I Say Adios, Big 12 and Hola, Grande Catorce
by Bull Horn on Dec 5, 2008 1:21 PM CST
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PrintFirst time, long time here. Like all Horns, the thought of Saturday’s conference "championship" between 2 teams we've already beaten convincingly has taken me through the stages of grief this week. It also got me to thinking. You know, the kind of thinking that your wife/significant other might call obsessive-compulsive disorder. It’s enough we have to suffer through our hated rival taking our spot in the title game(s). But watching Barry “Couldn’t Find the High Road Even With a Garmin Stuck Up My Ass” Switzer smirk through the BCS standings and listening to Stoops taking thinly veiled shots at us during his presser made me sick. Sick and tired. Of the Big 12.
I’ll admit this sounds like a “Take Our Ball And Go Home” rant, and let me say I’m aware of what the Big 12 has done for us since the lil’ SWC crumbled. Recruiting, national exposure, and relevance have all gone way up. I get that. But I also happen to think it could be even better. How? By telling the Okies and their Big 8 cronies to suck it and hitting the road to the Big 10. Yeah, I know, it’s been talked about before. Kinda crazy? Not if you think about it…and seems to me we have more reasons to do it than not. So, please bear with me as I share my vision (I apologize in advance for its length – insert double entendre joke here):
Since the power brokers at the Capitol made us take the Ags with us to the Big 12, let’s assume we'll have to take them with us. Sorry, Tech and Baylor, but this time you're left on the porch. Ann Richards and Bob Bullock (RIP to both) ain’t walkin’ through that Capitol door this time. Y’all can stay back and recreate the SWC if you’d like. Let North Texas in while you're at it. Or, stay put and let the Horny Toads and Ponies replace us. I don't care.
Only problem with taking the Ags (besides the obvious) is it leaves the Big 10 unbalanced (remember they're actually the Big 11 right now). So, we take Mizzou with us too. They’ve always wanted to join the Big 10 anyway. Plus, geographically it makes sense - they can serve as a bridge between the north/south gap.
Now you've got a 14 team super conference with more money and clout than even our hayseed cousins in the SEC. Premier athletic programs? Got it. Good academic fit? Got it - UT, A&M and Mizzou (along with Colorado) are the only ones in the Big 12 that can match up academically with Big 10 institutions. And, most important in the big biz of "amateur" college athletics, you've got TV sets. Lots and lots of TV sets. Mizzou brings the Kansas City and St. Louis markets. We bring Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and Austin. Add that to what the Big 10's already got (Chicago, Detroit, Minneapolis, Cleveland, Cincy, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and Philly), and maybe WE will be telling the TV execs what time we're going to kickoff (only night games in Austin until November, thank you very much).
Once we bolt with the Ags and Mizzou, Colorado probably jumps to the Pac 10 (maybe they'll bring BYU or Utah with them). That leaves the Diminutive 9 with those major markets of Okie City, Tulsa, Omaha, Des Moines, and Topeka. Good luck on negotiating your next TV contract without us. Maybe they'll pick your games up on Telemundo and drop in subtitles so you can understand the announcers.
Well, with so many teams in the new Big 14 (I say we call it the Grande Catorce), we'll obviously have to split up into divisions. Here's what made sense to me:
West Division - Texas, Texas A&M, Missouri, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin
East Division - Michigan, Michigan St., Indiana, Purdue, Penn State, Northwestern, Ohio St.
This set up allows the conference to maintain traditional rivalries within each division (Horns/Ags, Minnesota/Wisconsin, Iowa/Minnesota, Michigan/Ohio St, Michigan/Michigan St., Penn St./Ohio St., Indiana/Purdue). Only one that's left out is Illinois/Northwestern, and I don't think anyone cares about that one anyway. It also creates some new rivalries - natural (Mizzou/Illinois, Mizzou/Iowa) and super-power smackdown (Texas/Michigan, Texas/Penn State, Texas/Ohio State). And yes, we'll have a championship game in football, using the SEC tiebreaker.
Now sit back and think about what that does to the Horns' football schedule. With 12 games to fill, we could play all 6 of our division foes and a rotation of 4 from the East. Throw in 2 non-conference games (we can open with Rice every year - Mack and DeLoss like playing them - and continue to kick Okie ass in Dallas), and here's what you'd be looking at:
Rice
Illinois
Mizzou
Iowa
Okie U in Dallas
Minnesota
Wisconsin
pick 4 between Michigan, Ohio St. Penn St., Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern, Michigan St.
