Is Football, as we knew it, over?
Mark Mangino is probably going to be canned after the season by seemingly acceptable reasons of player mis-treatment but, who decides what is mis-treatment? Apparently the answer is hippies.
I spent my whole life growing up in Texas, playing football from pee wee leagues through high school. I have been punished for various "infractions" of being late to practice, to errant plays on the field. In all of my punishments, i have done duck walks, bear crawls, and lunges across the field among others. Now i can't speak for the field conditions of everyone who's played football as a youth, but our field was crap. Half of it was mostly dirt with a blade of grass here or there, and the other half was infested with those little stickers. Now I can say with utmost certainty that i repeatedly tore my hands up, got blisters in places i didn't think blisters could form (on the shoulder from my shoulder pad during bear crawls of all things).
I just don't see how what Mark Mangino is doing to his players is wrong. To me, its a part of football and has been for decades. Add to this the plethora of new rules about hitting quarterbacks, or horse collar tackles, or leading with the helmet. I ask you this: Is the football we grew up loving, coming to an end? Have the lovey dovey, kindergarten teachers from our youth gotten to football too? Do we all get a sticker? do the losers get a trophy? does being disciplined mean sitting in the corner for a while? I'd like to think "no" to these questions... but my logical side, just keeps saying yes... its over. To all of you nay sayers out there, Mangino isn't doing anything that hasn'tbeen done by 100 other coaches in the last 2 years. If you haven't been punished in some way that might give you a minor irritation, or been poked in the chest, or yelled at and cursed at. You my friend, never played football, at least not the game of football that we grew up loving, not the football that our heroes played.
I'm really interested in a discussion here, am I alone on this? on many of the Kansas boards people seem to be chasing the guy out of town with torches, so I guess I'm more alone than i thought. Anyways, let me know what you guys think, and why.
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Hippies?
I’d be surprised if any of the finger-pointing players were flower children.
by burntorangehorn on Dec 3, 2009 12:04 PM CST reply actions
Where have you been?
You must have missed this story from this morning. Or the numerous other claims from players regarding mistreatment abuse. In the very beginning of the investigation there was enough to fire him. And it takes time to uncover all the truth. How much more do you need to suggest that he might have crossed a line or twelve? Plain and simple, he’s not good for football and needs to go.
Punishment for missed assignments or stepping out of line is one thing. This fat bastard stepped WAY past that on numerous occasions.
Physical and mental abuse is not acceptable in any way. To suggest otherwise is deplorable.
I think you're overstating
And also omitting the “allegedly” qualifier.
by burntorangehorn on Dec 3, 2009 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
Let me see if I'm understanding...
A player burning his hand to the point of skin falling off after saying that the turf is too hot, then having the coach tell him that he’d “burn the other hand off” is overstating? How is that not abuse, both physical and mental?
I left out allegedly because there are photos that document this incident. That’s not alleged. There are other players that corroborate this story, as well.
The fact that there are so few players stepping in to defend Mangino is a huge indictment. If a coach has played by any moral standard then there would be at least some players saying “Hey, that’s not the way Mangino operates.” But you don’t hear this. From anyone but some of the current players. And I would guess that’s for the same reason Kipp didn’t report Mangino. Fear of retribution.
I’m part of the crowd that thinks punishment is great for society and think we’ve gotten too soft on the younger generations. But football is just a game. It doesn’t require these antics to get successful results (read: Mack Brown).
Funny you say that
Bear Bryant was on record saying he regreted the way he treated players.
Who know if any of those facts are straight?
We sure as heck don’t, and probably never will unless this were to go to court.
by burntorangehorn on Dec 4, 2009 6:56 AM CST up reply actions
I know there are a lot of lawyers on this site
And my guess is that you’re one of them. I’m not. Nor do I think it’s a bad thing that I’m not. If we were in an actual court proceeding, you’re right, I would need documented evidence to support my opinion. But, if you haven’t noticed, we’re not. We’re on a blog. In which people relay their opinions. I don’t need documented proof to form an opinion. Which is what the OP asked for. My opinion is that there are too many people from too many different teams of his that are all singing the exact same song for it to be a coincidence. I’m not trying to criminally prosecute him. That’s for the players and their families to decide whether or not to do.
