Charles and Finley file papers to Advisory Board

by MattMiller on Dec 15, 2007 10:58 PM CST Comment 38 comments

http://www.mockingthedraft.com/story...

I commented harshly in the write up there, but what are the feelings of The Nation on these two players entering the draft early and more importantly, the gross negligence in how they were used in Austin?

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Misused?

Really? If youre saying their teammates failed these guys, I can understand that.

However, Jamaal led the conference in rushes, rushing yards, yards per game and TDs for a RB and averaged 6.3 yards per carry.

Jermichael was 2nd in the conference in yards and yards per game (that's top 12 in the nation). Even missing a game, he was top 15 in receptions in the nation for TEs.

Not all of our players can get every touch, every catch and every touchdown of every game. It was especially difficult this year when the QB had trouble getting the ball to them.

by the other Andrew on Dec 15, 2007 11:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

maybe 'failed' isnt the right word, but back to

your question. Sending in papers to an advisory board is different than declaring for the draft, right?

Sounds like from your description that the board is simply to give players an idea where they might get drafted.

I dont see anything wrong with getting all information you can so you can make the most informed decision

by the other Andrew on Dec 16, 2007 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, really

How often was Finley put in the slot or otherwise matched up favorably against a slower linebacker? How often was he sent down field, exploiting cover 2 and 4? After Sweed went down, Finley was the most athletic receiver the team had, and he was not relied on in a way that he could have been.

For a FREE NFL Draft Guide, check out NewEraScouting.com or email nesguide at gmaildotcom.

by MattMiller on Dec 16, 2007 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

a night of drinking and i come home to this

:-(

by abcdmetrius on Dec 16, 2007 12:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Open it up

I read a espn.com story where tOSU filed papers for all players eligible who had even a remote chance of signing in the NFL. Bascially, Tressel didn't want any concerns about declaring or not. So he gave them all the option. He wanted their attention on LSU, not personal concerns.

I thought this was a particularly smart move when I read it. I doubt it will relieve all personal concerns. And it could make no difference at all.

by whills on Dec 16, 2007 2:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

honestly, i'd learn a little more about football

before I start saying the Jermichael Finley was 'misused' in your offense.

Charles probably could have gotten a few more carries in some games, true, but to say that he, too, was 'misused' is ignorant.

You can't keep throwing the ball to someone who is dropping it (A&M game), and you can't keep giving the ball to someone who is having trouble holding onto the ball (multiple games).

by Beergut on Dec 16, 2007 3:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

You're right, as usual.

Hey, is Sherman looking for an OC? You should look into that.

Growing up, I only fed Jared Norton paper. That's why he eats plays.

by Horn Brain on Dec 16, 2007 3:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Finley

that was a fluke game. You want to see the real Finley? See: OU game 2007.

Maybe if we consistently involved him in the offense, he wouldn't be dropping those passes.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 16, 2007 4:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok

I'm going to respond to this without trying to match you insult for insult. See above post. Finley was productive with what was given to him, but again he could have been used differently.

For a FREE NFL Draft Guide, check out NewEraScouting.com or email nesguide at gmaildotcom.

by MattMiller on Dec 16, 2007 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

the problem isn't 'misuse'

texas' offense is set up to exploit mismatches on your X receiver. This past season, your X-receiver was Limas Sweed. Your lack of a true replacement for him after he went down was one of the reasons y'all struggled so much this season.
I think Dan Baker may be the most important recruit in this incoming class for this reason, b/c he may be next in line to take over at the X spot.

The Y position (TE) in texas' offense tries to exploit mismatches and put pressure on the Sam backer. When the SLB blitzes, it is Y's job to pick him up. If Sam stays in the flat, Y runs his route.
If you are facing a defense that blitzes Sam on passing downs a lot, you're not going to see too many passes to your TE, b/c he's staying in to block. That isn't 'misuse' of your TE, that's just keeping your QB from getting killed.

As for Charles, I think he suffered more from playing behind an inexperienced offensive line than anything else.

by Beergut on Dec 18, 2007 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Probably a good thing...

Niether is worth a first or possibly a 2nd round pick at this point and the realization will put their ego's in check.

Jamaal is a talent, but with the success that teams have had with low round or free agent running backs I don't think anyone will take a flyer on him. You can still get great running back talent after the 2nd round for significantly cheaper.

Teams have not had a tremendous amount of success drafting TEs high as well and we typically do not see more than 1 or 2 go in the top two rounds.

More than likely these two are going to come to the conclusion that there is still a tremendous amount of work they need to do to be sure fire #1 or #2 round picks.

So hope that the scouts are honest, and that their evaluations prompt these guys to work harder and push their teammates further...

John Chiles - I'm your foster daddy!

by BMG on Dec 16, 2007 11:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Jamaal To The Toxins?

I'm ok with them declaring. I don't know if I agree that they were 'misused' under the GD (alleged) offense. At least, no more than any other player. In addition, they aren't really developing under this system anyway. Let them play on sundays, and here's to hoping they come back and finish their degrees.