Ags
Not too shabby, huh? Beats the heck out of Baylor, Okie State, Kansas, K-State, Iowa State. Too cold for the football team? They're already traveling to Nebraska, Iowa, and Kansas. The northern teams will also have to adjust to the heat down here in September/October, so that's a wash. Plus, we'll actually be competing with other schools who require their players to read and write.
Basketball will be much more interesting, too. Lots of good matchups there. Wisconsin, Michigan State, Ohio State, Indiana (once they recover from Kelvin Sampsonitis), Purdue, Iowa, Michigan, Illinois. The only sport that might suffer is baseball, due to weather issues. We’ll get used to it, and maybe adjust the schedule somewhat to factor in the weather by bringing teams down here in February/March. The NCAA has already delayed the start of the season to favor the cold weather teams anyway.
Travel really isn't much of an issue, as we already have to travel north frequently. And with the increased revenue from our ginormous TV contract, that won't be too much of a concern.
Why not the SEC? Well, they DON'T require their players to read or write - which is the reason we didn't go there in the first place. Why not the PAC 10? Time difference. Nobody wants to stay up until 10 PM waiting for us to kickoff or tipoff against Washington State. Not to mention the Grande Catorce has more appealing matchups.
Well, there you have it. Makes sense to me. I say we have DeLoss announce it on ESPN precisely as they're giving Okie U their "championship" trophy on Saturday night. And Darrell Royal can be by his side, giving a big one finger salute to Switzer and Stoops while a big ticker runs along the bottom of the screen announcing the birth of the Grande Catorce and the death of the Big 12. Adios, Big 12, Hola, Grande Catorce. Hey, I don’t get a Big 12 title this year, so let me dream.
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Bravo!
"Football's so important in Texas. On the West Coast, it's a social. On the East Coast, it's a culture. Here, it's a religion."
-- Major Applewhite
er, i second the motion
seconded just sounds weird
I disagree with you here
only night games in Austin until November
I like the mid-day hot hot hot kick-offs.
It's a Horns' world. Even Aggies play hoops with a burnt orange ball.
Awesome
I would love to see that happen.
by LonghorninRaiderland on Dec 5, 2008 2:58 PM CST reply actions
Is the Latino population big enough in the existing Big 12....
to get the “Grande Catorce” to catch on?
We could also go with the Mean 14 or the Dream 14.
Or try to strike fear into the backwards Southerners simply with the name “Middle Eastern Conference”.
Or perhaps the “Flyover Fourteen”, whose acronym would make for allusions to the badass Tomcat figther jet.
My idea
Just go ahead and create the real superconference.
Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Florida, Ohio State, Georgia, Bama, LSU, Penn State, Michigan, Nebraska, and a team to be named later (Miami? Tennessee? VA Tech?).
We tell everyone else to go screw themselves.
The name of the conference? Texas and Friends. Why? We’re Texas, that’s why.
by Meekrob on Dec 5, 2008 3:10 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
there's an idea
The initial post is a bit far stretching – and let’s face it not going to happen. If a restructuring of the conferences really happened involving the big 10 I think part of it would include Penn State going to the big east so that they could have some natural geographic rivalries as part of their annual schedule.
OK, but onto meekrob’s idea – this is phenomenal. If they want to say the regular season is like a playoff then actually make it that way. Include the teams who would be involved in an actual playoff. They could set it up like the english premiership does soccer. Bottom 2 teams each year get dropped down and replaced with the top 2 teams of the semi-super conference (you’re 2nd tier teams). Then, come bowl season there wouldn’t be any reason for contreversy etc. NICE!
Changes in the conferences aren't the solution.
The conferences are the problem( plus the people who run them and the bowls and those who run them). The pro sports have the right idea, One league, two conferences and then an even number of divisions. Then you get easy to set up playoffs and in the end a single champion. Even then if one division is overloaded with good teams there are problems.
The real problem is the disjointed way the conferences and bowls are set up. I don’t see how you can ever change that. Think of all the tens of thousands of people who work for those groups and the hundreds of millions of dollars they make. None of them are going to give that up or the money so all we ever gets is patches till the next melt down.
