Should Gilbert Keep the Mop?
by orangetower on Nov 2, 2009 7:43 AM CST
96 comments
Horns blowout wins are fun and we have seen the past two road games come under the dominance of our defense and a revived onslaught of our offense. The recent success is bringing to light some concerns though.
We have a very talented 5 star recruit watching Colt tear up the Big XII record books and rightfully waiting his turn. The problem however exists when you take a winner and competitor like Gilbert and put him in a situation designed for mediocrity at best. The mandate is to run out the clock, keep the ball, and don't make a mistake. You are then given play calls for runs straight in to the teeth of eight man fronts with safeties no deeper than 7 yards off the ball. You are doing this with a 2nd or 3rd team offensive line and cold running backs. The inevitable no gains leave you third and long. You are then asked to complete a pass to cold receivers who attempt to catch your pass with their facemask instead of their hands, or who feel it's not necessary to stretch or jump for a ball that you are forced to throw over a linebacker yet underneath a safety while being blitzed again.
Such is the role of a mop-up duty, but is it the best way to groom your back up QB and up & comer? It seems to me that you would want to put him in real game time situations with a chance to perform with the first unit for at least one or two series of downs. This has not been the case for Garrett Gilbert. Would it tarnish the image of mercy on a beaten opponent to put in your true freshman QB for some legitimate snaps?
I like all that is Texas right now as I jump, shout, and fist pump every highlight. This is just a thought that I could only vent with my dearest of pundits here at the BON. We are on a roll and I am on board. We are at the level now where we look for ways to improve our situation and better ourselves for things that we will face in the future, hence the question. Should we give the mop to someone else, or change the model?
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it just goes back to mack's belief of not running up the score
we certainly aren’t doing GG any favors by “being nice.” our current back-up and qb of the future needs quality reps. I’m just waiting until the game he decides to punt on first down.
3/19/2009 - Dogus Balbay Made a Three-Pointer. Never Forget.
by burrito on Nov 2, 2009 7:58 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Didn't the announcers say at the end of Saturday's game...
that even Mack now realizes the importance of style points? I didn’t hear the discussion perfectly, but that’s what I thought I heard.
Which is strange, because you would think that he’d realize there’s no harm in having your QB-heir trying to play like it’s a real game.
I don’t get why GG isn’t getting more significant time either. It’s lame and is shooting us in the foot.
by TXinDC on Nov 2, 2009 8:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I woudn't trust Matt Millen for inside information on anything.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 2, 2009 9:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lmao +5
"We'll be baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!"
by greenspointexas on Nov 2, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Simple solution:
When the backup goes in the game, run the offense like the score has reset to 0-0.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 8:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Do you think Gilbert should get some reps with the first unit and that same mindset?
by orangetower on Nov 2, 2009 8:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to say
I’d be inclined to give him at least one series in the first half, provided the game’s not in jeopardy. And once Colt leaves the game in the third or fourth quarter, keep the rest of the first-team offense in there for at least one more series before starting to use the depth.
But I’ve never been a football coach, so it’s easy for me to say things like this, like I’m playing EA sports or something.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 8:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
reps with the first unit period... get him in during the meat of the game
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs -- ask yourself what makes you come alive, and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
-- Harold Thurman
by thanos on Nov 2, 2009 8:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hell no.
Colt is QB until the outcome is not in question.
Play to win the game.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 3, 2009 7:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
The game outcome is not up for grabs and Colt is our man.
The intent and suggestion is to merely get GG some real time action with the 1st team for 1 or 2 series of downs with the full intent of the coaching staff to drive the field and score.
by orangetower on Nov 3, 2009 8:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not Poor Sportsmanship
When you sub your players at the right time and ask them to do their best and score. The one thing Mack hasn’t gotten right.
by realmccoy on Nov 2, 2009 8:10 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree
It’s one thing to leave your starters in and still be passing every down when the clock is winding down and you’re up 3 or 4 TDs. If they can’t stop our second and third stringers, that’s their problem. I think those guys deserve to get on the field and show what they can do, aside from the fact that it’s better for our future if they get legit reps in games and not just run, run, run, punt.
by bassale47 on Nov 2, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't think they are trying to do their best?
