Earl Thomas and the Thorpe Award
by GoHorns on Nov 2, 2009 3:13 PM CST
42 comments
I was looking over the Thorpe Award watch list and noticed a few things.
1) Earl Thomas is listed as the only Soph. on the list
2) There aren't a lot of big name players on that list (Eric Berry, Taylor Mays, and Perrish Cox). Earl and the other 3 mentioned are probably going to be the finalists.
3) Seems like they left a name off - Rahim Moore UCLA Soph (7 INT's -t1st nationally, 12 Passes Defended -3rd nationally)
I know the Heisman doesn't like to give it's award to Soph. (Tebow and Bradford may have broken that sterotype for good) but how does the Thorpe Award trend with this? I looked at the past winners of the Thorpe and didn't see classifications tied to the winners. At any rate, I know I'm biased, but I just don't see how Earl Thomas doesn't win this award this year. Here's why:
Eric Berry - Very solid defender, hard hitter, but plays for a bad Tennessee team. The way I see it is Tenn doesn't play well enough for the QB's to test him all that much. Why test the best player on their team? For that reason, he doesn't get much of an opportunity to show his abilities. His stats support that. 7 Passes defended - t75th nationally and 1 interception (he had 7 in 2008 and 5 in 2007). Although, he does have 57 total tackles. But isn't that more indicative of his teams poor performance? I don't know.
Taylor Mays - 55 total tackles. That's pretty solid, but he hasn't really done anything else.
Perrish Cox - After watching him, I'm really not that impressed. He played really well on Special Teams against us and UGA, but strictly from a defensive back perspective, I really came away unimpressed. Although, he is tied with Earl Thomas for 1st nationally for Passes Defended (with playing 1 less game). Other than that, 24 tackles (5 assisted) and 1 INT.
Earl Thomas - Tied for 1st nationally with passed defended, 3rd nationally with 6 INT's, and 2 are returned for TD's (only 1 other player in the top 10 has that many - Leon Wright of Duke). But, ouch, only 27 total tackles. 1 Forced Fumble.
I know I'm biased, but his resume is quite impressive. Anyone know when they'll announce the finalists?
Good Luck, Earl. You definitely deserve it.
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As of right now, Earl Thomas should win the award.
Berry and Mays have the names, but Earl Thomas is playing lights out.
"Football's so important in Texas. On the West Coast, it's a social. On the East Coast, it's a culture. Here, it's a religion."
-- Major Applewhite
by Sunkist on Nov 2, 2009 3:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Eric Berry deserves the award...
The guy is an absolute monster. His team has lost a few games, but he has not been the reason why.
by the1austin on Nov 2, 2009 4:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
My problem with this statement is this...
It isn’t a career award. If it were, I would absolutely agree with you. Berry’s numbers are significantly down from the last 2 years. I don’t believe that’s all his fault. He’s really the only player on that defense that opposing offenses have to account for.
Still, he’s just not having the year that Earl is.
by GoHorns on Nov 2, 2009 4:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's arguable as to which guy's had a bigger impact this season
It’s close. But Earl’s been pulling out some big plays in big games fo big wins, so you’d think that and the team success to this point might tip things in his favor a bit.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 2, 2009 4:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They'll give it to Berry
But nobody deserves it more than Earl.
Actually Tennessee has an outstanding defense. Look at the numbers:
- in run defense
- pass defense
- total defense
For a 4-4 team, that’s not bad. Eric Berry’s very good, but he’s not doing that all by himself. Their offense, however…
Friends may come and go, but enemies accumulate.
- Thomas Jones
by beast in bama on Nov 2, 2009 5:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This time, with the numbers
Tennessee 2009:
25th in run defense
15th pass defense
13th total defense
Friends may come and go, but enemies accumulate.
- Thomas Jones
by beast in bama on Nov 2, 2009 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not enough tackles
Don’t forget that our D line is playing lights out, so our secondary doesn’t get a chance to “blow up” their tackle numbers.
by hornfan4eva on Nov 2, 2009 5:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I attended the Tennessee-UCLA game
and Eric Berry was the only thing worth watching in that crapfest. But I loved watching him; he’s clearly the leader of that team. I haven’t seen the Horns play live yet this year, so its tough to compare him to Earl..
