Burnt Orange Nation: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Fedor vs Rogers Results and Live Coverage

Meeting Texas-Sized Expectations: Mack Brown's Hot Seat

My response to too many emails the past six weeks has been to stick a star next to them, to be returned when time permitted. So with time finally back on my side for a bit, I was excited to receive the following email from HornBrain, who wrote for this year's annual a comparative essay on Mack Brown's record at Texas as compared with his peers local (Darrell Royal and Fred Akers) and national (Pete Carroll, Bob Stoops, Joe Paterno, Bobby Bowden, and Lloyd Carr).

You'll want to read the whole chapter in the book this summer, but for now, it suffices to note that the glaring red X on Mack's resume is his performance against Top 10 teams. With that in mind, Dustin's email and my response after the jump:

Star-divide

Peter,

I must say, doing my chapter for the Eyes of Texas has really changed my opinion of Mack.  I always thought people were exaggerating when they said Mack can't win the big game and the like, but now I'm not so sure.  You can make the argument that he's the 4th coach that you'd pick to run your program out of the six, assuming they all had equal access to talent which we know isn't true.  He'd be behind Carroll, Bowden and probably Bob Stoops.  Bob may drop a few that he shouldn't, and he's had struggles with the BCS recently, but you can't argue with the beatings he's laid into elite teams.  In fact, the only excuse you could make for his "inflated" record against top teams would be that a lot of those wins were against Mack freakin' Brown, whose teams played like crap until mid-October.  Yikes.  (This analysis excludes the obvious fact that Stoops is a whiny little s@#& and I wouldn't touch him with a 39.5' pole, to borrow from Mr. Seuss.)

So, I ask you.  You've read the article, seen the same numbers I have - what do you think?  Why didn't Mack beat a Top 10 team from 1999 to 2005?  I realize that I pointed out that he's only won one game without a Heisman trophy "winner", but I'm not using the argument that he wouldn't have won without his stars.  What I'm saying is, if Mack's such a great recruiter, why didn't we have a star bright enough to compete with the Top 10 between Ricky and Vince?  We've had the athletes, but none of them have developed.  I'm drowning in pessimism, here, Pete.  Writing that transition about how Mack has changed and blah blah blah felt like regurgitating Bill Little, and it made me want to regurgitate some Schlotzky's.  I just couldn't write an article for a season preview article that was all about how Mack is a cruddy coach.

Sure Mack's got the winningest program nationally since 1998, but I think it's pretty clear why this hasn't translated to a string of Big XII titles.  If you can't beat the top ten, you can't make it through the Big XII undefeated.  There's going to be someone along the way that will be an elite team, usually OU, and if you want to win the XII, you're going to have to beat them.  While Stoops has his problems, he can beat those good teams (usually Texas), thus giving him at least one free loss to give away to the Texas Techs of the world and still be headed to the title game.  Something is definitely wrong here, but is it Mack or Mack's loyalty to the likes of Davis?  That's the real question.  Defensively, the next two years should be some of the best we've had, but no stars are rising to fill that big black hole in the sky that Vince left 2 years ago.  So, what do you think, Peter?


I think that the ninth blog post I ever wrote, way back in 2004, was a response to a  question very similar to the one you pose today. Fortuitously, the Vince Young gravy train had just left the station at that point, making me the luckiest, happiest sports blogger on the planet for at least a full year and a half. But perhaps with last November's humiliating loss to Texas A&M we've come full circle, the Vince Young respite sufficiently historical that questions about Mack Brown's weaknesses are again ripe for discussion.

Though I'm sure my answer will be a little dissatisfying to some, at this point I am who I am as a sports analyst and I can't black-and-white these things as easily as I'd often like to. Like, say, after a Texas loss to Oklahoma. Regardless, the way Texas fans answer Horn Brain's question marks the fork in the road for the fanbase, so I'll weigh in with my own two cents.

It seems to me Texas fans are divided among three different answers to questions regarding Mack Brown's Texas track record: (1) I'm more or less fully satisfied with how Mack Brown has performed as head coach. (i.e. No change needed.) (2) I think Mack Brown has exhibited fundamental weaknesses that have precluded truly elite success without a superfreak like Vince Young, but I'm not sold on the argument that he's incapable of making adjustments/improving. And (3) I think Mack Brown is fundamentally flawed as a coach to such a degree that the top level of success is beyond his capabilities without a once-a-generation player like Vince Young.

Readers who've joined me for Texas sports talk the past four years probably know that I fall in camp two. Though I could probably write an entire book exploring all the elements of just this one question, for the Cliff's Notes version it suffices to lump my full set of reasons into two broad categories: those related to Mack Brown himself and those related to my paradigmatic view of the college football landscape (and sports) in general.

My Views on Mack

Because I've sludged through the same exasperating defeats, I have no trouble empathizing with those whose own analysis concludes in the more pessimistic view of Mack Brown's top-end abilities. However, though several of the lowest moments of his tenure pushed me right up to the line of resigned pessimism, I've heretofore resisted crossing it, in large part because I think Mack Brown is both tougher and more flexible than a lot of people give him credit for - sufficiently so to keep me out of the pessimist's camp.

For me, I think an underdiscussed point about Mack Brown is that he is both by nature and training an extremely conservative/'traditional' football coach. That's relevant to me in a number of ways. For starters, in the PB Book of Coaching Ideals, his starting point is, overall, less than ideal.1 And specifically, its various manifestations have cost Texas in the win column at times - in particular, as HornBrain notes, against the very best competition.

With that said, where I diverge from a full blown pessimist is my unwillingness to say that he's clearly hit his ceiling. To me, that view both is both inconsistent with a complete view of his track record and too definitive a conclusion for what I'd call an ambiguous set of evidence.

On the first point (his track record), I note again Mack Brown's conservative starting point. While concededly not ideal, it bears on how we evaluate his ability and willingness to make changes. I'd argue Mack Brown would not - hell, could not -  have won a national championship without enough flexibility and willingness to adapt that the VY coronation required. Even if Mack Brown needed Vince Young more than the other way around, lesser coaches would not have put it all together. To whatever extent you agree with me on that point, I think you have to credit Mack Brown adaptability points.

To put it in perspective, when Vince Young was a junior at Madison, Mack Brown was so far removed from the coach we eventually saw in 2005 that he had to be convinced by pleading assistant coaches to recruit the athletic marvel from Houston as his next quarterback. So whatever points I'd ding Mack Brown for his conservative background that very nearly prevented the Vince Young era from coming to being, I simultaneously see as evidence of just how far he had to evolve between 2002 and January 4, 2006.

To keep this post from being longer than it already is going to be, I'll refrain from laundry listing all the other examples of ways I think Mack Brown has shown that he is capable of and willing to make changes. The pessimist's response to this tends to be to note that even if he's demonstrated some ability to make adjustments, this is a question of degree. On this I agree, but to me it raises my second point: the leap to the conclusion that Mack Brown has hit a ceiling is at this time to great for me to make. The evidence seems to me a mixture of maddening fundamental weaknesses and a not insignificant willingness and ability to problem solve.

