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Realignment Chronicles: That Upon Which We And Mike Leach Might Agree

For supporters of the University of Texas who are concerned about the fate of the school and its athletics programs as it looks to best position itself in the upcoming round of Conference Realignment Armageddon, your potential worst enemy is...

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Kent-hance-1-sized_medium

...Kent Hance, former U.S. Congressman and Texas Railroad Commissioner, current Chancellor of the Texas Tech University System, and close friend of former Aggie cheerleader and present Texas Governor Rick Perry.

For those of you wondering what I'm doing posting here, Peter has asked me to channel my rather unhealthy obsession with conference realignment into doing some occasional blogging here on BON on the subject.   I greatly appreciate the opportunity to do so, and what I've decided I want to so with this forum, rather than to continually speculate about what Texas might want to do or should do, is to try and establish the parameters within Texas can act.  There are some real questions out there which remain unanswered.

To me, the question of the political realities which Texas will face within the state legislature best illustrates the lack or real reporting which has been done by real reporters.  It seems as though any article discussing what Texas might do will reference, in the most general terms, the political hurdles Texas will encounter.  But unless I've missed it, I haven't seen anyone analyze what those specific hurdles are today.  It's 2010, not 1994, and Bob Bullock, Pete Laney, Ann Richards and David Sibley are no longer on the scene.

For example, I can scream until I'm blue in the face about how pursuing an invite to the Big 10 would be the best path for Texas, but if the political realities are such that Texas Tech and Baylor remain legislatively shackled to UT's ankles, I would need to seriously recalibrate what I believe the best-case scenarios would be for Texas.  And up to now, I haven't had any specific insight into what those political realities would be.

With that in mind, I've had the chance, with Peter's great assistance, to have a conversation about the political realities of conference realignment over the past couple of days with one of the keenest and best-known observers of Texas politics out there.  Though I am allowing our observer to share some thoughts anonymously, you'll have to trust me when I say that you should take this observer's thoughts very seriously. 

The key takeaways from our conversation:

  • A&M gets to come along for the ride.  We instinctively knew this, but it's good to get a confirmation.  There's a "strong feeling here that A&M and UT are joined at the hip," and it is "almost inconceivable" to consider that the two schools would be apart.  Our observer believes that the two schools hold a mutual veto over each other and would use this veto if it appeared as though one school had an escape plan and the other didn't.  The role of Gov. Perry would become prominent, and our observer cannot imagine that Perry would allow Texas to leave without A&M unless A&M had "an equally good alternative."
  • Kent Hance is good buds with Rick Perry.  OK, now we're getting into the realm of understanding which specific individuals might play the roles Bullock and Sibley did in the 1990s.  And though Hance isn't in the Legislature, he's been around the Texas political scene long enough to have enough clout to potentially muck this whole thing up if he chose to do so.  Our observer notes that Hance and Perry are close friends, and our observer envisions Hance doing "everything in his power" to get Perry to look out for Tech's best interests.  And we've seen from the dirty laundry of the Mike Leach affair the extent to which Hance will involve himself with the football program.
  • At the end of the day, Texas + A&M should nullify Tech.  Particularly if the situation evolves to the point at which the Big XII will lose several schools regardless of what the Texas schools do and the conference finds itself quickly on the path to becoming the SWC II.  But our observer threw in a "I could be wrong on this" caveat here which wasn't thrown in elsewhere in our conversation.
  • Baylor is "doomed."  No Ann Richards and no David Sibley?  So long, Bears.  The legislative forces backing Baylor do not seem to pose a risk to the chances of Texas and A&M moving on.

In practical terms, if our observer is correct, scenarios in which Texas would accept an invite to be the only new school added to the Big 10, or in which Texas and Colorado alone are invited to join the Pac 10, are much less likely to happen than some (including me) have speculated.  And scenarios in which Texas and A&M move, but don't move first, make more sense.

(On a go-forward basis, please feel free to make suggestions on topics which could use further investigation.  In addition to pursuing the specific political angles and looking into which other politicians might play prominent roles, I also want to take a closer look at the proposed Longhorn Sports Network to see if one could realistically guess how profitable such a network could be.  The greater the potential profitability, the greater flexibility one would presume Texas would have in determining its future path.  But I'm very open to suggestions: please feel free to comment below or to email me at "eyesoftexas [at] gmail".)

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this article, I’d put it in the category of “I’ll believe it when I see it.” A completely unsourced article that has the Big 10 expanding by the illogical number of four, and with the Big 10 meeting completely in private to approve the issuance of the invitations.

by Hopkins Horn on May 10, 2010 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that's why when I linked it

I decided against putting it on the front page unlike the other SB Nation sites. Not only does it not directly concern Texas (well… it kinda does), it ultimately came from a sports radio station. So I’m skeptical, but as far as the Big 10 targeting Missouri, it is isn’t unlikely.

by TheElusiveShadow on May 10, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thank you, HH

That is the proper response to that news item. “Believe it when I see it.”

You ain't hurt...

by Peter Bean on May 10, 2010 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks

I’ve seen a few doozies over the past few days. If you really want to make your head hurt, check out this rumor . . . and all the subsequent commenters who seemed to take it seriously!

by Hopkins Horn on May 10, 2010 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lordy...

If I never read anything by Playoffs Now! again, it will be too soon.

You ain't hurt...

by Peter Bean on May 10, 2010 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Not so fast

the illogical number of four

It’s a power play that is likely to have not been closely followed by fans of the Big XII. Nebraska and Mizzou, OK, we all get that. But if (and that’s a huge if these days) the report is correct, the Big Ten would be inviting four teams with a very clear intention; to force Notre Dame’s hand, once and for all.

Let’s back up. The cat has been out of the bag for a while that the Big Ten is likely going really big to the tune of 16 schools. The writing is all but on the wall that Nebraska, Missouri and Rutgers would join in a heartbeat if invited to apply. That brings the total to 14. The effect on Notre Dame here is interesting. The doomsday scenario for the Irish is where the cover of the Big East is blown away by the Big Ten ripping the league apart and stripping its most valuable football schools away. If the already fragile league were to sustain the loss of Rutgers and any two from the pool of Syracuse, Pitt or UConn two things would be accomplished: 1)The Big East would cease to exist as a BCS conference as no available replacement schools could maintain the league’s BCS status (and schools like WVU, Louisville and South Florida [Cincy, you’re SOL] would likely be snatched up by the ACC) 2)The non-revenue affiliation the Irish hold with the conference would be greatly devalued with the loss of the largest, most powerful institutions in the conference. Because WVU, UL and USF (and the odd man out in the UConn, SU, Pitt trio) would almost all certainly end up elsewhere, Notre Dame would be left standing in a league of small, Catholic schools with a lot of prestige, but not much real power.

Here’s where the number 4 is interesting. It is meant to give Notre Dame a sense of self-determination, or in other words, appeal to their sense of pride. Clearly the Big Ten is not going to stop at a 15-team league. In leaving an extra space open for the Irish, they will be presenting simultaneously the carrot and the stick; “reject us again and forever have the door to conference membership closed on you, or come aboard and have a say on the last school.” That’s the kicker. The Big Ten wants ND so badly that they will essentially allow the Irish to pick the 16th member. Almost certainly, Notre Dame would choose the ever fickle, totally worthless (but rather competitive in everything from academics to athletics) Boston College. And that’s why a 4-team invitation isn’t as far-fetched as it sounds…or it’s complete bullshit. Who knows.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on May 11, 2010 3:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nice insight. Thanks much.

Some questions I have:

**Is there any sense that Texas (and its joined-at-the-hip partner) might attempt to be the focal point of a restructured Big 12/SWC?

**Is joiing the SEC even a possibility (on our part, or theirs), and is doing so in Texas’ long-term best interest?

**Can the school create a Longhorn Sports Network, given the confines of Big 12 rules?

by edsp on May 10, 2010 2:04 PM CDT reply actions  

Second thought, Ed: I've always loved the idea of a Texas Football Network.

