Morning Coffee Belatedly Talks Recruiting
OU comfort -- that simple. Belated thoughts on Aaron Franklin. The Marshall linebacker went to Oklahoma because he built a larger level of comfort with the coaches by developing relationships over the course of nearly a year. He had less than two months with Texas. The important women in his life made it up to Norman but never to Austin. When Franklin doubted a return visit to the Texas campus after receiving his offer, he cited his family's general tiredness after doing a lot of traveling during the summer -- traveling for the purpose of his mother and grandmother developing a comfort level with OU. Those several disadvantages were ultimately enough to keep Franklin from attending his lifelong favorite school. It's hard to see it as being much more complicated than that. Frustrating? Yes. Inexplicable? Far from it.
Microcosm? Epic Fail? Over at Barking Carnival, closetojumping, typically acerbic and more than slightly bombastic, sees Franklin's recruitment and ultimate decision as being a microcosm of the staff's current program-wide failures in recruiting. The chief culprit in this instance is supposedly offensive line coach Mac Macwhorter, the recruiter for Franklin's East Texas area. As CTJ argues, Macwhorter's assignment in east Texas doesn't make much sense considering the demographics and probably merits review for the staff, with the whole Franklin recruitment highlighting what CTJ sees as a lack of a closer on the current staff. (More on Macwhorter in a moment.)
Defensively, Muschamp should take over that closer's role once he gets established as a recruiter, but the Longhorns would benefit to have a coach like Jim Jeffcoat or Ken Norton on their staff -- former NFL guys who have the cache currently missing. Jackie Shipp seems to have some of that, too, as he and Norton landed on the list of best recruiters ($) by Rivals last year, an article that recognized Macwhorter for his work securing offensive linemen, ironically (which he can do recruiting any other area). Macwhorter also headed the recruitment of Marcus Davis, the top-rated defensive back in the class.
CTJ sees it as dangerous to continue to allow other schools to offer players earlier. I'm not so sure about to adjust and offer kids in September of their senior season. Doing so would involve so much of a change in philosophy for Mack that it would almost sound hypocritical. Let the top kids know that they are in great shape for an invitation to the first Junior Day and those kids will know that they are going to be in the first group offered. Make it actually mean something to receive that offer, like it does now. Maintain the prestige of a Texas offer by maintaining the same timing of offering players no earlier than the first Junior Day.
How about this as a plan -- nearly every kid who received an invitation to the first Junior Day received an offer, so on September 1, the first day that 2011 offers can go out, the coaches sent out invitations to that first Junior Day. It walks the fine line of keeping in place Brown's philosophy of not offering players until the previous class signs, while still letting the top players know that they are in line for an offer. The coaching staff doesn't even really need a high school season to evaluate some of the 2011 players like Aaron Brown, Leroy Scott, Nathan Hughes, Jermauria Rasco, etc. because they alreayd evaluated almost all of those guys at camp this summer. There aren't any secrets about who the top 10 or so players are in the class.
Back to any current recruiting problems. The major issue revolves around dealing with the top players who prolong the process, the guys who seem to always go somewhere else after a long recruitment, and better identifying some guys like Franklin who fall through the cracks. But CTJ is overreacting here about early analysis because two important players in the class -- Greg Daniels and Chris Jones -- were both guys the staff identified before OU could even get into the mix of their respective recruitments, or any other major programs for that matter.
For a player like Tevin Mims last year, a long-held desire to play at Texas assured the coaches of an easy recruitment as Singing Day approached rapidly. In fact, Mims illustrates the problem that closetojumping identifies -- the coaching staff can't simply rely on players wanting to play at Texas beyond any other desire to play at any other school. It's part of the arrogance that opposing fans love to hate. The bigger problem is that it isn't a particularly sound way to recruit, even at Texas. It's too early to say that there are major philosophical or systemic problems with recruiting at this point, especially coming off a small but extremely talented class and in the midst of another exceptional class that I'm not sure if there are systemic evaluation problems here. Texas is a gigantic state and some guys fall through the cracks when they have injuries.
Under the radar: Dayton's Chris Young. CTJ's post refers to Dayton defensive end/linebacker Chris Young as a possibility to receive a late scholarship offer. Though CTJ compares him to Aaron Franklin as a guy "with eerily similar lines." Except, of course, for the fact that Young is several inches taller, about 10-15 pounds heavier and could project as a defensive end in college.
The similarities lie in the fact that Young missed his junior season and that both of them impressed at summer camps with their talent and potential. However, a Houston Chronicle article says that Young played last year and recorded 83 tackles and forced two fumbles -- Rivals and Scout disagree. Young, unlike Franklin, has a frame that can add a significant amount of weight to his reported 4.7 speed -- probably borderline for a Big 12 linebacker, but excellent for a defensive end.
