The Garbage Factor of the BCS...
...is IF the horns drop one, the polls are 2/3, and the later the loss, the greater the penalty which is the most absurd aspect of this moronic system we have in place. You hear that OU? No more at large title game berths for you.
That being said...let's get out the crystal ball:
I think Cincy will lose in Pittsburgh.
I think Iowa will lose in the Shoe.
I think FL runs the table until the SEC championship.
I used to think Bama would absolutely run the table...but they have looked pedestrian for a few weeks (22 is highest point total over this span) against inferior competition. I am still inclined to give them the nod of being unbeaten going into the SEC championship game. I like FL right now in that matchup...regardless, one of them will lose.
I think TCU will run the table along with Boise.
I do think the Horns run the table which leaves us with 4 unbeatens.
Now, the aforementioned is what is looks like on paper. We could be looking at 6 undefeated teams after conference championship games. Moreover, the scariest team in the country right now, IMHO, is Oregon. Eugene will be the latest city to clamor for an 8 Team Playoff as I am sure they would love their chances this season. I for one am very thankful we do not have to line up against them this season. But, in an 8 Teamer, they would be a fitting and deserving champion were they to run the table on the assumption they finish top 8 in the rankings.
Once again, I personally believe that the BCS will fall short of its intentions all the while the Horns will benefit this season from a high pre-season ranking. Not that they would be undeserving, the Horns most certainly would be...but there will be controversy in Iowa, Cincy, Fort Worth, and Boise (weak argument here...but they did beat Oregon...and that is looking better by the week) as they feel snubbed by not having the opportunity to play for the title should they all run the table. Doubtful? Sure. Possible? That is why they play the games.
What a disaster of a system we have to try and settle this with annually.
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It's a shame the greatest sport in the world
crowns its champion in the most bizarre, absurd, and convoluted manner imaginable.
Disciplina Praesidium Civitatis.
by zamm on Nov 1, 2009 9:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
but... but... regular season!
If you're so sure of what it ain't, how about telling us what it am!
by circa1015 on Nov 1, 2009 10:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Strange...
how few recognize that there is a correlation there. Perhaps it is the lack of tournament (which preserves elite, memorable champions and a significant regular season) that makes college football feel like the greatest of sports.
When we start getting cinderella tournament champions, and the media begins to weight all of its coverage to January, then this sport will feel pretty much like all the others.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 2, 2009 8:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not with just 8...
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 2, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But
I think 8 teams will not at all silence the controversy (see my post below), and that factor, combined with financial motives, will drive an 8 team playoff to 16 really quick. Then, as division 1AA teams see a more realistic, potential shot at future tournament money (which is ABSOLUTELY exclusive to them now), expect to see more of them jump to 1A, and when we get to 150 teams, the tournament will likely expand to 32, which, in my opinion, would be just awful.
I see the small playoff proposal as a Trojan horse. Expansion is inevitable. And once expanded, it will never be reduced, so there will be absolutely no going back to what we have now. The only way to avoid it is to choose an alternate path altogether, like a plus-1.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 2, 2009 10:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you have to expand?
You realize I do not have a problem with their dorky calculations. My problem stems from blatant shortcomings which they refuse to address and correct. Last season after all f the games, there were still 4 teams which could make a case for continuing the season. It literally ended prematurely. TX, Utah and USC pobably do not think nor believe that FL was the undisputed BCS champion. With an 8 teamer, I believe every year of BCS controversy would have been avoided and a true champion would have been crowned. Your fear of 32 div1 teams lining up each season is baseless. Any playoff would have to incorporate the bowl system. That component does not allow for a full fledged January madness to be facilitated.
8 teams. 1 national champion. The ninth team can gripe all they wish. There has to be a line drawn somewhere. Just don’t draw it between an undefeated auburn of 2004 and two other unbeatens.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 2, 2009 2:51 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
It will expand
because the moment you open the gates and remove hard elitism (which the BCS provides), people will begin to bring every legal, financial, and ethical argument out into the open.
Give an inch, and they take a mile….slippery slope….whatever cliche you want to use.
