Burnt Orange Nation: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: Backing the Pack for NC State Fans!


Parity?

I was going to just write a comment to PB's Morning Coffee today, but it got too long so I decided to write a diary instead.

The question is whether this season was an aberration or some spot on a long path to parity (either the beginning, the end or somewhere in between), especially with how it relates to the ability of smaller schools (in the football tradition sense) compete with bigger schools, not just to win games against each other but also to win championships.

Star-divide

My general feeling is that this season was a little bit of an aberration that hinted at rumblings beneath the surface of the college football facade.  I don't expect seasons like this one to become commonplace, but I do believe that there has been a slight tilt in the balance of power over the last few years, and that tilt has everything to do with the spread offense.

Every defensive coordinator that I've ever heard comment on the matter has said that the spread is the most difficult offensive scheme against which to devise a defensive scheme.  It allows smaller, less "talented" players succeed resoundingly on offensive.  There are a million different variations of the spread, with Texas Tech on one end of the spectrum and a team like West Virginia on the opposite end.  But the basic thrust is: schools with inherent recruiting disadvantages (i.e. smaller athletic budgets, being located in Lubbock or Morgantown, etc.) can still succeed with good coaches who can recruit less talented players who fit their systems well.

This has lead to a lot of parity in regards to individual games.  On any given day, Texas Tech can beat Texas or OU, Kentucky can beat LSU, Illinois can beat Ohio State, and Stanford can beat USC.  Does that mean those teams can compete for a national title?  Very rarely.  Why?  Because there isn't a defensive equivalent to the spread offense.

Innovation in football has largely come on the offensive side of the ball and the reason for that is that offense is much more conducive to "schemes" than defense.  There's only so much you can do on defense.  None other than the great offensive innovator Bill Walsh once said (as quoted in The Blind Side) that defense just comes down to athletes.  In the end, it's mostly about how fast and physical you are.  It's very hard to make up for lesser defensive athletes with scheme than it is to make up for lesser offensive athletes with scheme.

So, while Texas Tech and West Virginia and the other traditionally smaller football schools can make the most of their lesser recruits on offense, their defenses are almost always lacking because they just can't recruit the same level of athletes that schools like Texas, OU, and USC can.  And I'm not sure this is ever going to change.  So while we may have more years like this where the elite teams lose a game or two here and there against "lesser" teams, I don't think you're going to have a fundamental shift in the balance of power towards a meritocracy simply because in the long-run, some recruiting disadvantages just cannot be overcome by scheme.

And beyond this, even the small shift that we've seen in the balance of power isn't sustainable because it's only a matter of time before schools figure out how to stop the spread.  Every offensive innovation meets its defensive match eventually and then teams move on to the next great offensive innovation.  It's a cycle that can never be broken in any meaningful way, for better or for worse.

All comments, FanPosts, and FanShots are the views of the reader-authors who create them.

0 recs | Comment 27 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Re:

Are there really no small schools that have continual defensive schemes that work? This isn't a suspect rhetorical question; I'm really asking.

I suspect the reason I don't know is either A) there really doesn't exist a sustaining, working defensive scheme, or B) defense just isn't sexy enough to talk about. Off the top of my head, I can think of just two defensive schemes that can be deemed "sexy": the Cover 2 (or Tampa 2) and the 46 defense. Meanwhile, offensives are allowed to create the spread, the run-and-shoot, the option, the wishbone, the shotgun, the I-formation, etc. Defensive schemes, meanwhile, are designated by numbers, such as the 4-3, 3-4, nickel, dime, etc. Even the two "sexy" schemes have numbers in them.

So I'm wondering, is the reason we believe that "every offensive innovation meets its defensive match" is because that's how it truly is, or because we don't think of things in terms of defensive scheme first? Can a small school sustain success being innovative at defense first?

My adopted kid is pure genius at the Black-Scholes Option Pricing Model.

by jc25 on Dec 10, 2007 10:54 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Defense can't dictate much

Offenses can do whatever the hell they want within the rules.  Defenses have to react to whatever the offense is doing.  If they don't, they're going to get burned.

