Colt and Chiles at Same Time?

by hornshoops on Sep 23, 2008 9:07 PM CDT Comment 28 comments

This is probably nothing new but...

It's clear that we have trouble running the ball and it is entirely possible that our two best rushers are Colt McCoy and John Chiles. (Colt 7.8 ypc, Chiles 5.0 ypc).

I know we have the Q package for Chiles, and that we have worked him in at receiver some. I might be crazy, but I don't understand why we need to rotate Colt and Chiles so that we only have one of them on the field.

Why don't we get Colt and Chiles on the field more at the same time...even have them both in the same backfield occasionally?

I hate the idea of taking Colt off the field in favor of a guy who is much less experienced. However, using Chiles like the Stealers used Kordell Stewart (letting him throw, run, receive) just a handful of plays a game with Colt on the field too could be productive.

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Um...

How big are your hands?

by Horn Brain on Sep 23, 2008 9:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I like the Idea too

We could use Chiles as a Jeremy Macklin or a Pearcy Harvin, with that extra deminsion of throwing the ball. He is explosive and the way the Q package has been used i don’t see Texas doing this.

Even having him on the field gives our opponents that much more to prepare for. If Mack and Greg had were smart we would see this a lot against Arkansas for two reasons.

1. Because we need that extra play maker on offense now more then ever (Irby Injury)

2. Like i said it gives our opponents that much more to work for, meaning OU will have to plan for Chiles!

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by blazzinken on Sep 23, 2008 11:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Works for me

It should be pretty easy to play them both at the same time since they are both versatile all around athletes. With Chiles at QB and Colt at WR, the horns get a really deadly running QB (of course colt is pretty good running QB as well) and a chance for Colt to avoid wear and tear for one play. It permits the horns to change their O look and feel completely by just switching Colt and Chiles around.

One play I like out of this formation (i.e. colt at WR and chiles at QB) is Chiles rolling left and pitching to Colt (initially at WO on the left side) on a reverse as Colt runs to the right. Colt could then throw a pass versus a D that was going the wrong way and was probably committed to stopping Chiles from running. If the D does not honor Chiles running the ball, he just keeps it.

The possibilities when both Chiles and colt are in the game at the same time are mind boggling.

by Kafka on Sep 24, 2008 12:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

We're about boggled shitless here by now.

You can’t deny that the Q series so far has this definite kafkaesque quality….

by whills on Sep 24, 2008 1:52 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Colt as a WR?

I don’t know about that one. Can he even catch? I would have a play where Chiles throws him a pass every now and then, but thats it. Chiles needs to have the same role Romance Taylor did in 2005. Colt needs to remain at the QB position for atleast 90% of the game.

by Longhorns84 on Sep 24, 2008 8:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No no no

Colt should never line up as a WR. Colt should never be a blocker on a misdirect snap. Colt should never be anything besides a QB. Fucking hell, look at his numbers, and realize despite whatever chicanery you hope to gain is offset by taking our best position player out of his position, and putting him in danger of cheap hits.

I’m all for using Chiles, but it seems idiotic to do so while the game is still in question, at the expense of Colt. Get Chiles touches at RB, WR, whatever. But why would you take the ball out of your most productive players hands to do so?

by BoddickerIsClutch on Sep 24, 2008 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs

agree

by Longhorns84 on Sep 24, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the Q package is garbage

this package has almost 2 years to be somewhat effective, but in reality it hasnt brought any long runs, it hasnt produced a “explosive” TDs. when the team lines up colt to the outside as a wide reciever in the back of my mind im thinking send colt in motion and run a WR (colt) pass or put chiles out wide put him in motion to take a direct snap and have colt do one of those tom brady “oops the ball went over my head fakes”. shit at this point have chiles do one of those GOD-AWFUL tebow jump passes that everyone seems to bust a nut for. if we know that trick plays make the players and fans happy then they should put some thought behind them. until then, the Q package doesnt stand for anything other than the “queef” package.

by kcc28 on Sep 24, 2008 9:41 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs

Maybe it's an orange herring. nt

by whills on Sep 24, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

NO NO NO AGAIN

Colt is the key to are offense why would he line up any were else to increase the risk of injury? That would be really stupid hell its scary enough watching him run. Chiles on the other hand sure put him at WR, RB, or just QB for some draws….but don’t even think colt should line up any were but QB

by JBHOOKEM22 on Sep 24, 2008 9:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

unless he was going to throw the ball

every time colt splits wide, he’s used as a decoy and every team we are going to play know it too. but if we actually use him in that situation just once and use it for a momentum grabber then hell why not? if we are down to oklahoma early and have a chance to steal momentum lets use it. we all know that oklahoma is a sucker for a trick play or two dont you remember the fiesta bowl with boise state?

by kcc28 on Sep 24, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

Why the hell not?

People headhunt if your star QB is not lined up as a QB, thats why. He will get creamed on every opportunity possible.

If you want magical trick play momentum grabber, you sure as hell can make some up that dont involve putting your QB, and therefore the rest of your entire season, at risk.

Did you ever see Vince, Mock, Simms, Applewhite, or Brown line up as a WR? Hell no. Why then should Colt? Because Chiles is this awesome passer waiting at the #2 QB spot?

by BoddickerIsClutch on Sep 24, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

we didnt have a Q package with those qbs

i dont agree with your head hunting comment because the defense is already in head hunt mode and have colt on the radar to begin with. its not like the defense is saying ok colt his at WR now we can hit him. they try to hit him on every play to begin with

by kcc28 on Sep 24, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

In one situation

He is behind 5-6 guys to protect him, along with special ruleset to further protect him.

In the other situation, he is along by himself with CBs, Safeties, and LBs running at full gait. There is a difference.

And that we didnt have a Q package is exactly my point, we dont need it, and we shouldnt have any package that puts your starting QB in any position other than under center.

by BoddickerIsClutch on Sep 24, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, VY did catch a pass.

Can’t remember if he was lined up wide, but that pass was for about 40 yards, so I suspect he was out of his normal position.

The classic RB throwback pass to the QB is probably still in the playbook, a variant of the wheel route, with the QB going downfield after the handoff/toss to the RB in the opposite direction. The key part of this play is having a minimum of receivers out, just enough to influence the flow to the pitch side. This would be ideal for Colt since that pass is usually not in traffic and away from the LBs.

Theoretical question: how many quarters would it have taken Applewhite to get 40 yards down the field?

by whills on Sep 24, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

The RB pass does not have the QB player lined up as a WR.

by BoddickerIsClutch on Sep 24, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know that and should have said it explicitly then.

The QB handoff/pitch to the RB is a crucial part of the play.

What I didn’t know was whether the pass to VY was a RB pass or was he split out. That’s on video but don’t have time to hunt it down at the moment. However, that is the only time I remember VY catching a pass.

BiC, I agree in general we really don’t need to be splitting Colt out. If Chiles is going to be the man (at least for some period), let him be the man.

by whills on Sep 24, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Heh I think I found who threw that pass...

When I was looking up Ramonce’s numbers for another post.

Yup, Ramonce’s only career pass, against Missou in 2004.

Where Vince was lined up for a single play in his career even doesn’t really matter. Its having an actual package that we are trying to work (ie multiple times in multiple games) that worries me.

I think people get too enamored with this dual QB thing, when really its been far less successful than it has worked. And I dont know of any system that has tried to do it with an excellent quality starter such as Colt and had it work.

Let the QB be the QB, everything else should be what gets tricked up and switched around.

But yes, I am not against the occasional QB wheel route HB option, in fact thats a perfect example of how to do a momentum changing trick play without having to line Colt up outside the tackles.

by BoddickerIsClutch on Sep 24, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

True, the Q is a gimmick to get another player on the field

and maybe provide some deception. After the Miami game, you might see some more single wing type plays, but they get pulled out ever so often anyway. Right now, all I think the mythical Q Package is effectively doing is worrying opposing DCs, which is OK.

Despite the problems with not having a “designated and blessed” RB and perhaps at TE now, the Horn offense is functioning great as the OL gets better and better. It ain’t broke by a long shot. Right now the Horns can line up and come at you just as they are. It’s the O line and Colt that are the key parts of the offense.

by whills on Sep 24, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I doubt that...

