideas who can help them take it to the next level."
Speculation about Reese's job began following a 65-13 loss to rival Oklahoma in October. Texas ended the season 10-3 and ranked No. 12 after a 28-20 loss to Washington State in the Holiday Bowl.
Reese, 60, had been at Texas since 1997 and said it was "the best job I've ever had."
Coach Mack Brown said he did not anticipate any further staff changes and that a search for Reese's replacement would begin immediately.
I think this "loyalty" stamp comes because Mack sticks with Greg Davis when many fans believe he should have been fired a long time ago. However, I think there is probably more of a kinship there between Mack and Greg than would exist between Mack and any defensive assistant.
by jwill on Nov 24, 2007 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
mack...
...sucks. he never wins anything if vince hadn't come around. he is a pathetic game day coach, and a pathetic motivator. sure he's a really nice guy, but i'm not sure i want my head coach to be a nice guy. sometimes the head coach needs chew some ass out and get pissed off. yes, i'm bitter. i strongly dislike the cult of a&m.
by brentmcd on Nov 24, 2007 11:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Name the assistants
Bruce Chambers. What has he brought to the table. Hired as a minority to recruit Dallas HS's he has moved position duties. A fat cat who brings nothing.
Tollie - wealth of talent. Minimum results. Fat cat.
Oscar Giles - DE play with talent cannot to this day generate sacks or consistent pressure.
McDuff - A bust. A flat out bust.
Akina - But he has coached 2 Thorpe winners. Really? One was on the worst secondary in school history (lasted one year). He must be terminated. Not reassigned. Not given some BS "co" title. Gone.
McWhorter - Hancuffed with the scheme (I guess a scheme) honestly I would like to see him be the OC. Players at GT loved the guy and wanted him as their HC.
Kennedy - keep
Who am I missing
RB coach? Again scheme but I say keep
Texas is a soft, lazy team with no fire and no will. Colt McCoy is not an elite QB. Texas is in a position that they have no one else depth wise to play.
by thirtyand0 on Nov 24, 2007 12:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
stacked?
I'm not sure where people get the idea that we are stacked for next year. What do we do for DT past Roy Miller? Outside of potential what makes you think that we improve with our DBs? Even the young LBs looked lost yesterday. Who is our deep threat at wideout? Probably the two deepest areas, O-line and DE, can only be talked about as potentially good since they have not shown they are consistent dominant groups. This team has been ranked all year more on potential than reality and look where that got us.
by UTeed on Nov 24, 2007 12:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The Day After.
After sleeping on it and I have come to one conclusion. A wiser man than me once said, You can't serve two masters.
Mack has to either appease the University who keeps the lights on at his house and food on his table, while trimming the fat that is his staff.
Or, he will have to remain loyal to his coordinators and seek employment elsewhere.
Is this unfair?
by anonyMoose on Nov 24, 2007 3:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
absolutely not
Mack needs to make a decision as to the team or to his moronic staff. and if he chooses the morons he needs to get out of Austin.
by Hook'em13 on Nov 24, 2007 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
I see shades of the 2003 season in this. I also think the disappointment of losing to WSU in the Holiday Bowl set the tone for the 2004/2005 seasons. Yes, we had Vince too, but I think that if this experience is used right by the coaching staff in the off season, we do have enough talent and speed to make a great run for things next year.
I am upset about yesterday and about the season, however, I am an optimist and this does not feel like the dark days of the Mackovic era or the McWilliams era in Texas football. Those were worse days than this. Back then I was never sure we could win; now I always think we can and its seems at times we just don't do so. Things should change and maybe losing a bowl game convincingly (like the loss to WSU in 2003) might be the best thing for us, but I am NOT rooting for that to happen. One thing I do know... there needs to be NO OFFSEASON DISTRACTIONS WITH ARRESTS. This season started off badly with these things. They need to NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.
As far as the offense goes, another year's worth of maturity for the O-Line and things will get much better. A deep threat to replace Sweed HAS to be found. If the O-Line gets better, McCoy gets better. Much of this year has to do with an unstable pocket, fix that and McCoy will do quite well, and frankly Charles and Vondrell McGee should be monsters next year behind an improved O-Line. Most of the recievers are coming back too. This offense has shown an ability to score well, next year it should be even better.
