WHY....
by PineypointG on Mar 2, 2009 11:53 AM CST
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PrintWhy does UT struggle so much with OOS recruits and elite in-state recruits? Maybe im looking through burnt orange colored glasses. But UT is FREAKIN UT right? We should have Texas on lock like Gitmo! Whats the FREAKIN problem. OU has no business beatin us for recruits. Definately not the top level ones. USC doesnt have this problem in Cali. And you dont see many elite prospects leaving Florida. What is the problem? And what can be done about it?
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Maybe Ricky, or, ...ehem...Simms
Hook'em!!
by ArcticLonghorn on Mar 2, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
I don’t get why it’s such a dumb question. UT has been losing out to OU for recruits like McFarland, Peterson, Calhoun, etc. and it’s more than a small concern. Why the hostility?
by burntorangehorn on Mar 2, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
A. Texas lost Peterson in the midst of getting mudstomped by OU 5 years in a row. That’s not a hard one to figure out.
B. Texas didn’t recruit Jermie Calhoun.
C. JaMarkus McFarland is a weak-minded kid with a crazy mother. Those kinds of players rarely work out, it’s best for all involved that he ended up north of the border.
I’m not worried about Texas players. Mack is taking everyone he wants in this state. I’m more concerned about the last-minute, out-of-state guys who never seem to grab the Texas cap. That is what I’d like to get rectified.
The OP did express concern about both the OOS recruits and the Texas kids.
by burntorangehorn on Mar 2, 2009 1:15 PM CST up reply actions
Whether it’s best or not that McFarland went elsewhere, the simple fact is that UT went all-in on him, as did OU, and did not win. That happens far too often.
And the condescension toward the OP for apparently being not as old a crow around the “blogosphere” is rather unwarranted. C’mon, not everyone found this site at once. I didn’t find it until less than a year ago, because I’ve spent much of my time operating in third-world countries.
I hope it’s comfortable up there on your pedestal. If you don’t deign to answer the OP’s question because it’s too much a re-hash and/or you lack the time, why bother coming in here and posting your condescending perspective? Why not just point him in the direction of a thread that actually does address his question?
by burntorangehorn on Mar 2, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
McFarland
Everything I’ve read indicates that Texas really backed off towards the end of the recruitment, actually. I think they had concerns about how McFarland was being recruited by OU, and his sudden interest indicated possible character issues, if not his own, then his family’s.
We all saw the Evans debacle, but the part about UT backing off seemed overblown in non-Evans reports. Anyway, I’m okay with losing a recruit here and there. I was far more pissed about the Evans article than I was about McFarland’s choice not to attend UT.
by burntorangehorn on Mar 2, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
because its been hashed and rehashed in multitude around here
and arguments like his attempting to generalize the issue are an epic failure in the use of logic and common sense.
look, i have neither the time nor desire to sit and explain why losing a McFarland or a Calhoun is not an indication of UT’s supposed doom & gloom “failure” at being able to attract big time recruits. If you cant look at these recruiting battles on an isolated basis and examine the circumstances for what they are and not assign them as symptoms of UTs recruiting problems, then I cant help you.
Furthermore, if you dont understand UTs recruiting philosophy, one which allows us to haul in top 5 recruiting classes regularly, then you obviously havent been around the UT blogosphere very long or you have failed to take a serious analytical look at the situation and/or examine the multitude of other opinions on the matter.
either way, this sky is falling mentality is ridiculous and is brought up far too often.
If you don’t have the time, then perhaps you’re not the OP’s intended audience. Sheesh.
by burntorangehorn on Mar 2, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
Whether it’s best or not that McFarland went elsewhere, the simple fact is that UT went all-in on him, as did OU, and did not win. That happens far too often.
And the condescension toward the OP for apparently being not as old a crow around the “blogosphere” is rather unwarranted. C’mon, not everyone found this site at once. I didn’t find it until less than a year ago, because I’ve spent much of my time operating in third-world countries.
I hope it’s comfortable up there on your pedestal. If you don’t deign to answer the OP’s question because it’s too much a re-hash and/or you lack the time, why bother coming in here and posting your condescending perspective? Why not just point him in the direction of a thread that actually does address his question?
by burntorangehorn on Mar 2, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
far too often?
state your case here then. define “far too often” and list all the players that we’ve gone “all in on” and lost. I assure you the list is shorter than you think.
and i posted because this is the same mindless drivel that led PB to make his Morning Coffee post this morning. If the “OP” wanted to start a useful debate on the subject, he would have done a little research on his own and asked something more thought provoking than
We should have Texas on lock like Gitmo! Whats the FREAKIN problem.
i dont care how long youve been around. this is the internet. nothing ever disappears. see PB’s post below referring to every single one of GOBR’s posts on UT and recruiting. recruiting has been ad nauseum around here, especially over the past couple months. starting a fanpost asking why we always miss on big time recruits, which is a flat untruth for one thing, is just plain lazy and does little to stimulate thoughtful debate.
Do you really need a full list?
If you indeed don’t have the time, which you’ve said you don’t, then why ask that others make such a concerted, time-consuming effort?
by burntorangehorn on Mar 2, 2009 3:11 PM CST up reply actions
seriously
its pretty much that simple. If you want to stimulate debate, you should present arguable FACTs, not personal OPINIONS.
I really dont understand how this has been such a difficult concept for certain individuals to grasp today.
May I point out that what you have posted has also been opinion?
by burntorangehorn on Mar 2, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
What, that I made the fan post? I didn’t. Someone else did. I’m just defending a guy who has been jumped by a bunch of holier-than-thou regulars.
by burntorangehorn on Mar 2, 2009 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
Does anyone see the irony here?
After PB’s eloquent, if not a bit verbose, Morning Coffee thread today?
+1 on PB's treatise
As to OOS recruiting, what’s the point?
Horns lost one game in ’04 and ’08 . . . that means they were one good afternoon/night from playing for the MNC in those years. . . They won it in ’05 . . . they were right with a half-dozen other teams late in ’06 when the starting QB went down, leading to a pair of late-season losses.
Talent is not the problem, whether that talent is from Tacoma or Tuscola. Mack may go down as the school’s greatest coach. If he does, it’ll be because he learned from the man WHO IS the school’s greatest when DKR said (paraphrasing), “You have to take care of the Texas high schools.”
Not this again...
I think all Longhorn fans have been bothered about this at some point in their fan-lives, but we can’t get them all. We got plenty of talent and can win championships with what we got. Ryan P. was an elite OOS prospect. Guess where he’s at?
Rule #1: Read
If these are the questions you’re asking, you’re not reading enough. Go here. Spend a good couple hours just reading. Digest. Return prepared for a substantive discussion about what Texas is doing very well and where, on the fringes, it can improve.
--PB--
by Peter Bean on Mar 2, 2009 1:33 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
In State
Texas picks who they want in Texas. J. McFarland was the only player they didn’t get last year. Texas got GG, M. Walters, and A. Okafor. C. Howell actually passed JM as the best DT in Texas. J. Calhoun wanted to go to Texas, but Texas didn’t want him for some reason. Texas pretty much picks who they want and the rest go to ou, LSU, and a&m. Its usually a battle for a few top players, but if they don’t pick Texas then its probably best for Texas.
OOS recruits don’t understand the significance of UT because they don’t live in Texas.
Texas picks who they want in Texas. J. McFarland was the only player they didn’t get last year.
Don’t forget about Shepard, Loston, and Pratt.
OOS recruits don’t understand the significance of UT because they don’t live in Texas.
Then why do OOS recruits seem to understand the significance of out-of-state schools every single recruiting cycle? I don’t buy this one.
by burntorangehorn on Mar 2, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
Shepard doesn't count
They weren’t going to get Shepard and Gilbert. They got the one they probably wanted more. You can’t claim that not getting 2 5* QBs in one year is somehow a failure.
again
you can point to shepard loston, and pratt, but none of these players was seen as guys that UT went all in on and lost on. none of them were guys we couldnt live without.
i hate to break it to you, but sometimes there are kids out there that want to go to other schools than UT. I know that its hard to fathom that we cant just secure the committment of every kid in america with the snap of our fingers.
we wanted Gilbert. He was our top choice at QB. Shepard would have been nice to have as well, but he was a luxury, nothing more.