They are trying as hard as they can to score, both for pride and to show the coaches they can do something.
by Wells on Nov 2, 2009 9:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Colt and Heisman
If you think Colt has a shot for Heisman – no
If no, definitely against UCF and Baylor
Was in Stillwater Saturday night and so many OSU fans around us were really pissed in 4th quarter with Robinson still in at QB and 1st team playing against Texas second team. Comment was that is why Texas and OU keep consistent each year by playing these young players as compared to others. I witnessed an entire row get up and leave while yelling loudly about this against Gundy.
by texascfo on Nov 2, 2009 8:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
On a side note...
Is Gundy on the hot-seat? As the announcers mentioned in the broadcast, he’s a great coach but just has never won against OU or Texas. That’s enough to get you booted in the Big 12.
I’d go read the OSU boards but… there are none!
by TXinDC on Nov 2, 2009 8:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the same thing when they lost to Houston.
Could they come after Sumlin?
by orangetower on Nov 2, 2009 8:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I seriously doubt it
the school has no history at all, and Gundy has them regularly in the top-25. What more can they expect in Stillwater?
And the fact that they tend to lose these prime-time games to elite opponents has somewhat obscured the more pertinent fact that they are involved in prime-time games at all. In years past, Texas-OSU would have been an 11am kick with a limited regional audience, and the spread would have been huge.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 2, 2009 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gundy is a Cowboy legend
And he lets Boone Pickens think that he runs the team. He’s not going anywhere any time soon.
by bassale47 on Nov 2, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there isn't one here on SBN
But Orange Power is a pretty big one.
by seth78 on Nov 2, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he needs the experience
They are putting GG in the game for pure stadium experience. By getting him in the for a few plays it goes a long ways for next season. It won’t be the first time he’s stepped on the field against college athletes. It will benefit him in the long run, even just running a few plays per game
by Dawnpatrol on Nov 2, 2009 8:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think I fully agree
It will benefit him in the long run, even just running a few plays per game
Sure the exposure is fine, but at what cost? We’re not talking about a nervous nelly who has jelly legs in big game situations. This kid has 2 Texas State Championships under his belt and holds the all time highschool passing yardage record.
I think this really needs to be addressed and for the coaches to adjust over the next few weeks. The more quality time he has with the first unit, the better off we’ll be if he needed to come in for any reason, even if it’s for 2 series and then bring in Harris to close it out.
by orangetower on Nov 2, 2009 8:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I respectuflly disagree as well
The two reasons for using GG as 2nd QB and not redshirting are 1) To get him quality experience, and 2) Preparation for a worst case injury to the starter. If we assume these reasons are true, it makes no sense to simply have GG hand off the ball every down and play simply to burn clock. This is short-changing the team next year in terms of quality experience, and it would be potentially injurious to the team this year should the worst happen and GG becomes #1.
by UTexasCPA on Nov 2, 2009 9:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Through 8 games this year, with possibly our easiest stretch left to go, GG has 20 pass attempts.
Compared to 2002 through all 12 games Mock had 8 attempts.
Compared to 2005 through all 12 games Nordgren had 11 attempts.
Compared to 2006 through 10 games Snead had 18 attempts.
Compared to 2007 through all 12 games Chiles had 9 attempts.
Compared to 2008 through all 12 games Chiles had 11 attempts.
Point is, we are doing more. Id assume GG gets up to near 40 attempts before the season is done, which would put him far and beyond the most experienced back-up of the past 5 times we had a clear back-up.
Furthermore, I think theres something to be said for mop up duty, but theres nothing like starting a game and playing the entire thing. Theres only so much he can learn in the 3rd and 4th quarter playing an already beaten team. I wouldnt get too worked up about how many times he passes it in that situation. He’ll either step up when its his time to run the show, or he wont. Practice, and off season work outs are going to factor into that a ton more than the actual quality of his mop-up duty.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 2, 2009 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Noted
But, is it the number or quality of snaps we should be looking at? Honestly, I can’t look at that list and think any part of it was proven successful.
by orangetower on Nov 2, 2009 10:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whats a quality snap in garbage time?