The biggest question is if Young can develop into a position on the college level and not end up receiving the dreaded 'tweener tag -- too slow for a linebacker, but too small for a defensive end. The antithesis to that argument is that the Big 12 is creating hybrid players at not only safety/linebacker, but also linebacker/defensive end. Hybrid good, tweener bad. Or something like that -- it's semantics really. Muschamp may well see Young as another Buck package candidate and, in that case, Young could well end up being "Texas good."
Young does not yet report an offer, but programs like Texas and Oklahoma are beginning to take notice of the talented Dayton player as he prepares for his all-important senior season. The coaching staff may wait to evaluate him during the season, but may want to offer him sooner than later if they like him, as the second-tier programs like TCU, Arkansas, and Houston begin to send out their own offers. As the Franklin recruitment indicated, sometimes having an opportunity to develop a comfort level with the coaching staff simply takes time.
The White mistake becomes the wrong mistake. So here's what went down at the spring game with Darius White -- after showing up with his high school teammates Rashod Favors and Dominique Sanders, Favors received a handwritten nametag that identified him as White's guest rather than a "prospect," as the namategs identified nearly every other potential recruit. Epic fail on the part of the coaching staff -- failing to print out a nametag for Favors and listing him as a guest of White makes little sense. An invitation to the spring game isn't exactly the same as receiving a Longhorn offer, so why wouldn't Texas take more time to at least respect White's friend and teammates and friends as the solid football players that they are? Not having name tags for them and generally acting like they're second-rate guests is inexplicable and inexcusable. White is and has been one of the most important targets in the whole class -- treat him like it.
For a program known for supposedly getting the little details right, Texas clearly didn't in an extremely important recruitment. It's fine not to give White a great deal more attention than the other targeted players, but it wasn't exactly a secret that his teammates matter to him and wasn't exactly surprising that they came down with him. The coaches should spoken with him before the spring game and explicitly asked about his friends. Acknowledging them is a long way from actually offering them just to make a good impression on White. Acknowledgement should be the absolute minimum. No wonder White doesn't feel comfortable with the Texas program right now -- the coaches preach about "family" all the time and creating that homey atmosphere, something that didn't happen with White because of the disrespect of White's Dunbar family.
And that isn't to say that such treatment is a larger problem plaguing the program -- just an unfortunate, isolated incident that may cost Texas one of the top players in the country.
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66 comments
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Comments
as always, thanks for the great writeup, even when there’s next to no recruiting news.
by Displaced Longhorn on Aug 18, 2009 8:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This whole write-up is mildly disturbing to me
1. The Aaron Franklin issue – while you make good points that (a) some guys just fall through the cracks, and (b) Texas has done a good job identifying “under-the-radar” players it wants like Daniels and Jones, the whole Aaron Franklin situation still smells like a lazy recruiting job. This is especially true when you consider Mack’s philosophy of (a) getting Texas guys that (b) actually want to go to Texas. Despite him missing time to an injury, the whole recruitment felt like either (or both) a gut reaction to losing Nelson to A&M and losing steam with Jordan Hicks (whether that’s true or not, we’ll see) as well as seeing OU ardently pursue him. Now whether or not this is public perception or actual fact isn’t known to us, but the fact that this is the way it’s being perceived by Texas fans doesn’t bode well, especially not for someone formerly with the nickname “Mr. February.”
2. That leads into my second point, in which Mack, in his earlier days, was known as one of the (if not THE) foremost recruiters in college football. Ironically, as perception of his coaching ability has shifted to the realm of the positive, Texas fans are finding new things to complain about, chiefly his recruiting failures. They’re not all unjustified; whereas Mack once rewrote the rulebook for recruiting in Texas, now other factors have left him supposedly behind the 8-ball. That’s not to say he’s not still recruiting excellent talent; instead, the combination of earlier offers and street agents (see BC for some great commentary on this) are now standard rules Mack refuses to play by. This is strange for someone who used to write the rules. As nice as it is to lock down 90% of your class by February of the previous year, the perception again is the “buzz” that schools like USC and Florida generate with their down-to-the-wire top flight recruiting creates a positive brand perception of that school; on the flipside, there’s no “buzz” with Texas. Even in a year where we’re expected to hear decisions from some top-flight recruits on signing day, no one is wildly optimistic. That’s not a problem when we’re winning on the same caliber as a USC or Florida, but it will most assuredly be magnified should Mack (or Texas) slip from its dominant post in the Big 12.
3. What’s wholly disconcerting is seeing the two chief problems above play out directly in Darius White’s recruiting (which, as mentioned early on in the process, should have easily gone Texas’ way). Namely, (1) the perception that Texas is “lazy” (relatively) in recruiting mirrored in the nametag issue, and (2) Texas’ aversion to issuing offers before the first Junior Day as well as down-to-the-wire recruiting mirrored in the lack of early and/or possibly late commitment from White. Not to say that without these two issues, White would definitely be a Horn, but it’s entirely possible that had Texas either (1) issued Favors’ nametag correctly or (2) formally offered White before he began generating 5* buzz, White would already be committed as a Longhorn. Moreover, if Texas had been recently involved in and winning more last-minute 5* signings, public perception may still be on Texas’ side rather than OU’s in acquiring White’s services for next year.
