NCAA: Gives gifts to Auburn & tOSU, but biggest gift is actually to USC
by Wrangler86 on Dec 26, 2010 7:18 PM CST
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PrintCam Newton Ruling contradicts USC ruling-helps USC
Tattoo gate completes Hail Mary Appeal for USC
Yes, the NCAA is sly as a fox. I don't think for one second that the rulings on Cam Newton's "pay for play" and Terrelle Pryor's" tattoogate" are being made in a vacuum. These new rulings contradict almost everything the NCAA ruled in regards to USC and Reggie Bush. The new rulings make absolutely no sense, unless you look at the bigger picture which I believe is something more like this: The NCAA is about to roll on its back, throw its legs in the air, and take a submissive pose for USC's upcoming appeal of its sanctions scheduled to start in less than one month. Please don't let the NCAA's previous display of teeth to USC confuse you--as it did me. I thought it was for real, but now I know it was all bark. As they say in any criminal case--follow the Money. The same holds true in regards to the NCAA's self-serving rulings. Follow the money and it will probably explain the rulings.
USC has stated repeatedly that the NCAA told them that "the parents are the same as the player." So, taking money by the parent is the same as the student-athlete doing it. Well, now we know that isn't necessarily the case if you are the Newtons and your team is about to play in the SEC championship game and MNC. Could it be that the SEC and the NCAA are protecting their own financial interests by ignoring the evidence presented by Miss. State? I mean, why wouldn't the NCAA and SEC want Auburn to play and make them millions?
In the USC ruling, the NCAA held that USC's claim that the institution didn't know about the Bush family mansion was irrelevant, because when a "star" athlete is on your team you have a duty to pay extra attention to his actions. You can't ignore that new Impala with thousand dollar rims, or the fact that the kid's parents suddenly moved on up to the penthouse in the sky. No, you have to pay extra special attention....and failure to monitor the star player resulted in USC being banned from bowl games and losing scholarships. The NCAA called that lack of institutional control. They said bad, bad USC and they threw the book at them and Reggie Bush. Heck, he is so bad that he isn't even allowed to go onto campus anymore.
But, lucky for USC, now we know that Terrelle Pryor and his tatttoed gang have used a newly created defense to avoid the "harsh" punishment of missing out on a once in a lifetime opportunity to play in the Sugar Bowl. Allegedly, the Ohio State University did not properly advise the Pryor gang of five about the "do's and don'ts" of selling your persona and jerseys. If only AJ Green knew about this defense...but I digress. The NCAA has held that because of this "we didn't know" defense the tOSU players should not be penalized and suspended in the Sugar Bowl, which also coincidentally nets them millions of dollars. You see, the NCAA calls this a "mitigating circumstance." Interesting, very interesting indeed this "mitigating circumstance defense." But wait a second--if this is true, then didn't tOSU just admit that it committed an NCAA institutional violation by NOT advising their players of the rules. Didn't they fail the NCAA test of paying extra special attention to their star athletes? So shouldn't tOSU be given the same punishment handed out earlier to their rival USC? And shouldn't the entire tOSU football team, and not just the Pryor gang of five, be looking at the loss of many scholarships and NOT playing bowl games for several years just like USC? I don't recall the NCAA making a special exception for USC to play in a bowl game because it is a once in a lifetime opportunity. What gives with the double standards?
All of this made absolutely no sense to me, and since I have plenty of time on my hands here at the in-laws' house in Bama with no cable television I had plenty of time to stew on this in between stuffing my face with wonderful food.
I kept asking myself the same question, why now? Why now would the NCAA come up with this bizarre ruling for tOSU when the offenses happened in 2009? Couldn't they have waited a few more days until after the Sugar Bowl? That would give them an easy out and not expose their greedy side in allowing ineligible players a pass to play in a bowl game. Surely holding the ruling in-house for a few more days is better than making up a completely bogus exception which would surely draw laughter from any sane football fan.
Think about it. Why did Cam Newton get ruled ineligible for one day and immediately reinstated in time to play the SEC championship game within 24 hours? Why did T. Pryor and gang get suspended--starting next year--but given a pass in order to play in the Sugar Bowl this year? And, why, oh sweet baby Jesus, why did the NCAA announce its ruling against tOSU now? Couldn't they have just layed low for a few more days?
Then it dawned on me-January 22, 2011. Time is ticking and USC is about to present their appeal to the NCAA, and they certainly do have a lot of "appeal" in terms of generating big dollars for the NCAA in television sales and bowl games. Merry Christmas USC, you just got everything on your Christmas list. Your future bowl bans and loss of scholarships will likely get reduced to be more in line with Auburn's and tOSU's punishments. That bad news--Reggie Bush will be suspended for 5 games in 2011. I hope that isn't too harsh for you.
The NCAA (an alleged non-profit) is again putting their own profitability ahead of doing the right thing by its blatant failure to fairly apply and administer its own rules. Football fans deserve better from the NCAA. And, the other NCAA member teams certainly deserve better and should be demanding more uniform and logical regulation of their competing member schools. Money still rules the day, and perhaps Mark Cuban can rescue this ship of fools.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. My relatives thank you for not having to listen to my rant.
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i agree with everything you said.
The NCAA is as crooked as it comes and this proves it beyond any doubt.
Thanks.
Sometimes I think I’m the crazy one since the NCAA gets away with this stuff repeatedly. I really felt like venting but wanted to spare my family on x-mas day. Can you imagine how happy the USC attorneys are? And how many dirty schools are going to increase their efforts. And how many poor kids are going to take the risk now? I read that Tressel is furious with the players and I wonder if he is man enough to bench them in a symbolic way for the start or something? Would be a helluv a move and would also be a show of character which the NCAA clearly doesn’t have.
