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Bash Mack Brown???

Tiny by Longhorny on

I don't really know what to say about this.(no Grundels here, promise)  I don't think this researcher has not lived up to his title. First, I didn't think our offense struggled last year.  Defense.... Yes ...Offense...not hardly...

If you have a back like Charles why would you need any others.  I also remember Charles being in Mack's doghouse at Iowa State with McGee being more than adequate.

Lastly, I think Muschamp is more Mack's heir apparent than is Applewhite.

I have read a few articles like this...Anyone else???

Poll
Mack's Status
  • Solid, no qualms
  • Better not lose to A&M again
  • Better not lose to OU again
  • Better not lose to either A&M or OU
  • Win 10, in like Flynn

  271 votes | Results

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Muschamp will

.....receive an attractive offer, worthy of accepting, well before Mack Brown is prepared to retire. If Tim Brewster is successful in getting Minnesota turned around, then he will definitely be high on the list of candidates.

While DeLoss gets all giddy over 10-win seasons, there are plenty of fans and donors who are looking for Big-XII Championships and automatic bids to a BCS Bowl. Mack understood the importance of defeating OU. That 3-6 record vs. Bob Stoops and 2-4 record vs. Kansas State has to improve, or things will get restless.

--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---

by HornChamps on Jul 22, 2008 10:17 PM CDT reply reply   0 recs

he may be solid..

...but that doesn’t excuse him for losing to OU or A&M EVER!..lol

by vy til i die on Jul 22, 2008 10:51 PM CDT reply reply   0 recs

It deserves a rec.

It's a Horns' world. Even Aggies play hoops with a burnt orange ball.
Is it football season YET?

by Speedway on Jul 23, 2008 6:22 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

pshaw

Yeah, especially since Tech has never won the Big XII South!

by cheevyjames on Jul 23, 2008 9:04 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

C'mon

We all know Mack won with the great VY at the helm. This year and next will prove whether he can truly coach or not. I am one who is tired of underachievment, and look forward to the day when Mack can be looked upon as a great schemer as well as “coach February.”

by UT Fanatic on Jul 23, 2008 8:58 AM CDT reply reply   0 recs

A little fire would be nice

i think we could all be calling for GD to be hanged and have applewhite ascend to his perch. But i would like to see alittle more motivation out of Mack, he always seems such the stoic on the sidelines, always blank face, bent over, hands on his knees, we all know the pose. Players can feed off a coach’s intensity and i feel like Mack lacks that at critical times.

by PhiTypist on Jul 23, 2008 9:00 AM CDT reply reply   0 recs

I agree to a point

The head coach should show emotion on the sidelines and I believe Mack does, but I think it also his job to be less emotional than the assistants. The assistants should be the ones on the sidelines chest bumping players on good plays and in their faces on bad plays. I believe the intensity comes from the assistants while the game managing comes from the head coach.

by afaeguy on Jul 23, 2008 9:35 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

i think you hit the nail on the head

Mack is the most unemotional guy on the sidelines…when Texas’ talent is pumped up and motivated, great things can be achieved. If the coach is pumped, everybody else is

by lazylonghorn on Jul 23, 2008 1:16 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Tradeoff

Is it better to be ‘fired up’ or ‘under control’? I am not at all convinced that players need a coach throwing a tantrum on the sideline to be able to play aggressively. Frankly, I was embarrassed by Brown’s performance against ASU and doubt it was a factor in the victory. Our team played better, but I attribute that to having more intense practices than Mack jumping around on game day. The best coaches are those who maintain their composure and instill confidence in their players.

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.

by Caradoc on Jul 26, 2008 12:32 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   1 recs

His job is secure

Let’s be honest guys. He’s won 10 games however many years in a row now and won the national championship a few years back as well. He doesn’t need to be fiery, that’s not who he is. I think as a game coach he gets a bad wrap… and I have 2 major arguments to support that. 1.) He coached a team to a national championship. 2.) He was winning at North Carolina.

Anyone who puts up wins at NC can coach

by andmyster on Jul 23, 2008 9:57 AM CDT reply reply   0 recs

What?