From my seat in May 2008, I have no hesitation acknowledging I've seen enough of Mack Brown to know that if he fails to identify, appreciate, and overcome some of the things that hold him back as a football coach, he has indeed more or less hit his max speed - very good but not great. I just happen to think the full weight of evidence precludes the writing in ink of the remaining Mack Brown chapters. I think he's a much tougher and more resilient SOB than a lot of people appreciate, and find the pessimist's conclusion premature. Ask me again when 2009 is in the books and I may have a different answer.

The Nature of the Beast

The discussion of the college football landscape in general and its relevance in how we evaluate Mack Brown is an enormous topic I'm not going to attempt to tackle thoroughly in this post. Instead, just a few general notes on issues worth considering when evaluating Mack Brown.

First, though the "We're Texas!" attitude ingrained in us makes it hard to fully accept, there is far, far more parity in the game than there used to be. The rich remain rich - no question about it - but they can't be tycoons like the olden days when, not coincidentally, we last saw dynasties. Though there's plenty of room to quibble about how much parity exists in the game, it's enough for now to say, first, that Mack's national best record over the past decade is worth significantly more than it used to be and, second, that in my estimation the best case position a team can (realistically) hope to be in is one in which it mops the floor with everyone against whom it's properly favored to ensure maximum capitalization in those years in which it also manges to win the games against the best of the best.2

To varying degrees, Mack Brown has done that, with a national title to show for it. The lack of elite success outside his VY window is notable, and as discussed above, if Mack fails to make appropriate changes during the twilight of his career, his VY moment may be his only crowning moment. But even that wouldn't undermine the point that the best case scenario in college football as it exists right now is making sure you're in the right neighborhood every single year. There are coaches who do that even better than Mack Brown, but I'm always a little perturbed by the extreme segment of the pessimist bloc who take the last decade for granted. Even at Texas, where we're ideally situated to achieve that position, it is far from a given. I thank my lucky stars that I was young enough that 1984-97 Texas football weren't a part of my adult life as a football fan.

Second, there's another side of the "We're Texas!" coin - our expectations for and reputation as a relatively clean program that values character and education. That expectation never has been, nor ever will be, a barrier to elite success, but neither should it be taken for granted nor considered when evaluating a coach's merits. I wrote last week about my generally cynical view of the state of amateur athletics, and though I know Texas' hands aren't perfectly clean, scuzzy business continues through the Mack Brown era to be incidental rather than endemic. I appreciate that. A lot.

Third, and perhaps most telling, the on-field standards we have at Texas are not unique. Fans at programs as richly situated as our own have the same demands as we do. And yet they all have their own list of groans about their coach and his limitations. And certainly by the standards we all hold our coaches to, not a single one passes the test. USC loses at home to the Stanford Cardinal while its reputation as a playboy mansion for the disinterested (in NCAA rules) balloons. Oklahoma fans let out collective moans of disgust after inexplicable losses to Colorado and, to a lesser degree, Texas Tech. And we could linger on OU's long history of sleaziness, but won't bother given that the fans have no demands for appropriate behavior which could be let down.

The list goes on and on, the exhaustion of which would only show that no coach has demonstrated an ability to do what it is we think Mack Brown should be doing. And even where I agree Mack Brown has plenty of room to improve, I find a pervasively pessimistic evaluation to be unpalatable.

Conclusion

I lay all that on the table as background for the points I'd make in response to Horn Brain's question:

  1. I think Horn Brain very accurately framed the top-end issue at stake.
  2. I agree with Horn Brain's pessimistic fears to the extent that I think any 'business as usual' approach from Mack Brown would continue the trend of struggles against the best.
  3. I think the question as presented is too dismissive of the value of Mack Brown's mopping the floor with non-Top 10 teams.
  4. I think that if Mack Brown has hit his ceiling, I'll count my lucky stars if every Texas coach is at least as successful. (And not sleazy.)
  5. Agree though I may with Horn Brain's presentation of the problem, I can't share in the "drowning in pessimism." Optimistic wouldn't be the right word, either, but even at the lowest moment in a long while (immediately following the A&M loss), I wrote that I was hopeful Mack Brown had it in him to shift gears. Well, I don't think you have to feel like Bill Little to like the changes we saw soon after that. While Mack's harshest critics were declaring with such certainty that he was incapable of the changes a truly elite coach would make, he started making precisely such changes for the bowl season. And when we trounced ASU and the same critics argued the win would lull Brown into complacency, he gave those critics a dose of Boom Motherf*cker, with a side of Applewhite. Mack's been left for dead many times in his career. I wouldn't count him down and out until you're absolutely sure.
  6. Finally, try to remember not just that this particular story is a familiar one at every football program with Texas-sized expectations, but that it was especially prominent right here in Austin as recently as November 2004. We were told then that Mack Brown had peaked. False.

Like I said at the outset, my thoughts on this won't exactly secure me a seat at the table of 'Around The Horn,' but I rarely find black/white, yes/no, this/that conclusions particularly satisfying. I'm pretty comfortable operating in the gray, where I can see Mack Brown's strengths and weaknesses with equal clarity.

Of course, lest anyone conclude I'm a cyborg, I should probably note that I'm greedily eyeballing 2009 as Mack Brown's next great opportunity to put together the kind of season we all want. And that if we're still talking about this at the conclusion of the season I'm so eagerly anticipating, I'll probably resign myself to counting down to Mack's retirement, so we can thank him for his good while starting to look for someone with a higher ceiling.

1 This is not to say that my prototype head coach for today's college football would be at the other extreme. Some elements of Mack Brown's conservative nature and training serve him very well and are characteristics the ideal coach would possess.

2 Given the large number factors involved in determining the outcome of a single game between two more or less evenly matched teams, many of which are beyond the reach of the capital 'T' Team (not to mention the coach), which team wins the particular game that actually unfolds is at least in part a product of the fickle mistress that is variance. Again, we could spend a book's worth of material talking about this.

2 recs  |  Comment 77 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Great read PB

I think you hit the nail on the head with your final point

Finally, try to remember not just that this particular story is a familiar one at every football program with Texas-sized expectations, but that it was especially prominent right here in Austin as recently as November 2004. We were told then that Mack Brown had peaked. False.

I could not agree any more

by blazzinken on May 19, 2008 3:21 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's not just about conference titles

It has been more than a little disappointing that Texas has only played in 2 Big XII title games in Mack’s era and only won 1 of those. But what exactly does that mean?

I think it’s worth noting that as long as Texas and OU are not only in the same conference but the same division of the conference, it is going to be exceedingly difficult for more than one of those teams to accomplish anything notable (i.e. winning a conference title, getting into and winning a BCS game) in a given year, and 9 times out of 10, it is going to be the team that wins the RRS. You lose that game, the rest of your season doesn’t matter unless you think that hoping someone else loses “matters.” You can lose to Baylor, and it won’t hurt you as much as losing to OU (vice versa for the Sooners).

