On Criticism
by Peter Bean on Feb 6, 2010 9:31 PM CST
in Texas Longhorns Basketball
64 comments
Game review of the horrid performance in Norman is to follow. But first...
Amazingly enough, Texas' performance in Norman, which was pitiful in too many ways to count, was not the most frustrating part about today. It's shocking anything could be more frustrating than watching a favorite team lose like Texas did, but it turns out that, at least for me, even more frustrating are many of the critical reactions to it: Jordan Hamilton is a bum who shouldn't play... Jai Lucas is a waste of space who should go back to Florida... And most of all, Rick Barnes is an idiot, underachieving coach.
This may not be the best space to pick this fight, but like I said, I'm frustrated by a lot of it, and I've got the conch shell, so I'm speaking my piece. While the Barnes bashing didn't reach a fevered pitch until today, the rumblings began immediately with Texas' loss to Kansas State, picking up steam each of the last three weeks. The variations on the Rick Barnes criticism touch on a dozen different flavors, but they need not be addressed one by one because, at least in my view, there are unifying elements among them that we can focus on instead.
My argument is relatively straightforward:
- First, leave the straw men in the barn, because this is not about being a "Barnes apologist", "sunshine pumper", whatever. The problem is not in fans' identifying weaknesses and analyzing failures; nor is there any desire on my part to divorce them from Rick Barnes, or to shield him from critical scrutiny. Quite the opposite, to the extent problems and weaknesses are properly identified, we want to see them being discussed, and if you've read this blog for any period of time, you know that Wiggo's and my archives are littered with negative evaluations. Hell, you need only to read the Oklahoma game review that I'm publishing right after this rant. I've got nothing nice to say about the job Rick Barnes did today.
- There's nothing at all frustrating when the identification of problems and weaknesses is accurate, measured, and deserving of discussion. Rather, what gets me is when an additional step is added in at the tail end, in which substantial big picture conclusions are proffered as though they naturally follow from those rightly identified problems.
- The byproduct of the practice is that meaningful evaluation of Rick Barnes effectively becomes neutered. There are no standards to anchor the substantive discussions about weaknesses that we should be waging, and the spillover so saturates the discussion pool related to overall job evaluation as to make it an ocean of talk radio. What's the use of calling in to make a good point? In such an atmosphere, the utility of good points is limited to their being different from bad ones.
- Substantial portions of the Texas basketball fan base exist in such an atmosphere. When expectations were low, lack of critical scrutiny produced among many fans inflated opinions of Tom Penders and his accomplishments. Now that expectations are high, haphazard torrents of critical scrutiny are unloaded on the program, skewing the opinions of many about Rick Barnes and his accomplishments. The end product differs, but the absence of perspective is the same.
- I've hypothesized that these attitudes are the result of large portions of the fan base being semi-attached. It explains both how fans can be overly-content when the program isn't raising their expectations, and how they can miss the forest for the trees when the program provides a reason to invest their emotional capital.
- The upshot of (1) - (5) is that discussions about Rick Barnes' weaknesses frequently spill over into conclusive assertions about his overall worthiness, often enough to have a widespread distorting effect on fans' perception of the coach. Maybe I'm being uncharitable to Texas fans and this is what happens everywhere, all the time, about everything (there's some truth to that, no doubt), but I remain convinced that, at least among some, it's reflective of looking at things through a lens fit for something other than college basketball.
There's no other way to explain the skeptical scrutiny that would lead someone to announce that his beef with Rick Barnes dates back to 2005, when he "[took] the wrong direction in recruiting." As though to further make my case in point, the poster later offers to clarify what he meant, explaining that Rick Barnes should be recruiting only kids who play their ball in Texas.
From this explanation one of two things could be true: either (A) the poster is more or less clueless about the national character of college basketball and recruiting, or (B) he has a well-reasoned argument for why his strategy might be more successful than Barnes' has been.
Even if the latter were true, there's still an enormous incongruity between the poster's argument (that a Texas-only recruiting strategy might be superior) and his conclusion (that he doesn't like Rick Barnes as Texas' coach). It's a perfect example of jumping from the realm of 'discussion of a perceived weakness' to 'ultimate conclusion about overall worthiness', offered without explanation or justification.
In actuality, the poster has no such well-reasoned argument for why his Texas-only strategy might be more successful. Instead, he simply cherry picks Texas' non-recruitment of Willie Warren, explaining that if the poster had been Texas' head coach, "[he] would have heavily pursued Willie Warren two years ago. I realize he was an OU lean all along, but why not pursue him. Instead, we got a guy who plays wonderful defense but can’t hit the broad side of a barn on offense in Dogus." (Ergo, Rick Barnes sucks.)
The argument is empty enough as it is, but the poster could have at least qualified his pronouncement by announcing that his beef dates back to 2007. But 2005? Really? So the argument is: "Starting when Rick Barnes recruited Kevin Durant (Maryland) and DJ Augustin (Louisiana), I lost faith in him as Texas' coach."
