Torrea Peterson Commits to OU
The Sooners nabbed their second defensive tackle commitment for the class of 2010 on Thursday night when San Antonio East Central defensive tackle Torrea Peterson announced his commitment to OU over a plethora of other high profile offers.
This was our lowest ranked offered prospect... many thought he'd suck up a scholarship that could go to a better player when our scholarships were tighter (ie before the two decommits). This saves Texas a bit and now we only have offers out to high quality players. Who are they all again?
Matthews, Hicks, Jeffcoat, Nelson, Cobbs, D. White, Seastrunk, Franklin... anyone I miss?
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I would’ve been happy to have him, but it does sort of force the staff’s hand a little, I guess. Whether that’s a good or bad thing is up for discussion.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 26, 2009 9:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
would you take him over any of the other potential prospects? we have 3 DTs already committed this year, 3*, 4*, 5*, our lowest rated is still rated higher than Peterson… he wasn’t really a need iin my opinion and would rather have any other one of the prospects on our radar..
by Displaced Longhorn on Jun 26, 2009 9:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure what rankings you’re using, but Rivals has Peterson higher than Cotton, so if that’s what matters to you…
by burntorangehorn on Jun 27, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LSR has cotton higher, which is what I was going on. i’m fine with cotton and fine without peterson, not a huge loss/trade.
by Displaced Longhorn on Jun 27, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would normally agree but...
We haven’t been too lucky in getting our DTs on the field the past couple of years! I was more than willing to pass on Peterson but if Howell doesn’t make it in the classroom and someone else gets a career ending injury we could still be short on DTs for a couple of more years. While I would hate to lose one of the better players we are still chasing because of lack of schollies, at this point with Dixon and Apo decommitted there was probably room for Peterson and whatever subset of the top guys that end up committing.
by Rickyspub on Jun 29, 2009 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No offense.....
….but Bob Stoops and Jackie Shipp have produced a superior “eye” for talent at the DT spot. Two guys who have my confidence tell me, with the exception of Taylor Bible, we are missing the boat.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jun 27, 2009 10:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, but....
I think Coach Boom will be able to narrow that talent producing gap rather quickly. Plus, it’s not like Texas hasn’t produced its share of tackles in the past decade. All you have to do is take a look at NFL rosters to note we’ve been holding our own in that department.
by UT Fanatic on Jun 27, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By last count Mike Tolleson has coached
Frank Okam, Derek Lokey, Rod Wright, Shaun Rodgers, Casey Hampton, Marcus Tubbs, and Roy Miller. Not to mention Anthony McFarland and Chuck Wiley at LSU. Could we do better? Sure, but I’ll take that line up against the Dusty Dvoracek, McCoy and Tommie Harris.
Rather than saying that OU has a history of recruiting better talent at the DT spot, the better argument may be that OU makes better use of the talent they recruit.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Jun 27, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So why is it.....
……we sit here with a converted DE and a marginal at DT?
Go ahead and add DeMarcus Granger, C.J. Ah You, Stacey McGee, Adrian Taylor and JaMarcus McFarland.
BTW, wasn’t Roy Miller first identified by OU? Didn’t he commit to OU prior to switching his commitment to Texas? I guess they have a good eye.
Other than 3* TE Tubbs, those Texas DTs were concensus studs and you know it. We didn’t so much have “the eye” for those guys as we sent them an invitation.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jun 28, 2009 1:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now you’re mixing arguments. UT went hard for McFarland, and didn’t get him. Doesn’t look like that “eye” was any different in that case, because both schools pursued him.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 28, 2009 1:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
granger was a 5* and #1 DT in nation, CJ was a 4* DE, Stacey 4*, Taylor 3*, McFarland 5*…
taylor is the only 3* in there that could be used considered as evidence of “OU’s eye for talent, that no one else obviously saw”…
by Displaced Longhorn on Jun 28, 2009 2:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You obviously....
…..place way too much confidence in the value of the ratings of Rivals.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jun 28, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
jesus, do you even follow what is being argued? you state that OU has a “superior eye” for DTs (finding DTs that would be great, but aren’t yet tthere), and that Texas’ good DTs were already good DTs and acknowledged as such by others and that Texas’ simply recruited those that were already known to be good. you then give a list of good DTs that OU’s coached… and I respond by pointing out that all of those players, save one, were highly rated coming out of highschool and therefore did not take some “special superior eye” to find. regardless of whether rivals is right, or wrong, rivals possessed the same “superior eye” you purport OU has that Texas does not.
and yes, i will still take every other player left on the board over torrea peterson, regardless of whether OU has a “superior eye” for DT talent.
by Displaced Longhorn on Jun 28, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
The Answer for the current state of DT's is pretty simple
Off-field transgressions for Andre Jones and a medical condition for J. Hump.
Now, this doesn’t completely free all guilt from the coaching staff for the current state of the DT position because there have also been some swings and misses (Higgins, Wilcoxin)
But, to sit here and say that the DT position has been a persistent problem throughout the recent history of Texas football seems a bit silly to me. One would need only to look at the rushing statistics that Texas defenses have allowed to see how effective the DT’s have been.
This year’s DT situation looks shaky, no doubt, but I’m willing to see what happens on the field before I condemn the position and additionally I, for one, think the talent coming in at the position is extremely promising.
by andmyster on Jun 28, 2009 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yet another hint.
Andre Jones and Jarvis Humphrey never played a down for UT. We don’t know what they would or would not have done for our defense. Alexander and Wilcoxon have played for Texas and …… well we both know.
Hey, Kheeston Randall was in the same recruiting class as Humphrey and has played in 8 games, perhaps he is evidence of our “eye.”
Pushing Lamaar Houston into the middle, the additional weight, slight loss in speed/quickness might very well cost him serious money in the ’09 draft.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jun 28, 2009 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
to your first statement...
Andre Jones and Jarvis Humphrey never played a down for UT
valid point except for this statement by you earlier
Go ahead and add DeMarcus Granger, C.J. Ah You, Stacey McGee, Adrian Taylor and JaMarcus McFarland.
Contradiction?
by vy til i die on Jun 29, 2009 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Not in the least.
Do you understand the difference between on campus/registered, ready to play and no longer in school?
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jun 29, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure most do, but what’s that have to do with a supposedly-superior “eye” for talent?
by burntorangehorn on Jun 29, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mine...
was in response to vy.
Try to keep up.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jul 1, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now you’re changing the discussion entirely. The topic was the defensive tackles, and now you’re claiming to be talking about VY?
The point is that McFarland hasn’t played a down of football for OU yet, and is in no way indicative of OU’s “eye,” and therefore no more valid a point of evidence than Andre Jones or Jarvis Humphrey.
And as for your sad attempt at condescension, it’s unnecessary and pathetic.
by burntorangehorn on Jul 1, 2009 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont have a dog
in this fight discussion, but I think he was talking about “vy til i die” not Saint Vince.
by NeTexHorn on Jul 1, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah. A “mind your own business” post by HC.
by burntorangehorn on Jul 1, 2009 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
do i really need to correct you again about whats being argued?
you state that these are the players that are evidence of OU’s “superior eye” of talent “DeMarcus Granger, C.J. Ah You, Stacey McGee, Adrian Taylor and JaMarcus McFarland.”
andmyster says “the problem is that two of our top DTs are MIA, andre jones and j. humphrey”
you state “yeah, but those two never played a down for texas… we don’t know how good they would have been”
vy till i die states "isn’t that a contradiction, andmyster can’t use andre jones and j humphrey as evidence of quality DTs because they never played for Texas… yet you [hornchamps] use jamarcus mcfarland as evidence of OU’s “superior eye”?
you[HC] then ask an arbitrary question that does nothing to refute the validity of vy till i die’s observation.
why do you have to act like such a fucking douchebag? especially because you’re doing such a poor job of defending your stance, while claiming to use “a good number of facts” and claiming everyone else’s beliefs are just opinion.
by Displaced Longhorn on Jul 1, 2009 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s not all about the “eye.” There’s also scheme, which has been somewhat wanting the past five years, and stability at DC, which has been extremely wanting.
