Morning Coffee Dares You To Doubt Vince Young
Aggie game review. So I've finally had a chance to re-watch the Thanksgiving Day shootout with A&M and the big takeaway is... complicated. Which shouldn't surprise anyone, given just how far out of line the defense's performance was with everything it had done prior to allowing 39 points and 500 yards of offense to the Aggies. Reviewing the game itself took a long time to complete; writing about it is taking even longer, but given the implications of the performance, I want the evaluation to be thorough.
One thing to chew on while you wait: I think part of what we're seeing is just how much college defenses struggle to defend a spread offense with A-grade quarterback play. Relevant observations/questions/implications:
- Before even getting to the defense, this applies to the Texas offense, as well. With Colt McCoy making plays with his feet and passing to multiple receivers at multiple levels, our offense is difficult to defend again.
- We struggled mightily with A&M in large part because Jerrod Johnson was as elusive with his feet as he was accurate with his arm.
- We have to ask, first, whether this was the best offensive attack we've faced this year (while not consistent, at its best the A&M offense is arguably the strongest), and second, whether we should be concerned that the result was similar to the last time we faced outstanding offensive attacks -- last year, when the Big 12 was loaded with strong (and healthy) QB play. Consider this year's QB line up: four weak non-con opponents, first-year (and early-in-the-year) Taylor Potts, Cody Hawkins, Landry Jones, gimpy (first-year starting) Blaine Gabbert, Zac Robinson, Nick Florence, Todd Reesing, and Jerrod Johnson. Among the three strongest tests, the defense was stout against Robinson, so-so against Reesing, and scorched by Johnson.
The Legend Lives. I struggled yesterday to decide whether to stay at home, where I knew I had the obscure channel carrying the Texas basketball game but didn't have the Titans game, or venture to a sports bar where I knew I could see the Titans but might miss out on seeing 'Horns hoops. I ultimately decided on the sports bar, precisely because Vince Young has, as Big Roy so nicely wrote, recaptured the magic, and with it, our imaginations. Even if the sports bar hadn't found the Texas game, my decision was, um, the right one:
Do not doubt this man. Ever. He's been down before, but unless and until he's actually out... Do. Not. Doubt. This. Man. He's the football equivalent of Jack Bauer: there will be setbacks, ugly moments, things that make you cringe, but in the end, he wins. Spectacularly. Impossibly.
Titans fans undoubtedly thought we Longhorns fans were utterly psychotic with all our disgusted sniping at their doubts, but... yeah. See above. We didn't go to war for Ricky Williams when he was down and nearly out (though we always supported him). With VY, it's different: we're talking about what many of us think is the single best player in the history of college football. Until he's out, we won't doubt him. Ever.
Underestimate him at your own peril.
It gets better. Beyond the pure thrill from watching Vince lead the Titans to five straight wins -- while getting better and better each successive week -- there is now the very real question of whether the Titans can make the playoffs. While at 5-6 Tennessee still sits in the 10th slot in the AFC, they benefited from a terrific weekend of results, with Houston, Pittsburgh, Miami, and Jacksonville all losing. Only a Denver win over the Giants kept it from being a perfect slate of results.
While it's possible Tennessee could sneak into the playoffs with a 9-7 record, it's an incredible long shot because those first six losses to open the season all came against AFC opponents, which put them in terrible position in various tiebreaker scenarios. Let's assume that Vince pulls the impossible and wins all 10 of his starts to get the Titans to 10-6. Here's how they get in:
- By winning out the Titans deliver Miami (5-6) it's 7th loss, and thus knock out the Dolphins.
- Jacksonville (6-5) drops games to New England and Indy (or any two losses).
- Houston drops game either to Jacksonville or New England.
- Denver (7-4) drops three of final five: at KC, at Indy, vs Oakland, at Philly, vs KC, or
- If Denver gets to 10-6 or better, then: the winner of Baltimore (6-5) at Pittsburgh (6-5) drops two of other four remaining games, and the loser of BAL-PIT drops a second game. (Pittsburgh: vs Oakland, at Cleveland, vs Green Bay, at Miami) (Baltimore: at GB, vs Detroit, vs Chicago, at Oakland)*
Bottom line? Go Chiefs! Go Raiders!