The Horns essentially have their own sports network with their deal with Host Communications at the end of the Penders Era.

What I want to see is a network just dedicated to the state of Texas football…all the universities and colleges, from Big 12 down all the way to high schools. Football 24-7-365. This state has enough great football games in a year at all levels to do that. Rerun the best of them.

Do football the way it should be done, not the current national manner of a sanitized-product, narrow view fit for time slots and advertising which manages to eliminate most of the culture, pageantry and localized fun that football really is on the ground.

This is probably unrealistic the present context, but it is what I would want. My thinking here is that high touch is the antidote for high tech…and high finance, which is what that seems to be about.

I don’t care if the Big 10 brings in 10 more teams…it ain’t gonna help their football. They’re on the road to suck and this is only fixing the potholes. And, last, but not least, this is symptomatic of the BCS logic: if you were to have a real playoff, I suspect this realignment would be happening in a much different manner.

by whills on May 10, 2010 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Uh, huh.

I don’t care if the Big 10 brings in 10 more teams…it ain’t gonna help their football. They’re on the road to suck

Becoming the first conference the beat four teams ranked 16th or higher in bowls last year (including two conference champions) must really show the suck. College sports are cyclical. I’ll be glad to pop back in later this year to remind y’all of this time-proven fact.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on May 11, 2010 3:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Whoa, I'm still rocking from that tsunami.

I got three…Ohio St. over Oregon (26-17), Penn State over LSU (19-17) and Iowa over Georgia Tech (24-14), all such wonderful blow-outs. Now where’s that fourth one…Iowa State beat poor Minnesota and Leachless Tech beat Michigan State…but you’d think I’d remember such earth shattering news. And these are just frigging bowl games, it doesn’t really show much about the state of football much less the cutting edge of the game.

You can come back if you want; bad news is cyclical, too.

by whills on May 12, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh yeah, Wisconsin over Miami, 20-14.

So, where’s the frigging meat? There’s no there there.

Football time is like human-time, a spiral, a specialized form of cyclical (as referenced to classical time such as the seasons). The Chinese were aware of this 5,000 years ago. Glad to see the Big 11 keeping up.

by whills on May 12, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

You have anything more impressive, big boy?

And as for margin of victory, I’m sure the NC Game loss felt that much better to Texas because it was sorta close. Yeeeeaaah…

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on May 12, 2010 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did you just call him big boy?

On a message board? Really? That just happened?

Consider this a warning, I guess. You’re on a Texas blog. Play nice with the locals, or move along. Thanks.

You ain't hurt...

by Peter Bean on May 12, 2010 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

So only one-way trash talk over here?

All my other posts on BON are in the spirit of good debate and logical conversation, and in no way have I ever ragged on Texas or picked fights with members. Whills is jawing and I’m jawing back and, having married into a Texas family, “big boy” is hardly on the scale of what I could consider offensive.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on May 12, 2010 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just a warning

And a call to settle down, all involved. You’re welcome to post here, of course. Let’s all just keep it civil.

As for big boy? Them’s fightin words ’round here, doncha know?

You ain't hurt...

by Peter Bean on May 12, 2010 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

That was the best 3 minutes I'd spent in a while.

Fair enough on all other counts.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on May 12, 2010 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

And, I think you are heading in that direction with your statement, I wonder what it will do for his credibility moving forward as it coincides with the outcome of the Leach case.

"I live in the tower with Coach Brown." -Bevo

by run Bevo run on May 10, 2010 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Iowa state should go to big 10

Baylor should get shipped to the MWC or sun belt

by MJY6087 on May 10, 2010 2:25 PM CDT reply actions  

If I were wearing a Baylor ring,

I’d be real uncomfortable along about now. Likewise, Iowa State. Those schools (and others in other conferences) are going to get left behind as the heavy hitters realign. It’s all about dollars and TV sets, and Baylor and Iowa State are way down the list in those areas.

by edsp on May 10, 2010 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

There seems to be a simple solution

get rid of Rick Perry.I tried my best for our UT gal Kay Bailey Hutchinson but slick Rick had to much dinero to spred his inuendos on tv.

Much to my regret I will be voting forBill White at least he won’t let them burn the Goveners Mansion down or turn a budget surplus into a deficit.

Aggie gone Texas regents do what’s best for thier instution of higher learning.

by TCB Orange Dino on May 10, 2010 4:00 PM CDT reply actions  

Texas and A&M will always be tied together, no matter who is in office. Both schools are the flagship state schools.

Tech will lose in just about any deal.

by dimecoverage on May 10, 2010 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree and Should Be

Afterall – what is more fun? Being the big brother that can’t be lived up to and that continually rub little brothers nose in his own inferiority? Or just a really good only child that could be perceived as arrogant?

by realmccoy on May 10, 2010 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

TU has no choice

Lol! TU has no choice. If they dare leave A&M. We will establish a rivalry with Tech and rule the Big XII. With TU gone we will be the unquestioned big dogs in the conference.

by YUMC on May 11, 2010 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

and if TU dare leave A&M, we will rule the Big XII then and establish a new rivalry with Tech and be the big dogs in the Big XII. Our athletic department has enough money and we have several well placed alumni nationwide that will make sure we are well placed even if the big XII folds. So, I really don’t see the reason for this condescending attitude on TU’s part. Both are flagship schools and have equal clout. If TU doesn’t pull in A&M, we can then pull Tech into the deal and go to any conference we want.

by YUMC on May 11, 2010 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Warning

I think this crosses the line into the political zone. Even when discussing the state legislature, please limit your observations to sports — site rule.

Thanks.

You ain't hurt...

by Peter Bean on May 10, 2010 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

What is NCAA Power/Role?

It seems that this conference poaching that can just pull the rug from under schools and conferences is rather uncontrolled and potentially harmful to the sport. Is the NCAA powerless to stop it? Could they implement a planning process to ensure these moves are for the “good of the game”?

by realmccoy on May 10, 2010 5:09 PM CDT reply actions  

"No comment" responses from Mizzou and Nebraska

Nebraska:
“The University of Nebraska has not been offered any opportunity to move from the Big 12. We remain committed to the success of the Big 12 Conference. Until the Big 10 Conference makes and announces its decision on expansion, the University of Nebraska will have no further comment and we do not intend to continue to respond further to questions or speculations on this subject.”

Mizzou:
“The University of Missouri is receiving numerous inquiries related to public speculation about conference membership. MU is a member of the Big 12 Conference and will not respond to speculation about conference realignment. Mizzou continues to be grateful for all the interest shown in, and support for, the university.”

by 40AS on May 10, 2010 5:11 PM CDT reply actions  

I've been looking at this from an economic angle

The quick hits are that the proposed alliance between the PAC-10 and the Big 12 sounds legit. Texas and California alone represent about 20% of the entire US economy and about 25% of the US population, so some regular engagement wherein advertisers could catch a significant number of eyeballs in both states would be huge in negotiations. In the short term, such a maneuver could save the political fallout of switching conferences while offering an enhanced value to network sponsors.

But here’s an issue, and one the the Big 12 is currently dealing with poorly. In terms of eyeballs, and consequently dollars, a lot of the Big 12 doesn’t add significant value. One of the things that I suspect made negotiations for equal revenue sharing in the SEC and the Big 10 easier is the relative equality of population bases and economic value, and in the Big 10’s case, the significant non-athletic benefit brought by Northwestern. In a conference reciprocity agreement between the Big 12 and the Pac 10, the difference in value added will only be exaggerated, and over the long term I fully expect realignment even if this takes place.

I’ll write up something more detailed/coherent but it’s competing for my attention with the changes to the income sourcing rules for dividend derived notional principal contracts and a few choice sections of Subchapter K. /nerdcore.

proud to swim home

by learned hand on May 10, 2010 5:15 PM CDT reply actions  

Are you proposing . . .