And I’m not sure how the guys you mentioned have produced an eye. Did their reproductive efforts somehow result in a cyclops?
by burntorangehorn on Jun 27, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ou
has had nothing but NFL busts in the Stopps era.
by Longhorns84 on Jun 27, 2009 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a hint for you.
We’re discussing college football. What they do or don’t do after their eligibility is exhausted isn’t relevant.
What is relevant is that they helped their teams win SIX Conf.Championships.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jun 28, 2009 1:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Number of conference championships won is a direct result of having a better eye for talent at the DT position. You are just changing your argument as you go. If you’re going to talk about ability to scout talent at a given position, your recruits’ success in the NFL is a better indicator of that than conference titles.
by bassale47 on Jun 28, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SUCCESS is a better indicator.
They have 6 and we have 1.
The schools don’t receive residuals from their players’ NFL contracts.
They do receive benefit from the players’ success on the field and their ability to bring home the hardware.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jun 28, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not usually one to back up HC on matters relating to CFB, but he’s right: NFL success is irrelevant. This is college football. In college football, Tom Brady was marginally above average, and Tommie Frazier was all-planet.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 28, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there's more value in the NFL metric than is being suggested, if used reasonably
The NFL is largely a different game than college football, but I think we can all agree that those who will become NFL defensive linemen are almost by definition the most physically gifted players in the college game. Whether a player succeeds or fails at the next level is irrelevant for evaluation of college talent, but recognizing that a player had the physical ability to “stick” has some value.
HC seems to have run his logical train off the tracks and into a crowd of pedestrians on the separate issue of whether UT maximizes the talent it recruits at the position. This doesn’t have a thing to do with a perceived “eye” for scouting talent because the physical talent OU recruits appears to be inferior. However, OU does a remarkably good job of putting players with lesser physical skills – whether they’re overachieving defensive lineman or 4.8 safeties – into a position to maximize their contributions.
/Full disclosure, I’m suspicious that Madden would have turned Tommie Harris into a 330lb space eater if came to UT.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Jun 28, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
HC isn't arguing....
he is instigating. There is a difference. He is poking you with one and two sentence comments that are forcing you to write multi-paragraph and logical responses.
Just let him be the bitter old codger that he is and ignore him.
"A lot of people look for the easy way to do anything, in swimming there is no easy way." - Eddie Reese
P.S. 45-35
by SwimTexas on Jun 28, 2009 4:48 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Actually......
….I substantiate my position with a good number of facts. You and other just hate to see reality down there in black and white. The others use their personal opinion as a means of refuting the facts. When you win 6 Conf.Championships in 10 seasons, your defense (including the DTs) are playing some darn good football. Then there is the case of 1 Conf.Championship in 11 seasons………
No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Thanks for your contribution.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jun 29, 2009 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
conference titles can not be used as “evidence” that OU has a “superior eye” for spotting the talent in DTs that other’s do not see… by the same poor, and failed logic…. i can state that Texas has the “more consistent eye” for spotting talent in DTs as evidence by their streak of 11ty 10 win seasons.
your logic is flawed, your examples contradict the point you feebly attempt to make, and you have yet to substantiate your position with “a good number of facts”.
by Displaced Longhorn on Jun 29, 2009 3:17 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
HC doesn't have a DT recruiting problem, he has a Mack Brown problem...
Thought I would be hard pressed to think he was singing the praises of Mackovic or McWilliams. Of course he was probably agitating for Akers to be fired as well. He must have been raised in a household that had hagiographies to Darrell Royal quoted on a daily basis.