Mack’s inability to beat OU on a regular basis is his biggest failure, IMO. People place too much emphasis on conference titles. With the way the BCS is set up, you can play for (and presumably win) the national title without winning your own conference. Hell, OU actually LOST the conference title game in 2003 and still played for the national title, while a team that Texas beat during the regular season was crowned “conference champion” and played in a BCS bowl that Texas should have been playing in. Instead, Texas was relegated to the Holiday Bowl (where they promptly lost to Washington State).

My point is, I don’t think you can ignore any of this when you’re discussing Mack’s lack of conference championships. The system is flawed in that it assumes that the winner of the north and the winner of the south are automatically the best teams in the conference, which is rarely ever true. But the fact that Mack can’t seem to beat Oklahoma at least 50% of the team has hurt Texas a lot more.

by bassale47 on May 19, 2008 6:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Now I realize I should not write things like this so early in the morning because that barely made sense, but I guess my point was that my frustration is not so much about conference titles. The only thing that really bothers me about not winning more conference titles is that I know that’s something that opposing coaches pound into recruits’ heads when trying to dissuade them from committing to Texas.

And I realize of course that beating OU, in most years, means playing for the Big XII title, so the two kind of go hand-in-hand. If you beat OU and still don’t play in the championship game, it means you lost to someone else you shouldn’t have, which is entirely different issue that Texas hasn’t really had to deal with yet. But I think it all starts with not being afraid of Bob Stoops. If Mack and his staff can manage that, then I think the rest will take care of itself. Honestly, seeing Will Muschamp’s defense walk into the Cotton Bowl to play OU is one of the things I’m most looking forward to this season. He doesn’t exactly strike me as the type of guy who gets intimidated by anyone, and that’s something the rest of the coaching staff could stand to get on board with.

by bassale47 on May 19, 2008 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

for the record

played in 3, won 1. you’re probably forgetting that we got destroyed by nebraska in 1999 when Major had a god-awful game. i’m fairly certain the other two are seared into all of our memories forever.

by billyzane on May 19, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Major never had a bad game

The rest of the team must have let him down. He was the greatest QB of all time and Chris Simms is the Antichrist.

by Wells on May 19, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couldn't agree more. Major would have been better off playing 1 on 11 in that game.

And how can anybody question Major’s greatness after that TD in the Colorado Title game where he called out the CU bench. If only Simms had gone to Tennessee….

by the1austin on May 19, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no

I’m glad that Chris Simms chose to come to Texas. In the late 90’s Tennessee was one of the top football programs in the country and Simms chose TEXAS. I still think Major was the better QB, but I’m not gonna crap on Simms because he competed like hell to get that QB position. Hell, I don’t blame Simms at all for that whole rotating QB mess, I blame the coaching staff.

He’s a Longhorn, he’s a stand-up guy and after the whole spleen incident in Tampa, I have a massive amount of respect for the guy.

by cheevyjames on May 20, 2008 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't know about the1austin

but I was trying to be sarcastic.

by Wells on May 20, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sarcasm, etc.

Maybe you should just give up on the sarcasm since it’s rather juvenile and adds nothing to the discussion at hand.

Mack is coddling, loyal to a fault, and a less-than-average X’s and O’s game day coach, but I’ve been convinced to table my calls for his reassignment pending the outcome of the much-anticipated ‘09 campaign. In the meantime, I’m hoping Muschamp instills a dramatic attitude change for the defense, if not the entire team.

BTW, I find the Phil Fulmer comparison which follows this post very interesting….

by brentmcd on May 20, 2008 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Funny
it’s rather juvenile and adds nothing to the discussion at hand.

Funny, I feel the same way about most of your posts.

by Wells on May 21, 2008 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree to disagree, i suppose

you see the glass half-full; i see it as half-empty

by brentmcd on May 21, 2008 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The similarities are pretty striking if you look at Mack Brown’s 10 years at Texas and Phillip Fulmer’s first 10 full years at Tennessee from 1993-2002 (plus the two games he coached in 1992):

Brown: 103-25 record, 3 division titles, 1 conference title, 1 national title, 1 Heisman runner up (Young), notable futility against division rival Oklahoma

Fulmer: 101-25 record, 3 division titles, 2 conference titles, 1 national title, 1 Heisman runner up (Manning), notable futility against division rival Florida

Fulmer has gone 44-20 since, with two more division titles but also an inexplicable 5-6 season. Now, I don’t expect Mack to turn in a 6-6 season out of the blue, but then I didn’t expect it from Fulmer either.

It’s impossible to know where Brown’s tenure will go, but I just find it interesting that the closest comparison to Texas under Brown is the other UT: Tennessee.

by Year2 on May 19, 2008 8:17 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Correction

Actually, Fulmer coached 4 games in ‘92, not 2. That brings his record up to 103-25, identical to Brown’s.

by Year2 on May 19, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does everyone remember the look....

Mack Brown had in his eyes at the start and through the duration of the 2007 Holiday Bowl against Arizona St. ???
Who knows why he had that look. Was it anger? Was it fear-induced? (another Holiday Bowl like against Washington State)

Thats what we need every game. That killer instinct that the players can smell in the air. It has influence that sends a strong message. “It is time to man up. Kill or be killed. No chickenshit childish sideline soldier boy dancing bullshit. Win dammit!”

"I asked Darrell Royal, the coach of the Texas Longhorns, why he didn’t recruit me and he said: "Well, Walt, we took a look at you and you weren’t any good.
- Walt Garrison

by 512 on May 19, 2008 9:08 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Mack knows how to survive
Mack’s been left for dead many times in his career. I wouldn’t count him down and out until you’re absolutely sure.

Not sure if it’s a good thing or not, but Mack will do everything he needs to do to survive as long as he wants to.

by billyzane on May 19, 2008 9:41 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you there.

What’s scary about it is whether Mack knows he’s on the hot seat and is doing exactly what it takes to get out, or if he wants (really wants) to win another NC. Did he do all this just so we can continue our ten win streak? We shall see. I’m hoping for 11 wins this year. That will be your first sign.

--Horn Brain--

by Horn Brain on May 19, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe your first sign...

...will be if Texas mops the floor with Florida Atlantic.

by Austin180 on May 19, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, that's our MO.

You beat the crap out of a bunch of nothings on your schedule so that you have good numbers and averages and all that, but you don’t go to the BCS, you don’t with the Big XII, you don’t beat OU, etc, etc. That’s what I want to see change. Instead of biding our time between title shots by going to the Holiday Bowl, we need to be biding our time in the BCS bowls. Yeah, I know that the only bowl that matters is the NC, but you can’t tell that to a recruit when you call him to ask if he’s made up his mind after your great December bowl win and he replys “No, not yet, I’m waiting until January to see OU’s bowl”. Sure, they’ll probably blow it and look stupid again, but everything is not hunky-dory.