Death to the BCS
Read it, asap. I’m in the middle of it and while so far it hasn’t dealt with any sanction issues it’s all about $$$. I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on it.
Interesting
I’d take it one step farther.
I wonder what in USC’s appeal the NCAA did not want revealed. If the appeal is basically penalty reduction, in line with the cases discussed above, there won’t be any court papers or forced public explanations of NCAA operating and decision-making.
Sure is helpful to be able to change the rules to fit the circumstances of the moment.
I mostly agree...
But selling things you own =! getting paid by an agent while playing at USC.
Bush wasn't paid by an agent
he and his family were paid by a guy who wanted to create a marketing firm to represent him, and the firm included his father
what Cecil Newton attempted to do, trying to sell his son like a slave to the highest bidder, is really much more nefarious
False under the presumptive argument:
Selling your son like a slave to the highest bidder = glorified marketing.
Selling your son like a slave to the highest bidder is akin to creating a marketing firm representing said son with said faither as firm member (albeit on vastly different scales of complexity).
Papa Bush is no less nefarious than Papa Newton.
by Old Ironpants on Jan 3, 2011 4:59 PM CST up reply actions
FLAGGED!
(conjecture! opinions, schminions! ! ! !)
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Jan 3, 2011 8:33 PM CST up reply actions
Important connections, Wrangler.
I edited one word in your post…if AJ new to if AJ knew…added tags and connections to the overall blog, plus the time update…that’s why it looks as if it was just published. I think it deserves the attention and should be our the conversation.
hook ’em
Thanks whills
I’ve always been a talker not a writer, so I appreciate the editing and comments. I didn’t know you were so “connected.” Hook ‘em and let’s look forward to 2011.
How does it benefit the NCAA for T pryor to play in the Sugar bowl? The NCAA has no connection with any of the bowl games.
Seriously, they are actually all one and the same when you pull back the onion layers
I agree with this—
http://meadvilletribune.com/sports/x480666652/NCAA-shows-whos-in-charge
“Ohio State still has a game this year. On Jan. 4, the Buckeyes will play Arkansas in the Sugar Bowl, which I would like to note is a BCS game. Why were these five players not suspended for this game?
I will tell you why. By suspending all five players for the Sugar Bowl, it could put Ohio State at a competitive disadvantage. The line on the game would be altered immensely because of that, completely tossing Las Vegas into a frenzy. It would also make the game less attractive to viewers.
Less viewers hurts the advertisers. If the advertisers are hurt, they are not going to pay the broadcast companies as much to advertise for that game. The broadcast companies are going to want some of their money back from the BCS.
And who do you think gets that money?
The schools that participate on the field. Or, in other words, the same people who are in charge of the BCS and the NCAA. If you connect the dots, you can see that the NCAA does not want to hurt the Sugar Bowl because it takes money out of their pocket.
So, the NCAA is suspending five players for making a little money. But the players are not being suspending until next year so the NCAA will not lose any of its BCS money." Per above link.
See also,
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Answers/Nine+points+to+consider_one
and
fantastic write up
and i just emailed my Ohio State buddy asking him, of all people, why the hell USC has 22 pledges right now when they have a 30 scholarship reduction on their hands. shouldn’t that be around 15 at the most? i guess they’re feeling pretty confident.
"you can destroy a man, but you cannot defeat him." - e.h.
Thanks
Sports writers are putting pressure on Tressel to live up to his high standard from his initial press conference when he first started at tOSU. They are trying to pressure him to bench the players involved. It will be interesting to see what he does. I am betting that they do not get the starts and then come in on the next seriers. What do you think?
i bet they play every snap.
morales always seem to go out the window real damn fast when millions of dollars are on the line. i was have the highest regard for the vest if he sit them for a half or more but any penalty less would not surprise me at all, i actually expect one series or nothing.
by dukeoforange on Dec 28, 2010 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
The Pryor gang
They gave a formal apology to the press today so I guess we will see if that is all “the vest” will require.
meh
i saw the reply it was as noncommittal and generic as any other apology i’ve ever heard so no surprise there.
by dukeoforange on Dec 29, 2010 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
Don't know if that is a per class reduction or per overall (85).
Seniors fulfilling their eligibility and transfers out of the program create the size limit of incoming signees. It could be some variability within those parameters that accounts for those 22 pledges.
With the exact penalty, you can probably be able to deduce how they got that number.
USC Scholarship Numbers
The sanctions against USC have not taken effect as they are under appeal. USC and the NCAA discussed the situation and the NCAA agreed that the result of the appeal would not come until after this year’s recruiting class signs on February 1st. Therefore USC can take a full class up to the 85 scholarship limit this year. USC already had very low scholarship numbers going into the 2010 season. We only had 53 scholarship players on our road trip to Stanford this year! Our numbers were low due to under recruiting by Pete Carroll his last couple years. Add to that that we lost a handful of players to “transfer without having to sit out” rules the NCAA imposed with the sanctions. Since USC has a small current scholarship roster (around 55 right now) coupled with the fact that USC had a fairly small recruiting class in 2010, USC is able to sign up to and around 10 early enrollees (they start school in January) which are applied to the 2010 class. Plus USC can take a full 25 scholarship class for 2011. Add it all up and USC is able to take up to 35 players (including early enrollees) right now and get itself up to an 85 scholarship roster heading into 2011.
If the appeal is denied, starting with the 2012 class, USC will only be able to have 75 players on scholarship for 3 years…PLUS give out a max 15 players per year. At best, if the appeal is successful, USC will be able to have a max 80 players on scholarship and give out a max 20 (vs 25) scholarships per year for 3 years starting in 2012. USC has only requested that the sanctions be cut in half, so that is the most that USC will get.