..DC’s are losing sleep over Chiles being in the game. Yes, he’s an exceptional talent who, if utilized correctly, can be a threat to the defense, but the coaching staff has failed to give me any reason to hope that the Q package is anything but a gimmicky way of giving the ball to Chiles. That one pass does not constitute as proof either. UTEP “stopped” the Q package just by their formation. So, if for some reason ever takes off, all the d-coord. has to do is to copy UTEP…wow, how bad does that sound?

by vy til i die on Sep 24, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Down wind from a slaughterhouse bad.

It’s one of those ignore-at-your-own-peril situations; most coaches can safely ignore it. But the way things have gone, some ~~sucker~~ coach might draw the black bean and be damaged by the mythical Q Series (mQS).

As luck would have it, that will probably be Art Briles. That’s been a butt ugly game the last few years anyway. Speed merchants on parade sounds more appealing to me. Although we’re a little faster than UConn.

by whills on Sep 24, 2008 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

a little..nt whills

by vy til i die on Sep 25, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Q shmue!

Lets run a variation of this.

Granted I have watched ~~sub~~ absolute zero Penn State football, in fact all I have seen is in those three 18 second Youtube vids, but already I like its concept better than the Q, whatever that is.

Chiles at WIlliams’ spot, Fozzy in the backfield, CJ at Fullback spot, Quan or Ship out wide.

Or mix it up with Chiles at the RB, Ship at Williams’ spot, and Quan out wide. You could even run the HB option out like this with the TE releasing after the pitch.

by BoddickerIsClutch on Sep 25, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course I drool

at the thought of an effective triple option and, as had been noted via chrisapplewhite {reiterated by beergut} that such an option is possible by the Horns, so there is some lusting for the deception of those old triple option, although frankly, I’m enjoying the present offense and just want to enhance it.

After viewing those videos, I can immediately say that running such plays would buy Shipley time for double moves as well. And with switching out the various RBs we have, there are different tactics this attack could take. Have a tough CB out there? Tenderize him by sending CoJo on a sweep at full speed, follow up a few plays later with Fozzy or Shipley. So, you’re quite right about what this can add to the Horns attack. The point is the Horns needs to employ all their weapons to a greater degree than they are now.

And this line from your citation resonated with me:

Something that should be clearly pointed out here is that the coaching staff may have finally figured out a way to get Williams the ball without the terrible telegraphing we’ve grown oh so accustomed to over the past couple of years.

Despite the flea flicker, the Horns haven’t been so tricky; the other plays were variations on the playbook. The wheel route is staple.

So, we’re really stuck in two conundrums: 1) trying to get a 5-star player on the field and in the mix, which is in the pre-Kindle racehorse stage for Chiles; and 2) the hope that GD will get to do what he’s longed to do (where I equate what GD wants to do with what we net denizons want to do, to some relative degree).

Nuanced, yes, but the two continue to blink in and out of existence and then segue in and out of our consciousness when they’re active. (Activating Control B, Mr. Scott!)

Combining the general credibility of GD (despite Chip Brown’s article and sometimes because of it) and the apparent wasting of precious assets (John Chiles), both radioactive here to some degree, should be generating a lot of discussion.

by whills on Sep 25, 2008 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i would like to add that i agree whole-heartedly…even as much as i did when i first posted this idea about 2 months ago, maybe be even further back than that. but the credit for this idea really isnt ours to claim, but more GD’s if he does put this into action. and like i said before; if this were to ever happen, it would open so many options for the offense because the defense would have to account for two QB’s that can smoke them in so many ways. for the record, it appears as though chiles has improved his passing (sitting at 80% completion rate ATT). however until he gets to pass more frequently in a game, we wont know for sure.

If You See Kay, Oh You

by texfan23 on Sep 24, 2008 3:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Really Sick of Chiles Bluster

This guy gets compared to Tebow, Harvin, Maclin, and Pryor. But their is one difference. They have made impact against the top talent in college football and Chiles has not. Does that count for anything? Either he is the most overrated player in college football or GD are really missing the mark on a special talent. Even Pryor has done more in a game and a half than Chiles has in a year and a half.

by realmccoy on Sep 24, 2008 4:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs