Character attacks, insults: A rant
BON used to be all about the discussion, the debate, the quasi-intellectual inquiries tangent to our beloved Longhorns. My first season on BON was the 2005 football season, so we didn't have much to bitch about. But following that season, even if things went awry on the field, BON posters maintained a sense of respect and humility in their comments. Today, BON is still a better source of news and discussion board than, say, Dallas Morning News online, but it's fallen a step or two. It's a nice website, but I feel that the integrity of the BON community is compromised when posters spout off hateful shit.
Immediately after Wake Forest destroyed our dreams of getting slaughtered by Kentucky, the dams gave way and some posters really let the venom spew. Some posts were unfair, and I responded with the following:
I'm sick of the personal attacks on the players. Did some of them suck at times? Yes. Does that give fans license to be complete assholes? No. Some didn't live up to YOUR expectations, but guess what, they busted their asses for their team, their coaches, their university, and (even though sometimes we don't deserve it) they busted their asses for us.
Why all the fucking ad hominem attacks? It's not enough to say "damn I'm frustrated with Jordan Hamilton's shot selection." Instead people suggest or declare outright that he's just stupid. Perhaps it's not that he's stupid or selfish, but that he was so fucking uptight, and so desperate to make things happen for his team that he threw up bad shots or drove with the ball when he should have passed. Fuck, I'm so frustrated with the personal attacks, the bitching (yes, I'm bitching right now, I realize the irony).
Pittman? Here are the typical points: He's lazy. He doesn't care about this team. He's a failure. It's obvious by the way he....fouls easily, misses close range shots? I'm not sure how he's a failed project. He came in as a three star 400 pound butterball.
Mason? Oh this guy -- just a loser, right? Fuck no. This guy did every damn thing he could. He swallowed his pride, and played his ass off. And for those with selective memories, he had a handful of really nice performances this season, especially right after Dogus went down. And even if he didn't have good performances, he doesn't deserve the hostility. Shit, some people are deluded, that somehow they're entitled to fling personal attacks from their computer.
JCB. Head case, right? Look at this guy jack shots, practically begging the team to fast break the other way. Yeah, he made some bad passes and took some sorry shots. But at some point, some posters shifted from critiquing his game to questioning his character. Like he's selfish or petulant, arrogant, no wonder his HS coach kicked him off the team, right? Fuck that.
I'm done with this section about the players. I saw the poor play, too. Pittman, Hamilton, Mason, others all had flaws in their game this year. Sometimes players plateau. Barnes has a lot to do with it, i agree. But damn, let's keep it above the belt. Imagine how pissed you felt when you heard Aggies calling Colt a pussy after that nasty Kellen Heard hit. (yeah, slightly different context). But there's some line that most of us can sense that separates personal attacks from critiques of one's game or abilities. An aside, I would approve of personal attacks if the kid was a verifiable asshole (ripping on teammates, getting arrested for armed robbery, etc) Some feel just fine hurling insults and questioning these kids' character. I think that this sort of behavior falls under the "dick move" classification. Steve Polycronopolous would insult the kid instead of the kid's game. You know what Steve Polycronopolous is? A self-proclaimed dick.
Cooling down now. I just blew my top after reading through some of these comments. I noticed some F-bombs, plenty of shit flying down on Pittman. (really? it's the end of the season, just lost a pretty exciting game against a deserving opponent, and people rush to proclaim Pittman's failure of a career? Really? That's the headline?) God, Texas fans are so entitled. It's a nice feeling, being able to expect 11-1 seasons in football, CWS every summer, and top 25 basketball. I just wish people could appreciate that instead of ripping the kids who provide all these pleasures of being on top of the college sports world.
All comments, FanPosts, and FanShots are the views of the reader-authors who create them.
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Comments
I agree that the...
juvenile aspects of BON have been creeping up in game threads. It is time for the participants here to tone it down over a loss. It is a game. Nothing more. I get passion. I get love for your school and alma mater. What I do not get is the personal attacks on our own for being human and not the best team in the college basketball world.
