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Fear the Gopher!!!

Yes, our mascot, Goldy, is awesome.  Remember the movie Caddyshack?

Sorry, got to root for the Gophers.  U of M undergrad, starting at the McCombs School though this fall for my MBA.  At least if the Gophers lose, I can still root for UT over Duke.

Here is what you need to know about MN:

1.)  Great coach.  Unless you are from Kentucky (which also means winning a national championship gets you very little in terms of job security) you can't argue against him being a great coach.  He has had success every where he has been.  Remember when Tulsa and Georgia were actually relevant in basketball for a few years?  Yeah, Tubby was at both of those schools, too.

2.)  Great Defense.  All of our players will play defense all the time.  Damian Johnson is probably the best defender in the Big 10.  Ralph Sampson III is also a tremendous shot blocker.  Al Nolen started off the year as a great player on both ends of the floor.  Nolen absolutely shredded Louisville.  Of late, he has not been good offensively, but still very good defensively.  Teams struggle against Minnesota's press.  Unfortunately, we just don't do it enough.

3.)  Depth.  Much of the season, Tubby Smith has employed mass substitutions, often subbing in 3-5 players at a time.  Our 6-9 guys are interchangeable and provide sparks off the bench.  Two of our better bench players, Devron Bostick and Paul Carter were two of the highest touted JUCO transfers in the country.  There just aren't enough minutes to go around, but they are starting to get more.

4.)  Streaky.  We have had an up and down season.  We have very good wins against Louisville, Ohio State, Illinois, Wisconsin (twice).  All of those teams are in the tournament.  We have no bad losses, so we usually keep it close.  Our worst game of the year by far was in East Lansing against Michigan State.  That was an abberation.

In addition to being streaky win-loss wise, we have had a story of two halves of the season in respect to shooting as well.  We actually set an NCAA record earlier in the year by going 9-9 from 3 point land against Penn State.  Since that time, we haven't been good at all from behind the arc.

5.)  Youth.  We only have two seniors and they don't have big roles.  As a result, we can seemingly lack on the floor leadership at times.  This can be good or bad.  On one hand, you don't know who is going to turn it on.  On the other hand, you don't know who to depend on.  As far as scoring big baskets go, junior Lawrence Westbrook (cousin of Brian Westbrook - RB Philadelphia Eagles) is the one to hit circus shots in the clutch.  Unfortunately, he can also be out of control at times.  But with the game on the line, his wild shots more often than not seem to find their way in the basket.  Our other relative of fame, Ralph Sampson III, is a 6'11" freshman who is a tremendous shot blocker and has shown the ability to take over the game defensively while offering solid contributions on the offensive side of the ball as well.

I think this should be a typical 7/10 game and close the whole way.  Even if one team or another gets up 10-12, it will tighten up at the end.  I think the depth of the Big 10 definitely makes us battle tested and ready for a team like Texas.

All comments, FanPosts, and FanShots are the views of the reader-authors who create them.

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interesting and different perspective…thanks for sharing

by MJY6087 on Mar 15, 2009 10:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Too bad Tubby won his national championship with another coach's players....

So yeah I can question his ability as a coach b/c he wasn’t too impressive after that. I don’t necessarily think he sucks, but I’m happy with Rick Barnes and could also compile a quick list of coaches I’d rather have than Tubby.
The bifocals he wears are nice though…

by SneezyBeltran on Mar 16, 2009 12:53 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The reality of Tubby Smith as a coach

probably falls somewhere between “great coach” and “only won with Pitino’s players.” Kentucky fans were ridiculously hard on him and probably don’t have very realistic expectations right now considering their relative place in college basketball, particularly in terms of a recruiting base. At the same time, Tubby never really wanted that level of scrutiny and never recruited nearly as well as the charismatic Pitino.

He’s a great fit for MInnesota, though, with much lower expectations and a chance to be his own coach, not the successor of Pitino, shows he could never have hoped to fill. I imagine Tubby has been happier in the last two years than he was at any point at Kentucky, where the expectations visibly weighed on him. Tubby’s the best coach Minnesota has had in my lifetime and will probably shape the program into a consistently solid program in the Big 10, which is more than they have had recently besides the good Bobby Jackson-led teams in the ’90s.

by GhostofBigRoy on Mar 16, 2009 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a valid criticism

He won with another coach’s players? It still takes an awful lot to get to and win a national championship regardless of how good your players were. It isn’t the most talented team that wins—it takes much more to being a college coach. If it were so easy, everyone would be doing it and coaches wouldn’t be making millions.

