Big 10 expansion
by TexasGarcia37 on Dec 11, 2009 7:09 PM CST
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Just read an article on ESPN that stated that the Big 10 will be "aggressive" in finding a 12th team to add to their conference. I'm sorry but my linking skills are poor so I will let someone else post the actual article. Would the Big 10 be interested at all in Iowa St? I don't think so either, but it does start an interesting chain reaction. If the Big 10 were to take Iowa St. to pair with Iowa in the new Big 10 conference, it would open a spot in the Big 12. Who does the Big 12 invite as a replacement for Iowa St.? TCU? Hmmm......interesting.
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Big 10 will not take Iowa St.
Low academics and probably not even a research U. Big 10 may want Pitt (geographically closer than Penn St.) or ND if they would jump. But IF that happened…
I think TCU is the current favorite for sure. Although, the North schools especially the children of the corn would not like another Texas school joining in on the Big 8 party.
Your tongue can't repel flavor of that magnitude!!
Agree
Why take a team that brings nothing in terms of media market, licensing and recruiting grounds. Also, not sure if ISU gains much by leaving. They already play the Hawkeyes every year anyway.
Anybody know what Barry Alvarez means when he refers to a 'permanent bye week'?
I can’t fathom why the Big Ten would want a conference playoff. Those things KO’d Texas in 2001, Nebraska in 1996 and Kansas State in 1998 from a spot in the MNC. The Big Ten practically prints money already; why expose your undefeated conference champ to an early December game with a Penn State or Iowa or Michigan State?
Only reason I can think of for the league expanding is the chance to get Notre Dame and its national following. And the Irish will only go for that if/when NBC won’t re-up its TV deal.
Alvarez’s comment about being relevant late in the season is simiple: DON’T STOP PLAYING before Thanksgiving. Schedule late-season games, as the Big East and Pac-10 and Sun Belt do. Cold weather/facility issues? Play at enclosed stadiums. TV’d rather have that anyway.
I’d love to see the Big 12 dump the title game and each team play 9 of the other 11 opponents.
They want a conference title game
That’s what he’s referring to. They may knock people out, but that’s not always the case. Remember Florida used one to lobby their way into a MNC too. It works both ways.. Ours might have cost us a Heisman, but they make tons of money for the league.
I think Alvarez is referring to an actual "permanent bye week"
The article says that in 2010 the gap between the time the Big 10 is done with their season and the rest of the country will be reduced by a week due to the “permanent bye week.” What I think this means is that there will be a week where the entire Big 10 has a bye and there is nothing the schools can do about it. This will help the conference in bowl games by having less of a break between games and will help ratings the last week of their season. I dont think he is referring to a Conference Championship because it says 2010 and they dont have a Conference Championship Game in 2010. Also, looking at Michigan and Indiana’s schedules for next season, they both end on Nov. 27th, which is the saturday after Thanksgiving, instead of the saturday before like normal for the Big 10.
The Big Ten typically ends its football season two weeks before the other BCS conferences, though the addition of a permanent bye week in 2010 will shrink the gap by a week.
"Every time you turn on ESPN you see Bama" - Earl Thomas' answer when asked what excites him most about the National Championship.
To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.
by TexasHoosier on Dec 11, 2009 11:53 PM CST up reply actions
TCU
Big 10 would be smart to pick up TCU. It would open inroads for other Big 10 schools to recruit in Texas. TCU should do it without thinking twice.
Cinci
OSU already delivers the Cinci media market and the Big 10 already owns recruiting in the state of Ohio. I don’t see them being at the top of the list, if the B10 can’t get their obvious #1 (Notre Dame) then they would be near the top of the pecking order.
I agree with MiZZOU. I think they would be next in line after the Irish.
TCU had one, yes one, sellout this year
If they can’t sell out their own stadium, they can’t deliver the DFW media market. Geographically, they don’t make a whole lot of sense for the Big 10.
I would assume the Big 10’s list will start with Notre Dame. Remember that just 20 years ago a lot of major programs were independents. Notre Dame bucked the trend, but they were still a national drawing power at that point. Right now, they are weak. They already play Michigan, Purdue, etc. each year. They are the clear-cut number 1 choice.
I think their short list would be:
1. Notre Dame
2. Missouri (geographic fit and a good rivalry with Illinois but would they leave behind rivalry with KU?) Will they deliver the St. Louis and/or KC media market?
3. Pittsburgh
4. Big East flavor of the Week: (Rutgers/UConn/Syracuse/BC/Cinci) Another Big East team that can deliver the NY media market and help member teams recruit New Jersey and the tri-state area. Remember Syracuse said no to the ACC, they love the Big East.
This is major news. If the Big 10 goes to a conference title game that would leave only the Pac 10 and the Big East without a conference championship game. If the Big 10 does this, I wonder if the Pac 10 will consider expansion and add a conference title game. Maybe watching OSU and Notre Dame on national TV, followed by UT vs. Nebraska II, then Florida vs. LSU a day before the BCS selection show while USC beats up on Arizona State in a game that decides absolutely nothing will force the Pac 10 to expand to 12 and get a game. In the long run, expansion to 12 team leagues pushes college football towards a playoff system.
