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Vince Young Debate

VY conversation

There is a video on ESPN of VY talking about what he said a couple of weeks ago regarding his playing time at Tennessee and his future as a NFL qb.

*maybe it is the beard..but it looks like he put on some weight...

I know we covered this topic couple of weeks ago but, since we are having a slow day/wk, why not talk about it...just for shits and giggles.

Star-divide

I personally think he is doing the right thing by being outspoken about his issue. Throughout his career, there were many nay-sayers questioning his mechanics, heart, and  his potential as a QB. For example,  we all remember the time when people wanted VY to be a WR  instead of a QB (his RS fresh/sophomore season). But he kept working hard and became the best UT player/qb in our generation (although simplified schemes helped). Some might call that being stubborn or selfish, but it all worked out for him at the end.

Now, he is facing a fairly difficult situation. His contract should be up either next season or the season after, and he sees what could happen to good quarterbacks in the league like Leftwich, Culpepper, etc.  (this could be due to "black qb" vias but I dont really want to get into that now). So, in my opinion, VY realizes that he needs to undo the  damage he has done last season and prove his worth in NFL.

He is desperate for an opportunity and, despite of what many people will say, this is worth trying. After all, his numbers and Collins numbers are not too different from each other, although I dont have the statistics to back up this statement.  Realistically, it is very hard to imagine VY beatingout Collins purely through practices and pre-season games. Titans have a strong running game and doesnt require their QB to do much. 

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His passing numbers are slightly worse than Collins'

But you’re right, there’s not much difference. Collins is a decent game-managing QB who is well past his best days, and it is curious that many Titans fans want to put the label “great” on him. “Good” is even pushing it.

The problem I have with Vince talking is twofold: 1) He said he wasn’t going to and 2) He’s just bad with words. He said he knew he couldn’t win with the media (he’s right) and spoke anyway, and the media predictably tried to twist his other interview into him demanding a trade. Obviously, to anyone who actually bothered to listen to the interview closely, he said no such thing, which he clarifies in this interview. It’s certainly not his fault there are people in the media who apparently despise him and that the slow offseason news leads the sensationalist folks at SI or ESPN to jump all over little tidbits, but either he needs to get a coach for these things or he needs to avoid them right now. He’s not helping himself.

That being said, the interview above is much better, but even then, don’t be surprised if people try to use this against him too.

What’s most bothersome to me is that even Titans fans seem to be pretending that he straight lost his job to Collins rather than via injury. We have no body of work to judge Vince on for his third season, yet people are saying that his third season was a complete failure. In that regard, I hope he backs up his claims and he proves all these people wrong. Nobody doubts his talent. What people are doubting is his ability to adapt and his heart. However, the way he needs to prove it is on the field, every single day in practice. Fisher can be loyal to a fault, but if VY is so obviously better than Collins every single week, he cannot justify starting Kerry over him.

by TheElusiveShadow on Jun 11, 2009 2:41 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Fisher is so loyal that he followed the 'can't lose your spot due to injury'...oh wait, no he didn't!

Fisher got lucky last year with the win total his team had. The stars and schedule aligned for them and Collins was the main beneficiary. In the playoffs Collins had no ability to answer the call and they lost to the team they most resembled in Baltimore. Vince is the type of athlete that could have won them that game. Collins did almost everything right as a caretaker QB, but he just wasn’t going to get them into the endzone against a defense that ate up the fact the offense had only one real playmaker.

I don’t think Vince will ever be the type of QB that puts up robo-QB ratings, but the Titans are the kind of team that he could lead to greater things if given the chance. Fisher threw Vince under the bus and maybe Vince deserved it after the drama he caused post-injury, but the team was really narrowing its options in the playoffs by having Collins at the helm.

by Rickyspub on Jun 11, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

don't think so
Fisher got lucky last year with the win total his team had. The stars and schedule aligned for them and Collins was the main beneficiary.

Fisher has led the Titans to the Super Bowl before, tore them down, and then rebuilt them into the team that almost made another Super Bowl run last season. He isn’t “lucky”, he is just a damn good coach, one of the best in the NFL.

by Beergut on Jun 13, 2009 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did I specifically say he was a bad coach?

I don’t remember all the specifics of their season but I do remember them getting ‘lucky’ in beating Baltimore earlier in the year and a close game at Chicago, plus they beat Pittsburgh at the end of the season after the Steelers clinched their division. I have to figure there was at least one or two other games that were close and could have swung either way. Would Collins have gotten the amount of publicity he did if they didn’t have the long win streak to begin the season and they went 11-5 instead of 13-3? I thought their playoff performance proved their need for another playmaker on offense.

If you want to leave luck out of the equation then go ahead, but the fact that there aren’t many sports book millionaires suggests that luck has a way of destroying the best laid plans. Fisher certainly has proven himself to be a good coach, but I find it ironic he got beat because of the conservative nature of his offense while leaving one of his only two real athletic weapons on the bench.

by Rickyspub on Jun 15, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

See I am not sure he will even be given an opportunity to compete

Titans had the best record in NFL last year (13-3) and it is very rare to see teams making dramatic changes after such a successful season, especially at quarterback.

In addition, Fisher is a very conservative coach who has the mindset of “if it aint broke why fix it”
This guy doesnt care for Vince’s career or future. Fisher is all about status quo.

