Why not Kansas?
by 40AS on Dec 2, 2007 9:10 AM CST
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PrintWhy the hell not? All things being equal it's obvious that they don't match up, but they only have one loss. No two-loss team deserves it, ever, especially over a one-loss team.
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Why Not Hawaii?
I understand for not letting an undefeated Hawaii play to a one loss "BCS" conference team, but not a two loss team. Hawaii did everything they could to play for a national championship, even trying to play with the big boys, except the big boys didn't want to play Hawaii i.e. Michigan. In a year where there isn't two clear top teams, or even four, this is the year for Hawaii to have a chance, I mean why not?
Hawaii
I agree 100%. Especially in this year, they should get a chance.
Because...
...they didn't win their own division, let alone their own conference. They lost to the only above average team they played. Sorry, I don' think the Jayhawks have much of an argument.
They tied for their division technically
It's only because the Big XII doesn't do it like the Big Ten that it's not counted as winning the conference. If the Big XII did it like the Big Ten, Mizzou and Kansas would have tied for the conference title and last night's game wouldn't have been played.
That's BS
They had a better conference record than every BCS team in the country except for Mizzou and Va Tech. Their only loss is to a top ten team by eight points at a neutral field, and they beat the crap out of their opposition.
Once you lose two games you have no right to argue that you "deserve" to be in the title game, so if we're going to pick between BCS conference teams (leaving out Hawaii getting in, which I don't agree with), then KU has a better resume than anybody.
i agree...
why not kansas OR hawaii.
I agree with TarHorn. Undefeated Hawaii should get atleast equal credit against 2-loss BCS conference teams.
Kansas should get the same treatment as tOSU. 1-loss team in a BCS conference. I think Kansas is getting screwed because they're looked at as a mid-major. Kind of how Vandy would be if they went 11-1.
But if you don't put UH or KU in at #2, the title game should be tOSU v UGA. That's just my take. And I have no problem with a team who doesn't win or even play in their conference title game playing for the national title.
by bleed burnt orange on Dec 2, 2007 11:41 AM CST reply actions
I am on board
with everything you just said.
I don't know how anyone could justify a two loss team over a one loss Kansas. If LSU jumps over every team with their win over Tennessee yesterday, I think I might vomit. Everyone in the media is just dying to give them the championship and they have been since USC started losing. They have squeeked by or lost almost all their important games this year.
Anyway you look at, there are going to be a lot of pissed off people. If they don't rethink the BCS after this year, they never will...
exactly!
LSU was this close (holds index finger next to thumb) to being a 4 or 5 loss team. We all watched them because they were always televised and they were just plain lucky.
Having said that, get your barf bag ready, 'cause they're probably going to win it all.
Rolodex MNC
I don't think anybody should even consider this a NC game--no one clearly 'deserves' a shot at a national title, but I suppose we could say the same in any non-playoff system. I think the game will ultimately be whatever 'sexy' matchup voters may want to see. Eight or nine teams have a legit claim to play in the game. I will vomit, however, if ou gets that chance. This year, it seems best to spin a rolodex to select teams.
Voters don't believe in Kansas
There is no possible schedule combination that Vanderbilt could have without getting a chance to prove they're a legit team, they're in the SEC.
tOSU got their loss before the last game of the year, we've all seen what happens when a team loses the last game of the year and then still goes to the national championship. If they lose early, and then win out, people have the belief that the team has gotten better and would probably not lose to that team again. If they lose their last game, there is no room for such belief (i.e. Texas)
tOSU also played #2, #3, #4, and #5 in their conference and came out with one loss. The three teams Kansas played in the Big 12 South are the three teams at the bottom of the division. They didn't played Oklahoma, Texas, or Texas Tech. The general assumption (which is correct in my opinion) by voters is if they couldn't even beat Missouri, their record would be much much worse if they played Oklahoma (killed Missouri twice), Texas (played at Oklahoma's level), and Tech (beat Oklahoma). tOSU's situation is much much different because of this.
That said, you're all right in that Hawaii has gone undefeated in a season of complete chaos and one in which we're looking for national championship teams in the 2-loss pool. If there is a year for it to happen, this is probably it.
BUT, have any of you actually watched Hawaii's games this season? You can't just blindly look at the record and say they deserve it. They have more luck than LSU this year, and that's saying alot. There are multiple multiple games they have been down by alot late in the game and the other team more or less gives it to them. And these other teams are not Big 12, SEC, or Pac-10 opponents. These other teams are from the WAC.