Defenses can dictate a little bit, with blitzes and what not, but if you don't have good athletes, blitzes don't make much of a difference.  Think this year with Texas: we blitzed on almost every play but still rarely got any pressure on the QB because our linebackers were terrible at shedding blocks.  

Almost everything you do on defense depends on you having good athletes on that side of the ball.  The cover 2 is interesting because it's definitely an attempt to mitigate that by just putting players in certain zones instead of having them man up, but I certainly haven't seen a positive effect from its use in college.  Maybe in time.

by billyzane on Dec 10, 2007 11:04 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You see at the D1aa level

defensive coordinators scrapping LBs all together and playing 3 corners, 3 safeties with a run stopping LB and smaller faster ends.

Cincinnati does a bit of this and they also put greater emphasis on pass coverage and practice the creation of turnovers. In fact they spend almost an entire practice on turnovers.
Their D coordinator come from the D1aa level.

Like I've said before. The spread is the football equivalent of the 3 point line.

Cats and dogs sleeping together.

by EYESofBEVO on Dec 10, 2007 11:06 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

High school level, too

The number of quality LBs coming of Texas HS has gone down over the last 10 years.

Having big disrupting LBs doesn't make any sense, when what you really need is guys who can cover and swarm.

Cats and dogs sleeping together.

by EYESofBEVO on Dec 10, 2007 11:10 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My take on the spread...

... is that it's so hard to defend because, to defend it properly, you've got to field a defense that basically has trouble with more traditional offensive sets.  The result is like Texas vs USC.  You come upon someone with a real bruiser and a good O-line, and Lindale White is eating cheeseburgers in your secondary 6 yards past the LoS all night.  

Perhaps the answer is that you need basically one and a half defenses.  You run out of a base 3-4 or 4-3 against conventional offenses, then you switch to a super-speedy dime package against Tech and WVU.  Yes, that means the DC has to run basically two defenses, and yes that puts immense pressure on recruiting, but that may be why we don't see it.  Recruiting-wise, it basically requires two extra starting-caliber DB recruits, finding good LB's willing to only play certain games for the most part, and possibly a couple extra DEs to split time with.  Coaching-wise, it requires the coach to spend a ton of time with the defense, but could be inducive to talent development, as you could put younger DBs in as the extra dime players, relegating them to limited, but valuable action as they learn the system.  What do you guys think?  Hire two DCs?

Growing up, I only fed Jared Norton paper. That's why he eats plays.

by Horn Brain on Dec 10, 2007 11:27 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It occurred to me a while ago

that defenses might begin to produce adaptive schemes using different personnel. But the evolution would have to be top-down.  If the NFL were having similar problems stopping offense (which they aren't, probably because of BZ's "superior athletes" theory) then I can easily imagine that, with all that money on the line, that the NFL could easily begin to explore the idea of expanding rosters and implementing different personnel.  You won't hear too many arguments from the players, most of whom are essentially wealthy employees who've already met their [general] lifelong goal, and the player's union would certainly not oppose the creation of 200 new jobs in the NFL.  In such a scenario, the idea of a defensive "starter" would become antiquated.  

But it would have to happen at the professional level first, because the goal of most high school athletes is to make the NFL, and if this phenomenon exists only in college ball, it would hinder the likelihood of a good recruit wanting to come to a uniquely "college style" school.  But if it were commonplace that you could earn millions as a role player in the NFL, then it seems entirely plausible that UT could begin recruiting talent for use in only 4 games per year.  

Carrying out this logic to its full extent, there would first be a difficult growing period before it became evident that the game has changed sufficiently that a change in the rules on scholarship caps, as well as roster caps in the NFL, is now desperately in order.

Really, such an evolution would not be out of place in the course of greater social evolution.  Most industries have moved toward complete specialization (it seems to be our way of creating new jobs for our growing population and, more specifically, our growing middle class).  In all kinds of work places now, you have 3 or 4 people doing what used to be done by 1 person.  

The sports world, being a conduit for tradition, is just a bit slower to catch up.

by BrooklynHorn on Dec 10, 2007 1:12 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gotta have athletes

I tend to agree with BZ.  I think its more likely we'll see upsets more often, but we won't see "small schools" winning championship.  And its all about athletes and depth.