So let’s assume for a moment that your premise is correct. How can we prove that? Well, let’s look at what Tubby has done elsewhere. He brought Tulsa back to back sweet 16 appearances. Yes, Tulsa, was actually relevant once upon a time in the NCAA tournament; not anymore. Let’s move on to Georgia. He went 45-19 in two seasons, giving the Bulldogs their first ever back to back 20+ win seasons. Now the only way Georgia qualifies for a post season tournament is by winning the conference tournament. On to Kentucky. Let’s just ignore the national championship for a moment (as if a national championship means absolutely nothing) and look at the other years. 5 SEC regular season championships and 5 tournament championships. Some people like to criticize his lack of success in the NCAA tournament. He had 6 sweet 16 appearances and 4 elite 8 appearances. The NCAA tournament really is a crapshoot anyways. Disagree? Then why has there only been one year ever where all four #1 seeds made it to the Final Four? One loss and you are done. On to Minnesota where he took a 9 win team and turned them into a 20 win team with largely the same players. And now the Gophers are in the NCAA tournament and Kentucky is in the NIT. Next year will be even better for the Gophers as their two big freshman and stud freshman guard become sophomores and two more highly touted freshman take the floor. Deep NCAA tournament runs will be in our future thanks entirely to Tubby.

by rencito on Mar 16, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes it is a valid criticism

It does take talent. Look at last year’s championship teams of Memphis and Kansas. They were the two most talented teams imo. You do make the point that last year was rare b/c all #1 seeds made it to the Final Four.
The fact of the matter is he did win with Pitino’s players just like Les Miles won a national championship with Nick Saban’s players.
Ghost more eloquently explained the Tubby Smith situation than I did. I don’t feel he sucks or is even a bad coach. I do think he’s good, but not great. I’m not trying to dog the guy.
However, I don’t think Minnesota will be making deep runs in the tournament, b/c he didn’t do that with Kentucky after he won the n.c., so why would he be able to do it in Minnesota with less talent and maybe a tougher conference?

by SneezyBeltran on Mar 16, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just saying...

…it takes a lot more than talent alone to win. When you get the rare intersection of both talent and coaching, you get a dynasty. I think it is safe to say that Tubby had a dynasty within the SEC when he was there (5 regular season championships). And now, with the same talent level, they are in the NIT.

And that is half my point. He was just as good of a recruiter at Kentucky as Pitino was. Kentucky fans act the same way about basketball as many Longhorns fans act about football. If they don’t get every single five star recruit, they think the coach is doing a terrible job of recruiting. This is even more the case in basketball where you have much smaller rosters and more schools.

Deep runs in the tournament? 4 elite 8 appearances in 10 years aren’t deep runs? Yes, the more talented teams do win. But every year there are at least 8-10 teams that are good enough to win 6 games in late March/early April. In most pro sports, there is less of the crapshoot because you play a seven game series. In the NCAA, it often comes down to luck between the best teams. 8 sweet sixteen appearances in 10 years shows that he always had Kentucky in the conversation.

by rencito on Mar 16, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rick Pitino put together the "dynasty"

if you want to call it that….Look at the last few years of Rick Pitino’s coaching era(94 season til the 96 season). There was an elite 8 appearance followed by a national championship and in ‘96 they played in a national championship and lost to Arizona.
In came Tubby Smith, ala Barry Switzer style and won a national championship. I mean no insult by comparing the guy to Switzer, but that’s a very similar situation of coming in, inheriting players, system and a championship caliber team that has already won a championship.
Did he still win with them? Yes he did and that’s makes him a pretty good coach, but my guess is he’s not the only coach that could’ve done it.
I do agree with you on the premise that Kentucky fans have unreal expectations and that’s a fair analogy to compare them to Longhorn football fans, although they have a few more titles than us….

by SneezyBeltran on Mar 16, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Btw, thanks for your perspective rencito