--Horn Brain--

by Horn Brain on May 19, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know what I want to see change

losing. I don’t ever want to do that again.

by Wells on May 19, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is it unrealistic?

Is it unrealistic to expect Mack to beat OU? If we beat OU like they’ve beaten us, we’d be the ones winning the XII every other year.

--Horn Brain--

by Horn Brain on May 19, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unrealistic

no, but it might be to say that we should be making it to a BCS game every year.

Going 2 and 7 in the Stoops era sucks, and it is why we have gone to less BCS games than OU. I would love to see that change, but that does not mean that I am going to poo poo the second best coach in longhorn history or even wish that we had Stoops instead of Mac. The upside of winning more does not equal the downside of sleaziness and corruption that is a Stoops program.

by Wells on May 19, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

No one said we go to the BCS every year.

I’m talking the difference in making it 2 times and 5 times, here. OU has gone to the Holiday Bowl as well, but they’re expected to do better. This isn’t extremism. I don’t think you should “poo poo” other peoples opinions about coaching as long as they’re valid and their arguments are well represented. I’m backing this up with considerable research, research that I originally expected to vindicate Brown’s tenure. I’m not calling for Brown’s head, here, either. Just saying that it could be a possibility if he doesn’t show that he’s got what it takes in the near future.

As far as switching Stoops for Mack:

(This analysis excludes the obvious fact that Stoops is a whiny little s@#& and I wouldn’t touch him with a 39.5’ pole, to borrow from Mr. Seuss.)

I don’t want that either, and a large part of why he’s so slimy to me is because of all of the sleaziness about the OU program. Coaches have done as well as Stoops or better with comparable reputations to Mack. It shouldn’t be presented as “You can dominate college football and cheat, or you can play fair and lose to OU.” Domination and cheating are not hand-in-hand, and I certainly never said I would be willing to put up with being a cheat to win a few more BCS games.

--Horn Brain--

by Horn Brain on May 19, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I took
Instead of biding our time between title shots by going to the Holiday Bowl, we need to be biding our time in the BCS bowls

as going to a BCS bowl every year.
I am not trying to poo poo your opinions, but I see less opinions and more hyperbolic rhetoric in your comments (maybe this is because I have not seen your research and it will be different once the book is out).
I agree it should not be an all or nothing decision here, and I think a discussion, with a conceit to where we are in the history of UT football currently, of what needs to change to flip it around and beat OU 7 of the next 9 years is a good one to have.

by Wells on May 19, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you admit we go to the Holiday Bowl every year?

haHA! It was all a ploy! Dastardly beyond even the great ploys of Mr. Sweed!

Sorry if I seemed pissy, I just take exception when people make it seem like someone who’s not all about Mack Brown is condoning cheating and dastardliness because they think Stoops is more successful.

By the way, Mack has beaten Stoops 3 times, counting 1999. We’re 3-6 against the Crimson Grinch.

--Horn Brain--

by Horn Brain on May 19, 2008 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I mean MOP the floor...

...like 56-3, not sweep the floor like 21-13. You remember how Mack accused us all of being on suicide watch after the Arky State nailbiter? We were right. Nothing was accomplished during the offseason. Mack was trying to cover his PR ass. And we wound up with another Bill Little ten win season. And a consolation bowl game.

And the look on Mack’s face at the ASU game? I posted then and I’ll say it again. Yelling at kids on gameday does not make up for poor coaching during the week. Especially when you are yelling at the kids you didn’t start.

Mack just got honored with a UT Chair in something that has nothing to do with football. He’s contractually here as long as he wants to be. We can only hope that the athletic department is planning ahead for a talented and worthy successor. Who would that be?

I applaud the hiring of Muschamp and Applewhite. I think the energy of youth is sorely needed in the UT coaching ranks. I only hope they are allowed to COACH and not just be overruled by the old, conservative establishment.

There, flame away.

by Austin180 on May 19, 2008 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like the Grinch reference in the email. Bravo!

It's a Horns' world. Even Aggies play hoops with a burnt orange ball.
Is it football season YET?

by Speedway on May 19, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mack Second to None

First let me commit Texas blasphemy and state that I believe Mack’s role as an educator and a high profile leader of a proud academic institution are more important than Big XII tiltes. It is on this front that Mack and JoePa lead the nation. The impact he has in developing these players as men and players is dramatic – and even in the darkest year – he has produced sterling student athletes like Okam, Lokey, Griffin etc. Mack is the face of this program – period. And in that respect – I will take him over Stoops any day.

by realmccoy on May 19, 2008 9:44 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

My thoughts

In my humble opinion, Mack Brown’s lack of success in big games is due to three factors:

First is lack of development by players after they arrive on campus. Yes, they become better conditioned and more familiar with the system, but their skills do not seem to improve. Maybe this is because Brown likes players coming from top Texas programs, who have already had the benefit of good coaching and good facilities and therefore have largely ‘topped out’ by the time they come to UT. I can’t think of any other explanation why so many top recruiting classes have produced so little. Lots of solid players, but few game-changing playmakers and that’s who make the difference in the big games.

Second is offensive and defensive schemes that seem to be aimed at trouncing inferior competition rather than going up against the best. Given our cowardly scheduling, this makes a certain amount of sense, but you would think by now that it would be clear that to beat Oklahoma you need to include the necessary tools in your toolbox. Our defense has been a high pressure attack that aims to throw the opponents for losses but at the price of giving up big, big gains when it breaks down. Our offense, on the other hand, has been so timid and predictable that anyone with the personnel to match up is going to stop us.

And third, Brown is as poor a sideline coach as any I’ve seen. His clock management is pathetic. He has no clue when to go for two. He does not control the sidelines. (Hi, Chris). But it is his general demeanor that worries me the most. You don’t see him briefing players on what to do when they go into the game. You don’t see him working with the unit that is not on the field. You do not see him celebrate success. What you do see is him pacing the sidelines, whining about the officiating, and shouting at the players on the field. Even his ‘new attitude’ at the ASU game was little more than a prolonged tantrum. In short, nothing he does projects the leadership needed to get players to raise the level of their game.

But he’s a great recruiter, you say. Yes, we get good players. The main state school in Texas should, thanks in no small part to the UIL. But we do not get top players from out of state and we very rarely get the best of the best in state. (VY being the noted exception.) Compare our recruiting classes to Oklahoma or USC. So my question for those who tout his recruiting ability is how does he do it? What does he say or offer to sway the decision of player that was not headed here anyway?