How can anyone say anything other than his status is “Solid”??? Seriously, think about what the guy has done. Nat’l champs, $200 billion or whatever it is put into the facilities, probably 70 guys to the pros, etc. Remember what it was like in the 90’s before he arrived? I do, and i’m VERY happy he’s here and i believe he’s earned a “solid” vote. Since when is a 10 win season shitty? That’s what college football is these days: Stringing together a lot of 10 win seasons until you have that stroke of luck that propels you to the next level. By the way: Mack recruited VY and helped him become who he is. You know what WOULD be troubling? If we had guys going on to the pros and excelling that never produced on the 40 acres. THAT would be a sign of poor coaching.

by rchorns on Jul 23, 2008 11:27 AM CDT reply reply   1 recs

Since when...
Since when is a 10 win season shitty?

Since we started getting them by losing to OU and the Aggies in the same year. This past season was the most disappointing season we’ve had in terms of our schedule and the games we managed to lose, I think. Mack will catch some flack for those kinds of things.

by Horn Brain on Jul 23, 2008 1:31 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I agree

I think it’s not so much losing as the attitude that results in losing. There is no shame in losing to a team that is really and truly better than you are, as long as you can walk away knowing you gave your maximum effort and that it just wasn’t enough. There’s nothing you can do about that.

Losing to a clearly inferior team, more especially when a BCS bowl and/or Big XII title game are on the line, is simply inexcusable. What causes things like that to happen is not wanting it badly enough, and that starts with the coaching staff. You give your players a reason to work as hard as they possibly can, and they will. Nobody is going to bust their ass for you if they know the pecking order has already been determined.

by bassale47 on Jul 23, 2008 1:55 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   2 recs

So if we get a coach

who sucks a recruiting and player development, goes 5-5 every year, but does it with maximum effort then you would be happy?

by Wells on Jul 23, 2008 7:25 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

North Carolina was...

....putting up 10-win seasons well before Mack Brown arrived. In fact, his predecessor had a better won/loss record than Mack’s.

rchhorns, do you think Frank Okam and Drew Kelson were well developed? Kelson was the country’s #1 safety. while Okam was the country’s #3 DT. Kelson went undrafted and Okam went in the 5th.

1. A&M’s TE went higher in the draft than did J-Mike. Bennett #61 vs. J-Mike #

2. A&M’s best OL went higher in the draft than did our best O-Lineman. C.Wallace #107 vs. T.Hills #130

3. A&M’s best DT went higher in the draft than did our best DT. R.Bryant #121 vs. F.Okam #151.

Dennis Franchione’s first full class had as many draft picks as did R.C.Slocum’s final 3 classes combined!

I’m not saying it is a reversal of a trend, but it doesn’t give me comfort.

--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---

by HornChamps on Jul 23, 2008 11:58 AM CDT reply reply   2 recs

kelson

I think given the Horns recent history of DBs going to the NFL that it’d be hard to argue Kelson’s failures at UT were the result of the coaching staff.

by jw4425 on Jul 23, 2008 12:36 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Further

following the argument that Kelson and Okam were not developed because they were #1 and #3, Bennett was the #1 tight end and should go before Jmike, who was #6.

Yes North Carolina Had 10 win seasons before Mack, 2 under Dick Crum and 1 under Bill Dooley, 3 in 20 years, Mack had 3 in his last five.

Finally, I do not think Draft Position indicates a player was not developed in college. Mack’s Job is to make the best college team not the best pro prosects.

by billb on Jul 23, 2008 1:05 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

10-win seasons:

Predecessors…......M.Brown

1972: 11-1….............1993: 10-3
1980: 11-1….............1996: 10-2
1981: 10-2….............1997: 10-1

D.Crum and B.Dooley always had their 10-win seasons in 12 game seasons. Mack needed a 13th game to get his first. Crum and Dooley both had 11-win seasons – Mack didn’t. Crum and Dooley didn’t have any 10-loss seasons. Mack had 2 of them, even though he had 13 NFL players on those squads.

As for the draft status, that would put you in direct opposition to the thinking of most potential recruits.

--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---

by HornChamps on Jul 23, 2008 4:07 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Still,

You are cherry picking the 3 best seasons in UNC history and comparing them to 3 of Mack’s 10 seasons.

by ctex80 on Jul 23, 2008 4:35 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

You do.....

.....recognize that both are within 10-year time periods, don’t you?

