After Shipley, who's #2 at WR?
by owenh on Jul 20, 2009 7:08 PM CDT
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PrintEver since that November night when Malcolm Williams brought Texas to the brink of an undefeated season with two phenomenal touchdown grabs, the Horns fanbase has been enamored with his potential. The next Roy Williams! The deep threat we've been looking for!
The media guides are in love with him and crown him as a playmaker on the precipice of greatness:
"Malcolm Williams already showed what he could do with a whale of a performance in the loss to Texas Tech"-CFN
"Williams could pile up huge numbers if he keeps his head in the game"-Gatorsports
"Malcolm Williams is still a physical freak"-Bleacher Report
All the previews point to number 9 being the new star. I see it differently. Due to William's skill set within our offense I don't see him putting up these huge stats. I find it more likely Brandon Collins AND James Kirkendall out-yard Williams.
This is not to say Williams isn't the best prospect at the next level, just that this offense focuses on midrange passing. If Williams' role is going deep, he's not going to get a whole lot of looks. Brandon Collins and Kirkendal, and Shipley of course stand to rack up the stats and praise. I know they will get the ball. But will Williams?
I just see his role being too small within the workings of the current scheme to justify all the hype.
Who's the most valuable #2 receiver?
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Agreed
Williams is a mega threat. But because he figures to be the DEEP threat, he’ll draw the top defender, the double coverage. Fine. Leaves that much more roam room for the rest, and (hopefully) fewer defenders. There’s also Williams’ inconsistency (which I take to mean drops and blocking deficiencies).
But in my dreams . . . I see Malc and Hales out wide with two of the other 3 WRs also on the field. Colt’s grin will stretch sideline to sideline.
When you hear about inconsistency
I think they are talking about running crisp routes, and even running the right routes.
I can’t recall ever seeing him drop a pass in a game.
I know it isn’t our offense and I know it will never happen, but I’d love to see us go Dez Bryan with him a few times a game.
Right on
Williams will be lethal, but we’ll use him just enough to stretch the field. Collins and Kirkendoll will see most of the action after Shipley.
B. Collins
I was looking at some highlights from the Missouri game (I think), and he was looking pretty impressive. Either way, it’ll be difficult to replace Quan, but someone HAS to step up.
Collins
Collins was great against a&m too. And he’s the only WR we have that I’ve ever seen have success with the WR screen. I think he’s going to replace Quan as much as you could expect.
'Til Gabriel blows his horn...
Not to mention Ohio State, where his catch before Quan's set up the game winning TD
by pleaseplaykindle on Jul 20, 2009 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions
kirkendoll was the guy who grabbed the challenged 1st down
but Collins had the penultimate reception before the “all alone, touchdown text-is!”. Remember he cramped up right before the play and had to limp into position.
Remember
Don’t forget that one thing Texas tried to do with Roy Williams is hit him on short slants and screens and let him try to use his speed to break a tackle/ make a guy miss and take it the distance. That’s not to say that Macolm Williams = Roy Williams, but I think he can be used in a similar way. Also, one can still be a huge threat and factor without putting up big numbers. (Think a big DT who might not get stats but can clog running lanes, pressure a qb, etc.)
So, I see Williams being the biggest factor of the group, but I also see Collins putting up better numbers than anyone but Shipley.
(btw….just read that Shipley will return punts this year, but probably not kicks on the bevobeat.)
Depends on the criteria for ranking
- in production – Collins
- in talent (assuming we’re giving shipley #1 across the board here) – Williams
- in my heart – Kirkendoll
Our offense
doesn’t really cater to Malcolm Williams’ playmaking abilities…at least yet. Last year, Malcolm was our only potential deep-threat, but still kinda youthful in his other duties as a receiver (blocking, possession-type plays).
Could this be one of the reasons why a receiver with the same skill set as Malcolm (D. White) be hesitant to pull the trigger on his offer? A more “aggressive” offense, such as the one drawn by Kevin Wilson of the dark side, may seem to appeal more to D. White. How Malcolm Williams does in our offense this year may be one of the main things D. White (and his family) will be looking at during the season.