As BZ stated its easier to create mismatches on offense than on defense.  An small school with a handful of athletes can take those guys, put them on offense, spread you out, and take their chances with their athletes winning a one-on-one battle in space, which is the basis of the spread.  If they have the athletes to do this on offense, why can't they do it on defense?  

The answer is depth.  If I'm Kansas and I only have 5-8 truly special athletes I'm going to put them on offense because that gives me the best chance of winning with the big boys.  Cause even if you put them on defense you need athletes all over the field for it to work.  Its much harder to cover a weakness on defense than it is on offense.  So that's why traditional powers like USC, Texas, OU, etc. will consistently contend; cause they can put 11 great athletes on defense to stop the spread while also having enough athletes left over to put up big numbers on offense.  Until the little guys develop some depth, they'll get the occassional upset, but it will be tough to win championships.

'Til Gabriel blows his horn...

by mattyj on Dec 10, 2007 11:10 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Parity, hardly

The top of each conference is (conf champ game participants):

ACC - Boston College and Virgina Tech
Big East - West Virginia and Connecticut
Big Ten  - Ohio State and Illinois
Big 12 - Mizzou and Oklahoma
Pac 10 - USC and ASU
SEC - LSU and Tenn

The Big East could just have easily been BC and VaTech until they bolted.  The only suprise top 25 teams (not seen every couple of years):

South Florida (big east)
Cincinnati (big east)
Illinois (big 10)
Kansas
Mizzou
Hawaii (wac)
Boise State (wac)

The big east sucks so some of the teams records look good.  

The big 10 is always going to have at least 3 in the mix.  

The final records for kansas and mizzou were shocking, but they replaced the normal stable of atm, neb, tech and sometimes osu

Small conferences traditionally get 2 or 3 spots because the big conferences knock each other off.  BYU and Hawaii are this years two with Boise St getting credit for last year.

Yes there were more upsets like app st v mich, but they also include games such as ark beating lsu and fl st beating bc.

Yes some traditional powers suffered, mich, neb, miami and of course nd.

But the usual suckiest schools (duke, baylor) still suck, the middle has just gotten a tiny bit bigger.

To me this year was remarkable in that NO 1 or 2 schools really stood out.  I wouldn't call this a trend.

by ethan on Dec 10, 2007 11:16 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think cable TV

has made a huge difference in recruiting and parity as well.

Starting with 24 hour sports channels, expanding into regional 24 hour sports channels, and now that the regional channels are available all over the country, the expanding national TV coverage is allowing players to become nationally recognized without having to go to a national powerhouse.  

Players who would have signed or stayed on at the NDs and USCs even with a small chance ever getting the starting job 10 to 20 years ago, because that was the only chance of being on national TV and making it to the next level, now can transfer or sign with a smaller school and be the starter and on TV 8 games a year with a lower tier BCS team or even with a non-BCS conference team.

by Wells on Dec 10, 2007 12:59 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This has been my argument for the last

5-10 years.

I tell this to my bro in-law, who is a die hard Domer and can't understand why it is so difficult to rekindle their glory days from the 80's.

Two things; 1) Scholarship limits and 2) Cable television. They are killing the stranglehold big programs have on college football.

When I was a kid we lived out in the middle-of-no-where and could only get rabbit ear reception of NBC and CBS.
I'm sure big time recruits were left with the same impression that I was. Get with the dozen or so programs who are on tv, because the rest are all "junior varsity" and invisible to the NFL.

Kids can go to any school on planet earth and be seen with cable television. Big programs can no longer take a flyer on kids and stock pile depth charts. So the smaller programs have an opportunity to get recruits they couldn't 20 years ago.  

Cats and dogs sleeping together.

by EYESofBEVO on Dec 10, 2007 1:16 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If it's a cycle

Then is there evidence of prior offensive revolutions increasing parity across the board for a short while before the powerhouses rose back to the top?  From my extremely limited memory and knowledge of the history of college football, it seems like previous offensive trends have increased the gap from teams already at the top to the rest of the pack, and then everyone else has caught up again.

All we've heard this year is that this is the craziest season in memory.  Is the spread the first offensive scheme that has boosted a large number of weaker teams (or is it at least the one that has been the most effective?)