With the BCS, everyone sort of gets left out of the title game, so no one really has much a claim against anyone else. Again, you often hear programs and coaches use that fatalistic mantra that you have to win all your games or there’s nothing to complain about. But if SEVERAL 1 and 2 loss teams are allowed into the tournament, suddenly every single ranked team has a substantial argument.
Under the current system, most programs reasonably know if they are REALLY a top 2 team, and most know they aren’t (all irrational delusion aside). This won’t be so with an 8-team playoff, in which a # 11 team may feel it genuinely is a top-8 team, and it probably is, because in any given year there are maybe 3-6 legitimate contenders, and most of the ranked teams from 6-25 are more or less interchangeable, which means it will be more arbitrary, and thus more controversial, to leave out teams 9-12 in that scenario than it is now to leave out, say, teams 4-8.
Once the gate is open, and we’re no longer excluding nearly every team, then more teams will feel that they reasonably should be ranked in the top 8, especially when you get a gaggle of 2-loss teams ranked between 5 and 15, which will happen all the time. The pressure for equality and fairness will be greater, and the playoff will expand. Plus the money for 8-16 more schools in the tournament will force the NCAA’s hand, as its easier to succumb to expansion in that scenario than it is to succumb to a revamping of the entire system (which is what would have to happen now).
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 2, 2009 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I say again...
do not draw the line in the middle of three unbeatens…or arbitrarily between one undefeated and 6 one loss teams. Go look back at the final BCS standings over the years…no system could determine who is worthy over others in the years where is was not obvious. The system has worked less than 50% of the time pitting a true #1 vs. #2. I am sorry, but that is not good enough.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 2, 2009 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
8 teams would be perfect. nt whills
"A lot of people look for the easy way to do anything, in swimming there is no easy way." - Eddie Reese
by SwimTexas on Nov 1, 2009 10:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm just glad USC has stopped getting tugged by the media
What a joy it was for Mulliganville and I to be sitting in a sportsbar, buried in Trojan country, watching the Horns hammer OK State and Oregon laying the lumber against SC. USC fan hated us when we got there, but walked out silently in the end. It was epic…The Matt Barkley/Pete Carroll tug is over.. .
by BigGameBobLOL on Nov 1, 2009 10:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sorry,
but we should never be scared to face a team that lost to Boise State this season, barely beat Purdue and Utah and then happens to look good once they start the even weaker than usual Pac 10 schedule.
Facing Oregon wouldn’t scare me at all. USC’s defense has been giving up some serious points lately (ND 27 pts, Oregon State 36 pts).
I think losing defensive players to the NFL and using scholarships to stockpile running backs as if there’s some prize for having the most riding the bench in the nation has finally caught up to USC’s defense.
by tdwalsh on Nov 1, 2009 11:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Scared was never mentioned...
the Oregon team that lost to Boise is not the team taking the field today…they are clicking on all cylinders and executing as well as anyone in the country. Let us not forget that UT was one yard away from being Cinderella in 2005. USC, while a great opponent, was a pretty heavy matchup that worked out in our favor. Those teams would have probably split 10 games 5-5. It is just my opinion…FL or Bama seem an easier matchup for the Horns.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 1, 2009 11:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I was really hoping Oregon would do better in the polls
You bloody up the media’s favorite team and only gain two spots from it. Florida and Bama don’t do anything for me this year. I’d kill to see Texas vs Oregon for the National Championship.
by seth78 on Nov 2, 2009 12:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I've yet to hear any playoff proposals that make sense
Most who are anti-BCS whine about the fallibility of the polls and BCS standings, and yet every playoff proposal I’ve seen has relied on the same polls and/or composite standings. An even greater offense is that they don’t fix the major flaw of the BCS: allowing teams with more losses and no conference championship to compete for national championships. I’ve said it often, and I’ll say it again: no wild-card champions.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 7:53 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Why?
I don’t understand why having a non-conference champ win is such a non-starter. I think last year’s team deserved a shot at the title, idiotic conference tie-breaker notwithstanding. The wild card teams are always going to come from the top 8 in the rankings. Its not like Aggie is going to get a spot just because the went 6-6 and were undefeated at all 12 halftimes. I would rather have wildcards than have a playoff that had to include the Sun Belt champion every year.