Yes, this team did not live up to expectations. I recall the Aggies clamoring for the firing of RC Slocum…they got their wish…say, how is football these days in Aggieland? Appreciate what you have peeps…it could be so much worse.
Hook’Em!
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." ~ Will Muschamp
""I always felt like, and I paid a price for it, that it didn't seem right for one guy to bring me down." ~ The Tyler Rose
by Mulliganville on Mar 19, 2010 2:25 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
in all fairness
I don’t want to discount the vast majority of posters who add productive, positive, energetic, or insightful contributions to this forum. Additionally, I would classify much of the criticism found on BON as productive. It’s the reactionary, inflammatory, quasi-slanderous crap that gets me going.
Nice write up...
I wish that those people that say those things would listen to these posts. I myself have posted the same post as you and I know PB has done it numerous times on here. It is because of those people that I do not participate in live game threads anymore or read the comments about a disappointment or even a celebration thread. It is sad to because there really are a ton of good people on here that provide good productive posts, I may not always agree with them, but at least you can sit and have an intelligent debate with them.
Yes I know games get frustrating and sometimes people lose their cool and may shout something stupid out, god knows I have, but it actually takes a special person to go out of their way 20-30 seconds after a play has happened and type something stupid on here.
The next up and coming Longhorns QB!
Well...
…yes, I have come to expect that posts on this site generally not be of the juvenile, name-calling variety. But… a lot of the criticism leveled against the players over the last few weeks of the season was justified. After all, it is a valid opinion that Barnes has been recruiting a bunch of hot-shot young athletes who just might not have the greatest personal character or basketball I.Q.
To address those you mentioned: Perhaps Jordan can rightfully be called stupid or selfish for making minimal progress after a full season. Pittman has consistently played lazily and his nonchalant attitude does not express concern for the team. I think Mason played admirably and I do not understand the venom some posters have spewed at him. J’Covan does play like he is “selfish or petulant, arrogant.”
I see no fault in calling a spade a spade. Obviously, it should be done as tactfully and intelligently as possible.
Your comments illustrate the cloudy line of demarcation
between acceptable and unacceptable criticism. At some point criticism of on court performance crosses over, it goes too far. It’s the difference between saying that Hamilton took a stupid shot saying that he is stupid.
I have no problem calling a spade a spade either, when my critique is informed. I wonder how many folks on this board have had enough personal interaction with JH to declare that he, as opposed to his shot selection, is stupid or selfish.
Aside from the criticism discussion, your assessment of JH’s progress is just wrong. His improvement, however one measures it, was surely something more than minimal.
Negatives
Negative things can be said about anybody. A responsible critic has a duty to point those things out and can do so without making a statement into an attack. But mindreading and armchair psychiatry are probably not helpful.
In the sporting world we like to pretend that a player’s success somehow reflects his character. Thus our anger with guys like Tiger Wood. What we sometimes see here at BON is the same sort of thing — assuming that failure on the court has something to do with the player’s character. And so we decide that someone must be stupid or lazy or stubborn.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
by Caradoc on Mar 19, 2010 10:19 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Wow
I am sure you have all played basketball before. It is not a difficult sport to pick up, yet the members of the UT basketball team consistently showed that they did not grasp simple constructs of the game. The team could not defend the pick and roll, could not escape traps by dribbling or passing, and teammates refused to come back to the ball and had passes stolen all year. At some point it becomes necessary to question the intelligence of these players.
You just don't get it
BON used to be a haven from moronic posters that blindly threw insults at players. It’s perfectly reasonable to intelligently discuss a players lack of ability, but to attack them as a person is what we came come here to avoid. If you want the typical internet mob mentality, take it somewhere else. We’ll have our rational discussions here. Thanks.
Maybe you should be a TV commentator.
It’s a little easier to criticize 18-22 year old players from the comfort of your couch and a 50" plasma, that’s for sure. Anybody who has played high-level BBall knows that “grasping the constructs” and performing perfectly in game pressure in an NCAA tourney are 2 completely different things. What if the other team is just better than you? Interesting concept. What if UT is loaded with underclassmen and Wake Forest starts 4 seniors & an all-conference sophomore? Wow, didn’t think of that.
I’ll betcha that my “intelligence” is greater than atleast a few of those UT BBall kids but I guarantee you that they’d run circles around me (& you) on the court. Just because they didn’t go undefeated this season has NOTHING to do with their “intelligence”. & I’m sure they’re a little more personally disappointed with this season’s ending than any of us hacks ever will be. You’ve proved Kool Hand’s original post accurate & displayed your OWN intelligence. Choose your words more carefully next time.
by robthecob on Mar 19, 2010 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And, yes, it IS a difficult sport to pick up. If it was easy, everyone would always be a winner.
Rick Barnes: 15 straight tourney appearances, several Sweet 16s, and a Final Four appearance. This is one of the guys who HAS picked it up.
Absolutely!
I wonder how many teams made the NCAA Tournament after losing both of their top two starting PGs to season-ending injuries?
Fifteen consecutive trips to the NCAA Tournament is a heck of an accomplishment! Yet, some can’t seem to understand their own expectations were way overblown.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
I hate the way Dex played most of this year. He seemed soft. Not in the sense that he was pudgy, but in that he wasn’t aggressive. With his size, 10 pts and 10 rbs should have been his minimum average on the year. To some extent, he did seem lazy on the court. I remember his quote about [James is such a good rebounder i just let him get it].
However, the guy did lose 100+ pounds, and I would never generalize him to be just be some lazy bastard in all aspects of life.
I’m not sure the comments will improve. BON is getting to be too big. It started out as a select group of people who probably shared a lot of qualities. That is what made it such a good place. That also made it a good place for everyone to come. Popularity increase, and now you have everyone in the curve coming (think of class). You no longer have a subset of the population that was at the top of the curve. You have everyone. Including trolls from Oklahoma. It all goes down hill when they show up.
I was thinking that..
..how many new people have come over due to the Facebook advertising? Some just are suited for BON, and would better be suited to Shaggybevo or something.
by vy til i die on Mar 19, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Too big
BON will be too big when there get to be too many comments to read on a topic that interests me. With 80% good comments, I can handle the other 20%.
When you get a winning team, you attract a flock of adrenalin junkies trying to hitchhike onto the high. When they don’t get their fix they scream fire the coach and then disappear. Then things settle back to normal. In fact, we are just now headed for the dead part of the BON year, once spring football finishes and baseball is all we have left.
The only time we really get overcrowded is after a big event like the MNC or OU game, when we get inundated with “visitors” who want to talk some trash.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
Thanks Kool Hand
Ever since I’ve been here, which is admittedly not overly long, I’ve had this same conversation with some of the earlier BONizens. On the whole, this community is something to be quite proud of. Most of the posters here can keep their cool when shit’s going badly. Admittedly, we all lose it sometimes, and some more than others. This is a big blog, so we also have to deal with lots of troll BS and keep our own members from flying off the handle sometimes. The irony of it all is that’s what we’re here for – to keep the lid on things and keep ourselves from going on a killing spree when Jamaal fumbles on the goal line (F#*&!!!!!).
Everyone knows how the malicious posters end up – crawling back to the holes from whence they came, tails between their legs. We’ll take care of our own, and our site, and our nation. This isn’t a fan site as much as it is a community. I keep coming back to this blog because of the excellent writing (whether or not i’m wearing burnt orange-tinted glasses) and the overall attitude that this community has. I’ve been on here way too often after a ridiculous fanshot gets posted (ala FIRE RICK BARNES), we quickly post our take, and PB comes out somewhere in the mix and tells how much he wants to start a Church or Royal with the lot of us.