I don't like to make a habit of singling out readers with whom I disagree, but in this instance I simply chose one among many. You could crawl through today's game thread and pick out any of a dozen others. They all frustrated me equally, even though several of them contained perfectly valid, well-articulated critical analysis of a problem or set of problems. They're all parts of the same whole, and it's unfortunate, because it makes difficult (if not impossible) engaging in meaningful, targeted critical analysis of the team, the program, and the coach. Even if I'm completely wrong about the underlying cause, the indisputable effect is a rush of sweeping conclusions and premature obituaries. Overwhelmingly, such proclamations merely serve to blur the character of the issues under examination, as well as the justifiable scope of the inquiry.
The reason my frustration boiled over today is because we're actually in the midst of a troubling skid that legitimately demands critical examination. This was supposed to be the year when Barnes had the returning pieces to make a national championship run; for 17 games, it looked like we were going to do just that, but in just a three week span we're not only well off the path to Indianapolis, but Houston, too. There's no doubt that this stretch of poor play raises numerous questions, but I submit it equally beyond doubt that it provides no conclusive answers -- not even about this season, let alone the competence of Rick Barnes as head of the program. Come April, it's conceivable that reasonable people might disagree about what an early NCAA tournament exit said about Barnes' ceiling as a coach, but at the very least such discussion is at this time still premature, and can be fairly characterized as speculative, counter-productive, and exceedingly narrow.
What we know is this: Rick Barnes has the Texas program in position to be consistently competitive for Final Four berths, a fact that carries so much weight as to nearly preclude any conclusion that favors replacement. Even if one were to present a strong, well-reasoned analysis for believing that Rick Barnes is incapable of winning a national title, the fact still remains that the odds are against a replacement exceeding the level Barnes has already achieved. Worse, replacement begets the opportunity for regression, perhaps substantial regression.
Take all that together and it seems to me that positive contributions to discussion of Texas basketball right now not only should, but necessarily must, be focused more narrowly on evaluating problems within the framework of a Rick Barnes administration. Every reactionary attempt to leap ahead, to a place we arguably never should or will head, just adds noise.
And if you must indulge, please, pick up the phone. Give Colin Cowherd a call.
2 recs |
64 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
I guess what puzzled me what the specific frustration expressed toward me
I didn’t think my line or rhetoric or questioning to be non-sequitir in regards to the criticisms I levied toward the performances.
And Colin Cowherd, like all but maybe one or two people at ESPN, is a hype monkey who doesn’t bother having actual opinions. He just caters to what he thinks people to have. The other day I spent a full five minutes listening to him, which is the first time I’ve been able to do that since December 2004 (right before receiving Sirius). He wouldn’t shut his yammering pencil neck up about Beyonce and how she’s the most beautiful woman in the world, and how she sings better than anyone in the world. Oh Reginald…I disagree. Tangent over.
Had to jump in somewhere
And yours was hardly the best example, so don’t read too much into it. As I said in the thread, I meant no offense to you, or anyone, really. I was simply frustrated.
As for your actual comment, I think you actually qualified your conclusion enough that I unfairly selected yours as a jumping in point, as you seemed to say that the recent skid could be foretelling an early March exit that means we’re building towards next year.
Anyway, my general objection is to the practice of reaching conclusions that require numerous big leaps forward to get there. Bad as Texas was today, and has often been the last three weeks, I think you can make at least as good an argument that Texas will seriously contend for a berth in Indianapolis as you can that they will fizzle out early. So let’s all hold off the obituaries and talk about what’s wrong first, and where/how/whether we can fix it.
You ain't hurt...
I guess I'm not sure what could be discussed about how to fix it
I definitely admit that I don’t know as much about basketball as I do about a number of other sports, but I don’t think there’s a very long list of potential solutions to the FT problem, which I think is one of the most confounding problems I’ve seen for the team the past few weeks. As for JH’s AK-47-like shot selection, DJ’s attitude, and Dexy’s spectrum of issues, and the underwhelming performance in field goals as a team, I don’t really know that there’s a whole lot of analysis I could do. The issues are there, and the fixes don’t seem as easy as just dropping weight for Dexy last year.
by burntorangehorn on Feb 6, 2010 9:56 PM CST up reply actions
Thank goodness fans don't run the athletic department
There is a decided difference in tones and interactions here after a loss in that probably pretty fairly reflects the sentiment of the general fan base. The first reaction is to blame a coach. I think it’s fair to say that Rick Barnes is becoming the new Greg Davis. It’s the same story with the same questions as the football’s running game last year. Is it the scheme? Is it the personnel? Is it the coaching? The answer usually lies across all three.
For specifics you could point to losing Varez Ward and perhaps our best shot at point guard. Then Damion James not scoring in the first halves of some games. Then Hamilton’s one and done strategy (one pass, one shot). Oh and there’s Dexter Pittman playing 15 minutes a game and becoming a foul factory. And the non-production from Chapman and Hill. And Balbay’s shooting. The list goes on and on.
Some, maybe most, of the problems are beyond Barnes’ control. I’ll use the same argument I’ve used for Greg Davis. He doesn’t shoot free throws or blow layups down low. He doesn’t run the point or fail to show up for the first half (Damion James). And so on ad nauseum.
Also give Oklahoma some credit, they played lights out in the first half in arguably their biggest game of the year. If we were to lose one game to OU in football or basketball this year out of three I’m okay with this one.
It may be that this team has no chemistry because it has no effective point guard. And it is reasonable to say to that the problem may not be cured this year and that we might be out of the tournament early. But let’s have a little fun with it along the way whatever happens. I don’t see Barnes reacting in the same manner as the last two basketball coaches here.
To the idiots screaming to fire Barnes: Consider where he’s brought us and try not to be just another stupid fan.
"If worms carried pistols, birds wouldn't eat 'em"- Darrell Royal
by SpiritOfTheFedora on Feb 7, 2010 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
Two steps back
Is at this point better than going nowhere. Show me some emotio…some willingness to experiment for the greater good. Stagnation is a recipe for complancency
by Countachlpsx on Feb 6, 2010 9:42 PM CST via mobile reply actions
think about what you're saying.
really, think. you’d rather get worse than be the same. nice.
Not quite
I’d rather take a chance on somethin that hurts us in the beginning and could eventually work out than stay the same
by Countachlpsx on Feb 6, 2010 9:50 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
If the same people that are on during the game threads pop in here, I can’t await the entertainment that will be as this thread takes a ride on the crazy train to Hell. I expect a similar outcome here for you ‘defending’ Barnes as on the island with the conch shell that you reference.
I wasn't in the thread at all until just after the game ended
But I think there were some appropriate reactions. What puzzled me was that so many people were putting up the mocking “fire Barnes” posts, when I think I saw either few or none of those after the game was over. Maybe there were some during the game, and I admit I didn’t go back and read all the in-game comments, but I didn’t see any new ones once I popped in the thread.
by burntorangehorn on Feb 6, 2010 9:52 PM CST up reply actions
With you 100% PB
i think there’s probably an added degree of backlash based on the unfortunate way the football season ended— a lot of people (myself included) were hoping to have our (still very talented) basketball team to lean on.
Thank god it doesn’t work like the BCS and as bad as things can get, there’s still time to turn this thing around.
And here’s hoping that we don’t end up doing the same thing to our Amazing baseball team in the coming months.
Perfect example, actually
Remember how crappy the baseball team would look at times last year? In the end, they rallied out of the loser’s bracket to win the Big 12 title, rallied their way to Omaha, and were one bad inning in Game 1 against LSU from winning it all.
It’s just too soon to bury this team. And yet it is the appropriate time to talk about what’s ailing this team. Too many people rush for the shovels to do the burying, which not only is premature but decidedly diminishes our ability to have the important substantive discussion about what’s ailing us.
You ain't hurt...
I think in some weird alternate universe...
Greg Davis is to blame for all this.
Get off your knees Greg, you're blowin' the game.
by kriess on Feb 6, 2010 9:57 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Issues I see with Barnes
Slow starts to almost every single game UT plays and comes back in the second. Why is he seemingly incapable of putting together a good first half game plan for the team? I mean, unless the other team is completely mediocre, by half time, normally UT is down.
His lineups. What the hell is with putting Mason and Balbay on the court at the same time? It’s like having half a team because everyone else is getting double teamed.
Free throws: We need to bring someone in or something to help teach and get the players to gain confidence in their shooting at the line.
Not getting through to Hamilton about shot selection. I don’t care if he pulls Hamilton for whole games at this point if Hamilton can’t figure out how to pick his spots. He should be upfront and honest with Hamilton that if he takes one or two shots from bad spots, he’s pulled for the rest of that game and the next one.
TEXAS FIGHT
I was glad we won the other night
But I remember telling my dad that I wished it was Bradley that went off instead of Hamilton. The fact that he scored so much is going to perpetuate these 2/11 (not sure exactly so I am making up numbers) shooting performances.
I have no idea about what to do, but we are too good to be playing like this. We just look terrible.
I still love this team, and they are still capable. I just don’t know.
"A lot of people look for the easy way to do anything, in swimming there is no easy way." - Eddie Reese
Cicero would be proud of your thesis PB
Anyway, if you’ve listened to Rick’s postgame interview, he keeps saying things like “They need to figure it out” and many more statements to that effect. Is that as troubling to you as it is me? I don’t know why that bothers me. Isn’t the coaching staff there to help them “figure it out?”
College Station made The Guinness Book of Records: World's largest tool shed
Pittman finally has a decent game.
We out rebounded them. Same on TOs (although I can’t see about points off TOs).
I didn’t watch much of the game, but it looks like the problems were:
1) 37% free throw shooting. I don’t know how anyone can be that bad. I never played organized bball, and I could go do better than that right now.
2) 27.8% from 3 point land while OU managed 41.7. Tommy went nuts for 5/7. Our starters were 3/6 — not bad. For some reason, our bench jacked up 12 more and only made 2. Hamilton was 1-6. WTF? I understand we don’t want our players freaking out because they are on a short leash, but 1-6 for 3 and 3-15 overall is horrible. Do you bench him after he’s missed 10? Do you just tell him not to take any more 3s?
If we shoot our season average on FTs (which still sucks) then the game comes down to a last second 3 pointer…that we would have missed.
I think you bench him after he takes either 2 contested shots or 3 3 pointers
…unless he makes 2 of the 3’s or both of the contested shots.
TEXAS FIGHT
You are correct, PB! I expect much more from this team w/ the prior results produced on the court.
I appreciate your insight into this issue. I do tend to get overheated given the amount of talent on this team and the lack of results on the floor. Thus, I make conclusory statements regarding Rick Barnes and his ability to lead this team. Maybe that’s my reaction to Texas sports nowadays given the amount of success we have had over the past decade? I’m not entirely sure.
Yet, I do still have legitimate concerns about recruiting and the approach taken by this staff. I think there has been a major misevaluation of talent or a targeting of wrong players over the past five years. Before I explain why, let’s look at the recruits since 2005:
2005
A.J. Abrams — solid contributor all four years (no complaint)
Craig Winder - bench warmer bench warmer
J.D. Lewis -
Calvin Miles — NBA
2006 (best haul by far)
D.J. Augustin - brillant PG unquestionably the best recruit Texas has had
Kevin Durant -
Matt Hill — has not contributed substantially
Justin Mason — good defensive player, yet lacks offensive prowess
Dexter Pittman - has developed, but questions still linger about his ability (particularly his ability to stay on the court) transferred
Harrison Smith -
Damion James — solid player on the defensive end at times, but up and down on the other end.
2007
Dogus Balbay — solid defensive player, but inept on offense
Clint Chapman — plays sparingly
Gary Johnson — solid 6th man on both ends of the floor
Alexis Wangmene — not a threat on the offensive side of the ball
2008
J’Covan Brown — talented, but he seems to have fallen off the wagon recently
Varez Ward — injured, yet looks to have promise
2009
Avery Bradley — combo guard
Jordan Hamilton — pure shooter
Shawn Williams — don’t know much about him so I will not make a judgment.
Here’s the problem I see and I would like to get your opinion on it (particularly PB). But before my analysis begins, I must preface this by saying my father is a Kentucky Wildcat basketball fan. Before John Wall and Calipari surfaced in Lexington, UK was led by Tubby Smith who was well known for his team’s ability to play defense, yet were inept on the offensive side of the ball (including FTs).
In my opinion, Texas is recruiting guys who are above average on defense, yet are questionable on the offensive side of the ball as UK did before the arrival of Calipari. As my grandfather says, “Defense is all want to!” The ability to shoot the ball cannot be taught at the next level, but I believe defensive skills can particularly if that is Barnes’ specialty. The only pure shooters we have seen recently are Kevin Durant and A.J. Abrams. How often did those guys miss FTs or open 3 pointers?
With that said, I do realize that basketball recruitment is more national than football, but I still think that Texas has missed out of some great recruits inside our state lines, including but not limited to Willie Warren, Tommy Mason Griffin, Anthony Jones et al by focusing too much on out of state recruits that fit Barnes’ mold (hard-nosed defensive player), rather than finding players that can shoot the ball and learn to play defense. I know the motto “Defense wins championships,” but I don’t know if that necessarily holds true in basketball all the time. Barnes can teach defense, but can’t teach an 18 year old to shoot.
Hopefully, I have given you a little more insight into my thoughts. Thought?
I appreciate your taking the time to reply
And to lay out a meaningful discussion of an idea. That, I’m always for seeing more of at the site.
As for your thoughts, you’ve outlined a couple arguments in there. These are my thoughts:
(1) I think that the helpful chart of each recruiting class actually cuts against your suggestion that Texas should be recruiting exclusively in-state. If most of the contributors you don’t like as much are being brought to UT from in-state, that suggests to me that we should broaden the pool of players we consider, not narrow it. The problem with national recruiting in theory is that it can be inefficient and prohibitively expensive/difficult to implement. That’s a fair assessment of why football teams mostly recruit from within their region. The same problems are not present in hoops recruiting, because (1) there are far, far fewer of the prospects and (2) they all play together, in the same leagues and at the same camps. In football, some of the talent is well-known, but far more of the process involves you going out to find the talent; the name of the game is evaluation. In basketball, you have all the talent laid out in front of you; the name of the game is bringing them to your school.
(2) I’ll just note that the list demonstrates comfortably that whatever his other faults, recruiting talent to Texas is not one of them. To say he can do better is not to say it’s a weakness. There aren’t many schools that Texas is trailing over the last 5 years of recruiting. I’m not sure I see what you perceive as a weakness here.
(3) I come from a long line of Kentuckians, so I watched many, many UK games when Tubby was at the helm. First, it should be said that he won a national title. Second, though they didn’t always tear through the tournament as they did the regular season, he regularly comprised top-rate teams that pushed 30 wins. And third, to say “Rick Barnes is mimicking Tubby Smith at Kentucky” may well suggest some things he can focus on to improve, but it simply doesn’t in any way support the conclusion, “We shouldn’t want Rick Barnes.” This, of course, was the big point of my post: point out his flaws and where you think he can improve, but be careful not to confuse “areas for improvement” with “fatal flaws warranting his replacement.”