The problem with the BCS formula is that it is expected to pick 2 teams. It will never get it right for most college football fans not because of the formula (which will probably always be a work in progress) but because of the idiocy it is tasked with: choosing two teams out of 119. Will there be controversy with an 8 team playoff? Yes. Will it be greater than the current outrage? No. People will bitch and moan about how their team was left out just like Jim Boeheim does every other year and then everyone will forget it once the games are played.
I think taking wildcards is probably the best way to alleviate some of the potential outrage. Conference strength is cyclical. Why should an anemic Big East get a playoff representative while the #2 team in the Big 12 (who could even be unanimously-ranked #2 in the country) is left at home because they lost to the #1 team on a controversial call by the refs and therefore couldn’t win their conference? Wildcards allow for the chance that one conference has two of the highest quality teams in the country. (I think politically the system would have to limit a conference to two reps and would have to have an auto-bid for a non-power conference team should they reach a high enough position.)
I am all for having conference champs getting an auto-bid, I think that is crucial so long as it is only the power conferences, but adding wildcards would not only increase the quality of the competition, it would help iron out the often incongruous nature of the regular season.
by Rickyspub on Nov 2, 2009 8:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Its debatable...
as to whether there would be less controversy with an 8-team playoff. Perhaps introducing the illusion of fairness (which is all a playoff would be, really) would elevate the urgency and the value of arguing for fairness, and we could conceivably see more such arguing than we do now. For instance, as is, most schools reasonably accept that, under something as elitist as the BCS, any one loss disqualifies you from consideration. I’m not implying they accept the BCS system, just that within that system, they accept that you pretty much have to go undefeated. We’ve all heard the fatalistic cry of teams left out of the title game: “well, we shouldn’t have lost that one game; if we had stayed undefeated, taken care of business, yadee yadee.” But the moment you have an entire field of one-loss [or two-loss] competitors, a lot of teams are going to be pissed off, and whats more, feeling their arguments might ACTUALLY make a difference, I predict they will be even more vocal about it.
That’s not to say the system we have now is fair, I am simply doubting the lack of controversy playoff proponents are predicting. I imagine the bickering won’t change. However, the culture of the sport, and its logistics, very well might, and that could be tragic.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 2, 2009 9:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The reason to eliminate teams that don't win conference championships:
The conference champions have already eliminated them, or rather should have.
A dumb conference tie-breaker doesn’t negate that principle, but rather necessitate fixing the dumb tie-breaker.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Big 12
Did not correct theirs this season given the opportunity.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 2, 2009 2:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Which means the rage should be against the Big 12, not the BCS
So why misdirect the missiles? Call for scrapping the conference instead.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 6:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Notice that I did not have 2008 as a BCS gaff...
but most people I speak with about last season feel the way I do about it just having this sense of an abrupt end. There was still unfinished business to attend to…but we will never TRULY know who the best team was last season…and that is a travesty.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 2, 2009 6:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The NCAA basketball tournament rarely, if ever, does any better at finding the best team
It just finds the hottest team for that window of time. The two aren’t usually the same.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 6:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is apples and oranges...
In college basketball, one player can carry a team…that is virtually impossible in college football.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 2, 2009 8:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with this arguement
is you have to define what best means, and to some it may mean the hottest team at that point.
by Wells on Nov 2, 2009 9:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Truthfully...
I would have no problem with that definition, if, culturally, we recognized that the Super Bowl Champion is simply the winner of the post-season NFL tournament, and not the Champions of the 2009 season.
But culturally, we do not make that distinction, and that’s what bothers me.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 2, 2009 9:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I see your point
and maybe they should give more credence to the regular season champion. The difference between the NFL and the European soccer leagues is that every team plays every other team. This make comparisons much easier and lends more validation to the season champion than the tournament champion.
by Wells on Nov 2, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the importance of the regular season is being overstated
Yes, college football has the best regular season in sports, but that does not mean that it must be this way. Frankly, in every other sport the regular season is merely the way of deciding how the teams in the postseason are seeded. It is the majority of the year for obvious reasons, but it doesn’t (and shouldn’t) mean anything to be a regular season champ. Regular season is merely the very large foundation that the post-season sits on.