The local hometown losers are in dire need of a tailback, it'd be nice to a horn in the backfield doing good things. Without the fumbles. :)

by littlerearl on Dec 16, 2007 12:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

not sure if you've noticed

but the Texans days of being irrelevant are over. But it's still true they are in dire need of a tailback. They'd need a tough one before a speedster to deal with the defenses of the AFC South.

atsmahboy Kelson

by BigTexBD on Dec 16, 2007 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Amen

I love my boy, and I love the Texans....but the 2 may not be the best match for each other.

My kid may have given up a costly fumble against OU, but at least he's never been accused of face raping.

by Shake on Dec 18, 2007 9:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

As a Texans' fan,

I might consider drafting Charles, but I don't know about for the 1st pick. Those fumbles early really bother me. If he's really over them, then I don't see why we wouldn't consider him.

Right now our RBs are the Ron Dayne train and Darius Walker, but both are performing decently as of late.

IMO, I'd still rather draft a good offensive linemen or a corner if Dunta Robinson is indeed out for all of next season :(

by goingforthecorner on Dec 16, 2007 6:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Misused is accurate

Jamaal Charles' Carries-Yardage:

Ark.State 27-112
TCU 22-134
UCF 22-153
Rice 14- 72
KansasSt 17- 72
OU 17- 79
IowaSt 7- 44
Baylor 16- 56
Nebraska 33-290
OklaSt 16-180
TexasTech 23-174
A&M 17- 92

In the first 6 games of the season, this young man had 119 carries for 622 yards and an avg./carry of 5.23.

In the second half of the season, Jamaal Charles had 112 carries for 836 yards and an avg./carry of 7.46.

Just a 43% improvement. Misused seems accurate.

--- Peter's tired of disabling threads due to the wise-A comments from Wells & BZ, so hopefully they'll refrain from commenting ---

by HornChamps on Dec 16, 2007 1:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Thank you!

I'm a huge Charles fan, hell read the scouting report I did for PB on him, but the "mis-use" of him against KState, OU and Iowa State really hurt the team's chemistry on offense and put the ball into Colt McCoy's hands too often without the threat of a run game.

For a FREE NFL Draft Guide, check out NewEraScouting.com or email nesguide at gmaildotcom.

by MattMiller on Dec 16, 2007 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

iowa st?

youre complaining about the offense chemistry of that game? Colt was almost 80% in that game and threw for 300 yards and 4 TDs. I understand someone like yourself who's trying to scout a single player might see 7 rushes for 44 yards a poor performance, but there were very few complaints that day. And if there were "team chemistry" shouldnt be anywhere on there.

We had a good gameplan against OU, but Jamaal "mis-used" the ball a couple of times.

by the other Andrew on Dec 16, 2007 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ISU

Colt did have a great game against ISU, but your workhorse back needs more than 7 carries. A win is a win, either way, but the passing game was carrying the team at that point. Jamaal is considered by most to be the best back in the Big 12, right? That back should get more than 7 carries, no matter the fumbling concerns. He needed to work through that, not have his confidence rattled by a benching.

For a FREE NFL Draft Guide, check out NewEraScouting.com or email nesguide at gmaildotcom.

by MattMiller on Dec 16, 2007 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps

Or it means that Charles played better the second half of the season. He actually got fewer carries, he just did more with those carries. I don't know why you would assume that it is the offenses fault that he didn't do more with the carries earlier. I think the difference has more to do with some crazy late runs against Nebraska and OSU.

by Texas Wahoo on Dec 16, 2007 3:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

what are the rankings

for run defense for Nebraska, Oklahoma State, Tech, and A&M?

by Beergut on Dec 18, 2007 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe to clarify

When looking at these two players as freshman, most of us considered them to be the kind of player you build around and sure fire All Americans. Have either player led Texas to a Big 12 Championship? Has either player been built around in an offense that needs a spark?

I'm not blaming the players here, maybe that's what the people here are used to, but when Charles and Finley are in the NFL in two years, are we going to feel like Texas capitalized to the fullest on their potential?

For a FREE NFL Draft Guide, check out NewEraScouting.com or email nesguide at gmaildotcom.

by MattMiller on Dec 16, 2007 3:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Colt

Put Colt on the list of players that during their freshman year looked like sure fire All Americans that you would build your offense around. Maybe Colt has been misused.

by Texas Wahoo on Dec 16, 2007 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't it?

How is the offense not built around McCoy?

For a FREE NFL Draft Guide, check out NewEraScouting.com or email nesguide at gmaildotcom.

by MattMiller on Dec 16, 2007 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it somewhat is...

But I also think it's built around Charles. That's my point. It's not like we go out there and throw it all of the time. We run it quite a bit with JC, largely out of the shotgun, which I think the coaches think both are more comfortable with.

by Texas Wahoo on Dec 16, 2007 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

oh man

that response is a slow softball pitch for one of our posters.