. . . that a truly radical realignment might bring about that TexaCali superconference which I know at least one regular poster has theorized about?

by Hopkins Horn on May 10, 2010 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

From a pure entertainment money perspective, yes.

I have a big soft spot for the Big 10, but I think the Pac 10 may be more amenable to unequal revenue shares if there is Texas money on the table (with one huge caveat below). How unequal is a different question (first 75% distributed pro rata and the last 25% paid according to some formula would be a possible starting position).

My thoughts go something like this, the two conferences Big 12 and Pac 10 are under-preforming compared to economic potential of markets (I’m defining potential by share of the US economy and population). The SEC borders appears to be outperforming. The Big 10 is an odd beast, because they control a significant portion of the distribution chain, which I think is enticing to Texas, despite noise about a Longhorn sports network – seriously, that’s a LOT of capital and risk folks.

But I think it becomes problematic in that Texas represents more value (at least in terms of relative economies) than the next two largest Big 10 states combined. The Big 10, has arrived at their kumbaya revenue sharing arrangement at least partially through the lack of a dominant member. No school was bringing a market such that it could be on the look out for greener pastures and possibly be stronger away from the whole. Northwestern is the weak sister, but happens to be the closest to the largest population center and brings a lot of academic cred/money (so, nothing at all like Baylor). Would Texas want a higher distributive share of revenue generated on the Big 10 network? Would that be a deal breaker? I don’t know, but when the leg. gets involved…I think their minds horizons could easily be that narrow.

Texas and California may be closer to peers, and California is the only US region that dwarfs Texas in terms of economic output (about 150% of TX). In that respect, I think if Texas can convince California to eschew equal revenue sharing, the PAC 10 will have the best argument from a pure sports revenue standpoint. The only way this works though, is if the dollars are big enough for USC/UCLA/Cal to threaten to leave the conference or instill unequal sharing regardless of the admission of Texas, because if Texas plays the unequal revenue share card the unanimous vote requirement will kill the deal unless that’s the only alternative for the Non-Cali schools (and probably Stanford).

Does Texas need unequal revenue sharing? No, but my assumption is that the decision makers are too accustomed to having their backs scratched.

proud to swim home

by learned hand on May 10, 2010 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks Hopkins

There are obviously a multiplicity of angles for this whole situation.

Some key questions/observations:

-Several things are extremely likely to me: 1) the Pac-10 will expand and 2) the Big 10 will expand. I think both those points are pretty obvious, especially in light of the Big 10 season finishing so early and how irrelevant the conference is as the other leagues play championship games. The same is true to a lesser extent for the Pac 10.

-With that expected movement, the growing chasm between the haves and the have nots in college football will only increase, which makes the likelihood of several major superconferences emerging even more likely.

-If superconferences emerge that pay little attention to geographical boundaries, are they going to be football only? For football, it doesn’t matter that much, but when it comes to

-The major problem with greatly expanded conferences and/or superconferences is the loss of rivalry games every year. How much money does it take for teams to give up those grudge matches every season and what impact would that have on interest in the game? As mentioned above, it’s pretty much inconceivable that Texas would go anywhere with A&M, but what about the possibility of Texas and Oklahoma not playing in the same conference? Is that palatable at all?

-If the new superconferences are going to be football only, I personally favor a system as used in soccer, where the lowest teams are relegated to a lower level and the top teams participate in the playoff. Obviously, that raises all the problems of the entrenchment of interests and all the money involved in the bowl games and everything else associated with playoffs.

Back to more pressing concerns - could the Big 12 survive the loss of one or both of Colorado and Missouri? I see Nebraska as less likely to leave, so I won’t mention them in that group.

-Faced with losing one or both teams, would the Big 12 consider sharing revenue more equally? In my opinion, I don’t see that happening.

-I’m intrigued obviously by the potential of a Longhorn Sports Network, but what’s the deal with a potential Big 12 Network and why hasn’t it happened already? What’s going on there?

A lot to take in here and a lot to talk about this offseason. Looking forward to it.

by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on May 10, 2010 5:21 PM CDT reply actions  

Roflpotamus
from Osborne all the way down to t-shirt fans in Grand Island, is composed of a bunch of whining crybabies who resent Texas, who resent the academic standards we imposed on them, who resent having to fly all the way to frickin’ Dallas if there’s business at the conference HQ, and who resent all the times we’ve bested them on the football field, the one place on which NU felt confident they could best us when the Big XII was founded, and they would like nothing better than to suck their thumbs and move to another conference and get away from us

by Hobbes881 on May 10, 2010 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

NU fans

I’ve been hanging out at Frank the Tank’s blog a lot recently, talking realignment possibilities with other realignment-obsessed nerds. The participants in the comments section seem to draw a fair cross-section of posters from a number of schools. These posters include a fair number of NU fans, and I’ve been surprised to witness how much they really do seem to dislike/resent us, and the extent to which many of them can be quite whiny when expressing said dislike/resentment.

by Hopkins Horn on May 10, 2010 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's just Nebraska fans in general

Every year is “their year.” Every recruit is a potential Heisman winner. No idea that anyone else has is a good idea, until they adopt it later, then it’s pure gold.

We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats

by TB on May 11, 2010 7:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Huskers

I was pleasantly surprised at the cordial conversations we held with NU fans , here and elsewhere, leading up to the CCG. Then was equally surprised at their sudden resentment toward us following the game for everything from the drama of that game to rehashing the SWC breakup.

by Infield Elephant on May 11, 2010 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

They're in about the same position we were in with OU five years ago

Also similar to Arkansas feelings during the last days of the SWC in terms of dislike/resentment. I call it the ’can’t beat Texas and get no respect’ syndrome. We have derailed more than one season for NU (as we did UA) in recent years; they thought they finally had us last year just to see us slip away with an impossible win. For them it was the type of frustrating loss that could make anybody a little crazy.

That Texas win also REQUIRES an NU victory in Lincoln next year. If GG pulls the upset then all hell will break loose on the NU boards.

"You've got to think lucky. If you fall into a mudhole, check your back pocket - you might have caught a fish" -- Darrell Royal

by SpiritOfTheFedora on May 11, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

I’m going to enjoy Nebraska getting a Big 10 invite with a caveat for reduced revenue from the Big 10 network and the requirement they raise academic standards.

proud to swim home

by learned hand on May 10, 2010 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nebraska is a member of the AAU.

by dimecoverage on May 10, 2010 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know, but don't you think it would be delightfully ironic?

They’ve fretted the loss of partial qualifiers for over a decade now, I’d love the Big 10 to impose some completely arbitrary academic requirement on their acceptance.

proud to swim home

by learned hand on May 10, 2010 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cornhusker hater. :-)

by dimecoverage on May 10, 2010 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would just like to see the look on Tom Osborne’s face, when they tell him, “Sure, we’ll let you join. But Northwestern says your starting running back has to be a mathlete to get an equal revenue share, and we agree, because we can.”

proud to swim home

by learned hand on May 10, 2010 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nebraska would go into the Big Ten

right where I spent way too much time.

On scho-pro

by edsp on May 10, 2010 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Am I the Only One?

Why is it even a possibility that the Big XII gets broken up? I can see the Big XII wanting to get rid of some dead weight in Baylor and Iowa State and picking up a couple of other schools, but this doesn’t make sense to me. I understand other conferences wanting Texas or some of our schools but it seems to me, we have one of the best conferences in the game. Why mess with a good thing?

by cambyrd on May 10, 2010 7:39 PM CDT reply actions  

If you're just looking for quality sports the Big 12 is fine.

If you’re looking for filthy lucre, the Big 12 has unity than the League of Nations.

proud to swim home

by learned hand on May 10, 2010 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Revenue.