(4) And finally, Texas is struggling right now, but let’s not be confused about the fact that as much of the problem is defensive as it is offensive. Somewhere along the way Rick Barnes got tagged with the “great defense, no offense” coach, it stuck, and it’s now conventional wisdom. Unsurprisingly, such a neat storyline is oversimplified, and the truth is that Barnes is neither a defensive wizard nor an offensive imbecile. I’ve mentioned this at BON several times over the past year, and I’ll do so again: in recent years, Texas has been a better offensive team than defensive team. The 2007 team was a high-flying offensive unit that struggled to develop fast enough on defense to match their offensive prowess. The 2008 team was a very good offensive team that met its match only when it faced opponents with big guards Abrams and Augustin couldn’t deal with defensively. The point, really, is this: there are many reasons Rick Barnes’ Texas teams have thrived and stumbled, and those reasons are not remotely captured by “good defense, poor offense.” Sometimes, the opposite has been true. Multiple times, teams have been roughly equally good at both aspects of the game. And in every case, the full analysis of what’s happening — good and bad — involves many factors, that vary across different years, over different aspects of the game, and so on.
In sum, I appreciate the weaknesses you’ve identified as needing improvement, and think you’ve got some interesting ideas on how Barnes might approach them. However, I do not think they in any way support the conclusions you want to draw about replacing Barnes. If you can channel your criticisms into a framework that doesn’t shut out Barnes’ myriad strengths, you’ll be talking in a language I can speak.
You ain't hurt...
I think one thing that would go a long way
in helping to evaluate Rick Barnes is if I new what the goals of the Texas basketball program were. After thinking about it, I don’t think I have ever read, heard, or seen Rick Barnes state the goals of the program. That may be one thing Rick could learn from Mack and Augie. I’ve heard Mack more times than I can remember say that their expectation each year is to win the Big 12 title and challenge/play for the national championship. With Augie, it’s win the Big 12 title and make it to Omaha. i don’t think I’ve ever heard this from Rick. For all I know, the goals could be to challenge for the Big 12 title and make the tournament, in which case he is doing a bang up job. Anyone have any insight on this?
Great questions
I would love to know his goals also
As bad as that game thread was
greenspointexas took the day off today from posting.
As far as Barnes’ recruiting, there’s obviously nothing wrong with going out of state. Hilarious that someone would criticize him for not solely recruiting in-state, considering all the flak Mack gets for not being able to get the out-of-state blue chippers (not this year of course with Jordan Hicks).
What Barnes needs to look out for in the future is who he’s recruiting, not where. Easy to say this now in hindsight, but both Brown and Hamilton did not play organized basketball last year. I think it’s reasonable to say this hiatus was a big distraction in their development, though I’m sure they’ll be fine eventually. How long will it take though?
In football, you can sign 25-30 guys in one class. In basketball, you’re limited to just a few, depending on scholarship availabilities. It’s much easier to say in retrospect that Barnes screwed up by not recruiting Warren or TMG or whoever else in a sport where you’re forced to choose just a few diamonds from a diamond mine.
KU did not look very impressive against Nebraska. I’m calling it right now, we’re going to beat the #1 ranked Jawhawks and look very impressive doing it in two days. If any team can suddenly turn it on in time for March, it’s this team loaded with very young, but very talented players.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 6, 2010 11:26 PM CST reply actions
My thoughts on the situation are this
As I stated in the other thread I think it says a lot about Barnes and this program the simple fact that the fans are displeased. When he came onto the scene Texas would regularly go through these kinds of skids, and I promise they would not still be in the 15 after one.
Barnes has set an expectation that was no here at anytime before he got here. The simple fact that people are not happy with the way to team has played the last 3 weeks is great, because before Barnes there was no such thing as disappointment in the basketball team.
Lets not forget, Mack Brown had the same kinda of criticism before we had that magical run in 2005.
-“He can’t win the big game”
-“He can’t coach in game”
-“He can’t develop players”
-“His offense sucks”
Sound familiar?
I am with PB here, Barnes has done a lot for this program and I am not going to be one that wants anything but him coaching the basketball team.
"The best decision I ever made was coming to Texas," James said. "The second-best decision was coming back."
Well welcome to the business
of college and professional sports, where you often become a victim of your own success. May not be fair, but that’s the way it is.
Mack Brown still gets this criticism
Now it’s, can he do this without a legendary player like Vince Young?
In Barnes case, we’ve had a few legendary players that could carry the team the way Young did (Ford, Durant, Augustin). Unfortunately, either we didn’t have a good enough supporting cast, or by the time we did have one, the great player left early for the draft. It’s been well-documented how many great teams we could potentially have if our players stayed 3-4 years. It’s a much bigger issue for Rick than Mack. Brown doesn’t have to worry about one and dones, and even 2 years and done. In the case of C.J. Miles, it was straight to the NBA draft from high school. If he went to college, it would be Texas.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 7, 2010 12:28 AM CST up reply actions
Offense?
I only ended up watching most of the second half. What truly amazes me is how there is little to no offensive sets for the Longhorns. Check this out. From about the 19 minute point to the 1 minute point, there were no more than one pass made on each offensive set!. Really. Go look. It was like a playground, whoever touched the ball, took it upon themselves to go 1 on 5 and shoot it…every time.
I grew up in Chapel Hill, NC, and Dean Smith had a rule. If you shot the ball after the first pass, and it didn’t go in or wasn’t a layup, you immediately came out of the game. I’m amazed Barnes has so little control or discipline over this team that each and every player believes it their turn or right to shoot the ball every time they handle it.