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 2, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Watching the Tennessee and Florida game
I was convinced that he is the best safety prospect to come out in a very long time. Better than LaRon Landry looked. He reminded me of Sean Taylor at Miami. That is saying something.
by the1austin on Nov 3, 2009 8:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just wanted to point out...
our boy Blake Gideon is tied for 10 (with about a dozen other folks) on the INT list.
by TXinDC on Nov 2, 2009 4:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think Gene Menez is terrible
Sometimes I truly wonder if he watches games. His Heisman list usually sucks. He absolutely loves Tim Tebow, and I don’t understand why. He’s a Texas alum, I believe, but has no use for Colt McCoy on his list at all anymore. Suh, DT from Nebraska, is number 2 however. System QB, BJ Symons Case Keenum is holding fast at #5, after his Divsion 5 and a half school lost to UTEP.
Gene Menez has never seen a football a day in his life, let alone a game. Take nothing he says seriously. (Sans the nice things he posts about Earl Thomas)
by saveadre on Nov 2, 2009 4:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Why are you hating on Gene Menez?
Gene Menez has never seen a football a day in his life, let alone a game. Take nothing he says seriously. (Sans the nice things he posts about Earl Thomas)
This is absurdly ridiculous. For one, I’m almost positive that Menez does not get the reporter/sideline privileges bestowed on his counterparts (such as one Stewie Mandel), and thus gets to spend his Saturdays on a couch watching all the football he possibly can. Contrast that to someone like Mandel, who’s forced to travel to a college city, drive to campus, find parking, and generally spend most of Saturday focusing on one team. I say Menez has a better picture of college football than most writers.
While his list in no way reflects who will win (for that, check out Heisman Pundit), it does a pretty good job reflecting who should win.
Suh, DT from Nebraska, is number 2 however.
I don’t know what that means, but he has a defensive tackle (!) on a barely over .500 team (!!) at number 2 (!!!) on his list. And he’s right: Suh has been one of the best, and most dominant players, in the nation, regardless of his unsexy position and unsexy team.
He absolutely loves Tim Tebow, and I don’t understand why.
What? He has Tim “BONers: OVER-RATED” Tebow barely on his list at 8, while ESPN’s Heisman Poll has him at something like 2 (the site is down, so I can’t access).
System QB, BJ Symons Case Keenum is holding fast at #5, after his Divsion 5 and a half school lost to UTEP.
Since we’re talking college here, and not NFL scouts drooling over pro potential, “system” quarterback isn’t a bad thing. By the same respect that Leach was stumping for Harrell or Crabtree to be included in New York, Keenum has had a helluva year for a college quarterback, and should be recognized as such.
Something you didn’t mention: he has Golden Tate over Jimmy Clausen, and had Jordan Shipley featured over Colt McCoy (back when Shipley looked like the obvious MVP candidate). That’s pretty out of the box thinking.
by jc25 on Nov 2, 2009 5:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ok, Ok.... I love Gene Menez?
Does that help to fuel your man crush more? No, I do not think the best DT from a bad team should win the heisman. I’m sorry. And if you feel that way, then that’s fine. Eric Berry isn’t winning the Heisman either. It’s just the way it is. If his impact on the game was so monumental, I’m sure they wouldn’t be sitting with all those losses. His position is unsexy, as is his team’s record. Talk to me about the Nagurski, Butkus, or the Outland Trophy for this guy.
As for Tebow being #8. That’s part of my problem. Tebow can be number 8 with his less than stellar play, but still managing to get some victories is fine. However, McCoy is nowhere near his list now with his. What gives? There are other players who deserve more Heisman love over both of these players, but if you are going to have Tebow out there, I can’t see justifying not having McCoy.
And I’m sorry, but just because you play in a system where you throw for 6,433,993 yards a yards a season, does not make you Heisman worthy. If I can plug in (insert your mother’s/brother’s/aunt’s name here) and they throw for another 6.4 million yards, then I can’t give any credit to your stats or true value to your team. I would certainly rank Suh over Keenum on this merit alone.