We never had a chance with Loston. he had zero interest in us. How do you force a kid to like you when he expresses outwardly that he does not. If you know the answer to that, youre a Jedi and the University would love to employ your services.
Pratt, we were never that high on anyway. Again, our target was Whaley. Pratt would have been a luxury, again.
Im really not sure how these concepts are difficult to understand.
You seem to be rationalizing every single case. So why does USC not have a problem signing seemingly a dozen four- and five-star running backs in three seasons? I think you’re rationalizing for UT in ways that you wouldn’t rationalize for others.
by burntorangehorn on Mar 2, 2009 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
I agree
Lets get the recruiting of USC, the history of Michigan, the championships of Notre Dame, the Heisman trophy winners of tOSU, the defense of the SEC, and the offense of the WAC.
One school out of 119 apparently recruits RBs better than we do (and has done so shadily – see Reggie Bush), and all of the sudden we are terrible? Whats irrational is expecting UT to be the best of the best of the best of the best, because in reality, no one is. What we are, is freaking good, with a great program, with successful recruiting, with a tremendous winning record, and a heck of a good coaching staff and all around sports department.
We dont have a problem recruiting kids. We do a damn fine job of it. What you want and what Mack wants are different, and frankly, Mack’s career record at Texas is pretty damn good.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Mar 2, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Holy hyperbole, Batman! Who said “all of a sudden we are terrible”? I never said that; those are your words.
It’s irrational to expect Ut to be the best of the best of the best et al, but it’s not irrational to expect UT to beat OU for recruits and in games (admittedly, things have improved slightly in both depts.) and, more importantly, win a conference championship (definitely not improved) here and there, is it?
by burntorangehorn on Mar 2, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions
I dont buy it
This post still exists if we won the conference in 2001, 2006 and 2008, all three of which should have happened, and at no fault of our recruiting practices, and hardly the fault of anyone. Part of winning is health and luck, especially when you play in a division as dangerous year in and out as the Big 12 south has been over the past 8 years.
It hasn’t always fallen our way, big whoop. You don’t need to revise your whole process because Simms had a terrible game, Colt got a pinched spine and Blake dropped a pick.
( I don’t blame you Blake, just needed a quick hit to resonate in the sentence. Id go with Shipley’s dropped pass, Cosby/Orakpo injuries, Crabtree being Irvin, or the playcall on the 1 yard line, but that would have ruined the cadence of what I was trying to say.)
by BoddickerIsClutch on Mar 2, 2009 4:05 PM CST up reply actions
It hasn’t always fallen our way, but only once has it, while the other times it pretty much always falls the Sooners’ way. Is that acceptable?
by burntorangehorn on Mar 2, 2009 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
My asserition is that the correlation does not imply causation.
I’m not saying that I’m happy about the Sooners pulling through when we haven’t, but what I am saying is that OOS recruits is not the cause.
In fact I believe that Mack and company have done an excellent job putting us in a position to win them, and that there’s a whole lot that goes into winning this division and conference besides just getting a few recruits.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Mar 2, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
because
they don’t have a national power close to them, and they don’t have competition in their conference.
also
Texas can’t recruit every GREAT player in Texas. Texas pretty much had to choose between Gilbert and Shepard..and they chose Gilbert (good decision). My point is that this happens at other position besides QB.
Loston and Pratt
knew that E. Thomas, B. Gideon, and C. Scott have things locked down at safety for awhile at UT (maybe Brewster too).
well...
Matthews wiil have to fight for a position at Texas, when he can just show up and play at a place like a&m (same for Seastrunk).
And again...
Look at the Rivlas top one hundered from Texas. In our early commitment list we have only one in the top ten. With the rest still deciding. My question was why dont the Seatrunks and Jeffcoats of the world who DO grow up in Texas not jump on the offer as soon as it is presented, why do we have to fight other OOS schools for our home grown talent?
cont..