My point is this: we’ve got a handle on things. Sometimes we’ve gotta put up with shit. What would a community be without the belligerent village idiot and the troll? We’ve all played the role of the former at some point or another…gotta stay away from those rum runners.
by The Mack Attack on Mar 19, 2010 5:00 PM CDT reply actions
also
players are exactly that. they’re kids, and they are learning. chill the fuck out guys. win as a team, lose as a team. end of story.
by The Mack Attack on Mar 19, 2010 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
exactly
its easy to say these kids arent giving their all when all you see is their weaknesses and the mistakes they make during games. but you cant talk shit about them until you go see how they practice. basketball has been their lives, their dreams. of making it to the college level and further. do they make mistakes? yes. but who doesnt? they have given their all and have dedicated themselves to getting better.
I love when people tell me what to do
Thanks robthecob. I have never been on BON and attacked an athlete. I can tell intelligent players from those who are not though. So, maybe you should just keep from personalizing anything on the internet- you know its not like we will ever meet.
There were better teams this year...period.
It was not about defending this or that…this team feasted on inferior competition with a couple of exceptions. The better teams won. Lack of execution does not equal lack of intelligence. This is the issue I suspect some will take with your stance here.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." ~ Will Muschamp
""I always felt like, and I paid a price for it, that it didn't seem right for one guy to bring me down." ~ The Tyler Rose
by Mulliganville on Mar 20, 2010 3:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks, Kool
Rec’d it yesterday but hadn’t say down to chime in.
First of all, thanks for taking the time to articulate that there are, or at least should be, standards in this community. A few others have chimed in about how much bigger the site has become, and there’s truth to that, and it’s not the same vibe that it used to be. That is not to say, as others commented and your Fan Post nicely demonstrates, that the two are mutually exclusive. The vibe at BON is different than when there were a couple hundred readers a day, but I do still feel positively about this place as a community. The exchange flaminhmonkeyass and I just had about Rick Barnes is a great example of this place still thriving in the area it matters most: a place for civil, thoughtful discourse, even when we disagree.
Your post reminds me that in an ideal world I’d have gotten started long ago on a project I’ve been meaning to for some time now, but has never quite risen to the first page of the to-do list. It would be great (and the SBN blog platform has the tools) to set things up formally where we empower so-called ‘trusted’ members to serve as community moderators. Our policy is and always will be to let people be say stupid things over and over (or just once) — we’re not ever going to start deleting content because it’s crappy — but your post brings up the issues that community moderators can helpfully enforce: basic standards of the community, of decency, respect, and openness.
And finally, this conversation reminds me that one of the most important skills to happily navigating a forum that is both big and big on free speech, is to train yourself not to respond to fools to whom you’ve got nothing nice to say. This is not related to the issue in the Fan Post; just on-topic as I talk aloud about this. One day the sun will come up and Beergut will say something completely moronic and everyone will just shrug.
Thanks again, Kool.
You ain't hurt...
by Peter Bean on Mar 20, 2010 10:01 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
"train yourself not to respond to fools to whom you’ve got nothing nice to say.."
I hope this does not apply to beergut replies…ever. :)
Beergut, you are the official BON whipping boy. We appreciate your patronage more than you know.
Well said.
This should be reposted when the football season resumes. Every time certain names come up- Chris Sims, Greg Davis, etc. – everyone needs to keep this in mind.
by dimecoverage on Mar 21, 2010 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
agreed
Kool’s post illustrates why I find it increasingly difficult to even get into discussions on here anymore. Bring back the good ole days, please.
by Jason Mayer on Mar 21, 2010 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Couldn't agree with you more JM.
I still look at the site daily , but some of the posters need to tone it down. I just elect to keep my mouth shut…..
"Nobody leaves this field until we beat the hell out of them".................... L.J."Louis"Jordan in 1913 before kickoff of the Texas/ou game.
by ouALWAYSsux on Mar 22, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Exactly on Point
thanks for saying what needed to be articulated
I Find It Ironic...
…that PB and the other mods actually take the effort to close a thread like the anti-beergut one, but then they allow all those ’Bama fakers to roam free on the board during the run-up to and during the National Title game. I mean, it was so obvious it was one or two of them just continually making fake usernames to troll the board starting trouble, but would PB and the other mods actually do anything about it? Nope, not a damn thing. I had to endure them continually making one insulting fanpost after another after another. But one guy makes a thread about the dumb things beergut has said and BOOM! PB falls on him like the wrath of God.
Whatever. I like BON, but sometimes you guys are such pussies with your selective “modding”.
In-VINCE-able.
A few things
I’m not going to talk as a “mod,” since I don’t really consider myself one like the old-timers here, but I’ll talk as a member of this community for the past few years.
1. The mods aren’t always around, especially around a rather large event like the NC game. They may be going to the game or at the very least with friends and family, and don’t necessarily have the time to scan the boards for people to toss out.
2. Most of the time, it’s best to just ignore trolls. I banned a couple of people right after the game because it was getting a bit overwhelming, but even here, I look back and know that I was a little bit on edge, like the rest of us were, and did not fully embody the level of discourse we at BON want. It’s annoying when people show up just to cause trouble, but at the same time, we don’t want people to refrain from posting unpopular opinions and be zealous with banning. Most of the time, if they’re just trolling, simply ignoring them makes them go away. When you’re feeling particularly irritable (like I was after the NC game), it can be hard to resist flinging mud back at trolls, so I understand how exasperating it gets. But again, if they’re ignored, they normally leave.
3. Moderating between members is much more important than policing the random troll that shows up. When a fanpost pops up from one of our own like the one about Beergut, its more important to communicate to him the expectations of discussion here rather than pounce on every bozo that shows up to get a cheap laugh, because those people aren’t planning to stick around.
4. For as long as I’ve been reading this blog, it’s always been relatively self-policing. In other words, I think BON has a pretty intelligent readership that knows how to keep the level of discussion high. When the members sort out the trolls and obnoxious posters ourselves, I think it sends a stronger message of what this community is about rather than striking every annoying person with the banhammer.
5. The mods aren’t perfect and don’t read every post and comment. Cut them a little slack.
I’m not trying to talk for PB or anyone else, but this is the culture I’ve observed over my time here. I hope that helps you understand why, perhaps, the members (and mods) may seem to be harder on each other than on trolls. Besides, Beergut has been around a long time, and he alternates between good contributions and bizarre Aggy analysis. It’s not new that he may say things from time to time that we find crazy, so why bother with a post about it?
by TheElusiveShadow on Mar 23, 2010 3:06 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Falling on him like the wrath of God? Really?
“I disapprove. This reflects badly on us as a community. We can do better.”
Wrath of God, huh? C’mon man. Be real. Try, anyway.
Look, there are two kinds of moderating that we do. The first kind is mostly non-action: we don’t delete content unless it violates the community standards (e.g. racist remarks, etc). The second kind we do is actively try to shut down personal attacks.
If you can understand the difference between the two, you’ll understand why we’ll let Beergut analyze sports with his comically Aggie perspective and yet also moderate those whose response to his foolishness is to personally attack him. As we’ve said a million times, either engage his dumb ideas on the merits, or ignore him.
(And thanks, Elusive Shadow. Well said in your reply.)
You ain't hurt...
Being the Dinosaur
that I am,seldom have I ever seen a UT team quit.
They can get behind but they still play hard and don’t quit.After Colt got hurt in the championship game that team could have quit.They didn’t they fought back.
I think it is the general opinion of the fans that some of the players on the basketball team quit on us.This is why the consternation.
Before nobody cared about basketball.Now it seems like they do.It hurts a bit to admit Baylor and A$M are better than us in anything.
Maybe this season will lead to a better future in basketball.Everything is in place for us to be an elite team each and every year.
by TCB Orange Dino on Mar 24, 2010 12:45 PM CDT reply actions

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