It Could Be Worse

by PB @ BON on Aug 3, 2007 6:20 PM CDT in Football Comment 42 comments

I went over to Aggie Yell, the Texas A&M Rivals site, to check out the reaction to Andre Jones' arrest. Unsurprisingly, there was lots of hooing and hawing over Texas' problems - about what I expected.

Tough as it was to read, I worked my way through the message board and stumbled across a thread on Vince Young's training camp scuffle, in which he got physical with a Titan defender for tackling too rough with his wide receivers.

I expected a bunch of lame comments, but I was greeted instead with a loud reminder that even with our recent arrest problems, things could be much worse. We could have a fanbase that's in part comprised of people like this:

Nice work by the AggieYell moderators in letting that kind of hate speech fly, and kudos to the Aggie fans for being such outstanding examples of Lack Of Social Progress.

Gig 'em, guys.

--PB--

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Yeesh

Something "comical, to say the least," is how two people with 10,000 posts between them feel that their best contribution to an ongoing discussion is by saying little more than "sip queer" and "queerbloods." Crap like this reiterates the fact that this years game against the Aggies needs to be the one where Fran gets a pink slip.

When does football start again?

by bendj on Aug 3, 2007 8:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Some things never change

I remember an Agro teacher back in high school had the audacity to say "I like to visit Austin, but too many queers and fags to live there"....Agro alums do a great job of carrying the backward idiot bumblefuck torch for their university.

by burntup on Aug 3, 2007 8:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

one thing i like about aggies

Many of them make me feel much better about myself as a valuable, contributing member of society. When I'm feeling down, I think "hey, it could be worse; I could be an ignorant, homophobic neanderthal like brian_wallace." It usually cheers me up.

...til Gabriel blows his horn

by BigTexBD on Aug 3, 2007 9:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Winning

I would be classless too, if my team finally beat our rivals....for the first time this century.

You can't spell cocksucker without OU.

by maverick76904 on Aug 3, 2007 10:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

you're a bRuin?

Fight On! Beat the Wolverines!

by USCLink on Aug 4, 2007 3:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

PB

don't make me take back that copy of the eyes of texas i bought tonight. what in the world brought up this post?

are these guys morons? YES
do they represent the majority of our fanbase? NO

by WacArnolds on Aug 4, 2007 1:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

you bought a copy?!

wow. i don't think i could ever bring myself to purchase an opposing team's magazine. peruse it in the bookstore, perhaps, but even that would make me feel dirty. i admire you for it though. you're clearly less petty than I.

as for these guys, they may not represent a majority, but they do represent a vocal minority. and as long as the minority is more vocal than the majority, they're your representatives, fair or not. and give PB a break here. he (and we) have had a bad, bad week as far as texas football goes. we need something...

by billyzane on Aug 4, 2007 1:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We know

We know most Aggies are good folks.

Still, I wanted to make a point. The Aggie Yell moderators shouldn't let that crap slide, and they do, because they fear cancellations of subscriptions.

But, yeah, to your point - I and most Longhorns know that the vast majority of the Aggie family is comprised of good people.

--PB--

by PB @ BON on Aug 4, 2007 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

thats cool

I know that its been a rough week/off-season, and that the internet portion of our crowd isn't the best and brightest. i just thought you mispoke with

We could have a fanbase that's largely comprised of people like this

I'm assuming that traffic on the site is through the roof with all the extracirricular activities, and this would be a perfect opportunity to showcase to the newbies just how stupid some people can act.

anyways, book looks nice. i'm not going to read through it since its a gift for someone, but whenever i'm at that person's house, i'll take a gander. Did laugh out loud at the bookstore at this one though.

Step 5# - Admit to Greg Davis that you wronged him when you created www.Take-Greg-Davis-Down-a-Peg.com.

That's gold, Jerry. Gold!

by WacArnolds on Aug 4, 2007 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Edited

That's a fair point, Wac. Edited for clarity.

Glad you like the book. I'm really happy with the way it came out; thanks for buying a copy.

--PB--

by PB @ BON on Aug 4, 2007 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no problem

i'm always glad to help out a fellow football fiend, even if different colors run through our blood.

by WacArnolds on Aug 5, 2007 1:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hey, those guys are spot on

vince shoulda manned up and punched a guy with a helmet on. that woulda shown everyone how manly and unqueer he is.

by the other Andrew on Aug 4, 2007 1:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No.

He should have drawn his saber and challenged the guy to swordfight.

http://www.aggies9496.com/Images/Foo...