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.

by Caradoc on May 19, 2008 10:13 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Mack

does fairly well with clock management, (USC, Michigan, ok state). but he has his bad days as well like with A&M last year as our rally was killed when we ran out of time.

by Hook'em13 on May 19, 2008 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mack

Mack has the same amount of National Championships as almost all of the coaches listed (except Paterno). Carroll only has one trophy.

by Longhorns84 on May 19, 2008 10:44 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Paterno has two unified titles, Bowden has two unified titles, and Carroll has one unified and one AP title. Stoops has one unified title and Lloyd Carr has one AP title. That puts Brown on par with Stoops, slightly ahead of Carr, and behind the rest on raw numbers of national titles.

by Year2 on May 19, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I find it...

.....hilarious that the same Longhorn fans who want to feign as if Pete Carroll’s split championship is something less than a NC are also the same fans who strongly grasp at our 4 Nat’l Championships, including the 1970 UPI #1 awarded prior to the bowl games. What is good for the goose, is good for the gander.

--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---

by HornChamps on May 19, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Distorting history

Longhorns84, you’re making an unfortunate habit of distorting history to support a point.

It just destroys your credibility and, where there’s a legitimate point to be made, undermines it.

--PB--

by Peter Bean on May 19, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What does Mack have to do this season to silence his critics?

Everybody has their own expectations, but if I see these 5 things, I will be happy.

1. Blowouts against the weaklings: The non-conference schedule is downright weak, as it was last year, so there should be a 56-6 romp (or two) in there. No nail-biters against C-USA teams can be tolerated again.
2. A close OU game.: Sadly, I don’t expect a win, but Texas better show up to play.
3. Play the best players: He says he is going to do this, but will he? If UT loses a game or two with their best players on the field, that is one thing, but losing a game or being uncompetitive in others with second rate players on the field is quite another. No loyalty here, play the best players you have at every position.
4. Beat A&M. Nothing justifies three in a row to little bro. A third straight loss to the ags might be worse then a blowout loss to OU…. might be…
5. Defensive Aggressiveness: I want to see a big hit or two. I would do anything to see a Horn get 10 sacks in a season. In college football, you are going to give up points and big plays, but nothing justifies UCF scoring 30+ or Stephen McGee looking like Troy Aikman.

For the sake of my sanity, I didn’t get into Greg Davis improving… at this point I have no hope that its possible. I am fully expecting a year of wasted talent, inability to use Chiles as even a decoy, WR screens, sideways running plays that barely get back to the LOS, short yardage meltdowns, and our leading WR having 44 catches for 462 yards since they all came on WR screens. I also love it when he puts McCoy at WR. NIce Greg, way to go 10 on 11 since McCoy is no threat outside the pocket in any possible way. Sad that the new trick he had last year, after having 8 months off to improve his offense, the best thing we got from him on opening day was using McCoy as a punter on fourth and long. Dammit, better post now….

by the1austin on May 19, 2008 11:20 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Thanks for the answer, PB

A good one, too. The only thing I still have a question about is this:

...in my estimation the best case position a team can (realistically) hope to be in is one in which it mops the floor with everyone against whom it’s properly favored to ensure maximum capitalization in those years in which it also manges to win the games against the best of the best

This is essentially the difference between Mack Brown and Bob Stoops. While Mack does a good, nigh on great job of beating teams that he should (past two years not withstanding), Bob Stoops does a good job of winning big regular season games that impress the voters. Bob’s fault is his stunning propensity to cough up a hairball against the Colorados and the Boise States, while Mack’s fault is his inability to beat elite teams, usually including Bob’s Sooners. The question is which route is more productive?

The first thing I look at when answering this question is what has been the general outcome, what you would expect in a given year, from each coach. Each year, most people expect OU to beat its rivals and end up in a BCS bowl with another Big XII championship, while most people (most people are not Longhorns fans, in case you haven’t figured that out yet) expect Texas to lose to OU and play in the Cotton or Holiday Bowl. Poll those same people and have them predict the record of each team, and I’ll bet you’ll get about the same answer for each team most years: 1 or 2 losses. Why, then, does OU go to a BCS bowl but not Texas?

The reason is simple: Inexplicable losses to bad teams get glossed over as anomalies, non-indicative of the true level of performance expected from a team, while beatings from your biggest rival on center stage “prove” that you aren’t as good a team as you would have been had you won that game. The obvious implication is that beating good teams is better than beating bad ones. If Texas and LSU are both 11-1, Texas losing to OU and Florida losing to 7-5 Auburn, but beating Georgia, I’ll have to take Florida for my bowl game, because they’ve shown they can play good football. Also, it should be mentioned that there are obvious conference title benefits in giving a loss to the best team in your division. As is usually the case, OU and Texas have the same conference record, but because of Mack’s inability to deal with Stoops, Stoops gets a free loss to Tech or Colorado or whoever. This is the difference between spending your time between titles in the BCS and in December bowls. This is the difference between Bob and Mack, so far as I can tell. Except for Bob is the Grinch.

--Horn Brain--

by Horn Brain on May 19, 2008 12:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

HB, you completely overthought this one:

“Why, then, does OU go to a BCS bowl but not Texas?”

B/C OU typically has held the tie breaker per the head-to-head match up, which sends OU to the conference championship game. Once there, all you have to do is kill the sacrificial lamb from the north division – historically an easy task – and you get your automatic BCS birth. Losing to a ranked team is rarely the reason that you don’t get to a BCS bowl.

by Brandon 97 on May 19, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well of course

Obviously you’re right, but what I’m pointing out is that in this case it’s better to beat the best teams and drop a few to the have-nots than to dominate the cupcakes and drop your toughest game, the tiebreaker being one of those reasons. Hence:

Also, it should be mentioned that there are obvious conference title benefits in giving a loss to the best team in your division. As is usually the case, OU and Texas have the same conference record, but because of Mack’s inability to deal with Stoops, Stoops gets a free loss to Tech or Colorado or whoever.

--Horn Brain--

by Horn Brain on May 19, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe,

but I still think that you are overcomplicating this.

I will give you that the cupcakes are more likely to drop other games along the way, which means that you don’t have to worry about them in a tie breaker. However, I don’t think that you can blanketly extend that to say that it is better to lose to a cupcake than to a goliath.

Assuming that we are talking about conference play, a loss to a cupcake is only “better” if you still hold the tie-breaker against the team that you lost to. So you have to count on that cupcake losing more conference games than you do.

This scenario is pretty specific to the TX & OU – where for the last however many years, you have had two juggernauts in a division with some “also participating” schools. In that case, where you have two heavy favorites, the (conference) season comes down to the one game between the goliaths. This is the situation you described.

If you have a conference with much more parity, then a loss is a loss is a loss. The best example of this that I can come up with is the 1994 Southwest conferece – whatever the second to last year was (help me out here 54b, I know that you were on that team). That year, the SWC had about 5 teams tied for the conference title. That year, it didn’t matter whom you beat, or who beat you. Each loss was more or less equivalent.