I saw it defined up here as passing attempts, the opposite to “simply have GG hand off the ball every down and play simply to burn clock”.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 2, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think it's more a matter of not not not playing not to lose
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Defining Difference of "Quality Snap" IMHO
To me, a quality snap would be any snap where GG is in there and reads the defense in an effort to score the ball. If it is a predetermined handoff – that is just a garbage play with minimal developmental purpose.
Garbage time is still effective in getting exposure to the snap, getting somewhat of a feel to the speed of the game vs. High School. I would really like to see Mack get GG in attack mode and try to score the ball.
by realmccoy on Nov 2, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gilbert has been the QB on at least 4 scoring drives.
I think the perception of attack mode or a quality snap is largely subjective.
Gilbert has had drives where he runs, throws, hands-off, scores, gets sacked, etc. Its pretty much like hes been playing real football out there. I counted two drives, three at the most, that would be considered purely hand-off kill the clock drives, all at under 4 minutes left in a blow-out game.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 2, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
quality snap to me is that the game is undecided and the result of his drive matters
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs -- ask yourself what makes you come alive, and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
-- Harold Thurman
by thanos on Nov 2, 2009 8:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You want him to replace Colt when a game is undecided?
by Wells on Nov 2, 2009 9:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, it's not as if Colt has torn up the first half consistently this year.
we wasted many first half series this year. other than Ok game(which i wouldn’t have out him in), i don’t know when using him would have hurt the team.
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs -- ask yourself what makes you come alive, and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
-- Harold Thurman
by thanos on Nov 2, 2009 10:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
(which i wouldn’t have put him in)
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs -- ask yourself what makes you come alive, and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
-- Harold Thurman
by thanos on Nov 2, 2009 10:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I cant agree with this
You play the players that give you the best chance to win until the game is decided. Then you can worry about grooming future starters.
If you dont think Colt gives this team the best chance to win, I guess we are at an impasse.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 3, 2009 7:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not at an impasse but realistically, other than OK, which game is jeopardized
by putting GG in?
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs -- ask yourself what makes you come alive, and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
-- Harold Thurman
by thanos on Nov 3, 2009 10:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If the game by definition is undecided
Then taking out your starting QB is jeopardizing it.
I want Colt in the game until we are 99.9% sure that we have it won.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 4, 2009 6:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes,
And Chance Mock, Matt Nordgren, and John Chiles have all turned out to be elite-level quarterbacks.
"It's comin' home to Texas. It's comin' home all the way back to Awwwstin, Texas, baby!" -VY
by 2100 San Jac on Nov 2, 2009 11:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That isnt the point.
How many snaps did Colt get before starting? Major? Simms?
Are you really concerned that GG will be crippled as a starting QB cause he hasnt gotten more passing attempts in mop-up duty?
Or conversely, since you want to attack that list, would any amount of additional snaps made those guys “elite-level quarterbacks”?
The point was, he is actually getting more snaps than anyone in his position over the last several years with these coaches. So yes, the coaches are letting him run an offense moreso than anyone else had previously, not that it matters anyway.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 2, 2009 11:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Yours was a good point to show that nothing has really changed in Mack’s philosophy. I was just pointing out that GG isn’t really in the same position, as he is thought to be the future of the team, not like those other guys. Personally, I’m not really concerned about Gilbert.
"It's comin' home to Texas. It's comin' home all the way back to Awwwstin, Texas, baby!" -VY
by 2100 San Jac on Nov 2, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I mean, with getting a ton of meaningful reps, nothing has changed in Mack’s philosophy… i get your point entirely.
"It's comin' home to Texas. It's comin' home all the way back to Awwwstin, Texas, baby!" -VY
by 2100 San Jac on Nov 2, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
New Standard Though
Colt did not have any relevant snaps due to VY and redshirt. But we chunked the OSU game at home due to the fact that Mack and GD had no trust or feel for Colt McCoy.
With Texas trying to reload and be a MNC contender every year – what we did with Mock, Simms et al not that relevant – as each QB with the exception of Major was a real factor in not being able to compete with Oklahoma.
by realmccoy on Nov 2, 2009 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont know what we are talking about anymore here.
I was responding to the effect of garbage time snaps on whether a QB becomes elite or not. I think it does not, as our best QBs haven’t gotten many snaps before having to start, and Gilbert already has more than everyone else who didn’t legitimately share time with a mediocre QB.
Are we talking about OU now? Wont GG have plenty of real snaps before then?
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 2, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for putting the numbers together
I agree it’s not all that worth getting worked up over, but it’d be nice to see the team finish games. I suppose the lack of audacious numbers by the “second coming” is due mainly to the mediocrity of the competition for most of the season this year. It also makes it hard to stay for the entire game when you have utter domination and teams giving up (read: UTEP).
by UTexasCPA on Nov 2, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is that supposed to reassure me?
Saying that GG’s preparation is somewhat better than that of Mock, Nordgren, Snead and Chiles actually isn’t helping all that much…
In point of fact, I read that list and I don’t think that we’ve done such a terrific job of managing our backups. I do hope that we see a lot more of Gilbert in the upcoming games, and I do think that, especially in the early non-con games, we saw a lot more of him actually running an offense than we’ve ever seen from any of the above-named backups.
by Pflash on Nov 2, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How many passes do you want to see?
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 2, 2009 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The pure numbers aren't what is important
What’s important is the nature of the snaps. Like I said, when Gilbert comes into the game, play like the scoreboard has reset. Run the offense like you would if it were the first quarter with Gilbert starting the game. Obviously don’t run it just like one would with Colt, because Gilbert’s a different QB in terms of both style and quality at this point, but let the kid try to run it like the offense is making that opening-drive statement.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont know what that means
The offense Gilbert has run on just about every time he has come in has involved an even mix of rushes, passes, and even a few QB-keepers. We have scored TDs, taken sacks, settled for FGs, and punted.
He has also run out the clock to end the game, most recently against OSU. Is that the complaint?
I see him running a real offense when he goes out there, aside from the final drives of games. Is there something Im missing? The complaint that he doesnt pass is just false, he has already passed for more than any other back-up QB we have had in less games, with at least 2 expected blow outs left to go
I’m trying to understand what the complaint is, because I just don’t see it.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 2, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Really?
Do you really think the offensive playcalling has been played so as to simulate an even game? That is, that Gilbert’s being played like the starting quarterback? I sure don’t. I see a lot more clock-killing than anything else. Am I alone in that?
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ive seen Gilbert at the head of several series'
Where it appeared that the goal is to move the ball and score.
The only time I know playcalling is meant to kill the game clock is when its run, run, pass only on third and long. Gilbert’s serieses outside of the final drives, have not fell under that mold.
Against ULAMO: Gilbert had one series, 5 passes, 4 RB runs, 1 QB sneak, TD
Against Wyoming: One series, 3 passes, 3 RB runs, Punt
Against UTEP: Series 1: 4 passes, 5 RB Runs, TD. Series 2: 2 Passes, 2 RB runs, 2 QB runs, Punt. Series 3: 2 RB runs TD.
Against Mizzou: Series 1: 2 Passes, 2 RB runs, 1 QB Sneak, 1 Sack, FG. Series 2: 1 Pass, 3 Runs, punt. Series 3: Running out clock
Against OSU: Series 1: 2 Passes, 1 RB Run, punt. Series 2: Run out the clock.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 2, 2009 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think the coaches have approaching it like it’s an imperative to keep driving, so much as to kill time. Obviously such a qualitative assessment is impossible to support with citations without the video of each play, but this has been my impression. Perhaps I am misguided.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True, its tough to qualify intent beyond the run run run series or run run pass only on third and long.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 2, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the problem
You have a preconceived notion coming in, you apply that to what you remember from the end of games you were probably not paying too much attention to at that point, and then you ignore when someone shows you empirically you are wrong.
by Wells on Nov 2, 2009 9:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Preconceived notions are pretty common
On both sides, in fact. For example, there’s the negativity toward Greg Davis, which is based almost entirely on preconceived notions.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 3, 2009 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Throwing in the GD bomb
I think you are trying to get another 100 posts on this thread.
But I agree, preconceived notions are everywhere. I myself suffer from eternal optimism, described here by 54b as THE PROGRESSIVE PARTY BONER (no I am not screaming just too lazy to fix the copy and paste).
by Wells on Nov 3, 2009 9:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the point
I would like to see Gilbert in with the regular starters for at least 1 or 2 series of downs before bringing the 2nd or 3rd team O-line & WR’s on. The only reason is to become acquanited with real time action with the full intent of scoring rather than just running out the clock.
