Notify Big 12 Commissioner Dan Beebe of Your Displeasure
Feel like venting about how much you hate the Big 12 tiebreaker that no other conference with a championship game uses? Write to the Big 12 commish:
Commissioner Dan Beebe
400 E. John Carpenter Freeway
Irving, Texas 75062
about 1 month ago
GhostofBigRoy
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of course, it's a bit more convoluted
but it’s a part of the process elsewhere.
by CrossCyed on
Dec 1, 2008 9:23 PM CST
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One key difference, at least as far as the Horns are concerned:
The tied team with the highest ranking in the Bowl Championship Series Standings following the last weekend of regular-season games shall be the divisional representative in the SEC Championship Game, unless the second of the tied teams is ranked within five-or-fewer places of the highest ranked tied team. In this case, the head-to-head results of the top two ranked tied teams shall determine the representative in the SEC Championship Game.
by crackaTX on
Dec 1, 2008 9:31 PM CST
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From a Sooners fan...
I apologize for copying and pasting, but because I had the opportunity to read this article I thought you all should too.
"In the eternal struggle of man versus machine, man failed miserably Sunday.
That’s not to say that the right team won’t be playing in the Big 12 Championship Game on Saturday. The Oklahoma Sooners argued their case eloquently.
They said nothing.
No rented planes circling over Austin. No phone-ins from Bob Stoops in the middle of Mack Brown’s Thanksgiving dinner.
Just football. Just a 61-41 victory in hostile environs over a No. 11-ranked archrival.
The Sooners’ decisive win Saturday over Oklahoma State was as significant a road victory as any team in the Big 12 Conference achieved this season.
There’s your tiebreaker.
As myopic Texas fans — and their head coach — conveniently decline to acknowledge, there was a three-way knot, not a two-team tie, atop the Big 12 South standings.
Why should a single game played Oct. 11 decide everything? Why not a game played Nov. 1?
Yet, over and over again over the past two weeks, Brown had filibustered for voters not to forget his Texas team’s October victory over the Sooners.
Never mind, he seemed to say, that just one week ago Oklahoma took apart a then-undefeated, No. 2-ranked Texas Tech team by 44 points — the same Tech team that beat Texas on Nov. 1.
Never mind that the Sooners’ season ledger included nonconference victories over TCU and BCS-bowl-bound Cincinnati.
Longhorns fans countered by trumpeting their Oct. 18 — what is it about October? — win over the Missouri Tigers.
Oh, right. The team that Kansas beat.
In the end, what could Brown have done for me?
He could have just shut up and allowed his team’s memorable 11-1 season do the talking for all of Longhorns, Inc.
Instead, Brown began to show up on TV more than that Geico lizard. The poor-taste clincher came Saturday night when he agreed to be interviewed in the middle of the Oklahoma-Oklahoma State telecast.
Why didn’t Oklahoma do that, Stoops was asked Sunday?
“I was asked to be on the Texas game Thursday,” the OU coach said, “and I said no. I didn’t want to do it. I didn’t think it was right.”
Stay classy, Austin, Stoops was saying, without mentioning any names.
But as Stoops and the Sooners saw, Brown’s politicking for his team worked. The Longhorns gained ground in both of the human polls.
Go figure. Texas, playing at home, defeated a vastly disappointing Texas A&M team 49-9 in a game that Colt McCoy was still quarterbacking in the fourth quarter.
Oklahoma, meanwhile, playing on the road, knocked off the No. 11 team in the nation — and yet lost ground in the human polls to the Texas poor-us campaign.
“It was the campaigning. I don’t think there’s any question,” said Jerry Palm, whose CollegeBCS.com Web site is the bible for all things BCS.
For all the whining, in other words, about computers and formulas and BCS rules, the human element continues to be the bug in the equation. The same thing happened in 2004 when writers and coaches, after Brown again had politicked all week, leapfrogged Texas over Cal in the final poll and sent the Longhorns to the Rose Bowl.