Ripple Effects: If the B10 takes a Big East league, Memphis moves up to the Big East. Will the Big East finally fall apart? Can they continue to handle having so many competitive basketball schools vying for tourney spots and only eight football teams?
The schools that make the most sense...
…given their location, brand, and relative strength are:
- Rutgers
- Pitt
- UConn
- West Virginia
- Virginia Tech
- Boston College
The conference already dilutes the talent base of the Mid-West too thin, and they are obviously hungry to expand their recruiting, cable network, and merchandising into new, lucrative ares on all fronts. NYC would be the best in terms of cash, but there’s also a great case to be made for trying to get into the Virginias, which are a little more southern/eastern.
Notre Dame is a pipe dream
They will never give up their independence. So if Missouri is taken who does the Big 12 pick up as a replacement? Is it even a Texas school that is considered? What other states in the nearby area have a Big 12 level school?
Maybe
Arkansas will slide over the the Big 12 North? That’s the only team I can think of that would be a Big 12 North School with a descent background,
Um, Nebraska?
I know their Offense still sucks, but historically it’s a great program, and they are on the right track… Mizzou is also an Offensive power most years and will threaten again soon.
Their main rival is Oklahoma
And their history is with the old Big 8, not Ohio State and Michigan. No way Nebraska leaves.
I didn't mean that Nebraska would leave...
…was just retorting that the North isn’t a complete wasteland. :) Hook ’Em!
No way.
Arkansas was quick to jump to the SEC. They gave up their biggest rivalry to get in to begin with. I don’t see them leaving the SEC to join the North and not even have a guaranteed yearly game with Texas. IF MiZZOU leaves, the Big 12 would probably look to TCU and Houston. But, when the league formed it didn’t go for those schools to begin with since they knew that UT would deliver those markets anyway. UT would favor a private school that can boost the conferences academic prestige, but I don’t know if they want to let a program in DFW or Houston use playing Texas every year as a recruiting tool. I have no idea who the Big 12 would look to… Memphis is dying to get out of C-USA, and is campaigning to get into the Big East, would the Big 12 look at them? No idea.
Anyway, here’s a FANTASTIC article on the formation of the Big 12 and will give you guys some insight on what went on and what some member schools will look at in a new school.
by the1austin on Dec 11, 2009 8:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That is an excellent article . . .
. . . and it also makes very clear that the popular conception that Ann Richards was the driving force behind forcing Baylor upon everyone else is just an urban legend.
by Hopkins Horn on Dec 11, 2009 8:25 PM CST up reply actions
Great read..
Makes the Texas and Nebraska rivalry look bigger then I realize. I bet it annoys Nebraska how dominate Texas has been agaisnt them in football and almost had there vengance last Saturday.
One comment about your post
I agree that UT would make every effort to include a school that raises the academic profile of the Big 12. IMHO, no school would fit that bill around the Big 12 better than Rice. They have the old SWC history and have bring the academic clout as well. Don’t know if they would they want to be in a league with us and A&M and a bunch of tier 3 schools though…but I guess their conference isnt any better now anyway.
Unfortunately, while they bring sorely needed academic prestige Rice would end up another punching bag sans baseball. (Damn you Lance Berkman!!!)
And they bring in zero TV sets.
Your tongue can't repel flavor of that magnitude!!
Also agree about Arkansas
I’ve seen grumblings on the interwebs from time to time about Arkansas that they aren’t entirely happy in the SEC. Not sure that makes sense — the SEC and the Big 10 are the two places to be on a go-forward basis.
But assuming the Hogs are poachable for a moment . . . . the1austin is absolutely right that Arkansas makes no sense if they would be a replacement team for a departing North team. Unless the Big XII were to completely scramble its divisional structure and create something inherently illogical a la the ACC, Arkansas would have to be in the North. Whatever its problems are with the SEC, why would you leave it to be in the same division with Colorado, Kansas State and Iowa State?
If Texas, though, were the team to depart, Arkansas might make more sense, as they’d slide right into a division with former conference rivals A&M and Tech as well as neighbors and insta-rivals Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. Oh, and Baylor, too. Still not sure what the financial plus-side would be for Arkansas in such a situation to leave behind the SEC pot of gold — the only motivations to me seems as though they’d be cultural and geographic — a desire to compete against schools located closer and with whom there’s a decent amount of history.
by Hopkins Horn on Dec 12, 2009 9:19 AM CST up reply actions
Texas
Sigh. I hate this subject because I always get suckered in with my pet theory. I think my first ever post on BON a couple of years ago was on this very subject.
First of all, Big 10 expansion begins with Notre Dame. They are the 800-pound gorilla in the room. If the Big 10 were to expand, i think their first 25 phone calls are to the Irish.
Assuming the Irish spurn them down, the Big 10 has two basic options — poach a team from the Big East, or poach a team from the Big 12.