But if Greg Davis recognizes the talent he has (and he usually does), then he’ll draw up a game-plan maximizing our strengths as he did with Roy Williams and Vince Young. Call Greg Davis conservative, but the man knows how to improvise and use the talent that’s available.
all last year I was thinking collins is the most sure handed receiver we have besides Quan… I really think he’ll fill in that void of “throw it somewhere near him and he’ll catch it” that quan will leave.
by Displaced Longhorn on Jul 20, 2009 9:15 PM CDT reply actions
James Kirkendall gets my vote
Though I’m pretty sure he won’t get the reps he deserves.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
What, no Buckner love?
IMHO I see one stand out receiver (Shipley) and 3 to 4 average to above average receivers this year. Each will have his turn, but nothing substantial to leave you wanting more.
One big problem with judging receivers is they have to get the ball
And what typically happens (see McCoy-Quan and McCoy-Roommate) is the QB gets comfortable with 1-2 receivers, and the plays work, and the confidence builds, and the coaches keep calling those plays because they have high percentage chance of working . . . and whoever is not part of that 1 or 2 among WRs becomes a decoy/blocker/third or fourth (depending on TE and RB catching the ball) option.
So if Buckner, or Chiles, or Hales, or even Kirkendoll or Williams, isn’t in the top group, the chance to make plays will be very limited. That goes for practice, too. I think the overall WR skill is excellent with a chance to be outstanding — but some good ones will finish with 5 catches for 39 yards and no scores.
I'd argue Shipley isn't "elite" as far as talent goes
He’s a disciplined player and has a ton of experience. Speed aint that great and he’s not a big guy. He plays his game and does his job well. I think Collins is a really smooth player and can really get the YAC. And like someone mentioned above, very dangerous on screens. kirkendoll looks solid and I remember 3 or 4 crucial 1st downs he picked up. Buckner, still wait and see, Hales ditto.
hey he's good but Shipley isn't going to thrill scouts with his speed sorry
similar to Quan. “ok” speed + undersized
He’s slowed down a bit in the wake of that injury, but I think he can still scoot better than, say, Buckner.
by burntorangehorn on Jul 20, 2009 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions
disagree about speed
Check out the OU touchdown return – Cosby or the other receivers couldn’t do that – only Williams. But I do think Shipley’s best quality is his quickness and double move.
Dumb comment..
Who cares what the NFL scouts think? He out ran OU’s coverage unit.
“Speed ain’t that great and he’s not a big guy”
- Shows you either didn’t pay attention last season or don’t know how football works. Shipley is a top 4 college wide receiver and is going to tear it up again this season. Want to know why? Because he has great hands and runs crisp routes. To say that he’s not elite is just flat out ignoring what he did last season. Yeah, guy who was uncoverable by just about every team we played last year is nothing special right?
Oh and for the record, Shipley is faster than Brandon Collins. Guarantee you Shipley breaks 1200 yards this season.
My adopted son Sergio Kindle does not sleep; he waits.
by mvplonghorns on Jul 21, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
ok ok geez
but if your argument is that he is a crisp route runner and finds open spaces then I dont know what we’re disagreeing about.
We're disagreeing
about him not being an elite talent according to you. When all he did last year was prove that he was an elite college player.
My adopted son Sergio Kindle does not sleep; he waits.
by mvplonghorns on Jul 21, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Shipley has slowed down due to injuries
But before that, he was much faster than people think, and he still has good speed. I have no idea if those injuries will affect him long-term; if he can come back fully healthy this season, he can really showcase his ability to run. He undoubtedly had more speed than Cosby and I’d argue he’s just as fast or faster than most of our receivers right now.
by TheElusiveShadow on Jul 21, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Not because of injuries...
He’s slowed down because he is 76 years old and has to run with a cane.
"From the waist down, Earl Campbell has the biggest legs I have ever seen on a running back." -John Madden
by run Bevo run on Jul 21, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think its very encouraging thing that there is enough talent on our roster to be having this debate.
by Longhorn@Berkeley on Jul 20, 2009 10:14 PM CDT reply actions
Much to learn from the Fiesta Bowl
IN the second half of the Fiesta Bowl, Ohio State changed their coverage to essentially take Shipley, the only real deep threat on the field, out of play with double coverage. Then they shifted coverage around to different receivers and dropped different linebackers into coverage with an additional corner and safety in an attempt to confuse Colt. This strategy worked early in the fourth quarter, but on the last drive, Colt threw twice to Quan, and then it was Collins, Collins, Kirk, Collins, Kirk (on 4th down), Collins, and then the quick strike to Cosby.
Substitute Williams for Cosby on that drive and I thnk you would get an example of what the Longhorns receivers will do this year.
Williams is still falling short of expectations in practices, as he was called out by Will Muschamp, of all people, in a recent press conference It’s hard to know for sure, but when the pads come on there always seems to be something Williams is supposed to do that he doesn’t.
I look for the distribution of catches to go like this: Shipley 70 catches 900 yds, Williams 45 catches 600 yds, Collins 90 catches 750 yds, Kirkendoll 50 catches 450 yds, DJ Grant 40 catches 500 yds. In regard to edsp’s comment above, Colt and the coaches are now comfortable throwing to Kirk and Collins in tough spots, and it won’t all be on the painful backs of two receivers this year.
Collins 90 catches?
for 750 yards? How exactly will he be that open, that consistently, with his speed, and not get 1,000 yards? Cosby’s production will be divided between two, maybe two and a half of our new guys. People still have no idea how much he bailed us out last year.
The way I see it...
Shipley will be Shipley
Collins will be a step down from Cosby, hopefully not a large one, but a step down none the less.
The most important receiver then becomes the number 3, who can pick up the reps that Cosby is leaving behind with Collins taking his spot. I’m hoping thats Malcolm Williams.
As far as who is #2, thats going to be Collins. But the #3 is going to be what will make this an awesome receiving corps, or just a pretty good one. Hopefully between Malcolm, Buckner, and Chiles, one of them can step up to be that effective third threat.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Jul 21, 2009 8:43 AM CDT reply actions
Unless Williams has really disappointed in practices
I’d be a bit surprised, and annoyed, if Greg Davis didn’t adapt the offense to utilize Malcolm Williams. Last season, Williams was young, and while somebody like Shipley had the wheels to sometimes go deep, it was obviously best to use their quickness and smarts in the short to midrange passing game. If Williams has improved and matured from last season, there’s little reason not to legitimately use him as a downfield threat. He won’t have as many catches as Shipley or even Collins, but if he doesn’t build drastically on his numbers from last season, something’s wrong.
by TheElusiveShadow on Jul 21, 2009 9:27 AM CDT reply actions
First, it is about Catching the Ball
Shipley’s strength is he holds on to the ball. This was especially true with Quan. Running after the catch only matters when you make the catch. That is why Collins will be the next best WR. He holds onto the ball more than the others. You get passes thrown to you when the QB knows you will hold onto the ball. If Chiles has (or develops) hands like Quan, he could be dangerous at WR across the middle but fast kids who can’t be depended on to ALWAYS catch the pass won’t be able to replace the Quan.
hasn’t proven he can do anything, and everyone is hesitant to crown him #2 at any position when he couldn’t even play competently at his recruited position, QB.
by Displaced Longhorn on Jul 21, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I may be wrong
I think char was going for this.
"From the waist down, Earl Campbell has the biggest legs I have ever seen on a running back." -John Madden
by run Bevo run on Jul 21, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
it'll be Collins...
http://beta.easports.com/media/play/video/7675959
He’s tearing it up in NCAA ’10….thats for sure!!!
And Ship is too….
http://beta.easports.com/media/play/video/7676139
And if all goes well Ship will be doing this to the tim tebows…
http://beta.easports.com/media/play/image/7534040
I hate how NCAA players look.
Like stubby box-men who’s robot brains go “Stride. Stride. Stride. Stride. ATHLETIC MANEUVER! CELEBRATION ROUTINE”
#2
I saw two glaring star quality players last year who should come to the front this year. Malcolm Williams not only came on as a deep threat, but made some huge plays in traffic. He wants the ball and proved he can position himself to make plays even with defenders draped on him. I think we will see Colt checking down or just flat out audible if Ship is smothered by 2 deep or double coverage. I agree with slants & WS Screens. I think Malcom is a guy who can YAC with the best of them! Could you imagine preparing your defense to face this team though?
The other to watch is Aaron Williams on D…This kid has starpower dripping from him like honey. Watch him come on this year with take-aways. If coach “Wills” he’ll be sitting on routes instead of the bench and with the speed rushes coming from front seven, db’s should be pickin up candy.
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