I guess it was the beatings made me wise. But I'm not about to give thanks, or apologize.

by TheJeezus on Aug 4, 2007 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Other suggestions for Ag

Dear agg,
Keep up the good work and insightful commentary on your fan boards. Here are some more suggestions for insulting terms that involve the word "queer":

Longqueers
Queerhorns
Orangequeers
Burnt queer
Queered orange
DQR Memorial Stadium
Queevo

I hope this helps add to your discourse. You guys are the best. Way to represent your university and football team.

by Kool Hand on Aug 4, 2007 4:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

RE: Queevo

That's what I use when recording Will & Grace on TV.

by DogTown on Aug 7, 2007 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

silly

this is probably the silliest thing i've ever seen posted on bon. give me a break. they're football fans talking trash. this isn't "hate speech," and football has nothing to do with "social progress" (whatever that means).

bon is a great sports blog, but it sucks as a mouthpiece for the aclu.

by mikey 4 on Aug 4, 2007 6:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm gay, and it's not silly to me

Admittedly, it's more sophomoric than hateful to consider "queer" or even "c-sucker" an insult. But I'm glad PB called them on it.

by NYCHorn on Aug 4, 2007 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

grow some thicker skin

there's no reason to make a big deal out of this or to "call them on it." this is classic trash talk. i've joked about the a&m faggies for as long as i've watched football. i know they don't actually have a homosexual lifestyle; i'm just giving them a hard time.

by mikey 4 on Aug 4, 2007 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Classic" trash talk?

Really?

Even if you don't find it offensive for societal reasons, you should at least find it offensive for its unashamed immaturity and its overall lameness and low-mindedess. Apologies, but "classic" trash talk is made of better stuff.

A&M faggies?.....wow.

by BrooklynHorn on Aug 5, 2007 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes, really

by "classic" i mean that texas kids grow up with this kind of talk. i'd be shocked to meet someone who came up through any football program in the state and never encountered teammates making sexually derogatory comments towards opponents.

and if immaturity -- even the unashamed kind -- offends, perhaps football isn't the best sport to follow.

by mikey 4 on Aug 5, 2007 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

actually ...

I'm more offended by your calling this discussion "silly" than I am by a couple of adolescent Aggie boys. The benefit of this discussion is that it gives me an opportunity 1) to ask why it's still ok to say "faggies" when we don't permit racial slurs, and 2) to advise you that there is no such thing as a "homosexual lifestyle" any more than there is a heterosexual "lifestyle." Thanks -- I'm done now -- back to football.

by NYCHorn on Aug 5, 2007 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

my apologies...

for not watching my every move to ensure i don't offend anyone with a stray comment. i call a spade a spade, and making a big deal about the quoted comments is silly.

because the jury is still out on the reason for homosexuality. if homosexuality is genetically determined, then i concede such terms are inappropriate, for one shouldn't deride based upon an immutable trait. but if homosexuality is a choice--i.e., if one can choose to be gay, just as one can choose to be a biker or a hunter (and, consequently, to bike and to hunt)--then there's nothing wrong at poking fun at the choice (just as there's nothing wrong with slandering bikers and hunters, to the extent one disagrees with their respective choices).

i have plenty of friends in dupont circle who would disagree with your statement. homosexuals form a cohesive subculture in society. they face distinct political obstacles, struggle with their own familial challenges, enjoy exclusive social activities (e.g., parades, gay bars), read literature authored for and by gays, often geographically segregate themselves from surrounding society, and share a host of other characteristics that separate gays as a subculture. true, physical desires and/or acts do not necessitate participation in this lifestyle, but the lifestyle exists nonetheless.

but hey--you like football and, as a bonus, keep your infinitives together. i'm sure we can get along.

by mikey 4 on Aug 5, 2007 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Its called a venn diagram

all people within that culture are homosexuals, but not all homosexuals are a part of that culture. I know, because none of the homosexuals I know subscribe to that lifestyle.

by BrooklynHorn on Aug 5, 2007 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's fine

my point is that the lifestyle exists, not that everyone who has homosexual urges associates with the homosexual culture.

by mikey 4 on Aug 5, 2007 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

jury ain't out

Not on the question of choice, anyway. The only questions are in the equation of how much genetics + how much early life experience = sexual orientation. As for your friends in Dupont Circle ... BrooklynHorn says it well.

by NYCHorn on Aug 5, 2007 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

sure it is

first, as we both well know, one can find case after case in which homosexuals have been made to suppress their homosexuality. certainly, not all cases are successful, but enough are to leave the orientation question open. and the fact that progressives denounce studies and anecdotes that affirm traditional conclusions doesn't make those studies and anecdotes go away. i'm not out to start a battle of the studies, but only to acknowledge that i've encountered studies coming down on both sides of the issue.

second, all sorts of higher-order behaviors are indeed deliberate choices. when people throw around homosexual slurs, they aren't thinking of the guy who has secret desires upon which he never acts, and is heterosexual in every other way. they're targeting the stereotype--the person who has made conscious decisions to look, to act, and--socially speaking--to be, gay. in this sense, the slurs are indeed directed at social choices, even if underlying sexual urges are biologically determined.

by mikey 4 on Aug 5, 2007 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even if it is a choice

Why does that make it ok discriminate against?

by Wells on Aug 5, 2007 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

my intuition...

my intuition is that it's socially acceptable to poke fun at the choices people make, because people assume that risk when they make choices and have the ability to unmake their choices and thereby avoid future ridicule.

conversely, people assume no risk of taunting based upon immutable characteristics and, by definition, lack the ability to undo them.

by mikey 4 on Aug 5, 2007 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

where to begin ..

