The Team Gave Us This Incredible Season. Today, Our Turn To "Make Us Proud"
by Peter Bean on Nov 30, 2008 1:21 PM CST
in Football
126 comments
"Remember the Cotton Bowl!" Texas students and fans chanted all week--an appropriate plea to voters to look past Texas' loss to Texas Tech and, in considering Oklahoma and Texas, vote up the Longhorns, 45-35 winners of this year's Red River Shootout.
It's been a case worth making, but now it's time for Longhorns fans to remember two of our other favorite program slogans--starting with "Come early, Be loud, Stay Late." Longhorns fans showed up early this week, we damn sure made our case loud, and we stayed late--rooting, campaigning, and hoping through the final snap of Saturday night's on-field action. That complete, Longhorns fans today have to do their part in the university's "Make Us Proud" campaign, refraining from staying too late by handling today's BCS standings release without any beyond the pale screaming or tantrum throwing.
Whatever we find out tonight,Texas backers do have a strong argument that voters should rank the 'Horns ahead of the Sooners on their ballots. To be more precise, a Texas backer's analysis might be based on any of several sound arguments supporting Texas ahead of Oklahoma. With literally dozens of variables that can legitimately be considered relevant factors in comparing the teams, how one values, for example, venue relative to margin of victory or difficulty of intra-conference versus non-conference schedules, will color that analysis.
Unfortunately, so long as we admit that much, we also have to admit in this particular instance that there are legitimate arguments for ranking Oklahoma ahead of the Longhorns. Inconvenient as it is--due largely to Texas Tech's 7-1 Big 12 record and win over Texas--head-to-head can neither be the beginning-and-end of a pro-Texas nor anti-Oklahoma argument. If a Texas fan believes the Longhorns can be ranked ahead of the Red Raiders despite the head-to-head loss, he necessarily must concede that it's possible Oklahoma can be ranked ahead of Texas despite the RRS setback. And even if Texas Tech didn't finish with the same record as Texas and OUl, we still have to be open to the possibility that there could exist circumstances under which a voter could justifiably rank the Sooners ahead of the 'Horns. Head-to-head play is simply one factor among many.
Texas supporters had this week, and still have today, a strong case supporting a higher ranking for the Longhorns. Personally, in my analysis? I think Texas deserves to be ranked above OU. When I measure out and weight each variable, then mix them all together, I come out pro-Texas. Others undoubtedly weight the variables a little differently but also come out pro-Texas. What Longhorns fans now have to acknowledge, however, is that there are legitimate ways to weight and mix the variables to justify ranking the Sooners ahead of the 'Horns. It's not an analysis I find compelling, given the Cotton Bowl, my thoughts on Texas' performance against the toughest four-game stretch in the country, and a host of other factors related to those two points. Nevertheless, I can imagine a perfectly rational argument for Oklahoma.
The upshot of all this is that Texas, Oklahoma, and every other team which hopes to play for a national championship all operate in the same system, and that system is a highly subjective one. College football is a poll-driven sport and not only is there no escaping that there will be ballot winners and losers, but more importantly, there is no Objective Truth in any individual ballot or, even, the aggregation of multiple ballots. Voters are allowed to weight the variables how they see fit, and even where we strongly disagree, if the voting argument is clearly rational... there simply is no way to say, "You're wrong." Or, "I'm right."
That's where we are today. While I, and most of you, believe we have strong reasons outside our fandom for supporting Texas, there will be some--probably many, hopefully not most--who go the other way. It will do us no good to heave wildly accusations of bias, wrong-headedness, or insanity. The truth is, ranking two teams so near-equally accomplished is more art than calculation. And while I'm going to be crushed if too many voters adopt a line of reasoning that leads them to rank OU ahead of Texas, the only thing I can do is explain why I analyze it differently, brainstorm and propose solutions to make this system less subjective, and acknowledge--however mournfully--that Texas didn't quite do enough this year to wind up where we hoped.
Of course, as many things that did not go Texas' way yesterday, perhaps today we'll be find ourselves celebrating a change in human voting that sends the 'Horns to Kansas City. It could certainly happen, andI don't have to spell out for anyone here any of the pro-Texas analyses upon which a large chunk of voters might base their realignment. But if things turn out the other way, let's take a deep breath, look at all the final voting, see how it shook out, express one more time (for therapy, I suppose) the case for Texas, and then move forward with some grace and some class.
Try to take that to heart, BONizens, because that last point is really the one which led me to this post. I couldn't possibly count how many times this football season Longhorns fans have at BON and other sites either praised Colt McCoy or Mack Brown for the way that they've carried themselves or, on the flipside, disapproved of the way another player or coach or fan has handled themselves and disgraced the team they support. Relatedly, a favorite pastime around these parts is pointing out the worst of the worst over at a place like TexAgs, where Farmer partisans regularly embarrass themselves blindly vomiting all brands of nonsense through the keyboard.
