Assignment for lawyers (and anyone else interested in rules)
I know a lot of lawyers read this blog, and I think one of us should investigate this post on ShaggyBevo (I would, but I'm swamped through next week, which will be too late).
In a nutshell, the posters think they have found an error in the BCS rankings. They think that OU's 2008 probation might make it ineligible to be ranked in the Coaches Poll, and that the American Football Coaches Association has been erroneously including the team in this year's polls.
There's probably nothing to it, but someone with a few minutes to spare should take a look.
All comments, FanPosts, and FanShots are the views of the reader-authors who create them.
1 recs |
22 comments
Comments
Is this the restrictions from the Bomar controversy?
by BlinkOneGun on Nov 30, 2008 8:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
This is at
the bottom of the coaches poll on the actual USA today site:
“The AFCA prohibits coaches from voting for schools on major NCAA probation.”
I assume the distinction is in the “major” probation.
Here’s the link: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/usatpoll.htm?DB_OEM_ID=9300
by tdwalsh on Nov 30, 2008 8:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
They should define "major"
Straight from the NCAA website:
INDIANAPOLIS—-The NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions has penalized the University of Oklahoma for major violations [emphasis mine] in its football program.
These violations involve three football student-athletes receiving payment for work not performed at a Norman, Oklahoma automobile dealership. The impermissible benefits totaled approximately $17,000 in unearned wages and led to the committee finding that the institution failed to monitor the employment of football student-athletes.
…
The committee stated in its report that, “although this case centered on a few violations involving three student-athletes, the committee finds this case to be significant and serious [mine] for several reasons.” These reasons include the value of the extra benefits provided by a booster; the fact that the violations continued over several months, which led to two of the student-athletes competing while ineligible; and the university had appeared before the committee only one year earlier for a case in which the committee found that the institution failed to monitor the men’s basketball staff’s telephone contacts with prospective student-athletes.
…
In determining the penalties, the Committee on Infractions considered the university’s self-imposed penalties and corrective actions. The penalties, some of which were self-imposed by the institution and adopted by the committee [mine], are as follows…
It appears major and NCAA-imposed to me.
by amorphous on Nov 30, 2008 9:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing to see here. They’ve historically only left off schools that are ineligble for the post season. Also, I think it is more policy than bylaw.
by A-Tex Devil on Nov 30, 2008 8:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
What do you mean by
“ineligible for the post season”? Bowl games? Spring practice? Participating in other sports? This should probably be obvious, but I’m not familiar with NCAA and AFCA rules and policies.
by mikey 4 on Nov 30, 2008 8:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also this at another site:
The USA TODAY/CNN Board of Coaches is conducted with the cooperation of the American Football Coaches Association and in conjunction with the American Football Coaches Retirement Trust. By agreement with the AFCA, teams on major NCAA or conference probation are ineligible to be ranked.
Again, it looks like “major” probation is the rule, ou’s must be minor probation or something similar.
by tdwalsh on Nov 30, 2008 8:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Its unfortunate to me
that there has been no fall-out from that car-dealership scandal. Two years later, the sooners are back in the National Title game. They seem to get caught about twice a decade for violations, but as this season’s success proves there are no real, meaningful consequences, I expect they shall continue to disregard the rules.
The NCAA needs to grow some balls. I’m wondering, what would be the effect of a monetary fine, as opposed to diminished scholarships? If schools are willing to jump through hoops to make it to a BCS game for $18 million, what if the NCAA poses an $18 million fine for major violations? Would that be incentive enough for OU to clean up its act? Probably not, but at least perhaps something good may come of the money.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 30, 2008 8:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
OU Penalized for MAJOR violations
This post was rather intriguing to me. I found a article on the history of OU and probation. At the bottom, it read:
“And then the latest July 11, 2007. The NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions has penalized the University of Oklahoma for major violations in its football program.” Is it me, or is the word major used?
