Saban being Saban? When was that ever a good thing?
by Robertpz on Jan 2, 2010 1:28 PM CST
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PrintWorking at FOX today at the airport, we obviously have the first round of bowl games on. The ESPN2 halftime piece was on Nick Saban and his coaching abilities & his influence on his players. It's nice to see how winning has turned around the perception of Nick Saban. This is the same guy who lied to everyone while with the Dolphins about his desire to stay only to bolt a few weeks later for the Alabama job. This is the same guy who, after losing to my wife's alma mater ULM, equated the defeat to Pearl Harbor and 9/11. A few years ago, you couldn't find someone to say something nice about him. Overall, he has put together only 5 double digit winning seasons in his 14 seasons as a college head coach. With LSU I can understand getting a little extra love considering their limited history of success. However, he took over Alabama, home of Bear Bryant and Forrest Gump. They sweat excellence with the long-standing history and untold hundreds of National titles they may or may not have won. It's not like he took a Ford Pinto and drove it to the title game; he inherited a Cadillac.
On the other side, you have Mack Brown. Not only has he strung together 12 double-digit winning seasons in his 22 years of coaching and is undefeated in the three BCS games he has coached. He took over at Texas that had enjoyed two double-digit winning seasons in the 90s and one in the 80s. He has since cranked out 9 straight double-digit winning seasons with the Longhorns. He took a legendary program that had lost it's luster in the last 25 years of the 20th Century and brought them back to relevance. He seems to make the right personnel decisions at the right times and is surrounded by people who buy into his system.
While I agree that it will be an epic battle come next Thursday night, all of the signs are pointing to the wrong coach when it comes to predicting the outcome. Mack has coached this program thru games that go in every direction, but sideways. In the big ones, he finds a way (or a player) to win. Colt, the defense, and every other member of the team are a reflection of Coach Brown. So Saban can be Saban, but Mack's the person everyone should be talking about and worried about if you're a 'Bama fan.
Hook 'em!
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pissing contest?
They’re both great coaches. I think Bama fans have particularly noticed that no one had anything nice to say about him until late last year, but he obviously knows what he’s doing. The same qualifications you gave for praising Mack Brown (taking a storied program back to great heights) are apparently a reason to claim that Saban hasn’t really done anything impressive with Alabama. Check out the other thread on this blog that mentions the fact that Alabama O-line hasn’t been called for a hold since mid-October and tell me you seriously aren’t at all impressed by UA’s coaching.
No pissing needed...
Considering ’Bama ran most of the tables in the 70s and won a National title in 90s, I think the turnaround for Bama was more of a slight tilting of the steering wheel. Alabama is where coaches go, not leave. Very few schools can claim that and Mack has moved Texas into that same category of late.
We will just have to see how the game shakes out. The reality is that I should appreciate all of the love Alabama is getting. It will make the beer & barbecue at my house that night taste all the more sweeter when an “upset” occurs…
"I've never gone into a game trying to win the Heisman Trophy; I go into a game trying to win." - Colt McCoy
ummmmm
“Alabama is where coaches go, not leave.”
Have we forgotten Dennis Franchione so quickly?
"A lot of people look for the easy way to do anything, in swimming there is no easy way." - Eddie Reese
He
said “great.”
"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken
He should've said...
"A demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." -H. L. Mencken
bama was in pretty rough shape pre-Saban, he’s done a great job turning that program around.
by Displaced Longhorn on Jan 2, 2010 2:48 PM CST reply actions
Alabama's record Prior to Saban's arrival
2001: 7-5
2002: 10-3
2003: 4-9
2004: 6-6
2005: 10-2
2006: 6-7
Not exactly a Cadillac – much like Texas prior to Mack’s arrival, up and down, up and down. Also, let’s throw in the sudden departure of Franphony to the Agros, the Mike Price scandal ("It’s rollin’ baby!), two NCAA probations that reduced available scholarships by as much as 1/3 of the 85 total at one point and the closest anyone has come to the “death penalty” since SMU. And Mike Shula. Mike Shula! All within that time frame.
And all the while you’ve got a fanbase still wanting, expecting, demanding the “Cadillac” that their program once was, year after year. Perhaps the most demanding collective of fans in the country.
Mack might have turned the record around immediately, but I don’t think he truly won us over until he beat OU, won the Big XII and MNC in 2005. Even after that, we all wondered, “but what can he do without VY?”
That hasn’t been the case with Saban at Alabama. To me, the most impressive thing he’s done is manage that rabid fanbase. He immediately calmed them down, lowered their expectations, and actually made them an ad hoc member of the team. They even behave themselves now. Well, for the most part.