"ginormous" reminds me of high school long ago
We would call the “easier” ladies, Vaginormus. High school kids can be bastards.
Perhaps the most recognizable mascot in sports, and certainly the toughest looking, Bevo is a fixture
by run Bevo run on Dec 6, 2008 12:37 AM CST up reply actions
This is a neat toy to think about...
… so I’ll throw in my two cents: You’ve screwed the East Division. Michigan, tOSU and Penn St.? The West has Texas and Wisconsin (meh). Mizzou isn’t going to be competitive in that conference. Plus, can you imagine the disaster that would occur if we got Michigan, tOSU and PSU on our Eastern schedule? If that happens in a down year, that’s going to likely be two losses minimum (assuming all three of those teams won’t be awesome at once). Plus we’d have to play OU and Wisconsin, possibly in Wisconsin. Yikes. The divisions need to be evened out.
Well written and thought out, but come on...
So the 5th tiebreaker which decides the Big 12 South champion in the case of a 3-way tie has a flaw that turns out to be disadvantageous to Texas and you are all on board with changing conferences? It sounds a lot like a “take our ball and go home” rant because it is one.
We dominate this conference off the field and really only one team has the ability to challenge us year-in and year-out for dominance on the field. A Big 12 team has played in the BCS national championship game 5 out of the last 8 years (’00, ’01, ’03, ’04, ’05) and it will be 6 out of 9 after this year. Sounds pretty good to me.
It’s fun to think about hypothetical possibilities and everything, but this reeks of sour grapes.
by billyzane on Dec 5, 2008 8:47 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Just keepin' it reals, yo.
That’s a phrase, right? People say that? Like the kids these days? Right.
So you want to burn down the barn?
Please check your meds. Here’s another pipe dream…OU-Nebraska stay in the North (Big 8 rivalry), Arkansas leaves the SEC and joins Texas in the South (SWC rivalty). Call it the Baker’s Dozen Conference because your biscuits are done.
You’re gripe is really that the Big 12 can’t be as dominant a conference as the Big 10 (and hence, garner greater respect of TV/Coaches/Sportswriters (i.e., the BCS)? Have you watched any games at all this season? Did you follow where Gameday went?
The answer isn’t leave to the Big 12. It’s to continue building up the conference. OU, Texas, Missouri, OSU, Texas Tech — and soon Nebraska gets back into the mix… I’d much rather watch a conference that trots out nationally ranked teams on a weekly basis, than a weak conference that only has 3 teams and 2 games anyone gives a damn about… Ohio State-Michigan and Penn State-Michigan.
Put it another way, why help the Big 10 when we’re already better? The fact is the Big 12 has been very good for all it’s members. No one can dispute the conference is much stronger than the SWC and Big 8 were alone and allows the teams to command as good or better TV contracts and coverage as the SEC, Big 10 , Pac 10, or anyone else you care to name. The answer is keep Texas winning, keep the conference winning, improve recruiting for all schools and we’ll dominate the polls and TV like the SEC has done. Take a look how many times a Big 12 or SEC team has been in the Championship Game since the BCS started and you’ll see what I mean.
In the last 10 years: (wins / appearances in BCS title game)
Pac 10 1 / 2 (both by USC)
Big 10 1 / 3 (all by Ohio State)
ACC 2 / 6 (last appearance 2002)
Big 12 2 /6 (2008 result pending)
SEC 4 / 5 (2008 result pending)
BCS National Championship Results
1998 Tennessee (SEC) beat Florida St. (ACC)
1999 Florida St. (ACC) beat Virginia Tech (ACC)
2000 Oklahoma (Big 12) beat Florida St. (ACC)
2001 Miami (ACC) beat Nebraska (Big 12)
2002 Ohio State (BIg 10) beat Miami (ACC)
2003 LSU (SEC) beat Oklahoma (Big 12)
2004 USC (Pac 10) beat Oklahoma (Big 12)
2005 Texas (Big 12) beat USC (Pac 10)
2006 Florida (SEC) beat Ohio State (Big 10)
2007 LSU (SEC) beat Ohio State (Big 10)
2008* Alabama or Florida (SEC) vs. Oklahoma or Texas (Big 12)
The answer is keep building on what you have. ’Nuff Said.
i love the idea
Texas does not belong in conferences with those dumpy ass schools.