And, the freshman Hamilton is the absolute worst. Does it even matter to him if he has teammates? He’ll shoot it any way he can— double pump, hook, whatever— as long as he gets his shot attempts in. Towards the end of the game, OU figured out there would be zero passing and started double and triple teaming the guy with the ball. James shot a key possession, left-handed, from behind the backboard, and it of course missed everything.
Sorry, this is Barne’s fault. No one else’s. Even a decent High School coach understands the basics of offensive sets.
He also might have only watched the second half....
"A lot of people look for the easy way to do anything, in swimming there is no easy way." - Eddie Reese
Yup, while true..
I route for UT over UNC each and every chance I get!
I said second half. Please review the game again.
You’ll see what I mean. It may be from 18 minutes to the 1 minute, but you should get the idea. In anycase, it’s clear there’s no rhythm or design to the offense. Who ever touches it, shoots it.
A fine set of complaints
But you should read the post, too, so that you know whether or not you actually disagree with said post.
(Hint: Criticizing Barnes is not frowned upon. It’s jumping from there to “he’s not a good enough coach to keep” that frustrates.)
You ain't hurt...
If you think Barnes is bad
You need a dose of Billy Clyde Gillispie! Him being from Texas and unemployed He is probably available. He should work cheap as we paid him millions for nothing.Good luck down the road!
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
Whatever dude, didn't work in kentucky maybe...
But look at what he did at atm, maybe he wasn’t a good fit there, but I think he would win at UT, Tech or any of the schools in Texas….imo. However, I’m guessin’ most kentucky fans are happy with their situation.
by SneezyBeltran on Feb 7, 2010 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
Until fans see an improvement
Barnes is going to continue to get blamed and I agree with that. Bad games happen especially in basketball, you might have a cold shooting night, everything could be falling for the other team, and etc. that is the way basketball goes. But the same issues keep occuring and they have been for over a month now. I could write a whole book on what I see wrong with this team, not to mention it has been talke about here a million times. I think Trips from Barking Carnival is right and there is something more going on here with this team and that falls on Barnes. Now no way shape or form am I calling for Barnes to be fired, he has put this program at a level none of us have ever seen. But when expectations are high and you fall short, well we know how bad the complaining gets.
The next up and coming Longhorns QB!
On Criticism Indeed
Way to regulate, PB, but I would like to channel Wells’ powers of keen observation here and point out that there is a Fan Post up right now about a reporter, Thayer Evans, who makes reckless, baseless claims – many of which denigrate the Longhorns – and the BON collective response was mostly “much ado about nothing, just ignore him.” So we probably shouldn’t be all that shocked when several members of the BON lash out in much the same puerile manner.
I guess there are “two kinds of dumb, a guy that gets naked and runs out in the snow and barks at the moon, and, uh, guy who does the same thing in my living room. First one don’t matter, the second one you’re kinda forced to deal with.”
And deal with it you did…though I’m pretty sure all this senseless, needless hate spewing stems from 37-21 which I predict will become the Anti-41-38. The souls simply can’t rest or leave well enough alone.
Be nobody but yourself in a world that desperately wants you to be like everybody else.
My take on the new critique rules.
If I have misread the attempt at corralling the “coach bashing” commentary then please accept my apology in advance.
We are all die-hard longhorn fans or we wouldn’t be here game-in, game-out rooting for our team in victory or defeat. It is very frustrating when your team fails to live up to expectations and lose. We are all part of a diverse fan base where some are able to articulate their frustrations better than others. Some are more emotional than others. Some are nuttier than others. But isn’t that what makes this site enjoyable? When someone goes off half-cocked (and I certainly am in that camp), I expect that my compadres here will give me the leeway and freedom to express my displeasure. We may not agree, but we should at least respect that everyone has the freedom to express their frustration no matter how nutty it might be. If we don’t agree then we can engage in that dialogue. No harm, no foul, right?
My hope is this forum continues to promote freedom of expression and thought because if that fundamental changes I predict this forum will diminish in its profound importance to Longhorn nation, or at least to those who frequent these pages. And that would be most unfortunate.
I appreciate that site management does not want to be associated with BDS (blog derangement syndrome) but, c’mon man, this is the internet. If you can’t let loose with opinionated discourse behind the wizard of oz curtain on this site then I’m afraid our BON brothers and sisters will migrate to other sites where their divergent input will be accepted.
I say let everyone have a say (including greenspointtexas). I’m sure most recognize when a post is legitimate or not. So, in a way, commentary takes care of itself.
Following a sports team is not a matter of life and death. It is a past-time. You guys do a great job of providing leading commentary to promote discussion. I say leave it at that and let the commentary fall where it may within the site guidelines of civil discourse, and to the extent required, within the guidelines of uncivil discourse (read: Beergut). :-)
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable." - Tom Landry
BON is a community, not some "wild west" frontier.
As an organized community, we try to channel the behavior of our members into constructive forms, just as any organized offline community would do. We try to create a community that is virtually nothing like other Longhorn messageboards for those people who want to discuss things intelligently rather than ape 4chan commenters, but your argument seems to be that we should allow BON to become exactly like all other Longhorn messageboards simply because this forum happens to be on the internet. But there’s nothing about the internet that mandates homogeneity. The internet is diverse and vibrant and you are welcome to seek out any community that fits your needs as a internet personality.
I cannot speak for any of the other authors, but if the commenting section turned into something approximating HornFans or its ilk, then I would feel less inclined to write intelligent commentary on the main page. Because we are all a part of the same community, you can’t divorce the commenting and FanPosts from the main page commentary, and as a result both aspects of the site interact with and affect each other. If the commenting continues to devolve, then it will have a negative effect on the site as a whole and BON will no longer be the site that we all enjoy now.
There is nothing wrong with emotion and there is nothing wrong with criticism or divergent opinions. Problems only arise for BON when that emotion and criticism is channeled in unproductive ways. That’s all PB is trying to say in this post and it’s perfectly reasonable for him to say these things to maintain the proper sense of community as he (and we) want it to be.
I have to take issue here
we try to channel the behavior of our members into constructive forms
As long as we don’t have to think or reason the same ways. Such is diversity. We don’t have to agree to tolerate.
Problems only arise for BON when that emotion and criticism is channeled in unproductive ways.
You mean like offering a differing opinion on recruiting? Or constructing an argument differently from what a lawyer might? Should we first ask ourselves the question whether the authors would approve or disapprove of our logic before we post something?
Rhetorical questions of course with a variance of answers. Depending on who you ask. And how you construct the argument.
"If worms carried pistols, birds wouldn't eat 'em"- Darrell Royal
by SpiritOfTheFedora on Feb 7, 2010 3:12 PM CST up reply actions
Everyone's allowed to think what they want to think, say what they wanna say
My point is that if your only contributions to basketball discussion are to say that Rick Barnes sucks is that you’re not contributing to any meaningful conversation. And I’d rather BON be a place of meaningful conversations.
You ain't hurt...
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
I’m all for meaningful conversations. And I’m all for people making fools of themselves, too. BON is a more a place of the former than the latter. I just don’t think we should be calling folks out when they make a good attempt at meaningful conversation.
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable." - Tom Landry
You misunderstand.
By nature of “thinking” and “using reason” and “constructing an argument” you are being constructive. It’s not the end result of what you say that makes something constructive, it’s the thought and reason that goes into it.
Agreed
That’s why I don’t get involved much in game threads. ‘Rick Barnes sucks, LOL!!’ is not the type of thing that . On the other hand I will at least entertain the thought of limiting recruiting to in-state without a formally deductive argument to support. Briefly.
I’m rather sensitive to people attacking others’ ideas as inane because they don’t agree, I got into it with somebody last week about that.
Thanks to both for the clarification, here’s to thought, reason, diversity and tolerance.
"If worms carried pistols, birds wouldn't eat 'em"- Darrell Royal
by SpiritOfTheFedora on Feb 7, 2010 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
Rick Barnes sucks, LOL!!’ is not the type of thing that interests most people.
is what I was going to say before I interrupted myself.
"If worms carried pistols, birds wouldn't eat 'em"- Darrell Royal
by SpiritOfTheFedora on Feb 7, 2010 4:27 PM CST up reply actions
Didn't this happen with Barnes at Clemson?
He had a LOADED, returning team and was ranked high early in the season coming off a sweet 16 berth. The team fell apart and got bounced in the first round of the tournament. Clemson was about to fire him and Texas came in. Is my memory fuzzy on this?
Assistants
Maybe Barnes needs to bring in an assistant who can direct the offense. Recruiting and defense are his strengths, so get someone to coach offense. Maybe someone who knows about free throws.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
Let me also say this
BON is the best place to have any kind of discussion. And I think what PB is trying to do is keep this blog from turning into one of the other message boards. I subscribe to a couple of the other web sites, but I do not post must much simply because the other sites are a just a bunch of posters with an agenda and don’t care what you have to add to the discussion.
BON is one of the only places I can find that talk about the problem instead of jumping straight to the “fire coach Barnes” mindset. That is what makes this place great. And its not just PB, AW, GoBR (Although they are a big part of it) But its the posters in this blog as well.
"The best decision I ever made was coming to Texas," James said. "The second-best decision was coming back."
Thanks and you nailed it
BON is far from those other messages boards you mention. That is what makes us so proud of the site and of the community it fosters.
Sadly, during losses, even BON slides toward those other sites/ala talk radio and that is what is we are ALL trying to avoid.
--AW--
My take on all of it.
First off, I think for the posters who feel that their First Amendment rights have been impinged upon, I would say “Lighten UP!”. PB is not the kind of guy who is going to quash an opposing opinion that’s thought out.
That being said, I think that PB makes a very good point about the tone of the discussion(s) taking place. I give and take criticism as part of my job on a daily basis. Constructive criticism is good. Destructive criticism is not. Destructive criticism is simply the poster’s emotions spilling over. Yes, we all get emotional but when we do we risk losing perspective.
I will apply the same three rules to Rick Barnes that I applied to Mack Brown pre-National Championship:
1. Does he represent the university with class? He represents me. I hold two degrees from this institution that I love with a passion and if he pulled Mike Leach, Lane Kiffin or Jerry Tarkanian crap….I would be none too pleased.