http://www.gnextinc.com/ousoonersblog/2007/07/ncaa-lays-law-down-to-oklahoma-sooners.html
What does this all mean? I have no clue
by TexasEx01 on Nov 30, 2008 9:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
OU and Probation
I copied and pasted:
OKLAHOMA CITY — "Oklahoma must erase its wins from the 2005 football season and will lose two scholarships for the 2008-09 and 2009-10 school years, the NCAA said Wednesday. The penalties stem from a case involving two players, including the Sooners’ starting quarterback, who were kicked off the team last August for being paid for work they had not performed at a Norman car dealership. The NCAA said Oklahoma was guilty of a "failure to monitor" the employment of the players.
Oklahoma President David Boren said the university will appeal the NCAA’s "failure to monitor" finding and the ruling that Oklahoma must erase the wins from the 2005 season. Oklahoma has 15 days to notify the NCAA in writing of any such appeal.
The Sooners went 8-4 and beat Oregon in the Holiday Bowl to end the 2005 season. Records from that season involving quarterback Rhett Bomar and offensive lineman J.D. Quinn must be erased, the NCAA said, and coach Bob Stoops’ career record will be amended to reflect the erased wins, dropping it from 86-19 in eight seasons to 78-19.
Oklahoma also will have two years of probation added to an earlier penalty, extending the Sooners’ probation to May 23, 2010."
Is this not major? If not, I don’t know what is!!!!!
by TexasEx01 on Nov 30, 2008 9:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Can this further be investigated by a lawyer, Mack, someone?
I’m no PhD or NCAA expert, but I am seeing the word major in many of the articles I read. However, I’m sure this would have been noticed last year as they played in the Big 12 Title game.
by TexasEx01 on Nov 30, 2008 9:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
But last years appearance in the title game
was not entirely dependent upon BCS standings, and therefore independent of poll rankings.
by amorphous on Nov 30, 2008 9:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Major Violation vs Major Probation
It sounds like there may hve been ‘major’ violations, biut nowhere do I see that OU is on major probation. Given that they are eligble for post-season play, I think that they are most likely not on major probation.
by drycreek on Nov 30, 2008 9:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't see
anywhere where the NCAA classifies probations as “major” or “minor”. This must be an AFCA classification (probably one maleable enough for them to do whatever they want while making the self-serving statement that they don’t rank teams on probation while the AP does).
by tdwalsh on Nov 30, 2008 9:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
2000 Election
This is starting to remind me of the 2000 election. We don’t like the result, so we’ll take it to the courts to get us what we want.
by drycreek on Nov 30, 2008 9:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
We have a much
better law school than OU, so this might work.
by tdwalsh on Nov 30, 2008 9:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Except that
no one has taken anything to a court.
by mikey 4 on Nov 30, 2008 9:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
From what I read...
From what I read, the team has lost two scholarships through 2010 and has forfeited all games won in 2005 including the bowl game. So if they are bragging about winning a bowl game in 2005, that game has been forfeited and they did not win it. But they do not appear to be violating any post season games.
by gy2020 on Dec 1, 2008 12:08 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Grasping at straws, people.
Invisible straws.
by billyzane on Dec 1, 2008 9:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
The only thing that stands out is that the NCAA “extended” the current probationary period. It wasnt the football team that was on probation to begin with. It was the basketball team thanks to Kelvin Sampson who went on and did the same thing to Indiana.
So perhaps the University itself or athletic department is on probation and not the football team and only if the team itself is on probation does their privilige of being rated in the Coaches Poll become lost. Otherwise, the OU Football team could have been ineligible to be ranked in the coaches poll if say the Lacrosse coach made improper phone calls. Because the original probation that was “extended” had nothing to do with Football.
It is also possible that the Coaches poll changed that rule to participate in the BCS. Otherwise the coaches have the power to arbitraily exclude teams based on their own opinion about who should be eligible. I cant imagine that would be allowed by the BCS.
by imakefights on Dec 1, 2008 5:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

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