I think your theory has a lot of merit, but I wonder still if the spread is different from other offensive trends in the past in its ability to create such a seemingly large amount parity.

by Meekrob on Dec 10, 2007 2:08 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The difference now and then

There are certainly examples of a few smaller football schools using various innovations to leap up and play with teh big boys.  BYU in the 80s (won a MNC in '84), Houston in the late 80s/early 90s, and though a little bit of a stretch, Bill Walsh took the 49ers from crap to a dynasty in the pre-salary cap days of the NFL.  I'm sure there were others that I'm forgetting or that happened way before my life.  And each time, defenses caught up with what they were doing eventually.

But the difference between now and then, was that back in the old days teams could stockpile all the good players they could possibly recruit just to keep them away from other schools.  You can't do that anymore because of scholarship limits and because, as others were saying in this post, cable TV has changed everything.  Great athletes are still going to the best football schools, but good athletes and those that are otherwise not ideal (too short, etc.) aren't going to Texas to ride the pine; they're going to Texas Tech and Missouri and Kansas.

And so yes, it seems that most offensive innovations you hear about from years ago happened at big schools (i.e. the Wishbone at Texas).  No matter how innovative a small school was, it couldn't compete with the big boys because it just couldn't even get the "good" athletes to go up against the "great" ones at Texas because the "good" ones were already at Texas backing up the "great" ones.  Now that they can get the good athletes, smaller football schools are able to take advantage of their offensive innovations.  

But, just as college defenses eventually caught up with the Wishbone and the Run and Shoot, they'll eventually catch up with the Spread as well.  And it's going to be the schools that can recruit the great athletes that are going to be the first to catch up too, meaning that once they do, this little mini-insurrection on the part of mid-level football schools will be over.

by billyzane on Dec 10, 2007 4:04 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Parity - and disparity

Like you, BZ, my comment went long. Was gonna do a diary, but I think we're in the same neighborhood, just different ends of it.

I think Carolina March was exactly right.

Where have we seen this before?

While some of you are still wiping the amniotic fluid from your eyes, there was another event much like this. And on another thread here, but it concerned basketball, the NIT and the NCAA playoffs.

As a refresher, before the NCAA went to a 64-team (now 65 with play-in) bracket, it only hosted a 32-team playoff and that did not include independents, much less the mid-majors. Those wound up going to the NIT, which welcomed highly ranked teams like Notre Dame and Marquette and reserved spots for mid-major champions. And the NIT, set in NYC and famed Madison Square Garden, derived a good TV audience and ratings due to that wide and deep field of talent. That Texas win in 1978 delivered a lot more prestige than it would today.

The attitude embedded in the NCAA at the time was that the big conferences were the best and the talent thinned out over the rest of the field. Essentially, that's what the commenters above are saying and it is generally true. The Hawaii's of the world would go to the NIT because it was implicitly felt they couldn't play with the big boys in the NCAA. But after seeing the continued success of the NIT season-ending tourney, that attitude became more grounded. To consolidate the popularity, the NCAA and the TV venues, the NCAA changed and the end result was March Madness as we know it today, complete with balanced brackets, close analysis of teams and placement and a real attempt to include everyone possible.  

This football season was about speed, about getting more of it on the field all the time, on both sides of the ball. Coaches like speed not only because it can get you quick TDs but also because speed can "make up for mistakes." The truth is there was an abundance of speed and talent being wasted and was flowing downhill to smaller schools. Now with a range of passing offenses, the speed can be utilized all over the field on offense - and has to be matched on defense or disaster can ensue. Which it has this season.

The NFL already has speed everywhere; they are only marginally affected at this point. They will benefit in the long run because of newly revealed talent. Before they scouted like an SOB for those small school players, who have always played a great role in the NFL. This fact has long undercut the big school arrogance.

The implicit NCAA pre-64-team attitude, a certain arrogance of size, still is present in BCS football. Most of the time the big conferences can justify that attitude; the best of the bigs can normally whip the shit out of the smaller schools. And that worked right up to Boise State and OU last bowl season. That broke the water, so to speak. And something else was born. Not necessarily parity, but a sense of hope where there had only been hopelessness before - and increasing fewer dollars.