Are you from Minnesota? In any case, congratulations on making it through the Minnesota winters. I visited Macalester College in December of my senior year in high school when I was looking at schools (I’m from Indiana) and the absolute, horrible cold completely eliminated Macalester from consideration and made my November visit to Austin seem all the better. Needless to say, I ended up in Texas and never looked back.
As an Illinois fan growing up, my most intense memory of Minnesota was thinking that Rick Rickert was a straight little punk.

by GhostofBigRoy on Mar 16, 2009 1:07 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I'm a Golden Gopher

The winters really are no worse than summers in the South (not necessarily Austin, specifically). In fact, I would argue better. You can at least have some fun in the winter skating, skiing, snowball fights, etc. In the southern heat, you can’t even stand being outside. The old adage about putting more clothes on but can only take so much off applies.

In any event, I will be a UT grad student come August, so I will at least have a rooting interest for the Horns if they do beat us.

by rencito on Mar 16, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point about summers down here

I learned to deal with them by being in the pool as much as possible. Watervolleyball, baby!

by GhostofBigRoy on Mar 16, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Believe me
The old adage about putting more clothes on but can only take so much off applies.

This applies to the girls too, and you’ll like what you see.

-rBr-

by run Bevo run on Mar 16, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

battle tested???

the Big10 is overflowing with mediocrity

by 7Swords of Salat on Mar 16, 2009 2:22 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The birdshot pattern of your blog memberships is outstanding

If you are married, I bet your spouse hates tv time.

-rBr-

by run Bevo run on Mar 16, 2009 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Secret...

make sure your spouse/significant other is at least a casual fan of sports as well. It helps a ton that she likes watching Twins baseball almost as much as I do. Also—having DVR helps a ton.

by rencito on Mar 16, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Based on what?

Mediocrity? Where? The conference is so deep that they beat up on each other.

Proof:

The Big 10 has wins over Texas, UCLA, Duke, Louisville, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Missouri, Florida State, Boston College, Butler, Virgina Tech, Miami, Kansas State, and Notre Dame. I realize those last four didn’t make the tournament, but they are still good teams from power conferences (okay, Butler isn’t from a power conference, but they are a good team).

I think that our performances against teams outside the Big 10 shows the strength of the conference. It is certainly stronger and deeper than the Big 12. Indiana is horrible and Iowa isn’t very good. But teams 1-9 including Northwestern (they beat Florida State among others) and Penn State (beat both Michigan State and Purdue, but had a crap non conference schedule) who didn’t make the field.

by rencito on Mar 16, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Completely disagree

3 Big XII teams are seeded in the first 3 lines, only 1 Big Ten is. 3 more Big XII teams are seeded on the 7 and 8 lines. You have to get to both Big Ten 10 seeds to get to the Big Ten’s sixth team.

Are Wisconsin, Penn State, and Northwestern that much better than Kansas State, Baylor, and Nebraska?

The top of the Big XII is clearly better and I’d argue that depth wise, the conference is at least on par with the Big Ten if not better.

by DoubleB on Mar 16, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The fun of this is...

…we will actually get to see it played out over the next few weeks to prove who is better. This is my favorite time of year.

by rencito on Mar 16, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lots of quality wins there

more than I realized. good point.

but take a look at some of the OOC losses:

HOME losses: West VA by 28, Northeastern by 13, Rhode Island, Temple, Lipscomb (a team which later lost to South Carolina Upstate…. yeah, Upstate)

Road losses: Stanford (who finished 2nd to last in PAC10), Drake (who finished 2nd to last in the MVC) by 17, St. Joe’s by 26, Kentucky by 18

by 7Swords of Salat on Mar 16, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I already discounted Indiana

They are definitely horrible. Every conference has their terrible teams. The Big East’s bottom 3 teams are 29-67 (.302 win pct) including DePaul who didn’t win a regular season conference game (at least Indiana won one). The Northeastern, Lipscomb, and Kentucky losses were all Indiana.