For an opposite example, see 2005 tOSU. They lost to Texas, and to Penn St, and still managed to whip ND in the Sugar Bowl.

by Brandon 97 on May 19, 2008 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree completely

I was talking about the specific case of the XII South in my argument. I don’t give a flying flip about what LSU needs to do to win the SEC every year. Still, even in a league with more parity, say the SEC West, you’d love to (in retrospect, of course. No one wants to lose any games ahead of time.) have lost to Ole Miss at the end of the year and beaten anyone else who’s any good. This comes from the fact that if your only loss is to someone not tied for 1st in your division, then you are going to your conference CG.

--Horn Brain--

by Horn Brain on May 19, 2008 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The thing that makes me optimistic...

is Mack’s willingness to surround himself with whoever he thinks will help him win games (is Davis an exception to this? Maybe), i.e. the Muschamp hire. I think Mack is aware of his own weaknesses and wants to overcome them rather than ignore them, and tries to fill his staff with the most talent available.

But the Greg Davis thing? Possibly another weakness of Mack’s, in the form of loyalty. Like the way he will play the seniors more often than the more talented young guys. But I also think Mack beleives that Davis is a great offensive coordinator that he can win with. And he’ll hire anybody else he needs to help him win, and I think these hires can help rejuvinate a stagnant team.

by hornbone on May 19, 2008 12:34 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Best quote from PB's article:

“[T]he best case scenario in college football as it exists right now is making sure you’re in the right neighborhood every single year.”

Abso-freaking-lutely. Any coach, or honest fan, will tell you that winning a championship requires a lot of tallent, and a lot of luck. The best that you can really do is set yourself up to be in the discussion every year.

by Brandon 97 on May 19, 2008 12:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

But are we in a better neighborhood than Stoops?

That’s the question. See my long comment above.

--Horn Brain--

by Horn Brain on May 19, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Better neighborhood?

No, nobody is in a better neighborhood. But we are in the same neighborhood, which again, is about all you can ask for.

by Brandon 97 on May 19, 2008 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How do you see us in the same neighborhood as OU?

By that I mean, how do you see Bob’s run since 99 versus Mack’s? I’ll grant you that we’ve won most of our bowl games while Stoops has lost his major ones (one big exception in 2000), but look past that. Mack, given the same bowls, could have done the same or better. The difference is Bob has had several more opportunities for greatness than Mack has had. Are you of the mindset that a bowl is a bowl, unless it’s THE Bowl?

--Horn Brain--

by Horn Brain on May 19, 2008 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely not.

Obviously there are better bowls. I would much rather watch us play in Tempe than in San Diego, or anywhere else.

The big 12 is guaranteed 1 BCS bowl birth, which goes to the conference champion. Over the years that you cite, the winner of the big 12 has almost always been the winner of the TX/OU game – simply b/c those two teams have been the stronger teams in the conference. If TX doesn’t win there, then they are on the ouside looking in at participating in the conference championship game, and then have to hope for an at large bid.

My point is that Bob’s “opportunities for greatness” stem directly from his record against TX, which gave him the inside track to the conference title, and to better bowls later on. If you beat a team in a head to head match, you inherently have an advantage in conference standings over that team, simply based on the head to head tie breaker.

Now, I will give you this: you are more likely to need that tie breaker against OU than you are against Baylor – which means that it is more important. Read that how you want, whether it is better to lose against Baylor than OU or whatever. The point is, if you want to get to the better bowls, you have to win the conference (which usually translates to beating OU).

By same neighborhood, I am saying this: at the begining of the season, sit down and pick which games your team has a legitimate chance at winning. This isn’t upsets, or bad games, it is just games where you are at least as good (on paper) as the other team. If the realistic expectations for your team are roughly equivalent to the realistic expectations for the other team, then you are in the “same neighborhood.”

by Brandon 97 on May 20, 2008 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yo. Check it.

Top Ten BCS Bowls

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3402071

Shazam!

"I asked Darrell Royal, the coach of the Texas Longhorns, why he didn’t recruit me and he said: "Well, Walt, we took a look at you and you weren’t any good.
- Walt Garrison

by 512 on May 19, 2008 1:11 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I guess that's...

... the tail end of “Mack Brown’s only been to 2 BCS bowls..” as in: ”... but they were some pretty freakin’ good BCS bowls!” Good point, 512.

--Horn Brain--

by Horn Brain on May 19, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Continuing thought...

When we’re good, we’re really damn good. When we aren’t, though, how good should we be?

--Horn Brain--

by Horn Brain on May 19, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather have a team...

that plays to their ability. Doesn’t do the conference any good when teams like OU and A&M beat Texas out of pure spite, get a somewhat underserving bowl game thanks to their win over Texas, then they go on to “Shit the Bed”. Makes the whole conference look bad.

The last “Shit the Bed” bowl game for Texas I can think of was the Washington State Holiday Bowl. Not that it was an important game or anything, but Texas sure didn’t show up.

"I asked Darrell Royal, the coach of the Texas Longhorns, why he didn’t recruit me and he said: "Well, Walt, we took a look at you and you weren’t any good.
- Walt Garrison

by 512 on May 19, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dark Ages

Great article PB. I also see the 2009 season as a bell-weather point for Mack Brown.

I appreciated your reference to the 84-97 seasons. I did experience those years as an adult ( some might debate the adult label ). I often refer to those years as the Dark Ages – as Texas football endured turbulent times. Aggy took the state’s best recruits year in & out for several years running and dominated the last decade of the SWC. Although I can attest to a resurgence in the pre-Mack days – the zenith being a landmark victory over Nebraska (James Brown, Derek Lewis, Priest Holmes, Ricky Williams, et al). Be interesting to compare the offenses of that coach whose name I won’t mention to the Mack Brown offenses.

I’ve seen what I hope is a permanent change with Mack Brown this offseason. I also experienced another acute period of decay for the Longhorns, epitomized by DKR’s last 2 years. When DKR resigned in 1976, he capped off that season w/ a victory over Arkansas to end at 5-5-1 (identical for Arkansas if I recall, and certainly the last game for both DKR and Frank Broyles at Arkansas). DKR had not beaten Aggy for 2 years, and had not beaten fou since 1970. I still recall the outcry for DKR’s exit, the “Unleash Earl” bumper stickers, and the high enthusiasm for Fred Akers.

Here’s hoping Mack Brown’s alliance/mentoring with DKR has yielded a useful analogy to DKR’s post NC years (6 of them) and a comprehensive & methodical way to do things differently.

by HalfmileHorn on May 19, 2008 4:32 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

I too

.....lived through those tough years. While Carl Reese’s 2001 defense was declared the country’s #1 defense after allowing 207 points, try to give some thought to Fred Akers’ defenses that allowed 104 points in 1979 and 114 points in 1983. Think about that for awhile…...