Strong start for Big 12 hoops. If the first half dozen games of the season are good indication of what's to come, the Big 12 is going to be awfully strong at the top. A glance at the Pomeroy Ratings as of Monday morning reveals 3 teams in the Top 10, 4 among the top 14, and a fifth at #21:
| Rank | AdjO | AdjD | SOS | |
| Texas (5-0) | 1 | 6 | 1 | 69 |
| A&M (5-1) | 7 | 7 | 24 | 3 |
| Kansas (5-0) | 9 | 5 | 62 | 330 |
| Mizzou (4-1) | 14 | 43 | 20 | 231 |
| Okie St (6-0) | 21 | 29 | 47 | 269 |
Yup, that's right: After five games -- adjusting for competition and tempo -- your Texas Longhorns are the nation's best. I've been a KenPom junkie for going on five years now, and I cannot ever recall Texas occupying the #1 line in his ratings -- not even for a day or two. We'll find out a lot more about this team in the next month, but the early results certainly look great, especially considering this squad's incredible room to grow. (Jai Lucas isn't even eligible to play until December 15th. Think about that a second.)
Beyond the Longhorns, A&M's off to a great start with two neutral floor wins over Clemson and Minnesota, and a narrow loss to West Virginia. The Jayhawks narrowly escaped Memphis but have thrashed the rest of the garbage on their schedule. Mizzou's up high in the ratings thanks to several extreme blowouts of bad competition, but their loss to the only good team on the schedule thus far (52-59 to Richmond on a neutral floor) raises questions about their legitimacy. Most surprising may be Oklahoma State's strong start, which just ran Utah out of the gym to get to 6-0.
Texas opens as 15.5-point favorites vs Nebraska. Texas opened as 15.5-point favorites over Nebraska in the Big 12 Championship game, a line which has since dropped to 14 at several books. I say if you can get that line under two touchdowns, throw down the bet. Thoughts?
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Was the A&M game our Texas Tech of 2009?
It kind of felt like it.
-Road game against an instate rival
- QB that we could not stop
- Gave up 39 points
But, I think that is the difference in this team, and last years team. We may have lost this game last season, but Texas seems to be more mentally focused and mentally tougher than ever.
I remember typing this when Colt was a freshman after he knocked off Tech on the road. He has that it factor and will not let his team lose. That is exactly what he did Thursday night as well.
"I don't ever miss free throws. I'm like 100-percent from the free throw line. I just don't think about missing and if you think about missing you're going to miss. I just take my time and know I'm going to make it and I do," McClellan said.
The Dr. Saturday article linked in the OP
It lists some pretty remarkable, if meaningless, things that happened Thursday. Abbreviated rundown:
Against Texas A&M, the Longhorn defense …
Allowed more points (39) than any eventual BCS champion has ever allowed in regulation.
Allowed more yards (531) than any eventual BCS champion has ever allowed in regulation.
Allowed more passing yards (343) than any eventual BCS champion since the ‘05 Longhorns allowed 369 to Texas Tech, on twice as many passes (64) by the Raiders’ Sonny Cumbie as Johnson threw (33) tonight.
Allowed more yards per play (7.6) and per pass (10.4) than any BCS champion has ever allowed in a game.
Pretty interesting, really. I’m not sure what the hell happened that night, and I’m not sure anyone on the team does either. It just seemed like the perfect coincidence of atm playing their best offensive game of the season, UT playing their worst defensive game of the season, a shootout mindset, and a hostile situation at a spoiler-minded rival’s home stadium.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 30, 2009 11:24 AM CST reply actions
This is why the review is taking me so long
It’s a tough performance to put into context, and the stakes are, of course, high. One win to get in. Two wins for confetti.