Last night was a great example, playing against Washington. Let me repeat that. Washington. In case you're wondering they are dead last in the Pac-10 this year. This is like us struggling against Baylor (oh wait that did happen) or Iowa State. Washington basically quit in the second half until the last 40 seconds. Everyone has bad games, but if you've been watching, this isn't nearly the first time.
Overtime win against La Tech in which La Tech went for 2 in the first overtime but failed.
Overtime win against San Jose State.
Literally last second win against Nevada.
Last second win against Boise State.
Last second win against Washington.
Fresno State was pretty close too.
Call me crazy, but I believe any national championship contender from the WAC gets 1, maybe 2 crazy lucky win passes. After that, fine, give them a BCS bowl but they sure as hell don't deserve the national title.
My take...
Kansas has roughly the same resume as tOSU, except tOSU's loss was worse. tOSU's schedule wasn't any tougher. Who did they play OOC? Akron? Wazzu? Don't even start on their conference schedule.
The big problem here is that the best teams have not been consistent enough this year to be able to claim a shot at the title. Georgia, LSU, USC (pains me to say it), OU (again, I cringe), and now Mizzou have all lost two games. Are these teams better than the one-loss guys (and Hawaii)? tOSU, Kansas, and Hawaii are your only choices for a "traditional" matchup between two teams that have less than two losses.
Compound this with the fact that no one wants to let someone who didn't win their conference into the NC game, and you're down to LSU, USC, OU, tOSU, and Hawaii. Let's ignore this idea for a second, because I don't think it makes much sense when you're arguing for a playoff that would include non-conference winners anyway.
The one-loss and undefeated teams played what amount to mid-major schedules, but Hawaii played a lower-mid-major schedule. This is sufficient for me to consider all of these teams as tied with the two-loss teams, and the only feasible way to break that tie is by looking at their win quality. Kansas and Hawaii are out, since they didn't win a single game over an above-average team. The rest look like this:
Sorry, KU is in tier 1. I F-ed up
Sad to see, but LSU really has beaten the best teams. Florida is really almost in Tier 1, and Tenn and Auburn are roughly the same. So, LSU is #1... again... Who is #2?
tOSU is out, they suck. Yay. Mizzou and OU look tied, except that OU beat Mizzou two times. Mizzou, out. USC really didn't beat anybody but ASU. USC, out.
It's then down to OU and UGA. OU beat a really good Mizzou team two times, and one time they beat them with an f-ing hammer. Georgia beat Florida with a hammer, which is impressive as hell. Georgia beat Auburn, OU beat Texas. From those two, it looks like OU's two top wins are better than Georgia's beating of UF, but Georgia beat Auburn solidly, while OU had a hell of a tough time with wimpy, lame, disappointing Texas.
Look, then, at the losses. OU lost to CU (inexcusable) and TTU (Concussed QB). UGA lost to USC-lite (this is still better than CU) and Tennessee (Tennessee is actually pretty good). On that merit, I say that we have SEC championship game II for the NC.
Is this really so bad? If Tenn hadn't blocked a kick in OT against Kentucky, you would have all been fine with Georgia in the title game. AP poll just came out, though, and it looks like they listened to Herbie and they want tOSU to play LSU. Forget what I have to say. I hate this mess.
I agree
LSU, OU, and Georgia are the 3 that should be looked at in my opinion, with tradition giving a nod to LSU vs. OU (conference champions)
It should be OU v. LSU
Let the champions from the two best conferences duke it out. OU just beat the #1 team in the country, I mean dominated them.
Has Ohio State beat a single team that is currently rankled in the Top 25?
You're all wrong
OU has no business in the championship game. Yea, yea so Bradford was out against Tech. Hello......they have two losses and that second loss came to a 6 & 6 team - Colorado and guess what? Bradford DID play in that game.
KU has no business in a BCS game against Georgia either. They did not even beat one team in the top 25. And you know that category "others receiving votes" ? KU did not beat one of those teams either.
Missouri piss-pounded KU. Missouri finished with a higher BCS ranking/score. Missouri should be the one playing Georgia.
I hope Georgia beats the shit out of KU and I think they probably will. The fighting Manginos are a joke.
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