If you are talking about so-called conversion therapy, there is no scientific validity to those "studies" -- none. As for the individual cases, well, humans can pretend to be anything they want, but the gay zebra can't change his stripes. "Traditional conclusions" are rooted in ignorance and bias, as are many of your comments.

Hat-tips to Justin, Cyrus, Wells and screwou for keeping the balance and levity in this conversation.

Now, for real this time, back to football!

by NYCHorn on Aug 5, 2007 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dont think you can

generally make the only factor be choice in deciding what can a can't be joked about. Some other "choices" that would be hard pressed to say it would accaptable:

Religious Choice. Is it ok to degrade someone because they made the choice to be Jewish, Muslim, or any other religion?

Inter-racial marriage. Is it ok to discriminate against someone because they chose to marry someone of a different race?

by Wells on Aug 5, 2007 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i don't know

i'm not here to put forth a comprehensive moral framework. but i have no problem poking fun at religious choices. i've cracked jokes at fundies and scientologists. i'm not sure i can explain why it doesn't bother me, but it doesn't. discrimination based on interracial marriage is ultimately based on one spouse's race. again, i don't mean to suggest i have strict doctrinal reasoning for these social judgments; i'm driven mainly by social intuition.

by mikey 4 on Aug 5, 2007 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

At the end of the day...

... the point is that there are hundreds of ways of making fun of Aggies and Sooners without resorting to cheap racial, sexual or religious slurs. We all have the benefit of a REAL college education, let's use it when we bash our rivals, shall we?

I was born gay, I was nurtured to be gay, I choose to be gay. Does it matter? I don't expect you to accept my sexual orientation or be comfortable with it. As a member of the same community, however, I do expect you to be sensitive to the views expressed by me and the likes of NYCHorn. Just as you should expect me to be understanding if you take offense at any of my comments.

Officially a Limey Longhorn

by patienthornsfan on Aug 6, 2007 2:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

on an off topic note

you guys are too lucky! I was in a gay bar last night, can't believe how easy it is for you guys to get laid. :)

Go Horns, Go Vince, Go Mavs

by Cyrus on Aug 5, 2007 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Easy

I wanna know what bar you're hanging out at Cyrus. :-)

The only reason it's easier for us to get laid is cuz we're talking about 2 guys here. Guys are basically walking hormones and are always up for it. Put 2 guys together and the odss of scoring go up exponentially. Plus we don't have all that messy emotion stuff getting in the way.

Just in case you're still taking me seriously at this point.... don't.

Officially a Limey Longhorn

by patienthornsfan on Aug 6, 2007 1:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

:-]

Go Horns, Go Vince, Go Mavs

by Cyrus on Aug 7, 2007 2:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

People do take offense

People do take offense to that kind of stuff, which is why we moderate it.

Same goes for misguided Longhorn fans who throw around the "Faggies" insult.

As for the lack of social progress comment, that was just a jab. I'm not making any grand statements here. Just poking at the backwards segment of the Aggie fanbase who denigrate Austin for being "full of queers."

Nothing more, nothing less.

--PB--

by PB @ BON on Aug 5, 2007 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

oSu bords

Their also saying similar things on the okla state message boards. They also somehow have the thought in their minds that they will beat Texas this season. JamesOn Curry must have left his stuff after he left to the NBA

Will Rogers never met Barry Switzer

by Rand O on Aug 4, 2007 8:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Gentlemen, Gentlemen...

I think everyone's feelings on this matter can best be summed up by the immortal words of one Mr. Ron Burgundy...

"You stay classy aggieland!"

On a side note....Kellen Heard just ate his own grandmother.

by justin1longhorn on Aug 5, 2007 11:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

One other point

These same classy Aggys are probably in the same group of guys that thought it was manly for Heard to cheapshot Colt last year. Given the assumption that it is "manly" to be like Heard or "queer" to be like VY, then I would have to say that, deep down inside I am a queer - and I am as heterosexual as they come...I like the ladies!

These quotes are nothing more than pure ignorance from a couple of overzealous redneck, backwoods, retarded Agro football fans - nothing else. The point is, I am sure there are plenty of 'Horns fans with similar viewpoints about other teams - PB and his team simply have enough class about themselves not to let those types of comments on this site. I think PB should be applauded for that! I think we can all get on here and bash the LandThieves and Agros without having to resort to juvenile comments which may offend some people. For crying out loud...we bashed a 12 year-old kid and his elastic-waisted pants wearing soccer Mom for the better part of the season last year because the kid was caught sobbing hysterically on national TV - what can be better entertainment than that? Kudos to the BON team for maintaining a class operation!

by Screw O.U. on Aug 5, 2007 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs