Calipari to Kentucky
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4031573
Not sure what to do think of this. I guess the money was too much to pass by, but while Kentucky's tradition is no doubt richer, I don't see how UK is better than Memphis' basketball program right now. Then again, maybe he just wanted a challenge.
At least it seems like Calipari is doing this much better than how Rich Rod left West Virginia, but still, Memphis will feel the hit. Top recruited players may not come, and players might elect to jump early. I'm sure it's a bummer for Memphis fans.
I kind of think Kentucky is not an enviable job because it comes with very high (maybe unrealistic) expectations in such a short time, and if they are not met the fans go crazy. But Calipari is a great coach and I'm curious to see what he can do.
Texas fans, if you don't appreciate Rick Barnes, you're lost. Be thankful he has stayed so long and has built Texas basketball to a power.
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Interesting article on Kentucky/Calipari
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=4032093&sportCat=ncb\
He cannot recruit any better than he did at Memphis. He must feel left out when he sees Pitinco in this ad (see below) He must figure that coaching Kentucky increases the odds he can join the fun.
by IUTex on Apr 1, 2009 5:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Does World Wide Wes follow Calipari to UK?
A lot of Calipari’s recruiting success seems to rest on the suspicious laurels of one William Wesley, a behind-the-scenes power figure shrouded in shadows. If WWW follows Calipari to Kentucky, than Memphis is in huge trouble. It’s unclear, to me at least, whether Wesley’s greater allegiance lies to Memphis or to the slimy Calipari. Time shall tell.
by GhostofBigRoy on Apr 1, 2009 7:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They already said Tyreke Evans
is going to leave Memphis, and I’m sure there recruits will decommit and He still has a recruit undecided, deciding between Memphis and Kentucky
by BlinkOneGun on Apr 1, 2009 10:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
pot, kettle, black
while Kentucky’s tradition is no doubt richer, I don’t see how UK is better than Memphis’ basketball program right now.
Agreed on your second point, but that can and will change. That’s like saying that A&M was a better football program than UT or OU during the early 90’s. That’s great and all, but the first part of your qualifier is much more important when weighing Calipari’s decision. Consider it regression the the mean; Memphis basketball will fall, and Kentucky basketball will rise.
I kind of think Kentucky is not an enviable job because it comes with very high (maybe unrealistic) expectations in such a short time, and if they are not met the fans go crazy.
Is this not something we face at Texas? Mack and GD won a freakin National Championship, yet many Texas fans dismiss this as a product of Vince and quickly chastise them for many things (chief among them the bubble screen and the subpar running game). Things at Kentucky are no different. 20 win seasons may be nice for some, Sweet 16 appearances for others, but at Kentucky, it’s final four or bust. The Kentucky job isn’t for everyone (as a parallel, see Urban Meyer turning down the Notre Dame job). But thinking that Kentucky basketball isn’t an enviable job is on par with thinking that Texas football isn’t an enviable job. Make no mistake; it’s one of the ultimate prestige jobs for its sport.
by jc25 on Apr 1, 2009 10:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And yet...there isn't a firemackbrown.com site is there?
Kurt Bohls has an article about the toughest current jobs in college sports. He has Kentucky basketball #1 and Texas football #10 and includes a decent synopsis for why they are where they are. Brown has been successful enough to avoid overwhelming pressure to change much less be on the hotseat. Even though OU has more conference titles, their current BCS losing streak and what will hopefully be a continuing and long string of losses to us, has him closer to the hot seat than Mack.
I think Kentucky really is potentially a more difficult job since their prestige drops a little every year non-basketball hotbed schools like Texas, Florida, and Ohio State build top-10 programs. Kentucky doesn’t produce in-state recruits at a high number and street agents and runners now funnel kids all over the place looking for their next payday. I think Kentucky’s fans are going to be disappointed for quite some time even if Calipari and Wes continue to buy up top recruits. Winning the NCAA tournament is one of the hardest things in sports and winning it multiple times is just that much more difficult in these times of one-and-done recruits and the fact that basketball is no longer just regionally popular.
by Rickyspub on Apr 1, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you misunderstood some things
I wasn’t saying Calipari should not go just because Memphis is better now. I was doing more of “brainstorming” the reasons why or why not he should go. If he wants to go somewhere where there’s great tradition and build it back up, then sure, go ahead. If he wants to have another chance to win the national title in the immediate future (like next year), it’s probably better to stay in the short-term. It’s pretty much what kind of challenge he wants. I’m actually expecting he will build up Kentucky basketball in a short time, although his first one or two years may not yield the grand results he could get at Memphis.
As far as Kentucky, while I agree there are unreasonable Texas fans, I don’t think it was on the level of Kentucky. People get mad at Mack for not winning the big prizes (or used to get mad at him) because he was fielding teams capable of doing so. For Kentucky, I would say they didn’t have the players to go deep in the tournament, so expecting that would be very unreasonable. Tubby Smith got chewed up and spit out, and while he certainly should have recruited better, it’s not like he’s an awful coach. As Rickyspub says, Mack Brown has never been in any real danger of being fired. Never. That’s a far cry from what has happened in Kentucky. Thus, it’s NOT on par. Furthermore, Texas is a more natural place to recruit football talent than Kentucky is for basketball talent, as Kentucky has to do more recruiting nationally while Texas can pick and choose at home. Of course, since Calipari has proven to be a good recruiter, this may not matter much, but as for the job itself it does give it more difficulty.