Every other position is groomed differently. Look at Okafor. Walters was another one early on as well. They are getting real snaps at full on action.
by orangetower on Nov 2, 2009 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Every other position is different than QB, you are right.
I can see wanting to get him some time with the rest of the first team, but I don’t agree with it. If its time to pull Colt, then its time to pull everyone else, for all the same reasons. Gilbert should perform better with better parts around him, but that doesn’t make his garbage time any more meaningful, especially when he is still heading scoring drives.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 2, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I had to come back to this....
I just watched a series on David Tua. Like most professional fighters he was put in predictable bouts with opponents he could polish his skills with, but most importantly build his confidence in throwing and landing his biggest punches.
I liken this strategy to prep work needed for Gilbert. He has been all everything at the highschool level and is now in a terrific position of developing his skills and confidence while under the tutelage of the all everything at the college level.
I understand your wanting to pull the whole team when Colt goes out but that is counter intuitive to the point of grooming your backup guy with the unit he would be playing with.
I think we can find evidence of how dysfunctional our offense can be when all the players were in different positions and adversely how functional we are becoming as the unit gels. Timing, trust, and confidence are keys to orchestration. That is the real point here, not taking anything away from Colt or the 1st unit, but adding to the strength of the team by building the confidence of the whole unit that if Gilbert has to come in then it’s not totally on unfamiliar terms.
by orangetower on Nov 6, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Play to win
This team is playing for a National Championship THIS year. Personally I will worry about next years QB when next year gets here. The only reason to take Colt out of the game is because we are way out in front and if you take Colt out then take the rest of the starters out also. What happens if you leave the starters in on mop up duty and one of the OL blows out a knee. GG will be just fine next year!
Rock on Texas!!!
by TXHorns on Nov 2, 2009 8:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
What If?
I’m glad you asked. That opens up the can of worms that gravely concerns me. “What if” Colt goes down? How ready would Gilbert be to take over “THIS” year for the championship drive? This is the center of my concern, the GG prep factor for the future is secondary to his ability to come in and be ready now if needed.
by orangetower on Nov 2, 2009 9:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
I think GG should get more quality reps than Mack is giving him over the past two games, but you don’t risk it all by leaving the 1st team out there any longer than necessary.
I don’t understand why the 2nd/3rd teams can’t be given the chance to run the offense in a blow out. If they screw up and turn it over or don’t execute then you can punish them by going into run-the-clock mode for the rest of the game.
It seems to me that Mack is more concerned about protecting the fragile nature of our conference opponents than that he has any real concern about running it up. GG got quality reps in our OOC games. I will be interested to see if GG gets the same treatment should be blow out UCF. If he does, I will be curious to see if any reporters have the balls to ask Mack why GG runs the offense in a blowout of UCF but not in a blow out of Missouri or OSU.
by Rickyspub on Nov 2, 2009 9:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think they are inhibited by play calls?
I don’t understand why the 2nd/3rd teams can’t be given the chance to run the offense in a blow out.
It seems the calls are so GD predictable that even the birds know what’s coming. I don’t think GG has thrown a pass attempt longer than 12 yards.
by orangetower on Nov 2, 2009 9:14 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Backup Offensive Cordinator
How about letting our 2nd string OC call the plays for the 2nd string players? What if Davis goes down in a game? Would his backup be ready to jump in and take over?
by JohnsonUT on Nov 2, 2009 9:22 AM CST reply actions 6 recs
+1
I rec’d this one…LOL…It may cost him his job.
by orangetower on Nov 2, 2009 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did anyone else read this title and think it was a suggestion for GG to cut his hair?
Just me? Okay. Carry on.
by billyzane on Nov 2, 2009 9:50 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
I did too.
And honestly, I was a little disappointed it wasn’t, because I had my stance ready to go.
by Meekrob on Nov 2, 2009 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I totally did as well
Then was a bit remiss as it forced me to actually look up stats instead of doos. Dews? Whatever.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 2, 2009 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was about to post this exact comment.
I thought it was a thread about hairsyle and was wondering why there were so many comments.