Everyone seems to complain about the so-called “BCS computers,” but as Stoops said, "They don’t have agendas. They don’t have loyalties. They don’t have opinions. They don’t have all the bias that everyone else does.
“And if you say no one else does, I don’t think you’re being truthful.”
When the numbers were finally added, Stoops thinks that the strength of Oklahoma’s schedule likely was the determining factor that will send his team to Kansas City next weekend.
It’s probably not going to make TCU feel any better, but the Horned Frogs might well have sent the Sooners to the national championship game.
“For people to continue to want to play out-of-conference games that people want to watch and go to and be excited about,” Stoops said, “there has to be an incentive. Otherwise, just schedule four wins and move on down the road. You could almost schedule a bowl game by that.”
If Texas wants to blame anyone today, it needs to blame the guy that scheduled Florida Atlantic, UTEP, Arkansas and Rice. Similar cream-puff scheduling cost undefeated Auburn a title game shot in 2004.
This time, fortunately, the six BCS formula computers cut through the rhetoric.
They judged the football, not the filibuster. And Oklahoma came out the winner in more ways than one."
GIL LeBRETON, 817-390-7760
I know some of you Horn fans are taking this all like champs but for all of you whiners, this one’s for you……Go Sooners!
by EnragedOUfan on
Dec 1, 2008 9:37 PM CST
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Those games are scheduled way in advance. FAU won the sun belt last year, ark was cotton bowl team…its just hard to say what team will be good when. This time the schedule worked against us. And my ass Big Game Poopy Stoopy took the “classy” way and didn’t politic. Anyone remember what Stoops was saying after they beat Tech. And then the next day, and the day after that? Finally on Tuesday he decided that enough was enough and he wasn’t going to say OU should go to Big12 game. Mack never once said we should go over Tech or OU. He was just there to remind people that everything doesn’t revolve around Stoops and his philosophy of never taking his foot off the petal, so he can impress voters who don’t actually watch football but instead just look at the box scores…You stay classy OU
by bignick573 on
Dec 1, 2008 9:58 PM CST
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45-35
is the tie-breaker, and just about everyone in America agrees.
by Longhorns84 on
Dec 2, 2008 10:55 AM CST
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I didn't bother reading the whole thing...
but after that first sentence or so, did it mention anything about how the only reason you’re going is that “classy bob” ran the scores up in every game?
If not, then it was a waste of pixels, really. Everything you need to know is that we’re the better team and we have incontrovertible proof.
by Pflash on
Dec 1, 2008 10:02 PM CST
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This guy spins it almost as hard as Stoops
Look, I appreciate that Sooner fans don’t like to hear from Mack, especially when he has the nerve to do so during Bedlam. But to claim that Stoops took the high road and refused to politick because he’s just too classy suggests some very selective listening. The mere fact that Barry said so refutes its veracity.
As for non-conference scheduling, I certainly grant you that it worked out in OU’s favor this year. But Texas played home & home with Ohio State in 2005 and 2006. And TCU last season. And nobody from I-AA. And nobody who went 0-11. Non-conference scheduling, done half a decade in advance, is a crapshoot. Using it as a basis to criticize Texas is grasping at straws inside a glass house.
Any fan of Texas, OU, or Tech who feels resolute that their team alone deserves to represent the South division is suspect… and if you listened to Mack, he simply said all 3 teams were deserving, while pointing out that the Horns beat both the great teams playing the Bedlam game. He didn’t point out that Texas was the only team without a home game in the Texas-OU-Tech round robin. He didn’t mention that Texas lost on the last play from scrimmage, while OU was dominated in the 4th quarter and Tech barely showed up. It isn’t Mack’s fault, it’s just the nature of the flawed beast. I would expect any head coach of a BCS contender in a similar situation to be an advocate for his kids.
by crackaTX on
Dec 1, 2008 10:14 PM CST
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Let's get this straight
I absolutely agree with everything you said except your very first statement. It’s not like Mack Brown called ABC and said “let me talk to your national audience right now!”. ABC’s producers contacted Brown.