That is what is wrong with college football. Because the two teams who get to compete for the championship are chosen arbitrarily, the regular season IS the playoff. We’ve heard this stated before, but usually it is said as if that is a good thing, and it isn’t. It should be like any other regular season, where you are simply competing for the opportunity to enter the postseason tournament which is where the national champion should be decided. The system we have now removes that opportunity.
If you're so sure of what it ain't, how about telling us what it am!
by circa1015 on Nov 3, 2009 12:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"the regular season IS the playoff"
That, my friend, is one of the biggest reasons college football is the best sport.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 3, 2009 8:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That usually ends without a true champion being crowned.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 3, 2009 11:08 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
In your opinion
Whereas in my opinion, the 2009 BCS champion Florida Gators were a more legitimate champion than any cinderella story 4th-seeded team that ever won an NCAA tournament.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 3, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Were they better than Texas?
We will never know. Were they better than USC? We will never know. Were that better than Utah? We will never know. And that would have been 4 of the 8 teams with Bama, OU, tOSU, and one other TBD joining the party.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 3, 2009 11:30 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
These are all questions that could have been asked of any tourney champ
by burntorangehorn on Nov 3, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. One cannot play every team in a tournament.
But all teams entering a tournent know that if they lose that are eliminated and there is no subjectivity. IMHO Texas, Fl, Utah, and USC are essentially alive from last year. There wad no closure.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 3, 2009 11:45 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Please forgive iPhone typos.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 3, 2009 11:47 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Please forgive iPhone typos.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 3, 2009 11:47 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I think most teams know that if they lose in the CFB season, they're essentially eliminated
Lose, and you’re probably out of the picture. That’s what I love: every regular-season game matters as much as any playoff game in the NFL, and almost as much as any elimination game in a tournament.
The only argument with much merit, I think, is that a team could go undefeated (Boise State, Utah, TCU, Hawaii) and not have a shot at the title over a team that didn’t go undefeated.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 3, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So...
How can FL be given a championship over other one loss teams? It is impossible to determine if FL was better than USC Texas and Utah. Last season was a disaster.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 3, 2009 3:03 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Again, how does a playoff fix this?
by burntorangehorn on Nov 4, 2009 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The same way when the final four is over...
there is an undisputed champion.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 4, 2009 4:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Being better and winning a game arent always the same thing
A playoff gets you a tournament champion. it does not necessarily get you the best team.
The BCS gets you a BCS champion, it does not necessarily get you the best team.
Generally the sports where the best team is also the tournament champion are those that allow a best of 7 between the teams. But even then, it doesnt always fall the way of the “best” team.
Like a post season tournament, BCS schools control their destiny for the most part of getting into the final game. Its on us we lost to Tech, its on USC that they lost to Oregon State, and its on Utah for dropping us from the schedule, which would have either validated or eradicated their claim to legitimacy.
Just like its up to a team in the playoffs to win a head to head game against a team they may or may not be better than.
They are different concepts, and obviously not equal in the minds of some, but you should also accept that in the minds of others, this way could be more entertaining.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 3, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Were they better than Texas?
We will never know. Were they better than USC? We will never know. Were that better than Utah? We will never know. And that would have been 4 of the 8 teams with Bama, OU, tOSU, and one other TBD joining the party.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 3, 2009 11:30 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
And I say to you...
that I think most tournaments end with illegitimate champions.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 3, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
See, to me, you have it backward.
I would say that most sports in our culture choose to value one small part of a campaign (a postseason tournament) over the entirety of the campaign, and the simple fact that most sports are constructed in those terms “doesn’t mean that it must be so.”
I think you can hardly make the case that most sports fans take a regular season champion for granted (that is, that they somehow assume the regular season champ is better than the postseason champ, as your post almost implies), but you can make a strong case that most sports fans do take for granted that the winner of a small tournament supersedes the accomplishments of teams over a long haul, because most sports ARE structured that way, and most fans seem to prefer it.
College football is the rebel of American sports culture because it refuses to conform to what I believe is a senseless and superficial principle. This is the one quality of college football that I perhaps enjoy most, and what’s more, I suspect (Yes yes, I know I’m arrogant) that it is a quality about college football that even playoff proponents enjoy about the sport, most of them just haven’t considered the matter deeply enough to realize they are arguing against their own interests (note: I am not placing you in this category, but rather giving my best attempt to explain why I believe I’m in such a minority on this issue). I believe most fans behave this way because they are simply caught in the spirit of the times and the ubiquitous pro-playoff rhetoric, which speciously seems logical at first glance, but, to me, falls apart upon deeper consideration.
To put together some of the above posts, its true that a tournament champion is not necessarily the best team, but rather just the tournament champion. And it is true that a BCS champion is not necessarily the best team, just the BCS champion. But I believe a much stronger argument can be made that a BCS champion is more often awarded to the best team than is a tournament crown. Personally, I still think the BCS has gotten it right every year; Auburn was NOT going to beat USC, they were this year’s Iowa, which playoff proponents conveniently forget because it better serves their agendas to do so.
Further, as noted elsewhere, the familiarity of the teams we acquire through following the regular seasons of the BCS contenders makes them more satisfying and familiar champions than cinderella tournament winners.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 3, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So why even have bowls?
Why have a post-season? If the purpose of the regular season is to figure out who the champion is, then why the hell do we play any bowl games at all? Let’s just crown Florida after the SEC championship game. This is not an exaggeration of your point. According to you, playing the NC game is a complete formality, and that any year that the #2 team wins the champion is thus illegitimate (Either that, or somehow the #2 team should get the opportunity to steal away the NC, but not the #3 or #4 for whatever reason). I guess Texas in 2005 was just the “tournament champion”, as they were a solid #2 behind USC during the regular season, which is what really counts right? Florida beating OSU the next year was another bogus result apparently. Nobody could argue that a team who lost a game during the season is better than an undefeated team; playing it out on the field is such an antiquated practice!
This seems to be the biggest obstacle between what we have now and a playoff. So many of the fans are so attached to how intense the regular season is that they are willing to sacrifice having a fair determination of a champion in order to keep it. Yes, a team that we may perceive to be worse than another may win the national championship in a playoff, but isn’t that why we play the game people? How many of you actually think that because of our Tech loss last year that we didn’t deserve a chance to play for a national championship?
The system we have in place, where out of 120 college football teams we simply “decide” who the best two are, often without them even having any common opponents, and often with them having the same exact record as many other teams, is flawed. I can’t believe I’m having to argue for this, but it is. I shouldn’t have to be happy that UCF won last week. I shouldn’t have to obsess over our opponents records, and then over each of their opponents records, to see how good our team is compared to others.
Do you think that other sports should instead conform to college football’s postseason standards? Should the NBA Finals, Super Bowl, and World Series all start immediately after the regular season? It is funny how these debates devolve into arguing points that I don’t think should ever be debated just so that one side can keep talking. If you are truly saying that playoffs are inherently flawed because they allow teams that don’t have the best record after the regular season to have the opportunity to play for a national championship, then I guess that is where we see things differently. As I stated above, that is absolutely not what the regular season should be about.
If you're so sure of what it ain't, how about telling us what it am!
by circa1015 on Nov 3, 2009 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What this guy said.
Bravo. Bravo. Bravo.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 3, 2009 4:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with everything you've written, on every conceivable level
but I’ll keep it short:
1) I actually would prefer the old system of crowning a champion after the regular season, and simply using the bowls for what they were designed to be, which was icing on the cake or a celebration game after the season. I’m too young to have experienced much of that, but I do remember a bit of the pre-BCS days in the late 80’s and early 90’s, and college football was more distinct form the NFL then than it is today. Plus, again, I think a champion is really abstract, and the sport itself, the season, and the teams are all bigger to me than the concept of a champion. The pursuit of a champion has become an obsession which has been hoisted above all other aspects of the game and is in danger of corroding the nature and the traditions of the sport.
2) I still don’t see why you would even have them play a season at all, as I still interpret your view to mean that you would throw three months away, simply to highlight 2-3 weeks. Qualification for a tournament, to me, is not early proper justification to throw away the importance of conference play, rivalries, Autumn football, and the dramatic week-to-week development of the teams.