The BCS greviously, IMHO, discrimates against the mid-majors. Not directly per se but in terms of funneling the football dollar into the big schools, and general respect flows with those dollars.

But what occurred with basketball seems to be happening now: certain talented clubs get left in the cold. And the real football question - who can whip who's ass - seldom gets answered on the field. And there is really no NIT to run to.

The BCS is a function of network control of football, something which has increased over the last two decades, during which the media flipped from being a neutral witness of a college event to a full-time promoter and agent of college events. (Go watch the '69 Tx-Arkansas or Michigan-Michigan State's tie game; it wasn't just production that changed but perspective and control.)

The college presidents, in their ivory tower wisdom, let their control slip away for the big bucks: they have privatized the football playoffs.

Do you ever hear about how much profit the networks make from this? Of course not. The old bowl structure itself was a privatized function for the most part, operating on a for-profit basis with a generous cut to the host conferences and schools. Considering there are 32 bowls with 64 teams this year alone, there is obviously money to still be made. Of course, the bottom quarter changes all the time, but that's true in most any business.

The real question is whether this is entertainment per se or eduction, some hybrid or some mongrel. How much total money is involved, including the networks' cut? What's the real share percentage for universities? How far does that trickle down to all schools and to education? How much does that benefit all collegiate sports programs, men and womens?

The hard truth is that the NCAA football season can not exist without the mid-majors. That they seldom excel enough to make the big time bowls is merely the club used to enforce a neo-plantation type of system. This is probably a billion-dollar enterprise, if not more, fueled by cheap athletes, relatively speaking, and scads of money to the most "important" schools.

That is the dark side which Hawaii represents amid the glitter and hoopla of bowl season. You could strike up the band but they don't even show half times anymore; just updates of the ever present scroll and plenty of commercials. ABC/ESPN/etc. control college football, not the collective universities of the NCAA. And the intent and the missions of the two differing entities are not the same. And the networks are working hard to institutionalize their control with long term contracts. Seeing how the schools graduate the lawyers, I'm sure, if the modern era of lawyers has proven anything, that those contracts can be broken easily.

I used to write a yearly column excoriating the ivory tower set. Why? To register my disgust and their blindness. Sorta. But really, all I want is more and better football. Not an eleventh or twelfth game against some pussy U but some real contests that pit the best against the best. The BCS attempts a financial approximation of that but is so flawed that it seldom hits the mark. 2005 will be considered the heyday.

We need two tournaments. One, about 16 teams, will cover everyone who can probably compete at the top level, some 13.4% of the teams. We need a second, NIT type bowl for mid-majors on down, no more than eight teams. That's 6.7% of the 1-A (nee, don't like new name) schools, right at 20% altogether. March Madness includes 65 of the 341 teams, some 19.06 %, very close. That's the upper standard deviation. And 10 games would be just fine; you'd see less injuries and, I suspect, better scheduling. Those playoffs would involve 22 games with 24 teams; that leaves a lot - 40 teams by this year's count - for various and sundry bowls.

The real key is for money to flow into the whole 1-A division because in the end that would foster much better overall football programs, players and games.  And that's what I want: better football.

Where is the obstruction? In the Ivory Towers and in Bristol and NY, in the network boardrooms. There is an on-going collusion where the rich get richer and in the end we, the ones who really love collegiate football, will all be poorer for it.

by whills on Dec 10, 2007 2:20 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I disagree with your conclusions about the

spread offense, although I agree with you that this isn't a 'watershed' year that shows parity is now here.

It is unusual but not unheard of for college football to have a season where they are lots of upsets of top ranked teams, and a question at the end of the year as to who the best team in the nation is. In 1990, 7 different teams held the spot of the #1 team in the nation, and two teams (Georgia Tech, Colorado) ended up splitting the national title.

Defensive coordinators do know how to stop the spread. Using defensive schemes like the 4-2-5 or the 33 Stack, coordinators have been able to get enough DBs on the field to stop the spread offense. The secret to the spread's sucess has been the fact that most teams are not willing to devote the scholarships needed to develop depth so they will have a stud 4th or 5th CB who can aptly cover the opposing offense's 4th WR or RB in the flats. The bigger schools have this type of depth, though, and their offenses are potent enough to score on the undermanned defenses of the smaller programs, so they can overwhelm them and then blow them out.

