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Around SBN: Ellenberger vs. Sanchez Heats Up, Hughes Talks Retirement

Texas at Michigan State Open Thread

#4 Texas at #9 Michigan State
The Palace * Detroit, MI
Tip: 5:30 PM  /  TV: ESPN2

Longhorns travel to Detroit for a (functional) road game against Michigan State. Tip time is 5:30 pm. Television is ESPN2. The Longhorns have handled two elite teams already this season, and it's a lot to hope for the team to take down yet another, especially outside The Drum. I've tempered my expectations, but look forward to a fun game against a great opponent who will give Texas yet another test that will help come tournament time.

**One other thing before we tip here: watch closely to see how Michigan State adjusts to Texas' speed. I think one thing that's helped Texas a lot this year is that teams are surprised by how fast/quick we are. We're really fast, and both Tennessee and UCLA weren't ready for it. It's one thing to talk about it and see it on tape, but it's another to play against it. Michigan State will have a much better chance to win today if it opens the game better prepared for our speed than others have been.

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Anything but OT in the Stanford/Tech game!

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 5:24 PM CST reply actions  

Stanford wins

So the PAC-10 wins the Big 12/Pac 10 Hardwood Classic series 7-5.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 5:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Mich St off. rebounding

They get an offensive rebound every two possessions? That is absurd. James, Connor, Mason, Wingman, Chaps all need to step up on the boards.

Every defensive rebound we get is huge, because the Spartans like to crash the boards, meaning we can RUN and get easy baskets.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 5:29 PM CST reply actions  

Great first possessions

On both defense and offense

--PB--

by Peter Bean on Dec 22, 2007 5:38 PM CST reply actions  

Walton gets 2nd foul

big break for us, he was guarding DJ.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 5:42 PM CST reply actions  

2 straight turnovers

Connor and Mason not taking care of the ball.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 5:43 PM CST reply actions  

MSU's pace

They've got this game at their pace so far. This group of Longhorns hasn't played very well when they've been muscled on the perimeter, which is what we're seeing right now. Not a good sign.

--PB--

by Peter Bean on Dec 22, 2007 5:45 PM CST reply actions  

Good news

Outrebounding them by 3.

Bad news: uncharacteristic turnovers.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 5:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Mason looks bad...

...on the offensive end right now.

I like that Barnes is trying to force some of the offense to run through him, but he doesn't look comfortable shooting (or even getting in position to shoot) right now...

Hope I'm wrong...

by txtwstr7 on Dec 22, 2007 5:47 PM CST reply actions  

Abrams bricks again

He's GOT to get that stroke back.

--PB--

by Peter Bean on Dec 22, 2007 5:47 PM CST reply actions  

They're playing great D on Connor

he's not surprising anyone. Everyone knows who he is.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 5:49 PM CST reply actions  

Abrams for three!

Connor with the block before.

Mich St. get the offensive rebound and hits a three.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 5:52 PM CST reply actions  

Gotta say...

...they are getting the better looks right now.  The point about them being prepared for our speed seems prophetic...

Too fast a pace for Dex, but this is the game where not having Gary Johnson could finally prove devastating...

by txtwstr7 on Dec 22, 2007 5:54 PM CST reply actions  

James a monster on the boards

5 pts and 5 rebs.

So far, we're outrebounding them by 4. Mich St. in some foul trouble.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 5:55 PM CST reply actions  

Suton killing us with offensive rebounds

He has 2 offensive rebs, and it's given them 5 pts.

Lewis for three!?

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 5:56 PM CST reply actions  

It's the DJs show

James and Augustin are carrying us. AJ is struggling with his shot. Mason and Connor are almost no-shows so far.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 6:06 PM CST reply actions  

Bad vibes here...

...we're going to have to make some serious half-time adjustments, even though we've been leading the entire game.

One of Mason/Atchley is going to have to step up offensively today...

by txtwstr7 on Dec 22, 2007 6:08 PM CST reply actions  

Dexy's in the game!

I thought they were too fast for him to play, but he's in there.