3) If you’re going to have champions, then the more exclusive, the better. Several reasons: first, it maintains that the worst a champion will likely ever be, is a top 3 or 4 team (which I can live with, as most top 3 teams in college football are what I would consider great). Second, if you do buy into such competition, it seems more likely to me that in one single, hyped game, for which each team can prepare for several weeks, the better team is liklier to win than in a tournament setting, which throws the teams into a blender and the team that comes out the other side is either the luckiest or the one that best deals with tournament dynamics, not the team that plays football best. Third, the more exclusive the system, the more we culturally are aware that Champions are subjective, which I deem to be a good thing – I detest the illusion of objective measurement that our culture associates with a tournament, and I resent the talking heads who speak in absolutes after Super Bowls and NCAA finals: “well, they settled it on the field, they must be the better team,” meanwhile the opposition may have beat them solidly one month earlier, in a game that now counts for nothing.
I value truthfulness over an easy loophole that removes all argument, yet speaks in no way toward actuality. Most people, I suspect, prefer the removal of all argument above truth because they want things simple, and in black and white. So why not just flip a coin? The results are simple and completely unarguable, which is what most people seem to be clamoring for. But the reason most people wouldn’t accept a coin flip is the reason I don’t want a playoff.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 3, 2009 5:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have reread all of your posts...
And you make very cognitive points. But it appears to me that your interpretation of a playoff objectively crowning a champion would take on some march madness personality. I just do not see how this is possible. Based on your 2004 argument, would auburn not have been a worthy champion?
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 3, 2009 6:11 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
As I said below
perhaps a plus-1 will shut everybody up (myself included).
While I don’t think it necessary, we’re never going to go back to the bowl system that I prefer, and with that said, I would then prefer a system that preserves as many of the traditions of college football that I love, and I think the plus-1 qualifies.
And although tournament proponents won’t prefer it (as some of them, understandably, might be more enamored of playoff excitement than just fairness), it will at least remove the “Auburn factor” from future seasons and dampen the cries of unfairness.
And then we can all stop dwelling on our differences and unite once again as college football fanatics, and as Texas Longhorns.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 4, 2009 1:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We are longhorns fans first...
but we can debate a passionate topic civilly as we all have demonstrated here. A plus one would work sometimes…but in years like 2007 and 2008 it would not have worked appropriately. There is no justifiable reason one could give to the teams in the past the BCS put the screws to as to “why they were not good enough” to play for it all. Try to convince Texas after beating tOSU last January that they did not deserve their shot at FL who lost to unranked Ole Miss at home…while Texas’ only loss was to the #7 team in the country, in a hostile environment, with one second on the clock. And Texas is just one of three…USC and Utah would like explanations as well. But the NCAA hides from these explanations…making up lame excuses about class attendance, alumni travel complications, etc. What a gaggle of misfits and liars. They simply do not want to share their money with the “less deserving.”
I would actually be fine with the “play what is necessary” annually…but the networks will never go for it. They have to depend on something to sell ad space.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 4, 2009 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You assume
That auburn would not beat USC. But we will never know. You emphatically state it as if it were fact. More subjective rhetoric.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 3, 2009 4:51 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
There is nothing subjective
about settling it on the field. As I have said, draw the line…just do not draw it like last season. Case in point:
OU 12-1……….lost BCS bowl
FL 12-1……….won BCS bowl
TX 11-1……….won BCS bowl
Bama 12-1………lost BCS bowl
USC 11-1……….won BCS bowl
Utah 12-0………won BCS bowl
Just awesome clarity from last season. That is as subjective as it gets…
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 4, 2009 4:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Playoff teams don't all play each other either
Sometimes the best two teams never actually face each other.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 5, 2009 6:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, there is not a utopian way to settle it...
But when you have an undefeated Auburn getting screwed out of a chance to play for it all…or the debacle we had last year, it is FAR superior to what we have today. Are you truly OK with how last season ended? Truly?
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 5, 2009 7:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm am dissatisfied with one thing:
The Big 12 tie-breaking procedure. The national rankings should not enter into conference decision, IMO.
Other than that, I don’t think any team that has lost a game has a true gripe about not being included. For Texas, had the team that supplanted them not been allowed to bolster their case with a conference championship game based on a tie-breaker, I wouldn’t have considered it an unfair result.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 5, 2009 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And it goes deeper...
3 of the 6 BCS conferences have CCG’s. That aspect makes the process unfair as an idle team can either be rewarded or penalized. The fact of the matter was there was no clear cut #1 and 2 last season. They just had to pick two teams…marquee teams at that…to fill the slot.