If anybody thinks that Stoops would’ve said “no thank you, I feel that Texas deserves all the attention right now” instead of working as hard as he could to bring attention back to OU, then they are one naive idiot.
by poolman87 on
Dec 2, 2008 3:22 PM CST
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ok, I had to laugh...
“The mere fact that Barry said so refutes its veracity.”
so true…
by Pflash on
Dec 3, 2008 3:18 AM CST
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"They said nothing."
Are you kdding me? I recall several interviews with Stoops and others from the OU camp all week long and late into the night on Saturday spouting their view on things and why OU should be ahead. Stoops recited his line that Tech should be ranked ahead of Texas due to the head-to-head lots of times.
I don’t mind that they did that, but please don’t try to convince us that OU wasn’t politicking like the rest of the coaches. OU had as much class as any other team out there when it comes to whining about why they should be ahead.
by drycreek on
Dec 1, 2008 11:49 PM CST
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You still don't understand, do you?
You’d be saying the same things as us if you were in the situation.
Think about it: the argument really was between Texas and OU; if you had actually looked at a poll beyond where UT and OU were, you’d notice Tech was not in the discussion of the BCS-reliant tiebreaker since they fell to 7th or whatever it was. For all practical purposes, Tech was out of the BCS discussion, and it’s not even arguable.
Texas and OU: Two teams with equal records, playing in the same division of the same conference. One beats the other during the regular season. That winner should be ranked ahead of the loser, correct? You can try to dispute that as much as you want, but you can’t. The entire basis of OU’s argument relied on a game they didn’t play in, in which Texas lost to a team who eventually fell out of the discussion (as evidenced by the fact that every single publication, and therefore every voter, was debating UT vs OU, not UT vs OU vs Tech).
So chew on this for a second: what if Tech had somehow stayed in the discussion and the voters kept them high enough that they finished ahead of both Texas and OU, thus sending them to KC? What would be your reaction? Perhaps something along the lines of “But we beat them! Just because they beat the team that beat us doesn’t make them better than us!! We beat them head to head!!”
Maybe now you’ll understand where we’re coming from.
And as far as the politicking is concerned, a coach in Brown’s position would be stupid not to draw attention to his team. He’d be absolutely torn apart if he sat back quietly and let things happen without reminding people what his team had accomplished. You can’t deny that. And you can’t say Stoops would be quiet if put in that position. It’s well known voters have a pretty short memory; what’s wrong with reminding them about what happened before they ate dinner?
by BigTexBD on
Dec 2, 2008 12:00 AM CST
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Get Lost...
Here’s to hoping the doctor’s accidentally operate on Bradfords’ other hand.
by bevo4president on
Dec 2, 2008 6:59 AM CST
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"The Sooners’ decisive win Saturday over Oklahoma State was as significant a road victory as any team in the Big 12 Conference achieved this season."
Bwah hah hah hah
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
by Caradoc on
Dec 2, 2008 9:43 AM CST
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Do NOT act like Bob Stoops wouldn’t have been screaming about the head to head if the roles were reversed. That is bull, and there isn’t a coach in the Big XII that is less classless than Bob Stoops. He filibustered just as much, pointing at the 40 point win over Tech. Stoops does plenty of lobbying, and Mack Brown could have just as easily left his first stringers in games and let them win by 20 or 30 in their blowout games.
And don’t point to strength of schedule. All-in-all, the UT SoS was HARDER than the Sooners. And if you think that OU believed that Cincinnati was going to be the winner of the Big East before the season, then you’re crazy.
There is a reason that it’s not just Longhorn fans that are up in arms over this situation.
by poolman87 on
Dec 2, 2008 2:45 PM CST
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Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, kiss my ass. Kiss his ass. Kiss your ass. Happy Hanukkah.
Just let your souuuuuul glo, baby....feeling oh so silky smooth...
by TNHorn on
Dec 4, 2008 12:40 PM CST
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Big Xii tiebraker, BCS, Texas Tech, Oklahoma state, the fiesta bowl
All of these things they suck its true, but none suck more than OU
by acho81 on
Dec 1, 2008 10:21 PM CST
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I was thinking....