There truly is nothing new in football. The idea of spreading the field to run the ball (West Virginia, Northwestern, Oregon, Texas A&M) has been around since the days of Bud Wilkinson and the split-T.
The idea of going with backs and ends split out wide to run and pass the ball has been around since Dutch Meyer ran his own version of the spread at TCU, winning a national title with it.

The only thing that has changed offenses recently is that they're becoming more adept at running the ball from single and two back sets while incorporating a wide open passing game using spread concepts. Because of the proliferation of spread offenses and teams stacked with DBs to stop them, I think the next shify you're going to see is back towards a power running offenses, similar to what Florida is already doing with their spread single wing offensive attack.
A similar shift took place in the '90s, when Nebraska started steamrolling defenses set up to stop the run-n-shoot offenses of the day. Then, when your smaller schools decided they'd also return to run-oriented offenses, and give coaches 4-5 years to develop the offensive line needed to run such an offense, you still had the problems of them not having the talent on defense to keep up with the powerhouse programs. You then had teams like Kentucky turn to the spread, and Bob Stoops bringing it to Oklahoma and winning a national title with it. All of a sudden, these defenses that were laden with run-stuffing linebackers were getting sliced and diced by speedy receivers. Smaller programs like the spread b/c they don't have to wait 4-5 years to develop an offensive line and defense, they just need 6-10 athletes to put at RB and WR, split them out, and try to outscore everyone.
With teams now all going to the spread, we may see a shift back in the other direction, back towards power running offenses, b/c teams won't have the linebackers to stop the run. We'll see.

by Beergut on Dec 11, 2007 1:01 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Valid points, all

My one issue is with this:

Smaller programs like the spread b/c they don't have to wait 4-5 years to develop an offensive line and defense, they just need 6-10 athletes to put at RB and WR, split them out, and try to outscore everyone.

I think smaller programs run the spread because they can't recruit enough good players to fill all the roles on a team, not because they just don't want to wait 4-5 years to develop players.  

We agree that teams run the spread because, at least currently, it allows teams to maximize the offensive potential of their generally sub-par athletes.  You seem to think, however, that given 4-5 years, even smaller programs could develop an offensive line and defense that could compete with the big boys, and I just don't think that's true.

Look at every so-called smaller program over the years that's succeeded beyond its level.  Almost all of them have had terrible defenses, even if a coach has been running the program for many years.  I can only think of 2 schools that have risen from the dead and had good defenses: Kansas State under Bill Snyder and Virginia Tech.  The former is an anomaly because KSU recruited very good athletes from junior colleges around the country who had other problems and whom other schools didn't want to touch. At Virginia Tech, Beamer eventually managed to recruit excellent athletes to Blackburg somehow.  Both of these teams became good on defense because they had great athletes.

So obviously, you can build a good defense at a traditionally smaller program, but my point is that it takes recruiting very good athletes to do it and there just aren't enough good athletes to go around.  Smaller programs run the spread to mitigate that problem on offense, but there's just no equivalent for defenses.

by billyzane on Dec 11, 2007 9:14 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

actually, my point about 4-5 year players

was in relation to developing offensive linemen for a run-oriented offense. With QBs in the shotgun hitting slants a second after they receive a direct snap, you don't need a dominating offensive line to run a pass-oriented offense like the spread, so you ndon't need to wait 4-5 years for your line to be effective. This is one of the reasons it is such an effective offensive attack for the smaller schools.

With regards to defense, I would argue that the spread equivalent for defense is the 33 Stack. It was invented at Oregon State by Rocky Long, Jerry Pettibone, et al. to give them a defense that could compete and make plays despite the fact that they didn't have the ability to recruit 4 and 5 stud defensive linemen needed to run a 4-3 or 46 defense. They only needed 3 capable linemen to run a 3-3-5 or 3-5-3. Today, West F*ckin' Virginia runs the 33 Stack partly b/c they are a small school that isn't able to attract lots of stud DL, and partly b/c very few other teams run it, so along with their unique Dart Option offense, it gives teams headaches preparing for them.