And we rarely win any OOS recruiting battles. USC is a NATIONAL recruiting force and they have just as much talent in California as we do here. They get the ABSOLUTE best from Cali and then go national with the rest of their class. It seems as if we try to get the best from TX and then take the rest from Texas. With as much money and clout as UT has its no reason that we shouldnt be a national player.
You are given a choice of 30 willing supermodels
One of whom is the girl next door. Do you propose to her immediately upon reaching 18 years of age, or play the field, travel all to far off lands, live to see Pete Carroll’s blinding smile and witness silicon enhanced women romancing each other?
UT will never be USC, for that I am eternally grateful, but it is not the sole professional football team in one of the world’s most high profile cities. That, in large part, is your reason.
proud to swim home
Point taken...
but you have to remember some other big programs (I’ll fight the urge of accusing which ones) offer “incentives” aka cash, jobs, houses, etc. to these elite recruits. Mack does his BEST to make sure Texas isn’t involved in these practices. In the past, Mack asked JoePa what he should do to get recruits being courted with such incentives. JoePa’s answer: ‘Let ’em go. They’re not who you want.’ Texas may not be squeaky clean, but Mack tries.
Texas
has everything they need in their own backyard..why leave?
Honestly..
I never considered the shady part of the recruiting battles and that would probably explain some of the defections. Once again I may using burtorange colored glasses but I truly believe UT stays on the Up and Up with its recruiting process. And that would certainly put us at a disadvantage
PineypointG:
Distinguished from the difficult to please Skeptic, the Old Maids tend only to pop up when the team is down, and seemingly just to VERY LOUDLY AND FORCEFULLY alert the rest of the Longhorn family of their indignation.
First and foremost, your fanpost comes on the heels of PB’s excellent diatribe directed at those who have taken a “sky is falling” approach with the recent play of our basketball team.
It’s absolutely unbelievable what the Texas coaching staff is doing right now and every other program in the country must be looking enviously at what is brewing in Austin — the makings of a program poised to assert itself as the absolute best in the country.
What makes your post even more incredulous is the fact that you’re playing the Old Maid card immediately after a very successful Junior Day weekend haul brought in by our Horns, a commitment list recounted by GoBR here and by the fanposts here. I know you didn’t miss that, as you initially posted your comment about the situation in the fanpost thread.
The point you bring up is a good one, and one that has been rehashed many times, most notably after losing out on a big-name recruit (see McFarland, Jamarkus or Scott, Darrell). The issue we have is the “gut reaction” approach you’ve taken after Mack and Co.‘s amazing ability to secure some of the top talent in the state. For more details, check out BZ’s Fan Post Etiquette. Contrary to provoking a thoughtful discussion, your comments and stand-alone fanpost seemed reactionary, hastily thought-out, poorly written, grammatically incorrect, and generally a waste of time to read (thus, my loud noises comment). If you want a fanpost to start spirited discussion, try organizing your thoughts first, add some opinion, and write some text we can comprehend.
by jc25 on Mar 2, 2009 2:36 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Idiot!
This is my first fanpost becasue I am a new member to the site not new to the horns. If it were so poorly articulated and horribly put together then why did it recieve so much feedback. Its a very valid question and point that I am attempting to make. If you put as much effort and zeal into actually contributing to the discussion as you put toward being a totally pompous and arrogant asshole then this would be a much better and welcoming site.
did you read anything that JC25 just wrote?
because he just basically explained to you why you got so much feedback, and why people were giving you a hard time.
Completely agree
Unfortunately, my employer doesn’t pay me to sit around and write dissertations about the Horns all day; I spend enough time on just reading BON, let alone have enough time to research and express my opinions. That’s why I value the posts written by GoBR, PB, AW, DC, BZ and the rest; because they take valuable personal time to give us such wonderful writing. I also greatly enjoy reading the thought-out opinions of others when posted in the fanposts (or comments), such as this one here. And yes, I generally limit my comments to snarky opinions disguised as fact, but they mean well. Consider it a gift from the excess time reading Barking Carnival.
