So why can't the Big 12 become a player?
by Robertpz on May 11, 2010 9:09 PM CDT
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Let's say Nebraska and Mizzou leave.
Big 12 North lines up nicely -
Colorado
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Big 12 South
Texas
Baylor
Texas Tech
Texas A&M
First of all, the Big 12 Championship has a nice look to it AND no more griping about whether OU or Texas are the best team coming out of the Big 12.
Next, we need is to find a couple of teams to plug into the South that might have some pop to them. We might have to look at one big school in terms of national competition and one school in terms of a media market. Or heck, we just add four schools and do a little bit of both.
Top Tier could be BYU, TCU or Utah
2nd Tier - New Mexico, Tulsa, Louisville, or Tulane - might not make sense, but from a media market perspective adding one of them might not be bad.
Realistically, Conference USA and the Mountain West would be prime pickin's if you could add the right ones. East/West or North/South, in the end, I know it is all about the TV dollars, but it seems like the Super Conferences are trollin' for additions with Mizzou and Rutgers. The Big 12 adding BYU, TCU, Louisville, and/or Memphis doesn't sound too bad in terms of the level of competition that we would lose with Mizzou and Nebraska leaving.
I know I am rambling a bit, but I am just a little stunned that Texas can't be the centerpiece vs. the trimmings. I know there are others on here that will have better insight than me, but I thought I would throw in my two cents.
Hook 'em!
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None of the other teams add any TV market share
Finding “a couple teams to plug in” is the understatement of this proposal. It just doesn’t work money wise for media revenue with any of the teams you suggest. TCU does zero to increase market for the Big XII or make up for the loss of NU or Mizzou. You are missing out on just how important the “other” teams are. We (Big XII) would become like the Big East or ACC, and we will be gone sooner or later. Texas will make a bigger move than helping along everyone else.
Wait a tick...
TCU, Louisville, Memphis, BYU, and Utah are solid programs. The Dallas market we own, but I also think the competitiveness of the Conference also adds to TV contract dollars. The Big 12 is all about Texas and Oklahoma in the South & Nebraska and insert random North college in terms of the National stage. The Big 12 has gotten a little repetitive in terms of who comes out of the conference. While I don’t think there is an automatic, other than Notre Dame, I don’t think there is a bonafide addition to any of these mega-conferences unless a Texas or Oklahoma bolts. But does the money balance out when you are Texas and you are no longer the automatic conference champ or runner-up going to a BCS game and you are sharing the leftover bowl money? Throw in a playoff system and this all makes sense. However, I think Texas loses if they jet to the Pac-10 or the SEC in terms of fighting for position.
"I've never gone into a game trying to win the Heisman Trophy; I go into a game trying to win." - Colt McCoy
Are you saying we should stack the deck?
TCU, Louisville, or Memphis are not really competition and they don’t add to the conference in terms of media market, academic collaberations, or other ventures. It just isn’t viable.
You seem to be suggesting that we should stay in a weak Big XII conference just so that we can dominate and get to the top bowls. It has not worked out well for BYU or Boise and we would be hated even more for the self-inflicted weak strength of schedule/conference.
Also, what kind of TV deal would we get when we, as a conference, would try to peddle games like TCU vs Memphis, or Iowa State and Utah, etc.?
Texas and OU are a great rivalry and top notch programs, but they cannot be the only two elite programs to carry an enitre conference—you are looking backwards instead of forward. The future is in bigger, larger and stronger conferences for media markets. (sorry aggies, raiders, jayhawks, buffs, etc. but it is true).
I think the Buffs are actually reasonably valuable
because of the Denver media market — that’s why it makes more sense for the Pac 10 to poach them rather than Boise State. While on this train of thought, I could also see Utah and/or BYU as possibilities because they could add SLC, which is at least better than some schools have to offer.
If Nebrask and Missouri leave, the bottom line is that the Big 12 is dead at that point and there is basically mass chaos because Texas would have to either add teams to the Big 12 to limp along for a couple of seasons until the TV deal is up and then try to bolt for another conference. Who knows then. If the Big 10 simply adds Notre Dame and, say, Pittsburgh, the Big 12 will soldier on for a while as teams plan their next moves.
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on May 12, 2010 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Absolutely agree about Colorado
CU is probably one of the four most valuable programs in the current Big 12, along with UT, atm, and OU.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on May 12, 2010 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Colorado is a sleeping giant
CU is the closest thing to UT the Big 12 North has. Their main disadvantage is being in a state with limited talent. Otherwise, their recruiting advantages line up with UT’s very well. Good academic school also well known as a great party school, great local culture, beautiful setting. I suppose being a relatively cold weather state is another disadvantage I hadn’t thought of.
If they would hire a coach with strong recruiting ties to Texas or California instead of a guy from freaking Idaho they’d jump back into national prominence very quickly.
CU has other issues
they are underfunded, and their facilities are way behind the rest of the Big 12. They don’t have any money to upgrade either.
Another issue is the culture, the local fan base really doesn’t care about college athletics. They look at the fans in Denver from areas like Texas and Oklahoma, and Nebraska with bewilderment, at our passion for college football. They really don’t get it. That lack of passion keeps CU from really doing anything about their situation.
And they have a crappy coach
I do agree that CU is a school we also can’t afford to lose if the Big XII is giong to stay relevant. That is why the Pac 10 is probably seriously considering poaching them. Colorado State as a replacement would merely show that the Big XII is one of the weaker conferences. We would have to align with Pac 10 somehow.
Fans of the Big XII need to hope that the Big X is looking east to expand. If they come after Nebraska and Mizzou it is the end of the Big XII.
Nebraska feels left out by your comment.
Watch you back or the Pelini Bros. will put a Cajun price on your head — five nutria pelts.
I think the market that comes with CU is significantly more valuable
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on May 12, 2010 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Hoops
Louisville and Memphis would certainly be an upgrade on Nebraska and Mizzou.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
yep
but they’ll need to get back to 12 teams, with new TV markets to make even that work.
1) BYU (SLC, international school, a poor man’s Notre Dame)
2) Utah (if the Pac-10 doesn’t take them)
3) New Mexico (good sized public U, growing metro area,growing state population, natural rival with Tech, has attention of the population)
4 tie) UNLV (over 30k enrollment, largest TV market not covered, terrible football program, questionable population interest)
4 Tie) Boise St (great football, but small school, small metro, 2ndary sports are thin, the only entertainment in ID)
6) Colorado St. (good size school, no real fan base)
TCU and/or Houston but only to fend off the SEC in the Texas markets, but really does the SEC really want TCU or Houston? They don’t add to the Big 12 TV at all.
In that order would be the schools that would add to the Big 12 in my opinion. But if UT or A&M leave the Big 12….you can start the dispersal draft.
Texas needs to stay in Texas
I think the Big 12 suffers from deficiencies in three areas:
1. Geography
2. Existing TV deals
3. Conference leadership
I agree that the Big XII needs to be pro-active...
rather than waiting to be picked apart. Replacing Baylor with TCU would be an up-grade, and then try to pry Arkansas and/or LSU away from the SEC.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
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