They’re happy, and with good reason; everyone’s happy when they’re winning, right? Not Alabama fans. At least not in the past – before Saban’s arrival. They used to complain and groan over every detail of the Gene Stallings regime, even though the man averaged 10 wins per season (and won an MNC)!
Saban never allowed that to happen. Don’t criticize, or I’m outta here, is what he seemed to be saying to everyone the moment he arrived in Tuscaloosa. And they bought it. Even in 2007, when they went 7-6, the grumbling was kept to a minimum. And when they went 12-2 last year, they didn’t nitpick every single gameplan like they did in the Stallings days when he would post a similar winning percentage.
Friends may come and go, but enemies accumulate.
- Thomas Jones
Haha
I grumbled my ass off after the ULM loss, but at the same time I think everybody realized he could only do so much in his first year. Alabama fans can be pretty rowdy, but I think Saban does know how to deal with us. He speaks our language. Just look at his interview with ESPN after all their talk about Alabama being a huge favorite.
Texas gets no love from the media. What else is new?
"Stats are for losers, I like winning games"
". . .switzer is a cracked out bitch . . ."-osu poster
I don't know what you're talking about. Bama is going to win this.
I don’t know why Texas should even bother to show up. Just give them the trophy. Gosh, don’t you listen to ESPN or any of the talk shows? Texas doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell. They’re the SEC, after all! Ahem.
In-VINCE-able.
Trophy
Did ya hear the news? God himself is coming to give another trophy to the beloved SEC! Hes going to be accompanied by Jesus Christ himself (Tim Tebow).
While most are dreaming of success, winners wake up and work hard to achieve it.
I have not heard anyone pick Texas to win this...
I love being the underdog to this degree… this complete lack of respect is going to work to our advantage.
Play like you mean it...
Texas will win it, you heard it here first. First to pick ’em.
by Displaced Longhorn on Jan 2, 2010 8:00 PM CST up reply actions
I've been predicting a Texas national championship all year.
Sure, I’m a homer, but there’s a lot of reason to be optimistic. In particular, if you go by average performance, Texas has a much better offense. The defensive advantage goes slightly to Bama. But only slightly.
And, at this point, anyone who still listens to the national media (i.e., the East Coast Media) is just doing it to themselves.
I've actually heard increasing numbers of people
picking Texas to win. They’re still not the majority for sure, but as the bowl season has gone on, I’ve heard at least a few people pick them.
Yeah, I don't know bout a Cadillac
And if it was, it had been a while since it was in good condition. Before Saban, I thought of Alabama kind of like I thought of Notre Dame – Great…. 40 years ago.
And they probably should be the favorites. I am OK with that. I really don’t care about how much pre-game love we get from the media. I like being underestimated.
"A lot of people look for the easy way to do anything, in swimming there is no easy way." - Eddie Reese
I do think it's funny
that Texas fans are loving the media portrayal while Alabama fans (the ones I know at least) are getting annoyed with it. I mean, it’s okay for ME to think we’ll win but I wish ESPN would stop giving UT the fodder.
This is the same guy who, after losing to my wife’s alma mater ULM, equated the defeat to Pearl Harbor and 9/11.
This is just stupid. He in no way equated a football loss to those incidents where people were killed.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
He actually did,
but his intent was to describe overcoming adversity and uniting as a team to get thru it.
Where are all the coaches going?
no, he didn’t. Unless you don’t understand what equate means or you only got your information from talking heads who took what he said out of context. Looking around for the actual quote, I found this article which pretty much sums up the whole issue
Pearl Harbor, 9-11 and Nick Saban.
I am about to type eight words I never thought I would. Certainly not in this exact sequence:
People need to get off Nick Saban’s back.
During his Monday press conference, Saban referenced 9-11 and Pearl Harbor while discussing the problems afflicting the Alabama Crimson Tide football program . Coming off consecutive upset defeats against Mississippi State and Louisiana-Monroe, Saban was trying to explain how people tend to rally around difficult situations.
“Changes in history usually occur after some catastrophic event,‘’ Saban said. "It may be 9-11, which sort of changed the spirit of America relative to a catastrophic event. Pearl Harbor got us ready, you know, for World War II, or whatever, and that was a catastrophic event. ’’
This, of course, caused ESPN and assorted other outlets to go into a shrieking, politically-correct, how-dare-he-say-such-a-thing? tizzy. Go ahead, listen to Saban for yourself. If you don’t understand that Saban wasn’t likening a football to tragedies that killed thousands, then you either have an axe to grind against him or your comprehension skills are sadly lacking.