Worse, the Big XII had a chance to correct that nonsense and they chose to leave it as is…so it could happen again.
I am all for preserving the regular season as much as possible…it is fantastic. But to preserve it to the extent that a true champion is not rewarded more than 50% of the time is unacceptable.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 5, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Simple solution
Dump the polls and computers. Use a selection committee and a straightforward 8 team playoff.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
by Caradoc on Nov 2, 2009 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You think that would reduce controversy?
No way. Think about when a two-loss Notre Dame, LSU, or USC gets into the BCS over undefeated TCU or Boise State.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Two loss LSU already got in over an undefeated Hawaii.
Expanding the slots from 2 to 8 just makes it more likely they’ll have a shot. MWC is calling for a playoff isn’t it?
by ajax77777 on Nov 2, 2009 10:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Again, don't just scrap the whole system because there was a loophole
Just close the loophole instead. The greatest sets of rules are those that can evolve to reduce problems.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK
But I’m suggesting a selection committee to take into account records, schedules, and all the intangibles. If the committee decides to take ND over TCU, then they will have to explain why. Sure there will be some controversy, but it will be at the level of arguing over seeds for March Madness. Not this existential howling over bias in the polls and formulas.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
by Caradoc on Nov 2, 2009 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The NCAA Basketball selection committee gets a lot of crap
but I love the idea for a college football playoff. With no computer model that is perfect, and repeated examples of poll voters admitting that they don’t even keep up with the larger college football landscape, I think a committee of educated people who follow the sport would be a great idea. Obviously there would be controversy, but that is inevitable. At least we would have people that would be accountable for their selections (unlike the coaches who currently influence the BCS standings every week anonymously).
If you're so sure of what it ain't, how about telling us what it am!
by circa1015 on Nov 2, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 2, 2009 6:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the simpliest solution is the best
And that would be two fold.
One, every BCS conference has to have some sort of championship game, preferrably a straight up #1 vs #2 and not done by divisions, but that may be too greedy.
Two, add a +1 to make a 4 team playoff.
I think the BCS gets it right most of the time, I really do. And I may be skewed since Ive only really been involved with College football since the BCS was formed, but I can easily see the benefits of the system, and how it makes me care not just about my teams regular season, but many other teams regular seasons as well.
Like I said I think they got it right most of the time, include 2 more teams in the process and you will lower the margin of error significantly. Add in real conference championships and call it a day.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 2, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well put
it makes me care not just about my teams regular season, but many other teams regular seasons as well.
That is something I’ve been trying to articulate for while, and I think you’ve done it better and more succinctly .
One dissatisfaction I have with tournament champions, who are often surprises and therefore not as familiar to the public, is that we are essentially forcing ourselves to celebrate a team that we just met, so to speak, which is awkward and empty. But the BCS forces you to follow the seasonal narrative of all of the contenders, and so when one of them wins it, you feel as if they are familiar and worthy, which may be the source of their perceived greatness.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 2, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ill watch Duke and UConn or whoever from a pure love of the sport/scouting mindset in college basketball.
But only in college football will I get pissed as hell that Indiana couldnt hold onto the win, or that Arkansas got a win over UF pulled from under them, or that Oregon beat USC, and who Boise and TCU have left on their schedule… etc..
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 2, 2009 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
And I think that would be greatly diminished in a system that involves eight or more playoff teams.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like the 4 team playoff
While I don’t see the catastrophe that some do with having a 8 or 16 team playoff, I think 4 teams gives a good balance between those who like the status quo and those who would like to see a playoff. It still keeps you watching polls and rooting against those ahead of you while also allowing for a little margin for error, hopefully leading to better scheduling and less controversy.
by Wells on Nov 2, 2009 9:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is where the +1 makes sense.
It doesn’t scrap the bowl system. Seriously, college football without big, important bowls? That would suck like Kidz Bop.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 9:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The plus 1
is probably the best way to get a 4-team playoff without fear of expansion.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 2, 2009 9:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In fact,
maybe when it arrives (the plus-1), we can all grab a beer together, and put this thing to rest.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 2, 2009 9:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, but not in Brooklyn
Maybe at the 2056 NFL draft?
by burntorangehorn on Nov 3, 2009 8:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm mostly on board with this
I think it’d reduce a lot of the problems, and would represent a solid compromise between the status quo and January Madness.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They did not get it right...
