What is Texas A&M Thinking?
by 40AS on Jun 12, 2010 7:15 AM CDT
in Texas Longhorns Football
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PrintThere appears to be well more than enough smoke to believe that Texas A&M may seriously seek an invitation from the SEC (there's still no real proof at this point that the SEC is or is not looking at Texas A&M), thereby separating from Texas, OU, Tech and Okie State, as early as next week. This post is not meant as a flame, so if you want to treat it as such please go join one of the myriad of other realignment posts on the site right now. What we'd like to do is gather the community's thoughts on the psychological reasons for why Texas A&M's leadership would make such a choice (also read flamingmonkey's excellent fanpost here on the subject, which this post is not meant to usurp but apparently was written simultaneously, and brings up the additional excellent point that it can't just be "we'll recruit better").
The price of a defection is obvious: near total separation from the school through which much of Texas A&M's identity is defined. Don't dare try to refute it, just take a look at their fight song. Texas Fight mentions A&M once, the Aggie War Hymn is entirely about Texas. Sure, Texas and A&M could continue their nonconference rivalry on Thanksgiving, but at least in football it seems extremely unlikely for a couple of reasons. First and foremost there won't be time for Texas to play A&M. The new Pac-16 conference will almost certainly have nine conference games a year (seven in the division and two from the other division), leaving just three nonconference slots available. Would Texas risk playing just two nonconference warm up games and leave a third meaningless game just a week before the conference title game? It could be moved to September, but what luster will that have beyond say Texas-Arkansas these days? We think A&M to the SEC logistically kills Texas-Texas A&M.
Second, there is the cold shoulder likely to be extended by all four of the Big XII teams heading out west. The Aggies heading to the SEC is not going to generate any love between any of the schools. For over a century we've coexisted. They may be weird, we may be uppity and arrogant, but when the schools have needed one another they have come through. Without an athletics tie-in, we'll become two very different schools 90-minutes apart. Texas, Texas A&M and Tech stuck together from the SWC to the Big XII, and OU and Okie State were committed to staying together to whatever comes next. A&M defecting makes them more or less Arkansas.
A&M's decision-makers surely know the price of doing business with the SEC, and they appear willing to at least seriously consider paying that price. What we're struggling to figure out, and what may be impossible to know right now, is why they wouldn't want to go with Texas, OU, Okie State and Tech. To begin with, let's take out two reasons that we just aren't buying: academics and money. The Pac-10 may be slightly superior academically to the SEC but we'll concede that the difference isn't necessarily big enough to prevent a school such as Texas A&M from joining. And assuming the Pac-16 gets a television deal in 2012 relative to what the SEC and Big Ten have accomplished in recent years (and there's no reason to believe they won't), one must concede that the financial gains of going to the Pac-16 vice SEC are pretty negligible over the long term. Plus, it's not like Texas leading the country in athletics earnings is making poor financial decisions.
As far as we can determine, there seem to be three four rationales for why A&M is pursuing this option.
- They're uncomfortable with the Pac-10's more liberal culture and feel more comfortable in the deep south. This reason actually makes a lot of sense to us. The Big XII was full of schools that made A&M look and feel relatively normal. Can you imagine the culture shock Texas A&M may face during that first trip to Berkley to play Cal? These people have trouble dealing with Austin's hippie culture. Throw in the geographic issues involved and the comfort of southern living isn't such a bad choice.
- They like being courted. Go read Texags or any SEC message board with Aggies all over the place -- actually, just take our word for it. Their fans, at least those that own a computer, clearly want to go to the SEC. They're loving being the center of attention for the first time since...? It isn't hard to imagine that the A&M athletics leadership, having been in Texas' shadow for much of the last decade, is enjoying the limelight as well. These people haven't exactly led Aggies athletics to the promised land over the last few years and it's entirely logical to believe that simply getting attention from an elite conference is propelling them to seriously consider this option.
- They're tired of being associated with Texas. This one is kind of hard to understand considering how badly they want to beat Texas, but maybe they're tired of feeling like that. Of course the SEC is an incredibly difficult football conference, and leaving Texas to go to the SEC seems like going from the frying pan to the fire. To put it in perspective, Arkansas and Georgia went a combined 7-9 in the SEC last season, they were run-of-the-mill SEC teams. Texas A&M played both last year and lost by a combined 91-39. But perhaps they realize that the Pac-16 will be like the last ten years, with Texas winning a national title and going to three BCS games while A&M either stayed home or got embarrassed.
- They aren't thinking. We aren't saying this is true or that A&M's leadership are a bunch of morons, rather this psychological theory suggests A&M's leadership is not considering any of the consequences. Paraphrasing a quote from Woodward and Bernstein's All the President's Men, perhaps we shouldn't overestimate these guys' foresight because "these aren't smart men." They don't have a long term plan, they're just enthralled by the once-in-a-lifetime chance to get a brand new shiny toy. Certainly a plausible option, although difficult to imagine given how closely these discussion appear to have been coordinated amongst A&M, Texas, Tech, OU and Okie State.
In the end, we make the choices we make with no idea how they will turn out. A move to the SEC could be the best thing to ever happen to Texas A&M, or they could just be a Mississippi State redux (they've already got the uniforms down). The answer to why they're at least considering the move could be any or all of these points; it could be an incredible miscalculation or a great move. The amazing thing about the last two weeks is how historic the choices being made have been and how quickly they have been made. We'll know soon enough whether Texas A&M goes with the status quo or takes the leap.
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Initial question to consider . . .
. . . is whether those Aggies who prefer a move to the SEC would like Texas to join them or whether that they’d prefer to go their separate way. If the rumor mill is to be believed, it appears as though the Aggies have been trying to convince us to move with them…
They certainly may have initially considered Texas coming along
Yet they’re pursuing this despite Texas’ objection and clear plans to do the opposite, hence Texas coming along must not be a gamechanger and may actually be preferred. Judging by the reaction of their fans on message boards (“we won’t be pushed around by big brother anymore!”), it seems their fans feel much more brotherhood in Miss St than Texas right now, which is a real shame. Whether the SEC sees Texas not coming along as a gamechanger may be the real unanswerable question.
My opinion...
This is just a beauty pageant for aggy. They’ll enjoy the limelight for a week or so, going back and forth and back and forth about their decision. After they’ve soaked up enough A&M love – once they feel important again – they’ll be following us to the Pac-16. Book it.
Agreed, they just want to make it look like it was their idea.
I've been fuelin' my dreams eatin' greens and beans.
by 16thLonghorn on Jun 12, 2010 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I realize they are a bunch of myopic dumbasses, butt*
I think the Agroids have this one right. The Pac Whatever is a terrible option for them. Hell, I believe its a terrible option for us as well. I’d rather be sitting in a living room pitching the SEC than what is tantamount to the status quo w/o Nebraska. You can call it Pac Anything You Want, but it will be a FAR cry from the SEC or Big 10, and we will begin to suffer accordingly.
*pun intended
Your perception is ridiculous
last year not withstanding, the Pac-10 year in and year out has one of the best non-conference and bowl records of any team in the country. If you think you’re going to come in here and completely dominate everybody, we’ll revisit that notion after you take a trip or two to places like Eugene, Seattle, and Berkeley.
I know the perception out there, but it has a lot more to do with starting times and TV contracts than it does with the quality of football being played out here. If you think this conference is USC and a bunch of Iowa States, you’re sorely mistaken.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Jun 12, 2010 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Lighten Up Francis
You nailed it for me. Trips to Eugene, Seattle and Berkely. Two time zones away. No thanks. Nine p.m. kickoffs, no thanks. A scenario wherein we basically play the same Big 12 South schedule along with a trip to Arizona every year. Whoop-de-do. The Pac Whatever does not sell itself here in Texas as well as the SEC or Big 10 for the reasons you cite and more. In that respect, I think Aggy is spot-on right.