And I think Texas WOULD consider it for the money potential alone. The media markets outside of Austin are just abysmal, and it’s not like Austin is huge. Who knows when this could be possible, but I don’t find it that far fetched somewhere down the road.
We are all frustrated but this isn't the answer...
While it is fun to speculate about such matters, especially since we feel mistreated right now, this plan, even if possible, is full of traps and potholes. First, apparently some of the animosity the other Big 12 schools have for UT is that they saw us as having a sense of entitlement and throwing our considerable weight around when the Conference was formed. The animosity we sense in the Big 12 today would be nothing compared to what we would get in the Big 10 should be come into an existing conference and start dictating who we bring with us, divisional allignments, schedules, game starting times, when our baseball team had to play in the cold, etc. Second I think you too easily dismiss the effects of a team from Texas goinmg from playing maybe 1 or 2 games a year in the cold to playing maybe half its games in cold weather. Third, while you have set it up that we should have a lock on the division, do you want to have to play Ohio State, Penn State, or Michigan every year to win the conference? Fourth, as several others have pointed out, the Big 12 already has more respect than the Big 10, and with another year like this, may finally surpass the SEC in national reputation. Finally, as others noted, the problem is mainly with the 5th tie-breaker, not the whole Big 12.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
I like the big XII
they just need to get better rules so we don’t have these idiotic problems.
In the big XII the horns get to beat on the Aggies and OU every year (and even Baylor is getting better). Does anyone really care about a bunch of Yankees anyways? If you throw out Ohio St. and USC all you have left is SEC and the Big XII as national powers. The Big 10, Pac10, ACC are really second tier conferences that don’t have enough good teams to create good competitive environment to launch a national championship team. If anything I would rather see the Horns beat up on LSU, Alabama, Florida, Tennessee, Georgia or Auburn.
As the population shifts southwards so will the talent at all these southern schools and the northern schools and their conferences will get weaker and weaker.
lol man
This is ridiculous.
If the Big 12 is full of ‘powers’ then teams like Oregon are powers too. Who exactly in the Big 12 has been as good as Oregon this decade outside of Texas or Oklahoma. Uhh?? Nobody. Big 12 is a two team race, with Nebraska capable of really getting back in the fold and Texas Tech able to make pull off the miracle every 4-6 years assuming all variables stayed the same.
Oh, and who else in the Big 12 has matched up Virginia Tech has done this past decade. Or Miami. Or hell, even Boston College?? Nobody. Mizzou – nope, not really. Kansas, nope. Iowa State, Baylor, Fighting Farmers??? Of course not. Colorado up and waaaay down. Oklahoma State some good moments but really no better than Maryland for past 8-10 years.
What exactly are you possible referring to?
It's fun to speculate
but it’s all crazy. First of all, people forget that football isn’t the only NCAA sport. Now I realize that a lot of your arguments do not pertain to football athletic supremecy but many other arguments like this do. You can’t kick Baylor out of the conference just because they suck at football for example.
When people bring up the “super conference” I just laugh…a lot. I know it’s just fun dreaming but I think it would create so many more problems than it would solve. Who gets in? If Michigan has a season like this year, do they get kicked out for a team that’s not in? It would simply center the college football problems into another venue. But it would make for some good games. :)
I don’t see Texas or any other Texas school joining the BIG 10. Simply because the games are too far away. Imagine sending all your teams to Wisconsin and Michigan every year as opposed to Waco and College Station. No way.
If there weren’t so many damn teams it would be awesome to have a simple pro sports distribution. Playoffs, no human voters or computers. Everything is on the field. Unfortunately, there are 119? teams. And as always mentioned, the “execs” will never let that happen. Ever. Maybe the fans of college football just need to boycott for a year. ;)
hell with mizzou (unless they win tonight)
put notre dame in insead (though there’s no bridging the geographic gap anymore). i’d love to beat the crap out of the irish on a regular basis.
of course, with the preferential treatment they get in south bend, and their own bcs contract, it’s a bit of a pipe dream. but, then again, so is everything else in this post.
Look Lets just all F@#$ OU.
Why has everyine given up on a hope of staying in front of Florida and kicking OUs ass a second time in one year, I know its not very likely, but one can dream……So far the stars have been aligned against us, but Karma can be a bitch cant it? At the very least, we deserve to witness an OU ass whooping in the national championship game, and who better to deliver it than us, am I right? TEXAS…………FIGHT……………….TEXAS………………..FIGHT…………………….TEXAS……………..FIGHT, OU SUUXXX!!!!!!!!!!!!
hmmm
Since the power brokers at the Capitol made us take the Ags with us to the Big 12
This is not an accurate statement.