If the Big 10 decides to go east and aim for a Pitt or a Rutgers or a Syracuse, I don’t think there’s too much collateral damage. The Big East responds by picking up a team from C-USA (ECU, UCF, Memphis), and not too much else realignment occurs. (I think Cincy is a non-starter for academics, a tiny stadium and OSU.)
But if the Big 10 suddenly looks like it’s interested in a team from the Big XII, I think that’s when all hell breaks loose. The Big XII has very loose historical ties (when you’re speaking of the Texas schools + the Big 8), and I don’t think it would take much to break it up.
And take any plausible team the Big 10 could poach from the Big XII (Mizzou, Nebraska), and look at any school the Big XII could reasonably pick to replace it (TCU, Colorado State, even Utah or BYU), and the Big XII would be a weaker conference in terms of TV revenues, which would be the big driver in all of this. The Big XII is already weak when compared to the SEC and the Big 10 as far as available revenue from TV deals, and this would weaken the conference even more.
I personally don’t think Texas would stand for being in a weakened conference — this is the key point for me. If the Horns saw that the Big 10 was intent on picking up a Big XII team, I think DeLoss would be on the phone with the Big 10, saying, “take us.” And, frankly, if the Big 10 had to choose between Texas or any other Big XII school, it’s a no-brainer in terms of what we bring to the table, academically and demographically (with the huge Texas population base).
It’s not as illogical as it initially sounds. Geography is a non-issue. When you consider that a small private school like Miami was in a conference for years in which its closest competitor was in Blacksburg, VA, or that a private school like Boston College is no closer than College Park, MD to its closest conference rival, or that a smallish public university like Washington State routinely sends it athletes in non-revenue sports to Arizona, I don’t think the travel burden would be too bad for our athletic department, and I don’t imagine the Purdues of the world would mind sending their athletes to Austin on occasion. (Yes, i know that the Big 10 has, in the past, stated that it would prefer to expand to a contiguous state, but I think that concern could be easily overcome.)
Texas is also a member of Association of American Universities, which all Big 10 schools are members of as well. The Big 10 would be a step up for Texas academically (which would be an important consideration). Texas is pretty much a Big 10 school in southwestern clothing.
Issues to overcome:
(1) Texas, and Texas A&M, were forced to bring Baylor and Tech along to the Big XII when the SWC collapsed. Has the university’s’ political clout in Austin increased to the point that Texas could make such a move without being slapped down by the Legislature?
(2) I would assume that we would try and keep OU and A&M on our football schedule — assuming that both schools would want to keep playing us after we left them and their conference behind. Would we seriously want to play an annual schedule with Michigan, OSU, Wisconsin, Iowa, PSU, OU, A&M and the new conference championship game?
(3) A lesser issue, but I think a move to the Big 10 could be very detrimental to the baseball program.
read this, same as above mentioned article
It mentions that Texas did look at the Big 10 once before after looking at the Pac-10.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/MYSA081405_3N_SWCbaylor_tech_1ca3e1c_html8528.html
I actually think the Pac-10 round robin is the best way
Each team plays all of the other teams in the league every year. No issues like in the Big XII with a horrible North and a strong South. Plus it seems like the Big XII championship game is just an added obstacle to getting to the BCS or MNC.
Worst is the Big 10 scheme, where in any given year you may miss all the tough teams.
So which two teams can we discard ?
Pittsburgh
I have always thought that Pitt would be a great 12th team for the big 10(11). They would sweep across from penn state to Iowa.
I was always confused . . .
. . . why Pitt was seemingly never in the mix for the ACC when it was looking to expand a few years back, yet Syracuse and BC were. It’s a better fit geographically, it’s in a bigger market, it’s a good school and it’s in a much, much better high school football state.
by Hopkins Horn on Dec 11, 2009 8:28 PM CST up reply actions
Well, except Arkansas left the SWC about 20 years ago. . .
and Houston, which joined for football in 1976 (earlier in other sports) is NOT IN THE PICTURE.
So what's the presumed motivation for expansion?
Is it simply a football-related move to add a 12th team to have the ability to stage a conference championship game? Or is it driven by a larger goal to stay ahead of the SEC as the premier conference in the country?
If it’s the former, then any ol’ Big East school would do. But if it’s the latter, then there are only two reasonable and poachable prospects to accomplish that goal: Notre Dame and Texas.
I think this is more about all sports as opposed to just for football
The Big 10 could easily go and get a school to play football with them, but I think they are looking for a school that will play all sports and bring in more revenue. The more teams they have, the more apparel they will sell, the more tickets they will sell, and in turn, they will make more revenue. Yes, football is the biggest money maker, but the Big 10 cares about all sports. I went to Indiana for 2 years and its hard to explain how freakin huge basketball is in the Big 10. The Big 10 will be looking for a school to be competitive in all sports, not just football, and especially to be competitive in basketball.
"Every time you turn on ESPN you see Bama" - Earl Thomas' answer when asked what excites him most about the National Championship.
To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.
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