To summarize, it’s not like any of this is a major problem now. As you point out, we’re still getting recruits, both top-tier and under-the-radar, and we’re still winning. However, personally (or maybe even publicly), the negative recruiting trends just feel ominous, and might possibly lead to bigger problems down the line.
by jc25 on Aug 18, 2009 8:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Mr. February was always bullsh*t...
He wasn’t Mr. February because he always brought in the best classes it was because the media wanted to punish him for getting good players but not winning anything but a lot of games. I think the media has laid off now that we have won a MNC and the meme will continue to die if we win it again this year.
I think Mack would disagree about signing day buzz being much of a factor for anyone but the media and the fans. The signing day buzz obviously doesn’t factor in for but a small minority of recruits and the ones who play it up the most are often not the kind of guys you think of when you talk about building a team. Plus if you are waiting on a quarter of your class until signing day you run the risk of getting left with the short end of the stick and hurting for depth.
It doesn’t sound like our recent signing day misses have much to do with laziness. For all the crap that was written about Darrell Scott, it doesn’t sound like a lack of effort on our part was any factor in Scott choosing Colorado. Much the same could be said for Kennard and Fitzpatrick last year.
I am not sure how winning last-minute 5* signings would help us with White or hurt OU. Neither team has had many (any?) late 5* signing in the past 4 or 5 years (Wasn’t Mike Reed a late signer for OU a couple of years ago?), so its not like OU is riding some signing day mojo that we are lacking. In fact, Mack has pushed the calendar up for elite players in the state. When was the last 5* guy in state a signing-day decision? That is why hurts perception for us nationally and hinders us from earning signing day buzz, since we are more likely to get in-state guys than out of state guys.
I just don’t buy into there being a problem at this point except for these one-off sort of problems like the nametag issue. I don’t think we should open the floodgates on offers, though I hope the staff will do a little more pursuing of elite guys out-of-state.
by Rickyspub on Aug 18, 2009 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The true....
…..“Mr.February” is coaching in Minneapolis. The relentless pursuit we exhibited prior to his departure are long gone. The White/Favors mistake would never have occured during the Tim Brewster era.
As CTJ pointed out, even our recruit identification has been somewhat suspect. In addition to CTJ’s examples, just look at D.J. Grant from right here at Austin-LBJ. Right here under our collective noses! Our staff didn’t have him targeted until Bob Stoops made him his offer. Stoops was quoted as saying something like (paraphrasing) – I know I’m just alerting Mack Brown to your presence, but you’re just too good an athlete to not give you an offer. Geez!
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Aug 18, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brewster's Millions...or Stats: Lies or Damn Lies
Rivals data only goes back to 2002, but that gives us 5 years of Brewster’s ‘millions’ and 3 (+partial for this year) years of post-Brewster ‘failure’. Ok, Brewster was still recruiting the ‘07 class when he took the UMN job in January, but he left prior to signing day which means we lost his ’relentless pursuit’ at the most critical period.
Average stars of the 2002-2006 recruits=3.66 (We were in the top 10 only twice; #1 in ’02 and #5 in ’06)
Average starts of the 2007-2010 recruits=3.75 (We were top 10 twice; #5 in both ’07 and ’08 and we will almost certainly crack the Top 10 this year as well)
So are we not getting top guys then without Brewster? There were 10 five-star guys in the 2002-2006 class, but that number is completely skewed by the 6 guys in the 2002 class. We got two 5*s in ‘06, one in both ’03 and ’04, and none in ’05. Post-Brewster we have gotten 5 five-star guys. We got 2 in ’07, 3 last year, and none in ’08 or so far in ’10 (that will likely change even if White and Jeffcoat don’t join us).
I am just not seeing any evidence that suggests Brewster’s departure affected our recruiting in any discernible way. Now that’s not to say his departure hasn’t been a big reason for our bad ‘luck’ with TEs. Maybe his coaching would have better kept Irby healthy or at least kept Finley from leaving early.
by Rickyspub on Aug 18, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure what you’re saying. Tim Brewster was in Denver, not Austin, for the entirety of that 2002-2006 timespan.
by burntorangehorn on Aug 18, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sh*t, what a brainfart...
I was wanting data so bad I just thought he left us directly to Minnesota…When I was typing up the bit about Irby and Finley, I knew Brewster had nothing to do with them or their recruitment, but for some reason didn’t remember that he wasn’t with the program in the early 2000s when those guys were brought in. I thought he left us to coach with the Chargers rather than the Broncos.
So, I don’t have any decent data for 98-2001 though I know we had a great class in ’01, nothing like the sick 2002 class, but that is also one of the best recruiting classes in modern college football. That said, the past 8 years of recruiting has been pretty stable and pretty high quality and in fact the most recent 3 years (counting this one) are looking to be the best sustained period of recruiting we have had in the Mack Brown era.
by Rickyspub on Aug 18, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that I think of it, 1999 had to also be at least a top 5 class too...
That one had Simms who seemed to be everyone’s top recruit. While 2000 had the great WR trio, I don’t remember it being as heralded so maybe it wouldn’t have been a top 10 class. 2001 probably was a top 10 class. I can’t remember the 1998 class (was that Shaun Rogers’s class?) and Brown wasn’t hired until after the season so I am not sure how much of a chance Brewster got to recruit for Texas that year.
So HC, maybe you are right and Brewster single-handedly brought us three or four top 10 classes in his short time here.
Superprep was subsumed by Scout, but they don’t list rankings any farther back than 2002, even though Superprep has had recruit rankings since before that I am pretty sure. Who else used to do rankings? I am not coming up with anything on Goggle but Max Emfinger, but I can’t find anything historical on his site.
by Rickyspub on Aug 18, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1999 was the #1 ranked class in the nation
with Simms the top offensive player in the country and Corey Redding the top defensive player in the country.
by 2Cor12:9 on Aug 18, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn Lies huh?
How epic.
Brewer’s marquee signees:
1) Julius Peppers – Country’s #1 Defensive Player
2) Corey Redding – Country’s #1 Defensive Player
3) Chris Simms – Country’s #1 Offensive Player
4) Vince Young – Country’s #1 Offensive Player
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Aug 20, 2009 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You might read my responses...
I have already acknowledged that those early classes were exceptional and Brewster is indeed Mr. February. He can recruit great but has no rings.
by Rickyspub on Aug 20, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read your response.....
……well before I typed the follow-up. Well enough to know you were fumbling with your other hand. You pulled up your skirt and you know it.
No rings? Are you kidding me? That’s SO lame. Just how many rings did Mack Brown have after his first 2 seasons as a Div.1 HC? How about in his first 20 seasons as a Div.1 HC? Heck, he didn’t have his first Div.1 winning season until his 6th year!
It took Brewster only 2 years.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Aug 21, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way too much overeaction on Franklin...
I guess it was because there wasn’t much else going on in recruiting and what had happened was negative, but losing Franklin really has caused a lot of silly things to be said in the blogosphere.
OK, so we missed on a good player who said he was a longtime fan. But I can’t knock the coaches on this one very much. First, if Nelson and Hicks had already committed to us no would have even mentioned Franklin and the coaches wouldn’t have even extended an offer. In fact if either one of the above had already committed Franklin probably doesn’t get an offer either. On the flip side, if we offered Franklin back in February the blogs would have been going nuts over how lazy the staff is for taking a guy (who looks like a tweener) coming off a major injury just because he was an easy get rather than holding out for Hicks and Nelson. Honestly, if Shaun Lewis weren’t a Lyles guy we would have already offered him and probably wouldn’t have also extended an offer to Franklin. The kid could turn in to a great player, but you can’t get them all and I wouldn’t trade him for either of our current commits.
by Rickyspub on Aug 18, 2009 8:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The fact that....
…..OU had Franklin targeted his sophomore season and we didn’t know of him until 3 months ago speaks volumns. His junior season injury doesn’t provide an excuse for not having him in the system as a sophomore.
Hicks and Nelson are great excuses until you see them playing for Ohio State and Aggie, respectively.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Aug 18, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We had like 500 recruits at the Spring Game!
In fact, I believe I read somewhere that we had Franklin on our radar as a sophomore, but his injury scared us off until it was apparent that it didn’t cost him anything in terms of his speed and agility. Obviously, we offered Franklin precisely because Nelson was obviously not going to sign with us. We may still now offer a his teammate Chris Young and you will probably call that a real lazy kiss-your-cousin pick if and when Hicks picks someone else.
I am sorry, but you are constantly beating the lazy coach drum which makes Franklin an ideal place for you to bitch and moan. If we had offered Franklin back in February you would have been cheering on GoBR or PB as they put a big question mark next to Franklin asking why the heck we offered this guy just because he is a big UT fan.
by Rickyspub on Aug 18, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your crystal ball...
…. is broken. Your conjecture has no basis. OU stayed on him and built the true relationship that delivered a life-long Longhorn fan to Norman. How is life in the ostrich hole?
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Aug 20, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No point in arguing with you...
We didn’t miss on Franklin anymore than any program doesn’t always keep tabs on the 5th or 6th rated guys at a position if they are consistently getting the top 2 or 3. If Franklin becomes a Parade All-American this season we can say we missed, but you can’t expect to pick out Jaquizz Rogers out of the crowd 100% of the time.
by Rickyspub on Aug 20, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Points Rickyspud
I agree 100%! I will take Texas recruiting in 2009 over anything we had in the 90’s. You guys remember the 90’s when 8-3 was a great season. I trust Mack on the recruiting regardless of how Rivals or anyone else ranks a player I trust Mack’s ranking. There are some players Texas will miss on but for the most part we bring them in like no other team. Franklin was gamble back in February as pointed out in Rickyspud’s post.
by TXHorns on Aug 18, 2009 9:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
D. White
I still find it hard to believe how much of a deal has been made out of this. If we were not really recruiting them any longer and they were accompanying one of our current targets to an event, then wasn’t the nametag in fact correct?