Lets just say for the sake of arguement that what the players are saying is 100% accurate. He needs to be fired. Plain and Simple. His actions are discusting.
Lets just say for the sake of arguement that what the players are saying is a conspiracy and he didn’t do any of those things. He’s been wrongly fired.
The truth is probably somewhere between. But my opinion stays the same. It’s not my job to document all the evidence. I’ll leave that to lawyers.
I'm a little confused
Did you never have to do bear crawls on the practice field?
by burntorangehorn on Dec 4, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
I know I did..
….freezing cold ground sometimes, but none ever made my hands burn like that. If a football player is complaining about the pain like that, then it probably isn’t unwarranted. When the scorching hot turf did that, and he complained, he probably could’ve made him do something else (like Halos).
by vy til i die on Dec 4, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
I recently sat on a trial for a child's burn
And based on temps cited in the expert testimony, something that’s 199 degrees wouldn’t cause a burn like that on thick skin, especially on a calloused area like the butt of the palm. That has to be more about friction, if anything.
by burntorangehorn on Dec 4, 2009 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, I have
However, I don’t see where you’re going with that. As said in a previous reply, it’s the friction that probably caused the burns. Not the act of the bear crawl. So are you suggesting that Mangino gets a pass because he didn’t say “Go vigorously rub your hands on that 199 degree turf there”? It’s a bear crawl. It’s expected that there will be friction. It’s elementary to understand that heat + friction = MORE heat. So, while 199 degrees may not cause burns like that, the added friction certainly will.
Could be
The pictures are there, but we honestly have no indication of how serious they actually were, or whether they were actually caused by this incident alone.
Yep, Mangino was probably a little overbearing and hardassed, but I don’t think it’s anything that warrants a firing.
I’m not a lawyer, by the way. Been to law school a fair bit, but I’ve found it unlikely to be worth pursuing further with the likely result of taking the paycut.
by burntorangehorn on Dec 4, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
mario party for nintendo 64
this game caused alot of problems in the same area of the hand as there were several things in the game where you had to rotate the joystick really fast which would cause blisters on your palm. (nintendo eventually made a glove for the game)
i think this game was right around that time so who was to say him and his buddies were not just playing video games???
There's something spiritual about baseball — like Mother Nature," Garrido said. "You don't mess with it. And I think before a player can really believe in it, he has to experience it."
by dmurphnextrusygreer on Dec 4, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Or he could just have a self-gratification problem and bad aim
Nevermind. Abort. Mine wasn’t as funny as yours.
by burntorangehorn on Dec 4, 2009 3:14 PM CST up reply actions
I know some people are upset by the way Mangino treats his players, but......
THIS IS DIVISION ONE FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IT’S THE BIG TWELVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
if you don’t like it …….. GO PLAY INTER MURALS BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OU SUCKS!!!!!!
I think you've missed the point
Scipio covered it pretty well over here and here.
Mangino’s problem isn’t hippies, it’s losing without enough integrity to earn a pass.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Dec 3, 2009 12:37 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
"... the football we grew up loving"
hey, they used to make us practice in over 100-degree weather and not allow us to drink water. Did that make us men? Was that part of “the football we grew up loving”?
Or was it machismo born of ignorance? Let’s face it, a lot of stupid and harmful things were done in the name of this “football we grew up loving”. It’s a great game, and I don’t want for a minute to minimize the good things that have come out of the discipline of playing it. But continuing to do stupid things once we know better doesn’t make us tough. It makes us, well… stupid.
Some things, we just need to learn from, and move forward. Bear Bryant later in his life expressed regret at the whole “Junction Boys” experience, and said he would never do it again that way. Sounds like Mangino hasn’t learned that lesson. If that kind of meanness were what it took to be truly successful, that’d be one thing, but there seem to be plenty of vastly more successful coaches who don’t roll that way…
by Pflash on Dec 3, 2009 12:44 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Tough vs. mean
Tough coaches turn boys into men.
Mean coaches denigrate young men, making them feel like boys who have been knocked down and kicked in the face – by someone they should be able to trust.
Watch out, I bite.
by EddieTheAlbinoSquirrel on Dec 3, 2009 12:55 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
Exactly
You learn NOTHING after someone lays a personal attack against you. There’s aggressive coaching, and then there’s just being an overbearing and crude douchebag.
