The A-11 Formation
This gimmicky formation could be the solution to our problems. I would like to see Beergut's breakdown of this, and see if anyone else has seen something like this
over 3 years ago
vy til i die
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At the big 12 level?
Consistent use=QB death. To even contemplate it, you need 8-9 quality receiving threats, and two accurate, mobile QBs whose bones are made of granite (and who can catch/throw blocks). The QB often would have to dispose of the ball within two seconds, and a shallow disciplined zone combined with an OU caliber pass rush would make this a recipe for disaster. It could work great a few times, until defenses had some film to break down, but I think at Texas it would really just give GD a new way of calling a WR screens.
The Tedford faithful have already done a breakdown for use at Cal.. They are most optimistic than I am.
As for other similar uses, I’ve seen them break stuff like this out in the NFL (I think it was a Steeler’s preseason game), where the whole line shifts to one side of the field. Results were mixed, but it can result in a big play off a sleeping defense.
I was thinking of the "swinging gate"
blank”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swinging_Gate(American_football).
re: swinging gate
I remember practicing (for and against) that in HS. First time, it was weird to see, but after the surprise was gone, wasn’t too hard to stop.
by vy til i die on Aug 3, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Florida used it last year
against LSU for 1 play. Tebow and three lineman with bunch formations of receivers on either side. The announcer was like wtf is this, and LSU’s D-line was dumbfounded like “what are we supposed to do?” However the use was as a trick play. Extended use wouldnt be as effective.
Potential
Seems like the basic ploy of running plays out of a ‘punting’ formation might open up some interesting but less extreme possibilities. Substitute a couple of tight ends for your tackles, set your second QB as an I back and you’re in business.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
I saw this over on Barking Carnival
It looks intriguing until you begin to break it down.
No matter how many people they split out, you can only have five potential receivers on any given pass play, and one of them is going to be standing next to whichever player is QB. The idea of having two QBs sounds terrific and deceptive, but reality is, one of the two will be passing more than the other, so you’ll be able to tell which one you really need to watch for after doing some scouting.
The idea of having the two TEs aligned next to the center as eligible receivers is asinine, b/c there is no way to have them aligned on the field and not have them covered, so they are never eligible receivers.
This leaves the other six potential receivers. You need 7 men on the LOS, so four of those six are going to be on the line, meaning two are covered and therefore ineligible receivers. If you teach your DBs to recognize eligible-ineligible receivers upon coming to the LOS, you’re left with only the 4 receivers they need to cover.
More later....You don't get it
This is a punting formation and everyone is eligible.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
As a practical matter, he's probably right
The California Golden Blog link I put up above notes that under NCAA rules the A-11 is probably illegal, at least as a general rule. If that’s the case, it couldn’t be run under the kicking exception with so many eligible players.
by learned hand on Aug 6, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
it doesn't matter that it is a punting formation
That doesn’t automatically make covered receivers eligible.
Yes it does
There is a limit of six players going downfield for the pass, but they can be any of the 11. (Of course, without the kicking exception the whole thing is moot.)
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
I think the kicking issue...
... was something along the lines of “it must be obvious that a kick may be attempted.” Well, Colt just needs to pooch punt out of it one time and we may attempt a kick at any time. I think the people that said that assumed that most QB’s can’t punt. As far as Beergut is concerned, at the HS level, this is totally legal, and anyone can go down and catch a pass. They have a blog, and the referees have looked at this specifically and decided that it’s ok. They have some game film up over there for you to look at. They mix in some I-Form and shotgun near the goal line, but they use the A-11 most of the time. I see that the defense has some success just storm blitzing that 3-man line, and it’s very high school, in that most of the throws are just prayers tossed into coverage, but you can see some potential if only as a change-up package. Lining up four wideouts on one side and three on another has got to confuse some DBs for a few plays at least.
my argument is not that this is somehow illegal
I don’t see how this being a punt formation makes covered receivers somehow eligible now.
Is there a rule clarifying this?
I watched the half of film on their site. If you notice, the covered receiver stay in as blockers.
I think that that was only convenient
As they’re usually needed to block. I would imagine the “covered up” rule is eliminated in this situation so that you don’t get called for having ineligible players downfield trying to cover the punt too early or something. I don’t have a rulebook or anything, but I’d imagine you can find one.
A-11 running game
Okay, since we’ve established that you only have 4/5 receivers like a normal spread, let’s move on to the running game.
The center and two “TEs” are blocking linemen, not potential receivers. Therefore, they are just blockers. I would put a NT right up on the center, having him stunt and slant to different A-gaps.
I would put two LB/DE types on the outside of these three blockers, lined up about 1/2 yd to 1 yd outside the TEs’ shoulders. The job of these two LBs is to completely shut down the running game of the two “QBs”. These two are aligned 7 yds back, so they will have plenty of time to see handoffs. Even if it is only playaction, one can jack the back as he tries to get out of the backfield into his route, while the other rushes the passer. The distance from the LOS and their outside alignment would give them angles to shut down any attempts to run wide, and give them plenty of time to stuff any attempts to run up the middle (to take advantage of the 3-on-1 blocking on the NT). Even if they attempted to pull or trap their two TEs to get a lead blocker, the LBs would be able to jam inside and stuff the run before it gets started.
I just don’t think this scheme is all that great.
If you want a trick formation, go with the Lonesome Polecat or Mike Leach’s Ninja series that he ran at OU and Tech.
You still don't get -NT
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
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