I disagree entirely
The SEC is absolutely the wrong place for UT.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Good riddance
I’d honestly rather see them join us in the Pac 10, but Texas A&M defines itself by its unique culture—A culture that fits in better with the SEC. If that means parting ways, then so be it.
They’ll miss us much more then we’ll miss them. They’d have to convert the “saw ’em off” routine to something else and come up with clever putdowns for their new bitter rivals.
They could call the University of Alabama “a.u.” and Auburn Univerity “u.a.” Those Alabama folk would be confused for eons.
Hook 'em
uh… most of Auburn’s recruits seem to say “I’m committing to the University of Auburn” already.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
See! It's already working!
Aggy putdowns = Crimson Tide kryponite.
Maybe A&M will do OK in the SEC after all!
Hook 'em
I read last night that the SEC has not shown interest in A&M individually
From Inside Texas (free article):
Our source also spoke to a high-ranking SEC official who reports that no invitation to join the SEC has been extended to Texas A&M and none is expected to be offered.
Our information indicates that any invitation to A&M was contingent upon either Texas or Oklahoma joining the league as well. But the Horns and the Sooners appear to both be onboard to allign with an expanded Pac-10.
So it would appear that A&M was/is trying to get us to go along because they know the deal is dead without us. Now that we’ve all but said we’re heading west, aggy probably has a time-sensitive invitation to join us. If they hold out for the SEC, they may end up with nothing.
It has been reported that the PAC-10 gave the Aggies 72 hours to make a decision, but who knows? There are so may articles out there and nothing is on the record.
by dimecoverage on Jun 12, 2010 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions
An Aggie's Opinion...
Typical Longhorn…say you are going to make 3 points and actually make 4. But nevertheless I would agree in part with most of them…
1. Cultural issue…absodamnlutely. Corps trips to LA and Berkley? Get real!
2. Like being courted…sure, the younger, not so good lucking sister always likes it when the boy next door calls and asks them out for a change.
3. Don’t like being associated with Texas…don’t agree with that one. But the movement to the PAC10 is one that favors Texas more than A&M
4. Ags aren’t thinking…No, actually we are. 5 years from now the PAC10 will be much like the Big12 is/was today where Texas and OU carry the conference. The West Coast teams are in a state of decline with the possible exception of Oregon. California is in BAD shape economically and this will carry over to their state universities. In the long-run, the SEC will offer much more balance and stability that will continue to keep it as the top conference in the nation for a long time to come.
Did you just call yourself the "younger, not so good looking sister?"
I’d have to agree with you.
Hook 'em
Actually...
they said they were the “younger, not so good lucking sister”…..hooked on phonics…..
Let's not fight in front of Aggy
I think we’re making the same point. A&M is the younger, not so good looking sister. To hear Aggy admit it is funny.
If I wasn’t clear, then I’ll blame it on the pollution here in Kabul. Maybe it’s rotting my brain.
Hook 'em
Actually the OLDER, not so good looking sister
As any ag will tell you TAMU is older than UT. So they are the OLDER one. And by the analogy seem to be less accomplished career-wise, and never married (or divorced long ago- 1939). I think that fits the definition of old maid. And any one will tell you the old maid is always flatterdd to be courted.
by Charlesslonestar on Jun 12, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Aggie Opinion II...
True…we are the ‘older’, not so good ‘looking’ one, but the point is still the same.
PAC 10 is a far better fit for t.u. because they will be able to own it in the same way they own the BigXII. In the end, the BigXII didn’t work out so great for A&M and back during the break-up of the SWC there was talk about t.u. going to the PAC 10 and A&M to the SEC…A&M learned their lesson.
True, the economies of LA, MS and AL are not that great but they are not a gazillion dollars in debt like the socialists in CA. Plus, college sports are the ONLY game in town in these states…they won’t let their programs slide…academics and other social issues be damned!
Finally, for everyone who thinks t.u. is going to blackball A&M, perhaps for a little, but keep in mind that MONEY makes everything better and the money, t.v. deals, sponsorships will continue to be there to keep this rivalry going. In FACT, I think more money will be there for A&M and t.u. with the SEC v PAC undertone (west coast v gulf coast, hicks v hippies, its all there).
This whole older school discussion is just childish.
Yes, the actual agricultural school existence, now A&M, is older, but the state’s intent was very clear. Wikipedia actually has a very good, concise history. Both schools are good, strong academic institutions that have a long and storied history.
This is not an intelligent line of discussion.
by dimecoverage on Jun 12, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
But the movement to the PAC10 is one that favors Texas more than A&M
But why? Seriously, could you elaborate? You seem quite level-headed, and we don’t get too many level-headed Aggies in these parts.
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 12, 2010 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions
I think Texas could recruit California much better than atm could, for one
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2010 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Great point about the economy
This is being overlooked by too many, but I don’t think it will be as significant as you suggest.
the man, the myth, the legend.
Californian economy
This point doesn’t really fly. Sure, California’s economy is in the tank, but I wouldn’t say that Louisiana, Mississippi and Arkansas’ economies are exactly humming along.
Especially with this gulf oil moratorium about to hit
California Golden Blogs! It`s dat Woo WHOOOOO!
by Maisbikkja on Jun 12, 2010 10:48 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Bringing economics into it?
California has some economic issues, but if we’re considering them, we also should talk about the deep south, which is far worse.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2010 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
When someone says something negative about the California economy and positive about the deep southern, I assume they haven’t done any research whatsoever.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Jun 12, 2010 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Texas U shitting their pants.....
TU is soo worried about recruiting against a Texas team IN the SEC. All those 5 star gems that Texas is getting now…will have to settle for the Pac16 rather than playing for an in state team in the BEST CONF IN AMERICA. The Ags know they have the Horns behind a rock and a hard-place…that’s why every article written by a horn is basically a crybaby peace.
by Christopher Cusumano on Jun 12, 2010 8:26 AM CDT reply actions
Peace to you too, brother
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
If A&M is hot to trot with the SEC, why haven't you pulled the trigger already?
Could it be because they don’t want you?
We are all ecstatic at the thought of you guys leaving.
I don’t know one Longhorn that would be sad if you guys went your own way. We’ve been forced to stick with the likes of you and Baylor by politicians (Thanks Ma Richards) for years and we are all sick of it. Good luck, you will need it in the SEC.
P.S. The saying is “between a rock and a hard-place”, "behind a rock and a hard-place means nothing.
Yeah, I'm sure Texas won't be able to sleep at night
5 star recruits could play for Texas and have a golden opportunity to play in conference championship games, BCS bowl games and possibly even a national championship game every single year or they could go to aTm and get their heads kicked in by virtually everyone in the SEC on a weekly basis. Big time bowl games or…possibly winning half of your games at best. Hmmm yeah Texas is screwed.
5 star recruits
From a Razorback fan we are hoping that Texas goes to the PAC whatever. The SEC and more specific Arkansas and LSU will mop up on recruits. The kids in Texas will not be excited about playing in the PAC. They will like the idea of playing in the SEC. This will become a huge advantage for Texas A&M should they decide on the SEC. The fan base will also be affected. Who in Texas will stay up late to watch an Oregon vs. Washington game, no one. But in the SEC we will watch the early game of Kentucky vs. South Carolina. Texas moving is an advantage for the SEC and A&M can see that.
by Benny Goodwin on Jun 12, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
We don't recruit kids who are concerned with our opponents
We recruit the kids that are so proud to put on the burnt orange, they would stand in front of a truck to protect Bevo.
"I live in the tower with Coach Brown." -Bevo
by run Bevo run on Jun 12, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Not even a big Texas fan and I like this.
" Answers --Become Resources."
Without Questions, There are limited Resources...
Then why are these players not already leaving for the SEC?
Because they want to play for Texas. Period.
I believe that aggie already recruits well.
They just don’t utilize it like others. And I for one, will stay up late watching my team in the PAC-16.
" Answers --Become Resources."
Without Questions, There are limited Resources...
I love mexed mitaphors
The Ags know they have the Horns behind a rock and a hard-place
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2010 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
"Between a rock and a hard place" is the expression
And I don’t think you guys capitalize “TU.” Just looking out for you, bro — I’d hate for you to get tagged for being a “two percenter.”
Hook 'em
Excellent analysis
There is a saying in psychology, “behavior is multi-determined,” and I think it is all of the above. Most of all, I think it is A&M does want to look or feel like it is just mindlessly tagging along after UT.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
Sure, Texas and A&M could continue their nonconference rivalry on Thanksgiving, but at least in football it seems extremely unlikely… Would Texas risk playing just two nonconference warm up games and leave a third meaningless game just a week before the conference title game?
Florida plays FSU, Georgia plays Georgia Tech, and South Carolina plays Clemson the week before the SEC Championship Game (and for that matter, the ACC schools play the SEC schools the week before the ACC Championship Game). If others do it, why can’t Texas?
Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog
8 vs. 9
I think we’re assuming that the logical way to set up the Pac-16 is with nine, not eight, conference games. If that’s the case, that leaves one less OOC game. If one of those OOC games is kicked to the end of the year, that means only two OOC games at the beginning of the year before conference play begins.
All those end-of-season rivalries you mention are for teams with eight-game conference schedules.
It’s not undoable — USC tends to play its home games in the ND series at the end of a season (although the addition of a CCG might complicate that) — but it does make it a bit harder to work out.
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 12, 2010 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Georgia, GT, South Carolina, and FSU regularly play BCS conference opponents in the non-conference besides their rivals. They still get by just fine with only two cupcakes.
Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog
If the will is there, it can happen. If it’s not, like Florida in relation to Miami, it won’t. UF made up the excuse that it has to have seven home games a year, and that means only one home-and-home series because of the neutral site game with Georgia. Meanwhile, Texas leads everyone in revenue despite finding the time to travel to places like Wyoming and UCF while having a neutral site game to boot.
If the will is there, Texas will find a reason to make it happen. If the will isn’t there, Texas will find a reason to make it not happen.
Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog
But given the second reason for not playing
Why would Texas want to put national aspirations in jeopardy to overcome the first?
by 40AS on Jun 12, 2010 9:13 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think that's the point.
Florida politics may play a part in preserving the UF-FSU game, but even if not, I think UF-FSU would continue because both schools value the tradition of the rivalry over whatever damage to national aspirations might result. If Texas has different values re tradition, that’s the way it will go.
Bingo
Florida politics are a very minor part of the rivalry. The schools simply value it highly and prefer to hold the game no matter what.
That contrasts with the Florida-Miami series, which was actually a lot longer than the Florida-FSU series when Florida decided to end it. It had gone past a fierce rivalry and ended up an unhealthy, all-out hatefest. UF planned on playing more teams nationally, which began with Oklahoma State and Syracuse, but that got put to an end after the SEC expanded and went from a seven game season to an eight game season.
Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog
But UF and FSU have never had to go through something like this, no?
They were never in the same conference, never had one team go one way and the other another, it has always been a rivalry of choice. Texas-A&M has never been a rivalry of choice, and given the difficulties of maintaining the rivalry, it seems unlikely to continue pending the defection.
The SEC tried extremely hard to get FSU in the fold back when it was looking at expansion in the late ‘80s, but FSU turned it down and went to the ACC. There were a lot of hard feelings generated from that, and it’s one of the prime reasons why Florida would be opposed to FSU joining the SEC now. They still play the game though.
Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog
Out of curiosity, Is FSU considered Florida’s most serious rival?
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Jun 12, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Depends on age
Those old enough to remember the ‘80s and prior consider Georgia the biggest rival. Those old enough for only the ’90s and on think it’s FSU.
Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog
here's a fix
if Texas and Texas A&M can’t decide to move to the same conference, eveyone left in the Big 12 should stay and find the best two programs to replace CU and NU.
Baylor’s plan to stay at 10 in nieve. The reason the Big 10 and Pac 10 are expanding is to get to atleast 12 and a championship game.
You stay at 10 no more championship game which brings in a lot of money and attention. The Pac 10 and Big 10 bot tired or being forgotten during championship week and having like 2+ weeks between their final games and BCS voting. The championship games influence the voting and the Pac and Big 10 has been suffering for it.
Best option for Texas, Texas A&M, Baylor and Tech is to replace CU and NU.
by Ryan2907 on Jun 12, 2010 8:42 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I know I'm a broken record...
find the best two programs to replace CU and NU
WHO?!?
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 12, 2010 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Nope
Conference realignment is largely about getting bigger TV audiences. Big 12 already has the DFW market locked up. Adding TCU won’t do any good.
What about Wyoming or Utah?
Even Arkansas may consider the Big XII North if they have the chance to dominate and play Texas every year in the Big XII Championship game. With Kansas and Misery on the Mountain West radar, all things are possible. Beebe and UT need to balance some of the revenue out to make it worthwhile. With the right leadership, the Big XII could turn this around and be a super-conference, too. (I know, lack of leadership in the Big XII offices is what started this mess to begin with…)
I think Utah and BYU would have been better candidates
But I don’t think it matters. I believe the team flight is going to happen.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Texas fans !!! Texas fans !!! to be the best u must beat the best im glad we mit wont b seing ur week sorry buts in the sec yall would not last here yall have a cakewalk schedule each and every year yall r pathetic really yall r horrible fans and arragant as sh i have no clue why yall think ur smthin this is pathetiic aggies should go sec well c u and the gay coast later gig gigg iggigigigigig em
Seriously....
WHAT? Can anyone translate????
OMG
I laughed so hard, thanks Hopkins Horn, you made my day, or should I say….
I laughid so hard, uh uh uh uh, danks Hopkins Horn, you made my day
That made that post even more classic,
Loved how it classified the text as redneck.
We're Texas...and you're NOT
I like Jive the best.
Texas fans ! Preach it loud, bruddah!! Right on! Texas fans ! Preach it loud, bruddah!! Right on! t’be da damn best u gots’ta whup’ de best im glad we mit wont b sein’ ur week so’ry buts in de sec yall would not last here yall gots some cakewalk schedule each and every year yall r alleyetic real yall r ho’rible fans and arragant as sh ah’ have no clue why yall dink ur smdin dis be padetiic aggies should go sec well c u and da damn gay coast lata’ gig gigg iggigigigigig em
Try the sweedish chef version of your post, too.
Texes funs !!! Texes funs !!! tu be-a zee best u moost beet zee best im gled ve-a meet vunt b seeeng ur veek surry boots in zee sec yell vuoold nut lest here-a yell hefe-a a cekooelk schedoole-a iech und ifery yeer yell r pezeeteec reelly yell r hurreeble-a funs und erregunt es sh i hefe-a nu clooe-a vhy yell theenk ur smtheen thees is pezeeteeic eggeees shuoold gu sec vell c u und zee gey cuest leter geeg geegg iggeegigigigig im
This kinda fits in with your storm trooper boot look, aggro.