I guarantee Will Muschamp brings more intensity to the table than Mangino ever has, but you wouldn’t hear his players talk about him the same way they are about Mangino.
"Stats are for losers, I like winning games."
Concur
I can’t believe this is being discussed so much on this site where we so highly value the humanity of Mack Brown. Every program will have some knucklehead prima donnas who dislike a coach and have their gripes. But for there to be a chorus of gripes against Mangino and none of his players to come to his defense says it all.
Notre Dame players walked onto the field with Charlie Weis arm-in-arm. Players dunk gatorade and carry their coaches of the field (although attempting that with Mangino would be very unsafe). A great coach is TOUGH, but also loves his players. And the evidence is seen when his players love him. A mean coach will lose favor even when winning.
Where do I even begin with this??
Mangino allegedly ridiculed his players over their socio-economic backgrounds, and inflicted corporal punishment that went above and beyond a little finger-pointing in the chest, and with zero remorse.
From the article linked above:
"It must have been the worst pain I’ve ever felt," Kipp said.
After pointing out a tackle that Kipp had missed during the previous week’s game, Mangino allegedly threatened to burn the player’s other hand if he ever missed a tackle again.
And you approve of this? Is this some kind of fratboy-macho thing? Because, as a certified Austin Hippie, I wouldn’t know.
More ...
How about saying he would send a player home to be shot, after that player’s brother had been shot in the arm?
Or, another favorite, threatening to send players “back to the ghetto”?
It’s not motivational. It’s not helpful. It’s hateful.
Watch out, I bite.
by EddieTheAlbinoSquirrel on Dec 3, 2009 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
They have a certification for this?
"I live in the tower with Coach Brown." -Bevo
by run Bevo run on Dec 3, 2009 11:27 PM CST up reply actions
Its like defending torture in prison by saying its just frat-boy hazing...
I just hope that my children never see you as a coach!
I completely agree with the OP
new rules like horsecollaring and helmet to helmet have really “wimpified” football. why even wear helmets now a days? hitting a defenseless receiver is a joke of a penalty as well. the nfl and ncaa have really really made football less fun to watch over the past 10 years. I cant believe nfl players are even worried about being hit. hell, pay me 2 or 3 million dollars WITH an insurance policy of another 5-6 million dollars and ill take facemasks, horsecollars and hits across the middle every day for a year.
finally, “poking someone in the chest” is not, and should not be a fireable offense. so he yelled at some players and talked bad about their background/upbringing. bad? yes. fireable? YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! these kids are football players! if they cant take a little heat here or there then get out of the sport! jeez. i hope no one on the field calls them names… they might just complain to the ref! ridiculous!
no wonder everyone over in europe playing rugby is laughing at us.
"We'll be baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!"
Please, say any of that to Earl Campbell's face.
Typical greenspoint, chasing butterflies in the outfield as the ball rolls by.
proud to swim home
no wonder everyone over in europe playing rugby is laughing at us.
no wonder you’re here, and not on the football field.
and
Rugby looks like weak sauce,they all huddle together and push.I haven’t seen anything near the controlled violence as someone running across the middle of the field and getting the head knocked off like in football.
Not meaning to argue with you, but...
Try rugby out and you would say otherwise. Both sports are tough.
"Stats are for losers, I like winning games."
You're actually against having the horse collar penalty?
Care to put on a uniform and have it done it to you repeatedly? Who needs ligaments anyway.
There is definitely a line
And my gut says this many players and former players wouldn’t be piling on if Mangino hadn’t crossed that line.
I don’t think yelling is the problem. You can’t tell me these guys have never been yelled at before and are suddenly shocked at finding themselves in the unique position of having a coach who gets pissed when they screw up. It wouldn’t have become nearly this big of a deal if yelling was all that happened.
The things Mangino has been accused of saying are things no coach should ever say to a player, period. And the physical confrontations that have been alleged are also well outside the realm of acceptable behavior between coach and player.