Even in his single losing season (his last at UT) 1986, Fred Akers’ defense allowed only 245 points. Were it not for the rampant cheating of SMU, OU, A&M and Houston, Fred Akers and his terrific teaching staffs might have coached for 25 years at UT. There is a reason (great teaching/player development) why Fred Akers’ 1983 team had seventeen (17) players drafted into the NFL. That is still a single NFL draft record. While our NFL draft numbers have improved in the past few years we still have only 42 Longhorns taken in Mack’s 10 drafts. Compare that to 64 in Fred Akers’ 10 NFL drafts. Some perspective for those who don’t appreciate the impact of cheating toward the end of the SWC. Without all that cheating, I’m confident we wouldn’t have lost our recruiting edge, we wouldn’t have lost a great coach, his great teaching staffs and we’d never suffered through much of a “down period”.

--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---

by HornChamps on May 20, 2008 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Umm . . .

Texas was cheating as well during this time and was caught. NCAA handed down probation and penalties in 1987 for Akers “regime” from 1980-86.

by DoubleB on May 20, 2008 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

Texas sanctions were a reduction in scholarships from 25 to 20 for 2 years.
By comparison for the same time period:
September 20, 1973 – NCAA found University of Oklahoma football team violated extra benefits; including improper recruiting inducements; lodging, publicity and transportation; tryouts; excessive number of official visits; excessive time for official visits; in addition to academic fraud; eligibility; unethical conduct.

Result: 2 year Probation, 2 year post season ban, 2 year television ban, one assistant football coach not allowed to recruit.

November 11, 1980 – NCAA found University of Oklahoma football team violated improper financial aid; improper recruiting contacts, entertainment and transportation.

Result: Publicly reprimand.

December 19, 1988 – NCAA found University of Oklahoma football team violated improper transportation; extra benefits; complimentary tickets; improper recruiting contacts, employment, entertainment, inducements and transportation; unethical conduct; outside fund; lack of institutional control; certification of compliance.

Result: 3 years probation; 1 year television ban; 3 years probation; Maximum of 18 initial grants for 1989-90 and 1990-91 football season. maximum of eight coaches may recruit off campus for 1989-90; OU limited to maximum of 50 official visits for 1988-89 and 1989-90; The University of Oklahoma files annual reports regarding compliance programs; University of Oklahoma must show cause why more penalties should not be imposed if institution does not remove two assistant coaches and recruiting coordinator from recruiting and disassociate one representative.

by HalfmileHorn on May 20, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So they cheated more...

... but let’s not getting into a “You cheated more than us” contest. No one looks good after those.

--Horn Brain--

by Horn Brain on May 20, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A little more, a little less

It is no contest, the record is clear on who/where rampant cheating manifested. Our infractions were infinitesimal compared to those of our competition & our sanctions reflected that.

Didn’t want to go there myself, but it was thrown out there.

by HalfmileHorn on May 20, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The ’’very substantial, improper extra benefits to a very-talented enrolled student-athlete. (AP, 1987)’’ is not something I would call “infinitesimal” in comparison to those of your competition. The penalties also included the reduction of visits from 95 to 75 as well (not just scholarship reductions).

I agree that there wasn’t the complete lack of institutional control that existed at Oklahoma and SMU, but this isn’t minor. The probation and loss of scholarships reflected that.

And just to clarify, this was thrown out by the original poster who seemed to insinuate that the 1984-97 “Dark Years” were the result of rampant cheating by UT’s competition. It would seem appropriate to at least mention that Texas was involved with its own issues on this subject as well.

by DoubleB on May 20, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Broad Brush

Agreed, that was a pretty broad brush.

We had a prime opportunity in Jan ‘78, DKR’s players, Fred at the helm and we choked. To toss it all off on competition cheating is fallacious. Funny, I hadn’t thought of this in years – I always theorized that SMU’s success in those days actually came at the expense of & hurt OU more than anyone.

by HalfmileHorn on May 20, 2008 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Choked??
We had a prime opportunity in Jan ‘78, DKR’s players, Fred at the helm and we choked. To toss it all off on competition cheating is fallacious. Funny, I hadn’t thought of this in years – I always theorized that SMU’s success in those days actually came at the expense of & hurt OU more than anyone.

Oh yeah, playing for 2 Nat’l Championships in a 7-year time period is really choking it all away. Anyone thinking the University of Texas sank to the low of only ONE recruit from the AA-S Fab-55 list due to something other than the rampant cheating of our competitors is pretty naive.

--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---

by HornChamps on May 21, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?

Just so I’m clear HornChamps—you believe that Fred Akers fell victim to “rampant cheating” by its competition, but still managed to put 64 players into the NFL during his time at Texas and played for 2 national titles. This despite the fact Oklahoma was basically a cheating factory during the Switzer era.

I think Akers was a pretty good coach who had the misfortune of following a Texas legend. He was light years better than the two guys who followed him.

Although this tangent does bring up an interesting point. Why would the flagship school in a football-mad state with excellent high school prospects struggle so much from 1984-1997?

by DoubleB on May 21, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ummm.....

I meant Jan of ‘78, and not 78-??. We were number 1, beat fou for the first time since 1970, had Earl Campbell well & running. All-world receivers in Alfred Jackson and Johnny Lam Jones. Dominant defense ( you couldn’t keep us out of your backfield). Yeah, in the Cotton Bowl Jan ‘78 I say we choked. I watched the game and I still remember how bad it felt.

I don’t totally disagree w/ your last sentence. You should note, however, we had disgruntled alumni who also encouraged prospective players to go elsewhere to help pull the rug out from under Akers. Many of the best players in this era were going coast to coast, contributing to our problems. It would be naive for me to suggest the Miami’s and FSU’s, among others, had clean hands in all of this.

by HalfmileHorn on May 21, 2008 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a Husker fan it is interesting to observe the love-hate relationship that seems to exist with Texas fans towards Mack Brown. All I can add is to suggest that you not take for granted the fact that you’re playing for a Big 12 Championship (almost) every year. Sure, OU has had your number recently, but you’re in the hunt.

Husker fans are dying to get back to that level of comfort in the North. Careful when you get on that coaching carousel. You’re never sure when or where it will stop.

bigrednetwork.com - Nebraska Cornhusker news, stats and analysis

by siffring on May 19, 2008 5:46 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

well, siffring, I think the difference is

texas isn’t stupid enough to hire Steve Pederson and let him bring in “the Bobs” to destroy athletic department morale.

Also, texas would never have been relegated to hiring Bill Callahan if they were hiring a new head coach following the 2003 season.

by Beergut on May 19, 2008 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now he's even trying to rile up visiting bloggers.

Lose your series to Nebraska last weekend, eh? Sorry to hear it.

--Horn Brain--

by Horn Brain on May 19, 2008 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

despite your handle, you aren't too bright

It appears you feel the need to try to search for a negative in any comment I make, so you can flame away.
If you bothered to read what I wrote, you’d see that I was actually complimenting texas, but I guess that would require too much effort on your part.