I will add that many close to the situation at USC are not confident that the sanctions will be reduced. I hope the blogger here is right as far as them getting reduced. The previous standard the NCAA imposed for sanctions was 2 scholarships lost for every player involved. That would equate to USC losing only 2 scholarships….not 30!!!! Paul Dee, chairman of the committee on infractions (and former University of Miami AD who was AD when Miami got hit with their big sanctions) explained the harsh punishment by saying Reggie Bush was a high profile player and that they estimated Reggie Bush was singularly responsible for attracting another 30 sholarship athletes to USC….huh??? I think Matt Leinart, Lendale White, and a host of other Bush teammates would disagree. The fact is, the NCAA can make up any crap it wants to either go harsh on a school or easy on a school. It all boils down to conflicts of interest (such as having a Notre Dame administrator on the committee on infractions against USC).
USC also had 13 freshman redshirt last season and will have at least 7 do it this year, we will be back on top next year.
Hopefully Texas will be to and we meet in a bowl for some fun.
As a owner of a VW Touareg and putting countless expensive repairs over 3 years, please don't buy their product. Their corporation doesn't give a damn about there customers even if you spent 55,000 on their Vehicle.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jan 6, 2011 4:45 PM CST up reply actions
USC is docked 10 per yr over 3 yrs
but, the sanctions are stayed pending appeal. and, we have room for 10 EEs due to a class of 15 in 2010. anyway, USC will take about 27 or 28 to target a roster of 80. we were already low pre-sanction because PC was so picky, and we lost a lot of transfers after sanctions announcement.
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
Why USC has 22 pledges right now
USC will only be allowed 15 recruits in the class of 2011 and can only have 75 on scholarship. However since USC did not take their full 25 last year they can take Early Enrollees that will be registered and attending USC in January of 2011 and they will count towards their 2010 recruiting class.
by Jeremy Schmick on Jan 2, 2011 5:18 PM CST up reply actions
The T. Pryor story is the gift that keeps on giving.
The Sugar Bowl admits that they lobbied tOSU and the Big Ten asking them to lobby the NCAA to keep the Pryor Gang eligible.
Everyone knows that two wrongs do not make a right.
SC's pass from the NCAA
When the NCAA gives SC the middle finger on the 22nd of January, will you revise your story? The common thread that is consistent with the NCAA is their assertion that they are not accountable to anyone except themselves. Their inconsistencies is their way of proving they are above it all. It all goes back to the congressional ruling that gave the NCAA an exemption to due process.
Quibbles...
You can’t ignore that new Impala with thousand dollar rims, or the fact that the kid’s parents suddenly moved on up to the penthouse in the sky.
The impala wasn’t New. The rims came later and they lived rent free for 6 months or so in an average part of town.
’SC will more than likely lose the appeal.
Then the fun starts…
A few mistaken facts...
First, Reggie did not have a “new Impala”. It was a 1996 Impala with nice rims. It was 9 years old when he got it. He was made fun of by much of the team and coaching staff for driving an “old man’s car”.
Next, Reggie’s parents’ “mansion in the sky” was a house in Spring Valley, California. It is a very nondescript working-class community about 125 miles from USC. Since all homes in California were going for outrageous prices at the time, the home was valued at $750,000. The Bush’s neighbors were like them….normal two income families (Reggie’s mother was a deputy sheriff, the stepdad a minister and also worked at a school). They simply did not stand out.
There wasn’t a lot to suspect from Bush. He was a good student from what was thought to be a good family that was not poor.
All the above was ignored in the media while they were sensationalizing the story, so I am not suprised this blogger is repeating it.
Media sensationalism?
Now that’s something new and different.
See ya later, alligator.
by Paleface Horn on Dec 30, 2010 4:51 PM CST up reply actions
Plus one
and, the home was sold by Mike Michaels after the socal real estate crash for $450k, I believe. I think you were mocking the NCAA, but this was not a “mansion”, and as stated, the Bushes were merely deadbeat renters.
Also, it was a used ‘95 Impala. The car magazine actually paid to beef it up before it made the cover, and that was AFTER Reggie had declared for the draft. The media and NCAA act like it was a fancy car. It was a non-descript ’95 Impala when Reggie bought it that wouldn’t get a 2nd look on the USC or UT campus. Now, Mark Ingram and Dre Kirkpatrick’s cars are fancy:
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
Glad to see you Trojan fans over here
But you sure are taking all the fun out of my post. In the south we don’t let a few facts get in the way of a good story. Just kidding.
We can quibble over the term “new car” and whether a $450K house is a mansion or not. Most Texans would consider a $450K house pretty dang upscale—but you folks have some high priced real estate out there. If you didn’t own a car and then you get one, people generally say, “check out my new car.”
The NCAA posted a response to the storm of criticism arising from the Pryor and Newton rulings and they suggest that these are two entirely diffrent situations from the USC rulings. I’m not buying it. But, now that they have been so publically heckled by most of the media and fans, they have a no win situation with USC. I’m not sure what will happen now, but I sure hope USC sues them if the NCAA doesn’t apply a consistent and fair punishment in line with these other stupid rulings. I also don’t know if the NCAA has the final say, but I would think any ruling could be challenged in federal court.
The fact that the Sugar Bowl lobbied tOSU and the Big 10 to lobby the NCAA for the delay in punishment is really pathetic. What about the players? Is it really in Pryor’s best interest to play in the Sugar Bowl this year and make lots of money for them, but miss 5 games next season. Or is better for him to miss this game, and be able to play more in his final year and have a better chance of playing enough to make a run at the Heisman and show the NFL scouts that he is ready. The NCAA has become a complete joke. The Sugar Bowl has also cancelled some press conferences in light of the controversy.
We agree that the NCAA is a corrupt joke
Yeah, thanks for your opinion on the subject. 99% of non-USC fans don’t really understand our sanctions, but you grasp them better than most. Props to you.
