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Dare we compare 2008 with 2005?

Now that the Horns have held onto the #1 ranking for one full week, I thought I might open the distasteful but titillating comparison of the 2005 MNC team and this 2008 Longhorn team. Many view the 2005 team as an inevitable force of nature with VY as the eye of the hurricane. Nervous tentative comments about this years team, driven by scars from meltdowns in 2006 and 2007, would have us believe that the 2008 Horns are getting by on moxie, wiliness, and smoke and mirrors. Others would argue that this is silly because we haven't seen what the 2008 team can do for a whole season. I thought the question worth entertaining because I sense the fans could have a little more confidence in this 2008 team.

I'm here to argue that the play of the 2008 team is every bit a force of nature as that of 2005, only different. If the 2005 team was a hurricane, the 2008 team is an army of loggers with chainsaws and unlimited fuel. The teams, or  "trees," on the schedule will be chopped down with ruthless efficiency rather than speed and fury. As college football fans, we are used to seeing teams win through explosive plays and dominant defenses; other methods of success are suspect. But this Horns team is as capable of chewing through teams as a top NFL offense.

In some ways, 2008 may be more likely to be our year than 2009 because the transcendant play of Brian Orakpo, who may be as dominant at DE as VY was at QB, will not be in play in 2009. That doesn't mean 2009 won't be a MNC year, it just means that this 2008 team, while young in many areas, has terrific talent that is capable of winning against all comers.

Star-divide

The 2005 team was a cult of VY's personality (not that that's bad, just different) that died when he left, particularly on defense. The 2008 Horns rely on many more players and in that sense can win in many more ways. If the outcome seems in doubt in more games than in 2005, I think the quality of opposing teams is much better this year. VY was such a dominant player that defenses had to sacrifice deep safeties and LB drops to keep him in check, which opened up the middle for David Thomas and Billy Pittman and allowed Vince to pass effectively with easy throws over the middle. The 2008 team is a cerebral team with high football IQ players scattered throughout the roster (Ulatoski, Hall, McCoy, Ogbonnaya, Shipley, Cosby, Miller, Orakpo, Muckelroy, Gideon), and the mental capabilities of this team are worth including in any consideration of talent.

There were numerous future NFL stars starting on the 2005 roster, but such future stars are on the 2008 roster as well, but they are less obvious because we lack the 20/20 hindsight. Barring injury, Ulatoski, Hix, Hall, Cosby, Shipley, Williams, McCoy,and Cody Johnson will all make NFL rosters. On defense, Orakpo will be a top 10 draft choice, and Kindle will follow a year later. Gideon, Thomas, Chykie Brown, and Muckelroy will all eventually make NFL rosters as well.

Let's break it down by position group

QB - Vince Young, one for the ages vs. Colt McCoy, already the most accurate and prolific passer in UT history and undeniable field leader, Slight EDGE to 2005 and only because VY's accomplishments are proven with a Big 12 title and MNC, which Colt does not yet have.

RB - a young Jamal Charles +Selvin Young+ Ramonce Taylor vs. Cerberus - slight EDGE to 2005, mostly because of Taylor

TE - David Thomas vs. Blaine Irby - EDGE  2005, but mostly because Irby is injured

WR - a green Limas Sweed, Billy Pittman, Nate Jones, a young Quan Cosby vs. senior Cosby, Shipley, Collins, Kirkendoll, and Williams EDGE 2008

OL - Scott, Sendlein, Blalock, Studdard vs. Ulatoski, Tanner, Hall, Dockery, Hix. EVEN, given the way Tanner has been playing. 2005 was a better run-blocking unit, but 2008 is a better pass-blocking group.

DL -  EDGE to 2008 with Melton, Houston, and Rak, who anchor arguably the best, and certainly the fastest, D line in the country.

LB - Given that Bobino, as a redshirt freshman, was a star of the 2005 group and has been supplanted by Kindle, Muckelroy, and Norton, BIG EDGE to 2008.

Secondary - No need to dive in here, the 2008 group is just too young - BIG EDGE to 2005

Kicking - Hunter Lawrence has a bigger, more accurate leg than any 2005 kicker, and no kicker has been more money than Ryan Bailey. Punting seems about even. EDGE 2008

Kick returning and blocking - Shipley and Cosby aren't bad, with both having returned kickoffs for touchdowns in the past 9 games, but few Texas returners have been as exciting as Ramonce Taylor. Michael Griffin and Brian Robison from 2005 were masters at blocking kicks. EDGE to 2005.
 
So that leaves 2005 having better talent than 2008 by one position group, and that was mostly due to the skills of Ramonce Taylor, for which there is no equivalent on the 2008 squad (as much as we might want Chiles to be that guy).

I think we should stop thinking about the 2008 team as college football's version of the '69 Mets, or as overachieving lunch pail types. Believe people - all those recruting classes have yielded talent that is now producing on the field. Let's understand that this is a special team that has the chance to be one of the all-time greats, right up there with 2005.

Poll
Which team do you think had more overall talent?
2005
83 votes
2008
10 votes

93 votes | Poll has closed

All comments, FanPosts, and FanShots are the views of the reader-authors who create them.

0 recs  |  Comment 12 comments

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Coaching

Coach BOOM and applewhite additions undoughtedly give 2008 a big advantage over 2005. In my mind, THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE.

by burntup on Oct 21, 2008 9:53 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

i agree...

I’ve always felt the thing missing was fire and hype…Mack just isnt that guy. When you get your talented players hyped great things happen, ala Vince 2005. I think Major and Muschamp are great motivators….

by lazylonghorn on Oct 21, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

rb?