If White is truly going to take this “mishap” into consideration when deciding which school to play for, then it only stands to reason that UT not offering his friends would have been seen as an even bigger slight to them and we’d be in this same position anyway.
As far as the Franklin situation goes, it is hard to agree with the notion that a player “fell through the cracks” or we got in on him too late, when we showed him a ton of interest before his senior year even started.
by Horncasting on Aug 18, 2009 10:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the staff did goof up here...
This happened back during the Spring game, so it was pretty early in the process. Ok, we weren’t really recruiting Favors, but at that early stage I don’t think the staff wants to completely alienate Favors, much less possibly damage their relationship with his friend and one of our top recruits in White. If we only had one LB commitment right now, we might be in a panic for having lost any shot at Favors who surely would be on our next tier list. I think this was an error and one I hope the staff has apologized for early and often both to White and to Favors. I think once White’s friends make their choices, it will be more apparent what White will do. If they choose the same school and it happens to be one that White has as a top choice then the writing is on the wall that we won’t get White. If they end up choosing two different programs (especially ones White isn’t interested in) then we are right back in the thick of things. I think not recruiting White’s friends hurt us some, but the name tag slight against Favors cuts a little deeper and was certainly something we could have and should have avoided.
by Rickyspub on Aug 18, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad I don't have to walk the fine line
Do you lie to a kid and tell him he’s a prospect to gain the upperhand on his friend’s recruitment? Do you be honest with him so you don’t waste his time or get his hopes up? Sounds like a los/lose situation.
What did we do with Dominique Sanders?
"From the waist down, Earl Campbell has the biggest legs I have ever seen on a running back." -John Madden
by run Bevo run on Aug 18, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure if there’s another source for the Favors/White anecdote, but where I heard it and posted it here on BON was in a rivals radio interview with Geoff Ketchum. He said there were something like 500 kids there at that camp. Even if that were an exaggeration, Favors still isn’t that horrible a prospect that there are hundreds of kids at a UT camp who are better prospects than he is, and Ketchum said he was the only kid there who wasn’t given the standard treatment.
by burntorangehorn on Aug 18, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Makes you wonder
20 years from now, will Favors be looking back on this thinking Texas coaching staff were a bunch of bastards for not having a pre-printed tag for their spring game? Will White be thinking the same? Sure they may have their feelings hurt now, but I hope it doesn’t sway a life altering decision like where you are going to make the most valuable investment of your life.
"From the waist down, Earl Campbell has the biggest legs I have ever seen on a running back." -John Madden
by run Bevo run on Aug 18, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice piece of meaningless...
…..rationalization. Who gives a phluck what they might think at age 40? What puts their signature on the LOI is their believes at age 18. I can still remember all the excuses provided for the recruitment of Malcolm Kelly, then the grumbling that occurred as he put up the big numbers.
I hope we don’t have similar grumblings about Darius White………
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Aug 18, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll actually agree with you here HC...
We don’t care what White or Favors thinks in 20 years!
by Rickyspub on Aug 18, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get over yourself
Life is more than what and who you see in the mirror every morning.
"From the waist down, Earl Campbell has the biggest legs I have ever seen on a running back." -John Madden
by run Bevo run on Aug 18, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's it?
PWNED!
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
by HornChamps on Aug 20, 2009 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was Favors among the 500 invited?
Perhaps Favors was indeed only there as a guest of White. If the staff didn’t know he was coming because he wasn’t an official invitee, then how are they supposed to give him a name tag? I think the fact that White was supposedly ticked off suggests that Favors was indeed invited and if that was the case the staff should have treated him like the 500 other guys there. The first case isn’t the staff’s fault, the second case is but even that could be an honest mistake considering the numbers involved.
by Rickyspub on Aug 18, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he wasn’t invited, or at least that’s the impression I get. That’s exactly the problem. Well, that, and also that the staff didn’t scramble to find an extra red carpet to roll out for him when he showed.
by burntorangehorn on Aug 18, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, talk about a sucky situation...
If he really did bring Favors as his guest and then got upset when Favors was treated as his guest rather than an invited recruit, it doesn’t cast a very positive light on White’s character. I think I would rather it had been a mistake by someone on the staff…
by Rickyspub on Aug 18, 2009 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I imagine he was invited,
While the coaches probably knew they weren’t going to offer Favors at that point, I can’t imagine that he is any worse of a prospect than a ton of other guys at the event who were listed as prospects and had no chance at a Texas offer. To me, this one is on the coaching staff for needless disrespect.
by GhostofBigRoy on Aug 18, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was it needless disrespect or just an honest mistake?