Might get things finished by tonight, but looking perhaps like Tuesday, honestly. I’m going play by play through this’n. Not that fun.
You ain't hurt.
I'm in shock
The Aggies played a tune on our defense that I didn’t think was possible. I’m severely disturbed as to what our title hopes are, if it turns out that we’ve just been putting up decent numbers on bad defenses.
Honestly, it seemed like we were just a step behind on a lot of plays, so maybe it was fatigue. But it was really scary to watch that game.
by notsofst on Nov 30, 2009 1:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Correction
Decent numbers on bad “offenses”, not defenses.
by notsofst on Nov 30, 2009 1:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
But who has a good offense this year?
Even our own we are worried isn’t good, with Defensive and Special Teams scores padding our stats.
But the question is not really who we have played, but if you think that who we have left (NU, Bama/UF) have a markedly better offense than anyone we have played. I dont think they do.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 30, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
This was their real bowl game
PB makes a great point that it’s nearly impossible to stop a spread offense with a top quarterback playing his A-game. That’s a whole discussion within itself. The defenses, especially the linebackers, obviously haven’t caught up.
Johnson looked like VY in disguise. Add to this that it was their first big chance to put their program back on the national map and it was on their home field against their biggest rival. Mack knew all this, that’s why he gambled early. He knew it wasn’t going to be a blowout. I think we’ll see a different defense Saturday.
Thank you Marquise Goodwin.
by SpiritOfTheFedora on Nov 30, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
Johnson played out of his mind.
Extending drives with perfectly accurate throws as well. No one we have left on the schedule will hit the windows he was hitting.
The D had a bad game, but better here where we can learn, grow and teach from it (hopefully) than in the next two games.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 30, 2009 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
Now I know how USC felt
…helpless going against VY.
by SpiritOfTheFedora on Nov 30, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
Will Johnson Be Like Josh Freeman?
Freeman lit up Texas both times he played us, perfect in every throw and run decision and execution by his teammates. Then he’d go out and lay an egg against Kansas or Rutgers or Iowa State.
I’m not ready to give Johnson a bunch of hype until he shows he’s consistent. We’ve seen a QB like him put everything together against UT during the course of a game before, then inexplicably suck vs. the next opponent. Difference is this season we beat that QB.
Great performance by Johnson, just like by Freeman 2x’s. But he’s got to earn it over the course of a season to be legit.
Now, what does Muschamp and the 11 on the field do in 5-6 weeks to (first beat NU) stop a very similar Tebow with a much better supporting cast than atm was able to field?
Last Thursday night could prove to be a very important lesson – if they learn from it.
I was thinking more like McGee
Hopefully with a Senior meltdown to boot!
by BoddickerIsClutch on Nov 30, 2009 3:26 PM CST up reply actions
florida does not have better receivers
and tebow is much more mcgee than johnson
i wish people would stop with the flimsy comparisons
the biggest threat when playing florida is man assignment
the triple option is tough to defend
the receivers won’t need to be double covered
Not sure
that I would call Tebow’s supporting cast “much better.” At receiver, A&M probably has the advantage, while Florida has a clear advantage at tight end with Hernandez. As for running back, I would call it an advantage for Florida with their speed, but not by a great deal. Michael is probably better than Moody for instance, but the combined speed of Demps and Rainey trumps the Michael/Gray combination.
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Nov 30, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
It might be because of his stride, but Johnson looks like a much faster runner than Tebow
Tebow may be able to pick up 2-3 yards a clip against UT or Bama, but he’s not a threat to break one long against anybody with a quicker defense than Charleston.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Nov 30, 2009 4:27 PM CST up reply actions
it's super exciting watching vince young play football
i wonder if this is how life long michael jordan fans felt
on the outside looking in, i’ve considered michael the greatest
but was never a REAL fan
i only had one pair of j’s ever and i was 8 then
i never emulated my game after him and only passively watched the games he played in
but talking to people that were his fans they seem to just be cemented in his bandwagon
sure there’s a difference between 82 games a year
and 16 .. nba to nfl
but there’s something about vince young that i just sit down and watch
week in and week out, because i get ready to be amazed
i imagine this is what it was like to watch magic shows back in the days
meanwhile, let's hope to all hell leach never gets a mobile qb
and what is with chykie refusing to tackle people
he just tries to slam his shoulder into them really hard
Texas Tech
Forgot Tech on roundball who is sitting at 59 with 7-0, albeit with a terrible schedule thus far.