I can see where you're coming from and I'll leave it at that.

by the other Andrew on Dec 16, 2007 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You want mis-used?

Two words: John Chiles.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 16, 2007 6:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

that I can agree with

that's the perfect definition of misused for this year.

by the other Andrew on Dec 16, 2007 7:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Amen

Everyone will agree with that. Ad Norton, Muck and Kindle to my list.

For a FREE NFL Draft Guide, check out NewEraScouting.com or email nesguide at gmaildotcom.

by MattMiller on Dec 16, 2007 8:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hell yeah add them

I wonder what conversations between these three were like. If every fan and beatwriter notices their superiority to the starters, how the hell do they feel right now, or better yet, how did they feel during defensive meetings, or LB meetings?

Norton, Muck, and Kindle got their allocation of snaps each game and outplayed the starters repeatedly. Then the whole LB crew, starters and stars, would gather to watch game tape and the room was probably silent during the clips, over and over, of Derry showing up just after the play finished, or Kill muffing up another open field tackle, or Bobino getting swallowed as the RB zips past. They sat there watching gametape as the young guns blew up plays, made tackles behind the line of scrimmage and showed every person watching that they should be getting the majority of the snaps.

They got screwed this year, and they know it. If Kindle decides to enter the draft after next season, I'll support him. What the hell is the criteria for winning a starting job? I'm sure Sergio has asked himself this question a few times this year.

I agree with the OP that Charles and Finely were underutilized. Commenters are correct to add Chiles, the LBs and others to the list. It's not just a problem with the 2007 season. Recruits will notice this crap because opposing coaches will point it out. Some of Mack's personal qualities have infected his coaching. The critique of the Mack as CEO label elucidates this point beautifully.

In closing of this rant, I want to get excited about the Holiday Bowl, but thinking about all this makes it tough. I'm crossing my fingers that the young LBs will get more PT than KBD and that GD finally adjusts during the game. I want a win, and I think it'll take the coaches putting their loyalty -- to mediocre players and gameplans -- on the backburner.

by Kool Hand on Dec 16, 2007 11:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Misused or Not, Both Could be Gone

Read some speculation on another message board that both could be gone. Finley has been in program for three years and has a child(ren) already. He may not be totally ready but I, for one, could see definite reasons for him jumping.

--AW--

by awiggo on Dec 16, 2007 7:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Something about their body language

More so with Charles.

Don't have insider information, but I've been saying for a while now that I thought Charles would leave.
He just never seemed completely comfortable in his role at Texas.

Cats and dogs sleeping together.

by EYESofBEVO on Dec 16, 2007 9:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i think part of the reason finley wasnt used

was because he had to stay and block alot, with an inexpiernced offensive line finley had to help protect the QB

by blazzinken on Dec 16, 2007 9:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Latest word from the Statesman...

Not that anything is ever definitive, but coach Mack reiterated that all underclassman have informed him of their return for their senior season. Significant points mentioned in the article:

"Brown said that any underclassmen with pro aspirations are encouraged to ask for a draft evaluation from a special NFL committee.

'We always try to help our guys get as much information as possible when it comes to the NFL,' Brown said in a statement issued to the local media. 'We encourage and help them go through the process'.

'All of our underclassmen have told us they will be coming back, but if you’re playing well enough to be considered an NFL prospect, going through the process can only help you better understand it, and realize what you need to work on to improve your status. We will always support any of our guys in that effort.'

A team official said Sunday that almost all previous underclassmen under Brown have asked an NFL committee for an early evaluation."

by ArcticLonghorn on Dec 17, 2007 6:52 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ketchum....

Last evening, Ketchum was on Jeff Ward's show. He (like I have)is hearing from numerous sources that Jamaal Charles is likely to take the NFL route. Contrary to Mack's repeated claim that all juniors are returning, Jamaal is considering the jump. His own brother (at SMU) was considered NFL talent and suffered a career-ending injury. Everyone is telling him he has been mis-used by GD GD and Ketch feels his chances of returning are 50/50........, at best.

--- Peter's tired of disabling threads due to the wise-A comments from Wells & BZ, so hopefully they'll refrain from commenting ---

by HornChamps on Dec 18, 2007 5:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

He hasn't been happy

since his freshman year.

IMO, Charles is emotionally immature and his own self perception exceeds his performance on the field.

He probably thinks the NFL will somehow be the answer his self pity, but if he isn't tough enough at the college level......

Cats and dogs sleeping together.

by EYESofBEVO on Dec 19, 2007 8:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

wasn't there a DMN article

about Jamaal and Shonderrick(?) Charles, and how their dream was to play in the NFL and take care of their family?
With Shon no longer able to play, that dream is Jamaal's to fulfill. If that's the situation, you can't blame him for going pro. He has to take care of his family.

Would that give you a RB rotation of Vondrell McGee and Foswhit Whitaker next season?

by Beergut on Dec 19, 2007 9:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs