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John Chiles: UT's Tebow?

Kirk Bohls wrote a column last week wondering if John Chiles is the next Tim Tebow.  Cue the wunderkind:

"I'm the first John Chiles," he said, flashing a toothy smile.

Well, so much for that.  Chiles is obviously a confident player, understanding his ability to change games.  After all, he is faster than Vince Young.  Possibly significantly.  The problem is the passing.  Even though Bohls favorably compares the two, as he points out, Tebow was 22 of 33 in his freshman year, while Chiles was 1 of 9.  Bohls says neither was an accomplished passer, which I might buy, but judging by the passing stats, the levels of "accomplishment" were not comparable (I suggest logic more unassailable, Mr. Bohls).  Urban Meyer found passes Tebow could complete, while the Longhorns coaches failed to do the same.  Bohls identifies the possible reason:

His footwork is very much a work in progress, and he seemed not to use his legs to step into his throws at practice, instead relying on his arm only. He consistently underthrew receivers and occasionally threw behind them, problems that more reps may cure.

Horn Brain touched on it as well, also noting that Chiles often took too long to make decisions in the pocket.  RolloTamasi noticed the issues, too.  In my opinion, it's going to be important for the coaches to discover what throws Chiles can make.  

But the title still wonders if Chiles is the Horns' version of Tebow.  I think they are similar in one significant way, one which Bohls would have been smart to explore.  The Horns would benefit greatly from using Chiles in short-yardage situations, like Florida did with Tebow.  While Tebow's fullback size and running style fit easily in that package, I think Chiles does as well, despite the difference in size.  My reasoning is simple.  Chiles is a threat to run the ball any time he lines behind the center.  Even if he hands the ball off, he's still a threat.  Chiles could even fake the handoff, then bootleg with an option to pass to the tight end in the flat, an easy pass to make.  The possibilities are, to use a Muschamp term, mutliple.

Besides the short-yardage similarities, the coaches may be better served by watching how Florida moved Percy Harvin around the backfield.  That's a difference between Chiles and Tebow.  Chiles is much closer in speed to Percy Harvin than Tim Tebow.  In my recollection, Tebow was never used at running back and receiver like Chiles will be this year.  So while Chiles may not be the passer that Tebow was in his freshman year, his versatility may be greater.  PB nailed the versatility issue:

Preparing for John Chiles, quarterback/roamer, is different than preparing for John Chiles, wide receiver.

It's true.  Moving Chiles to receiver permanently doesn't make much sense, simply because the offensive success this season is greatly predicated on getting him the ball.  This raises a question of usage.  RolloTamasi mentions the triple option package with McCoy and Chiles.  While I applaud Greg Davis and Mack Brown for thinking creatively on this one, I'm not sure that I see McCoy running the option well to the outside.  He just isn't fast enough.  However, it makes a ton of sense to use Chiles to run the triple option with Fozzy Whittaker and Cody Johnson or Vondrell McGee.  I believe that Greg Davis is capable of copying successful plays from other teams, so I suggest viewing some film of the Aggies (gasp!) and West Virginia running the triple option.  The Aggies ran the triple option successfully against us on that excruciating drive to seal the game in 2006.  White was dangerous with Owen Schmitt and Steve Slaton.  Heck, while you're watching the Mountaineers, take note of the running plays they used with Pat White, who has been known as only an adequate passer ithroughout his career.

This discussion also raises another question.  How will Colt and Chiles be used together and how much will Chiles take the field as the quarterback?  Last year, all we saw of the Colt/Chiles package was Chiles taking the snap while Colt split out wide.  Then Chiles would run the ball.  I don't think the defenses were worried about Colt at all.  The play could have some success if there was a commitment to trying to get Colt the ball as a receiver, but with the passing ability of Chiles and the speed of McCoy, that doesn't seem very likely.  So you almost end up 10 on 11 with that play, negating the speed advantage of Chiles.  I would be inclined to eliminate that play altogether.

I can see Colt and Chiles running the zone read together.  If Colt continues to make a concerted effort to keep the defense honest, then I think the play can have some success.  I also like the idea of moving Chiles around pre-snap.  Lining him up in the backfield before motioning out wide could not only create potential mismatches against a linebacker, but also give Colt a better pre-snap read.  Lining up at the tight end or wing back position could also allow for linebacker match-ups, while also opening up the possibility for reverses and fake reverses.  My impression of Greg Davis is that he has done a relatively poor job of developing complimentary plays.  The Hawk (I just have to link this because it's awesome) does a good job of this at CU.  He will often put a player in motion on a fake reverse to see how the defense defends it.  If the defense doesn't bite, then they run the reverse.  I think you can argue that it tends to have the effect of taking that player out of the play when they don't get the ball, but the benefit is exploring the defense for weaknesses.  I suspect that Major Applewhite can help in this respect.

That leaves the question of Chiles manning the quarterback position himself.  I've already alluded (that's for you, billyzane) to my desire to see him in short-yardage situations.  Will Chiles be used as he was last year in several games, coming in with the second unit at quarterback?  Cedric Dockery, can you help me out?

We want to get to where we can play two lines.  First line goes in, we might play two series. On the third or fourth series, Coach [Mack] Brown will put in the second line and they'll move the ball right on down the field.

Thanks man, big ups.  It would make sense to use Chiles on the "third or fourth series" since he spends time practicing with the two's.  Anyone like the idea of Chiles and Fozzy running the zone read?  Yeah, me too.  The primary issue with this package is staying on schedule.  With the limited ability of Chiles to throw (barring significant improvement in the next several weeks), staying on schedule becomes paramount.  Last year, incompletions or running plays gaining fewer than three or four yards were back-breaking.  So, once again, the coaches will have to find passes that Chiles can complete.  And, horror of horrors, that might just be the bubble screen passes fans hate.  But what about the idea of using them to get DeSean Hales or DJ Monroe the ball.  Sounds a little better, huh?  

In summary, Chiles=Tebow?  No, mainly because Chiles will be used in capacities that, in my opinion, Tebow does not have the pure speed in which to be employed (sorry Urban Meyer, it's okay, take a deep breath).  However, I would like to see Chiles used in the same short-yardage situations in which Tebow was used his freshman year.  PB?

The decision to slot Chiles as the #2 QB almost requires that the coaches get it right and make the most out of him in genuinely creative/effective ways. If they don't, they risk compounding a mistake by under-utilizing Chiles and needlessly burying Harris.

So if I'm behind the idea in theory, it's up to the staff to use Chiles in a way that reflects a genuine commitment to the right ideals.

Exactly.  Now all the coaches need to do is read this post to figure out how to use Chiles.  

Now it's time to bring the collective brainpower of Burnt Orange Nation to bear on this issue.  How do you think the Longhorns should use John Chiles this season?

 

All comments, FanPosts, and FanShots are the views of the reader-authors who create them.

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good write up first of all

i have little faith in greg davis to come up with creative plays and dont know how much of influence major will be just because he primarilly works with the rbs. i know one thing for sure, if we could find 3 – 4 throws that john can complete without consistently he will be deadly. i just hope to god that chiles doesnt throw that silly looking fake run jump pass that tebow uses. that is the silliest thing in college football and think he shouldnt have won the hiesman trophy for that single reason. so from the report is looks like running the triple option with chiles, cody johnson, and the fozz would seem the logical choice especially if they are going to be in every 4th or 5th series.

by kcc28 on Aug 12, 2008 9:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Tebow

Didn;t he use that, like one time, his freshman season?

My adopted son has the hottest wife.

by maverick76904 on Aug 12, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

some evidence

Thanks for the well thought-out post…
If you look carefully, on the practice highlights on MB-TF, they show a play where Chiles goes in motion from right to left. Colt looks right and then throws to Chiles 8 yards downfield. Against whatever defense was running, the play was wide open. Such a play was not reported from the open practices, where Chiles was used mainly as a decoy when he was together with Colt.
I’m certain, based on the bowl game, that you will see Chiles come in with some kind of what I call the Thunder package, which puts a line with the best run-blockers, TEs, receivers and two backs to run options, zone reads, and sprint-outs to provide a major change-of-pace to the 3 wide receiver, single back looks when Colt is running the show.

by burnt in ny on Aug 12, 2008 9:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

practice

I don’t think anything Texas ran during the open practices is going to be a major part of the Chiles package.