Lastly, I did not deny that Kentucky is a great prestige job. Of course it is. That doesn’t make it “enviable.” After all, being the Dallas Cowboy head coach is very prestigious, but it comes with a mountain of baggage (not to mention Jerry Jones), and some will say that makes it unenviable. But for those select few who are up for the challenge, then sure, go for it. Rick Barnes didn’t want the Kentucky job and elected to stay at Texas, since he already had a good thing and didn’t want to deal with all the things that would come with going to UK. Calipari seems more savvy than Gillespie, so I expect to him to handle the fans better and have more success, but time will tell if he made the right decision to leave Memphis. After all, Pitino took one of the great prestige jobs in the NBA, coaching the Celtics, and it turned out he should have stayed put at Kentucky.
by TheElusiveShadow on Apr 1, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we're saying the same things
1. I believe at one point there was a firemackbrown.com website, and I’m sure someone with better knowledge of Google Cache can validate this.
2. I don’t think the difference between #1 and #10 toughest jobs in college sports is that significant. That’s like saying that historically, USC has been the #1 football team of all time, while Texas is #10. USC may have the slight edge, but Texas is pretty damn good too. Likewise, the Kentucky job may have more pressure, but Texas football ain’t no walk in the park. I don’t think that the Cowboy job is an apt comparison, as you have the potential to achieve similar success at any of the head coaching jobs in the NFL. There is relatively little to differentiate trying to win at Dallas as opposed to say, Buffalo. That is not so in college sports. While there are exceptions to the rule every so often (see Calipari at Memphis), it is generally much easier to win the biggest prizes at the traditional schools like Kentucky.
3. I don’t think regional recruits is as relevant a factor in college basketball as it is in college football. For example, check out Texas’ latest class: Bradley from NV, Hamilton from CA, Williams from TX. In fact, Shawn Williams is only the 6th highest ranked Texan on the Rivals Top 100. While “in state” may help pluck a recruit from your backyard (see AJ Abrams going to Texas), it’s not an end-all, be-all in recruiting. On the contrary, it’s far more important to have someone interested in recruiting nationally and enthusiastically (see Rick Barnes or John Calipari) rather than someone who isn’t (see Tubby Smith).
4. I think the Mack v. Tubby firing issue is skewed. Mack came on board after a down period in Texas football. The peak of his “hot seat-ness” (if I can make up a word) came during the early 2000’s when he had established Texas as a very good football program that couldn’t get over the OU/BCS hump. He quelled those fears with the VY years. Tubby, on the other hand, was coming off a red hot Kentucky program under Rick Pitino, and Tubby quickly established expectations by winning the National Championship game in ‘98. However, the perception was that he had done so with Pitino’s players, and Tubby subsequent underachieved (by UK standards) for 10 straight years after that (including 2 high profile #1 seed flameouts). Imagine Texas doing moderately well until 2015, but its best success was losing a few BCS games and never making the Championship game. Then you’ll see how Kentucky fans feel.
5. Finally, Kentucky is a full-time job; it involves much more than on the court results. Again, we see this with Mack all the time; one of the things we love about him is he comes off as a good ol’ boy Texas politician. He charms the crowd. This is something that Tubby and Gillispie failed at spectacularly. When you’re the highest profile person in the state of Kentucky, you better act like it.
All in all, I have no doubt that being the Kentucky basketball coach is filled one of the most stressful jobs in sports. But to actively wonder why someone like Calipari would want to give up everything he has to take it doesn’t make sense to me. It’s one of the most prestigious jobs as well, and one of the highest-rewarding. Again, like all jobs, it’s not for everybody, but can you imagine the reaction we would have when the Texas job opens up and some high-profile job says “thanks, but no thanks.”
by jc25 on Apr 2, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t really commenting about Calipari more just about your perception that the Texas job is currently as high pressured as Kentucky and that Kentucky fans’ perceptions might somehow be justified. I think Calipari was smart to take the job. He will have even more room to operate his shady recruiting, but with the added bonus of actually getting some real talent without having to rely on the World Wide Wes’s of the world. I wonder if he will have as much room to operate his shady recruiting at Kentucky considering how quick his SEC competition can be on ratting out their neighbors.
I wasn’t suggesting that the Texas job isn’t high pressured, but in the current situation with a long-time successful coach the job isn’t as hard as it was several years ago and certainly doesn’t equate with the head coaching gig for Kentucky basketball. Now the pressure will jump immensely if Mack leaves with the program in its current state and his successor will have to work his ass for the first 5 years just to make the next 5 years somewhat livable.
I do think Kentucky’s situation has changed over the past 20 years much like it has for Nebraska in football and that the expectations of the fans are not reasonable. While basketball recruiting has always had wider flung recruiting than football there was a time when just a few programs dominated recruiting. Now there are so many great players coming from greater geographically diverse regions that winning it all is just that much more difficult. Its especially so when you add to it the number of schools now investing heavily in basketball. Kentucky still has deep pockets but schools like Texas, Florida, LSU, USC and Ohio State can spend just as much while also maintaining top-level football programs. Basketball is now much more like football and winning multiple titles over a 10 year span is not a realistic expectation.
by Rickyspub on Apr 2, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mack and GD???
OK, so are you trying to stir the pot?? Desperate to heat up the off-season with an old argument??
You could have said many things, such as “Mack and the team … ", "Mack and his coaching staff … ,” or even just “Mack.” But noooooo, you had to bring up GD and that freakin’ (to use your word) bubble screen.
Argh, now my blood pressure is up again. ; )
Watch out, I bite.
by EddieTheAlbinoSquirrel on Apr 1, 2009 12:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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