The $450k house was a rental for the Bushes though. Remember that. MSM still stubbornly states that the Bushes were given a house. They were not. They had a rental agreement and lived there for 7 months while stiffing the landlord on the rent. They were never given or owned that house.
One of the interesting points of the NCAA corruption is the inconsistency among different divisions. The NCAA will explain that the OSU and Auburn cases were handled by the Eligibility group. The USC case was handled by the Enforcement group. Apparently, these committees never talk, or use the same rule book?!? The Enforcement group famously stated that high profile athletes, like Reggie Bush, require high profile compliance. But, the Eligibility group sure as hell didn’t apply this standard to Cammy Cam or Terrelle Pryor, did they? Needless to say, the Chair of the Committee on Infractions is Paul Dee, the AD at The U during the 2nd worst infractions case on the books since SMU. You should read some of Paul Dee’s quotes as AD back then in defense of his program. It will blow your mind. And, of course, Missy Conboy, Associate AD of USC’s biggest football rival whom we had beaten 8 years in a row, Notre Dame, is a prominent committee member who was most agressive during the hearing. USC got lynched by corruption.
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
Plus it wasn't even a Impala SS which would fetch 15-20,000 at the time, it was just a cheap one 5,000.
As a owner of a VW Touareg and putting countless expensive repairs over 3 years, please don't buy their product. Their corporation doesn't give a damn about there customers even if you spent 55,000 on their Vehicle.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jan 6, 2011 4:49 PM CST up reply actions
There is a difference
As much as I dislike the Cam Newton ruling, if it is that, I have to say that there are some key differences between the two cases:
1. Newton’s father, as far as we know, did not receive any money from anyone. The evidence suggests that he solicited it but there is no evidence to suggest that he received any money. This is in stark contrast to Reggie Bush whose family actually received somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 to 400K. That’s a lot of scratch. Which brings up another point, where do you draw the line when it comes to an agent or runner paying off a family member or friend? Do you pop the parents? What happens when an aunt or uncle, brother or sister are paid? This situation is trickier than we could imagine.
2. There is no evidence that Newton’s father or anyone for that matter than shared the wealth with Cam himself. In order to punish the school, the player has to benefit and then give the school some indication that something is going on. Regardless of what you think about how this happened at SC, the NCAA still based its ruling there on Bush getting benefits and SC supposedly ignoring that fact when they should have conducted an investigation.
The difference in the two situations is important from the perspective of what the school knew and what they did about it. I have to admit that Newton should not be playing in the BCS Championship game or the tOSU players should not be allowed to play. However, given the problem, the only standard capable of being enforced is one based on the school’s perspective because the school is the only entity that has some accountability.
Ultimately, SC will see at least one year of sanctions because that is what they are asking for. You can’t get less than what you ask for but you can get what you want as per the appeal: A punishment that boils down to half of what was originally proposed by the NCAA.
EGO TROIORUM MALLEUS SUM
The good Bishop Cecil Newton
I think it is really a stretch and a wrong holding for the NCAA to say that it is OK for an athlete’s guardian to request money from a school, as long as the kid doesn’t end up at that school.
Also, the fact that Cecil Newton’s church had been scheduled for demolition after several years of delays, and then he miraculous received the money to upgrade the church needs to be explained. The NCAA has either failed to properly investigate it, or they have delayed the investigation until after the SEC and MNC championship games on purpose.
The SEC and Auburn were on notice of the alelgations against the Newtons but continued to play him. Then, Auburun holds him inelligible and they him reinstated in one day. I can’t remember anyone else getting that kind of rapid reinstatment, and if he was “inelligible” on that day he should have been inelgible from the start of the season because Auburn and the SEC knew about the claims made by Miss. State the whole time.
As I said
I think it’s crooked and needs to be punished. Seriously this is going to get uglier as time goes by. I don’t think our friends across town are the only ones capable of missteps.
I like amateur athletics but we are lurching towards some sort semi-professionalism. What do we do allow football and basketball players to get paid… Then what? The NCAA needs to come up with some real rules and enforce them as equally as possible or else quit pretending.
EGO TROIORUM MALLEUS SUM
by Bruins102NCAA on Dec 31, 2010 9:24 PM CST up reply actions
I have to join BON to respond to Bruins102
The NCAA do not have evidence of $200 – $400K, where do you get yours?
The payout to Michael Michaels was supposedly in lieu of the free rent, hardly any evidence of being paid that amount of money. The house that Michaels bought and allowed the Griffins residence in hardly makes USC cheaters and in fact, only supposes an ineligibility issue. The payout to Lake was what Reggie Bush should have done from the get go. But Lake was looking for millions at first- and settled once he knew he wouldn’t get a dime more than what he supposedly utilized to lure LaMarr Griffin from the beginning.
You still like to call Pete Carroll “Cheaty Petey”, but you still have no grounds to base that on.
And yet, if the NCAA can qualify a “didn’t know” basis for justification on questionable players, how come they couldn’t afford the same basis in “not knowing about the Griffins who lived over 150 miles away from USC’s campus” for clean administrators in USC’s case? The COI was selective and malicious in handing down sanctions, even a reasonable person such as yourself Bruins102 can reach for that, no?
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Dec 31, 2010 2:29 PM CST up reply actions
As I remember
What McNair knew or didn’t know was the crux of the NCAA case. There is no “evidence” in any real sense of the word for any of this, not when people are be paid to withdraw their claims. Were Lake, Ornstein, or Michaels ever depoed under oath? It’s pure speculation on our part now that all is said and done.
EGO TROIORUM MALLEUS SUM
by Bruins102NCAA on Dec 31, 2010 9:31 PM CST up reply actions
This isn't a court of law, and this link comes from a 'SC centric blog
I’ll let you and this audience determine the veracity of this piece. Mind you, these guys still have libel and slander legalities that they must watch when writing these pieces. It’s not like Rivals’ is willing to publish/post a piece that’s full of bull shit.