I would think it had to be the later if we were rolling out the carpet for other no chance ‘prospects’. Either way it is an unfortunate incident and I hope the staff came away with the right attitude not only towards White and Favors but as far as planning future events that will include guys who aren’t at the top of our recruiting radar.
by Rickyspub on Aug 18, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure it was a mistake, but afraid it might have been taken as disrespect
It was also weird that D. White, Favors and Sanders were not sitting with the other recruits for the spring game.
Hopefully that staff has rebuilt the relationship with White and put this unfortunate mistake in the past.
If Favors was really being recruited hard by OU I think he would have committed already and then worked on D White to join him. I also find it hard to believe that OU is seriously recruiting Favors but Texas did not have any interest in him at all, especially when he plays a position that we have a recruiting need. Something doesn’t make sense about all of this. Maybe the real answer is something totally diffrent like Favors does not have the grades for Texas. I have no idea, but I’m still trying to figure out why Texas wouldn’t treat a kid with an OU offer like any other recruit.
by Wrangler86 on Aug 18, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely finding it odd that Favors and Sanders haven't committed anywhere...
I would be interested in finding out what their stories are.
by Rickyspub on Aug 20, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Following Comment is Quite Possibly Pompous and Arrogant
The bottom line is that Texas is the leading brand in College Athletics. The coaches are being asked to identify kids before they have driver’s licenses. Like Mack says, the most important thing is to find the talented kids that dream of going to Texas, and that can become leaders of the football team. If a kid is willing to forego the number 1 brand in College football due to a name tag issue, I’m just not sure I am going to lose sleep over that.
I personally think Mack does it right. Gets the most recruits in the nation in February to guarantee at least a solid class – and then relies on the Texas brand to deliver some late bloomers. The kids that he has brought to this program are of a character and caliber that are second to none. Can you imagine sending Quan, Orakpo, Miller, McCoy, OB, Ross etc into NFL interview rooms at the combine? No other school does that.
by realmccoy on Aug 18, 2009 10:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it's a garbage excuse...
If White wants to come to Texas, he’s not going to let something so stupid stop him. Who let’s an obvious mistake, that is so minor, dictate where you spend the next 4 years? Seriously.
If he gets up to Norman. What’s he going to say? “Boy…I sure showed them!!!!” But, then he is still stuck in Norman. WTF? He can’t figure this out?
by Hippie Killer on Aug 18, 2009 12:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Per ESPN's Bruce Feldman... (emphasis mine)
Stanford, which already has a commitment in the 2012 and 2011 recruiting classes, landed another ’11 kid.
Wide receiver Ty Montgomery, who had 53 receptions for 679 yards and six touchdowns as a sophomore for Dallas’ St. Mark’s High, committed to the Cardinal, according to Greg Biggins, over offers from Texas, California, UCLA and Vanderbilt.
“I actually committed late last week,” the 6-0, 200-pounder told Biggins. “I camped with Stanford in the summer and basically just fell in love with the place. I loved the campus, the coaching staff and of course the academics at Stanford are tough to beat.”
That has to be a typo, right? I seem to recall ESPN running a similar story earlier where they reported an offer from Texas to a then-underclassman. Just wondering if anyone had news.
Link. (Insider)
by jc25 on Aug 18, 2009 1:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Probably Texas Tech or Texas A&M. You know how thorough the ESPN staff are at checking their facts. Or their typos.
Still a Blaine Irby fan
by patienthornsfan on Aug 18, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no way that he had an offer.
He probably thought the generic mailings were an offer. This happens frequently. Remember Joe Okafor claiming an offer?
by GhostofBigRoy on Aug 18, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is White more interested....
in what Favors is saying, or could his ear be bent more the direction of Jeffcoat, Seastrunk, Hicks, & Reed?
My gut tells me we get 2-3 of these guys, or we get none at all. Jeffcoat has been absolutely stealth on his intentions. I think Rak’s exposure this year with the Redskins will add a lot to Jeffcoats noodling process. Sergio’s year could speak volumes as well in that regard.
We’ve seen the Seastrunk coaster and something jumped out at me during an AMP interview he had. He made light of every school brought up and jokingly put himself in Auburn, LSU (Lache Seastrunk University as he called it), or USC, but when asked about the Horns he turned very serious? He ended with saying he wanted to talk to his mom and get her input on wherever he goes. I think, and I may be the only one out here that thinks,we still have a legitimate shot if we bring it on late.
Franklins loss was sad in the fact that his memories as a kid will be burnt orange, but we did give him the shot. I wish him the best, but I don’t think we missed so bad that we start calling for Mack’s wheelchair just yet.
We are watching the maturity of an elite, if not the most elite, college football program in the country. The development of players here has been stellar. Sergio came in as a 215-220 pound linebacker and will graduate as a 260 pound fast & furious DE. We are watchin a 3 star QB making collegiate history, see a starting defensive lineman who was a running back, and a possible starting TE who last year was an offensive guard!
Wasn’t Malcolm Williams a 4 star? How about Aaron Williams, or James Kirkondall?