Then again, we put freakin JD Lewis in the game.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 6:09 PM CST reply actions  

Spartans on 14-2 run

this is gettin ugly. Bad defense, and they're running with us, and we can't stop them.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 6:11 PM CST reply actions  

Gross

Abrams playing terribly. With two fouls on DJ, not sure what we're gonna do on offense.

Big trouble.

--PB--

by Peter Bean on Dec 22, 2007 6:11 PM CST reply actions  

You're seeing the depth advantage

Mich St. gets in early foul trouble, so the bench guys step right up like they lost nothing.

Our bench guys? Well a whole lot of nothing so far, and the same for a couple of our starters.

WE NEED GJ.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 6:14 PM CST reply actions  

also the height advantage

their set plays are just better than ours.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 6:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah. Ugly shots, lost RBs.

W/out DJ Horns can't seem to get ball inside; all their shots are outside. We'll see what Rick has for that.

by whills on Dec 22, 2007 6:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Two players short...

...and they're both hurt right now.

This would have been a nice game for Gary Johnson, Dogus Balbay, and even Matt Hill...

I admire Rick for trying Dexter for an extended period here, but we're going to have to go back to Chapman or Wangmene...Dex isn't adding anything offensively and has been exposed a few times on defense.

by txtwstr7 on Dec 22, 2007 6:17 PM CST reply actions  

Our offense is garbage now

We're nothing without DJ.

And they're getting layups. Horrible.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 6:20 PM CST reply actions  

ugh

:(

In Mack We Trust.

by Cyrus on Dec 22, 2007 6:23 PM CST reply actions  

Defense

Obviously, there are problems on offense without DJ, but we're playing awful defense; that's the real disappointment.

--PB--

by Peter Bean on Dec 22, 2007 6:25 PM CST reply actions  

If DJ can stay in the game

I still think we can comeback and make it a real close game. But this defense is atrocious, and unfortunately it won't be addressed until we get Johnson.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 6:27 PM CST reply actions  

Nightmares manifested...

...this was what I've been afraid of the entire season.

Abrams can't shake loose from the harderbetterfasterstronger defender guarding him, Atchley is covered up, James and Mason are offensively limited, no post presence, and DJ is having an off-night...

Really interesting to see what Rick comes up with out of the break...

by txtwstr7 on Dec 22, 2007 6:28 PM CST reply actions  

Barnes halftime adjustments

We need more movement on offense. The set plays have been non-existent.

Connor has ZERO shots attempted! We have to get him open from off the ball movement. Spartans have locked on to him.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 6:29 PM CST reply actions  

Not sure about that

Connor's been thriving because teams have left him alone; it's not like we can just start creating looks for him. He'll get looks if DJ starts breaking down their defense with penetration. So far, he hasn't succeeded at that.

--PB--

by Peter Bean on Dec 22, 2007 6:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Spartans aren't leaving him open though

no matter what DJ does. Izzo did a great job recognizing what Connor can do, so he's basically sent a guy to shadow him down. I don't think I've seen Connor even get open at all today.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 6:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Morgan has three fouls

Whoever he's guarding needs to get more involved in the offense. They are far superior to us in depth and size, so we need to send them to the bench.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 6:30 PM CST reply actions  

low bball IQ question here

Is there some sort of fundamental change in the way teams have been defending Texas recently, or have the Horns changed on offense?  It seems like they're getting fewer good looks and James isn't nearly the presence he was in the first six or seven games.  Can someone enlighten me?

by Kool Hand on Dec 22, 2007 6:33 PM CST reply actions  

We're playing a real good team

and a good defensive team that's limiting our options.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 6:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Physical guards

This Texas team is really, really vulnerable to athletic, physical guards. This is a replay of the USC game.

--PB--

by Peter Bean on Dec 22, 2007 6:42 PM CST up reply actions  

The worst part...

...is that we can't even turn this into a jump-shooting contest b/c Mason can't shoot and Abrams can't shake loose.  And we all know we can't get the ball inside without DJ penetrating...

The best chance is going to come from getting turnovers on the defensive end and scoring in transition...

by txtwstr7 on Dec 22, 2007 6:36 PM CST reply actions  

haha

I swear to god, I was going to change it in a second.