by Longhorns84 on Aug 12, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well

at least one hopes not…

by pleaseplaykindle on Aug 12, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

practice

I would very much like to see us incorporate the triple-option we used in practice this season several times per game. It creates major backside pressure for the defense and thus solves 2 problems with one play series.
1). how to stop teams from selling out to stop the RB (ignoring the QB run)
2). How to incorporate Chile’s explosiveness in the offense.

by RolloTamasi on Aug 12, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

spread option

I like your idea of incorporating the triple option. I think we’d be well served to have a robust spead option package with Chiles, Hales, and Fozzy. I never understood the “Colt split out to WR” package. Why focus on your players weaknesses? Colt’s slow(slow for a WR, anyway) and Chiles can’t throw. Defenses just ignored Colt and keyed on Chiles to run. I kind of liked the “storm” package we had last year, if only chiles can find a rhythm in the passing game.

I like our speed. We’ve got the tools. I’d rather be working with this than a bunch of experienced guys who can’t play.

by 98horn on Aug 12, 2008 9:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I kind of liked the "storm" package we had last year…

That would reminded me how we lost to Kansas State on last season. GD insisted what you called ‘Colt split out to WR’ package for most of that game and reluctantly, utilzed Chiles’ speed to provide the second look of our offensive scheme to KSU d. If you have an option(storm or thunder) to create the hesitation for the defense, why not put out that option to the field until the defense has an answer for it?

by Horns98 on Aug 12, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

to clarify

I liked the idea of the “storm” package, not the execution. Chiles couldn’t complete passes, and if you can’t do that, you lose momentum. Maybe I’m getting my packages confused, but I thought “storm” was the all-second team offense, led by Chiles. The “colt to WR” package was a gimmick that showed up a few times a game. I guess GD was trying to confuse defenses with it, but I would call that an epic fail, because it’s only problematic for DCs that ride the short bus to games. I agree that you leave a package in until the other side stops it, and then switch. It’s a concept called “pressing your advantage” that GD seems to think is unfair.

I like our speed. We’ve got the tools. I’d rather be working with this than a bunch of experienced guys who can’t play.

by 98horn on Aug 12, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

VY's sideways motion

his cuts right and left across the field were so fast I’ve only seen them executed by much smaller speedsters, like Metcalf.

Once headed downfield, Vince seldom ever lost speed unless it suited his purposes.

Last, the thing we have yet to see from Mr. Chiles, is field vision – that can be setting up plays nearly 20 yards down the field. Vince did this like a crack pool player setting up shots 8-10 balls down the line. Emmit Smith had great lateral vision running between the tackles: Vince had that all over the field. I’ve never seen anything like it.

by whills on Aug 13, 2008 1:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

VY

is as big as the D- Line, and as fast as a WR. You can’t tackle VY by arm tackling.

by Longhorns84 on Aug 13, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

besides

speed alone does not dictate running ability.

the ability to change directions quickly and deceptively, two things very difficult to quantify, play a large (larger?) role in running ability.

by pleaseplaykindle on Aug 12, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

According to Gil Brandt's

.....draft analysis, Vince Young ran a 4.58 at Texas’ Pro Day and refused to work out at the Combine.

http://www.packers.com/news/stories/2006/04/27/1/

As is usually the case, these “stopwatch 4.40s” are typically hype from the recruiting services. True 4.40s, or lower, are really pretty rare.

--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---

by HornChamps on Aug 13, 2008 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem

with playing a non-passing QB is obvious: The defense can stack against the run. For that reason, ANY time John Chiles plays, the offense is going to be limited—regardless of his speed and the package of players on the field.

I don’t see an easy solution; time was when QB was a run-pass-fake-lead position. Today, it’s pass-pass-pass. If you can’t do that, you can’t be a very effective QB. To put in pass plays Chiles can complete just tips off the defense on what’s coming.