After I saw that 3rd down throw by Gilbert that he lasered while rolling out that Kirkendoll dropped, any concerns I had about how our qb situation would be next year were put to rest. This kid can play and I don’t think he needs a ton of reps each game. Can’t wait to see him go up against our D in the Spring game.
by 2Cor12:9 on Nov 2, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you see....
the frustration on Gilbert’ s face after that drop. Chiles gets hit in the facemask last week wiht a dart, and Kirk misses this one. The only chance GG get’s is one shot per game. That must be frustrating, and again, it’s not all about next year and the spring game if he’s needed later this year.
by orangetower on Nov 2, 2009 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i took the head fake something terrible.
see the last post…
by The Mack Attack on Nov 2, 2009 9:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If it helps,
he is throwing to receivers that were 1st string just 3 weeks ago. Of course they’re dropping the balls and showing why they’re now 2nd string.
It looks like a Gilbert ball gets there a little quicker than a McCoy ball.
by tdwalsh on Nov 2, 2009 11:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think there was a thread on BC about Gilbert being another Simms...
They complained that he had no touch and like Simms seemed to want to throw through his receivers rather than to them. I always thought GG’s weakness was arm strength…it certainly seems like he has more of a gun than Colt.
by Rickyspub on Nov 2, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I contend with any suggestion....
that Gilbert is another Simms. Huge difference in character, level of competition, and overall game experience. Anyone who thinks Gilbert is just another gunslinger is naive and clueless. Look at the kids video’s and you see him converting broken plays, deep ball throws, end zone fade routes and throws with touch while running either direction as well as the slants.
Simms went to a prep school and came to Texas so he could start early and get to the NFL while Gilbert grew up catching diving passes on his couch as a kid dreaming of being a Longhorn. He unselfishly stated he didn’t care if he redshirted his first year or played back-up to Colt & Sherrod. The coaches saw his talent and put him where he is, and it was for much more than a cannon for an arm. Mack Brown stated personally that he is most impressed with Gilbert’s command in the huddle and football saavy. My only question is how ready would he be this year if he were called upon and put in a game with the limited action he’s seen regarding game management.
by orangetower on Nov 2, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am glad you don't set your expectations too high for GG
but you are right, if he does not cure cancer by the time he leaves Texas it will be a disappointment.
by Wells on Nov 2, 2009 9:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Cancer He Will Cure...
…comes from the mouth of his critics. He hasn’t even played a full quarter yet and people are trying to compare him to diagnose him with a stage 4 comparison to Chris Simms. I like everything I’ve seen and heard about Gilbert and he will prove to be another great one.
by orangetower on Nov 3, 2009 7:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It seems to me that the first series that Gilbert is in, they attempt to score
Sure there’s no long passes… but up until two weeks ago, there weren’t any for the 1st team offense either.
On Gilbert’s first series in garbage time, I think they call it like they would for a normal game, for the most part. They might be a little more conservative, trying to avoid a pick 6 or some other huge negative play.
by notsofst on Nov 2, 2009 2:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree to a point
But it’s still with the entire cold and green 2nd team and against 1st team defenders.
by orangetower on Nov 2, 2009 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say that's just as good though
Since a lot of that green 2nd team might be Gilbert’s first team next year.
He’s getting reps along with everyone else that might need to step up, or people that he’ll be getting reps with in the future as a starter.
It’s not just QB that needs depth. I think so far, our depth has been what has really seperated us from the middle of the pack, and Mack / Muschamp this year have done an excellent job of cultivating it.
by notsofst on Nov 2, 2009 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't think of what 2nd-stringer would be 1st-string next season
Maybe just whoever replaces Shipley in the starting sets. Other than McCoy, Shipley and a couple linemen, everyone returns, no?
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Goodwin was in there with the B squad....
until two weeks ago. Now he’s prime time. And the linemen are really what I’m thinking about. Also, McGee is now in backup duties. Fozzy was there before he got the top spot too.