I call it colloquial dialect.
Slang is for words…your comment is a whole passage. Aggie ephemera filtered through net speak, yet easily identifiable…who else would state defensive and passive aggressive comments like this.
The line:
Some linguists make a distinction between slangisms (slang words) and colloquialisms. According to Ghil’ad Zuckermann, “slang refers to informal (and often transient) lexical items used by a specific social group, for instance teenagers, soldiers, prisoners and thieves. Slang is not the same as colloquial (speech), which is informal, relaxed speech used on occasion by any speaker; this might include contractions such as ‘you’re,’ as well as colloquialisms. A colloquialism is a lexical item used in informal speech; whilst the broadest sense of the term ‘colloquialism’ might include slangism, its narrow sense does not. Slangisms are often used in colloquial speech but not all colloquialisms are slangisms. One method of distinguishing between a slangism and a colloquialism is to ask whether most native speakers know the word (and use it); if they do, it is a colloquialism. However, the problem is that this is not a discrete, quantized system but a continuum. Although the majority of slangisms are ephemeral and often supplanted by new ones, some gain non-slang colloquial status (e.g. English silly – cf. German selig ‘blessed’, Middle High German sælde ‘bliss, luck’ and Zelda, a Jewish female first name) and even formal status (e.g. English mob).”5
Of course, there was some truth:
i have no clue.
We do. hehheh
No, it's not
It’s a poor command of the English language.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe, but maybe not.
I’’m from the country and there are similar (in style) colloquial dialects dating back to the Great Depression. Part of the structure is poor command of the language from a grammatical point of view…but the language does directly convey the meaning the speakers intend. There’s even a contra influence that takes into account the lack of grammatical education. The connotative side of the language is expanded where the cultural meanings come through clearly.
The aggies, like the hippie subculture and many others, want their own means of expression, heavy on the connotative side, want to use it to express their feelings to others (note more feelings than rationality) and yet want to keep their language specific to themselves. Even down to their hand signs, the aggies have had their own internal community means of self expression.
I am not a linguist, just a writer, but I do find such things interesting and there is an in-depth history on each of these colloquial dialects. The aggies are very rich in this area. But they don’t seem to get it that we, too, have our own community dialect as well. And this blog is living proof we’re creating more all the time. The difference I see is that we seem to focus outward – and want to translate well – while the aggies are much more introspective.
I'm not a true linguist either
Although the army did tell me otherwise, using a misnomer for my job title. But anyway, I have studied linguistics quite a bit in the course of my language studies, including when I taught here. There’s a school of linguists who believe that there is no such thing as correct forms of language, and these people hold that any change that a person makes to the language by using it in a way that is inconsistent with what would be considered grammatically correct represents just another small step in the evolution of language. For example, when a moron says, “She don’t got no car. Where you at?” it would simply be evolution of the English language, not incorrect English.
Of course, I believe that’s complete hogwash.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2010 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Incorrect versus evolving English
These are not mutually exclusive concepts, of course. (I, for one, lament the loss of “ain’t” as an acceptable contraction for “am not”.) I cry a little on the inside from time to time over the disappearing use of “whom” and distinction between “less” and “fewer”. But sh*t happens.
I can see that.
I run a history museum, do oral histories with older people…tracing their language and meaning is a part of translating this story.
I don’t mean to imply that such colloquialisms make the language evolve, but it does make it more colorful. Finding out exactly what people mean when they really don’t have the expressive means to relate precisely is like solving a mystery. I like the mystery as much as the language.
A good analogy is saturation bombing as contrasted to precision munitions. Precision is valued here, but accurately translating feelings has many means (including poetry, blues music and non-verbal expressions for the ineffable).
You can just full of it – as I often am – with any means of expression.
One more perspective
My doctorate is in Communications with an emphasis in social linguistics, so I feel obliged to toss this in. What many people miss is that nonstandard dialects are just as grammatically consistent as standard English. It’s just that the rules are different. And what I find interesting (this was my dissertation) is that people who believe that a nonstandard dialect is ungrammatical and “erroneous” have more difficulty comprehending it than others.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
You guys are akin to Language Astro Physicists.
But further to Hopkins Horn Dialectizer link, here’s your post in Redneck. No offense, but where I come from they call this a “real hoot”.
Mah docko’ate is in Communicashuns wif an emphasis in social lin’uistics, so ah feel obliged t’tost this hyar in, as enny fool kin plainly see. Whut in tarnation menny varmints miss is thet nonstan’ard dialecks is jest as grammatically cornsissent as stan’ard English. It’s jest thet th’ rules is diffrunt. An’ whut ah find interestin’ (this was mah dissertashun) is thet varmints who believe thet a nonstan’ard dialeck is ungrammatical an’ "erroneous" haf mo’e difficulty comprehendin’ it than others.
“I don’t care who you are, that there is funny.” - Larry the Cable Guy -
That's good to know, doc.
I’m going to find something for you…may take a few days but it is from a series of books written by a guy who grew up here in Burnet County in the 30s. He wrote 17 books altogether, all in country dialect from the time. He wound up in Idaho and I doubt if he’s still alive.
What was so interesting was that I could read the books aloud with natural ease. Half of my family came from Briggs, primarily farmers there from the 1880s until the mid-30s bust. This was their everyday language carried a sensibility of the Depression Era as well as the cultural place and a part of me is fluent in it. One uncle married a woman from the hills of Arkansas and she introduced certain inflections and phrasing that affected (really, infected) a lot of the family. The book made me more aware of the speech characteristics of my family and people in this local culture specifically. I listen for those sounds and phrasings now, both from myself and from others.
It easy to see that there is internal consistency even though it may jar the ear a bit.
Glad this came up.
Looks like a monkey CAN operate a computer
Just not very well.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2010 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Exhibit A above
Should settle any discrepancies regarding the viability of the SEC from an academic standpoint.
by HornFan55 on Jun 12, 2010 1:17 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Sure, that works.
We’re all the same, of course. Over here in Georgia, they never bothered to teach us such clever extrapolation and generalization techniques. Well done.
On a somewhat serious note
UT and Georgia are probably the most culturally similar institutions across the SEC. After two years with A&M, I suspect you’ll be saying much the same things, just swapping “Texas” with SEC.
I won’t hold it against you.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Jun 12, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Appreciate that.
I think an Austin-Athens exchange would be enjoyable for all. And maybe on the way into a different time zone y’all could change your watches from 10 to 9. Which is to say, inter alia, it’s been too long, and a home-and-home would be nice some day.
Wow
and idiot the reason they haven’t pulled the trigger is THEY’RE waying THEIR options the longer the aggies wait the more likely THEY’RE heading to the sec
Dude you used the wrong word every time, I’m beginning to see why we don’t want to be in the SEC.
i hate to turn the grammer police finger back at you...
but your point would mean more if your used weighing instead of waying :)
by LadyLonghorn on Jun 12, 2010 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
This is your last comment on the subject, or you'll be banned
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 12, 2010 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions
(FYI, there were several other comments above this one, and one which followed despite the warning.)
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 12, 2010 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions
You’re justified in this one.
The ban hammer should be rare and vetting, but absolute.
California Golden Blogs! It`s dat Woo WHOOOOO!
by Maisbikkja on Jun 12, 2010 11:01 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
It's the first time I've called for it
You should have seen some of the 12 which were deleted!
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 12, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
No kidding
I wish such loons didn’t claim the SEC as their favorite conference, but everyone’s got those kinds of folks, I’m afraid.
Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog
How's that echo chamber working for you?