This article speaks to the heart of you argument.
As far as speculation Bruins102, if you understand and further, believe in your own words- why write here on Burnt Orange Nation that Bush/Griffins got paid $200K – $400K to begin with.
Sounds a bit like gamemanship, bro? When it comes to a star player like Reggie Bush and a quality coach like Coach McNair- I must say as a Trojan: how dare you?
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Jan 1, 2011 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
[frick!]
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Jan 1, 2011 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
I have to say
I love the way Bix writes.
The problem with all of this is that it is speculation. We will never know the full truth of what went down. I stand by my estimation of what Bush/parents received. According to Yahoo Sports (which I’m sure most SC fans do not give a lick about) “…Michaels and Watkins lost more than $300,000 in money advanced to Bush and his family and in start-up costs for the company.” Now what that exactly means is hard to say. I don’t care to speculate anymore because it is done and that is the most charitable thing anyone can say about this matter. I think that Pat Hayden is doing a fine job moving on and I have great respect for him.
For informative purposes only, I would think that McNair would have a hard time proving libel/slander being that he is conceivably a public figure and this is a matter of public concern. That means that the New York Times v. Sullivan constitutional considerations factor in along with the common law defamation elements. A plaintiff would have to prove falsity and fault in addition to defamatory language of and concerning the plaintiff, publication thereof by the defendant to a third person, and damages. If McNair is determined to be a public figure, he would have to prove “actual malice” on the part of the NCAA. So I’m sitting here thinking who I would depo for this, here’s my short list: Pete Carroll, Michaels, Ornstein, and Lake. Regardless of what we think, such a suit would amount to a continuous and large amount of bad publicity for the university. Once again, everything I just stated was for informative purposes only, I am not anyone’s attorney nor was an attorney-client confidentiality privilege formed by any of my statements.
Here’s what is going to happen as far as I can figure. SC is going to be punished either with the original sanctions or what SC themselves asked for which I believe amounts to half of what the NCAA proposed. They are going to get this over with as soon as possible. I believe, and I’m not sure, nothing would prevent McNair from bringing a suit but he hasn’t already for those obvious reasons listed above. When all is said and done, whoever is the “guilty” party isn’t going to “pay” but rather the university will be punished. This is a shame.
I’ll see you guys over at CC if you want to argue this more. Thank you BON for your tolerance.
EGO TROIORUM MALLEUS SUM
by Bruins102NCAA on Jan 1, 2011 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
Thank Bruins102
I admire most about you is your grace under fire and utmost respect when writing on other blogs. (I’ve seen your “passion” on BN, and don’t care much about it, but it’s neither here nor there).
You do your Bruins proud, my man. I’d definitely have drinks with you- (*Cheaty-Petey words, watch for it, watch for it:) Anytime, Anyplace!
Happy New Year to you, friend!
PS: Do you still have your bike? Mine’s up and running. In October, I went on a Death Valley run and the chip started to malfunction. It’s all sorted, now. But- it cost me close to 5-bills to get a chip replacement, it was the bike’s “history” that cost so much- as far as technical stuff. The chip-set and mfr. cover that encases it was damaged somehow. Never put the bike down and it’s in a secure position. Every tech thinks it’s a heat, rain, or dust issue- even though it’s air-, water-, and moisture-tight??? The bike still flies, put a new fatty on the back and an all-terrain front. The new-issue tires were for street only. I like to ride this little beotch off-road (uneven, part paved/part dirt roads- never “trail riding”), in the snow, and because I commute on it- in the rain. If you are still riding: ride safely my man. Lotsa crazies on the road, you know?
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Jan 1, 2011 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks Bix
Lotsa crazies for sure. Haven’t been riding in a while, some of my favorite roads have been closed and it’s sort of cold and wet here as you know. My bike has been acting up too. The one front blinkers stays on solid or blinks when it shouldn’t. That’s supposed to be sealed too. Thing about bikes is if I let every electrical problem or buzz I heard get to me, I could never ride. But we ride for those days where you sit taller in the saddle because it is God’s own transportation and the wind and pure power of the machine are all you need. Happy New Year and safe riding.
EGO TROIORUM MALLEUS SUM
by Bruins102NCAA on Jan 1, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
SoCal Treehuggin' Greenie just spotted! No worries, Austinites can relate.
Nancy Pelosi is your co-pilot….
But we ride for those days where you sit taller in the saddle because it is God’s own transportation and the wind and pure power of the machine are all you need.
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
Yeah I got a sidecar for her
And Bill Clinton rides on back.
EGO TROIORUM MALLEUS SUM
by Bruins102NCAA on Jan 2, 2011 5:40 AM CST up reply actions
Dude get rid of the electrical stuff on your bike and computer too unless it is a altimeter, riding at least 3,000 feet gained a week will make you a stud.
Riding at night is not good unless you like to live dangerously, people will not see you even tough you have a light. If you have to ride at night find a large business park and do laps, try to do sprints of 2-5 minutes to build speed and legs. I don’t know where you live but do hills every other day with flats the day between. Don’t worry about miles just time and try to improve on time then make the ride longer next time.
As a owner of a VW Touareg and putting countless expensive repairs over 3 years, please don't buy their product. Their corporation doesn't give a damn about there customers even if you spent 55,000 on their Vehicle.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jan 6, 2011 5:03 PM CST up reply actions
We're talking about my Buell motorcycle
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Jan 7, 2011 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
Opps never mind
As a owner of a VW Touareg and putting countless expensive repairs over 3 years, please don't buy their product. Their corporation doesn't give a damn about there customers even if you spent 55,000 on their Vehicle.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jan 7, 2011 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
Why not a Ducati Monster?