So please: Don't be a TexAg today, no matter the outcome. Don't let frustration lead you to spew half-truths or untruths. If you spot a take you don't agree with, challenge it on its merits without being an internet asshole. If opponent trolls come by to try to get your goat, do what you'd do at your tailgate outside DKR: try and reform them with a little politeness and hospitality, or ignore them if they're a lost cause.
And last, but not least, if the vote doesn't go our way, try not to be petulant in a way that winds up crapping on the 2008 Longhorns' incredible football season. This team is comprised of some of the most likable players in my lifetime, has been nothing short of brilliant, inspiring from start to finish, and a joy to watch. We take enormous pride in the University of Texas football program and have of late enjoyed enormous success while remaining a team, city, university, and fan base that most other college football fans respect. Visiting fans may not leave DKR thinking it's the wildest stadium atmosphere they've ever seen, but it's near-universally enjoyed thanks to the friendly spirit Texas fans embody.
Make Us Proud today, Texas fans. Win or lose. At worst, we root one more week against Oklahoma, prepared to settle for a Fiesta Bowl berth if OU beats the Tigers. Or... hey... at best, come 7:00 this evening we may lose our collective minds when it's announced that Texas picked up enough human votes to stay at #2 in the BCS Standings. All we know for sure right now is that it's going to be close either way.
Here's to a long, tense afternoon of waiting, and a BON we can all enjoy and be proud of this evening, no matter the outcome.
Hook 'em
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Great Read PB
The players and Coaches have shown nothing but class all week, there is no reason that we should not follow that example.
Adopt-a-recruit: Devon Kennard DE
Phoenix (AZ) Desert Vista 6'3" 257lbs
by blazzinken on Nov 30, 2008 1:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Missouri as Conference Champion?
While we bemoan the unfairness of the BCS and debate whether OU or UT belong in the conference championship game, just how absurd is it that Missouri with 3 conference losses will be playing for a chance at the conderence championship, while 3 teams in the South with 1or 2 losses will be staying home? They should either do away with the Big 12 Championship game (yes, i know the rea$on) or have the top 2 teams play. We need to correct the unfiarness in our own conference before we tackle the mess that is the BCS.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
by OBdoc on Nov 30, 2008 1:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
It should be “East vs. South” or something. But you know the North schools will cry foul and do everything they can to fight a realignment, because then they know their chances at conference titles will dwindle to almost nothing.
by TheElusiveShadow on Nov 30, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent message, PB
We’re Texas, and should properly represent our great institution, even on the internets.
by horndude on Nov 30, 2008 1:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Great read PB...
can I still cry in private?
-flo
by bleed burnt orange on Nov 30, 2008 1:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Either way, it has been a great season.
Texas will end up No.2 or No.3 in the country today, second place in all-time wins and a bowl game to look forward to in January. Think about our original discussion about this season in August. Did anyone envision where we are today? I certainly didn’t.
And the number of teams in the Top 25 from the Big 12 his season… wow. The old SEC plays the best football argument is over.
by dimecoverage on Nov 30, 2008 1:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Has this been discussed?
Well said PB and unless UT gets some type of bonus points in the computer rankings for beating a fellow Top 5 team, it’s hard to see how OU wouldn’t pass us based on SOS. They’ve got 3 wins in the Top 11 and we’ ve got one. I hope I’m wrong, but it’s hard to tell what all the suspense is for right now.
Anyway, one other thing I was looking at is still the potential for UT to end up in the Top 2 after next weekend even if we don’t go to KC for the conference championship.
Florida’s SOS took a pretty big hit yesterday with both LSU and Georgia losing. While the number of points they’ve been putting up are impressive, who have they really beaten? And if they beat Alabama, that’ll be big, but if they beat Alabama convincingly and Bama drops down like Tech did because let’s face it, Bama’s resume ain’t anyting to write home about either, what’s to stop the BCS from keeping UT ahead of Florida like it has been the last four or five weeks?
We may still be in this thing regardless and sitting out next weekend may be the best thing to happen to us. Obviously the voters will show a lot of love for Florida if they win the SEC, but UT should still have a pretty big edge in the computers, especially if stays highly ranked.
I’m not saying, I’m just saying.
Be nobody but yourself in a world that desperately wants you to be like everybody else.
by 54b on Nov 30, 2008 1:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Correction: 2nd to last line, "if OU stays highly ranked?"
Be nobody but yourself in a world that desperately wants you to be like everybody else.
by 54b on Nov 30, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And this;
They’ve got 3 wins in the Top 11 and we’ ve got one.
We beat OU, Mizzou, OSU, all ranked, so we have three. They have Tech.
Isn’t this correct>
by whills on Nov 30, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't think it mattered...
where the team was ranked when you beat them, but where they are ranked now. Maybe I’m wrong. And if you’re right, that blows my secnario out of the water because in that case, Florida would get a lot more credit for beating Georgia and LSU when they were much higher ranked.
We technically have 3 Top 10 wins, but only one of those teams is still in the Top 10.
Be nobody but yourself in a world that desperately wants you to be like everybody else.
by 54b on Nov 30, 2008 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is something I've wondered about, too.