Its a shame that there are ‘fans’ out there that seem to cheer for the other teams more than they do for the team for which they are supposedly a fan. HC should just stop being a Texas fan and go cheer for OU since he loves Stoops, his recruiting, and his scheduling so much.
by Rickyspub on Jun 29, 2009 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I recognize that HC isn’t rooting for the Sooners or anything, but rather saying that UT needs to do better and that Mack Brown & Co. are the problem. That’s not being a fan of the other team. I’ve definitely had lots of fellow Chiefs fans telling me I should go cheer for other teams because of how critical I have been of KC since the end of the Schottenheimer era, but my criticism in each case has been fully justified. In HC’s case, I don’t think his criticism is generally justified. He makes some valid points from time to time, and of course there’s some room for improvement in Texas football, but constantly calling for the head of the driver of UT’s most successful stretch of football ever is kind of ridiculous.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 29, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that was obvious...this is HC we are talking about...
Its one thing to descend upon someone who says one critical thing about Brown or the program and then has people attack them for being a hater. Its entirely another thing when the poster has shown himself to be on one-track like HC is in his constant bashing of Mack Brown. If Mack had a record like McWilliams or Mackovich, there would be many more of us on the same bandwagon, but as you say ‘constantly calling for the head of the driver of UT’s most successful stretch of football ever is kind of ridiculous.’
by Rickyspub on Jun 29, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rickyspub is just....
….plain ignorant. “BooHoo, someone is criticizing my coach, so I’ll sling names and mud. Then due to my obvious arrogance, I’ll tell him to start cheering for another football team.” No wonder so many CFB fans around the country refer to Texas fans as some of the country’s most arrogant. He’ll do poorly in his job. Problem solving is just too frustrating for the immature.
How frustrating it must be for the apologist to know I was a big Fred Akers fan and continue to keep in contact with Fred.
Thankfully, Muschamp is a hands-on recruiter and is already providing meaningful input into future scheduling and it doesn’t involve 95% patsies.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jun 29, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are the one doing the crying...
You cry about how awful we are and how great Stoops is, which is why I was sarcastically suggesting you might just as well go cheer for Stoops if you are so enamored of him. I am more than willing to be critical of Mack, but your take is generally so devoid of anything other than vitrol and hyperbole, it makes taking the defense all the easier just for the sake of moderation. You tend to do most of the crying and generally what you cry about has little weight in the rest of the world. I just enjoy watching you get enraged as your petty little arguments are shown to be just that.
Actually, your praise of Akers makes your current position all the more idiotic since from all I have heard about his firing suggests he was run out of town because some people didn’t think he won enough trophies. Be careful what you wish for…your predecessors ran off Akers and we got stuck with McWilliams and Mackovic. Don’t think that Muschamp is any guarantee of future success, though the fact that Mack was quick to make him his heir speaks more highly of Muschamp than anything that you say.
by Rickyspub on Jun 29, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thankfully, Muschamp is a hands-on recruiter and is already providing meaningful input into future scheduling and it doesn’t involve 95% patsies.
Where do you get your evidence about any of those assertions? Do you have any links for us? If so, I’m genuinely interested to see them.
Also, is it your contention that Mack Brown’s other staff members are not hands-on recruiters?
by burntorangehorn on Jun 29, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I asked the same question before
I would like to see the answer as well. If this is true, I would like to have a word with Dodds.
"From the waist down, Earl Campbell has the biggest legs I have ever seen on a running back." -John Madden
by run Bevo run on Jun 29, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take a shot...
Remember we would have gotten Dre Kirkpatrick and Jarvis Jones if Mack Brown weren’t the coach. Muschamp had those guys in his hands until Mack came over and slapped them away because they were from out-of-state. Muschamp also had McFarland in his hands and Mack slapped that away as well with his comments to JMacs mom! Mack doesn’t want Muschamp to succeed so he is intentionally running off all of Muschamp’s best recruits. We all know Mack is a horrible recruiter because we never recruit any OOC guys and all the best in-state guys (you know, the mythical ones that Rivals doesn’t rank that highly but Stoops finds with his keen eye for talent) go to OU.
by Rickyspub on Jun 29, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many of the guys ....
….you just mentioned received an in-home visit? Oops.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jul 1, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And how many said that an in-home was the reason they chose that school?