As to whether or not Mangino should be fired, that is none of my business. I don’t know all the facts. I don’t know how much of it is the players overreacting out of frustration in the midst of a bad season. I don’t know if maybe the players tried to bring this up before, but, because Mangino was winning, the AD didn’t care. But if what these guys are saying is true, then I don’t see how Kansas can afford to keep him around.
not really about Mangino
This post wasn’t so much about Mangino, as it was supposed to spark some discussion as to the less and less violent nature the game is headed towards, these recent events merely serve as a catalyst for this discussion to take place, I’ve enjoyed reading the arguments from everyone even rickyspub (p.s. don’t worry, i have no intentions of coaching). I was just curious how people felt about things in general, i think we’ve focused too much on Mangino’s particular case
Um, really?
Your first line:
Mark Mangino is probably going to be canned…
First line of your 3rd paragraph:
I just don’t see how what Mark Mangino is…
From your last paragraph:
on many of the Kansas boards people seem to be chasing the guy (Mangino) out of town with torches
Your poll:
Do you think Mangino was wrong
Mangino did nothing wrong, damn hippies.
Mangino was wrong, but nothing worth getting fired over
Mangino was wrong, fire his huge ass
By my count, that’s 7 references to a single individual that the post isn’t “really about”.
Others have said it far more eloquently than I can, but this mentality of “beat them until they obey” is old, outdated, and dangerous. It has no place in our current society.
touche salesman, but
i did say he was the catalyst for my post, and sure the poll really doesn’t fit with what i do talk about anyways (just always wanted to put one up, although the results were surprising to me). I don’t defend the man, and that isn’t my intention as none of us really know what he did more so than the allegations suggest. So in reality, as the investigation hasn’t concluded yet, we aren’t in a position to argue about his specific actions. So anyone who bothers to read the entire post would gather its not really about mangino as, using his recent allegations to propose the more general question, of aggression and violence in football during games and in practice.
For the sake of discussion
I see where you are coming from in that the point of your post was to illustrate an example (Mangino) in your idea of the fact that society has dimished the quality of the sport. So I’ll go with that.
It seems as though you’re saying we shouldn’t learn from our past and upgrade the rules to protect players from physical harm. I am in agreement with you that yelling at players can be useful in the right situation. But if all you do is belittle people, your words become less effective. Your post said that you’ve been punished for various infractions, and I’m totally ok with that. But to wrap it up in the Mangino investigation is disengenuous to your point. If coaches want to be hard on a player for screwing up, I’m ok with that. Mangino clearly went past just being hard on the players (for the lawyers out there…) if even half of what is being said is true.
Sorry...
I have read enough about the alleged incidents (greenpointexas obviously only read a minor quote from a post from a Mangino supporter if he still thinks this is about a coach pushing his finger into a player’s chest!) to see some real sicko stuff being done and said by Mangino. If the investigation really says it was only the finger-in-the-chest issue and they fire him then I think it was too much, but if Kipp’s story is true and the others about Mangino attacking players for their personal backgrounds, then I think there is cause and it has nothing to do with hippies or ‘wimpifying’ the sport.
I also think the penalties are good for football. To say otherwise sort of reminds of the NASCAR fan that only watches for the crashes and then gets disappointed when no one is wheeled off in an ambulance. I don’t want to see McCoy horsecollared and watch his career end on Saturday. I don’t want to watch Shipley’s last game due to a horrible hit that didn’t have to happen. If you watch football hoping for plays that end players careers you aren’t much of a fan. I like a good solid hit as much as the next guy, but I also like to see the best players on the field not laid up in a hospital or in a wheelchair or even on the sidelines on crutches. The pros get paid millions to damage their bodies (which is of course why the NFL does so much now to protect their assets these days), these kids might get an education for our entertainment and I am fine with the rules changing to give them as much of a shot at a good life after they hang it up as possible.
Missing The Point
To illustrate how Mangino is out of line and will inevitably get canned, let’s contrast with the ideals set forth at Texas.
To be certain, our players get their fair share of whoopass; Curtis Brown was no doubt doing his share this week, and Sergio was probably hating his life after his embarasssing run in with an apartment building. Mack is jolly and comes off as nice ol’ grandpa with the press, but he probably gets colon stuck in his teeth every now and then.
The difference is in the purpose, objective, and outcome-most players come into college ball cocky as hell, come from undisciplined lives, or whatever the case may be. Anything like that going on at Texas is probably for the purpose of breaking down behaviors or attitudes for the purpose of ultimately bringing someone more into control of their life, a better player, and a better part of the family, and ultimately comes with some positive reinforcement.