Several high-profile coaches (Mack, Tuberville, Carrol, Stoops, etc.) have come out for a playoff. One brave conference commissioner, MIke Silve, of the SEC, did as well. One group where no high profile leaders have joined the playoff ranks, so to speak, are the college presidents.
Maybe, we should start writing to Mr. Powers to push him to be the first.
by the1austin on
Dec 1, 2008 10:48 PM CST
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Just wondering.....
….what happens if we change the tiebreaker to that of the SEC and Big-Ten. Then a few years later we lose a tiebreaker using the new SEC version.
The only problem being that if the old Big-XII rule was in effect, the tiebreaker would be ours! What then? Does the entire Longhorn nation whine and bitch to have the tiebreaker returned to 2008 status?
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on
Dec 2, 2008 12:07 AM CST
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My beef, personally
Is that the BCS is being used to determine who wins the conference (or division, in this matter) when it shouldn’t be up to the BCS to do so. It should be something that is controlled entirely within the conference. But with the current tiebreaker, a random journalist in Boston/Seattle/LA, etc, who doesn’t give two shits about the teams involved and doesn’t watch them play will help determine their fate. It really isn’t fair to everyone involved. I would have no problem losing a tiebreaker, just as long as it’s fair.
by BigTexBD on
Dec 2, 2008 12:20 AM CST
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Ditto
Using the BCS also bring into play non-conference schedule which, despite ours averaging higher in some computers, is OU’s biggest claim for a higher ranking, even though the discussion, while ultimately leading to a national championship game appearance, is totally about which team is the division champion. Non-conference has nothing to do with this.
If you're so sure of what it ain't, how about telling us what it am!
by circa1015 on
Dec 2, 2008 1:01 AM CST
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Thank you
Somebody finally got around to pointing out that this flaw in using the BCS to determine championship game particpants and division winners!
by jhwutx74 on
Dec 2, 2008 8:13 AM CST
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Well
Does the entire Longhorn nation whine and bitch to have the tiebreaker returned to 2008 status?
It’s not just limited to Texas fans; half the fun of the CFB and BCS universe is about whining. Just look on the interwebs.
Also, at what point do you need to change your sig, HC? Apparently, it is just another game.
by jc25 on
Dec 2, 2008 10:20 AM CST
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So how will this....
change satisfy you? SEC’s tiebreaker uses the BCS score to determine which of the three teams is eliminated first. Then the head-to-head results of the remaining two teams determines the champion.
Either way the BCS score is used to determine the tiebreaker.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on
Dec 2, 2008 10:26 AM CST
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BCS is used, yes
But it’s not the determining factor; the head-to-head result is.
by BigTexBD on
Dec 2, 2008 6:47 PM CST
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Not if....
you are the first team thrown out of the tiebreaker.
What happens if the SEC version of the tiebreaker works against us in the future? Are we then going to reverse our position?
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on
Dec 7, 2008 2:49 PM CST
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BCS v. PLAYOFFS
i take this from the great dale hanson here in dallas. (well it is paraphrased)
what would a playoff due for college football and the regular season games?
well going into the last week of the season 4 games OU v. OSU, Tech v. baylor, auburn v. alabama, and florida v. florida state all had huge meaning and drew large audiences and fans cared about these games. in a playoff system almost all the favorites are already in the the 8-10 (or however many team bracket) playoff which takes away the importance of these games.
a playoff system would as well make the OU v. t.u. game not as important.
while I agree the BCS has it’s flaws and should not decide a conference champion i do believe it is better than a play-off system.
Texas A&M 2009 BIG XII Champions
"Hey, I think it's easy for guys to hit .300 and stay in the big leagues. Hit .200 and try to stick around as long as I did; I think it's a much greater accomplishment. That's hard."-- Bob Uecker
by dmurphnextrusygreer on
Dec 2, 2008 8:16 AM CST
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The "Importance of the season"...
is SUCH a lame argument.