You may be right, but barring any evidence to back up your claim, it doesn’t hold any more water than me saying that the reason we didn’t get them was because we wouldn’t pay them or their parents cash or other inducements to commit.
by Rickyspub on Jul 1, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My sarcasm detector is currently in overload.
by burntorangehorn on Jul 1, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you're ......
right – 1 is almost 6.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jun 29, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where’s Big Game Bob’s “eye” when sitting on the business end of yet another BCS bowl loss?
by burntorangehorn on Jun 29, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the tables were reversed he would complaining about how we backed into those 2006 and 2008 titles...
We would have been lucky to have won the Big 12 in 2006 because we only won it when their QB went down to a freak injury and 2008 would have been illegitimate because we only won due to the biases of the media and coaches poll. As his tag line says, ‘All roads to the Big 12 Championship lead through OU/RRS’ and since we would have lost those games in those two years those titles wouldn’t count. That BCS bowl record would be a fire-able offense if ‘Bob Stoops’ was pronounced ‘Mack Brown’.
by Rickyspub on Jun 29, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ifs and buts, candy and nuts....
1 is still not 6.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jul 1, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Curiously
Does OU have better special teams than UT?
"From the waist down, Earl Campbell has the biggest legs I have ever seen on a running back." -John Madden
by run Bevo run on Jul 1, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So assuming you’ve been all-wise and knowing in your criticism of Mack Brown for a very long time, whom would you have chosen to be coach instead, and do you honestly believe that your choice would have accomplished more at UT in the past decade than Mack Brown has?
by burntorangehorn on Jul 1, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Strawman.
I was in agreement with Doug English and Darrell Royal. Hicks and DeLoss wanted and offered Gary Barnett. I’m glad Doug and Coach Royal dug in their heals.
However, I didn’t believe the same AD who had scheduled 35 ranked OOC opponents in the prior 20 seasson would rollover, fully fetal for only 4 ranked OOC opponents in 11 seasons. In Muschamp we trust.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jul 1, 2009 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, you were of coach-critiquing age while DKR and English were coaching?
And what has Muschamp ever done on his own? I like the guy a lot, but he has a long way to go before he’ll come anywhere close to touching Mack’s accomplishments.
By the way, I’m still waiting to hear whom you would’ve selected instead of Mack Brown.
by burntorangehorn on Jul 1, 2009 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This
By the way, I’m still waiting to hear whom you would’ve selected instead of Mack Brown.
Personally, I I would like to know all about…
Muschamp … is already providing meaningful input into future scheduling and it doesn’t involve 95% patsies.
Quotes, links, sources, anything.
"From the waist down, Earl Campbell has the biggest legs I have ever seen on a running back." -John Madden
by run Bevo run on Jul 2, 2009 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You two still have problems reading I guess.
Just a hint for your burnt. Doug English played at Texas. He never coached at Texas. He was drafted in the 2nd round and played 11 seasons for the Detroit Lions.
I always chuckle at the jeolosy of those without sources.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jul 2, 2009 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are the champion
I always chuckle at the jeolosy of those without sources.
Huge accomplishment. You are indeed the winner.
"From the waist down, Earl Campbell has the biggest legs I have ever seen on a running back." -John Madden
by run Bevo run on Jul 2, 2009 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HC you are a bigger fan of your season tickets than you are the 'Horns!
This OOC argument is BS. You may not like Mack’s OOC scheduling but the NCAA forces an extra game on them but won’t allow a playoff, why should Mack schedule several BCS-level teams? Just to give YOU some good entertainment? The current system is as close as college football has had to rules for getting to the MNC and/or the lucrative BCS bowls. The standards are basically 1) be undefeated or have one loss and 2) be in a BCS conference. There are exceptions and years when there are many teams in the mix but when you are a school like Texas if you follow standard 1 you will almost always get a BCS or MNC invite, no matter what sort of OOC schedule you play.
