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If UT joins the Big 10, it might be the worst state decision since Texas joined the Union...

First of all, nobody is mentioning anything about the State Legislature stepping in to interfere with any of these discussions should this start to look like a done deal vs. some posturing.  Ann Richards forced Baylor's way into the Big 12 by threatening legal action back in the mid-90s.  You can't tell me that the colleges in Texas wouldn't be hurt by this move IF Texas were the only school involved in this move, which would then call legislators to want to be involved.  I don't think the Big 10 would be interested in taking Texas AND another Big 12 school if they are shooting for just being a 12 team pool since they have 11.  If they want to go Super 14, then that might be another story as three teams from Texas would allow for some flexibility for all parties.  If not, the Longhorns would have no incentive to play in-state rivalries on a continual basis with the Big 10 conference schedule and the strength of conference schedule.  Ultimately, if the courts don't help, then there is money provided solely to UT as well as a few others that the Legislature can tie up IF it got to the point where Texas wanted to press on despite legal threats.  This would be similar to Congress always threatening MLB with removing their anti-trust exemption.

 

Next, not only would the other Texas schools be affected by losing games, but Texas would basically be giving an open invitation to the Borg by allowing Big 10 schools to have 4-6 games a year inside the state of Texas to play AND recruit more freely.  Open up the borders and led the raiding begin.  There would probably be Div III schools in Texas upset over this. Again, another reason for them to ring the phones of the legislators in their district.

 

Third, we all know football is king, but the travel expenses for all of the other programs would be enormous.  You don't think Augie is scratching his head on how baseball travel is going to work? Let's not talk about the other sports because it's even worse.  Back to football, anyone who is thinking Michigan State or Indiana in the snow in November would be an easy game for Texas, you have to be kidding.  Travelling in the winter thru the Big 10 territory from Texas would be a nightmare.

 

Finally, if you argue that Texas gets all of this extra TV revenue (maybe $10 million more over what they presently make with the Big 12), what exactly is the net gain after all aspects of travel, etc. are figured in?  Is it worth it to draw the ire of the State Legislators (even if you win, what about any and all court costs involved), diminish rivalry games like TAMU and OU, and blow any political capital for just a few extra million bucks?  I just don't see this being a huge win for the UT program if we go this alone.

 

I know that everyone is talking about all of these conference doomsday scenarios that make Colt's fluke injury in the BCS championship look like a dream.  My optimistic self thinks ultimately Texas is using these talks to maybe shake some things up within the Big 12 in terms of haggling for more money and/or more influence with TV network deals.  Because if Texas is the only school for about three states before they hit their closest conference appointment, then maybe we are just as self-involved and selfish as everyone tries and portrays us.  There is something bigger than cutting & running vs. making a stand and building around being the centerpiece vs. being someone's new plaything. Maybe I am just naive...

 

Hook 'em...

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Couldn't make it past the title

Joining the United States was bad?

"Texas played without its best player for nearly 56 minutes. There's an asterisk." -- Ivan Maisel, ESPN.com

by Hopkins Horn on Feb 12, 2010 9:09 PM CST reply actions  

You can argue about the headline...

but the text and his position is far from moronic. Political issues aside, the cost and fatigue of long trips, the cold weather, and the loss of established rivalries are good arguments against leaving the Big XII, as well as the fact that the Big XII in recent years has been a stronger conference in football, baseball, and maybe even basketball than the Big X. On the other side, most of the counter-arguments I have read are based on (1) the “Chicken Little” scenarios of the Big X or PAC X picking off important Big XII members, only to replace them with something along the lines of Sam Houston State, (2) the questionable assertion that UT somehow needs even more money, (3) rather naive assertions that we are so desirable that we could obtain special treatment from the Big X in terms of special travel allowances or allowing us to play all cold weather games at home, or (4) the rather snobbish, anti-southern argument that we need to be among the more academically elite schools of the Midwest and Northeast.

"Only angry people win football games." --DKR

by OBdoc on Feb 13, 2010 1:01 PM CST up reply actions  

You can't argue about the headline

Anyone who believes Texas should secede from the United States is possessed by depths of ignorance the English language lacks the ability to describe.

proud to swim home

by learned hand on Feb 13, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I think robertpz is Perry's campaign manager.

“. . .what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

"Stats are for losers, I like winning games"
". . .switzer is a cracked out bitch . . ."-osu poster

by 98horn on Feb 13, 2010 5:19 PM CST up reply actions  

That's hilarious learned hand

It's a Horns' world. Even Aggies play hoops with a burnt orange ball.

by Speedway on Feb 13, 2010 7:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Glad you liked it sir,

I don’t usually get stirred, but our governor found a way to annoy me.

proud to swim home

by learned hand on Feb 14, 2010 3:41 AM CST up reply actions  

yeah

who wants to be academically elite
pretty good or better than alot of places is just fine for me…..

by AlDe2356 on Feb 13, 2010 11:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I saw that earlier, and decided to let the entire post slide. But, if you insist

1) Texas is in the South? I was born and raised in Texas, and I always understood that the “South” started east of the state line. Texas has always been Texas. Has something changed? We now want to be associated with Mississippi and Alabama? If so, why?

2) Texas alumni are snobbish? (I prefer elitist). In other news, it snows in Big 10 country, the Big 12 TV revenue deal is tiny, and Bob Stoops still has no chin.

3) Texas A&M is UT’s closest academic peer in the conference. I don’t think it’s wrong to want to change that, if just to piss off the Aggies. Also, there are many fine schools in the South – I don’t think any rational person would dispute that – unfortunately, they’re not in the same conference.

proud to swim home

by learned hand on Feb 14, 2010 3:33 AM CST up reply actions  

If you listen to our Aggie Governor....

you would think so! Any good headline writer has to try and grab the reader’s attention! My apologies as a former journalism major and my sense of humor gets the best of me sometime. However, this whole Big 10 talk is a bit much…

"I've never gone into a game trying to win the Heisman Trophy; I go into a game trying to win." - Colt McCoy

by Robertpz on Feb 12, 2010 10:07 PM CST reply actions  

- Texas is already squeezing everything it can out of Big 12
- With additional households (Texas) in the Big Ten network, $the $10 million would grow
- Texas is the girl everyone wants, Texas should be proactive not sit and watch its conference fall apart
- Texas has no equals in the Big XII, being the big fish in the little pond might feel good but does not provide for a good strategic vehicle to continue the pursuit of excellence
- Texas probably needs wrap A&M into a package deal whichever way it goes. They are different Universities but both are premier institutions, no offense to Tech (but you are “Tech” for a reason), but it is not in the same league and the Big Ten and PAC would never consider them
- Texas might force the Big XII to shed some weak partners and look for some kind of alliance with USC/UCLA

by IUTex on Feb 13, 2010 3:42 AM CST reply actions  

Lets expand the Big XII

I don’t understand why we have to take this lying down and make our move based on the power bases located in financially troubled states such as California (Pac 10); or Ohio, Illinois, Wisconsin etc. (Big 10)., why can’t we snag some of the big markets and develop a Big 16 conference of our own, with its headquarters still in Dallas, TX and we pick the teams we want, we get the revenues and markets that we need. Joining a conference full of state teams representing areas in financial trouble may or may not make good economic sense in the long term. I mean no offense to the schools but states like Ohio and Michigan are basket case economies. How long will they continue to generate revenues for the TV networks? So, at best this will be a profitable move in the short term but with the risk of more changes in futures, as such an arrangement is bound to fail.

Texas and Texas A&M should and must lead the power base in an athletic arrangement, and heading a conference with its office in Texas will ensure that. I am all for expanding the Big XII.

As for your comment on Tech, actually other than Big 10, every conference including the Pac 10 have a few ‘Techs’. For Pac 10 it is Oregon State (tier 4, us news) and Arizona State (tier 3, us news); SEC has only 5 Carnegie tier one schools: Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, LSU, and Vanderbilt. Also given the fact that Tech is likely to become a tier one in the near future and its increasing alumni base in DFW, it will not be wise to drop Tech in my vision of the expanded Big XII.

I like your idea about expanding the Big XII to include alliances with some stronger programs, but before looking at USC/UCLA, I would look at Arizona, Arizona State, LSU, Arkansas and Utah.

by YUMC on Feb 13, 2010 12:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Expansion past 12

doesn’t work. The extra teams don’t bring in enough extra TV revenue to make for the extra cut of the pie they take out. !2 does, as it gets a Football Championship game.

I’m more and more convinced that CU will leave the Big 12 for the 12-Pac. But I don’t think UT gets past the Texas Legislature to join the Big 10.

"You have been banned from the Purple Row, for Inappropriate conduct, profanity, (&) telling site authors their articles are crap."

by Redhawk on Feb 14, 2010 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

No equals?

In what way? How are you defining this? Depending on the sport, I think OU, Tech, Kansas, Nebraska, KS, all may have an argument. If you are taking about academics, why not join the Ivy League? How many “equals” would we have in the Big X? Maybe we should just become an independant. then no one could “drag us down” and we wouldn’t have to share anything with anyone.

"Only angry people win football games." --DKR

by OBdoc on Feb 13, 2010 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Really?

because the Big 12 is doing so much for Texas right now??………yeah right!

The Big 12 is a sinking ship at present, and Texas is behind the scenes being proactive about doing something about this for themselves…..or at least the threat of doing something will force the big 12 into action.

The Big 12 is holding back Texas.

by silky51 on Feb 13, 2010 7:47 AM CST reply actions  

being proactive

I agree with being proactive. I’m sure Nebraska and OU would want to do the same. If I was the Big 12, being that the conference seems to be under fire and all of a sudden crumbling, I (the Big 12) need to be proactive too. If the Big 10 and Pac 10 want to expand, don’t let them do it at their expense. Be the first to be a super conference and expand from 12 to 14 or 16. I would target teams in other conferences whi arn’t happy. Maybe lure Arkansas (South) and Utah (North) to join and if 16, Maybe LSU and New Mexico since their state border Texas and relitively close to current Big 12 schools.

by Ryan2907 on Feb 13, 2010 10:33 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

well... since there's not a chance in the world...

that Arkansas or LSU are going to take a look at the SEC TV contract and jump to any “Big 16”, you’re talking about adding Utah and New Mexico….

and those are going to boost the Big 12’s leverage for a TV contract how exactly?

by Pflash on Feb 14, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

there is a "chance" Arkansas would join the Big 12

The number one source of revenue for college athletics is still ticket sales, and donations. If a school added enough interest with increased attendance they could make up for the loss of conference TV money.

If UT stays in the Big 12 (and I think the will), and CU leaves for the 12-Pac (and I think they will), It’s not completely out of the question that Arkansas would join the Big 12. (though I’d think BYU would still be the mostly likely to join)

"You have been banned from the Purple Row, for Inappropriate conduct, profanity, (&) telling site authors their articles are crap."

by Redhawk on Feb 14, 2010 3:27 PM CST up reply actions  

academics..

most of these big 12 places arnt known for being great in school

by AlDe2356 on Feb 13, 2010 11:41 PM CST up reply actions  

which is a misconception actually

7 of the current Big 12 teams are members of the AAU. This group is considered the TOP research universities in the country. The Big 12 is 3rd among ATHLETIC conferences in members, behind the Big 10, and the Ivy League, but ahead of the Pac-10 and the SEC. The Big 10 has 11, and membership in this group is on the Big 10’s wish list for membership. (which leave out Notre Dame!)

members:
Iowa St.
Mizzou
Nebraska
Kansas
UT
A&M
Colorado

"You have been banned from the Purple Row, for Inappropriate conduct, profanity, (&) telling site authors their articles are crap."

by Redhawk on Feb 14, 2010 3:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Pac 10's Members

Cal
Stanford
UCLA
USC
Arizona
Oregon
Washington

7 out of 10 would place the Pac 10s percentage ahead of the 7 out of 12 from the Big XII.

by mrhavercamp on Feb 16, 2010 6:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I feel like Texas has become the Will Muschamp of conference expansion.

Any time a change is mentioned Texas is rumored to be the top target.

by Texasrocks on Feb 13, 2010 11:21 AM CST reply actions  

Question for Gov Perry

If Texas secedes, can we still play for the national championship?

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.

by Caradoc on Feb 13, 2010 1:04 PM CST reply actions  

Lighten up Run Bevo Run and LH...

Sorry if I like to draw attention to my posts by throwing out Rick Perry’s bumper sticker mantra of late. I don’t think being part of the Union is a mistake, yet I digress. Since you two guys like to share your political insight on my joke hidden in the headline, could you address the main point I brought up (that no other posts & only one or two responders have acknowledged) that politics will supercede any “proactive” moves that UT wants to make or feels like they need to make concerning the Big 10. Heck even “Sportsbybrooks” website acknowledges that political power will factor into this Big 12 vs. Big 10 fiasco and Brooks is a West Coast guy?

There is absolutely no way Texas moves to the Big 10 by themselves without the state government flexing their muscle (i.e. you have to take another school(s) with them). I want Texas to get everything they deserve, but like some other guys on here have said, why can’t we be the leaders in this instead of the leavers in this?

Of course, I still think the majority of this is chest-beating and sabre-rattling. Texas deserves a better deal and the Big 12 needs to make the move to get the dollars it needs. Why does ESPN get to call of the shots? Didn’t FOX just lose out on the BCS? Why not let the networks get involved? Give up five bowl games and come out with conferences instead?

You guys have a great Valentine’s Day with the one you love…or even just like….