Those were valid rankings when we beat those teams. I can understand the accrual of strength of schedule if teams gain such a ranking, but that should be a little different than beating the actual #1. If you beat a number 1 you should get a bonus that rolls with you.
Don’t know how this is judged, though, so no telling. I don’t like the idea of securing backdoor points in this particular case.
by whills on Nov 30, 2008 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that makes zero sense
There’s no logic behind giving a team credit for what a team was ranked when they beat them.
by andy_wooster on Nov 30, 2008 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The logic is that when you beat a top team, you get an immediate benefit.
The question I am asking is about a sustained benefit.
by whills on Nov 30, 2008 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, and the “end of season” ranking presupposes that the “time of game” ranking was incorrect – which isn’t always the case. A team like Oregon last year that lost a primary playmaker (Dixon) to injury was more accurately accounted for at the “time of game” against, say ASU and USC, than at the “end of the season” after a Leaf the Younger led losing streak.
There is some logic to accrual rankings, but I fear administratively it would just compound an already flawed system.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Nov 30, 2008 11:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You last statement is the kicker, learned hand.
In a discussion with HB, I brought up the concept of multi-dimensional models as opposed to all these two-dimensional ones. However, that, too, is of no use in the present situation, even if they could be constructed.
We are, indeed, dealing with a seriously flawed system at present.
by whills on Dec 1, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the Dixon example
is the exception that proves the rule. You can’t base a system on exceptional occurrences like that. 99% of the time when a team is ranked much higher earlier in the season than late it is because they were vastly overrated early in the season. See Clemson, Wisconsin, LSU, and even Georgia from this year. It should be up to the voters to take into account a team being weakened by crippling injuries.
by andy_wooster on Dec 1, 2008 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well
I realize that your point is about the computers overrating a team, as they obviously can’t take injuries into account. My rebuttal would be that those are still exceptional cases, and tweaking the system to take this into account would ultimately do more harm than good.
by andy_wooster on Dec 1, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
On that, I think we're all in agreement
Just noting a single catastrophic event could cause a flaw in the relatively information poor computer evaluations that could echo through the system.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Dec 1, 2008 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
right
There’s no logic to a sustained benefit. That would be nothing more than a reward for playing overrated teams early in the season. What would the purpose be? Should Alabama get credit for beating a top 10 team because Clemson was ranked 9th when they faced them? CU ended up finishing 7-5. What about Florida with LSU? They may have even been in the top 5 when Florida hammered them. Even Wisconsin was ranked in the top 10 at one point during the season.
by andy_wooster on Dec 1, 2008 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it really seems to me that this is just a half-baked attempt
to get Texas more credit for beating a team like Missouri that has turned out to be not nearly as good as some initially thought.
by andy_wooster on Dec 1, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I mostly agree
but there are some effects not being considered on this thread. One would be that there is more pressure and hype involved in playing a team that is highly ranked (all week the media is around, you might play on Saturday night primetime, you play a little uptight, etc.) Another team may face the same opponent several weeks later with fewer distractions, and with the luxury of playing loose.
Also, there may exist a “dying team” syndrome in which a team that accumulates a couple of losses might just quit on the season (coaching or qb controversies, media distractions, etc.), and again, any future opponents would also benefit from playing them once they’ve fallen out of the rankings. The Texas Tech team that Baylor faced, for instance, was probably not as tough, because they were no longer playing for a National Championship, as they had been back on Nov. 1 when we went to Lubbock.
I mostly get what you’re saying, but I think there may be a little more nuance here than the simple notion that a given team was over-rated.
by BrooklynHorn on Dec 1, 2008 5:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Two things andy...
One, this was not a consideration for now.
Second, this was in the context of a multi-dimensional statistical model, an accretion and growth model. In that case, prior experience can assume a benefit.
I am suggesting something which is more accurate than the current point systems currently in use. The problems are with multiple variables.
Some teams don’t sustain for some of the reasons named above plus a few more. That’s the nature of the season, not to mention the media market hype coming out of summer. That won’t change regardless of the models or the type of bowl or playoff systems.
by whills on Dec 1, 2008 10:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well said, PB
RECRUITS: Jordan Leslie (Tomball TX Tomball)
"Stats are for losers, I like winning games"
by 98horn on Nov 30, 2008 1:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wonderful PB....
I feel good however we end up, although I hope for one way more than another.
Hook'em
by TEXAS_FIGHT07 on Nov 30, 2008 1:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks PB
Glad to have a clearheaded voice amongst the cacophony.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Nov 30, 2008 1:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
well, I disagree that Mack has handled this with class
sorry, but I heard a lot of whining when he did his interview during the OU-OSU game last night.
I would argue that texas’ position is really due to some incredible luck on OU’s part. Who knew years ago, when this season’s non-conference schedule was put together, that Cincinatti would eventually hire Brian Kelly and win the Big East Championship this season? Who knew that Houston Nutt would decide he was tired of the people working against him in Fayetteville, leave for Ole Miss, and leave a normally competitive Arkansas team a dead fish of a squad for texas to stomp down? If you looked at those two games six years ago, you would say texas scheduled a tough opponent for them, and Oklahoma scheduled a mid-major who might give them some competition for a half before they lose. I will also point out that texas’ tradition of scheduling Rice or Houston to help recruiting in the Houston market hurts them in non-conference when put up against OU’s habit of scheduling TCU. Despite Rice’s winning season this year, they don’t quite give texas the notch in schedule strength that a win over TCU this year would have. Again, though, we come back to the issue of luck, b/c TCU was on texas’ non-conference schedule last season; it is just OU’s luck that they get to use that win to help their cause this year.
by Beergut on Nov 30, 2008 1:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Mack should be expected to state his case
Duh. However, he has always said that he thinks Tech and OU are great teams and that they don’t deserve to get screwed either. That’s not whining; that’s just stating his opinion but also giving due credit to the other teams in this mess.
by TheElusiveShadow on Nov 30, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Schedule
I think its been conclusively shown that our schedule has been tougher than OU’s.
by pleaseplaykindle on Nov 30, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
honestly.. how was he whining..
honestly.. how was he whining..he was constantly talking about how good the 3 teams were
honestly.. how was he whining..he was constantly talking about how good the 3 teams werehe barely even stated texas case he was being so nice about it
by bshaf on Nov 30, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
But you’ve got a creepy TS Elliot vibe going on.
by chief on Nov 30, 2008 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I love reading your posts.
Each line adds just a little more. Continue with the computer errors!
by HornPossessed on Nov 30, 2008 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
EBKAC error?
error between keyboard and chair? :-)
by Beergut on Nov 30, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It is entirey possible
that no other program has endured quite such an unlucky day as the Longhorns endured yesterday. Mizzou losing on the last play of the game, Tech coming from behind to beat Baylor, OU getting a garbage touchdown with 20 seconds left, and even Oregon St. blowing it against Oregon.
It isn’t just the factual outcomes of each of those games, it is also the narrative of how those games played out. All three Big XII contests went to the wire, and all three went against us, which means that Texas fans had to endure roughly 12 hours of agony, and gained nothing. But what’s that you say? We can still play USC in the Fiesta? Nope, we couldn’t get even a small break yesterday.
The statistical odds of all of that crapfest being dumped on us, in exactly that manner, have to be in the neighborhood of 360,000,000 to 1.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 30, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And if we lose the BCS by .01
I will truly lose my mind
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 30, 2008 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not to mention
that colorado/‘braska game in which the husker kicker miraculously nailed that 57 yarder. I bet if that game ends up a colorado win, it’s enough to make a huge difference in favor of texas.
Oh well.
by BigTexBD on Nov 30, 2008 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really???
Rice going 9-3 is the biggest break any team caught among the three and it’s not even close.
Rice upset Houston yesterday. Arkansas beat LSU in the last minute of the game on Friday. FAU beat FIU 57-50 in OT yesterday. Texas caught plenty of breaks yesterday.
by DoubleB on Nov 30, 2008 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Bigger than Baylor crapping their pants in the 4th quarter? I’m sure the Sooners are envious of our unranked-Rice advantage.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 30, 2008 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
But wait, there's more...
Brroklyhorn, you didn’t mention Cincinnati, Florida, and Alabama also winning. In fact, of the teams we were rooting for only Rice won (althouh I guess LSU and Georgia losing helped vis a vis Florida SOS). And regarding OU’s “garbage touchdown,” I don’t know whether Stopes planned it or not, but OU looked like they were running out the clock, OSU, I think, expected them to “take a knee” to 26 sec or so left, and weren’t ready when OU actually ran a play. Was that guy even touched?
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
by OBdoc on Nov 30, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That was truly awful
I think OU was trying to run out the clock, and OSU just gave up entirely. I think that run might have been the last play of the game, had OSU made the tackle.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 30, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am a statistics teacher.....
It was actually a 360,000,417 to 1 shot. But you were probably just rounding.
"A lot of people look for the easy way to do anything, in swimming there is no easy way." - Eddie Reese
P.S. 45-35
by SwimTexas on Nov 30, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the kind of poster PB advised us to ignore....
I suggest we do.
by the1austin on Nov 30, 2008 2:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
by utlonghorn24 on Nov 30, 2008 2:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
whatever
that fluff you just wrote blows my mind.
tamu spits
by burntorangenance on Nov 30, 2008 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can it
Mack Brown acknowledging that both Oklahoma and Texas Tech have had great seasons while at the same time defending his teams right to represent the Big XII South isn’t whining, it’s stating a case. Is it classless when a coach defends his 11-1 team whose only loss came on the backend of a 4 game hell stretch? Even Bob Stoops, whom I loathe with a passion, said last night that the system sucks and he wished there was a different way to decide this mess. Of course, he doesn’t have the whole “We beat Texas” argument going for him; he has to revert back to the whole “well, by that logic you need to put Tech ahead of Texas” bull.
And, I must ask, aside from trying to start a flamewar by asserting that Mack Brown was whining on Thursday night, why did you decide to write this? I can’t figure it out. I’m pretty sure none of us go over to your blog and write something like this.
"Stats are for losers, I like winning games."
by bendj on Nov 30, 2008 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
when did I decide to write it?
after I read PB’s assertion that Mack has handled this with class
I don’t think going on ABC during a game in which your team is not playing and politicking for your team is classy. Of course, all of you are going to disagree with me and say Mack is just sticking up for his kids, and that is fine. I don’t expect you to agree with me on this point.
However, if Mack truly wanted to be classy, he would have said, “You know, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State have a nice rivalry game they are playing tonight, and I don’t want to take away from that. If you want to interview me during the game to talk about my experiences as a coach at Oklahma when we played OSU, or you want to talk about my opinions of both of these teams since we have played them this season, that is fine. If you want to talk about the BCS or why I think my team deserves a higher ranking in any poll, I can’t do that interview during the game. This game is about the kids who played for OKLAHOMA and OKLAHOMA STATE, not a political drive for my team to get votes in a poll.”
Of course, Mack wants his kids to play in the Big 12 Championship, so he would never have said that, but it would have been the classy thing to do.
by Beergut on Nov 30, 2008 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I get what you're saying
But respectfully disagree.
What Mack did might rub some folks the wrong way—if you think a coach should just sit on the sidelines and let the chips fall where they may or whatever. That’s fine—I can understand how one might feel that way.
But your distaste for Mack Brown making himself available to the press does not make it “classless.” In his estimation, giving these interviews allowed him a chance to do something positive for his team. He reiterated over and over that he would not put down Tech or OU (at which point we might cross the line to something offensive), but just wanted to talk about why Texas’ season was, in his mind, the best of the three great seasons.
It’s cool if you’d prefer your coach not do that. But I find it an enormous leap to go from Mack’s granting interviews of the nature that he did to “classless.” It was no such thing.
--PB--
by Peter Bean on Nov 30, 2008 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I know most will disagree with me
I really can’t fault Mack for trying to get the best situation for his players.
I just really have issues with him doing it during the OU-OSU game.
by Beergut on Nov 30, 2008 4:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ugh go back to your attic canada
little brothers should be seen, not heard, especially when they don’t have anything worthwhile to say.
by iamjackburton on Nov 30, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Brown was not whining.
He stated the case diplomatically: He has (had) the right to do just that. If A&M had been in the same position, I doubt you would have called Sherman a whiner.
by dimecoverage on Nov 30, 2008 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't take anymore of this refresh, refresh and refresh again.....
I’m going to go paint my basement. That way, when I’m done, I can come upstairs knowing that all the polls are out.
By the way, awesome read PB.
by Brandon Worley on Nov 30, 2008 2:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Fantastic read, PB.
Extremely well thought-out, well said, and damn right.
No matter what, Hook ’Em Horns.
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
by utlonghorn24 on Nov 30, 2008 2:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
From an OU student/fan
Well said and congrats on a great season no matter how it plays out.
Boomer Sooner!
Come check out FanIQ for your one stop spot for all sports
by Jubanator14 on Nov 30, 2008 2:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Just what I needed to read
PB, you are a calming influence today. I have so much to do today after returning from the holidays, but was instead obsessively stressing out about all this BCS nonsense. What a great, unexpectedly successful season for the Longhorns. We all know how good this year’s team is and no voter/computer can take that away. Hook ’em always!
May Colt be with you. Yeah, that's right.
by bfaut86 on Nov 30, 2008 2:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
shocked we're this far ahead
especially in this year when i didn’t think we had much to look forward to except a decent bowl game. and here we are in the thick of the nc hunt! it’s just too awesome for words. even if the harris voters shaft us, man, this has been a great year. about a gazillion times more than i could have asked for at the start of the season.
by iamjackburton on Nov 30, 2008 2:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
nice post pb, but no thanks.
This is not just about losing out to ou and a big 12 title game, but it is about pushing for change to the bcs and creating a playoff. Sometimes peaceful protests do the trick, but often times they do not. And it’s then when you gotta pick up a bat and beat the shit outta somebody (lol). If it’s up to us then so be it. Sometimes the high road ain’t the right road.
I see a fiesta bowl filled with people wearing this:
http://www.cafepress.com/fanblogs.13600045#
Order now (or around 6pm)!
by kellen on Nov 30, 2008 2:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
what...
do you think that will accomplish? I agree that the system sucks, but even if they did change it, they’d find a way to mess it up. The BCS is not the thing that needs to be changed. The tiebreaker scenario IS. If we were in other conferences, most would favor us. Maybe the commish can avoid this in the future and change it, instead of leaving it in human’s hands and minds.
by vy til i die on Nov 30, 2008 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
excellent point
The BCS certainly has its problems (although if anybody remember the 80s and 90s, it is LIGHT YEARS better than that system), but this is all the fault of the Big XII.
by DoubleB on Nov 30, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sick...
Sick with worry…..but how great is it that we’re in the discussion.
I figured a repeat of 1999 this year – love the camaraderie and lack of ego on this team.
by JLP on Nov 30, 2008 2:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Stoops and BCS
Why is Stoops having a press conferences at 4:00 on ESPNN? This does not look good for us. Also, Brent Edwards, BCS analyst on ESPN projects OU at #2, ahead of UT. CRAP!
by TexasEx01 on Nov 30, 2008 2:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
JUST IN
im watching giants game and the dude said…“bcs out tonight, and i’m told there are some big changes…then the other guy said ’oh, sounds ominous for my longhorns”
???
by burntorangenance on Nov 30, 2008 2:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That was Daryl Moose Johnson..
he is on Longhorns side.. I’m watching the Redskins game as well. He said it perfectly.. “You played so hard for the season but you ended up let the computer to determine you fate”
by GoHorns1 on Nov 30, 2008 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Great post PB!
I remember Mack Brown talking on tv yesterday about a possible realignment of the Big !2. I kinda liked the idea. Maybe add 2 more big 12 games during season and get rid of north south. Best 2 teams have playoff if I remember right.
by gy2020 on Nov 30, 2008 2:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Harris is out
by JLP on Nov 30, 2008 2:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that's going to get there
Wolfe is also out, OU#1, UT#2
by DoubleB on Nov 30, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
holy crap
what does this mean? do we still actually have a chance????
by iamjackburton on Nov 30, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whether we will
play MNC game or not, I’m grateful that we are 11-1 this season. We have Applewhite has come back joined the Longhorns and Muschamp has improved our D greatly. No major injury on the player. I’m kind of not take everything for granted attitude to approach this thing.
PB well said…Class and Excellency is what the Longhorns is all about.
What starts here changes the world – The Texas Longhorns. Hook’em!
by GoHorns1 on Nov 30, 2008 3:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
harris
Could someone summarize the harris for those of us on mobile devices please.
by UTexasCPA on Nov 30, 2008 3:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Texas ahead by 6 votes
Texas jumped OU by 6 votes 2575 – 2569
by aaronlybrand on Nov 30, 2008 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
1 Alabama (107) 12-0 2,815
2 Florida (4) 11-1 2,619
3 Texas (1) 11-1 2,575
4 Oklahoma 11-1 2,569
5 USC 10-1 2,378
by burntorangenance on Nov 30, 2008 3:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
so...
ou barely ahead of us in the coaches…we’re barely ahead of them in the harris…and we were ahead of them in the computer last week…but they played a ranked opponent and we didn’t so…? i think they might still have the advantage on us here but then again i’m not bcs wonk so who knows.
by iamjackburton on Nov 30, 2008 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So....
That will only help us if we’re tied in the computers, right?
And that's a cold shot, baby...
by imissderrickjohnson on Nov 30, 2008 3:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
well...
We’re actually slightly ahead in the polls collectively because we were only down in the USA Today by 1, and we’re up in Harris by 6, so we could still lose slightly in the computers and come out ahead. Sadly, I think we’re farther behind than that in the computers
by DShankUT on Nov 30, 2008 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
osu was ranked ags weren't
is probably the deciding factor i would imagine. yet another shafting by little brother. sigh.
by iamjackburton on Nov 30, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It didn't help
that Cincy just clinched a 10 win, Big East Championship, either.
by Stuck in the Plains on Nov 30, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and I don't think
you’re going to be tied in the computers
by DoubleB on Nov 30, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well.....
Balls.
And that's a cold shot, baby...
by imissderrickjohnson on Nov 30, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just read...
on espn that OU got a call that they were going to KC. Don’t know how credible though. Announcement to come at 3:30 CST
by aaronlybrand on Nov 30, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Brad Edwards
said that if we are down by a spot in the computers then we’d have to be ahead in the harris poll by 31 points I think. If we are tied in the computers then we only needed to be ahead 2 points in the harris poll which we are.
by aaronlybrand on Nov 30, 2008 3:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
fox announcers
are already calling BCS is a big shake up…..
by Dawnpatrol on Nov 30, 2008 3:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The Stoops press conference
would he call it to bitch or would he call it to cheerlead?
By the way FOX just said their announcing the results next after NFL game.
by shadyrock on Nov 30, 2008 3:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The computers
throw out the top score and the bottom score to get the total, leaving the middle 4. Hoping we tie.
by shadyrock on Nov 30, 2008 3:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Harris results
Texas actually lost 2 points from last week in the Harris poll (2575 this week compared to 2577 last week) while Oklahoma Always Sucks lost 29 (2569 this week from 2598 last week).
by OU Always Sucks on Nov 30, 2008 3:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well...hamburgers...
"There are three kinds of people in this world: those who are good at math, and those who aren't..."
--GA Horn--
by GAHorn on Nov 30, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
These are your judges...
Win or lose (I fear lose), go check out the sites for the computer rankings. I’ve never cared to look before. Jeez, these look straight out of 1997. These are your judges…
http://www.bcsfootball.org/bcsfb/rankings
Until we get a playoff, enjoy
by JLP on Nov 30, 2008 3:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well...
time to order my burnt orange 45-35 shirt. Such bull.
by DShankUT on Nov 30, 2008 3:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think that's from last week...
"When you get to the end zone, act like you've been there before."
by txex92 on Nov 30, 2008 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN not updated yet either.
nice try, though!
"When you get to the end zone, act like you've been there before."
by txex92 on Nov 30, 2008 3:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
God!
I just want to break something. I’m going to write a really difficult quiz for my students tomorrow to show them how hard it is to get ahead in life.
And that's a cold shot, baby...
by imissderrickjohnson on Nov 30, 2008 3:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
seriously...
two teams that we already beat are playing for the championship of our conference. At least I can take comfort in the fact that I don’t live in Oklahoma.
by DShankUT on Nov 30, 2008 3:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Barry Switzer
Like I needed to hear him validating these standings. Alright, for PB I will make peace with this and go watch the Rice Texas BB game I DVR’d.
by shadyrock on Nov 30, 2008 3:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
OK, here comes Fiesta Bowl!!
Go Horns Go!!!
Let’s win in the Fiesta Bowl and maybe we will be crowned the alternate Champ!
by gy2020 on Nov 30, 2008 3:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
So, does this mean that if Mizzou beats OU, we back door in?
or does Bama have to win too?
by seekrain on Nov 30, 2008 3:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Told you so
Just had to say I told you the change in computer rankings would push OU over the top.
With that said, kudos to the author of this post. With Mack Brown aside, I wholeheartedly agree this UT team is a great team, and I will once again revert to my original decision to root for their success in their bowl game. The UT TEAM has done the conference proud, performing well throughout the whole season. Let no one forget they were projected third, I think, and have shared the conference regular season title. A great accomplishment, and I tip my hat to the Longhorns….
by TexasSooner on Nov 30, 2008 4:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not exactly, TexasSooner
We haven’t shared the “conference regular season title”, officially we finished in a 3-way tie for the division. And a “tie”, to quote Darrell Royal is like kissing your sister. However, we should be playing OU for the conference championship. There is no way a 3-loss Missouri ought to have a final shot at the conference title, while 1-loss UtT 1-loss Tech, and 2-loss OSU sit at home.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
by OBdoc on Nov 30, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
While I agree with you that an OU-UT game would be the REAL conference championship, and one I would prefer, the main reason for HAVING a conference championship (besides money) is because for leagues like the SEC and Big 12 that have so many teams that they cannot play each other, it allows 2 teams that did not play each other in the regular season to play against each other in the final, such as the SEC will do this year……
I was likening it to basketball, wherein I think the ‘regular season’ championship is actually much more of an accomplishment than winning the tournament…. I wanted to give UT the accolade that they deserve, because they truly are one of the top 3 teams. The debate will last FOREVER amongst us about who was best, but insomuch as the records go, there was a three-way tie for the south division, which also was the best record in the conference… Ergo, the three teams have tied for #1……
by TexasSooner on Nov 30, 2008 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So TexasSooner you knew Mizzou was going to lose?
I bet you made a lot of money.
by ajax77777 on Nov 30, 2008 4:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In truth???
I made 4 bets this weekend
Ga Tech over Ga, I won
KU over Missour, I won
TTU over Baylor, I lost (with the spread)
OU over OSU, I won
by TexasSooner on Nov 30, 2008 4:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Blame of the OOC schedule
Instead of blaming Stoops, or the coaches who vote, or the computers, blame whoever (Dodds, Brown,?) thought it would be a good idea to schedule the likes of UTEP and Florida Atlantic. We lucked out on Rice, most years that game would have brought our SOS down further. Substitute a team like Minnesota, Virginia, Ga Tech, FSU, Va Tech, Boston College, etc., for one of both of those games, and we would probably be going to the MNC.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
by OBdoc on Nov 30, 2008 4:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It's odd
Washington was supposed to be OU’s ‘big’ name, when they were scheduled, with Cincy and TCU middle of the road, and Middle TN State the warmup… This has been OU’s Non-con plan for the last few years, 1 Big name, 2 middle, and one easy…. Middle TN State backed out, and OU had to scramble to get ANYONE, and got stuck with TN-Chattanooga… But who would have guessed that Washington would have been SO horrid, and that Cincy would have been AS good?? They basically swapped…
BTW, OU has to go TO Cincy, next year….
by TexasSooner on Nov 30, 2008 4:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Upcoming teams on OU's Non-con schedule in the coming years....
Miami
Florida State
Tennessee
Notre Dame
Ohio State
Home and away. Other than Miami, that’s only an away game since we played them at home last year.
by TexasSooner on Nov 30, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can you say MOOOOOtivation?