In Mack We Trust.

by Cyrus on Dec 22, 2007 6:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Suton has been the difference so far

4-5 shooting and 3 offensive rebounds.

Their freshman guard off the bench Lucas is lighting our guards up. 11 points, already 4 above his average.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 6:39 PM CST reply actions  

Walton was wide open...

but good rebound by the Horns

Hook 'em Horns

by LonghornWSO on Dec 22, 2007 6:44 PM CST reply actions  

DUDE!

Follow up on your shots!

Hook 'em Horns

by LonghornWSO on Dec 22, 2007 6:45 PM CST reply actions  

We've got to go inside

too many jumpshots. It's great if they go in, but we can't live and die by them.

D is better so far. Box and 1 D confirmed

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 6:45 PM CST reply actions  

That's two

turnovers in a row

Hook 'em Horns

by LonghornWSO on Dec 22, 2007 6:46 PM CST reply actions  

3rd foul on Walton

so he and Morgan have 3 at least according to ESPN.com boxscore

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 6:47 PM CST reply actions  

IMO

when GJ comes back, AJ has to be the one going to the bench.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 6:49 PM CST up reply actions  

No doubt. Mason plays D

and we will have another scorer in GJ, so we can afford. But what we need is a player with AJ's scoring ability and Mason's D, a more complete player.

by whills on Dec 22, 2007 6:51 PM CST up reply actions  

nice foul

on James. However, it seems that MSU has the momentum on their side.

Hook 'em Horns

by LonghornWSO on Dec 22, 2007 6:53 PM CST reply actions  

Glad to see

that James picked up both FTs.

Hook 'em Horns

by LonghornWSO on Dec 22, 2007 6:54 PM CST reply actions  

We're going to need all the FTs

in this type of game. Can't leave any points on the floor.

by whills on Dec 22, 2007 6:56 PM CST up reply actions  

MVP for us is James so far

He's been a big boy on the boards. Double double already.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 6:55 PM CST reply actions  

Back to a 5 pt game

Nice to see DJ drive and get the foul. We need to go inside, get FTs, and make them.

Connor with another block.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 6:56 PM CST reply actions  

And DJ needs to attack those guards

ever so often if they have three fouls.

by whills on Dec 22, 2007 6:57 PM CST up reply actions  

It's going to happen at the end

I see DJ taking over on offense at the end. Channeling his inner KD side.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 6:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I think he needs to now.

He opens it up - and everyone else, too.

by whills on Dec 22, 2007 7:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Izzo zone

Izzo's gone to a zone to keep the penetration to a minimum; we've not counter-adjusted very well at all, running picks for a man defense.

If we're going to play Abrams and his terrible defense, we should at least run some overloads and double screens to get him an open look on the three. If they over-rotate to stay with him, the middle should be open for a cutting Atchley.

--PB--

by Peter Bean on Dec 22, 2007 7:01 PM CST reply actions  

Finally

They've been bumping our guards all night long. Very smart by Izzo. Refs have barely called it.

--PB--

by Peter Bean on Dec 22, 2007 7:04 PM CST reply actions  

Good call

At halftime, goingforthecorner. We've done a better job getting it to Atchley; I wasn't sure that was something we could do. We need to do it more.

--PB--

by Peter Bean on Dec 22, 2007 7:05 PM CST reply actions  

Great, now we're trading baskets

Transition defense has been bad in addition to all the other aspects of defense.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 7:06 PM CST reply actions  

This is the blueprint

Muscle, muscle, muscle the Texas guards.

If the refs allow it, it's trouble for our offense.

--PB--

by Peter Bean on Dec 22, 2007 7:06 PM CST reply actions  

It seems to me

that MSU fires back after every one of our baskets with a quick basket of their own, while we're taking our time getting the play set up. It seems to be affecting the game's momentum.