All of the losses you mentioned above with the exception of WVA were by teams that did NOT make the tournament…so why are we talking about them? I could go to any conference’s bottom teams and pick out just as many bad losses. So I don’t think this proves anything.

by rencito on Mar 16, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was just listing the “bad” losses. there were plenty of losses to tourney teams too:

Maryland by 18 neutral site, Maryland again, UNC by 25 @ MichSt., Duke by 16 @ Purdue, Duke again by 15 neutral site, Oklahoma neutral site, Clemson @ Illinois, West VA by 28 @ tOSU, West VA again by 19 @ Iowa, Temple @ Penn State, UCONN by 20, Marquette, Texas @ Wisconsin, Butler, Boston College, Notre Dame by 38, Wake Forest by 25, Gonzaga by 16.

the last 3 were Indiana losses. 18 losses, 10 of which were at home or neutral sites. also 10 of the losses were by more than 15 points.

BigTen record against ACC/BigEast opponents: 7-12.

by 7Swords of Salat on Mar 16, 2009 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

correction

BigTen vs ACC/BigEast: 7-13

by 7Swords of Salat on Mar 16, 2009 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and 9 of those 13 losses were by 15 or more points.

Mediocrity

by 7Swords of Salat on Mar 17, 2009 2:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

BIG 10 > BIG 12

I can do the same thing to the Big 12:

Wins: Purdue, USC (2), California, Washington, Arizona, UCLA, Villanova, Wisconsin, Arizona State

Losses: Xavier, Illinois, Syracuse, Arizona, Michigan State (3), Gonzaga, Washington, Notre Dame, Wake Forest, Arizona State, Pitt

You guys proved you can beat the Pac 10, but that isn’t proving a whole lot. Against tournament teams from the Big 10/Big East the Big 12 is 3-8 (excluding the SEC, we can agree they are terrible—their auto bid got a #13 seed) and 3-10 when you include Gonzaga and Xavier.

BIG 10 > BIG 12

I would be willing to make a friendly wager that the Big 10 will outperform the Big 12 in the tournament.

by rencito on Mar 17, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't disagree with you.

The Big 12 is not very good this year. OU, Kansas and Missouri are probably better than everyone in the Big 10 other than Michigan State (which isn’t to say that MSU is necessarily better than those three). But there’s a huge drop off after that as Okie State, Texas, K-State and A&M are all very mediocre. The other 6 teams are either not very good (Nebraska), underperforming their ability (Baylor), or flat-out terrible (Colorado, Texas Tech, Iowa State).

The theme of the Big 10 is always something like this: depth-wise, among the best in the country, but middle-heavy. The Big 10 rarely has more than one team that is anything better than “pretty good” in a given year. This year, MSU is it, while Illinois and Purdue are “pretty good.” The Big 10 also rarely has more than a few teams that are very bad. So, I don’t know…congratulations on having a lot of mediocre teams that barely make the tournament every year instead of both consistently elite teams and a few terrible ones as well?

The conference as a whole might have a better winning percentage than the Big 12 will in the tourney, but I don’t know how much glory you can take from a few teams making the Sweet 16.

by billyzane on Mar 17, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly
congratulations on having a lot of mediocre teams

that was my point from the beginning. I don’t see how playing a bunch of mediocre teams night in and night out makes the BigTen’s tourney teams “battle tested”.

by 7Swords of Salat on Mar 17, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also, just for fun...

I took a look at what Ken Pomeroy’s stats say. By averaging the rankings of each team in a conference, you get an idea of the conference’s overall strength (including both strong teams and weak teams), regardless of whether you value having “great” teams at the expense of also having terrible teams, or you instead value “depth.” According to KenPom, the Big 12 has been stronger this year than the Big 10 (link). This data of course isn’t dispositive of the debate, but it’s as well-respected an objective measure as you can hope to get.

by billyzane on Mar 17, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good Point

I do like Pomeroy’s stats. Historically speaking, I am thinking that the Big 10 has had more Final Four teams in the last 10-15 years than most other conferences…but I don’t have a chance to look it up right now.

And Michigan State is very strong this year. Their big losses (Maryland and UNC) were without big man Goran Suton. I will be surprised if they don’t make it to the Final Four.

by rencito on Mar 17, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All I was trying to say

was that the BigTen is mediocre. I never said the Big12 was a better conference. The Big12 is also mediocre this year.

by 7Swords of Salat on Mar 17, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've always thought

you needed to separate the coaching/teaching aspect of the job from the recruiting. There aren’t many better “coaches” by the above definition than Tubby Smith. If given one game you had to win and could pick any coach in the college ranks to coach that game, Tubby would be near the top of my list.