If the season is so fucking important in the BCS…WHY IS TEXAS SITTING AT HOME?
How important is the Red River Shootout this year, dmurph? Why is the winner sitting at home if the game is SOOOOOOOOOOO important.
And would you rather watch tech v. baylor or alabama shutout auburn than to watch Texas, OU, Florida, Alabama, USC, and the other great national teams duke it out to see who the best is. Seriously, I cannot STAND that stupid argument. And this year shows how little the season ultimately matters in the BCS system.
by poolman87 on
Dec 2, 2008 2:53 PM CST
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missed int v. tackling on the 5 yard line
make the play and quit bitching
"Hey, I think it's easy for guys to hit .300 and stay in the big leagues. Hit .200 and try to stick around as long as I did; I think it's a much greater accomplishment. That's hard."-- Bob Uecker
by dmurphnextrusygreer on
Dec 2, 2008 3:30 PM CST
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Butthurt Ag
Yeah, that really shows that your initial argument is correct. You’re just upset that your team constantly takes steps backwards. Have fun in the Big XII cellar. Thank god the Longhorns will never know how that feels.
And it’s REALLY hilarious to hear an Ag say “quit bitching”. Maybe the most hypocritical thing I’ve ever heard.
by poolman87 on
Dec 2, 2008 3:34 PM CST
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stay classy my longhorn friend
i think you are the only one that brought up A&M v. t.u. or any comparisons.
none of my opinions have been based on that i am an aggie fan as i am rooting for a OU v. t.u. match-up in miami!
"Hey, I think it's easy for guys to hit .300 and stay in the big leagues. Hit .200 and try to stick around as long as I did; I think it's a much greater accomplishment. That's hard."-- Bob Uecker
by dmurphnextrusygreer on
Dec 2, 2008 3:39 PM CST
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...
what? you’re really not good at this whole: “making a point” thing…are you?
by poolman87 on
Dec 2, 2008 4:13 PM CST
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poolman87
you aren’t seeing that there is hypocrisy in your argument as well. One of the reasons I CAN’T STAND a playoff system is that it chooses to value certain wins over others.
What if we had a playoff in place, and Texas met OU in the second round? OU is ranked higher, so they get us at home. Now suppose OU wins it in overtime and advances. Then we, as a football culture, would have chosen to value that game more than the game played in October. So although we would be 1-1 against each other, and our body of work in the series would be stronger (as we would have the more solid victory at a neutral location while they won in overtime at home), Oklahoma would advance. What would that prove?
I can honestly say that such a scenario would piss me off far more than what transpired this week.
by BrooklynHorn on
Dec 2, 2008 6:08 PM CST
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BCS v. Big XII tie breaker
i dont think you should blame the BCS blame the conference for the tie breaker. your are not sitting at home for a BCS bowl
"Hey, I think it's easy for guys to hit .300 and stay in the big leagues. Hit .200 and try to stick around as long as I did; I think it's a much greater accomplishment. That's hard."-- Bob Uecker
by dmurphnextrusygreer on
Dec 2, 2008 3:35 PM CST
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which is why...
The article gives the address of the Big XII offices…
by poolman87 on
Dec 2, 2008 3:36 PM CST
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as well
if OU v. t.u. was played again this saturday on a neutral field and you had to put your entire paycheck on the winner who would you pick???
i think the answer would be about 75% for OU
"Hey, I think it's easy for guys to hit .300 and stay in the big leagues. Hit .200 and try to stick around as long as I did; I think it's a much greater accomplishment. That's hard."-- Bob Uecker
by dmurphnextrusygreer on
Dec 2, 2008 8:18 AM CST
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Wrong
OU’s defense is worse than before and Texas’ is better.
by JohnsonUT on
Dec 2, 2008 8:45 AM CST
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t.u.
Tulane University?
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
by Caradoc on
Dec 2, 2008 9:45 AM CST
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What?