And as I said, you bring up a valid point, and I hope you keep contributing to the site. But please, express it in a more coherent manner.
IM NEW!!
I wasnt around for all the rehashing of this subject. I have been a member of the site for less than a week. If it has been discussed then how about pointing me to the previous post or article or etc…. How about that. Isnt the purpose of the site to put forth info..start a discussion….recieve feedback?
Yes...
One of the things this site does extremely well is “to put forth info…” You got spanked (and only lightly at first) because you were lazy. The spanking continued because you defended it.
?
Did anyone notice that my post had question marks. Since everyone on this site is apparently a Rhodes Scholar. How could you’ll have made such an oversite. There were question marks meaning I was asking a question and I didnt know the information. I wasnt saying anything as a fact or representing my opinion as such. I was asking questions about subjects I obviously didnt have the answer to. If i had the answers I would have used periods right?
you made assertions
Why does UT struggle so much with OOS recruits and elite in-state recruits
it was a lazy fanpost. how many different ways can this be explained?
And to respond to your points:
Why does UT struggle so much with OOS recruits and elite in-state recruits? Maybe im looking through burnt orange colored glasses.
UT struggles with OOS recruits because Mack made a conscious decision to primarily target Texas recruits to complete the vast majority of his classes. Check out this well-written series by SI’s Andy Staples as to why. Texas “struggles” with elite in-state recruits because some of them don’t want to play for Texas. By the way, I assume your struggles include: Garrett Gilbert, Alex Okafor, Aaron Williams, Sergio Kindle, Frank Okam, Tony Hills, Rod Wright, Justin Blalock, and Vince Young. For further brief analysis, check out this comment I made from a while back.
But UT is FREAKIN UT right?
Yes it is. So is the University of Tennessee.
We should have Texas on lock like Gitmo! Whats the FREAKIN problem.
I thought the US closed Gitmo? So apparently the problem is Obama’s policies. Not sure how that relates to UT football, though.
OU has no business beatin us for recruits.
Agreed; I think that’s why they’re all committing to the Longhorns this February.
Definately not the top level ones.
You’re right. Gah, I can’t believe Adrian Peterson didn’t want to win that 2005 National Championship with us! Damn Rhett Bomar for not taking money from Red McCombs Auto Spectacular! A pox on you, Jermie Calhoun, for not having the grades to make it to Austin!
USC doesnt have this problem in Cali. And you dont see many elite prospects leaving Florida.
Check the 2009 Rivals Top 100. USC got 5 of 11 prospects from the state of California. The Gators secured 3 of 18 prospects from the state of Florida. 5 left the state (OSU, OSU, Notre Dame, Tennessee, Georgia) and a 6th (Orson Charles is still undecided). The Horns got 6 of 12 from Texas.
What is the problem? And what can be done about it?
The problem is because Texas secures its class so early, and Mack is so emphatic about recruiting “his way” and getting kids that want to come to Texas, we often lose out on “high-profile” recruits that decide to make their commitment late in the process. This works out well in some cases (see Alex Okafor shooting up the Rivals list after a monstrous senior season or a Garrett Gilbert commitment out of the way early locking down our QB spot and building the rest of the class around him), and doesn’t work out well in others (see us getting burned by Jamarkus McFarland). To mitigate the risk of “losing” out on late commitments, Mack decides to take the majority of his class early. So yeah, we may lose out on Lache Seastrunk, but as a contingency plan, we’ve got Traylon Shead in the fold. Some people disagree with this tactic; that’s a valid point of contention. I bet you Mack’s not too disappointed about how it’s unfolded, though, and given the performance of our team over the past 5 years, I’m not sure our fans should, either.
by jc25 on Mar 2, 2009 2:57 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Thank You..
Im assuming you wrote that befor u read my my A hole blast, but I do appreciate your FOOTBALL related response to my question. I dont claim to know it all ( hence the question marks) just looking for info and discussion during this barren football offseason.
P.S. Gitmo isnt closed yet
This thread summed up.
GenerALIZATion?
You cant make generalizations without supporting them with facts.