Saban was merely making the point than in the context of the Alabama football program, it has just been through a catastrophic event. Sometimes, Saban explained, it takes the toughest of times to compel people to take meaningful action.
“They talk about alcoholics and people like that who never ever change until they hit rock bottom,’’ Saban said. "Well, they change because when they hit rock bottom they have an awareness, they have an acceptance and a commitment to change.
“That’s what our players need to do right now because in the past two weeks since the LSU game, I haven’t seen the same spirit, I haven’t seen the same work ethic. That’s something we’ve got to get right.’’
The biggest mistake Saban made was giving his audience credit for having a modicum of intelligence and comprehension skills. The resulting PC frenzy led Alabama to release a statement clarifying Saban’s intent.
Get a grip, folks. The mere mention of 9-11 does not constitute trivializing a tragedy. On this point, at least, people need to get off Nick Saban’s back.
http://blogs.chron.com/stevecampbell/2007/11/pearl_harbor_911_and_nick_saba_1.html
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
I love it!
Two Alabama fans on a Texas board arguing with each other. I hope to see more of this dissension later in the week.
Not an Alabama fan
Remember, this is the Florida fan who is adopting Alabama because it is the Es-Ee-See thing to do.
by TheElusiveShadow on Jan 3, 2010 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
equate: consider or describe as similar, equal, or analogous
analogous: similar or equivalent in some respects though otherwise dissimilar
Saban was merely making the point than in the context of the Alabama football program, it has just been through a catastrophic event
Pearl Harbor got us ready, you know, for World War II, or whatever, and that was a catastrophic event.
It may be 9-11, which sort of changed the spirit of America relative to a catastrophic event.
I feel like equate is the right word here. While I don’t think they were necessarily bad comparisons, I don’t think you should go jumping on someone’s back and accusing them of being unknowledgeable. I think Saban was just trying to prove a point, and he may have tried a little too hard. It’s understandable that some people took the comment the wrong way, as most people agree that losing two straight football games isn’t as catastrophic as an attack on American soil.
oh come on. This is ridiculous. First off, the word equate implies a greater level of similarity than other words which describe comparisons between different objects. I don’t know what two bit dictionary you got those definitions from, but here’s the definition in the M. Webster
1 a : to make equal : equalize b : to make such an allowance or correction in as will reduce to a common standard or obtain a correct result
2 : to treat, represent, or regard as equal, equivalent, or comparable
How can you say that equate is the right word when there exists other substitutes that covey a lesser degree of direct equality between the objects being compared unless you’re objective is to falsely exaggerate the so called “comparison” Saban made? Furthermore, by the logic which you were applying, simply using the same adjective to describe separate events is to equate them. That is beyond ridiculous.
It’s understandable that some people took the comment the wrong way, as most people agree that losing two straight football games isn’t as catastrophic as an attack on American soil.
This sentence made me laugh. How does not agreeing with something that wasn’t said make it “understandable” to distort what was said and take offense?
The bottom line is that Saban didn’t even compare the loss to 9/11 or Pearl Harbor except by the very loosest of standards. There was nothing stated, implied, or intended which any reasonable person could object to.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
eh...
I just used google define, and went with the first website (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=equate). It’s a decent dictionary, but I admit I don’t do my best work at 4 in the morning. Still, even your dictionary puts in the word comparable, so I stand by the fact that equate is used correctly.
Back to the main point, I agree that Saban wasn’t directly comparing the tragedy of 9/11 or Pearl Harbor to the tragedy of losing a game, but he was comparing how those events affected America to how he hoped the losses would affect his team. Again, I don’t think it was a bad comparison or that it trivialized the tragedies, but it is a comparison nonetheless. All I was saying is that the quote, even in context, can be easily taken the wrong way, which it was by many people.
Your sentence made me laugh. Why does everything have to be stated for people to take offense? Who said we’re dealing with reasonable people? We’re talking about the American public, and especially avid college football fans, the most selectively irrational people on the planet!
The only reason I even responded was because you called Robertpz’s comment stupid when it was obviously just an inflammatory hyperbole. It was made to illicit a reaction, and you proved that it worked.
I’d say that latching onto a single word in the definition (which happens to imply the least strength of comparison) and disregarding the rest is disingenuous.