Imagine how you’d feel if you’d beaten Texas by ten points earlier in the year, and then the Texas fans spent the rest of the season telling you how they were “actually a better team” that “puts up more style points”. We wouldn’t be doing that because it would be ridiculous to argue that your team is “actually better” than a team that beat you on a neutral field.
(Bear with me, I know that the above scenario is hy-po-the-ti-cal and will require some serious brain power to compute. You may want to get a sheet of paper out, gather your Sooner buddies and write down some thoughts while you attempt to process that.)
Texas got jobbed by a Big XII tiebreaker rule that will be changed this summer. The fact that the rule is considered by all to be a LOOPHOLE that will be shut should indicate that the the results of the situation do not reflect reality. This would not have happened in any other conference…so what does this lead OU Nation to do…be humble? Admit that Texas might have been a better team (like Bob Stoops stated in October in Dallas)? Realize that they snuck in to the title game?
The thing that has bothered me most about this whole situation are the Sooner fans coming out to say that Oklahoma is actually a better team and would beat Texas if they played again. That’s TERRIBLE logic.
Enjoy having that irrationalism used against you in the future. Now that head-to-head matchups don’t settle anything, don’t expect me to respect a future Sooner win over the Longhorns, because it would obviously prove NOTHING. Even if Texas loses to OU in the future and they end up with the same conference record, interpretations are to be entirely subjective from now on.
Enjoy embarrassing the Big XII AGAIN in your bowl.
by brownf on
Dec 2, 2008 10:51 AM CST
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dmurphnextrusygreer is an aggy
His team won’t be bowl-bound for the foreseeable future, but they have the moral victory for this week at least.
by horndude on
Dec 2, 2008 1:52 PM CST
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+1
its basketball season in aggieland!
"Hey, I think it's easy for guys to hit .300 and stay in the big leagues. Hit .200 and try to stick around as long as I did; I think it's a much greater accomplishment. That's hard."-- Bob Uecker
by dmurphnextrusygreer on
Dec 2, 2008 1:56 PM CST
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so you agree...
your team won’t be bowl-bound in the near future?…that’s something we can agree on
by vy til i die on
Dec 3, 2008 12:16 PM CST
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I have my money on...
Texas…Our pass rush is too much for Bradford right now. Kindle gets there at the same time as Bradford releases the ball, and Bradford goes down hard.
by BlinkOneGun on
Dec 2, 2008 12:05 PM CST
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who cares?
That’s not the way this works. You don’t get to say “we would win that game again if we played it over”. That’s not the point. And when would OU’s D stop Texas this time? You think OU can handle a team that won’t let them score 6 straight times? Even with all their O, the OSU game was close.
by poolman87 on
Dec 2, 2008 2:54 PM CST
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lol
I actually am at work right now and i work on john carpenter fwy in irving. I may just have to go down there in person and express my discontent. Or maybe ill toilet paper the building…
by Stg2Wrx on
Dec 2, 2008 8:21 AM CST
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you'd have my approval. and tons of laughs along with it..
i’m not upset about the possibility of this new potential rule screwing us, i’m very upset that other conferences thought about this possibility and didn’t do anything about it before hand. That said, things usually have a way a figuring themselves out right? I’ve got one of those gut feeling(instincts) that Mizzou can pull this off. I just feel it. Call me crazy, but i just have a hunch that a Horns team with such a great season won’t be screwed out of the title game. Hook Em. and Go Mizzou.
by jacobb23 on
Dec 2, 2008 12:28 PM CST
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those feeling set up for a let down
i had that feeling before A&M played OU and t.u. man were my feelings wrong.
Boomer sooner!
Go Gators!
national championship rematch between OU and t.u. and settle the debate on the field!
"Hey, I think it's easy for guys to hit .300 and stay in the big leagues. Hit .200 and try to stick around as long as I did; I think it's a much greater accomplishment. That's hard."-- Bob Uecker
by dmurphnextrusygreer on
Dec 2, 2008 12:50 PM CST
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