The fact of the matter is Mack plays as rigorous a schedule as any of his predecessors back through Darrell Royal. I laid these facts out to you in our earlier exchange but you won’t get off your hobby horse and see the reality of the situation. Here are the numbers of teams ranked when we played them (bowl games not included):
Darrell Royal (20 years): Conference (25), OOC (14; 11 of them OU), Total (39), Avg/season (1.95)
Fred Akers (10 years): Conference (22), OOC (13; 9 of them OU), Total (35), Avg/season (3.5)
David McWilliams (5 years): Conference (8), OOC (10; 5 of them OU), Total (18), Avg/season (3.6)
John Mackovic (6 years): Conference (7), OOC (14; 4 of them OU), Total (21), Avg/season (3.5)
Mack Brown (11 years): Conference (33; 8 of them OU), OOC (4), Total (37), Avg/season (3.36)
As you can see Mack has shifted the approach because of the strength of the conference. He has played as many games on average against ranked teams as his three predecessors and played a lot more than the great Darrell Royal.
The big thing that skews the OOC numbers for Mack’s predecessors is that yearly game with OU that has shifted to a conference game. You can argue all you want that Mack would drop OU if they weren’t a conference opponent, but you can’t rewrite history so the facts are the facts. And in fact history shows that McWilliams and Mackovic screwed themselves with their heavy non-OU OOC scheduling. They had a combined 4-3-1 record against OU when ranked and a 2-12-1 record against all other ranked OOC opponents. The pitfall for Mack would be the same. There is an advantage to having a singular OOC rival (ala ND and USC), it is a defacto conference game that you prepare and get up for in the same way each year. When you start throwing in the random series against OSU or UCLA or Notre Dame you run a greater risk of having to play a tough opponent when you are still trying out new personnel or even breaking in a new coordinator. The OSU series is a perfect example. We won in ’05 with OSU not having their starting QB available (OSU fans think this was an important fact) and we lost in ’06 because we were breaking in a freshman QB.
Mack has his eye on getting to a BCS/MNC game (I am sure this is what Dodds is pushing for as well) and the ‘rules’ for getting there are about as clear as they have ever been. Mack can’t control the conference schedule and some years the schedule can screw you, like it did last year when we had to face 4 ranked teams in succession, so I understand why he would rather schedule weaker opponents OOC. I think the fact that Mack wants a playoff shows that he wants to compete against the best. If the administrators want to keep adding games in September and at the same time punish teams that play tough games in September while rewarding the teams that don’t, why should he play along just to make your season tickets ‘worth it’?
by Rickyspub on Jul 2, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still kidding yourself, I see.
Mack Brown hasn’t “shifted the approach because of the strength of the conference.” This is just a continuation of his prior approach to OOC scheduling.
Here is a list of every OOC game played during Mack Brown’s final 9 seasons at North Carolina. You won’t find much competition on this list, including 3 Div.1-AA opponents.
VMI
(2)Kentucky
(2)Navy
(3)S.Carolina
Miami,(OH)
UConn
Cincinnati
(2)Army
William & Mary
Furman
(2)Ohio
UTEP
(2)Tulane
(2)TCU
SMU
(2)Syracuse
(2)Louisville
Houston
Indiana
Stanford
Oh, and his AD forced him to play an (8-5)USC team in a PigSkin Classic for the money.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jul 3, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 'AD forced him to play USC'...
I think that says it all. Mack at UNC was probably only charged with getting the alumni to a vacation spot in December and if a money opportunity came up like the PigSkin Classic the AD would trump him. It is obvious Mack didn’t want to spend his career at UNC and losing games to Florida, Notre Dame, or Nebraska wasn’t going to help his resume. I imagine the AD and the alumni didn’t get too bent out of shape because they didn’t get to watch the team get blown out by Florida in September (Florida State was going to go that to them in a few months anyway).
Ultimately, Mack has to play the conference games, he is g*ddamn coach in the Big 12, so right there he is playing a more challenging schedule than any coach outside of the SEC East. If we weren’t in the Big 12 then Dodds would force Mack to play OU every year, unlike your asinine assertion that he would somehow have the power to drop the game.