He is right, Golden Tate does deserve a lot more Heisman respect than Jimmy Clausen. And one could make that same case for Shipley, but I don’t think it is as dramatic as the situation in South Bend.
by saveadre on Nov 2, 2009 5:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
EDSBS scoffs at your notion of Case Keenum as a "system" QB
The source.
by jc25 on Nov 3, 2009 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
HAHAHAHAHA
Oh well this explains it all. It’s true that Juice Williams could be the worst QB I’ve ever seen. And based upon Tits Analysis, I stand corrected. I shall never challenge the worth of Case Keenum again. He’s got the Tittays. I actually think the source of this bar graph is this kid….
by saveadre on Nov 3, 2009 5:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The first system QB to win the Heisman?
Andre Ware; 20 years ago.
by edsp on Nov 2, 2009 7:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
just saying...
If we are going to call Bradford a system QB then we might have to call Colt one too…
by the1austin on Nov 3, 2009 8:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a much harder argument to make
Bradford stepped in and ran the same kind of offense with the same kind of dominance as several other guys—White, Heupel, etc.—did. Landry has since stepped in and done the same thing.
Vince didn’t run an offense all that similar to what the previous offense was, and he made his statistics in much different ways than his predecessors did. Colt stepped in for Vince and has run a significantly different offense, with very different results and styles from what Vince and other QBs in the UT offense have done.
That’s not a plug-and-play system like what OU has employed for a number of years. That’s two very different QBs playing two very different styles of football in two distinct schemes.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 3, 2009 9:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When VY played
It’s true that we used the I-Formation at times, which we never use now. The vast majority of VY’s snaps were in the Shotgun, like Colt. The difference is that Colt simply drops back and passes and doesn’t rely on the Zone Read option to keep defenses honest, he does that with the short passing game. The offenses are different, and I would have to go back and watch some 2005 tapes to say this for sure, but I would say they are closer than you might remember. Most of our running plays still come in the form of a Zone-Read style option, the only difference is that most of the plays we run out of it seem to be designed gives and very few where there is an actual option (see the OSU game where Colt pulled and ran for a first down).
by the1austin on Nov 4, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The running was very, very different
Remember Cedric? The way the current offense employs RBs is very, very different from those days.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 4, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i remember him graduating a year before the 2005 mnc year
which is the offensive scheme i was comparing this year’s team to.
by the1austin on Nov 4, 2009 10:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So it's your contention that if this is in fact a system, it's only been around since Fall 2005?
by burntorangehorn on Nov 5, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
We run a shotgun based spread offense. If you are going to say that its somehow different and not a “system” then everybody else’s that’s fine. Maybe Colt didn’t start out in a plug and play system (a la Tech), but there’s no denying that the offense we have been running is now a true spread attack and could be labeled a system offense. When GG steps in next year, I think we will see that the offense won’t change all that much. Obviously when you lose the best running QB since Frazier your offense is going to change a bit. My point was that it didn’t change from 2005 to now as much as you think. In 2005, we started to kill off the I-Formation and move to the shotgun for the vast majority of the snaps. The main difference is that we used a true zone read, and ran lots of WR screens after at least showing the zone read look. Now, Colt doesn’t show the option as much because GD figured out that teams weren’t buying it since he isn’t all that effective running it (a fact which escaped GD in the 2006 season). The offense has evolved, but the short passes we see now are what we use to keep defenses honest (the way we did with VY and the zone read in 2005).
by the1austin on Nov 5, 2009 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess what’s missing here is why you think that makes Colt a system QB to even close to the extent that the Oklahoma plug-and-play system guys have been.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 5, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha
yeah, it was pretty much the same, it just LOOKED DIFFERENT with Vince! hahaha
In a play-calling metaphor, Vince could make Holly Rowe look like Erin Andrews.
"It's comin' home to Texas. It's comin' home all the way back to Awwwstin, Texas, baby!" -VY
by 2100 San Jac on Nov 4, 2009 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would agree with that.
not necessarily that Colt is a system quarterback, but that he and Bradford should be viewed similarly.