The 33 Stack hasn't had the overall effect that the spread has had in college football, but I think all things being equal, offenses are always going to be slightly ahead of defenses, simply b/c offenses have an inherent advantage in football: they know when the ball is going to be snapped, so they know when the play begins. That split second of time is an inherent advantage that will never disappear for the offense.

I don't think small schools can compete with larger programs for the athletes to make their defenses equal to powerhouse programs, so their best bet is to put their best athletes on offense, and hope to win in a shootout.
Realistically, if you are not a powerhouse program, you always want to put your best players on offense, simply b/c even if you lose, at least you scored some points. No one is impressed if you lose 21-0, but at least you gave them something to talk about in a 49-28 loss. At least you scored and didn't get shutout, so you have something positive to build on. At the very least, you entertained your fans, and that is the name of the game.  

by Beergut on Dec 11, 2007 2:15 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's an easy conclusion

that you know a great deal about the genesis of the various spread offenses - and what was their antidote.

Beergut, how about a reference diary about how they developed into the many modern forms we see today? And any resources that might be out there, too. {I realize that you may, in fact, have done this or have something already written which would do the same thing.}

I agree about running offenses making a return at some point, just because they'd have a tactical advantage and make DCs do much more prep. In fact, A&M and quite possibly NU would be two teams to watch how they exploit this situation. I have a feeling the cornhuskers have a deep longing to be smashing people again.

by whills on Dec 11, 2007 2:55 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll think about doing a historical diary

The problem is, I'm kinda long-winded in talking about topics like this, and tend to get tangential.
There are so many parallels between modern football and what we were doing just a century ago, I'd be costantly delving into research. I'm one of those types who is big on getting as much background info as possible, so it can be time consuming.

If I made it a regular feature, it'd have to be a monthly type deal.  

by Beergut on Dec 13, 2007 10:27 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just wanted to add

that I also would enjoy some well researched historical diaries.

by Wells on Dec 13, 2007 12:57 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks, Beergut

Breaking it down into smaller meaningful chunks will be just fine. Just a general synopsis and some research texts would work, too.  

Hell, if you're gonna research and go long, consider a definitive book if there are none out there right now. Here's what Wiki states and it supports all your conclusions. Note at the bottom there are a dearth of real references, much less a current popular book. There may well be one, I just don't know for sure. But considering how many high school football teams here in Texas and across the nation are running the offense, I see a hell of a market.

However, that might be a little grandiose. I have not doubt that such information could elevate our general conversation here because this is something that will be an essential part of the discussion in the future.

Besides, it could keep you in beer a long time. And as for going tangential - which I seldom do myself, ahem  - a good, tough-assed editor will kick your literate butt back into line.

by whills on Dec 13, 2007 3:43 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I concur (with Whills)

I'd also like to see a thorough genealogy of modern offensive strategy.

Every time you credit a specific individual with the development of an offensive or defensive scheme, I become envious of your historical knowledge. If you wanted to publish a weekly diary that addressed different formations or tactics, and more specifically, how they evolved, you'd have at least one dedicated reader.

by BrooklynHorn on Dec 11, 2007 11:18 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agree with BZ....

...as per my comment in the original thread.  Further, as I also comment above (or below, or to the left, as the case may be) the reason for all of the upsets this year in a result not only of the spread but also a general lack of excellence among the top teams.  Indeed at least two of the 3 biggest upsets this year had nothing to do with the spread.

Stanford was running no such thing and had a first time starter at QB but USC was just too arrogant and had to many injuries to prevail.  Sure JDB had the broken finger and literally threw the game away but the outstanding athletes on USC's defense were unable to shut down tha vastly inferior and unspread (as it were) Stanford O.  In WFV/Pitt it was the decent but not exceedingly talented Pitt D that stopped the very capable WFV spread and limited its opportunities with a very traditional and mundane but in the event effective running game.  WFV simply choked very badly.