Rivals, Scout, and ESPN are all out there subjectively rating players from articles, video, and hype. Mack and his staff rates on a very consistant and trustowrthy scale. If Franklin had been a standout, lock down pick then I believe we would have been all over it.
Whether or not we get any of the current 5 stars still out there to me is of little consequence in the big picture. Wouldn’t we rate some of our Rivals 4 stars as 5 stars anyway?
White has a huge decision to make. I hope he does really take his time and consider the opportunity to sanctify his own childhood dreams of running out the tunnel of DKR . There will be 90,000+ fellow dreamers cheering him on!
by orangetower on Aug 18, 2009 1:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Texas is done with Seastrunk.
Aaron Williams was the top-rated recruit in Texas.
by GhostofBigRoy on Aug 18, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, Texas has no more interest in Seastrunk. We called his bluff already
Seastrunk was asked about A&M and he said something like, “I got a new phone and lost the coach’s number”. Asked about recruitment by OU, the same thing—I lost their number. OK
As to Texas and missing the Texas camp, he said “he had to babysit his nephew and that was a priority.” But, he is still very high on Texas or something like that. He is just feeding his own ego.
I’m not bringing this up to beat the deadhorse Seastrunk recruitment, but merely to point out how stupid a recruit sounds with a bunch of made up excuses. He could have just said, I’m not interested in OU, A&M or Texas and there are schools that I feel are a better fit for me.
I thought Seatrunk’s tone really changed from joking to serious when asked about Trovon Reed wanting to commit before the Army game. It was like Seastrunk was p.o.d that Reid was going to ruin his fun surprise. They are definitely playing together……and my money is on LSU.
by Wrangler86 on Aug 18, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but Williams wasn't a 5*
and I believe that’s the point orangetower was trying to make.
by 2Cor12:9 on Aug 18, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If its 2 or 3 or none at all it is none at all
by realmccoy on Aug 18, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I vote 3
White, Jeffcoat and Hicks. Horns up but crossed.
If Muschamp is up for Mack’s job….I wonder if Jim Jeffcoat is a candidate for a job in Austin? Jim Jeffcoat would probably be a great recruiter at Texas too. It is kind of odd for Asst. Coach Jim Jeffcoat to be the Defensive Line coach at U of H, but not able to land a commit from his own son, the top rated DE. He could be a good fit at Texas in a couple years.
by Wrangler86 on Aug 18, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The interesting fact is that
Jeffcoat is coaching at UH where their head coach used to be the OC at OU. I figured this would help Stoops and company some way in landing Jackson, but we’ll see.
by 2Cor12:9 on Aug 18, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeffcoat's twin sister is going to OU on a basketball schollie
That has to weigh in OU’s favor also. But, Jim Jeffcoat has maintained that Jackson is his own man and will decide what is best for him. Jim Jeffcoat said that Jackson going to the same school as his sister is not a determining factor. What a rivalry inside the Jeffcoat household if one is a Sooner and one is a Longhorn!
by Wrangler86 on Aug 18, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like That Kid Already
I really like the way the Jeffcoat family has handled the recruiting process. Saying his son is his own man reflects a maturity that adds to Jeffcoat’s value in my eyes.
by realmccoy on Aug 18, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
He has leadership potential to match his talent. I’m hoping it is between Texas and USC. I keep dreaming that the NCAA scandals will turn kids away from USC, but apparently I live in a fantasy land.
by Wrangler86 on Aug 18, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If there's a valid criticism of Texas' recruiting,
Two thoughts on Texas coaches coming up short on players they pursue “after the first wave”:
1. Texas gets a high percentage of its targets; the coaches don’t go five and six deep at a position with serious contacts and getting to know players. When several targets don’t commit, they don’t have a backup plan in place. (Ego issues: We won’t be signing them anyway)
2. The coaches don’t want to mislead players who haven’t received offers that one is coming soon (Mr. Nice Guy issues: Don’t want it to look like they strung somebody along)
Big picture, though, I’ll take what we’ve got. I remember the Akers and Mackovic eras too well.
by edsp on Aug 18, 2009 1:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
But how valid is it?
If we offered Lewis and Franklin back in February, basically your second wave guys below Jackson, Nelson, and Benson, everyone would be bitching about how that sure thing up in Ohio got away and we never gave Nelson a chance to fall for us because we won’t chase the top players, especially when they won’t commit early. We either hold spots for our top recruits and lose out on the second tier guys who get an offer from another major D1 program or we offer all the second tier guys and either don’t keep offers open for later/NSD commits potentially losing out on some real difference makers or we take 30 guys and end up cutting 6 or 7 of them to get to 85 and piss off a lot of young players and their HS coaches. Its a no win.
I think the current method is best. You offer early to the top 1/2/3 guys at a position depending on need and then once those players start committing you keep your eye open on the later developing talent and take what you need to fill out your class.