"I've never gone into a game trying to win the Heisman Trophy; I go into a game trying to win." - Colt McCoy

by Robertpz on Feb 13, 2010 2:40 PM CST reply actions  

the argument every1 is making is

the big 12 cant move the dollars to get ut a better deal…
the big 12 is prety much maxed out in terms of how good it can become, and its also not the most stable..
losing a few key colleges would really mess it up. for instance try to take a look at how much money the conferance makes without ut. highly doubt it would last very long before schools make a mad rush to leave

by AlDe2356 on Feb 13, 2010 11:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Big 10?

Yeah, playing Minnesota Golden Gophers every year, wow. Football in the Big 10 is a joke. Playing Indiana and Illinois would be like playing Rice and UTEP every year. Hey, we already basically do that. I guess the pro Big 10 move people are the same that want the cupcake schedule every year. And for the people who don’t have the capacity to think this through and think we would be playing Ohio State and Penn State every year, sorry. Don’t think that’s going to happen. The Big 10 would have 12 teams at that point and would have a championship game.
So instead of playing Baylor in Waco where I can go to the game, we play Purdue. Big improvement there. Gee I sure hope the administration isn’t as arrogant and unconcerned with the fan base that actually goes to the games as some of the people posting on this board.

by bevoluble on Feb 13, 2010 6:08 PM CST reply actions  

Gee I sure hope the administration isn’t as arrogant and unconcerned with the fan base that actually goes to the games as some of the people posting on this board.

Welcome to capitalism and life as a fungible consumer. If you think the executive of hundred million dollar corporations are making decisions are making decisions based on your personal happiness, you may not have a pleasurable ride.

proud to swim home

by learned hand on Feb 13, 2010 7:02 PM CST up reply actions  

speaking of unconcerned with the fan base

All this talk of a Longhorn TV network… would that mean I couldn’t watch UT on broadcast TV in Austin? That would really piss me off.

by jmptexas on Feb 13, 2010 6:55 PM CST reply actions  

My doubts

I doubt Rick Perry is going to “step in” and stop Texas from moving to the Big 10.( If they do move)

I doubt Big 10 teams will “raid” Texas for football players. Generally most Texan prospects want to stay in-state. By the way everyone has always tried to recruit from Texas.

I doubt the travel expenses will be that big of a difference. But I do agree about the weather… I wouldn’t want to go play a road game in the north during November.

I doubt that THE STATE OF TEXAS would sue THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS for changing athletic conferences.

I doubt that UT is trying to manipulate the Big 12 for more money. Texas is doing fine financially and the Big 12 hasn’t tried to take advantage of UT’s fortunes before.

This is all going to blow over just like the Missouri talks with the Big 10 did.

by colt12 on Feb 16, 2010 8:23 PM CST reply actions  

The Utes of today....

…don’t remember Ann Richards being the only thing standing in the way of Texas trying to leave and join the Big 12. The cost for that stand-off? Baylor! And if you think that no one in Texas is going to get their red tape in a wad if Texas is the only school from this state to jump to the Big 10, then you are sadly mistaken.

Not to point out the lack of geographical reference here, but a quick trip to play a 3-game set in baseball against Baylor MIGHT just be a tad cheaper than likewise in Ann Arbor. When the state of Iowa becomes your closest conference competitor instead of your furthest, clearly travel costs are going to be huge.

I still think at the end of the day more than $10 million per year (difference in Big 10 TV contract and Big 12 TV contract) is going to have to be thrown at UT to leave for all of the burden they will be taking on. AND that is if the state government doesn’t try and get them to take another Texas school with them.

Again, I am hoping this is more posturing than prospering…

"I've never gone into a game trying to win the Heisman Trophy; I go into a game trying to win." - Colt McCoy

by Robertpz on Feb 17, 2010 9:00 AM CST up reply actions  

this is for you...

…via the1austin back in December

(link debunking urban legend of Ann Richards)

by vy til i die on Feb 17, 2010 10:26 AM CST up reply actions  

The Big XII Needs DeLoss Dodds as Commissioner

Move Mack up, Boom takes the headset with mic 1, and all is well in the land.

by orangetower on Feb 16, 2010 11:13 PM CST reply actions  

i dunno

i still think mack has a few more tricks for boom to learn before he takes the helm.

by AlDe2356 on Feb 17, 2010 12:35 AM CST up reply actions  

   Just saw your article and it was great. These elitist just cant stand it that they cant get their little paws on of more the athletiic revenue

by Big10sucks on Feb 21, 2010 3:21 PM CST reply actions  

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