It’s the Italian in me love those bikes but a buell is pretty close. My friend has 2 vintage (1960s) BMWs that are cafe style, plus my cousin makes custom magnetos and he use to have a Ducati shop in the late 50s—60s. Honda approached him and to become the first dealer and he said nah I only do Italian, he then told them to talk to his buddy Norm Reeves. His bother used to race at the old Ascot dirt track in Gardena, but he crash hard one time and had a limp rest of his life, he did become a engineer for caltrans and also was co-owner in Magneto Shop.
As a owner of a VW Touareg and putting countless expensive repairs over 3 years, please don't buy their product. Their corporation doesn't give a damn about there customers even if you spent 55,000 on their Vehicle.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jan 7, 2011 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
I went from (as far as road m-bikes):
A Kawi GPZ 305 (16 yrs old)
Kawi GPZ 750
Suzuki GSX-R 600
BMW K-75 (got into a cross-country traveling kick)
Ducati 749S (the 848 is a BIG bike, had this 749 simultaneous to the K75)
Buell XBRR
Dude, this Buell blows away my Duke by miles in any gear! Dust’s it’s ass. Now- if I had a 999 Duke it wouldn’t be a race but. . . .I wouldn’t be able to make any turns on the Ducati. Straightaway flat out speed it IS A MONSTER (like the 848). But I’ve ridden 848’s and on a course, the 848 “high-sides” on me- I’m @ 178 now and this Buell is, at times, too big for Angeles Crest. I like to go fast, but I’m not stupid. (at least, anymore ;- )
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Jan 7, 2011 6:42 PM CST up reply actions
BTW: I have a Saris PowerTap on my TT bike
Standard Garmin cyclometer/SRM- device on my Alero (Guerciotti).
These computers are necessary for WATT-age training. I now measure wattage for practically EVERY workout: strength training, Kata-training, Jiu-jitsu workouts, . . . .hell- even yoga/stretching. Not so much “power” per se, but output/exertion measured in speed/time rather than “joule” energy expense. I measure it depending on exercise and duration and custom fit the workouts to ideal time-frame and amount/number of sets/reps/forms.
It’s totally important to my overall health, strength, endurance, technique, and objective.
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Jan 7, 2011 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
I get it I am just old fashion and when riding like I describe I didn't have any problems staying in shape about 6% Body Fat.
As a owner of a VW Touareg and putting countless expensive repairs over 3 years, please don't buy their product. Their corporation doesn't give a damn about there customers even if you spent 55,000 on their Vehicle.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jan 7, 2011 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
It's not body fat that matters to me
It’s objective. Like going sub-30 in a 10K, or completing a century bike ride in under 4 hours, doing a sub-max day in weight room full-set/body workout.
Speed, power, endurance all mixed together to qualify for a marathon. Stuff like that. Keeping body weight/fat issues are only important for me if I need to decide to grapple/MMA at light/welter/middle/light heavy-weight, depending?
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Jan 7, 2011 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
I never worried about body fat but my friend had me do a Stress test at his sports fitness lab.
Never ran a 30-sub but did do a hilly 33 once and a beach 34, ran one Marathon in 3:41 but walked miles 18-19. Hit the wall due to Carbo loading I was talk into by my sister, who ran PV 15 times, but it only gave me runs that morning.
As a owner of a VW Touareg and putting countless expensive repairs over 3 years, please don't buy their product. Their corporation doesn't give a damn about there customers even if you spent 55,000 on their Vehicle.
by so.cal.native1952 on Jan 7, 2011 11:22 PM CST up reply actions
Our friend, 102, is perpetuating misinformation
1) The NCAA did not find that the Bushes received $200k-400k? Where on earth did you come up with that data point? Lake and Michaels both sued Reggie for from several hundred thousand to several million, but those damages are based on lossed income from the never-happened marketing venture.
If you ACTUALLY READ the NCAA report, the NCAA found that Reggie and family received some free rent on a house, some airline and hotel bills paid and that’s it. They actually have ZERO paper trail that Reggie received help with the car, only the word of convicted felon with an axe to grind, Lake.
2) How can you possibly arguing that if Cecil benefited, Cam didn’t benefit? Are you kidding me? Cecil gets $200k and Cam does not benefit? That defies common sense. If any member of the family benefits, then the whole family benefits. Cam should have lost his amateur status as soon as it became known that he was seeking compensation to play.
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
Thanks for the write up Wrangler 86 you understand who and what the Nazi Collegiate Assoc for Asshats is all about, Greed.
Wow it looks like the Lakers are becoming the Fakers this year, I guess they just don't get payed enough. .
by so.cal.native1952 on Dec 31, 2010 6:17 PM CST reply actions
This has all been extremely informative and interesting
Thanks to all you California posters—most of us BONERS (for you Californians, that is what we call ourselve here on Burntorngenation) don’t know the ins and outs like y’all do.
To other Boners or readers—please check out the link over at USC’s site called the Conquest Chronicles:
They are a bit of a defensive crowd, but if you look at it from their perspective they really did get hammered, which is especially evident now when compared to these two new bogus rulings on tOSU and Newton. I thought it was fair at the time because of the NCAA’s alleged standard that the institution has an extra duty to monitor their high profile athletes since they are the most likely targets of cheating boosters/agents/marketers, etc. But now we know that this rule doesn’t apply to tOSU since they allegedly didn’t inform their high profile players of recruting rules and that is now a defense for the players.
The NCAA’s position per their website is that “one size does not fit all.” I guess you don’t know your size until the NCAA informs you. USC is an XXX-large, and tOSU is a small. Auburn is a petite. Wonder what Texas is—I suspect we would be a XX-Large, while OU would probalby be a small or medium.