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Fact is stranger than fiction
Of all the scenarios I have read about the last month the Ags going to a different conference than the Horns was the one which I gave the least probability. Either this will be the Ags finest hour or worst. Either it will have them looking like a wise sage or a rebellious teen.
While I grew up as a Horn fan, I attended a small liberal arts college in VA. So I do not have as perhaps as biased a view toward one school or another although UT is clearly my school of choice.
I agree that the SEC for me is a more comfortable fit. I simply do not like much about the left coast. I have always regarded myself as a Southerner and will most likely feel out of place when the Horns play in Cali.
The interesting thing is that if the original deal plays itself out, UT and A&M probably will play only two games a year against a West Div team and one will be at home. So one game in the Pac time zone against a truly left coast team is really not that big a deal. Essentially we would have had the southern div of the Big 12 plus the Arizona schools and Colo. That is not too tough to stomache.
However when was the last time any of you ever watched a Pac-10 game that did not have USC in it (unless you had money on the game or it was against one of your local favorites?)
What this process has taught me is that the academics part of the equation is more important than I ever realized.
Also when I have listened to the national talk sports programs I have been amazed at the pigheadedness of the SEC callers. They really do think that football starts and stops at the SEC borders. I had regarded the SEC as a cousin to the Big 12 and Texas but called UT a coward for losing the BCS game to Alabama when a 18 year old boy (who is still 18 by the way) had the Horns in the game into the 4th quarter is as idiotic a take as i have heard in a long time.
In fact I have heard many call UT a coward for not considering the SEC. The last time I heard a UT fan call a school a coward was when PennSt was invited to the Cotton Bowl to play UT after the ’69 season and Joe declined. While I like A&M the talk that I heard coming from the SEC callers was much more Aggish. Perhaps it would be a good fit for them after all.
I am not saying UT is not at times arrogant becuase it and its fans often are. What i am saying is that I am ashamed at how my fellow southerners exhibit such a myopic provinciality.
Fact is truly stranger than fiction.
Great post
And, I’ll ask, given the direction A&Ms leadership has taken
them over the last decade, does anybody believe they are capable of having a “finest hour”?
by 40AS on Jun 12, 2010 9:17 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Good points, perhaps
But I would caution anyone that judging a conference’s fans by call-in shows (and internet message boards) might not be the most accurate method. Come to Athens (for example) and meet us in person. I’ll buy you a drink. And I think it’s not a stretch to say you’ll feel a bit more at home in Athens than you will in Pullman or LA.
Deal
And I don’t think there’s a single Longhorn who wouldn’t rather take a road trip to Athens than Pullman
between the hedges and the grove; the largest outdoor cocktail party and the Tenn navy are all very cool
give me the invite and i will bring the bourbon…i may even introduce you to real bar-b-que instead of that pulled prok mess…by the way, there are a lot of Texas kids whose parents went to UT who now go to Ole Miss, UGA and LSU, etc. because of the 10% rule in Texas and they have a great time..the lack of these kids at Ut has changed Ut and some may say not for the better…
i feel a great affininty to the SEC…but the more i think about it, the more i am not sure that now it would be a good fit with the SEC..i am not sure why at this time…i just do not see it…maybe at any time up until 10 years ago…but UT appears to me to really want to be a University of Mich…it was not and still is not (but it is much closer) and it is a lot closer than any other school in the Big 12 or in the SEC (other than perhaps Vandy)
Barbecue and learnin'
I’m not a fan of pulled pork, actually. But it must be pork — chopped, preferably, and with just a touch of a hot mustard-based sauce.
I don’t think Texas is “a lot” closer than any other school in the SEC. Vandy certainly exceeds Texas by far in prestige, but as a small, private school it’s a different animal. Texas and UF are about on par. UF goes through more research dollars and has more competitive undergrad admissions than Texas. UGA doesn’t spend as much as Texas on research (no medical school, no engineering), but is about even with undergrad admissions selectivity (UGA’s student population is much smaller plus we get a higher percentage of the brighter out-of-state kids and no 10% rule, so the incoming students’ numbers are a bit better than at Texas).
All major state schools want to be Michigan. And I can certainly appreciate a university’s aspiring to be a peer with some of the Pac 10 schools. But if the rumors of who’s going hold true, the brand’s getting diluted quite a bit. The Pac 10 is adding a lot more schools to the lower end of the academic spectrum. Texas, which by itself would be near the middle of the pack in the current Pac 10, is clearly the best academic institution among the additions. The Pac 16’s reputation is about to look more like the SEC’s and a whole lot less like the Big 10’s. It’s very clear the Pac 10 isn’t trying to enhance its academic reputation. It just wants the televisions.
That doesn’t mean it’s not a good move for Texas. But the conference Texas will have joined won’t be nearly as academically prestigious as it was before, and Texas’s supposed 8-school division won’t be as academically prestigious as the SEC. That’s kind of funny.
The SEC West ain't exactly the center of the academic universe either
Of the public schools I think we can agree that Florida, UGA and Texas are roughly equivalent. Different metrics will put different schools ahead.
Agree 100%
And there’s no reasonable argument that those three schools are distinctly ahead of every other school (save Vandy) in the SEC, the Big XII, or the anticipated Pac 16 East. Again, I don’t presume to know what’s best for Texas. It’s just that the academic argument for/against any particular conference isn’t nearly so obvious as a lot of people seem to pretend.
Agreed completely
Although I do believe the research dollars are much greater in the Pac-16 than the SEC for Texas.
That may be true
And it would be a great reason to go. I can find individual university research expenditures, of course. I have no idea how conference affiliation (other than the Big 10) will affect the academic dollars, though. I find it interesting that, on the one hand, there are lots of Texas fans talking about how they’ll have to make trips to the coast only once in a while, but on the other, those occasional interactions are the ones you want most from the academic perspective. As it’s expected to turn out, the conference colleagues with whom you’ll spend the most meaningful time will be the ones you’re already well ahead of academically. Of course, that may not matter, and the presidents hanging out at conference-wide events and forging even more formal academic alliances (plans for which may be part of the ongoing negotiations) could have a significant impact. The end result may be a big boost for the likes of Oklahoma State and Texas Tech.
And I meant to correct something in my earlier post. I don’t agree UT and UGA are roughly equivalent. Closer than a lot of people think, maybe, but by almost every measure, Texas is the better school.
Err...I think Stanford and Cal are pretty clearly ahead of ANY SEC or Big 12 team
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 13, 2010 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course they are.
I was under the impression that Stanford and Cal would not be in “the anticipated Pac 16 East”, which is what I was referring to when I wrote “the anticipated Pac 16 East.”
Ah. Yes, well, carry on then.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 14, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Politics aside, one of these days we all need to discuss why so many on this board dislike the "left coast"
We’re talking about a weekend road trip. You don’t have to start wearing Ed Hardy shirts , smoking pot or saying how “hella” great the weather is. I’m a UT alum living in San Francisco, so take this with a grain of salt; I think most people would love visiting the Bay Area, Portland and LA if they had an open mind. They are some of the best places in the country.
the man, the myth, the legend.
Identity politics
People define themselves by what they are not. You get this in mainstream politics all the time.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
And ill give u that Bama did not show up but if theyd of played half the game that they are cappable theyd of blown em out the stadium but the past 4 years whose won the nat champ let me ask u that 1
Don't say anything.
I’m sure he will tell us who and it will be hillarious….just be quiet and listen.
It's really pretty simple
This is the best article I’ve read from the Texas perspective. I think this pretty simple. I am 50 years old and was born in Bryan when my Father was getting his Masters at A&M. I come from an Aggie family and am a proud member of the class of ‘80. For me, after 50 years, Texas is like that relative or sibling you have that no mater what you do they think have a better story, they think they have done more, know more, etc. Add to that they think your dumb, tell jokes about you, think you’re weird, etc. An air of never ending superiority combined with constant abuse and the psychology is pretty simple. Even this article which was well done has that “those with computers” line…because at your core you just can’t help yourselves.
As an Aggie…I’m tired of it. If you’re (the longhorn nation) “kidding” the joke is very old…if you’re not then I think the best thing for my school which facts show today is more or less your equal both athletically and academically is to move on and make you less relevant in our lives.
It’s all about respect…pretty simple really. I have great respect for the University of Texas but I’ll never understand why the school that tells me it has everything isn’t a little nicer about it. Why so angry at a group you view as inferior? You have everything but somewhere in YOUR psychology it’s not enough. When you come across a bully you can try to explain your side…but eventually you have to punch em in the nose. We’ve tried explaining…working to be treated more respectfully. It isn’t going to happen. Time for the punch which for us…is going to the best football conference there is, with or without you.
So that’s what I think we’re thinking but there’s also the aspect that Texas schools playing in something called the PACIFIC is pretty stupid. I can’t believe Texas fans are very excited about that. As an exercise…write down your schedule as an SEC member or a PAC 15 member…see which one is more exciting…and can we please leave academic considerations out of this.
Thanks for your article which was well written and brings up good questions and points.
Thanks for your perspective . . .
. . . but I’m beginning to sense that this might be the whole sum of why A&M might be doing this:
can we please leave academic considerations out of this
Texas won’t.
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 12, 2010 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I see what you’re saying. I think schools are responsible for their own academics. I don’t agree that playing sports has much to with a schools academic standing…or we’d all be clamoring to get in the Ivy League :) My point wasn’t that academics isn’t important to our schools just that I view it as not relevant when we’re really talking about money.
Don't forget that academics is also part of recruiting.
Even when Texas joined the Big 12, we would not drop our recruiting standards and everyone in the conference had to have those same recruiting standards.
"Football's so important in Texas. On the West Coast, it's a social. On the East Coast, it's a culture. Here, it's a religion."
-- Major Applewhite
Which is a contributing reason to why NU is gone.
We – not just us, but the whole conference voted – killed NU’s walk-on system for partial qualifiers. No really that important, but it was to them…still is a burr under their saddle. The irony is that NU’s immersion in higher standards allows their move into the Big 10…as well as Texas’ move to the Pac 10 (as well as the higher standards of associated schools in the B12).
Academics do play a central role in this drama…it’s not just football. But we can also note that the rate of football innovation has raised the bar for smarter, less mistake-prone players. NFL-like sophisticated response defenses and multi-phase offenses require much more study and teaching and a longer curve before a player on the field can hit the intuitive peak where they are totally reactive to all situations without thinking.
In my opinion, the Pac 10 and the Big 12 shared this drive to innovate on the field in a manner that is the current edge in college football. I see the Big 10 behind the curve while the SEC is working to catch up to Urban Meyer. These relationships do change over time, but to me one of the hallmarks of the Pac 10 has been their adherence to innovation. How well you can implement such strategies really depends on the depth of your athletes and that affects your overall success. With athletes like SC it was a winning combo…and they were really naive and stupid to screw it up.
This isn't entirely true
we would not drop our recruiting standards
IIRC, the SWC didn’t allow partial qualifiers at all, while the Big 8 allowed unlimited partial qualifiers. Allowing a partial qualifier to be admitted at all, which texas did vote for, was a ‘lowering of their recruiting standards’.
Academics can get strengthened...
When A&M hired Jackie Sherrill back in early 80s, our faculty screamed to the hilt about him making a pile of money. Then, when he led our programs to greater heights, that same faculty siad, "Ya know, we hated him coming and making all that money, but now that the school is getting more attention because of football, we’re getting a lot more attention and reaserch money. It did have a positive effect on us then.
Thanks for joining BON
It really is nice to read well articulated points from the Aggie point of view.
AggieTom80 is dead on!
Listen up teasips! You might just learn something.
The article above makes good points, but still carries that same old tired condescension.
As an Aggie who has come from a family of Ags, I have truly been torn as to which way to move. The Pac-10 is interesting, and could possibly foster some interesting academic and research alliances in the future as the new conference relationships mature, but it’s still the left coast. You guys have a lot more in common than we do.
I guess the most amazing thing to me has been the incredible volume of blowing coming from Austin. In fact, after reading and hearing it 24/7 for the last week, I’m now believing that you guys need us close by to help assuage your deeply embedded insecurity. You may even be abit nervous what might happen to you in five years. It may be the ok looking younger sister blossoms while the older debutante turns hard and ugly.
I know we have a bunch of odd fellows pulling at our leadership reigns right now, and unfortunately, many don’t have roots in Aggieland, understand our traditions, or know what has made us uniquely strong throught the years. Just as I believe that t.u. is uniquely strong but very different from A&M- that’s what has made our rivalry great, and when the chips are down, could make us a strong partnership for the long term.
I’m just not convinced that the Pac-10 is that answer for us…
Thanks for your thoughtful article…
Thanks, 84Ag
I guess the most important question I can think of for you Ags right now is, if you move to the SEC, do you change your fight song?
No, we're still good...
Our War Hymn still works- “Goodbye to Texas University, so long to the orange and the white…”
Sad, but true…
Its a good question...
I rewrote the lyrics for Arkansas just in case….they were funny. Not nice but funny.
Hey AggieTom80...
I hear you. rewrite it, but I’d much rather target LSU than Arkansas.
On another note in all of this, I’ve been wondering for a couple of months about the connection between our AD Byrne and his son who is the AD at Arizona. I didn’t know if that would be a pull toward the Pac-10 or not. It still doesn’t feel right.
Thanks, and Gig’em brother!
Man...
if you think we’re condescending now, wait until your misguidedness leads you to the SEC, more or less providing the conclusive evidence that our suppositions about A&M have merit beyond the occasional derogatory remark or Aggie joke, because if your stubbornness, narrow-mindedness, and insecurity cause this thing actually to happen, your institution really will represent complete mediocrity of thought.
A move to the PAC-16 would be good for you culturally (perhaps it will advance you beyond the 1950’s, finally) as well as academically, so your children might actually learn something when you force them to enroll there.
by BrooklynHorn on Jun 12, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks brooklyn..
My theory concerning teasip insecurity gets stronger with every post…
Are we arrogant or insecure? This is getting confusing.
"I live in the tower with Coach Brown." -Bevo
by run Bevo run on Jun 12, 2010 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
No problem...
As your analyst, I can tell you you’re both…
I don’t think you understand how this works.
"I live in the tower with Coach Brown." -Bevo
by run Bevo run on Jun 12, 2010 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm getting that impression.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Jun 12, 2010 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Another Aggie explanation
What would the benefit of the east division of the Pac16 be for A&M? The division is set up for Texas or Oklahoma to dominate, then play a west division relative lightweight for the conference championship and a BCS bid. Works great for TX/OK. Even works for Tech and Ok State, more money for each, and no real alternatives. But A&M? If A&M stays with the group, they will remain a midpack team, with little prospect of improvement. Nothing to make them unique in recruiting. No pull (vs Texas/OK) with regard to TV time slots, so no special exposure even with a PAC16 network. TV times guaranteed to be disadvantageous relative to the east coast media, which has been a chronic problem with Pac10 teams anyway. Texas may have the pull to overcome that, A&M won’t. Then you have the utter disregard and contempt that the west coast teams will have toward a conservative southern school like A&M. That contempt is blatant on this website from the Texas contingent. Why would A&M chose that?
The SEC will at least have like minded conservative southerners with most of the schools. TV times will at least favor east coast media exposure. Travel for student athletes, their parents, and fans will be dramatically reduced vs Pac16 teams. This will be especially critical in non revenue sports. The money will likely be similar in the SEC. The Pac 16 money will no doubt favor Texas (vs other conference schools), as it does in the Big12. The SEC is not likely to tolerate a set up like that. Obviously, the SEC will be able to renegotiate their TV contract with the expanded conference, making sure money for new teams does not reduce revenue for existing teams, or there is no motivation to expand the SEC. Yes, A&M will be a midpack team in the SEC, just like in the Big12 or Pac16. But the prospects for competitive years will be more frequent. Stiffer SEC competition will make for better play. Recruiting will be enhanced by being different from the Pac16. Some parents won’t want their kids traveling so far as will be required in the Pac16. Some won’t want left coast disrespect for their kids when the alternative is southern hospitality. Some parents won’t care or will prefer the Pac16 attitudes and those kids will go to Texas. But the SEC will be a nice alternative for those with a different plan for their kids, and A&M will be attractive. All in all, for A&M, the choice is logical and obvious. I agree with all the A&M haters, I too hope A&M goes to the SEC.
The SEC West is one of the toughest divisions in the country
A&M might be able to compete every year with Arkansas for 3rd or 4th in the division. When has stiffer competition caused A&M to rise to the occasion except when they play Texas?
For now it is
It wasn’t that long ago that Ole Miss was hopeless, LSU and Alabama were mired in bad coaching hires, and Florida-Tennessee was the real SEC title game. Besides, Arkansas has made the SEC title game three times, which is more than five other members and is tied with Auburn and Georgia in terms of total appearances.
Everything is cyclical in the SEC, especially in the West. Alabama seems set with Saban, but this is a school that burned through Mike DuBose, Franchione, Mike Price, and Mike Shula pretty quickly. When Saban’s gone, all bets are off. LSU may or may not be on solid ground with Miles, no one knows how well Gene Chizik can coach, Houston Nutt is still a wild card, Bobby Petrino can’t find a defense, and Dan Mullen is a prime flight risk if he gets Miss State any good.
There’s certainly room for A&M to compete in the West. The East division is the one with few opportunities for mid-tier teams. Only Florida, Tennessee, and Georgia have been to the championship game from that division, and since the league expanded in 1992, Florida has more division titles (10) than losses to division opponents (nine).
Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog
Sure, but who's the say that a 16 team Pac-16 isn't tougher than the SEC West?
Considering anything can happen, there’s certainly enough quality schools out West to at least be comparable with the SEC. Again, I’d never argue that the SEC isn’t a tougher football conference, but one does not switch conferences for that reason when we both know that the dynamics of the conference can change over a few years.
I look at it this way
The biggest thing is getting to the conference championship game. From there, anything can happen (see: Texas-Nebraska, ’96). So the real question is not the Pac-16 versus the SEC West, but the Pac-16 Inland versus the SEC West.
Let’s keep your assumption that Texas A&M is roughly equal with Arkansas. Arkansas has made the SEC Championship Game on average once every six years. A&M has made the Big 12 Championship Game once every seven years. Given that swapping out Baylor for Colorado, Arizona, and Arizona State would increase the degree of difficulty, it’s unlikely that A&M would increase the frequency of its championship game appearances in the Pac-16 Inland. In fact, you’d expect that frequency to go down.
Of course, adding A&M to the SEC West would increase the degree of difficulty of that division too, so the expected rate for someone on the level Arkansas/A&M would decrease there as well. Just looking at the last 20 years, I’d say that A&M’s chances in a seven-team SEC West are better than in the eight-team Pac-16 Inland, but you might disagree.
Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog
A&M would equal Arkansas only in fan perspective
Certainly not in performance on the field. I would argue that the Big XII South has been as tough a division to win as the SEC West. The winner has never had more than 2 losses and has been undefeated 5 times. Considering the Pac-16 Inland No Country for Old Men division will pretty much be the same as the Big XII South, I’d say Texas A&M’s chances of performing strongly are exactly the same. If they get good they’ll compete, if they don’t they won’t. I don’t think the difficulty of conference or “wanting a challenge” has anything to do with A&M’s decision.
Of course not
A&M is $16 million in debt, and advisor-to-the-president R.C. Slocum has already said it’s all about the Benjamins:
Slocum said any decision A&M makes will be based purely on its financial impact, and not on more intangible elements, like preserving traditions and rivalries.
I was thinking more from a theoretical perspective. And your description of the Big 12 South more fits the SEC East that the West. The West has had a three-loss champion before; the East has not. Moreover, only three teams from the South have made it to the title game, just like the SEC East. Four North teams have made the title game, while five have made it from the SEC West.
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The Pac 16 money will no doubt favor Texas (vs other conference schools), as it does in the Big12.
How is that? Would the Pac 16 change its Pac 10 policy re revenue-sharing? As I understand it, there are no individual Pac 10 media deals. Am I mistaken? In the SEC, in addition to the ESPN and CBS money, each school gets to broker its own individual deals (UGA gets 11.6 million/year from its own contract with ISP Sports on top of the ~$17 million/year share of the ESPN/CBS money). SEC money favors no one. Vandy gets as much conference money as Florida. But Florida gets to cut its own deals on the side, which I didn’t think Pac 10 schools could do.
"Left Coast"
Most College Football players are Liberals. Simple demographic calculations will tell you that. Your whole liberal-conservative argument is moot.
Holy cow, liberal!!!
Are you really saying that football players are black and therefore hold left coast values????!!! I am sure that since it is a liberal doing it, it is neither stereotyping or profiling. HMMMM…… I think the SEC and A&M have long histories of attracting quality and talented players of all races. And believe it or not, there are black parents that like their kids nearer home too. And believe it or not, there are black parents who are deeply religious, hold profound personally conservative values, and who would feel more at home at an Alabama-A&M game than a Berkeley-Texas game. Some recruits (all races) will like having the choice.
by Texasstocker on Jun 12, 2010 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't interpret it that way.
I thought he was saying that college football players were young, not that they were black.
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/the_curious_case_of_the_libera.php
by BurntOrangeCanadian on Jun 12, 2010 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey, let's talk about religion now
I think this thread got off track somewhere between “left coast” and “socialism.”
What a shame. I thought all Texas fans were perfectly reasonable political moderates.
Hook 'em
Let's drop the politics/religion/race now, community rules.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Jun 12, 2010 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
What "left coast disrespect" is that?
Southern hospitality is a myth, I’ve found. I loved the laid-back culture of the “left coast.”
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
WHAT?
UT fans seriously think that A&M is crazy for going to the SEC. Sorry, but you do not control our destiny as you already have OU, OK ST & Tech riding your coattails. A&M was an old school rival of Arkansas and LSU. In my opinion, the SEC is the most challenging conference. Yeah, TU will have a great ride now that USC is banned from 2 years of bowl games and lost their peral in Pete Carroll. You all can own that market and it should be pretty easy…try out the SEC where you have Florida, LSU, Georgia, Alabama, Kentucky, Tenn…don’t just look at their football programs which have proven to be elite for decades…look at their basketball and baseball programs.
I hoped TU would lead the charge and convinced everyone to stay in the Big 12, however, you guys have all but committed to the PAC 10 where, in my opinion, you have a much better chance of owning the conference.