Not to mention that using the part of the definition which you would like to, it’s still true that Saban did not to treat, represent, or regard a football game as comparable to Pear Harbor or 9/11. You admit as much yourself.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
I disagree that just because it’s the last part of the definition that it’s not a valid use of the word. And again, yes I agree that he didn’t say Pearl Harbor or 9/11were the exact same as the game, but that he compared the effects. He treated them as analogous events and hoped they had similar effects. So yes, he equated them to each other. Still, just because someone takes something a little different from the quote as you or I do doesn’t make them stupid.
Make no mistake...
Bama fans have a ton of respect for Mack Brown. The subject of “Best coaches in all of football” is a pretty frequent topic of discussion here, both in the media and just in personal settings…and Mack Brown’s name is always, always, always one of the first two or three names mentioned. He deserves every penny of the raise he got recently, as he’s been one of the vanguard coaches in the game for years now.
We love coach Saban, don’t get me wrong. There is nobody else I’d rather have coaching my team- coach Saban’s approach to the game, his football mentality, is such a perfect fit for Alabama…quite honestly the way he approaches coaching reminds me rather a lot of a certain ursine coach from our past, and that’s a damn good comparison. That being said, Mack Brown has the respect of every man, woman, and child who wears Crimson, too. One of the things I’m looking forward to the most in this game is the coaching battle between these two great coaches and their respective assistants.
"You have to create six seconds of hell, every time the ball is snapped..."
-Nick Saban
Math FAIL
Robertpz, you portray Saban’s 5 out of 14 double-digit win seasons as an “overall” reason he should not be ’getting love."
You later point to Mack Brown’s 12 out of 22 double-digit win seasons as evidence that he is a better coach compared to Saban.
If MB is in his ninth straight 10+ win season (as you say), then after fourteen seasons of coaching college football, he claimed one fewer double-digit winning season than Saban can at the same point in his career.
Oh yeah, and they both have the same number of BCS national championships (1), while Saban has 3 SEC championships to his name compared to Mack’s two Big XII titles.
They’re both pretty damn good, wouldn’t you say?
Lee Corso: How would you describe tailgating at Alabama?
Kirk Herbstreit: Barbecue and Ralph Lauren
Bama Fan Not Worried with Mack
No worries about anyone stepping on to the field Thursday. Classless article. I believe Saban left the NFL because of the arrogance and attitudes in the NFL. The college young men still have much to lose if they don’t submit to leadership at UA. That is a different story in the NFL. Saban has the ability to transfer a player to his maximum potential.
Now it's a party...
Nick Saban is smart enough of a guy to know you don’t use 9/11 and World War II to make a point about getting your butt blown-up by a minor Div I school. Wait did I say “blown up”? Equate or not, it was a poor choice, but obviously it helped rally the ’Bama cause because just look what it a fews years later. Nice to see that works…
I just hope Saban doesn’t try to invoke images of when the Seinfeld cast appeared on “Curb Your Ethusiasm” or when milk was over $3 a gallon when Texas beats them in a few days. I’m not sure about the abudance of HBO or bottled milk in Alabama, but I’m sure it would be something to rally around when mass chaos occurs after Thursday night…
Hook ’em…
"I've never gone into a game trying to win the Heisman Trophy; I go into a game trying to win." - Colt McCoy
Think y'all forget
how so many of you have felt about the way ESPN has portraid Leach over the past weeks in the name of ratings.
The same was done with Saban on several occasions which is why he truely dislikes the media. If you were in his shoes or Mac Browns shoes what might you say that would turn the rabid dog in ESPN on you all in the light of higher ratings.
'Mark Ingram' is the Heisman Winner!
I disagree with the comment...
regarding the "Cadillac" that Saban inherited. To assist in proving my point, just look at the recruiting statistics.
Since Rivals has begun keeping up with "Stars" and teams rankings in 2002, 5 years were before Saban, and 4 (including 2010) are since. Here’s what we’ve got:
2002-2006 – Average Star Rating of 3.16 and average final recruiting rank of 25th.
2007-2010 – Average Star Rating of 3.63 and average final recruiting rank of 3rd (assuming Bama stays at 2nd for the 2010 class).
2002-2006 – 3 Five Star Recruits, 28 Four Star Recruits.
2007-2010 – 9 Five Star Recruits, 55 Four Star Recruits (and that’s not including 3 spots left for the 2010 class).
So with all this, I’d have to disagree that Saban inherited much talent at all.
And also, I know that stars and class rankings are not an exact science, but I’d challenge anyone to go to Rivals, take note of the top recruiting classes of each year, and see how that team did 3 and 4 years later (i.e. Texas was #1 in 2002). As it turns out, these rankings are a decent predictor of future success.
Can’t wait until Thursday; looking forward to a great game. Cheers!
"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success" - Coach Bryant
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