Even the apathetic, arrogant, unprepared and legendarily slow Michigan D caught up with the ASU spread in less than a half and essentialy shut it down after that.  It was rather the failure of the Michigan offense, the linchipin of their expected run to the MNC (not expected by me mind, though I certainly expected much better from them) that failed to adequtely dominate the "inferior athletes" of ASU.  

marshalld

by duras on Dec 11, 2007 9:39 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pitt/WFV is a rivalry game

Throw out the record books, stats don't matter in that game. If you look at the history of the Backyard Brawl, wacky things tend to happen in the rivalry.
Pitt was playing good defense fuled by pure hate alone. It didn't hurt their cause that Pat White was knocked out of the game for the vast majority of the contest.

As for Michigan, I don't think they ever really shut down Appy State. That QB for ASU was running circles around the Michigan defense in the second half.

by Beergut on Dec 11, 2007 2:18 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The ASU QB was...

...running aroung a lot but they scored only 6 points in the second half.  The spread explains how ASU score 28 points.  In Ann Arbor.  In one half.  The failure of Michigan to score 35 in the game on the ASU defense tells us something abou the inadquacies of the 2007 wolverines.

You point about rivalry games is well taken and obviously a very touchy subject in these parts given our recent history with aTm.  Even in 2005 the future national champion Horns had serious trouble with the Aggies  and VY of all people had a pedestrian game.  This, of course in spite of the rather less than Rockneyesque motivational skills of Franula.  Even in that game, though, I think the line was considerably less than in WFV/Pitt, WFV had blown out Pitt the previous 2 years, couldn't move the ball even with Pat White in the game and Slaton and Devine had 11 yards rushing each.  All credit to the Panthers but the 'Neers choked very badly and showed themselves to be yet another team in 2007 not deserving championship consideraton.  

marshalld

by duras on Dec 12, 2007 12:12 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I remain of the opinion

that the texas game the last two years is the one game where our players were able to overcome their pathetic coaching.

The word after T+1 this year is that Fran let Koenning call the plays, which is why our offense was so wide open.
I suppose we'll see if that theory has any credence when we play in the bowl game.

I'm well aware of the recent history of the Backyard Brawl. My point is simply that with White gone most of the game, half of the dual threat of their running game was gone, so the defense could focus on stopping Devine and Slaton. They basically dared WVU to have their backup QB run, and it wasn't working.

As for App State, the athleticism of their QB and their spread option attack kept the ball out of Michigan's hands late in the game, when their defense desperately needed a stop to let their offense get back on the field.

by Beergut on Dec 13, 2007 10:20 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hadn't heard that about Koening calling plays.

A few games before T+1, I had called a coach who I knew well that had been on Koening Sr.'s staff in Houston and then ran that offense successfully for many years when he became a head coach.

He said that A) it was Fran's offense (which he didn't particularly like) and B) Koenig Jr. was a OC in name only. Fran called the plays, period. (Yes, there was some resentment implied.)

So, if what you heard was accurate, then that can account for the great shift in the attack. And I would expect that success would carry into the bowl game - perhaps mediated by the hiring of a pro OC. It's an important game for aTm, one which can help recruiting and set up next year.

by whills on Dec 13, 2007 3:59 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Burnt Orange Nation, a blog dedicated to University of Texas athletics. Get BON updates via Twitter.
Start posting about the Longhorns »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Top 10 Games of the Mack Brown Era

Recent FanPosts

Small
Chiles at Reciever?
Me_small
Favorite Wash-outs
Small
Most Underrated Plays in the Mack Brown Era
Small
The Kindle Conundrum
Small
Fiercest Rivalry and Texas preview
Small
NCAA 2010 Player Ratings
Jack_small
Saving Grace
Brandedbevo1024x768_small
Free event with Brown and coaching staff
Brandedbevo1024x768_small
Texas Gridiron Kick-Off

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini

SPONSORS


Site Editors

Pb6_small PB @ BON

Dark_pumpkin_small awiggo

Contributing Authors

Jersey_front_small 54b

Zombie_profilepic_small Horn Brain

Gse_multipart20834_small 40AS

Pigeons_small billyzane

Small whills

Menbooger_small GhostofBigRoy

Brandedbevo1024x768_small dimecoverage

Official Partner of CBS Sports