Is Justice blind?
Is there no equity before the NCAA ‘Law’?
Glad the CC bloggers came over. Thanks for all this Wrangler; I do think we need a follow up as this situation progresses. And we should invite the SC (and UCLA) guys to visit at that time. We need a dispassionate disposition of the facts to make sure we have the story straight (well, as straight as we can tell).
BTW from what I see, what’s to stop Pryor, et. al., to going the draft route even if he made an agreement to stay? Would tOSU or NCAA be reluctant to sue outright and keep this a hot issue?
The lawyers here might wanna jump in after the holidays. Despite our obsession with new coaches, this is one of the important big picture issues.
When it comes the NCAA
Justice is just plain ole greedy.
The viewpoint of USC fans is really interesting. I was just at a party here in Houston with a variety of fans. Mostly SEC and Big XII fans, and I threw out the question of the NCAA handling of tOSU and Auburn vs. USC. These were folks that know football. They were unanimous that everyone got off too light—including USC. Several folks said that because of the multiple violations USC should have gotten the death penalty—and several of these folks were SEC fans. One was a Tenn. fan, another LSU and the other Miss. State. I couldn’t stop laughing. Then I was told that Texas is actually the biggest cheat.
Per the Aggie in the group—I was informed that Mack Brown bought Earl Campbell a house when he was on staff for Darrell Royal? WTF? I didn’t even know what to say. I was also informed that Mack Brown bought Vince’s mom a house in Austin. I told this clueless aggie that Mack sure wasted his money since Vince’s mom still lives in the same house over in Aldine.
Thanks for the support whills….and have a great New Year. It is 2011 finally!!!
The SEC hates USC, they simply cannot be rationalized with on the subject
I think the funniest thing that I saw on TV all year was the pic of Eric Dickerson’s gold Trans Am purchased by TAMU on the Pony Excess 30/30. Hilarious. Can you imagine that gold TA in College Station? Too funny.
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
Not that we expect you to argue our defense
but, when these clueless haters say USC cheated and should have gotten the death pentalty, consider asking them to list our offenses:
1) did any employees of USC pay athletes…no
2) was it proven that anyone at USC knew about illicit agent payments to athletes….no
3) were any of the purported illicit benefits provided to athletes on campus….no, most everything was done in San Diego
4) did USC benefit from the illicit benefits….no, Bush was paid to leave early for the NFL hurting USC, he was not a pay to play at USC
When you nail them down to what exactly did USC do wrong, they shut up, stutter, stammer, and throw out….“they cheated!!!”. Clueless. You got it right that it was all Mike Garrett’s fault and our poor handling of the situation, combined with a corrupt NCAA.
A Quick Note for the Quitters
No comment from this thread will be deleted. You will have to own them when we get it turned around and beat Southern Cal. You will never ride the bandwagon when we come back. Not on BN. GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:24 PM CDT
You're correct that this wasn't institutionally directed
although the most serious questions would concern Mike Garrett’s due diligence and how much he actually knew. The secondary question is how aggressive institutions are about the twin monsters of alumni (Switzer would point to the “Oilies” as a big source of problems in what, for OU, has been a problem since the 1950s) and now agents or quasi-agents of one form or another. Both the institutions and the NCAA seem incredibly slow in reacting. And finally, as you note, NCAA has a history itself that may involved some corruption, either explicitly with decisions or implicitly with member schools in key positions of influence.
Even the methodology of penalty is seriously flawed – it is usually future players that are penalized in the long run and seldom the actual actors that are held responsible.
By the fact we can’t see much clear and direct resolution of these issues, imho this points to some future day when NCAA may have to be reformed to a vastly more responsible entity. And I don’t even bring up the BCS – and we all understand large sums of money have their own corrupting influence in the long run. You just can’t keep the damn ants out of the sugar that’s readily available (bowls and broadcasters increasing control).
Seeing how our respective institutions can afford to be above some of these issues in a way most can’t and yet can be wounded grievously, it is well worth paying long term attention to these subjects. There’s more than money at stake. (Getting politicians into it in this day and age of lobbying and legal bribery even makes this more fearful.)
A party in Houston?
Let’s see, your friends at the party think USC got off too light? Are you sure they really know football? Did they all read the NCAA report? You do know USC got the second-worst violations in NCAA history without anyone connected to the university paying any player even one cent.
I’m wondering what multiple violations are you talking about? certainly not in the football program. After 4 years of investigation they could only find ONE football player that had alledgedly taken anything. In order to get the “Lack of institutional control” label on USC, the NCAA lumped one basketall player (OJ Mayo, who USC had reported and sanctioned themselves about), and one Eastern European female tennis player that had wracked up $7000 in phone calls to her home.
That was all the NCAA could come up with. They had absolutely zero proof that USC new anything about what was secretly going on in San Diego regarding Reggie Bush and his family. Remember, people were not paying Bush to go to USC. Ex-felons were paying him to leave early.
Given the fact that your friends think there were multiple violations, I would say they know absolutely nothing about college football west of Texas. For you to agree with them would put you in that same category.
hmmmmm
Just to make sure, did I also agree with them that Mack Brown paid for Earl Campbell’s car at Texas? Considering that Mack Brown was at Southern Miss. during Campbell’s years and probably didn’t even know Earl Campbell, I sure hope I didn’t.
I've got a new link for you Wrangler86!
Here’s my Fanpost at Conquest Chronicles, it links to the House Sub-Committee hearing that Dr. Josephine R. Potuto lied to.
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
I didn't go to the yahoo story before I made that last comment.
The game may be afoot quite soon.
"afoot". . . . .
. . . .I LOVE that word.
I had these trail guides as a youth, “Afoot and Afield in San Diego County”. (I actually used this guide as a primary reference for mapping out my “Campo, Mexico” to “San Gorgonio Pass” route, way back when.