monday Mack Brown press conference
some female reporter absolutely attacked Mack over the 2 recent arrests… I think he was getting pissed (I would have been) but he handled it well. Did anybody else catch that?
A few observations after watching the Aggie game again last night..
We looked confused and slow in the defensive backfield and at LB during pass plays. Was it the new unis? No, Texas is a streaky defense at times. Yes, we are good, but not great in all apects of the defensive game. I still think we have a great defensive front. Our LB’s and defensive backfield (Minus Earl) struggle in the passing game. Late breaks on the ball and they continue to get out run. Hell, even Sergio was run over by a Freshman tailback and he was locked up and fell to the ground chasing the QB a few times. We just looked rusty and tired. Long season and short week will do that to you. We just didn’t have the attitude AtM had during the game. They were talking trash jumping up and down all night. We just looked flat on D. Will be interesting to see how Newton holds up vs. the Nebraska D. They are pretty intense.
I was flying home yesterday from Thanksgiving in South Carolina. I was deep In SEC territory and watched the game with a ton of SEC fans. They are not impressed or scared of Texas at all. Horns better buckle down and just take care of business against the Huskers. Get the win…get the trophy…and get read for a very, very physical SEC team in the Championship game.
Tell 'em the feeling is mutual.
Anybody see Alabama play? Anybody really think putting it on Florida State us a good indicator of team strength?
Really? Does my signature suck?
by adt2 on Nov 30, 2009 12:55 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Our DLine was slow off the ball the whole game.
Was A&M going with a silent count?
The swine flu takes a Will Muschamp shot every September.
by pleaseplaykindle on Nov 30, 2009 12:19 PM CST reply actions
Re: It gets better
Hope Denver will keep losing and VY needs to give a phone call to Jamal Charles & Michael Griffin for help. VY spoiled the Cardinals’ 5 road games winning streak and hope he can spoil the Colts’ undefeated record next week. If he beat Colts on the road next week, I don’t see why he won’t be playing against Brett Favre in Superbowl game this year.
Wow.
Great performance yesterday. But…the superbowl?? Let’s all take a breath. Next week will tell a lot about team, but I do not see them in the SB this year.
never. doubt. vince. young
What about that did you not get? hahaha.
"I don't care if I have to run100 times or pass it 100 times...Whatever it takes to win is all that matters to me" -VY
by 2100 San Jac on Nov 30, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
He can just tell Michael Griffin in practice
Charles can’t do it on his own in KC, but my Chiefs have actually been playing some better FB recently.
I think the Super Bowl is always the goal, but going one step at a time is important.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 30, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe he means Cedric. He’s having a pretty decent year with 3 ints and a bunch of tackles. The Vikings beating the Bengals might help VY out some if things get crazy with the wild card.
Or maybe he's hybridizing
Michael Huff and Cedric Griffin
by burntorangehorn on Nov 30, 2009 3:11 PM CST up reply actions
lol....you got that right...
I was meant to Michael Huff as PB said, we may need Oakland for help :p
titans? playoffs? lol nt
"We'll be baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!"
by greenspointexas on Nov 30, 2009 1:18 PM CST reply actions
Throw out the records
I hate to be cliché’ but it’s appropriate in this instance. This is what rivalry games are all about. (see Alabama v. Auburn) I’m actually encouraged by our victory over A & M. We took the best shot of a talented team (though underachieving). It was a primetime game, I’m assuming it was senior night, on a night marking the tenth anniversary of a tragedy. They had every reason to be jacked up for that game. This was just one more game that we had to win to achieve a greater goal, Thursday night’s game was their goal. We took their best shot and we survived. True, flaws were revealed, but I also believe that character was built. Character that will certainly be needed in a sure to be hard fought contest in Pasadena.