To move to cliche- breaking them down to build them up again, to make them better. What Mangino is doing is for the purpose of breaking down his players so they do what they say and make him feel better. Burning the skin off a dude’s hands is a control thing, nothing more, nothing less.
The activities are mostly the same, the outcomes are very different. If this were a legal issue that wouldn’t matter, but this trial is happening in the court of public opinion.
This could also be looked at as a comparison to the father or father figure in every dude’s life. Most everyone got whooped at various times throughout their youth, yet there is a clear distinction: was it done out of love, or was it plain abuse? Was there a positive purpose, or just cause the guy was pissed off at his own life? In this metaphor, Mangino is the psycho alcoholic.
by Tackchevy on Dec 3, 2009 2:33 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Yeah
Tear out that fancy new turf at Royal Memorial and replace it with dirt and stickers. Also do something about those hot showers. This is supposed to be football.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
Leather Helmets!!
Get rid of the body armor and helmets. Anyone who goes flying headfirst to make a tackle wearing a leather helmet will get hurt, but isn’t that natural selection? Lessening the body protection would actually lessen the serious injuries. Anybody who’s played backyard football knows the hits are still pretty violent and can hurt like hell, but you eventually get up and walk away…to do it again! Injuries are inevitable, baseball players get hurt with no contact, but remove the protective shielding and players will think twice since they’ll get hurt as much as any defenseless receiver. Regardless, the horse collar rule and all the special penalties on hitting the QB are just ridiculous!
Hook Em!
You're logic
is non-existent. Players are much bigger, stronger and faster than they used to be. It is only natural that you take the proper precautions. Look at all of the concussion stuff going on in the NFL. On top of that, NFL players on average live 10 years less than the average person. 10 years!!! The only possible precautions you can argue against is how strict it is with QB’s. However, that is purely business with the NFL. QB’s are in all reality the franchise and it only makes sense for the NFL to protect the teams biggest investment. Are they doing it too much? Debatable. The rest of your post is senseless.
"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton
Thanks Coach. YOU'RE(sic) partially right.
Before you go and degrade me, perhaps you should analyze the logic that this site is full of posts made for entertainment. Lighten up and you’ll live longer regardless of whether you played football or not.
Hook Em!
by Margaritaking on Dec 4, 2009 8:59 AM CST up reply actions
I thought it was a joke..
…but then you transitioned to a serious comment at the end, so I can see some of the confusion.
I didn't mean to be degrading
and I apologize if I come off like that. I can see now that your post was made in jest but it is hard to convey sarcasm through text. My apologies.
"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton
Actually, there is some logic here . . .
. . . at least regarding helmets:
Argument in favor of banning helmets.
Not sure I agree, but it’s definitely a unique way to look at the issue.
by Hopkins Horn on Dec 4, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
For what its worth
I am a high school football coach and former college football player with a masters in Sports Psychology so this is a very interesting topic to me in general. People always talk about how football builds character. I think that is a misnomer. I think football creates an environment where character can be built but it takes a coach to actually build the character. Now this is the tricky part. Some kids need that kick in the butt and get in your face mentality in order to perform at an optimal level. Others need a pat on a back and a reassuring word in order to perform at their optimum level. The point is that football has become so specialized that you really can’t treat everyone the same anymore cause everyone is not the same. You need to figure out what works best for each person. Vince Lombardi was a mean cuss to Paul Hornung but that was what revved his engine and Hornung didn’t mind. On the other side, Lombardi never ripped into Bart Starr in front of the team because he thought it undermined his leadership ability. My coaching philosophy has always been that it is your job to love the players and the players job to love each other. How much love can you show when you are threatening your players with the loss of the limb? Some people may interpret that as coach was just trying to make me tougher but others just view that as he doesn’t care about me. The culture and the game has evolved to the point now where there is a greater value placed on the individual than the team and this is one of the byproducts of it. Whether you agree with it or not if you want to be successful you as a coach have to evolve with it and while you can still place great emphasis on the team and make that your number 1 you can no longer ignore the individual.
"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton
by CoachEtch on Dec 3, 2009 9:56 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
winning v. losing
thats all it comes down to.
if manginio would have gone 8-4 this year and competed in the north division none of this would have surfaced.