It is easy to say that VY should keep his mouth shut and stop giving media to yap away, but if your career and future is on the line and your time is ticking, can you really be that patient? This has been a risky move by him but I think it is worth a risk. It is DEFINITELY better than riding bench and waiting for Collins to get hurt.

COACH BOOM BABY!!

by hookemkp on Jun 11, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think I have the ability to be objective about Vince

so here’s some nonsense.

Vince’s speaking out is probably not that much of an issue for people involved in the NFL. I’d bet that the media’s play w/ his interview is for fans & the public in general, & that those who are a part of the NFL, if they care at all, are probably thinking more along the lines of, “Man! That dude’s got to stay out of the media. All they do is play with him.” Anybody who’s asked that line of questioning & doesn’t respond w/ an expression of a desire to not be a career backup is pretty much done. This is just another part of sports reporting’s growing gossip column.

My fear for Vince is based in fear. Coaches’ fear. Their fear for their job. If Vince can’t regain the starting spot in Tennessee & ends up getting cut, I really worry about his career. Somebody would pick him up as a backup, I’m sure, but I think he’d essentially have to luck into a good enough situation (possibly through injury) to ever re-emerge. Coaches, it seems to me, in the NFL are much more oriented toward finding players that suit their scheme than getting the most out of the players they have or that may be available to them, & I don’t think Vince has proven himself to be anybody’s prototype. The lifespan of the NFL coach has been reduced to a point that I believe many of them get conservative, in many ways, to a point of almost having blinders. If you don’t fit the model they have in their head about what they want done w/ their team, or if you don’t at least fill an immediate need, then they’re probably not going to change their mind about how they would like things run because they don’t want to get fired for what the result is on the field while trying to work w/ a new idea or player. Who wants to get fired for a product that was never their true intention? Vince’s decision making & ability to make the correct throws obviously needs to be proven better, I just worry that he may never be given the same opportunity he’s presented w/ in Tennessee. Collins is nearly 40, & there are no other alternatives to this point. Just keep working Vince. My bet is that he still ends up the starter there. McNair developed w/ Fisher as head coach. So can Vince.

by hungry on Jun 11, 2009 4:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Just now on 1300 TheZone.....

…….they said Vince had said in an interview (I just missed it being played) that (paraphrasing) he hadn’t even been told what it would take to win the starting job. As the guys on TheZone said, how about play better than Kerry Collins.

If he wants to play, then he better play better football. Losing 30lbs wouldn’t hurt his play either.

--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---

by HornChamps on Jun 11, 2009 6:24 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Interesting comment on losing 30 lbs...

Wonder if he beefed up, either believing himself or coaches/advisors that he needed the extra weight to be more “durable”? Just a thought…

by LeftHandedTexan on Jun 15, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Vince-ability...

First of all, Vince needs to man up and try & recover all of the positive PR from season #1 that he lost in season #2. If that means he has to do it from the sidelines, then fine. Be the the #1 fan on his own team. Based on some of his actions this past offseason, he is walking a fine line between being a superstar or being another athlete on the brink.

Second, hopefully with some of the draft moves the Titans made this year including some offseason FA grabs, the WR corp may be at it’s best since Vince arrived. The Titans have focused on RBs it seems like every year except this one. The better Vince’s throwing options are, the better he will be. Collins did well because he is a safe thrower with no deep ability. All he had to was be Trent Dilfer’s uncle and hand off most of the time while the RBs and the Defense did the work. That is clearly not Vince’s style.

Third, I pray that if Vince can be a man and bide his remaining time with the Titans after this season and next, he can get traded or sign with a team that definitely allows Vince to be Vince. There are quite a few quarterbacks that need a stint with a second team before they hit their success.

Finally, while I think he was a great college quarterback, I think it is fair to say the jury is still out on Vince in the NFL. However, I also believe that Vince does not have all of the tools available to him and his style (which is what the Titans drafted) that give him a fair shot at being successful. They want someone to throw 10 yards once every 8 plays and hand off all of the other times, then they shouldn’t have drafted Vince…

Hook ’em!

by Robertpz on Jun 11, 2009 8:20 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

if i were Fisher...

maybe VY isnt exactly what ya want in a NFL QB….

but, wouldnt ya have a special package in your offense just for him. maybe a wildcat type-3 play- “check with me” type package, with maybe a give, a keeper, and a PA pass…

purely philosophical, i think Mack should dedicate 1 GA coach to the 3rd team offense. give them a 3 play package and have them practice it constantly, with great repitition, over and over, repeatedly, again and again, practice after practice, day after day, same 3 plays over and again, repeated constantly,…{{{maybe instead of redshirting, which we’ve come to realize scares recruits off, youd have a freshman offense that knows these 3 plays so well, and are so polished that they could come in for one series each half and give defenses yet another thing to think about}}}}

look up -- get up -- dont ever give up

by tex806 on Jun 12, 2009 3:17 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Blue team

UNC used to do this in basketball. The guys at the end of the bench were dubbed the “Blue Team” and when the starters needed a rest, they’d go in and play a frenzied full-court press. The key is to have the subs run something totally different from the starters, forcing the opponent to spend extra prep time. A-11 anyone?

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.

by Caradoc on Jun 12, 2009 5:07 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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