Why CANT I?
Because if there’s no substance then there’s nothing to discuss.
I’ll just INSULT my intended audience then!
That will rarely increase your readership, also we will fight back.
filler
filler
The End.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Mar 2, 2009 4:41 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Can't believe I actually took the time to do this
OU has no business beatin us for recruits.
I guess this is just a “grass is greener” line of thought? UT is actually winning nearly all of the recruiting battles against OU. According to Rivals…
2006 Class
OU signees offered by Texas (1)
Pryce Macon
Texas signees offered by OU (10)
Chykie Brown, Brian Ellis, James Henry, Lamarr Houston, Eddie Jones, Sergio Kindle, Josh Marshall, Phillip Payne, Jevan Snead, J’Marcus Webb
2007 Class
OU signees offered by Texas (0)
Texas signees offered by OU (8)
Sam Acho, Tray Allen, John Chiles, Kyle Hix, Andre Jones, James Kirkendoll, Christian Scott, Ben Wells
2008 Class
OU signees offered by Texas (1)
Stephen Good
Texas signees offered by OU (8)
Dan Buckner, DJ Grant, DeSean Hales, Jarvis Humphrey, Dravannti Johnson, Luke Poehlmann, Kheeston Randall, David Snow
2009 Class
OU signees offered by Texas (3)
Kevin Brent, Gabe Lynn, Jamarkus McFarland
Texas signees offered by OU (9)
Tariq Allen, Thomas Ashcraft, Eryon Barnett, Marcus Davis, Calvin Howell, Derek Johnson, Alex Okafor, Kenny Vaccaro, Chris Whaley
2010 Class (incomplete)
OU signees offered by Texas (0)
Texas signees offered by OU (11)
Aaron Benson, Carrington Byndom, DeAires Cotton, Greg Daniels, Ahmad Dixon, Ashton Dorsey, John Harris, Tevin Jackson, Adrian Phillips, Darius Terrell, Connor Wood
by gwh65 on Mar 2, 2009 4:44 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
Are you kidding me?
2006 Class
OU signees offered by Texas (1)
Pryce Macon
2008 Class
OU signees offered by Texas (1)
Stephen Good
OU signees offered by Texas (3)
Kevin Brent, Gabe Lynn, Jamarkus McFarland
WTF? We’re FREAKIN’ UT. What is that… FIVE in the past three years we lost to OU? What’s the FREAKIN’ problem? FREAKING!
by TheElusiveShadow on Mar 2, 2009 4:54 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Hmm
I guess this is just a "grass is greener" line of thought?
I don’t know about the grass being greener, but your post is.
by goingforthecorner on Mar 2, 2009 6:55 PM CST up reply actions
lesson
I was always taught that stupid questions deserve stupid answers. I maintain that this adage holds true for fanposts.
by Jason Mayer on Mar 2, 2009 4:46 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
lesson part deux
In school, I was always told that there was no such thing as a stupid question. In the real world, I realized that this was not true.
by 6th street on Mar 2, 2009 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
re: lesson
That’s just what teachers tell you so they’ll have something to laugh about in the teachers’ lounge.
This post made thousands of aggies cry.
And beergut lost 50 pounds just contemplating the wasted comments.
Tell ME
What school gets’s every recruit they want
Everyone loses somebody
It competition its part of the game Just understand that
While this post was repetitive and poorly posed
the fact that everyone decided to be tremendous dicks about it is far more troubling to me.
Most of the guys they get are from North Texas.
Yes I know they get theguy from Houston and sometimes they walk in and get the guy fromAustin, but I do remember 2 top 100 guys that they got from Oklahoma. One was from Jenks ( sorry I dont remember his name) the other was Adam Dorian from Duncan Ok. Those guys never saw the field. The guys in North Texas are really closer to Norman than they are Austin. As much as I hate Oklahoma Norman is not a bad town. It has its appeal to it. Austin is a great city one of my favorite but I can see why people would like Norman. With that being said I wouldnt choose OU because the fans are the worst fans in college football. Their coach is the biggest pompous ass that I have ever met. But to each their own.
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