Vince Young >Tim Tebow.
Stats.....
are for losers…….. We got a W… that’s what counts…. that and Colt is the 6th leading rusher last week in the NCAA… :)
-----@ Live the Dream---- 2009 @------
by LadyLonghorninOK on Nov 30, 2009 3:32 PM CST reply actions
Let's see, 26 of 33, with an INT
That’s 26 of 32; he threw away several, so we’re really talking a QB hitting at nearly 90%. His receivers were making amazing catches. Usually when a QB is so hot (78.78% overall) you don’t beat that team at any level. Period.
So, the game was an anomaly, a function of the rivalry and other emotional factors. Let him hit 70% and suddenly AtM doesn’t make so many third downs – making 9 of 16 was a killer. And Johnson did it for both halves, not just one. Truly amazing. When Johnson started running and continued with his hot passing the Horns were damn lucky to win because the defense had to watch a bunch of mouse holes all at the same time. AtM was dictating the tempo with their execution and the Horns aggressiveness went out the door having to cover the whole field. Basically, you just try to keep them from scoring TDs on any given play.
So, I put it down to a great performance. Chances are the game did wonders for Muschamps and the defense. I’m sure he’s pressing home the point to the players that every tackle, every area of responsibility and every inch counts.
More than luck, though, was that we had the offensive power to match them score-for-score and to overcome them. That is the game.
So, all of those comparisons with other BSC champs are just bullshit stats waiting to get blown out the door, merely the self-serving detritus of history.
Winners win.
And1...stats are for losers.
I like what MB said at the presser today regarding the team’s feat this year in beating both OU and TAMU in the same season.
In the 39 years since 1970 it’s only happened eight times that we’ve beaten both of them in the same year. Four of those have been since 1998 and to give these seniors credit, two of them have been the last two years, which is just phenomenal for them to do that. The last time it happened back to back was 1969 and 1970.
What we have here is history in the making. Right before our eyes. Did anyone on this board ever dream that someday we would be talking dynasty after the Mackovic dark ages. This Horn fan did not and I hate to admit that.
And how lucky are we to have had VY and the heroics of the 2005 team only to blessed a few years later with, arguably, a better squad.
I just keep pinching myself. Giggity.
Time to break out the combine for Corn Nation.
"We don't freestyle Texas Fight, big boy." - Coach Brown
199.8 QB rating was a career high
This coming two weeks after a 12-33 performance against OU where his rating was 69.6. OU is the only team to hold him under a 100 rating in his career, they did it twice (77.1 last year). Think pass rush matters?
Sorry, I know stats are for losers but combined with our abysmal pass rush Thursday there is a strong correlation there. The Aggie O-line deserves some credit too. In fact the whole offense looked like an NFL team. For one game, and they still lost. Poor Aggies.
by SpiritOfTheFedora on Nov 30, 2009 7:45 PM CST up reply actions
His accuracy forced the Horns out of synch
The defense needed more pressure but couldn’t afford to give up coverage…and then he started running. Tough place for a defense. Our offense does it to other teams all the team. The key is the execution: the QB and the receivers. Any team can do that if they execute; few do.
My comment on VY.
He’s saving the Titans’ season.
The real question is Jeff Fisher’s job.
Those first six loses look so stupid now I don’t know if Fisher can recover. Bud Adams forced him to start VY. And now VY makes Fisher look like an idiot for not doing so much earlier.
What if VY wins all the rest and don’t go to the playoffs? Why? Fisher and six losses.
Denmark doesn’t have anything on Nashville.
why doesn't Fisher get any credit for the team coming back and winning 5 straight?
by goingforthecorner on Nov 30, 2009 6:58 PM CST up reply actions
I hear Fisher has one foot out the door
Supposedly Fisher had full autonomy and Bud Adams pushing for Vince could be a breach of contract and let Fisher out of his contract without penalty.