I’d rather see Harris trained as No. 2 and Chiles wild-carded into the game at WR or RB or slot back or end around. Get him in space; playing as a QB is not playing in space.

by edsp on Aug 12, 2008 3:46 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

but

if the defense is stacking the line, doesn’t chiles have an easier time throwing the ball since so much of the d is committing to the run? this is a tricky and fine point, but i think that if there’s 8 men in the box, a big guy like dan buckner is a target even i can hit at 10-15 yards out.

by pleaseplaykindle on Aug 12, 2008 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice post

I agree that finding Chiles some plays that he can complete will go a long way. With Colt as our main QB and a strong running game, Chiles does not need to be a prolific passer to be useful to us. If he can be consistent on a handful of plays throwing, we can really put enormous pressure on a defense. Even if the defense stacks the line and knows we want to run, it’s still pretty hard defending against the zone-read or option plays that is run effectively. The defense committing to the run also presents a greater risk for them as far as giving up a huge, back-breaking play, on either the ground or through the air. While they won’t fear anyone like teams feared Jamaal Charles, I’d say Fozzy and Chiles both possess the athleticism to take it to the house if they clear the front of a loaded line and have only a guy or two to beat.

by TheElusiveShadow on Aug 12, 2008 6:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Great post. Enjoyed it.

One of the things I would consider about all this is that other teams are searching for defenses for the spread. Muschamp isn’t the only one hot on the trail.

What the Horn offense needs is some variables to counter those possible discoveries. I have increasingly felt that Chiles represents a different level of threat, if they can make it work at several positions. In the normal accordion process of stretching the field vertically and horizontally, he should be a useful tool.

The idea of the triple option in some modern form as alluded to above is one of those antidotes for the spread defenses sure to proliferate this season.

Next, given what I think is valid criticisms about his “arm” throwing and his poor footwork, if the coaches wanted to really make Chiles a better passer they should have engaged in his real improvement last spring by setting up a program to get a mature passing motion and proper footwork. Something he could work on all summer. With both GD and Major with eyes on the situation, I wonder why it apparently never happened. Certainly they wouldn’t be blind to such flaws. And, if Chiles really wants to be a big time QB, he should have been the willing student. Something just doesn’t ring true in this situation. Anyone else see that? Rick roll?

Last, I’m reminded of Emory Bellard’s dictum: You merely need the threat of the pass. (This was with respect to running offenses or just running situations.) This implies that you successfully pass ever so often, but you don’t have to pass all the time to enforce this threat. So, in this case, Chiles must pass enough to let the D know he can do it.

This plays into the coaches finding the plays which would work in this scenario. I think that is a workable thesis. John Chiles is going to run and catch the ball the large majority of the time. The trick is to make the D respect the that minority of the time when he does pass (even if it is butt ugly).

by whills on Aug 13, 2008 1:47 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

ways to utlize Chiles

put him at QB, McGee or Whitaker at TB, run zone read, and bring DJ Monroe around in orbit motion to give the triple threat

In this diagram, Monroe is B.

Click on the Diagram After It Loads

This gives you the triple-option attack and it is already built into your offense.

by Beergut on Aug 13, 2008 10:37 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

triple-option

Greg Davis says we’re using Cody Johnson as a bigger-back in our new 2 back sets. In practice we ran some packages with Chiles as QB, Johnson as TB and then Malcolm Williams or another receiver (I agree, why not Monroe?) comes in motion and is the option-back.
I’ve wanted to use the triple-option since Chiles stepped on campus. Not as a main feature but as a supplementary play series in our running game.

by RolloTamasi on Aug 13, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it sounds to me like Monroe might be another Ramonce Taylor type player

without the thug jackassery, though

He’d be lethal out on the edge as the pitch man.

If you have a true powerback, that person needs to be the zone read back in this play. It keeps the Mike backer focsed on the A-gap, b/c he can’t depend on just the NG to stuff the inside game, he has to respect threat the powerback represents.

by Beergut on Aug 13, 2008 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Powerback

that’s why they’re trying out Cody Johnson (255 lbs.) for that role.
I think Vondrell McGee would be good here as well since he’s a great inside runner. There’s no reason the zone-read/dive back has to be a fullback type, he just needs to be an inside runner.
Wasn’t it OU that started the trend of using faster fullbacks in the Wishbone to make the dive option a more explosive threat? Regardless, I’m excited about using the zone-read triple option this year.

by RolloTamasi on Aug 14, 2008 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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