That being said, it’s still about talent and I’d much rather be Texas than Minnesota even accounting for Tubby’s abilities.

by DoubleB on Mar 16, 2009 10:28 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

"I'd much rather be Texas than Minnesota..."

I’m not sure I understand what that is based on. You are saying Texas has more talent now, or will always have more talent, or what? The talent now may be debatable, but I’ll take the future of Minnesota over Texas at this point. Tubby got just as much top talent at Kentucky as Pitino did. Texas has certainly been very good the last 4-5 years, so they do have a better track record. But a 7/10 game in the NCAA tournament is usually pretty close.

by rencito on Mar 16, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he means as a program, not in this game.

The game is a tossup in my eyes. Texas is the “better” team probably, but is wildly inconsistent and can lose to anyone at any time. As far as whether you’d rather have Tubby or Rick helming your basketball program year-in and year-out, I believe DoubleB is saying he’d take Rick. I would too, personally.

Tubby seems like a great coach who can turn a middling or mid-major program into a winner from sheer force of basketball knowledge. Teams that are never going to get the best players benefit greatly from a coach like Tubby. Teams that have a chance to recruit elite-level talent don’t really. There’s only so far that “outperforming your talent level” can take you. At some point, you need talent. That’s why I’d pick Rick over Tubby to run the program. But yeah, this year, in this game, who the hell knows.

by billyzane on Mar 16, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, I meant in this game

Program-wise, I don’t know. I’d take Tubby over Barnes for X’s and O’s (and I don’t think it’s that close). Beyond that I think I take Barnes.

Regarding the game on Thursday, I feel Minnesota isn’t in this tournament without the win over a Louisville team still “finding itself” for lack of a better phrase. I don’t think they replicate that now nor necessarily even stay competitive. Minnesota, to me, was overseeded. I like the matchups and ultimately I just believe Texas is the better team (not by a ton, but not by a sliver either).

by DoubleB on Mar 16, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We're very similar teams

We’ve both been inconsistent and showed we can play very well or play pretty poorly. Minnesota doesn’t have a bad loss. The only bad loss that Texas has is against Arkansas. For both of us the story is the same—depends which team shows up. I guess that is what every 7/10 or 8/9 matchups offer.

Minnesota will be a very formidable team for both coaching and recruiting reasons I already mentioned above. I think the Gophers will have more talent that Texas in the years to come as long as Tubby is there. And even if he leaves, Flip Saunders will take over the program from there. So get used to seeing the Golden Gophers in March/April from here on out.

by rencito on Mar 16, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Minn will have more talent?

Have you seen our recruiting classes for 2009, 2010 and 2011? Add in Jai Lucas with the 2009 class and Minnesota’s talent level doesn’t come close.

2009 – 2 5-stars, 2 4-stars (added in Lucs).
2010 – 2 5-stars (can’t sign yet but have committed)
2011 – 1 potential 5-star (can’t sign but comitted)

"Football's so important in Texas. On the West Coast, it's a social. On the East Coast, it's a culture. Here, it's a religion."
-- Major Applewhite

by Sunkist on Mar 16, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I also don't understand "the future" at Minnesota being brighter than Texas?...

We have the #2 ranked class this year and the top player in the country committed for 2010. I will personally take the future of Texas as being brighter, not that the stunner shades don’t need to be put on if you’re minnesota fan also….
If it makes you feel any better, Kirby Puckett was my favorite baseball player of all time.

by SneezyBeltran on Mar 16, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As another Gopher fan...

I generally agree with your analysis after watching quite a few Gopher games this year. I’m a Minnesotan, through-and-through, but now a Longhorn for grad school. I don’t think that Tubby & company will pull this game out unless Texas goes into one of its funks (which I wouldn’t put past the boys in burnt orange). Now come next year, I love the U of M’s chances…just not this year.

by LonghornedTwin on Mar 16, 2009 11:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Holy Crap

They have the Damian Johnson hybrid? That thing’s operational!

I don’t even know…

by Horn Brain on Mar 16, 2009 2:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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