Until the rules change and the BCS punishes teams for being anything but undefeated, Dodds is going to give Mack some leeway on the non-conf scheduling so long as we are consistently getting to BCS and MNC games. I think Dodds has already accepted the fact that it is easier to get into a BCS game than it is to win the division.
If Mack were such a wuss then why the hell did he take a job in the friggin’ Big 12 South? If he were such a wuss why does he lobby so hard to get us into BCS bowl games rather than laying off so we can play some has-been or never-was in the Holiday bowl? Why does he support a playoff?
by Rickyspub on Jul 3, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fact?
When you win 6 Conf.Championships in 10 seasons, your defense (including the DTs) are playing some darn good football.
Or you’re lucky. Who had the best defense in the Big 12 last year? Yeah, that’s what I thought.
And tell me, how is it a “fact” that multiple conference titles means better DT recruiting/scouting? Am I missing something? That’s not a fact; that’s something you have to try to argue. Which you haven’t done a good job of.
The others use their personal opinion as a means of refuting the facts.
Ahem. Irony.
by TheElusiveShadow on Jun 29, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
If you havent learned by now,
arguing with HC is a fruitless endeavor, unless your favorite fruit is debate.
For some reason he’s just not a fan of Mack. Let’s leave it at that. Otherwise we get 20 posts of condescension that this blog doesnt need.
Damn I hate the offseason.
by the other Andrew on Jul 2, 2009 9:54 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
It makes you bone up on your facts...
Sure, arguing with HC is fruitless, but if you pick those arguments where you can dig in and get facts you sometimes learn something interesting. I found out a lot about OUs DT recruiting not because of anything HC said, but because of the info supplied by other BON’ers refuting his idiocy. I had fun looking at our history against ranked opponents even if HC still holds to the belief that Mack is a wussy because he won’t play 4+ ranked teams in a season (mostly to ensure HC gets some good September games to watch) even though none of his predecessors did. Its the offseason, but what better time to go into the Intertubes to learn more about the program!
by Rickyspub on Jul 2, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hilarious!
In 7 of his 11 seasons at UT, he refused to play ONE ranked OOC opponent.
Why would I ever expect him to play 4 ranked OOC opponents?
In 3 of the 4 seasons when he did play a ranked OOC opponent, the games were scheduled by his predecessor John Mackovic.
Fred Akers – 10 seasons – 9 Top-10 OOC opponents – .90/season
McWilliams – 5 seasons – 5 Top-10 OOC opponents – 1.0/season
Mackovic – 6 seasons – 5 Top-10 OOC opponents – - – .83/season
Mack Brown – 11 seasons – 3 Top-10 OOC opponents – .30/season
Evidence speaks for itself.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jul 3, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You need to update your thinking...
You are still living in the era of two-seasons, the out-of-conference and the in-conference. Big money is to be made by only losing one of your games and getting to a BCS bowl (much more than can be made in a September game, no matter who the opponent is, especially since we would sell it out whether it was Chattanooga or USC). We regularly play 3 or more ranked conference teams a year, so under your preferred scheduling we need to have one assured top 10 OOC game and one other quality BCS conference opponent. Which means in most years we are playing 4 or more ranked teams. I never said OOC opponents, you are the one who is so consumed by our OOC schedule that you could care less that we play in the one of the 2 toughest conferences in college football.
You evidence is still shit because you aren’t taking OU out of the equation. I guarantee you if OU were part of the SWC or we were part of the Big 8 during the Akers, McWilliams, and Mackovic era their numbers would drop down to a similar level to Brown’s. I also like how have you have shifted from Top 25 opponents to Top 10 opponents as if any one can ever reliably schedule a Top 10 team every year unless they have a team like OU as a long-time historical rival.