I think that I would prefer to have the rb that we have available now. Now, I do believe that the 05 rb squad had more talent in the long run, but our rb now are much more reliable, have more experience, and they fumble WAY less.
Now, I have nothing against selvin or jamaal, or taylor for that matter, but Chris o. fumbles way less than selvin did, and fozzy is our jamaal, just with less playing time.
Overall I feel that if VY had more reliable running backs like the ones we have now, it would have made our running game more reliable.
And like I said, nothing against our rb in 05, I just find the ones we have now more reliable in the every down situation.

"There aint nothin' over till it's over. "
~Rocky Balboa

by Hook'em13 on Oct 21, 2008 10:13 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Interesting

At the time I voted, I was the lone voice (out of 18) in favor of the ‘08 team’s talent. My logic is that we’re judging the ‘05 team on its final finish and the NFL drafts status of the players. We have no clue how the ’08 team will finish, or how the players will fare in future drafts. My strong sense is that the Chykie’s and Kindle’s and Huey’s of this team will be high picks in coming drafts.

Something else that’s interesting: While the Horns were highly ranked entering 2005, many felt the best MNC shot was -—— 2006.

Recall that the ’05 team had to visit Columbus, College Station and Stillwater. Recall also that VY was expected to be the senior QB and leader of the ’06 team. That team returned all the key receivers from ’05, all the running backs, three starting OL and seven defensive starters to play an arguably more favorable schedule.

by edsp on Oct 21, 2008 10:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I dunno man

After the Michigan Rose Bowl, I think many people (myself at least) thought we had a great shot in 2005, schedule be damned.

by BoddickerIsClutch on Oct 21, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

On pure talent

Edge to 05’ off the starting roster in the National title game an amazing 15 are currently on NFL rosters, I see about half that from this years team.

by Reb10 on Oct 21, 2008 11:47 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think there's much debate

2005, at least among the starters, had superior talent than this one. That was one of the most dominating teams in the history of college football. I’d disagree that our O-line is even with 2005. That was a sick O-line we had, and virtually all of them went on to the NFL.

“TE – David Thomas vs. Blaine Irby – EDGE 2005, but mostly because Irby is injured”

Disagree. DT is just better than Irby. Even if he didn’t get injured and developed through the year, it is doubtful he’d reach the level of David Thomas this year.

“WR – a green Limas Sweed, Billy Pittman, Nate Jones, a young Quan Cosby vs. senior Cosby, Shipley, Collins, Kirkendoll, and Williams EDGE 2008”

Depends how you see it. Pittman was one of the leaders in yards per catch in all of college football, Limas was a big threat downfield, and we still had Cosby and a solid Nate Jones. I love Cosby and Shipley this year, but the 2005 group may have had more depth here. At least at this point in the season.

“LB – Given that Bobino, as a redshirt freshman, was a star of the 2005 group and has been supplanted by Kindle, Muckelroy, and Norton, BIG EDGE to 2008.”

I agree the edge for 2008, but don’t forget Aaron Harris. He helped make Bobino and Killebrew look good.

As far as Colt and Vince Young, there’s no question that VY was a freak of nature and we’ll likely never see his like at Texas for a long time. That’s not to hate on Colt, who has succeeded arguably the greatest college player to put on uniform with great class and success, but I don’t think any Longhorn would take Colt over Vince Young of 2005, who could single-handedly destroy a team.

I’m torn on the D-line. How can we forget the duo of Crowder and Robison and the middle of Wright and Okam (with Lokey)?

The 2005 team was one of the greatest in CFB history. Let’s leave it at that. This team does not match it in talent, but if they finish undefeated, they may be credited with something more impressive: Going through a tough schedule with no super-freaks like VY unbeaten is a testament of great coaching and teamwork. Of course, I’m not implying we’re a bunch of scrubs who are overachieving; we’re Texas and we always have great talent. But that 2005 group was just something else.

by TheElusiveShadow on Oct 21, 2008 12:42 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

As much as I hate so say this ...

I think we’re more similar to the 2000 Oklahoma Sooners team than any Longhorn championship winning team. They started at a lower ranking but I’d say we were similarly under the radar at #11 considering the hype surrounding Mizzou and Oklahoma.

Though it’s in reverse order of difficulty compared to 2008 Texas, they went through a mettle-testing 3 games in 3 weeks stretch (#11 UT, at #2 Kansas State, home to #1 Nebraska), had #23 TAMU as a trap game just a couple of weeks later (at #19 Kansas before the TAMU game?), and were required to replay what was basically an away game to a member of the earlier 3 game stretch (a revitalized Kansas State) in the Big XII Championship game (likely Missouri).

They also had Josh Huepel come out of nowhere to play out of his mind football for 13 games (though his puny 64.4% completion percentage makes me laugh compared to ’08 MyBoy).

I don’t know whether to be happy or sad.

Texas '06.

by afrokinger on Oct 21, 2008 3:04 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

a decent comparison and not a knock on talent

The 2000 Sooners had some amazing defensive players (Torrance Marshall, Rocky Calmus, Teddy Lehman, Roy Williams, Derrick Strait), a fresh coaching staff, and a new offensive system (geared by Mike Leach) that most teams, especially Texas, had trouble adjusting to.

However, on that team, most of the playmakers were freshmen and sophomores, not upperclassmen as on the 2008 Horns (McCoy, Ogbonnaya, Cosby, Shipley, Ulatoski, Orakpo, Miller, Melton, Muckelroy). I think that it is the skill of these players and their experience that makes Texas so good, rather than a new “system,” although the coaching staff is much more inventive than before.

by burnt in ny on Oct 21, 2008 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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