Afoot? That’s just aces my man!
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Jan 2, 2011 5:10 PM CST up reply actions
Whoa!
How effin- ‘old-school’ is that?
It took me something like, 12 seconds to type and .20 seconds to Google “Sherlock Holmes ‘afoot’”. I’m not even sure my parents were alive when that stuff was out.
“The game is afoot”, eh? Wowzers! Talk about “Way Back Machine”. (now, I was able to procure some Rocky & Bullwinkle/Fractured Fairy Tales from my local library. mind you, these DVD’s recorded shows from the late-60’s and. . . .I STILL wasn’t born yet)
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Jan 2, 2011 10:24 PM CST up reply actions
You get to read a lot on a ranch.
Yeah, I saw SC run out the clock on Texas in ‘66 at Memorial Stadium for a 10-6 win. The Horns weren’t lucky that year, lost four games by a total of 19 points. Never enough offense and that would wear down a good defense. That was the opening game of my sophomore year. Classic SC running game ate up the last eight minutes of the clock.
There’s several of us old hides here,
I love it!
And I mean that with all sincerity. Some of the most boring people I know, I work with and, unfortunately- socialize with most of the time.
The most interesting people I ever meet on any given day are those whose Sun was once young. It can be at a counter, while I’m buying a donut & coffee. At a park throwing the frisbee and giving them a try at it. (this one guy, I swear- he must’ve been at least 75 yrs. old and he was with his grandkids. well, he chucked that disc and came within 2 feet of hitting a hole in one on a frisbee-golf flag pole situated at least 70 yards away. it wasn’t so much the distance as it was his accuracy). And (I will admit to this), I was smokin’ a spliff crashing a 4-some at a local 3-par and this old cat I got paired with (I’m talkin’ really, really old) with PANTS, DRESS SHIRT, AND SHORT NECKTIE royally kicked my ass! He was clownin’ me the whole morning too. Referring to golfers I had to WiKi when I got home.
You should have seen his stance and swing. ? Lawdy! He f_cked my swing up for a good 2 weeks, and I suck already. But. . . . .he demolished me.
I learned a lot from that guy. Invited he and his wife to a party I threw a few weeks later. Found out at the party, he’s some celebrity artist who did scads of drugs back in his day. Daniel Kaufman is his name. Sadly, . . . .I think he still pwned’s me.
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Jan 2, 2011 11:23 PM CST up reply actions
Hehheh. We have some skills and knowledge.
I used to have great accuracy with a frisbee. The guy who won the first Iron Man in Hawaii was from Austin, great athlete who never found a sport until Iron Man. He owned the unofficial Austin record for distance, 115 yards (345 feet; no wind) at Memorial Stadium (back when you could go in anytime). I think that was with 168 or 180 gram frisbee, the big one back then. Beautiful form.
Most of the guys here are young like you; all the writers are young and quite brilliant go-getters. So I provide context and extra texture, sometimes just extra wind (something one gets much better at with age).
Interesting and thanks for sharing this
The more we learn about the workings of the NCAA the more angry we will probably be.
I’m still trying to figure out how the Sugar Bowl execs. knew what the ruling was regarding Pryor in order to have time to lobby and adjust the punishment.
I hear you
And what about Commissioner Slive of the SEC? Did that m-fer earn his money this year for them peeps, or what? I have got to seriously hand it to him and those SEC lawyers. Right after the SEC CG and just before the Heisman- Scam gets off scott-free? I mean, ya gotta be kidding me? That scheit couldn’t have had a better script than a Ricky Gervais produced “Office” episode!
One day ineligible?
Our Dillon Baxter had to wait at least a week for a golf-cart ride. And last year- for driving his girlfriend-owned (but employer’s co-signed) Range Rover- Joe McKnight wasn’t given a quick decision for his reinstatement for almost 2 1/2 weeks- USC ended up suspending him from the Emerald Bowl game, didn’t even make the trip out East even, and which all but ended his collegiate career.
I’m tellin’ you!
"Every rock that someone threw at me, I just used as a steppingstone." (Allen Bradford USC Tailback aka: "B-Rad"- Conquest Chronicles)
by BixBeiderbecke on Jan 2, 2011 10:09 PM CST up reply actions
The SEC
They are like a league of their own. Just watch the payback Miss. State will get for squealing.
Pryor’s acts expose charade of college athletics
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=dw-pryor010311
Have you all read this article yet? The part about loaner cars is interesting…
A few quotes from the article
Then Pryor showed up at the Sugar Bowl and proceeded to cast doubt on the promise supposedly made by the suspended players that they’d return for next season (a supposed condition on their bowl eligibility). Later he appeared to hack at Ohio State’s claim the players didn’t know the rules in the first place.
"I already knew what I shouldn’t have done back two years ago," he said.
AD Smith promptly declared that the issue with memorabilia sales and free tattoos was "isolated." That led to former Buckeye Antonio Pittman to tweet to the contrary: "cats been getting hookups on tatts since back in 01."
and
"I made the point that anything that could be done to preserve the integrity of this year’s game, we would greatly appreciate it," Hoolahan told the Columbus Dispatch. "That appeal did not fall on deaf ears." Sugar Bowl CEO Paul Hoolahan
I think the best way to preserve the integrity of the game is to not allow 5 players to play that broke NCAA rules.
By "integrity", he's referring to the game still being competitive and watchable
certainly not integrity as in what’s morally right
by goingforthecorner on Jan 5, 2011 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
It made me sick to watch Pryor play
Couldn’t he have at least worn a one of those under armour long sleeves so it wasn’t like he was flaunting his tats at us? Oh, that’s right, he was.
I blame the Vest also. I would have told those guys that the better not let me see one of their stupid tattoos for the rest of there career.
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