In 2003 or 2004 or 2006 or 2007.
The problem is the system determines who is worthy enough to play for some mythical championship. In 2003, USC was #1 in both polls and got bypassed by OU who got whipped 35-7 in their conf champ game.
In 2004 you had three unbeatens and Auburn was left to wonder if they could have put up a better fight than those chosen to play.
These re two glaring examples of the BCS just leaving too much on the table.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 2, 2009 1:36 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
why 2006 or 2007?
I thought Florida and LSU were easily the best teams respectively. If not they, then who?
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 2, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
2006 FL jumped Mich who was punished...
Due to the voters not wanting a rematch. And Boise knocked off a superpower to remain undefeated.
In 2007 there were 6 two loss teams and one loss Kansas. Somehow, it was determined that LSU was the most deserving. Huh??? From 7 to 2 in the rankings for the Tigers. There is no convincing argument for lsu over the others. They just had to pick one team to face Ohio state. It was a joke.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 2, 2009 3:29 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
You don't think
that Florida’s performance over tOSU, when compared to Michigan’s performance against the same team one game earlier reasonably settles that argument?
And LSU was, to me, clearly the best team of 2007. Everyone had 2 losses, but LSU played the toughest schedule, had better wins than anyone else, and both losses were in OT.
And even then, 2007 LSU is an absolute worst case scenario for a BCS Champion, which isn’t really all that bad. The worst case scenario for a playoff is far more cringe-worthy, and happens all the time.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 2, 2009 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No I don't...just like TT beating Texas who beat OU who beat TT. Last year UT had best win and best loss.
It is insanity. Based on “their losses were in overtime” is all I needed to hear to know our current system is beyond broken.
Again, my problem is the selection or anointing of teams is what I have a problem with. There is no objective way to determine who is poised to play for the title unless it happens to work out that way through sheer luck. I would support a flex system, but the networks will never go for it and thus, it will never happen.
I would even be fine with a 6 Teamer with the top 2 getting byes. The majority are clamoring for something more concrete and objective. I hope it arrives soon.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 2, 2009 6:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
3 Unbeatens is the most common complaint
And probably the most legit. Which obviously gets covered by the 4 team +1.
I didnt have a problem with 2006 or 2007, and really I didn’t have a problem with 2004 either, I thought OU was going to roll USC, with K-State being a fluke wakeup call.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 2, 2009 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
TT winning with one second left
Is a fluke. Succumbing to a 35-7 beatdown while the #1 team sits idle with no CC game to play in is ludicrous, moronic, and makes a mockery of the system.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 2, 2009 2:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Take it up with the conference that resists having a CC game?
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 6:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, you mean level the playing field? That would be superb...
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 2, 2009 8:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Precisely.
While the conferences can be fun, I think it’d make sense if the NCAA-designated championship authority (BCS for now) would establish criteria for conferences to get automatic bids, and have them be uniform across the conferences. These criteria should include in no uncertain terms exactly how conferences select their champions. I think that’d kill a lot of birds.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 8:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
of course, then you have to figure out what to do with ND...
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 2, 2009 9:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let them join or die.
I’m inclined to let them die.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 9:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
let em play boise...buh bye.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 2, 2009 10:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
3 or more unbetens
Or just one unbeaten and a gaggle of one lossers.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 2, 2009 3:00 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Great post and even better discussion
I am in the playoff camp and I think the BCS is a case of the emperor without any clothes, is aware of it, but is still proudly strutting around inspite of the deafening chorus of “Shame! Shame!” coming from all quarters.
To continue the metaphor, I believe the people who support the BCS are either the courtiers who firmly believe that he is indeed wearing the most resplendent outfit or are the onlookers who are aware of his nakedness and then comment to their neighbor, “he is naked, but so are all the other emperors, and I will be darned if there is anyone else who is more handsome and dazzling in their naked glory than our emperor!”.
by maroonblood on Nov 4, 2009 1:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." - Will Muschamp
by Mulliganville on Nov 4, 2009 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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