Something different has to be done with the defense... and I have not said this previously but Akina should be moved back to coaching the DBs (he has done well there) and another "Chizik" type must be found. Tackling and nastiness need to be found as well. Kindle, Norton, and Muckelroy can lead the way here if they will step up to it (and if the coaches will foster that). Even Bobino can contribute, as I think he has improved the last few games. Roy Miller, Orakpo, Lewis, Acho, Houston, and Melton will all be returning on the D-Line, so the front seven should be solid and Palmer, Beasley and Ishie should all be better next year as well. We need a defense that can help us to keep scoring down so that when the offense is not scoring all the time we can still win (if we had held A&M to 4 touchdowns we would have won yesterday). Defense wins championships... we did not have anything close to a "championship" defense in any regard this year.
I am angered by this turn of events and sad that it has happened, but a day's worth of perspective has led me to see things this way. You can agree or disagree, but I hope I am right. Many of you are much more sophisticated fans than I am, as far as your in-depth knowledge of offensive and defensive schemes goes, so have read ALL that has been written and some good things were posted. However I feel that all is not lost to future "seasons of mediocrity" if this is handled right. Time will tell.
One thing I do know... Mack will not be fired. He DOES want to win games, and I can almost guarantee you that he is very upset by this loss too. Something will change and we may not see it immediately, but he will do something. No one succeeds like he has by being stupid.
by HornsFan87 on Nov 24, 2007 6:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunetly
what you say is plausible. There are SO many reasons to sceptical if not pessimistic but hope can, possibly, spring eternal. Note to self: self - do not get carried away.
by duras on Nov 24, 2007 8:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but...
...has this staff shown us anything that might give us a glimmer of home that they will use this situation as fuel for next year? Even next game? Call me captain skeptic, but it ain't happening. We clearly were not motivated at all to Ike Turner an arch rival.
by WinstonPeril on Nov 24, 2007 9:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
No offense, but I think it is time to stop making excuses and defending the current coaching decisions. Mack needs to stay - everyone else needs to go. Hell, our players don't even know how to tackle. That was football 101 since 5th grade football, but for some reason, it doesn't seem to be a priority here. It doesn't matter how fast a defender can get to the ball-carrier if they can't bring him down.
A change also needs to be made at QB. The best player should get the job, not the guy who has been here the longest. Colt is not the best player we have at QB. I don't care how long you give him in the pocket, he still has a noodle for an arm, he telegraphs his passes, and he just doesn't make good decisions. It's time to give someone else a shot.
The sad part is, we have seen nothing that gives us any hope that changes will be made. Sure, Mack wants to win, but if he doesn't see that there are major problems, or if he refuses to fix those problems, he then becomes the problem. Whether it is stupidity, ignorance, or a lack of balls, a failure to make changes means that he suffers from at least one of those.
by Texas Our Texas on Nov 24, 2007 11:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Subtract Vince
It took me a very long time to get on the Mack Brown bandwagon. It took Mack a while to not get consistently outcoached in games. That said, I was thinking yesterday...
"What if Vince Young never existed for Mack?"
I sat and thought a while and thought that I would therefore remember Mack for:
- Winning one less Big XII conference championship than John Mackovic
- Benching The Major for Chris Simms. Whether you were a Simms guy or a Major guy, he kept the circus rolling by continuing the controversy. To my eye, there was no reason to bench the Major except lust over Simms' arm and whatever deal with Satan Mack had.
- How many blowouts at the hands of Oklahoma State? How many losses to Nebraska?
- Perhaps two wins against OU?
Maybe I am too much of a cynic but we're just not as good as we think we are or should be. This team simply has no heart.
On offense, do we NEED to run the zone read? Do we really have that many WRs that are worth having in the game on every play?
On defense,...well don't get me started.
We need to play the best players PERIOD.
Is there any chance Mack is in trouble at this point? I don't know. My first thought is "No way" but the more I think about it...haven't stranger things happened?
by DreadedOne on Nov 24, 2007 8:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Ron Franklin jinx
We should petition ABC to get rid of Franklin. Every game he calls, we struggle no matter the sport. (Just some levity for an otherwise incredibly depressing thread.) By the way, did anyone else cringe when Franklin went on about how friendly this rivalry is?
by pantherchap on Nov 24, 2007 9:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yes...
when he was talking about all the respect we had for each other, I was thinking "I have NO respect for A&M, losing to them is total humiliation."
by SaintBevo on Nov 24, 2007 10:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I esapecially liked...
...when he said that it was a rivalry with respect, and immediately panned to some agro-jerk doing the upside down horns thing. Respect my curvy butt.
by WinstonPeril on Nov 24, 2007 11:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ditto
feel the exact same way. at least the sooners have some class and football tradition. the f-aggies "pride" is cultish military homo-eroticism. mack simply must beat a&m consistently. for recruiting if nothing else.
by brentmcd on Nov 24, 2007 11:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
PB, I don't get how you can consistently
spell Jorvorskie's name correctly, but keep messing up Goodson's last name.
It's Goodson, with an 'o'.
It's like me calling your RB Jamaal Churles.
by Beergut on Nov 24, 2007 11:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
mack's history
one more comment on our illustrious coach before i go silent for another year. i lived in north carolina while mack was at unc. the rap on him even back then was that he could not win the big game and he couldn't win conference championships. he's a great guy who shmoozes well and recruits fantastic athletes who make good pros. he will get you 9 or 10 wins a season, run a clean program, and graduate players. but he will never get over the hump. absolutely nothing has changed! at unc, his obstacle was florida state. at texas, the bugaboo has been oklahoma. again, i repeat -- if mack doesn't have vince young, then we still have no conference (much less national) championships. up until now, i have been willing to cut mack plenty of slack because we had good kids who stayed out of trouble and we beat the damn aggies. but mack seems to have let that get away now. and the recruiting is beginning to slip. adrian peterson, ryan perriloux, emmanuel moody -- just a few names off the top of my head. i know recruiting is an extremely inexact science, but texas keeps letting 5-star guys slip away. and it's getting worse. don't think these guys don't notice who gets playing time. whoever said mack needs to open up every single position to open competition hit it right on the money. blue-chip guys need to be assured the fair opportunity for real playing time. look at usc and florida. that is how it's done. one final comment on the quarterback situation. vince kinda screwed us by leaving early, but who can blame him? we should have perriloux. we should still have snead. we should be playing chiles. major got screwed. mack brown has consistently erred in making decisions regarding the most important position on the field. all the way back to his time at unc when he tried another disastrous 2-headed quarterback plan. mack reminds me of george w. bush -- surrounded by yes-men and staying the course way past any reasonable time for adjustment. he desperately needs to change. fire both coordinators and some assistants. lead or get out of the way.
/end of rant
by brentmcd on Nov 24, 2007 11:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
He'd be better with some piss and vinegar assistants he could turn the offense and defense over to. He could then do all the stuff he does well, like recruit, schmooze, etc. He could really be the C.E.O. coach then.
by WinstonPeril on Nov 25, 2007 9:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Disappointment= Mack Brown & his pathetic staff
Plain and simple, we are TEXAS and as such adhere to a different standard than do most other NCAA football programs. With all of the money that our program has at its disposal, it is inexcusable to produce nothing more than a "good enough" (a.k.a., mediocre) football team. It is especially horrible when forced to face the FACT that "mediocrity" is precisely what our coaches have produced TWO (2) years in a row. As true fans we owe it to ourselves and the players returning next season to DEMAND that changes be made to our coaching staff. As many have suggested time and time again, Mack is NOT "good enough" to be THE University of Texas head football coach. With the exorbitant amount of money and resources that we have at our disposal, we should be contending for a National Championship every season and we should not accept anything less. Sure, everyone is destined to have a poor season every now and then, but once this occurs the number one priority of everyone involved had better be to identify the weak links and make the necessary changes immediately to ensure that it sure as hell doesn't happen again. For years now, Mack has helped to secure his job by recruiting some of the nation's top talent. In retrospect, this fact could be used to help support his demise. What happens to all of this awesome talent that we recruit? Many of these high school STARS have gone largely unnoticed in the NCAA and rightfully so as they have not produced the numbers necessary to earn the respect and notoriety they once had. Why is this the case? Well, all signs point to our coaching staff not doing its job. Mack needs to face the music here. Who cares if you can recruit well when you can't/don't coach the talent that you have recruited! Mark my words, if Vince Young hadn't been the dominant personality that he was and taken on the leadership role that he did, the Longhorns would not have made it to the National Championship game, much less secured the National Title. Vince was much more than a stellar QB worthy of winning the Heisman...it was HE, NOT Mack Brown, that led and for all intense purposes coached our football team to a National Title. Unlike our coaching staff, Vince talked a big game and he played a big game. His passion and do-or-die attitude was contagious and the entire team fed off of it. In addition to serving as the team's primary motivator, there were plenty of times where Vince also served as the offensive coordinator, taking things into his own hands and calling his own plays. It was Vince Young's team that won the National Championship not Mack Browns! Not surprisingly, The University of Texas football program has taken a definite turn for the worse since Vince's departure. This is not to say that we are not capable of winning without Vince Young at QB, but it is to say that we cannot and will not win without effective leadership a.k.a., coaching staff serving at the helm. All this to state the obvious, Mack and friends MUST GO!
by Football Fanatic on Nov 26, 2007 5:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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