Actually
It somewhat is. An absolutely correct statement is that the power brokers made us take Baylor to the Big 12. Legendary Texas Lt. Governor Bob Bullock was a Baylor grad, and he is he one that pushed Baylor in to the Big 12. As far as the ags go, there was discussion of them being in a different conference, but maintaining a rivalry, such as Florida, Florida State. In the end, it was thought that the best thing for the ags would be to be in the same conference as Texas, hence why they are here. The Ags needed a much smaller push than Baylor to be in the Big 12, but there was still some political pressure exerted.
by Texas Our Texas on Dec 7, 2008 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
You really think the Big 8...
…wanted to become the Big 9? I don’t think so.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Dec 7, 2008 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
You obviously didn't read what I wrote
There was more to it than that article, but as with everything, Texas was driving the ship and calling the shots. A&M was lucky to be along for the ride, and other schools (read: Baylor) were dragged in because of Bullock.
by Texas Our Texas on Dec 8, 2008 9:48 PM CST up reply actions
Other Conference Options
First of all, I think Big 12 is a great conference – but with very limited TV markets except for the State of Texas. Best thing that could possibly happen, though, is for Nebraska to start coming on, maybe Colorado, too, to soak up some of the Texas native school boys who imagine going someplace out of state is a good idea – thereby diluting the OU take.
More notes: It was my understanding that it was Governor Ann Richards, a Baylor grad, that demanded that Baylor get taken in with UT, TAMU, and TTech. If Baylor had not come along, word has it that Arkansas would have been courted hard.
Originally, one of the big plans was for TAMU to go to SEC and UT to Pac 10. If you want to consider another option for UT, then a Pac 12, probably with TAMU, would be a better option than Big 10 (which is a bunch of old, old dinosaurs that I don’t believe I’d like to see UT stuck with. SEC is probably set now at 12.
Another problem is Missouri possibly departing for Big 10 to give them a nice round 12 – but if they did, this would absolutely cut off their Texas recruiting connection, and they would revert to Indiana status pretty quickly. Iowa State is another potential defector. Not clear if Big 10 will accept a Big 12 school, perpetually waiting on Notre Dame.
All in all, however, the best thing that could happen is for the Ags to start recruiting decently again, effectively reducing the Texas recruits going north of the Red River. Since the Ags have gone south, Okie State and Missouri have started an upswing.
In this same interesting vein, is the Big 12 gonna ever get a TV contract like the SEC? ABC showed a lot of the big Big 12 games this year. Problem is, there are no big markets out there besides Texas and Missouri (with Kansas City and St Louis), so maybe something like Fox would be a more viable option. I think more TV $ coming in might also balance out the conference recruiting a good bit more.
One disagreement that leads to an agreemen...
…actually, there are big media markets in this conference outside of Texas and Missouri. Four cities in the old Big 8’s territory are among the 50 largest TV markets (led by Denver, St. Louis, Kansas City and Oklahoma City). The four Texas markets in the top 50 (DFW, Houston, San Antonio, Austin) are significantly larger than the four markets listed above. But when you go to the secondary markets, those from 51-100, there are four more from original Big 8 territory (Tulsa, Wichita, Des Moines and Omaha…omitting Colorado Springs and the Quad Cities despite their location in original Big 8 states) and three more from Texas (Harlingen—Brownsville, Waco—Temple—Bryan, and El Paso).
My point is, it’s also a wonder to me why we can’t get a TV contract on par with the SEC. I don’t have the time to do the full analysis right now, but the Texas markets at least hold their own with the Florida markets and Atlanta, and I would think the North markets and the secondary markets are on par with anything else in Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas and Tennessee.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Dec 8, 2008 12:18 AM CST up reply actions
BCS BS
This year the BCS Committee has really blown it more than they usually do. Putting Oklahoma ahead of Texas after Texas beat them is ridiculous and crazy!
Go to www.BSFlag.com/BCS – they have an email system set up to send a BSFlag right to the BCS mailbox! Check it out!
If enough people send flags to the BCS committee, maybe they will take notice, and maybe then, we the fans, can make a difference!
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