In fact:
Akers-played #5 Missouri in 1979 and #5 Auburn in 1983-.20/season (Akers won both of these)
McWilliams-#5 Auburn in ’87-.20/season (a loss)
Mackovic-#9 Syracuse in ’92, #6 Syracuse in ’93, #4 Colorado in ’94, and #9 Notre Dame in ’96-.67/season (with only a tie vs. Syracuse in ’93 to show for his efforts)
Mackovic got the closest to being able to schedule a top 10 OOC game every year. How did that turn out for him?
by Rickyspub on Jul 3, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The schedule of champions...
In fact going back through all the BCS champs (and USC in ‘02) the average number of regular season ranked games (not including conf. championships) was 3.58. The teams averaged .83 ranked out-of-conference opponents and 2.75 ranked in-conference opponents. That 3.58 average is eerily similar to Mack’s 3.36 average of ranked regular season opponents in his time in Austin.
LSU in ‘07 played the ’toughest’ schedule facing 6 opponents (1 OOC) who were ranked at the time they faced them (and they were the only team to play more than 4 ranked opponents during the regular season). USC’s two ‘championships’ only had them face 2 ranked opponents each of those seasons (only 1 of the 4 was OOC). The only two BCS champs to play 2 ranked OOC opponents were FSU in ’99 (4 total ranked teams) and Miami in ’01 (3 total).
So LSU is the only one of the 12 teams here to follow the schedule you would like to see us play and they were a controversial pick with the 2 losses. USC certainly has had no issues claiming its 2004 title (and claims of being the best team ever) even though they played what amounts to a cupcake schedule and they even got the AP to agree that their ‘wimpy’ 2002 schedule warranted them to be voted AP champions.
I’ve always agreed that this year’s OOC schedule stinks (but I don’t think it would be improved by having Ohio State or USC on it in September, I’d have taken the game with Arkansas). But I think we will likely have to face at least 4 ranked teams during the regular season (OU, OSU are certainties but Tech might be ranked and Missouri or Kansas could be ranked when we play them, and Colorado might even be ranked if they beat WV), which would put us above par for the champions that have preceded us.
by Rickyspub on Jul 3, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for proving my point.
I don’t remove OU because you don’t remove a team that was scheduled. To claim a new HC couldn’t have removed them from the OOC is just ignorance. It was done all the time around the country.
Pprior to UT going to Columbus in 2005 Mack Brown said, “We (current Texas administration) didn’t schedule this game and we don’t want this game. This was done 10 years ago and if we could get out of it, we would.”
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jul 9, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you really think Mack could remove OU from the schedule?
Really, or do you just enjoy making inane internet arguments?
by Wells on Jul 9, 2009 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point is that Mack wouldn't have a chance to make that decision...
If OU weren’t in the conference, Mack could say he wanted to drop OU and could even propose it to the AD. He would be escorted kindly out of the AD’s office with a copy of the schedule in perpetuity with OU the only scheduled team listed for each year. HC can argue otherwise all he wants, but since we are talking about a hypothetical it doesn’t really matter. HC won’t, of course, tackle the issue of our overall schedule. He doesn’t care about the fact that we play as tough a schedule as we have historically and this schedule profiles exactly with that of the other BCS champs. HC wants to watch ‘good’ games in September and the rest of the season be damned.
by Rickyspub on Jul 13, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Wells, did you bother....
…to read Rickyspub’s non-stop blather? Did your rocket science vision notice the “OOC?” Of course not. You just shot your keyboard off without any information on the subject.
Ricky seems to think when comparing OOC schedules, we should majically backout the OU games. Poof….they majically disappeared….games never played!
You do understand the OU games are conference games don’t you? They obviously can’t be removed from the schedule. Though I do remember Mack promoting the idea of splitting the Big-XII East/West, so he could avoid playing OU every season.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jul 9, 2009 6:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I meant in a hypothetical situation where OU is not in our conference
but thanks for the snarky reply without actually answering the question.
by Wells on Jul 10, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Snarky reply = your "inane internet arguments"
I see your lack of reading comprehension continues to bother you.
Answering the question = “They obviously can’t be removed from the schedule.”
See you at the La-Monroe game!
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Jul 11, 2009 6:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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