I don’t need to try to “rile up visiting bloggers”, especially over something as little as a baseball series. If I wanted to “rile up” a Nebraska fan, there are millions of other things I could bring up before I even broach the subject of baseball.

by Beergut on May 21, 2008 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's generally considered belligerent...

...to use the word “stupid” when describing someone’s athletics department or coaches, and I certainly wouldn’t think someone was being friendly if they told me that my team isn’t attractive to coaches when I’ve got 800 wins and counting. Perhaps it wasn’t your intent to be confrontational, but that’s how you come across occasionally in your posts.

You irked a Husker, so I irked you back by noting your series loss to NU. I’m just playing the ball you pitched, so to speak. As far as your comment being complimentary to Texas; I agree. The reason I replied was because it was not complimentary to Nebraska. Fair? I think so.

--Horn Brain--

by Horn Brain on May 21, 2008 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it isn't insulting if it is a fact

If someone said to me that A&M was stupid for giving Franchione a raise after the 2004 season, I would agree with them.
If someone said Bill Byrne was stupid after giving Melvin Watkins a new contract following the 2002-’03 basketball season, I would agree with them.
It doesn’t matter if it hurts someone’s feelings to hear that (we’re talking about sports here, why the hell are feelings even coming into the conversation?) or considered belligerent, both of the above statements are facts.
Nebraska was stupid to let Pederson hire a buddy as a “consultant” (at great cost to the department) who came in and re-organized the way things were done, in the name of “efficiency”. It destroyed departmental morale, which led directly to Pederson’s firing.
There is a difference between thinking your program is attractive to coaches, and going around and thumpig your chest and claiming your head coaching job is the #1 job in all of college football, which is what Pederson did. Pederson’s arrogance (along with the firing of a coach who led the team to a 9-3 record) is one of the big reasons they had so much difficulty finding a new head coach, and had to settle for Callahan.
Nebraska couldn’t even get Houston Nutt to leave Arkansas for Lincoln; THINK ABOUT THAT.
Nebraska’s overall win total hides the fact that it is a difficult place to recruit to, b/c there is no home-base for talent. Nebraska has to recruit out-of-state heavily to be competitive. The fact that they just fired Callahan, and couldn’t hire a known head coach, but went after a defensive coordinator, contradicts the notion that they are “the #1 job in college football”. I’m not saying Nebraska is not a top job, b/c I think it is definitely in the top 15, but I don’t think they are in the top 5, and they are nowhere near what Pederson claimed they were.

by Beergut on May 21, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just drop it.

You’re not responding to my points, and are instead responding to points like mine which are easier to argue with. If you want to have a pissing contest, go play with a troll at Texags or something. This is not the place. I’m done.

--Horn Brain--

by Horn Brain on May 21, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Funny

His tag line talked about facts and then he goes on to list a bunch of opinions that he would agree with. Does agreeing with someone’s opinion make it a fact?

by Wells on May 21, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't really care.

Not necessary to see this through to the bitter end.

--Horn Brain--

by Horn Brain on May 21, 2008 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Word for the Wise

Thanks siffring – a point not to be taken lightly

by HalfmileHorn on May 19, 2008 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Coach Mack Brown

Mack Brown was the right coach for Texas in the wake of the mess that John Mackovic left the program. He rebuilt relations with the Texas high schools, alums, DKR, restored order and a nurturing family atmosphere with the student athletes that we’re generally proud to have represent Texas…and built the program into a solid program as a perennial top 15 program albeit lately it’s been the bottom half of the top 15 that’s the subject of this post.

First and foremost Texas is a reflection of it’s coaches. Mack Brown is a terrific guy we’d love to have as a grandpa. After coaching I don’t know how many years, he finally won his first national championship, and in one of the locker room statements he made that stood out in my mind after the victory he said he did NOT want this to be one their proudest moments….he wanted them to go on to do greater things, to be great dads and great husbands, etc. No chance that Bob Stoops, Les Miles, Jim Tressel, etc would have said that right after winning the national championship that they’ve been chasing their entire career up to that moment. And this is a reflection of the team….”soft” often gets brought up. OU is mentally tougher than Texas in this regard, particularly during the Bob AND Mike Stoops era. Mike in particular lives for the win, lives for football, eats, breathes, spits…football. If you study RRS, it’s definitely not about the X’s and O’s and it’s not about talent. One team has clearly been tougher, and unfortunately in most years under the Mack Brown era, that hasn’t been Texas, which made VY’s victories all the more remarkable. An aggressive, confident mindset is required and hopefully Muschamp can provide this to the defense. On the offensive side, an equally confident mindset is required although the aggressive nature needs to tempered and controlled. Unfortunately Brown and Davis don’t embody and project onto the team, but rather provide a nurturing atmosphere so that players can develop this in themselves. Sometimes it translates onto the field…Colt McCoy & Quan Cosby…and sometimes it didn’t…Chris Simms & BJ Johnson… to overcome inevitable setbacks on the field to push through to a win.

Hook'em

by longhorns1 on May 20, 2008 1:58 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

A decent but mediocre W over Iowa in the Alamo Bowl

foreshadowed a decent but mediocre season.

I feel the impressive victory over Arizona State will foreshadow an impressive season that will probably be considered an overachievement by many.

by goingforthecorner on May 20, 2008 2:33 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Like others have said though,

2009 will be the year that we could make a legitimate title run (conference, and beyond). This year should be a nice springboard into that.

by Brandon 97 on May 20, 2008 10:35 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Absolutely. Mack has his faults, but people fail to appreciate his accomplishments after the rut Texas was before his time.

by TheElusiveShadow on May 22, 2008 11:29 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Burnt Orange Nation, a blog dedicated to University of Texas athletics. Get BON updates via Twitter.
Start posting about the Longhorns »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Ut_vs_fau_8-30-2008_049_small
Tebow Apologizes, Resumes Place at Right Hand of God
Rose_bowl_1__small
SEC Bias is Intolerable - An Email to Pat Forde

Recent FanPosts

Elephantlogoorange_small
BCS System Alternatives
Small
Mock BCS talk between Fla, Bama, Tex, Iowa
Clock_tower_small
Weekly BON Hit Award osu
Small
TCU?
Small
Boise St.
Small
Earl is among Thorpe Award semifinalists named
2_small
Just Curious..
Img_1915_small
Down and Dirty....The life and crimes of Oklahoma Football
Elephantlogoorange_small
Toughest Opponent in Pasadena
Vy_rosebowl2006_small
Big XII Champ Tickets

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SPONSORS


Site Editors

Pb6_small Peter Bean

Dark_pumpkin_small awiggo

Menbooger_small GhostofBigRoy

Contributing Authors

Jersey_front_small 54b

Zombie_profilepic_small Horn Brain

Gse_multipart20834_small 40AS

Pigeons_small billyzane

Small whills

Brandedbevo1024x768_small dimecoverage

Rosebowl_small txtwstr7

Small TheElusiveShadow

Me_small burnt in ny

Official Partner of CBS Sports