Hook 'em Horns

by LonghornWSO on Dec 22, 2007 7:07 PM CST reply actions  

not just every basket

but every one of our offensive plays

Hook 'em Horns

by LonghornWSO on Dec 22, 2007 7:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Wow DJ misses both.

and Spartans score. It's a double digit deficit. It's time to man up.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 7:07 PM CST reply actions  

If we have a run in us:
  1. We need to keep drawing fouls
  1. We need to hit free throws
  1. The defense must improve dramatically. They're scoring at an absurd rate.
--PB--

by Peter Bean on Dec 22, 2007 7:08 PM CST reply actions  

With 7+ left, it has to be soon

In 2.5 minutes we must cut it to 5-6 range.

by whills on Dec 22, 2007 7:11 PM CST up reply actions  

We can't stop them

And they're muscling us up on D. I don't see it happening.

--PB--

by Peter Bean on Dec 22, 2007 7:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't either.

We're taking too long; need to be in two-minute offense.

by whills on Dec 22, 2007 7:13 PM CST up reply actions  

and them hitting their FTs

isn't helping either. Now we're down by 13.

Hook 'em Horns

by LonghornWSO on Dec 22, 2007 7:14 PM CST up reply actions  

AJ

finally a 3!

In Mack & Rick We Trust.

by Cyrus on Dec 22, 2007 7:15 PM CST reply actions  

WTF?

follow up your fucking shots! Go after your own rebounds, instead of running backwards on D right after attempting the 3!

Hook 'em Horns

by LonghornWSO on Dec 22, 2007 7:15 PM CST reply actions  

We need to run back

Our transition D has been horrible, and the only way of fixing that is sacrificing the offensive rebound to get back quicker.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 7:16 PM CST up reply actions  

At what cost?

we lose more offensive rebounds. Better to fight and get the offensive rebound, and then score.

Hook 'em Horns

by LonghornWSO on Dec 22, 2007 7:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Spartans have the size advantage

The % of getting the offensive rebound is low to begin with, and we've been giving up easy layups in transition. That HAS to stop.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 7:20 PM CST up reply actions  

AJ can hit the spot up three

but needs to work on shooting off the run and off the dribble.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 7:15 PM CST reply actions  

We speed up

State is missing
but so are we. damn

by whills on Dec 22, 2007 7:17 PM CST reply actions  

Why on fast breaks

are we stopping at the 3 point line and taking shots (and missing, by the way), instead of taking a 2-point shot with a better chance of making it?

Hook 'em Horns

by LonghornWSO on Dec 22, 2007 7:18 PM CST reply actions  

We could've made this a game

had we just hit our recent shots. AJ three, Connor three, DJ three, James layup, AJ floater could've all gone in.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 7:19 PM CST reply actions  

I think we're worn down

and the legs are getting tired.

Their bench is stronger and Rick hasn't subbed much the second half to keep up. Now we pay.

by whills on Dec 22, 2007 7:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Also

Michigan State has played very, very well. They've played outstanding on both sides of the ball. We've certainly not played our best, but a big part of that has been MSU.

--PB--

by Peter Bean on Dec 22, 2007 7:22 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with that.

They hit their shots consistently when it counted and played opportunistic D.

by whills on Dec 22, 2007 7:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep

and major props to Tom Izzo. I don't know about out-coaching Barnes (I don't see what Rick really could've done), but his game plan has been completely flawless.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 7:23 PM CST up reply actions  

James

He is not the usual Damion James ... sigh

In Mack & Rick We Trust.

by Cyrus on Dec 22, 2007 7:24 PM CST reply actions  

I'll still take 14 pts and 15 rebs

against a physical team. His FT shooting needs to improve, and he missed a couple of easy bunnies. But other than that, I can't really complain about his effort today.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 7:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Me neither. He was an iron man tonight.

And I'm happy to see his jumper return. He was stellar from outside and we damn sure needed those points.

by whills on Dec 22, 2007 7:32 PM CST up reply actions  

WOW more point blank misses

Add two more to the list. We're dead tired and we've been playing a little soft today.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 7:24 PM CST reply actions  

It was a nice run

as they say, these games should help us in March.  Good night, Merry Christmas and see you all Thursday night.

by FutureMan on Dec 22, 2007 7:27 PM CST reply actions  

i think we waste too much time

having augustin dribble near midcourt waiting for abrams to come around 3 screens, then not passing to him once he does come around. and i dont see the point of running pick and rolls for augustin when he can just take his man off the dribble anyway. who are we screening anyway since theyre in a zone?

by titans10 on Dec 22, 2007 7:28 PM CST reply actions  

GJ would have helped tonight

but the bench has to get better even with that.

by whills on Dec 22, 2007 7:28 PM CST reply actions  

GJ doesn't solve all problems

There were a number of things wrong today, starting with the defense, and Johnson won't magically change all of it. The guard play was mediocre overall.