I think, however, it may be fair to say that any QB that is a running a short-pass, ball control, spread offense is open to the charge of system QB, and neither Colt nor Sam are exceptions.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 5, 2009 12:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would say this
Last year at the end of the year he, i believe he did have McCoy at the top of his list and he voted for him so I doubt that he has anything against McCoy. As for this year Menez stated that he believed the outcome of McCoy’s Heisman chances would be determined against OU and if he did not play well he would drop him from the list. Well I guess he made good on that, but then again maybe he should take a second look since Coly seems to have gotten a second wind this season.
by utbiograd06 on Nov 3, 2009 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As a D-Coordinator
Don’t you love the fact your safety isn’t getting many tackles? That means the big boys in front of them are doing their job to perfection. I know the safety position has evolved a bit into a smaller linebacker type position, but I love the fact he doesn’t have to sacrifice his body bailing out our apparent poor tackling front. To put a mark against his number of tackles seems kinda dumb to me.
by randomguy on Nov 2, 2009 5:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I guess I didn’t tie it to Earl that well, but I did say this about Eric Berry:
Although, he does have 57 total tackles. But isn’t that more indicative of his teams poor performance? I don’t know.
Still, the numbers are what voters look at. Since Eric Berry and even Taylor Mays have ridiculous tackle numbers, that will draw attention. Given that Earl has so few in comparison, that may be a point of emphasis with some voters. However, his INT and TD numbers may skew that back in his favor. I’m hoping, anyway.
by GoHorns on Nov 3, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Earl to NFL?
I have seen articles listing him among 3rd year sophomores who might consider an early jump on their professional careers. Makes sense, given his talent and what seems to be an inevitable rookie salary cap pool. Throw the $ issue in with what has happened to Bradford and it seems a real possibility that more underclassmen than usual will make the jump this year.
by rchorns on Nov 2, 2009 6:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Moneywise....
He may be best served to come back for at least one more year. Players like Mays and Berry are in the draft this year. They have amazing size and will almost certainly go off the board before Earl. One more year may garner him lots more cash.
by saveadre on Nov 2, 2009 7:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I figured he was a lock to return BUT
I thought with both Mays and Berry coming out (both much more physically mature than Earl) that Earl would definitely be back. However, I did wee that Earl passed up Taylor Mays on Kiper’s ratings. Not sure that means much, but I guess if he sees the first round he would have to jump.
by realmccoy on Nov 2, 2009 8:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Was thinking about that during the OSU game.
Selfishly I definitely want him to stay, but he has to make the best decision for himself. The kids talent seems to be endless. If he decides to come back and continues making the progress he has been making, it is scary how good he can be. Especially if he packs on some weight while maintaining his speed.
by randomguy on Nov 2, 2009 7:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally - I think he should return
He could use another year of size and strength and could mean the difference between late first/early second up to the top half of the first round. That would mean 5-7 million of guaranteed coin.
by realmccoy on Nov 2, 2009 8:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He needs another year
To fill out his frame. When he adds a few more pounds of muscle, likely after next season, he should go.
by the1austin on Nov 3, 2009 8:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
MNC probably plays a role
If we win it all this year, there won’t be much left for him to accomplish… other than 2 more MNC’s (I don’t rule it out). But you have to think that if he is first round talent, he is smart enough to have learned from Bradford (and the Steve Miller Band) that you take the money and run…
Of course, if he doesn’t, I will squeal like a 9 year old girl getting a pony on Christmas morning.
"It's comin' home to Texas. It's comin' home all the way back to Awwwstin, Texas, baby!" -VY
by 2100 San Jac on Nov 4, 2009 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rookiee Salary Cap
Don’t get to post on here much and haven’t watched near enough Texas games this year as I would have liked but Earl Thomas is one of the best DB’s I have seen in the Big 12 lately….Saying that I think right now he would go only behind Berry in the draft…My question is isn’t this coming up draft the last one possibly for a non-rookie salary cap?….I think that is one of the biggest thing being pushed by the league in the new CBA…It could make a lot of third year players leave this year….
by sportsfantx on Nov 2, 2009 9:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
There's already a rookie salary pool
Each team receives instructions on a specific salary pool. As I recall, teams actually have to ensure that they clear enough space in their salary caps to accomodate the entire pool. It is based on the number and position of each team’s picks, and it’s very rare for teams to not use up the entire salary pool.
So there’s already a sort of cap on rookie salaries, but it only applies to the players’ rookie seasons.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 3, 2009 8:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gene
hey he’s my friend….a cool guy lol. :)
by nyclonghorngal on Nov 3, 2009 9:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
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