I’m not cherry picking anything. This was just to disprove the silly, “Anyone who puts up wins at NC can coach” comment.

--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---

by HornChamps on Jul 23, 2008 4:40 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Re: Kelson

Kelson got stuck in an odd situation.

His freshman year (or rs), he was moved to RB because the Horns were short in that area due to injuries. And he got injured, which really set him back.

We he got back, the Horns DBs and safeties – remember those guys who all went to the pros – so they moved him to an outside linebacker trying to get him on the field. But he was a little light for fending off blockers but actually played well, considering. But he never got the intense training at safety. Last year they should have played him there regardless, imho, and we would have been somewhat more secure.

Kelson’s willingness to be a RB (which he was in HS and he performed well before his injury) wound up undercutting his development. That was an unfortunate development for a smart, savvy player; his last year was the real true mistake.

It is no surprise then, the wasn’t drafted. But he’s going to camp and he has a chance at the pros and I wish him the best of luck.

by whills on Jul 23, 2008 1:51 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Not really a fair comparison

Martellus Bennett was a junior. Finley was a sophomore. Bennett was A&M’s leading receiver. Finley was a pretty distant third to Nate Jones and Quan Cosby. Huge difference in their level of exposure, and Finley would have gone much higher than 91 if he had given it even one more year.

Also, Tony Hills was injured, and that probably impacted his draft status.

What does this have to do with anything, anyway? Franchione doesn’t coach at A&M anymore, and his successor isn’t exactly tearing it up on the recruiting trail. Besides, I’ll put Mack Brown’s track record for NFL draft picks against just about anyone’s. The guy does not have a shabby resume in that department.

by bassale47 on Jul 23, 2008 1:25 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Pay attention..
Bennett was A&M’s leading receiver.

Probably had a lot to do with his being drafted #61. What’s your point? Given the fact that A&M threw the ball only 376 times, compared to our 436 attempts, only goes to make Bennett’s 49 receptions all the more impressive.

As for J-Mike being drafted higher if he had returned, that is 100% pure conjecture. Conjecture, by the way, that didn’t work for Rod Wright, Frank Okam, Tony Hills, Justin Blalock and Jonathan Scott. In the past 20 years, Texas has had exactly 1 TE drafted higher than J-Mike’s #91. History would suggest your conjecture is failed logic.

The point about Franchione is that virtually the entire Longhorn nation has falsely claimed he did a poor job of recruiting. Clearly that is not the case. As for Sherman, you must not be paying attention. That is a solid class with six 4-star recruits, 12 3-star recruits, three 2-star recruits, a JUCO corner and plenty of speed. Don’t be silly by trying to dismiss that class.

--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---

by HornChamps on Jul 23, 2008 4:34 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

How do you know

Where all of those players would have been drafted had they left early? Conjecture.

by ctex80 on Jul 23, 2008 4:36 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   1 recs

a&m

only has 2 four star players per Rivals, and a bunch of 3 star players (the norm). Compare them to Texas’ class, and well….you really should be quiet! If you wanna go on Scout. com, the comparison gets worse for y’all (a&m).

by Longhorns84 on Jul 24, 2008 12:55 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Believe he's talking about A&M's 2008 class per Scout, so he's correct there

Since it’s a partial carryover from Fran, so Sherman shouldn’t get all the credit.

As for next year, A&M rarely has the same early success of the 3 programs you name. But more often than not they can put a top 25 class together (often top 15), aside from a two year drought as they approached the height of Fran’s incompetence. They are in Texas after all.

by learned hand on Jul 24, 2008 1:30 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

08'

08’ wasn’t that good for UT becasue 07’ was great. UT usually goes every other year with ou. This is UT’s year to win the recruiting battle.

by Longhorns84 on Jul 24, 2008 2:31 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Wake up

Remember? Or are we talking about the 7th century again?

It's a Horns' world. Even Aggies play hoops with a burnt orange ball.
Is it football season YET?

by Speedway on Jul 24, 2008 4:48 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

long time no see!