We were not ready for their physical play. Despite that, Michigan State could also give us a taste of our own medicine. They ran a lot after our baskets. They are very athletic and have size with Suton. They will be a really tough team to beat in March.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 7:32 PM CST up reply actions  

That they will be.

The Horns will be six deep and still be weak in the paint. GJ has talent but not much experience yet; we'll pay for that along the way. With weakness both in the back-up big guys and not much help at all with the guards, this isn't going to be easy.

by whills on Dec 22, 2007 7:36 PM CST up reply actions  

DJ and AJ

are 13 of 33 combined. AJ was 4-12 from three and we were 9-27 overall from 3. That's way too many threes, and we can only hope that the shot distribution changes with Johnson's offense.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 7:38 PM CST reply actions  

LOL Abrams

they guy has proven he can shoot spot up. We just have to somehow get the guy open on a consistent basis. Way easier said than done though.

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 7:39 PM CST reply actions  

Down to 5 with :22.9 left...

It makes me feel better anyway. Some damn fine three point shooting.

by whills on Dec 22, 2007 7:39 PM CST reply actions  

77-72

We can do it!!

In Mack & Rick We Trust.

by Cyrus on Dec 22, 2007 7:39 PM CST reply actions  

Changes

As much as I love Rick Barnes, I think he got outcoached by Tom Izzo Tonight

Knowing that Texas lacks depth, Izzo tried to up the tempo and pushed around Texas on the offensive end and the defensive end. His team stretched the 2-3 zone and 2-1-2 zone by being patient, which resulted in a great deal of fatigue for Texas players. Our team was gassed by 15 min mark of the first half.

But I agree with most of the points people have said above.
-Augustin is dribbling the ball too much and not sending the ball to the post off of pick and roll.
-Lack of lost post presence limits Texas's offense to dribble penetration and kick out jump shots only!!
-James is getting too happy with his jumpers. We need him to be a post presence.
-I was extremely impressed with Atchley. He hustles and makes good decisions (except for the one errant pass). I think he needs to post up more tho.
-With Augustin out of the game, our offense disappears. You cant expect the starting point guard to play full 40 min. Thats absurd.

my first born shall be named vy

by hookemkp on Dec 22, 2007 7:42 PM CST reply actions  

morgan killed us
my first born shall be named vy

by hookemkp on Dec 22, 2007 7:43 PM CST reply actions  

damnit

We seriously had a chance if DJ had made that layup.

In Mack & Rick We Trust.

by Cyrus on Dec 22, 2007 7:43 PM CST reply actions  

Well that's game

nice job Abrams not giving up. Maybe DJ should've just shot the three instead of driving or find AJ (who I assume was getting shadowed)

What are the MSU fans chanting?

by goingforthecorner on Dec 22, 2007 7:45 PM CST reply actions  

wow...

... I'm not shocked we lost, but I am shocked that I again knew exactly why we would lose, and then rationalized it away in a homeristic way.  I knew AJ couldn't shoot (until the end, thanks for waiting), and I knew we didn't have any consistent shooters, but I assumed that the week off would have them back on their game.  Dumb.  I will not be confident about any other game until we get our touch back.  What is up with getting out-ran by MSU?

Also, I know everyone saw the "ESPN, only 2 things come from Texas..." sign.  WTF?  They put that on TV?  I hate them.  It is slightly avenged, however, in that all of their players and fans were so ugly.

Growing up, I only fed Jared Norton paper. That's why he eats plays.

by Horn Brain on Dec 22, 2007 7:57 PM CST reply actions  

Muscle

Years ago, I saw those big MSU guys and thought UT looked a little weak in comparison.  Then James Thomas came along and I thought we were going in the right direction.  We need some bigger, tougher guys or we'll only be pretty good.

by bfaut86 on Dec 22, 2007 8:18 PM CST reply actions  

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