A lot of those guys on the “B”-squad are one injury away from being a starter, or even sub in to give starters a rest during non-garbage time. Getting them reps on the field every week is important and useful.
by notsofst on Nov 2, 2009 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree everywhere except at QB
If we lose a LB then we have someone ready. If we lose a DT, DE, DB, RB, or OL we are good to go. If Colt goes down then I’m not convinced we have done as good of a job there.
by orangetower on Nov 2, 2009 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that too much importance is being given to "quality snaps"
I’ve been perfectly fine with how we’ve handled GG. Throwing him out there with the first team, who he rarely practices with, isn’t going to make him any better. If we need points, then Colt is going to be on the field. No question. If GG is out there, then he is going to have a different responsibility, but each snap is going to be just as valuable. Even in junk time when we are just running or throwing screens I don’t doubt for a second that our guys are trying their best, it is just that the offensive scheme becomes intentionally unsuccessful. A GG pass is just as valuable whether it happens in junk time or if we tried to throw him on the field before half time. Getting him reps with the first team offense doesn’t help any because those in-game snaps (probably 10-15 in a blowout) don’t contribute anything timing-wise that is comparable to the snaps he gets with them in practice (even though those are limited, as Colt is 1st-string QB). I trust that if Colt was forced to come out of a game that was still undecided, GG would be prepared for the job. He would obviously have his shortcomings compared to Colt, but none of them are fixable by trying to get him more “meaningful” snaps in games.
If you're so sure of what it ain't, how about telling us what it am!
by circa1015 on Nov 2, 2009 3:40 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I'm Confused
You are neutering your own point. You first state
Even in junk time when we are just running or throwing screens I don’t doubt for a second that our guys are trying their best,
Then you say in the same sentence
the offensive scheme becomes intentionally unsuccessful.
So is it your belief that our guys are “trying their best” to be “intentionally unsuccessful”? That makes absolutely no sense. Why would you put the future of your program into an “intentionally unsuccessful” scenario in order to prepare him for a drive to the national championshilp.
I am not saying to keep the whole unit in the entire game, just give the guy a fair chance on a couple of series to make some plays and develop his and his teams confidence in him if needed. It’s really more about that than developing timing compared to practice. The whole idea is to get the..yes “quality snaps” in real time action with the first unit for a more seamless transition with fewer “shortcomings”.
by orangetower on Nov 2, 2009 4:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well
I don’t take back either statement. I believe our players are always trying, but in junk time the scheme becomes intentionally unsuccessful, at least in terms of success = scoring points. When we are up by 40 in the 4th quarter, the playcalling isn’t being done with the goal of “score points” in mind. It is to make sure the clock keeps running, keep the players protected, and get the younger players experience by calling different plays so they get game-time experience executing. If the young guys go out and move the ball down the field and score, then that is great, but it is really a failure on the defense more than anything if that happens, because a high school defensive coordinator should be able to stop a junk-time offense.
So, I’m not saying that Mack is sending out GG and then trying to get him to fail. I’m saying that when GG is on the field, putting more points on the board is way down on the list of priorities. And I still contend that the idea of quality snaps is an over-estimation of how valuable playing without a giant lead is. Because he is playing with a huge lead and therefore is not in danger of losing the game doesn’t mean that his experience on the field is any less valuable. He is still forced to get the snap count right, correctly read the defense, make sure his handoffs are executed correctly, etc. GG is learning everything that should be expected of him in practice and in the drives he gets at the end of blowouts; to send him into a game (and thus take Colt out) we are still trying to win so that, if he is later forced into such a situation, he doesn’t have jitters is nonsensical at best, and slightly insulting to the abilities of GG.
If you're so sure of what it ain't, how about telling us what it am!
by circa1015 on Nov 2, 2009 7:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Gilbert shaved the mop
I sat next to him to study last night.
by The Mack Attack on Nov 2, 2009 7:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
i having stopped laughing since i read this...
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs -- ask yourself what makes you come alive, and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
-- Harold Thurman
by thanos on Nov 2, 2009 9:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
glad i could help, even if it's at my expense.
by The Mack Attack on Nov 2, 2009 9:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i started typing a similar response and got lucky i noticed before posting... thats why it tickled me...
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs -- ask yourself what makes you come alive, and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
-- Harold Thurman
by thanos on Nov 2, 2009 10:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to see him work the entire second half against ucf
even if we have a slow start and are only up 10 or 14 points, bring him in during a situation where both teams are actually trying. it might be his last chance to see any valuable playing time this year.
3/19/2009 - Dogus Balbay Made a Three-Pointer. Never Forget.
by burrito on Nov 3, 2009 8:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
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