What are you talking about now?

by Longhorns84 on Jul 24, 2008 5:02 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Apostrophe abuse

FYI: This is definitely one worth learning, since it will follow you from graduation until death. ex. class of ‘09.

by learned hand on Jul 24, 2008 5:38 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   1 recs

so....

your telling me Speedway is talking about grammer again on a sports blog!?

by Longhorns84 on Jul 24, 2008 8:05 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Blogging with injineres and uhternys

you don’t stand a chance, with math or language.

by horndude on Jul 24, 2008 8:12 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   1 recs

engineers?aggies?

y’all can’t even build a bonfire.

by Longhorns84 on Jul 25, 2008 9:42 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

huh?

Engineer: guilty as charged. I would correct your math/statistical errors, but the rocket scientists always catch ‘em first.

aggy: WTF?

Maybe I need to go back to my “Baaaaaah Means No” avatar to make it a little more obvious?

by horndude on Jul 25, 2008 11:15 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I miss that avatar. Guilty as charged too. nt whills

It's a Horns' world. Even Aggies play hoops with a burnt orange ball.
Is it football season YET?

by Speedway on Jul 25, 2008 11:43 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

spelling

I hope y’all learned how to spell before attending UT! I’m not good at typing!

by Longhorns84 on Jul 25, 2008 10:22 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

yes...

..since the A and E are SO right next to each other

by vy til i die on Jul 25, 2008 11:38 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

good job!

I’m sure it took you a while to research that!

by Longhorns84 on Jul 25, 2008 11:53 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Just' being' funny' with' you'

It’s just that every time I see an 08’ it just looks so strange. I then look to see what the apostrophe is there for, and it’s not there for anything it’s just tagging along with the 08.

Hey if BoddickerIsClutch is the Champion of Irregardless (to the chagrin of a few BONers) then you can be the Czar of Hanging Apostrophes!

I salute you on this merry Friday’ !

It's a Horns' world. Even Aggies play hoops with a burnt orange ball.
Is it football season YET?

by Speedway on Jul 25, 2008 6:37 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Hey now..

Irregardless is a word, that can only become more right with continued usage.

In case you were unware, allow me to quote the venerable Wikipedia:

In the last twenty-five years, irregardless has become a common entry in dictionaries and usage reference books. It appears in a wide range of dictionaries including: Webster’s Third New International Dictionary of the English Language Unabridged (1961, repr. 2002),[4] The Barnhart Dictionary of Etymology (1988), The American Heritage Dictionary (Second College Edition, 1991),[5] Microsoft Encarta College Dictionary (2001), and Webster’s New World College Dictionary (Fourth Edition, 2004).[6]

Putting apostrophes after the year is just wrong, and shouldn’t be equated with correct, if not obscure, nay, even polarizing, diction.

by BoddickerIsClutch on Jul 25, 2008 8:33 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

At least...

Learn to spell ‘grammar’. Then you can complain about Speedway’s lessons without looking even worse.

by jw4425 on Jul 25, 2008 8:38 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

a&m

gets the players Texas, ou, and LSU don’t want!

by Longhorns84 on Jul 24, 2008 12:56 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Yes, that

.....would be accurate. Then, sadly, they played for the sorriest coach in the Big-XII and beat us in consecutive seasons. Be smart enough of a Longhorn to be properly embarrassed.

Thankfully, the big donors gave Mack the butt-chewing he deserved and got him on the “new” track that we saw prior to the Holiday Bowl. Let’s hope it lasts longer than 6 weeks.

--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---

by HornChamps on Jul 24, 2008 3:21 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

8 out of 10

isn’t too bad for a so called big rivalry

by Longhorns84 on Jul 24, 2008 5:03 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

aggie?

Why would an aggie go on a Texas blog anyway?

by Longhorns84 on Jul 24, 2008 5:05 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

The Kelson thing kills me

and that must be laid at Mack’s feet. He was a safety prospect, and they screwed around instead of giving him 4 years on continuous development in the 2ndary.

by DogTown on Jul 23, 2008 4:06 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Where were you his 4 years?

Did you watch Kelson play, like at all? He was not that good. Period, end of story. The reason he was moved to RB and LB wasn’t solely because those positions were thin, they needed to find somewhere to put the “22 star” recruit because if they didn’t they would have to hear about it from people like everybody on this site. At the end of the day we had other players to play DB that were better (THORPE award winners). Go back to rivals and look at the top 10 list of the past 5 years. Some of them, studs, making millions and making it rain at strip clubs nationwide. Others, nothing, high school heros that are forever going to be telling people about how they were 5 stars in 2002. Not to say Kelson was jack shit, he did make somewhat of an impact in his time at UT, but he was more of the latter.