The Big 10 and SEC tv contracts are much more lucrative than anything the Big 12 has or probably will ever have. Our (Big 12) problem will be market share and network executives will always look at their bottom line. Beebe will do whatever he can to get the best deal for the conference, but the current ABC/ESPN contract runs until 2016. There’s no way out of that agreement now. Once the contract ends, he will have to find a network that can pony up big dollars. It is unlikely that ESPN would enter into another billion dollar deal with another conference.

Texas, OU and Nebraska get the most revenue from the current contract, which is less than any school in the Big 10 or the SEC.

Mississippi State makes more money from tv revenue than Texas. That is frightening.

by dimecoverage on May 10, 2010 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

2016

Is the magic number. My assumption that is if you’re Texas, you want to make your decision in 2015-16, and not before. Whether it’s LSN, another conference, or anything else — technology is a (grossly underdiscussed) factor in this — Texas doesn’t want to decide anything right now. I assume they’ll stand pat, so long as dominoes don’t start spewing every which way.

You ain't hurt...

by Peter Bean on May 10, 2010 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Anyone know what happened to the NBC/Comcast deal? That would have been a big possibility for the future contract.

by dimecoverage on May 10, 2010 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

What is the legalese of any school leaving the conference? Regrading the current contract, how does it work for individual schools? Are we stuck in the ABC/ESPN contract until 2016? Or was it entered into by the conference as a whole and as a member we reap the benefits?

by dimecoverage on May 10, 2010 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why is 2016 the magic number?

At first I thought you meant that waiting that long would give Texas enough time to tinker with a launched LSN, but rereading your post, I think you’re saying that Texas should wait six years on that as well.

I assume they’ll stand pat, so long as dominoes don’t start spewing every which way.

I think the only realistic hope of this happening is through the Pac 10 deciding that it only makes sense to expand to 12+ teams if Texas is one of those teams, and a deferral by Texas keeps the Pac 10 as it as and the Big XII at 10-12 teams after the Big 10 makes its inevitable move.

by Hopkins Horn on May 10, 2010 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Where is the urgency for Texas?

“We are the Joneses”, right?

Seriously, why would Texas want to move quickly here? This is a game of incomplete information, what we know is that Texas would be just fine staying where it is, an exceptional position of strength. Now, if dominoes start falling, Texas may be forced into a decision. Alternatively, if the next round of TV contract negotiations don’t go well, that’s it for the Big 12. It’s over. But I have to think Texas would like to use the time between now and then to explore all its options, and decide then. Right now… there’s too much we don’t know, and can’t know. If I’m Texas, I’m trying to preserve the Big 12 while I gather information and making a bunch of different plans, and then do what’s best in 2015-16.

You ain't hurt...

by Peter Bean on May 10, 2010 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think we're on the same basic page here

And that page is this: I think we agree that Texas would prefer, in a perfect world, for everything to remain as is, but that Texas might be forced into a move earlier than it would prefer if the dominoes start falling prematurely.

I sense we differ on our instincts as to how quickly those dominoes might start falling in a way that will force Texas to act. I think that they’ll start this summer or next, that they’ll probably start with the Big 10, and once they start falling, massive realignment is probably (though not certainly) inevitable, regardless of whether they all fall at once or whether they fall over a period of a few years.

And since I think it makes the most sense for Texas to wind up in the Big 10 when this is all said and done, it makes sense to me for Texas to start doing what it needs to do to get on that boat before it sails away this summer or next instead of having to settle for a consolation-prize conference when all the dust settles.

By contrast, though you don’t necessarily dislike the idea of being in the Big 10, it’s not what you see as being the preferred option for the school, and with that, Texas has more time to see if it can make a go of it in a refurbished Big XII or the Pac 10 or even independent.

Is that a fair assessment of our views? That the desired outcome from my perspective necessitates a greater sense of urgency today than the desired outcome from your perspective does?

by Hopkins Horn on May 10, 2010 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's basically right

I would just add that even if you think (right now) Texas should wind up in the Big 10, now is still not the time to do so, given the amount of information we don’t yet know. I think the most important position Texas should be holding right now is “Not now.” The situation can look so different in a few years that I really find the idea of making a decision based on what things look like today to be foolish, given that we have the luxury of not needing to make any such decision.

I suppose if you think the massive, dominoes-spewing-everywhere realignment is going to start happening any day now, then you could think Texas should make a decision now, but (1) that doesn’t seem likely in any case, and (2) Texas has some say about when the massive realignment begins, if it happens at all.

Texas should wait, gather information, and try to make a decision with the most amount of information about the future of the sport that it can. Television and advertising and online viewership and portable devices and other facets of technology, media, and business are changing rapidly. It would be preferable to make a decision further in the future, when we know more about how all that is going to affect the way people consume the product. That will matter to what’s best for Texas.

You ain't hurt...

by Peter Bean on May 11, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

I follow you, yet I don't follow you

I get completely your argument that what the playing field looks like today isn’t what the playing field will look like in five or six years. Technology evolves, and the means by which athletic events are distributed and monetized will look different in a few years. We don’t want to make a decision using today’s technology if it’s going to be gone tomorrow.

Yet isn’t it foreseeable that the same arguments could be made in 2016? And 2022? I can’t imagine that we’ll ever really reach a point at which the technological evolutions you refer to flat-line.

Or do you think that the next few years are the tipping point as far as collegiate athletics are concerned, and that which is evolving now and over the next few years will in fact become the working model for years, if not decades, to come?

(Hopefully this is coherent – typing on a mobile right now.)

by Hopkins Horn on May 11, 2010 1:44 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I would say

That it looks to me like we’re at a point in time where we’re going to find out a lot more in the next 3-5 years about how people consume media that it’s extremely valuable to wait and find that out. It’s only been in the last two years that it’s become viable to stream video online. Now, it’s increasingly commonplace, and I think we’re likely to find out a LOT of valuable information about streaming, online video that it’s worth waiting. I think that matters. To name one particularly crucial variable.

We’re also at a point where we don’t yet know what’s going to happen when the BCS contract expires in 2014. Will we go to a playoff? If so, that’s a variable that has a tremendous impact on how we should do this. It might be that under the new regime, Texas needs to be in one of the major mega-conferences. Alternatively, it’s entirely plausible that the new regime, combined with advances in media consumption, make a strong case that we do something more independent.

Does that follow?

You ain't hurt...

by Peter Bean on May 11, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Big X is going to do something

If for no other reason they need a conference championship game. Until they make their move, and we see how it plays out I agree our best bet is to look to strengthen the Big XII and stay the course.

If NU and Mizzou leave for the Big X, and CU leaves for the Pac 10, then I see us coming up with a whole new array of options/decisions.

I dislike the suggestions of playing teams like Colorado State, Utah, Boise, BYU-none of those intrigue me at all. I also don’t see any improvement with some of the theories throwing around old SWC teams like TCU/UH/SMU or Rice. We are always the Goliath and the interest is small there. What a mess. Texas and Notre Dame may become a new fun rivalry.

by Wrangler86 on May 11, 2010 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I still don't get how this idea is so entrenched:

If for no other reason they need a conference championship game.

Jim Delany is one of the most forward-thinking commissioners in all of sports, pro or college. If the Big Ten needed a championship game don’t you think they would have done so by now? Clearly the league had their eyes on other revenue-generating avenues (like a megalith network), so finances aren’t a concern. As for the competitive disadvantage of finishing so early, the Big Ten will be making Thanksgiving week a bye week starting next year in order to be playing games closer to bowl season.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on May 12, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was sharing a similar thought recently

Here. As I mention, I think Texas is well positioned in its current elite status, enough so that they have the privilege of waiting to see what happens. And yes, technology will no doubt play a big part in all of this, as will the amount of control the media will have on what decisions we would then need to make.

While I’m not an avid proponent of going independent, I see doing so working in our favor if the dominoes fall in the right way.

by Infield Elephant on May 11, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd prefer the Big 12 to be preserved as well

It’s just easier and makes sense geographically. Unfortunately, it seems those dominoes will start falling long before the current TV contract is up.

by TheElusiveShadow on May 11, 2010 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Geographical sense

is a factor that is underappreciated by some in these discussions. Probably more important to native Texans than other Longhorns.