As I understood this to begin with, this was going to end with an “either/or” scenario with Vince or Fisher coming back, but not both. I think the writing is on the wall for Fisher and the better Vince plays, the more wins the Titans accomplish the less likely Fisher will get credit or have a job next season with Tennessee.
"I live in the tower with Coach Brown." -Bevo
by run Bevo run on Nov 30, 2009 9:06 PM CST up reply actions
If that's true
I really don’t understand Fisher’s hatred of Vince. It says a lot of negative things about his conservative mentality that he prefers Collins. Frankly, I always thought Fisher was a good coach until this.
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Nov 30, 2009 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
The team quit on him and Collins...
Fisher was taken behind the shed by Adams and Heimerdinger and now the team is winning. Fisher lost the team on both sides of the ball. VY and Heimerdinger revived the offense and the defense was given a chance to breathe and they too have come on strong. Fisher proved to be the reason for the losing streak, but his fingerprints seem rather faint on the current win streak.
I dont buy that
Fisher is the longest tenured coach in the NFL, and has been pretty darn successful during his time.
He obviously didn’t think Vince was the guy for whatever reason, but he shouldn’t be thrown under the bus just for that one decision, homer as I am. You think Fisher would really lose Mawae (3 years under Fish), Roos (4 years) and Bulluck (9 years) who would be the obvious leaders on that team?
His fingerprints are all over this team, wins and losses. Fisher didnt just become a bad coach overnight. Its pretty apparent that Vince has been a spark plug, but its harder to quantify if he plays this way without his benching and introspection. And Im not saying this is all some grand plan by Fisher either, but to say hes all to blame and gets no credit is naive. Dudes a freaking good coach that half of the NFL would fall over themselves to have him at the helm.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Dec 1, 2009 9:37 AM CST up reply actions
You're right
One game complete wipes away a 15 year career.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Dec 1, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
Huh? I didn't say last year's team or the a team 15 years ago quit on him, I said this team had...
When it takes the team owner to call you out and tell you to change your starting QB when your team has all but been eliminated from playoff contention after just 6 games and got completely and thoroughly embarrassed against the Patriots (which was just the culmination of the team’s woes, I can’t say the exact moment they really quit but I wouldn’t be surprised if most players were just collecting their paychecks even before the Pats game), I have to think this year looks decidedly different from the 14 others that Fisher has coached. I don’t see why it matters how long he has coached, he failed this year and it is only the prodding of his owner and the effort of his OC that may salvage the season. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Fisher fired if they are eliminated from playoff contention.
you are exactly correct
It is patently obvious how Fisher’s poor decision making DIRECTLY cost us games, not to mention jersey-gate which was the most fucking idiotic and offensive thing I’ve ever seen in my entire life as a sports fan. The comeback is Vince and Heimerdinger and Bud Adams, Fisher got out of the way when he was told to…
Fisher has allowed ‘Dinger to run the offense the way he sees fit. That is a good move. I would forgive fisher if he would just man up and say to the fans (about the 6 lost games) a) "I’m sorry everyone, the buck stops here. I fucked up, and I’m sorry about it", and (about committing treason) b) “I realize now that the jersey thing was incredibly demeaning and offensive to the entire organization, the players, and the fan base. I am extremely sorry for exercising such piss poor judgment, I don’t know what the fuck got into me, but i swear to god it will never happen again”
If Fisher was man enough to apologize and admit his mistakes then he deserves our forgiveness. As it is, he deserves a smack in the face with a cast iron frying pan.
And the final comment there says it all for us:
By: AustinTX1 on 11/30/09 at 8:53
Dear Tennessee,
You’re Welcome. Take good care of him….
XOXOXOX,
Texas
“Tell ‘em I’m coming back.”
- Vince Young
By: AustinTX1 on 11/30/09 at 8:57
PS: Never. Doubt. Him. Again.

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