I think this is the best thing that could possibly happen for NEXT year’s team. This was a preparatory, building year. UT vastly exceeded expectations. Now, for a full year, we’ll have this gigantic CHIP on our shoulder to help MOTIVATE the team not to make mistakes, not to come out flat, not to take our foot off the opponents throat. This is what I’ve noticed this year with MusCHAMP. The mistakes, fumbles, screwups that were typical in ‘06 and ’07 were gone this year, and the only real problem we had, after playing the gruesome 4 game stretch, was we ran out of gas for a half in Lubbock. And we actually came back. But then I don’t blame Blake Gideon. Or the other secondary folks. Why was TT in that position to begin with? Because of a 35+ yard kickoff return, that’s why. And why did a 35+ yard kickoff matter? Because UT didn’t come to play until halftime. So anyhow, that’s all old news, but it’s an important lesson to teach to a young team. You can’t come out flat. Even if you’ve played all the gauntlet games and won them, you still have to come at it every game because you’ll never know when you’ll need it. And we needed an extra 5-8 yards, an extra 6-8 seconds, an extra look by Colt to not throw the Pick 6 to Charbonnet. See, there’s plenty of stuff to go around. But they’ll learn from that, and they won’ t let it happen again.
Now, we’ve got a young, hungry team that has been tempered by all this experience, won a bunch of great games, lost one but not by much, and had the system make them pay with a slim to none chance at the national championship that nobody (except probably the team themselves) gave them in the beginning.
So, now, would YOU like to play THIS team in the FIESTA bowl? Would you like to face the UT team (ok, some folks are going to graduate, but a great many folks are coming back) on your schedule next year? Best move Bobby Petrino ever made was begging Arkansas off next year. I predict right now that UT will be the biggest College Football Juggernaut ever seen, next year. WOE be unto those who UT plays next year…. It should be extremely gratifying. Now all we have to worry about is keeping Colt healthy.
by calonghorn on Nov 30, 2008 5:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
No moaning and groaning
Let’s go to the Fiesta or wherever and win. In a year Texas was picked by the experts to win eight games this team won eleven. we are going to a BCS game and are now second in all time wins. I am proud of this team and what it has accomplished. See you in Tempe.
by 71grad on Nov 30, 2008 5:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Problem as I see It.
Is There a 12 SEC South and a 12 SEC North? Not that i’m the greatest college football fan, but I do love my horns. Just saying, why can’t we just have 1 conference like everybody else and the best 2 teams can play heads up, that way TX would be playing OU. Seems like the Big 12 North is just a penalizer on the rest of us and I don’t see other Conferences sectioning off like that. correct me if i’m wrong.
by LonghornsPwn on Nov 30, 2008 5:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
No groaning, but "zero" U and it's entire fan base can go to hell
I bleed orange and always will! However, just today, I’m gonna have a “piss” party. 45-35 enough said! As for TexasSooner, why don’t you get off our blog and go “gloat” on the little crimson and cream blog? We don’t need and frankly don’t want your ass here “bloomer schooner”
hookem
by Scubasteve3195 on Nov 30, 2008 5:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Problem as I see It.
Yeah LonghornsPwn, there are divisions within the SEC as well. East and West. Bama from the west and Gators from the east.
In my opinion you are right, however, the two best teams should play, period. This has been a complaint within the SEC for years, as they consistently have problems such as those faced by the big 12 this year, where one loss can completely screw a team.
As for all of this “45-35” enough said, it’s just as easily turned around:
39-33 enough said.
or
65-21 enough said.
When it comes to a Mexican standoff like this, where every team has lost to the other, it has to be settled by points. If the only criteria for going to the championship is head to head play, then TX has to concede to Tech. Straight up, you lost to Tech head to head. So if that is your criteria then they have to go above TX. But then, OU beat the living crap out of Tech head to head so they should go. But then, TX beat OU head to head…. and on and on. It is cyclical. Unfortunately it came down to end of season strength of schedule and wins against the worst teams in the Big 12 (A&M, and Baylor) at home, cannot compete with beating number 11 in the nation, on the road, by 20 pts, when they havent lost a home game all season. Sooners earned it in a roundabout way.
But I completely agree that it should be a TX vs OU championship game. Let the two best teams play for the title.
by BoomSoon on Nov 30, 2008 6:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
yeah, cool
i heard there is scenario where OU could possibly play UT again, we’ll see i guess
by LonghornsPwn on Nov 30, 2008 6:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
TX v OSU
Also, another one of the millions of things to throw into the mix…
TX beat OU by ten points, but only took OSU by 4! In Austin!
by BoomSoon on Nov 30, 2008 6:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
alotta that has to do with style I think
some styles match up better against others
by LonghornsPwn on Nov 30, 2008 6:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Look at the margins against Kansas
and then come talk to me.
by ctex80 on Nov 30, 2008 8:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Face it we got hosed!!!
As a team the Longhorns have been getting done all year!! Offense, Defense and Special teams!! All the experts have been going on and on about Oklahomas Offense!! What about their Defense and Special teams have been stinking it up all year!! The voters did not take that into account when voting!!???!!?!?!? Also What’s up Lou Holtz?!?!? Everytime I hear him he has something negative to say about the Horns!!??!!? I guess back in the day when he was coaching the Hogs, we must put it on him!! Hater!!!! 45-35!!!
by TexasStateHorn on Dec 1, 2008 9:28 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
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