2. The Frank Solich Rule. If we replace him, we have to bring in someone who will consistently place this team at an even higher level. If we’ve been to several Elite Eight or better appearances in five years then what we’re saying is that there’s somebody out there BETTER than this? Be careful what you wish for. It’s just not that simple.
3. Does he care about his players as people? My biggest predictor of whether I like a coach is predicated on whether or not I would allow my son or daughter to play for that coach. Jim Calhoun? Not a chance. Geno Auriemma? No effin’ way. Rick Barnes. Yes. You can bitch all you want about Bobby Knight but his players graduate and his guys all go on to be productive members of society beyond basketball. I think that Rick Barnes cares about his players on that level.
This team has problems but I see them as two main ones:
a) the free throws. If we could just hit a respectable percentage, we wouldn’t have struggled so much against K-State and OU. If you can’t hit your foul shots, then you lose a valuable tool for climbing back into games. You worked so hard to get to the line. They have trouble matching your athleticism. Capitalize.
b) lack of an offensive identitiy. We simply don’t have a “go to” scorer. For many teams that’s good but this team hasn’t learned to parlay that into multiple scoring options. If Damion can’t do it all then you’re relying on anyone of a number of dramatically inconsistent players to try and generate offense.
Just my .02…I could be wrong.
Phew
Glad you straightened us out on that one as PB’s spokesperson.
First off, I think for the posters who feel that their First Amendment rights have been impinged upon, I would say "Lighten UP!". PB is not the kind of guy who is going to quash an opposing opinion that’s thought out.
I was not asserting 1st amendment rights violations. My point is that there is no room for speech police on the internet. It is the wild-west of opinion. If you don’t like it, then either respond, or not, or get out. That’s what makes the internet so desirable.
Not sure how opinion is defined. That is why they call it such. Sure there are rules for arguing a point but are there winners and losers? Maybe. But who decides this? Everyone and no one.
Site management certainly are within their right to monitor and set out rules for engagement. Heck, it’s theirs to do with whatever they feel is necessary to deliver the kind of content-driven site we so enjoy. I don’t have a problem with that. My point is I hope PB’s commentary is not misinterpreted as controlling. Note I did “apologize in advance” if I misread the purpose of said commentary. If I did misunderstand then so be it. Let me know. Don’t have a problem with admitting when I’m wrong.
So, in other words, I say lighten up (um, in general). We need to laugh a little more. Even if it’s this goofy effort at affirming my point. It’s all good whichever way the opinion winds may blow.
And profs to you. Your eval of evaluating Coach Barnes work product and the team’s woes and ills is spot on and well articulated. Agree 100%.
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable." - Tom Landry
Jai Lucas and Rick Barnes
im all for him going back to Florida. People have been sayin well give him a few more games to develope for about 3 months now and im not seeing anything to speical. he throws up these retarded shots in the closing minutes of the game when there is still 10+ on the shot clock and an open teammate waiting for a pass that he will never get from Jai. the kid is a ball hog and a huge waste of space. Jordan Hamilton i think could be good but Rick Barnes needs to pick his main players and play them the majority of the game and make the others work for a starting spot instead of giving everybody equal amounts of time.
While most are dreaming of success, winners wake up and work hard to achieve it.
This is the reason I prefer baseball threads, although there's the occasional beerguttin'....
I’m sure people were mad and stuff, etc, but like billy zane said earlier, it’s not just some wild west forum, where you just say whatever stupid shit pops up in your head. That is what makes the blog different from some of the others. I always like to brag about burntorangenation and always tell people to try it, b/c it’s not like most blogs…..good writers, intelligent people, etc. I was just tellin’ my sis to convince her boss to give it a try as he spends most of his time on orangebloods.
I don’t blame PB for saying what he said as he and the other writers spend a lot of time making this blog great, along with so many of the people that post on here. If he called you out, it is what it is. I remember being corrected on some of my first posts and I’m a better man because of it, haha
Now if only everybody knew how to use the fanposts and fanshots…..
Agreed 100%, except....
if I recall correctly on the baseball threads…we were somewhat calling for Augie’s head for pulling Keyes in the 7th inning for no reason. Of course, when there are 25 innings, we tend to get a little out of our heads. We at least had an excuse. :)
Get off your knees Greg, you're blowin' the game.
I'm pretty sure that was ok kriess when we called for Augie's head that game....
My eyes hurt after staring at my damn computer for 5 hrs and think I had a cramp or 2 in my hand. I don’t think Augie’s gonna take out keyes early during any games this year….and if he does, mark my words, it’s ok if anybody calls for his head. It will be a rational thought.
by SneezyBeltran on Feb 8, 2010 1:02 AM CST up reply actions
especially since he continued to do it for the duration of the post season
Get off your knees Greg, you're blowin' the game.
Thank you for this, Peter
Maybe I’m being uncharitable to Texas fans and this is what happens everywhere, all the time, about everything (there’s some truth to that, no doubt)
Even though this post is obviously of direct impact to your community, I hope you understand how incredibly universal this message can be. I think it’ll be of tremendous utility to our own readership (and many other fan bases) as well.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