Also overlooked is the possibility of a ‘TV alliance’ between the Big 12 and either the Pac10 or Big10 that does not require realignment.

"You've got to think lucky. If you fall into a mudhole, check your back pocket - you might have caught a fish" -- Darrell Royal

by SpiritOfTheFedora on May 11, 2010 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

True

Though as a native Texan and somewhat of a natural nomad over the last decade, I have a hard time gauging how important it is to everyone else.

Those things that are difficult to quantify are some of the most difficult to address in these discussions.

proud to swim home

by learned hand on May 11, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Geography

Hey Spirit, I am a native Texan, even if life’s circumstances have led me to spend a majority of my adult life outside the state.

I don’t think I’m discounting geography. I could propose some pretty interesting conferences if geography weren’t a factor at all. And geography is just one factor to balance, along with athletics, academics, long-term viability, what Joe Jamail wants, and so forth.

All things considered, would I prefer a geographically-concise conference which excelled academically and athletically? Yes. But if conference realignment evolves in such a way that Texas, more or less, has to choose between obtaining a safe harbor in the Big 10 or Pac 10 or honoring geography by remaining in a conference which will resemble a SWC II, I’ll take the former while recognizing that reasonable minds can differ on balancing these different factors.

by Hopkins Horn on May 12, 2010 9:57 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I'm not holding you to a journalist standard Hopkins:

but I can’t take this article seriously unless you are willing to site your source. Until then, this may as well be sports radio talk for all we know.

Offseason for sure.

Your tongue can't repel flavor of that magnitude!!

by UT2001 on May 10, 2010 8:05 PM CDT reply actions  

Huh?

1) Journalists cite anonymous sources all the time

2) I set him up with the source, so I can vouch for it.

I don’t understand the complaint at all.

You ain't hurt...

by Peter Bean on May 10, 2010 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

sorry. I'm trying to behave myself...for once

Your tongue can't repel flavor of that magnitude!!

by UT2001 on May 10, 2010 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Journalists vs. the Thayer Evans of the world

If a true “journalist” cites a an anonymous source, then people tend to believe it is credible. For instance, when GBR tells us some juicy bit of recruiting news-we tend to believe it because he values his credibility as a journalist and wouldn’t say he heard from a ‘reliable anonymous source’ if the source was really just 5th hand gossip.

On the otherhand, non journalist douchebags like Thayer Evans and the NYT will run stories knowing that the information is false because they don’t care about their reputation or credibility.

The value of the “anonymous source” is based on the credibility of the person revealing it.

A few months ago Georgetown Law Professor Peter Tague put the theory to work by telling his 1L class that he heard Chief Justice John Roberts was retiring for health reasons. http://abovethelaw.com/2010/03/everybody-learns-a-lesson-from-georgetown-professor-peter-tague/

by Wrangler86 on May 11, 2010 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

And yes I'm kidding.

Hopkins: While it is outside your proposed discussion can you link to our other conversation concerning this subject and give people anyone who may desire a background?

Your tongue can't repel flavor of that magnitude!!

by UT2001 on May 10, 2010 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Retracted!

(Sorry. Sarcasm meter: OFF)

You ain't hurt...

by Peter Bean on May 10, 2010 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can you remind me a bit more?

I’ve written about this enough that I forget where I said what from time to time. :)

by Hopkins Horn on May 10, 2010 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

rec'd because it needs to be

"I live in the tower with Coach Brown." -Bevo

by run Bevo run on May 11, 2010 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Whose ass am i educating?

I like to think I’m selective as to the asses I educate!

by Hopkins Horn on May 11, 2010 11:22 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Someone has to take one for the team

And, if you’re going to make this a series, it might be good to get the relevant factors we know for Texas decision makers in one place. There are a lot of folks out there who seem to think this is a far less complex issue than it really is.

proud to swim home

by learned hand on May 11, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

There are a lot of folks out there who seem to think this is a far less complex issue than it really is.

That’s a million dollar statement right there. This is extremely complex issue, with lots of moving parts and issues. You can’t get past one, with out bumping into another, yet so many think it’s just as simple as “X Team will go Here” and no more deep than that.

by Redhawk on May 11, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Which is why I was hoping someone could look through the posts and provide the background. Thanks.

I agree that the logical next step would be a series as this issue is too complex for one post.

Thanks.

Your tongue can't repel flavor of that magnitude!!

by UT2001 on May 11, 2010 4:22 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

And thus the theme for Volume 2 of the Realignment Chronicles has been decided

I’ll try and do a general summary of the issues related to realignment for the next post. Off the top of my head, I think I’ll break it down into three sections: (1) What We Know; (2) What We Can Reasonably Assume To Be True; and (3) What We Don’t Know.

Any suggestions/requests/tweaks to this, please let me know.

by Hopkins Horn on May 11, 2010 5:09 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

If you'd like any help with this, let me know

I’ve been collecting information that might be helpful for quite a while.

proud to swim home

by learned hand on May 11, 2010 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure!

If you want shoot me an email offline to “eyesoftexas [at] gmail”, please feel free to, and we can compare notes. I’ll be back at my home tomorrow night.

(As an aside, I’m traveling today [hooray for Jet Blue and their $9 fares to the Bay Area!] and had a chance to visit the Stanford campus for the first time, which has inspired me to look into a “Stanford: Why Do They Hate Us” volume of the Realignment Chronicles, which could be relevant given the Pac 10’s unaninimity requirement for expansion.)

by Hopkins Horn on May 11, 2010 5:43 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

That timing works well,

I’ll send you something tomorrow eve.

proud to swim home

by learned hand on May 11, 2010 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have a question for everyone screaming for equal revenue sharing

Do you even know what the gap is between the top and bottom team? What the average payout would have been?

The most recent published data has the gap between UT and Baylor at 3M. If the Big 12 went to equal revenue sharing Neb, OU, UT and A&M would all lose money. The top schools are all within 1.5M of each other. Mizzou and all the agony they claim over the revenue problem would add a whopping 200k more.

If the Big 12 equalized revenue Baylor would not even see a 4% increase in the operating budget. The whole tantrum about revenue sharing is just another one of those things that people refer to and have absolutely no knowledge about…

JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook

by laxtonto on May 10, 2010 8:51 PM CDT reply actions  

I think, to some extent, the revenue sharing argument stems from a fundamental reinforcement of relative position more than the actual dollar amount, though I suspect that if the revenue sharing disparity were highlighted by a larger annual payout there may be more merit to the claims.

A significant part of it is the overall disparity in athletic program profit margins (yeah, we’re talking “non profits” but businesses don’t stay in business if they lose money).

In 2008 Texas made 25 million in profits, Baylor claims they ran dead even (if they actually ran dead even, their accounting department is full of wizards), and Iowa State had $45,140 dollars in profits. Of course, OU also played it close to the vest with $82,843 on their athletic program after expenses.

I’m not sure what numbers you’re working with, but for much of the Big 12, a 5% increase in budget is the difference between being in the red and being in the black on an annual basis. As an athletic director, that’s the difference between worrying about your job and not worrying about your job.

proud to swim home

by learned hand on May 10, 2010 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Political Realities

I find it hard to take this as political reality when the myth of Ann Richards involved with Baylor being in the Big 12 is bulleted as a key takeaway.

That idea has been disputed over and over. I’d have less trouble believing Bullock responsible rather than Richards.

by TempestHorn on May 10, 2010 9:54 PM CDT reply actions  

That was my own rhetorical embellishment

I threw it in because “No David Sibley” on its own would have had too many people still scratching their heads. I know it is a myth, and my source specifically mentioned that as well. But even though the extent of her participation is, in fact a myth, as you point out, adding a “No Ann Richards” is effective shorthand to send out the message “Baylor doesn’t have the same political clout this time around.”

by Hopkins Horn on May 10, 2010 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

To elaborate . . .

. . . my source, speaking about disaffected alumni at one of the schools which was left out, said that these alumni “blamed Richards, but I don’t think she cared enough about football to involve herself.”

And I’ve discussed my belief that the involvement of Ann Richards is just an urban legend here and here.

by Hopkins Horn on May 10, 2010 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Texas should form it’s own network and go independent. If ND can do it than so can we.

Seriously though this whole subject makes my head hurt. Right when get we recruiting in a strangle hold for the next three years we have to deal with this nonsense.

You know what would solve ALL this? Take NCAA football, cuz that is what is really driving this, and mimic the NFL with two conferences, 8 divisions and a real playoff. Done.

by dukeoforange on May 10, 2010 11:06 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

I think that's where it's heading

the BCS contract expires after 2014. So for 2015 you can have a “playoff” set up. However, some of the power football schools don’t want to share with smaller schools that will never, ever be near a football championship like…say La. Tech, or Baylor.

One idea was from the SEC commissioner who said he could see a day when there would be 4 conferences with 16 teams each, and they would break away from the NCAA.

Really it’s still speculation, but if you are driving west on I-20 you got a good idea where you might end up at eventually.

by Redhawk on May 11, 2010 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Who would Texas play as an independent?

If the Big 10 (14)(16) has Nebraska playing OSU, Michigan, etc., I don’t see those marquee teams scheduling Texas in the non-con. SEC schools already run and hide in the non-con too. A&M and OU would probably keep it going. But could Texas find enough decent opponents to have a schedule strong enough for BCS consideration year in and year out?

by Adrian Mac on May 11, 2010 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

I could see your typical non-conf

Plus, some old rivalries.
Keep Oklahoma, A&M, Tech, Ok. Lite, Colorado/Nebraska
Add Arkansas, LSU, Ole/Southern Miss

"I live in the tower with Coach Brown." -Bevo

by run Bevo run on May 11, 2010 1:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think I agree with Mac's premise here

With how well Texas is performing on the field and in recruiting, I don’t know how many teams would want to risk playing such a tough non-conference game, unless the general trend towards not taking those risks somehow reverses in the new landscape of college football.

by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on May 11, 2010 4:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Plus...

…the logistics of scheduling those games year-in and year-out in October and November, when all other schools are knee-deep in conference play.

by Hopkins Horn on May 11, 2010 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's why it's a hypothetical

And we can suppose our day away.

"I live in the tower with Coach Brown." -Bevo

by run Bevo run on May 11, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

You better join a conference for your non-revenue sports...

…or good luck scheduling opponents for those teams. And is any conference going to take UT’s non-revenue sports without football? I doubt it.

We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats

by TB on May 11, 2010 7:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have always thought that the conferences allowing Notre Dame

Half in and Half out (other sports but not football) are partially to blame. They should stop that being used stuff and demand football too.

by Wrangler86 on May 11, 2010 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sounds great now

But if we ever fall from our lofty perch I’m sure particpation in a conference would be very beneficial.

Your tongue can't repel flavor of that magnitude!!

by UT2001 on May 11, 2010 4:26 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Kent Hance

Once again Kent Hance has proven that he is the political albatross around everybody’s neck. It is real apparent that he bought and paid for Rick Perry to be governor. Perry doesn’t have the walnuts to cut ties with this political vermin. His political career would go down the tubes.
It is up to the voters to remove Rick Perry from offfice in the upcoming election. Until the voters ‘man’ up and take a stand, we are just going to get more of the same shit. If you are a Republican, you need to stop electing this guy!!! plain and simple…
As far as Tech is concerned, Rick Perry appointed this horsefly as Chancellor. Perry takes no responsibility in what has transpired at Tech. Even with Tech’s accreditaiton on the line, Perry’s nose is either in the air or stuck up someboy’s ass!
If we keep doing what we are doing, we are going to keep getting what we are getting.

by teamleach2 on May 11, 2010 8:15 AM CDT reply actions  

Ignore the teamleachers

These people are paid hacks to go around and post on message boards etc to make Leach look like a saint and to discredit Tech and the Tech admin.

by RedRaiderNate on May 11, 2010 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

hance chance de-pants

it seems ironic to me that hance is in this mess over leach at just this moment. i’m talking pretty much through my hat, but i suspect that if things go badly for him in this leach thing, he could be pretty much penniless personally with most of what he’ll make the rest of his effective economic life going to the support of a non-somalian pirate.

i gotta figure that while this is a problem for him that he realizes any negative publicity for him is potentially bad news. this is not a good time to accrue more enemies. for that reason, this might be the best moment for many years for us to get shed of the plains pains.

by rumplestiltsglenn on May 11, 2010 11:43 AM CDT reply actions  

Best case for Ags is y'all to Pac 10

and A&M to the SEC. That is what every Aggie is hoping for. We still play the game on Thanksgiving.

by miketag on May 11, 2010 12:09 PM CDT reply actions  

heh, yeh

and numerous, humorless aggies openly moaning for the sec while very, very few longhorns see the sly sty conference as even a remote possibility for us speaks volumes of what wrong with a&m and what’s right with texas.

by rumplestiltsglenn on May 11, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

I still can't fathom how an institution as well-respected at Texas

gets certain people thinking SEC. I’ve stated a number of times over here that I believe Texas’ brightest future lies as an independent, but if they had to join another conference the Big Ten would be their most natural fit (certainly no worse than the Pac 10).

A&M, despite their very respectable research reputation, continues to display a mentality that would fit right in with the SEC. And I have to believe they would garner serious consideration; LSU and Arkansas would love an even stronger foothold in the Houston area while the Aggies continue to tread water.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on May 12, 2010 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yearning for Jackie Sherrell

Joining the SEC isn’t bringing him back to A&M

by Wrangler86 on May 11, 2010 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Sherrill is secretly waiting for Mack to retire

so he can become head coach here. Remember his contract at A&M had a provision for him being able to leave to coach at Texas. How in the world did we miss that opportunity?

"You've got to think lucky. If you fall into a mudhole, check your back pocket - you might have caught a fish" -- Darrell Royal

by SpiritOfTheFedora on May 11, 2010 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't know that

But, that was back in the day when you could really buy some talent. He was pretty dang good at it.

by Wrangler86 on May 11, 2010 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

This the best case for Tech too

If UT and A&M were to split up it would be good for Tech. We would probably follow Texas into the PAC-10 if that’s where they went. I’m not ashamed to admit that we would be riding UT’s coattails. If you saw a guy walking down the street with hundred dollar bills falling out of his pockets you’d follow him around for a while too.

by RedRaiderNate on May 11, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

You could try and follow...

…but I’d be willing to bet a considerable sum that the door would be shut in your face in all but the most radical realignment schemes imaginable.

by Hopkins Horn on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Spoken like a true Pirate

No, I would say “Hey Dude, your dropping c-notes.”

Thus, the diffrence between the worlds of Hance and Leach vs. the worlds of DeLoss Dodds and Mack Brown.

Seriously Tech fans, not sure what will happen to you. I’m actually more worried about the Tech/Aggie and Baylor folks in all this mess than Texas.

by Wrangler86 on May 11, 2010 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

There is very little doubt about that. Little brother tags along, no matter where we go.

by dimecoverage on May 11, 2010 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Little brother eh?

Lol! looks like its the question of survival and relevance for the big brother. You will be surprised how many conferences want A&M and we have the clout to pull Tech along with us wherever we go, if TU tries to pull the ‘big brother’ on us.

by YUMC on May 11, 2010 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

See this

Link

"I live in the tower with Coach Brown." -Bevo

by run Bevo run on May 12, 2010 4:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Revive the Southwest Conference!!!

Let the North go and just keep the Oklahoma schools, reunite with the SWC outcasts, and add some new blood. Try to get Arkansas back and maybe persuade LSU to join (I know its a long shot but it would be an easier conference than the SEC and they already recruit out of Texas anyways).

So you could have Texas, A&M, Tech, Baylor, OU, OSU, SMU, TCU, Houston, Rice, Arkansas, LSU, LA Tech, Tulane, Tulsa and UTEP. And if we can’t swing LSU then New Mexico and New Mexico St (instead of Tulane).

by TowerPower on May 11, 2010 2:43 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

+1

And why are we giving up on the big XII? Why can’t Big XII go on the attack mode and recruit 4 more good schools and renegotiate the contract? Big X will be a sinking ship without the texas schools, why help prop them up, when we can establish Big XII and position ourselves as a big 4 conference (the others big Big 10, Pac 10 and SEC). Oh and Mizzou can go to Big 10 or WAC if they wish

by YUMC on May 11, 2010 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pac 10 or SEC

The more I think of it the less I want to go Big 10. I do not want to give up softball and Baseball to go to Big 10. Yea academically we are closer to them, but we are also with Pac 10 too. Sports wise we are with Pac and SEC. Geographically we are with SEC.

There are a lot more sports then Football and Basketball, and PAC 10 has all of the ones we do. So why not start looking out there?

by Silentjay on May 11, 2010 4:37 PM CDT reply actions  

SEC is the best fit

Both UT and A&M and may be Tech if there is room should go to the SEC and form a big southern conference. Give the historic ties and common culture this is a more natural fit. I can see us playing Georgia or Florida for the Championship game and playing LSU, Arkie, A&M or UT for the division games than playing ASU, Arizona or Oregon State, that just sounds weird.

by YUMC on May 11, 2010 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Inside Texas Podcast has a good discussion

http://insidetexas.com/
SEC isn’t really a good fit because our academics are so much better. Other than loving football we have little else in common as a conference match.
The Big 10 is the best fit academically, but Pac 10 is still the more likely place for us.

Nebraska is going to be key. They hate being second fiddle to Texas and they are looking to get away from us. If the BIg X offers them and Mizzou, they will likely jump. Big X may be looking east instead.
Maybe the Pac 10 and Big XII will do a super merger.

by Wrangler86 on May 11, 2010 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don’t see how our academics are so much better. Georgia and Florida are ranked about where A&M and UT are. Vanderbilt is ranked much higher than our private institution Baylor. Auburn, Alabama and South Carolina are about where Neb, Mizz, and Iowa State are. Tenn and Kentucky have got to be better than OU and Colorado. Only Tech and OSU are probably ranked better than Ole Miss and Miss State.

by YUMC on May 12, 2010 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Georgia, Florida and (obviously) Vandy are excellent schools.

The rest of that conference is pretty atrocious. LSU, Arkansas, Miss State, Tennessee, USC, Kentucky and Ole Miss are all ranked well below the bulk of the Big XII save K-State, Tech and Baylor. Academics are in no way a priority for those institutions.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on May 12, 2010 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rec town

Well said TB.

You ain't hurt...

by Peter Bean on May 12, 2010 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Forgot to add Ok state to that list

You forgot to add ok state that list of non-stellar institutions and perhaps Missouri (102nd in the nation and that’s a smart school? seriously?). But I have to agree with TB and Peter Bean on this one.

by YUMC on May 13, 2010 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

An interesting thought

I think most aggies identify with the deep South more than Texas fans do. You’d have to drag me kicking and screaming into the SEC.

To your point above- Why are we giving up on the Big 12? I think the silent majority of Texas fans are not giving up on the Big 12, at least until a new TV contract is negotiated. And as much as I hate to admit it, we (maybe most of us) kind of like having you around to pick on. I think whatever happens we’ll remain in the same conference.

"You've got to think lucky. If you fall into a mudhole, check your back pocket - you might have caught a fish" -- Darrell Royal

by SpiritOfTheFedora on May 11, 2010 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

The podcast at Insidetexas.com sets it out pretty well

They feel the Big XII is doomed sooner or later. We have nobody to pull in to make it better. Whether it is BYU and Utah or former SWC teams they do nothing to increase marketing revenue. It is all about Television Sets.

Nebraska has hated Texas and the Big XII and would jump at the Big X. If they do I just don’t see the Big XII making it because nobody adds to it. The only conceivable way, which is a very interesting thought, is an alliance with the Pac 10. This is a very intersting thought because it allow Big XII and Pac 10 to share media markets.

It is all about numbers of viewers and television sets. Old SWC teams do nothing to add to the Big XII base, and the other lower tier available schools will only weaken the overall conference since none of them would replace the likes of Nebraska.

by Wrangler86 on May 11, 2010 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

I respectfully disagree with the podcasters

but you’re right, it’s about really two things- TV money and academics. We’ll get our TV money in 2016. An alliance with either the Big10 or Pac10 could address both TV sets and academics without everyone having to hit the panic button. You’re looking at something like 25% of national TV sets in either case.

If Nebraska wants to leave, fine. Same goes for Mizzou. But they aren’t holding me hostage with their whining.

"You've got to think lucky. If you fall into a mudhole, check your back pocket - you might have caught a fish" -- Darrell Royal

by SpiritOfTheFedora on May 11, 2010 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm with Fedora

If the Big 12 loses Nebraska, and Missouri, the TV sets are easy to replace with BYU and New Mexico. While not as sexy, it would keep the Big 12 pretty TV set (and thus revenue) neutral.

But that’s not the real question. The real question is staying revenue neutral enough? Can the Big 12 remain competitive with the SEC or Big10+ by staying revenue neutral? And that answer is no. The only way would be to have a TV alliance joint package with the Pac-10.

A TV alliance eliminates the need for the Pac-10 to expand, and would give TV’s from Texas Utah, Arizona, California, in one block.

That COULD be enough to get the Big12/Pac-10 to the SEC type money territory hopefully.

by Redhawk on May 11, 2010 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Texas/USC would be a huge draw

I’ll be interested to see the ratings for the Texas-UCLA game this fall. You could have something similar to the Hardwood Classics in basketball.

"You've got to think lucky. If you fall into a mudhole, check your back pocket - you might have caught a fish" -- Darrell Royal

by SpiritOfTheFedora on May 11, 2010 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

what about

a Kansas-Arizona Basketball match up
or a Texas vs Arizona St. Baseball series.
or OU vs Stanford in Women’s basketball

All would be great for the cable channel programing.

by Redhawk on May 11, 2010 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

A&M-Cal

A&M-Cal or A&M-Oregon will be another big sell out

by YUMC on May 12, 2010 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

I can just imagine the look on Aggie faces when a Cal Bear insults them

Aggie: “Git off R grazz”
Bear: “The quality of your graminoids is unworthy to co-habitat with the 26 bones in my foot structure.”
Aggie: “uncover!!!!”

"I live in the tower with Coach Brown." -Bevo

by run Bevo run on May 13, 2010 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

You are on a roll

You are on a roll so go on and I don’t mean to rain in on your parade but there are 28 bones when you include the sesamoid bones at the base of your big toe. That’s why TU shouldn’t have a rivalry with Cal, it will require the smarter school to compete with them

by YUMC on May 13, 2010 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

And think of a possible super conference champion

If the Pac 10 champ plays the Big XII champ—-like a playoff and HUGE revenue.

by Wrangler86 on May 11, 2010 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

The interest would be very large indeed. If the Big-XII does shrink to 10, I like the idea of the conference runner-ups (Big-XII & Pac-10) playing each other with the winner granted a BCS at-large bowl. Generates more excitement, and not only a race for the conference championship, but also a race for the #2 spot. This is also predicated on no conference championship games existing. Past match-ups would have been:

by chowder on May 12, 2010 5:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't see a move the SEC working out well for A&M

It’s already an underrated academic institution, and a move to the SEC will not help that.

Even if A&M were to succeed to the level of a yell leaders most twisted fantasy, could the athletic success and potential profile increase be worth the risk of becoming the athletic equivalent of South Carolina and a likely hit to its academic reputation?

proud to swim home

by learned hand on May 11, 2010 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Nebraska and Mizzou leave for Big X

I could see OU and their little bro OSU trying to go toward the SEC—but most people think the SEC would want to expand along the east coast to get more television market. OU and OSU just don’t add enough viewers.

Texas, A&M, Colorado, and maybe Kansas could move toward the Pac 10 somehow. But, Iowa State, Baylor, and Tech are the ones that are most in danger.

by Wrangler86 on May 11, 2010 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

KU won't go to Pac 10

I don’t see this deal working out geographically with KU. They will either go to an expanded ACC, Big 10 or even SEC but I doubt they would want to join the Pac 10 and besides they want to have significant clout and power concentration in whichever conference they join so I don’t think Pac 10 will be such an attractive proposition for KU. It will be more like Utah or Tech following us to the Pac 10.

by YUMC on May 12, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would bet there is a silent majority of aggies

who don’t want to join the SEC for that exact reason. Message boards aside.

"You've got to think lucky. If you fall into a mudhole, check your back pocket - you might have caught a fish" -- Darrell Royal

by SpiritOfTheFedora on May 11, 2010 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

poor aggy...
I can see us playing Georgia or Florida for the Championship game

I chuckled.

by vy til i die on May 11, 2010 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I assumed he got his bell rung at the Arkansas game

and just hadn’t recovered yet, but you are right. Poor aggies. Bless.

by Wrangler86 on May 11, 2010 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can hear the bevo bell ringing this season

With our new defense and a confident and experienced offense, there will be a lot of bells ringing in the Big XII this year and it won’t be ours! We will be back as a force in the Big XII yet again and make ourselves relevant just in time to be in the mix of the realignment debate.

by YUMC on May 11, 2010 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Best of luck

Nothing would make me happier than to see the Ags whip up on the Sooners or Raiders. Why don’t you ags pretend that OU and Tech are the Longhorns and you’d win. You always play us way above the way you play everyone else.

by Wrangler86 on May 11, 2010 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Recruiting

If I was a recruit I would be staying away from Tech, Baylor, OU, OSU. IF Nebraska and MIzzou leave, it will create a vacuum and only Texas and our little bro a&m will have the power to make a strong move.

Texas is fine no matter what and if NU and Mizzou leave it will give us freedom to make a major play toward the California viewing market.

OU and their little bro OSU offer very little in terms of media market to the SEC or Pac 10, so I’m not sure what will happen to them. Their academics will not be seen favorably in the Pac 10 either, so they are in a precarious position.

Baylor is probably in the worst position—-Conference USA? Tech-I am thinking maybe the MAC.

by Wrangler86 on May 11, 2010 8:44 PM CDT reply actions  

Disagree on the academic prowess of Pac 10

“Their academics will not be seen favorably in the Pac 10 either, so they are in a precarious position.”

I don’t come to the same conclusion as you do. I just checked the US news and ASU is tier 3 (like KSU, OSU and Tech) , Oregon State is tier 4 (worse than any team on the Big XII), and Washington State is a very low ranked tier 1 (kind of like Mizzou, Nebraska et al) and may be surpassed in rankings by UH or Tech when they get to tier one. So, I don’t really see how Pac 10 is an academic superior conference with the exception of the 3 California schools.

by YUMC on May 11, 2010 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

The four California schools and Washington are all top level universities.

And Arizona isn’t shabby.

Tech and UH may be able to catch the bottom end, but considering the legislatures current plans, they won’t achieve tier one status in the next several decades.

proud to swim home

by learned hand on May 11, 2010 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

So that will put us and UT in the top half of academically prominent schools assuming that we joined the Pac 10. No Arizona isn’t shabby either, you are right, I had forgotten about Washington. Though I am not sure if USC is ranked higher then A&M or UT

by YUMC on May 11, 2010 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

USC

is an excellent school. The Pac 10 is weird in that the top half is very good and the bottom is quite poor. There is quite a gulf in the middle, very much like the ACC. But much like the ACC, when you’ve got Stanford’s and Berkley’s at the top, it makes people forget about your Arizona State’s and Oregon State’s.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on May 12, 2010 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

OU’s appeal is big national following. (I know, I can’t understand it, either.) Nebraska has the same reputation. Their tv/market share is in the tank, but they draw viewers when they play in a national telecast.

by dimecoverage on May 11, 2010 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but dwindling like Notre Dame

Nebraska already has pretty much dwindled and OU is on a downward sprial (imo).

The real issue is media markets. OU has a huge local following because they have no pro football team (ever since the layoffs at Big Red Motors. But, I don’t think they have the national power of Texas/A&M for a Media Market revenue source.

by Wrangler86 on May 11, 2010 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Number of people in their respective states, no, but when they play on national tv, the ratings are very good. That is something networks look at. That is their appeal.

by dimecoverage on May 11, 2010 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not sure that Nebraska isn't waning, though.

What was the lowest rated national football telecast this last year?

According to the folks at Barking Carnival Nebraska-Colorado contest the day after Thanksgiving drew less than 2.4 million viewers. Some of the data points in that article might suggest that OU still maintains its national draw while NU may be dropping.

"You've got to think lucky. If you fall into a mudhole, check your back pocket - you might have caught a fish" -- Darrell Royal

by SpiritOfTheFedora on May 11, 2010 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Highest ratings for football games

I found some nielsen stats from a couple of years back and since that was a down year for A&M we weren’t in the picture but there were several big XII south schools (Sooners, Horns & Tech). Wish I could find a more recent data though. But I did not find any Nebraska, although it was their rebuilding year as well. And for all of the Big 10’s mythincal viewership power, there were only two schools (predictably Ohio State and Penn State and only one Pac 10 school-USC on that list).

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/media_entertainment/sports-wrap-ncaa-football-season-review-heisman-preview/

by YUMC on May 12, 2010 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

True, although the national punditry seems to hold the Cornhuskers in the highest regard as far as a network draw.

by dimecoverage on May 12, 2010 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

bad link

Hate that, so sorry, should be The folks at Barking Carnival

"You've got to think lucky. If you fall into a mudhole, check your back pocket - you might have caught a fish" -- Darrell Royal

by SpiritOfTheFedora on May 11, 2010 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ugliest man in Lubbock

"Josey drives to games??? I always assumed he rides in on his high horse" jam0152
"dirkatron has his own evaluation metric: rapes above replacement." AJM

by RangersSD on May 12, 2010 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Talks between Big XII and Pac 10 already are happening

http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/05/big-12-pac-10-officials-talking-possible.html

Allegedly the Big XII commissioner visited with the Pac 10 leaders during their conference in Phoenix last week. They have been discussing joint media deals for awhile. The sense is that they are leaning more towar an allicance for media/marketing rather than joining as a big conference.

by Wrangler86 on May 12, 2010 2:13 PM CDT reply actions  

It seems like there’s been a mutual staring across the classroom between the Pac-10 and the Big XII for several years now. Notice four primetime ABC games this season on consecutive weeks in September. And the annual hardwood series. If Mizzou and Nebraska bolt (as widely expected) I see the Texas and Oklahoma schools hitching their wagons and heading west and taking Colorado (who the Pac-10 has wanted for years) with them. Maybe the two Kansas schools, too. Call it the Pac-West conference.

by windycityhorn on May 13, 2010 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

If anyone needed any further proof that we're not SEC-bound . . .

. . . A&M’s most representative fan believes that we’re heading that way.

For those of you keeping score, if you had to bet your life’s savings on the proposition that Texas would be heading to the SEC, and you had both Kirk Bohls and beergut whispering “yes” in your ear . . . man, it would be so awfully tough to bet “no”!

by Hopkins Horn on May 13, 2010 5:25 PM CDT reply actions  

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