To me the big recruiting criticism for this staff is the promise not to take another player at a position. I am glad we got Gilbert but he should also understand that if he blows his shoulder out again or even hit by Sergio Kindle’s SUV, we need to have some security at all positions. On the flip side I am ticked that Sheppard made a big deal about being labeled a QB recruit and then goes to LSU and starts practicing at WR.
by Rickyspub on Aug 18, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mr Nice Guy = Smart Long Term Thinking
Sometimes it is frustrating when Mack is so honest about key athletes. The 2 most recent examples were Russell Shepard not being recruited as a QB and keeping a promise to Whaley to be the only RB on scholly from the 09 class. Now, Shepard is at LSU – and they are trying to talk him into WR postion. Lying to a high profile player will hurt you in head to head recruiting in the future. Bottom line, honesty is the best and smartest policy.
by realmccoy on Aug 18, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure this is true, though one can hope
Lying to a high profile player will hurt you in head to head recruiting in the future. Bottom line, honesty is the best and smartest policy.
Urban Meyer, anyone?
by jc25 on Aug 19, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We must have an amazing coaching staff
To be this fatalistic and self destructive in our recruit practices and still win most of our games.
by BoddickerIsClutch on Aug 18, 2009 2:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Here is an Ironclad Guarantee
Neither the next 5 RRS nor the next 5 BigXII South titles will be decided by outrecruiting OU. These games and titles will be decided by the development and coaching of these blue chippers, and the game day preparation by those coaches. If we pick up the number 1 LB in Texas this year – OU is more likely to do so the next. In addition, who says the number 1 LB in Texas is truly the number 1 LB in Texas. I certainly think turning Colt McCoy from a 3 star recruit into the QB he is today is far more important than attracting the supposed 5 star recruit. (as evidenced by Perriloux)
by realmccoy on Aug 18, 2009 2:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I like the way we recruit
I like that when they show the player bios by position on TV it goes: TX, TX, TX, TX, TX
I like that we can pull 5 star talent, at ALL. And trust that if we’re not recruiting some 5 star talent, he’s probably not the right fit for us.
I like that we’re in the top 10 of some random Rivals ranking, but realize there’s probably not much difference between #1 and #10 that wouldn’t be changed by coaching and attitude/personality.
I like that the guys that come here, WANT to come here. And we don’t have to spend a lot of time, or illegal monies, to convince them.
I like that our depth chart is dynamic, and we don’t promise starting time to some 17 year old kid because he thinks he’s the shit, but we don’t rule out benching some senior if that 17 year old IS the shit ( not that there isn’t bias towards experience, but I like that too).
Honestly I think getting the top atheletes is really only 50% of recruiting, but I don’t really know, because I’m just a fan. If I did know, I’d be a recruiter!
by notsofst on Aug 18, 2009 4:02 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I keep hearing rumors that Seastrunk has a street agent
and that is the real reason some schools are backing off of him, the fact that he and his entourage have their hands out.
However, I’ve also heard that texas has two players who had street agents involved in their recruitment, so I don’t see that as a valid reason to back off a kid.
I think Seastrunk is a kid who probably is trying to go to the highest bidder, so his interest in $EC schools is completely understandable.
by Beergut on Aug 18, 2009 5:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I find it very hard to believe that Texas was actively involved with a recruit's street agent
Coach Brown doesn’t drive down those streets….too many potholes, etc.
Care to share the names?
by Wrangler86 on Aug 18, 2009 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something was weird in Auburn
The way Seastrunk was bringing his friends and other recruits with him to Auburn has to make you wonder what sort of ATM machine they had there. It was becoming too weird and similar to the M. Brown recruiting games from last year.
Ketchum said that he sees Seastrunk attending a Texas game in Austin just to play his game and get his name in lights. But, Ketchum also said he thought the Texas coaches would do very little to acknowledge him or play into the hype.
On to 2011 RBs — Aaron Green seems to be the most similar to Seastrunk (and a little better), but he seems very likely to go to Nebraska since his brother just committed to NU. Brown seems like a beast. Glad that 2011 has a lot of RB talent in Texas.
by Wrangler86 on Aug 18, 2009 5:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Per Mrs. Tommy Tubberville
She stated and I think this was before her husband was sacked that all that Auburn wanted for a coach was someone to look the other way while the boosters doled out the envelopes with cash.
by realmccoy on Aug 18, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kind of like a house down the street from me
Cars coming and going all night long. Alabama fans are all over Chizik and Auburn, and if anyone knows about dirty recruiting they certainly would.
by Wrangler86 on Aug 18, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Recruiting until NSD
I hope that we haven’t given up on some of these guys like Franklin, Nelson, and Matthews. Heck, we probably should still be contacting Dixon. Last year OU had 2 or 3 major de-commits, like Eric Ward who was a 4 star WR, who went to Tech.
I kown we don’t usually go after guys once they commit (or decommit from us) but I hope that we are keeping options open for a recruit if we truly want him and he’s good. If A&M sucks it up like expected then Nelson and Matthews may be really anxious to switch.
by Wrangler86 on Aug 20, 2009 9:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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