Kelson was frustrating almost solely for the fact that he was such a highly rated prospect on rivals or scout or whatever. At the end of the day those sites aren’t crystal balls, they re composed of fanatic middle aged men that stalk 16-18 year olds and get wet whenever these HIGH SCHOOL students make other 16-18 year olds look like middle schoolers. I am one of these stalkers (except way fuckin younger), I watch you tube all day dreaming of the possibilities, I have just learned not to expect what I dream, as opposed to some people.

That said, I appologize for the asshole undertone of my post, I am hungover as shit and am going to be angry all day, feel free to rant back at me, honestly I need to argue with somebody cuz these pieces of shit at the office aren’t even worth my asshole attitude.

by tvr'11 on Jul 24, 2008 9:48 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

This is about the time of year when these articles come out of the woodwork

You can tell immediately they are written by people who are not Texas fans, not Big XII fans, and have done zero research. They’re not interested in presenting a reasonable, defensible argument about Mack Brown’s job stability or the Horns’ prospects in ‘08. They’re interested in piling on. They’re interested in taking something they read on a message board from some wacko and extrapolating it into the consensus view of the entireTexas fanbase.

Mack Brown’s job is not in jeopardy in any conceivable way, and it won’t be, even if he only wins 8 or 9 games (which I seriously doubt will happen). This not a “pivotal” year for him. It is most certainly an important year for the program, from the standpoint of seeing just how well these young players can handle the immense pressure they are going to face this season and how well it prepares them for ‘09. But nobody who matters is going to judge Mack Brown’s suitability as the Texas coach based on this season. Legitimate writers know this, and their work reflects it. That’s what is so frustrating about the offseason. All the wannabe college football writers get their licks in while they can because they know no one will be paying any attention to them once there is actual football to be discussed.

by bassale47 on Jul 23, 2008 1:11 PM CDT reply reply   0 recs

Agreed

The only reasonable arguments I’ve ever heard from writers or fans all revolve around Davis, not Brown. Crap writers see some frustration with the coaching staff and don’t dig enough to see it’s main target is GD, not Mack.

by jw4425 on Jul 23, 2008 2:16 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Here's your response

and it’s convieniently found over at Barking Carnival:
http://www.barkingcarnival.com/henryjames/defense-wins-championships

in short, Mack, whether at UNC or UT, has fielded a lot of teams that, defensively speaking, were in or close to the top 10 units in the nation.

However, only once has he had a unit that was in the top 10 offensively. Guess who was QBing that year.
Now guess who the common denominator is for all those other years.

That’s your answer

by DogTown on Jul 23, 2008 7:55 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Uhm

the link is about defense, no stats for offense there.

Depending on how you define to 10 offense I guess, but here are the years and rankings:
Year Total Offense Scoring Offense
2007 13 14
2006 22 6
2005 3 1
2004 7 12
2003 20 6
2002 48 16
2001 38 6
2000 14 8

And that is as far back as I can find as it seems that no one has put stats before 2000 on the internet.
Comparing this comprehensive list with the link’s list of picking and chosing years, it seems pretty comparable.

by Wells on Jul 24, 2008 4:33 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

We were 13th in scoring O for 1999: 34.2 pts. per game;

29th in total offense with 410.08. Source

I’m certainly not one of GD’s bigger fans; I’m more inclined to believe that he is at best above average. I also don’t necessarily agree with defending him in the season long aggregate. The annual 60+ point bludgeoning of Baylor/UNT, and our semi-annual 50+ point affair with Okie St. or Tech somewhat hides the game where is just seems incapable of making effective adjustments to a prepared defense.

Further, he can also be conservative to the point of distraction, which is often a virtue with a lights out defense, but gives me the hives when we fall behind multiple scores.

However, your point is well taken, he cannot be this consistently successful without having some talent. I fear however that he is just good enough not to be fired, but not good enough to be promoted to a HC job. I’d guess that someone other than me must feel that way, since he’s run a top 16 scoring offense since 1999 yet hasn’t been hired away.

by learned hand on Jul 24, 2008 6:02 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I dislike that defense

Every major program now a days has weaklings that they bludgeon. I think it more or less equals out on the