There's something spiritual about baseball — like Mother Nature," Garrido said. "You don't mess with it. And I think before a player can really believe in it, he has to experience it."
by dmurphnextrusygreer on Dec 4, 2009 8:17 AM CST reply actions
I'm calling crap on your post
If my son was playing for a coach who pulled that kind of crap, I’d straight up shoot him in his fat head, period. Degrading and abusing people doesnt turn them into men, but may turn them into assholes like Mangina.
And apparently having children...
turns them into assholes of the violent and overreacting type.
by BrooklynHorn on Dec 4, 2009 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
simply having a child, no.
but imagining that child being physically or verbally abused by a sack of turds clearly incapable of managing even his own life, yes, perhaps a bit violent and over-reactive.
PhiTypist
I’m sort of in the middle on this discussion. I think that what Mangino did was wrong, but I also think that society is hypocritical in whom it decides to punish in these situations, as I think you are correct in asserting that Mangino did nothing that a lot of coaches haven’t also done, and most of them haven’t been fired for it.
But to address your argument regarding our changing society,, what do you think of the firing of Woody Hayes? Obviously his infraction was more serious, but he was a beloved and immensely successful coach, and that occurred over 30 years ago. It is possible that the same debate took place then, with purists proclaiming the arrival of a softer game of football, as there would never again be a Paul Bryant, Junction Boys era in college football
Personally, I have a different theory, and one that won’t be very popular. I’ve observed a lot of hypocrisy in our culture, and I often think the typical, cynical explanations fail to address all of the inconsistencies (ie: Mangino was fired because he wasn’t winning games, or that its entirely about economics, etc.). One model I’ve been able to construct that seems more consistent with a lot of this behavior is the level of perceived charisma regarding the people involved. As an analogy, I’ve often joked that the fine line between a man’s actions toward a woman as being creepy as opposed to romantic is determined entirely by the woman’s interest in the man, which, in turn, is often determined by his charisma. For instance, if a charismatic man does something irrational and dramatic, like driving half-way across the country to see a woman whom he hardly knows, but whom he has fallen in love with, it may be perceived as romantic (consider the end of most romantic comedies). However, if an uncharismatic man does the very same thing, he risks being perceived as some sort of creepy stalker, even if his actions and his intentions are identical. The point is we don’t really judge actions consistently, we tend to judge them based on the people involved and how those people affect us.
Politics is perhaps the greatest illustration of this, as it is arguable that the more charismatic candidate has won every single election in my lifetime, regardless of political affiliation.
I submit that Mangino is simply an uncharismatic, unlikeable guy, which is the real issue here. Yes, what he did was wrong, but a lot of more likable people have done the same with less consequence. Bobby Knight, for example was eventually let go, but only after the repetitive incidents became too much for IU to deal with. IU didn’t want to fire him, they had to. KU wants to fire Mangino.
Both were winning coaches, but Knight has a lot more charisma.
by BrooklynHorn on Dec 4, 2009 12:35 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
VERY interesting post
It articulates a lot of ideas that I have had floating around in my head as well, football-related or not. This deserves a rec on theory alone.
by burntorangehorn on Dec 4, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
Agree and disagree
I certainly agree with your premise that we do judge those that we want to judge. That very well may be the case with Mangino. He’s easy to dislike because he’s an enormous eye sore.
I think (oh em gee, burntorangehorn is gonna laugh at this) I have been overly critical in my spews against Mangino because I dislike him so. I stand firm on my belief that he should be fired, but merely because I have always hated people who treat others with complete disrespect. His actions, in a bubble, may not be fireable. Collectively, with the fact that he is not a pleasant man, pushes the opinion to the side of “He’s got to go”. Even if you want to say he’s got to go for the good of KU’s image, he still has to go. So much has happened that there is no way he would be held in any regard with his future players and recruiting for KU would be impossible (not that they’re not already facing an uphill battle as is).
Either way, this post is very well thought out, written, and explained.
Nevermind
I tried to link the Tom Brady sexual harassment SNL sketch. It almost perfectly articulates your point.
by TexasGarcia37 on Dec 4, 2009 9:14 PM CST up reply actions
Excellent point
I would say that status may also play a role, independent of how charisma may enhance status. Like attractive people, “winners” are often held to different standards than others. Thus Mangino remained untouchable, even because of low charisma, until he stopped winning.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.

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