Arizona State, UCLA, Wash St, Stanford, Cal?? Really? Since everyone is following your decision (except my Aggies), why wouldn’t you convince the Big 12 to stay together and invite 2 teams to keep the 12 teams going? TCU has earned it and there are some other programs that would love to get into the Texas TV market.
Oh well- enjoy yourselves, fight song or not- we won’t ride your coattails. Just because you have more successes in sports and make all of this money, the AGGIES will go out and hit the SEC. Yeah, we may suck for a few seasons in football but STRONG competition will only make us better. I feel we are already able to compete in baseball, golf, m/w basketball, softball, etc…
Good luck, Texas- you could have secured the Big 12….go enjoy your 2 competition teams: USC and Oregon
what I don't understand
is why the A&M folks keep saying that the PAC X is set up for UT and OU to own the conference (because there is no competition), and yet A&M will have more success in the SEC where there are several elite football programs.
Granted, I agree that the SEC teams provide a more formidable challenge than the current lineup of Pac X schools, but why do A&M fans think that the increased competition will lead to their success, esp when A&M hasn’t been measuring up to UT and OU lately?
Do you really think your that your 5* recruiting will improve with several years of sub – 500 records in football? Your “we may suck for a few seasons in football” comment “may” be an understatement. UT had a run of bad luck against OU in the RRR that cost us some 5* recruits…what do you think several seasons of losing in the SEC will cost you?
Conference ownage
I’m not sure competition level is that good of an argument, anyway. One would hope that whatever decisions are made, the plans are to hang with wherever y’all land for a long, long time. We might safely predict that Vanderbilt (for example) will not return to its pre-WWI glory years any time soon, but all this Perennial Powerhouse talk regarding Bama and LSU (and Texas, for that matter) is fairly shortsighted (of the hind- variety). Texas and Bama are sitting pretty now, and there’s no reason to think they won’t always have strong programs, but the likelihood that they both will experience significant dips in success from time to time within the context of the much-longer conference membership period is pretty high, don’t you think?
Where is the benefit?
Explain how you think it is better for A&M’s competitiveness and recruiting to be in the Pac 16? Will they out-recruit Texas and OU? Seems doubtful. At least with the SEC, there are differences to recruit around. It will work with some kids and some parents. TV exposure is likely to be better playing the higher quality SEC opponents, (vs AZ, AZ state, Oregon, Oregon St, etc). More recruiting differentiation.
by Texasstocker on Jun 12, 2010 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
I don’t necessarily agree about the PAC-10 level of competition. There are some very strong teams out west.
As for the SEC, there are several programs that are very, very good and the others are pedestrian. Much like the Big 12.
by dimecoverage on Jun 12, 2010 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
SEC chants
I would love to hear sarcastic SEC chants at DKR next year as the clock ticks down on a 49-17 blow out.
TV,TV,TV
The only advantage about being in the PAC is TV time (that is if you live on the west coast). As an avid Aggie football fan (class of 92’) living in Arizona, I love the fact that I’ll never miss a game due to time restraints. Football starts at 9:00 am in the fall and I can watch until 10pm, including the beloved Boise St-Hawaii game to try to win any money back I’ve lost. Horn’ fans – bad news for you east coasters. Start adjusting your sleep schedules, your about to enter the money-making 8pm and 9pm east coast time bracket. Even if your having a great season, no one will ever see it. SEC and BIG 10 make dollars because the entire US of A can watch the games. Good luck trying to catch an audience when Texas plays ASU for a 6pm Pacific time start, or maybe early season game against Wash St. Think it will be tough then, try basketball. You can count all the games ESPN broadcast from the PAC on one hand.
Mock as you wish, but if the Aggies get to join the SEC, prepare your eyes for Maroon and White, cause you’ll see a lot more of us, than we’ll see of you!
Gig,em Ags
Don’t most of you think A&M will struggle in the PAC 10 in football? If we are going to struggle in a conference we do not fit in culturally, why would we worry about struggling in a conference we do fit in culturally? I think most true fans are a bit delusional and expect their team to improve every year (look at the posts on this blog about your running game). If we go to the SEC, I expect us to be better on the field than we were last year. I have seen a couple of SEC teams in person. I was there when A&M played UGA. A&M matched up quite well with UGA and was better at the skill positions IMO. Too bad our special teams betrayed us. I think we will be fine in football. If we struggle, we will adapt and improve. The SEC will renegotiate the tv contract they currently have if we join. The best UF, FSU, and Miami were on the field was when the three teams were in different conferences. I think a move to a different conference will help A&M on the field and in living rooms. I would like to continue to face Tx on thanksging day, but if we cannot then so be it. I’d rather play in the SEC and give up that game than play in the PAC 10 and keep it. IMO the only reason that Tx is terrified we are going to go to a different conference (and is making threats about never playing us in any sport etc) is b/c they are worried they will not have another conference voting member who will side with them on every vote.
I wouldn't say we're terrified...
Just entertained at watching A&M pretend to grow a pair… When A&M joins us in the Pac-10, we’ll expect a big “thank you.” Just like how we helped you join the AAU. You’re welcome for that, too.
Hook 'em
A&M is defined by Texas?
" from the school through which much of Texas A&M’s identity is defined"
I guess you could say this, if you also concede the same about UT. Have you forgotten your fight song? it mentions A&M.
Our fight song mentions you
once. Your fight song is built around us. We also have a great rivalry with Oklahoma, so not all our rivalry feelings are aimed towards you.
Texas feelings toward toward A&M are different than your feelings toward us. For one thing, we generally use your correct name, occasionally saying ATM. This is qualitatively different than how you describe us.
Did you just stop reading at that sentence?
Check out the next one. Mentioning a rival in a song does not equal making the song about your rival.
One other thing to consider here
The Texas Legislature has more leverage with A&M and t.u. than the average state because of the permanent university fund. If they really want to, they can force the universities to do what they want (it’s why Baylor was in the Big XII to begin with). I really believe that unless we keep a home and home series going, they won’t allow a split to happen (not necessarily saying that government interference in this is a good thing, just saying its going to happen).
Big XII Redux?
I worry that PAC-X will have the same issues and could implode just like the Big XII did. Especially worrisome to me is with 16 teams, the old PAC-8 becomes one division and all the newbies – including the AZ schools, form the other division. With only two games against the other division every year, I think the western division will be viewed more like an appendage to the PAC-8 than part of the PAC-16.
I wonder if one reason A&M wants to go to the SEC is they feel the PAC-X will end up ending the same way the Big XII did. The Big XII was an artificial conference that was created partly out of politics (Texas ledge) and partly out of desperation. Not all the teams (Nebraska) bought in and there were massive wealth/eyeball disparities that couldn’t be dealt with forever.
I love the idea of joining the PAC-X, but A&M’s reluctance makes sense to me. I hope Texas doesn’t wish we had joined the Big 10 in 15 years, but I suspect we might, especially if A&M gave us a political opening by going to the SEC.
Even if we may regret not going to the Big 10 in 15 years or whatever, we really couldn’t do much. The Big 10 doesn’t want anymore Big 12 schools (or so they say, they’re probably still interested in Texas, who knows). When they were vocal about wanting us, we still had the “Tech problem” meaning that the Texas Legislature wouldn’t let us split with TTU and ATM. The Big 10 wouldn’t swallow Tech just to get UT. I wanted the Big 10 to be where we landed because of the CIC, the chance of playing OSU, PSU, and Michigan compared to the likes of USC and Oregon. The opportunity was there to join the Big 10 earlier if we were able to leave without Tech; they probably would’ve taken ATM. However, leaving Tech seemed impossible at the time so we lost it. We may regret it down the road, but there was nothing we could’ve done to actually join them due to Texas politics.
This is what I thought
However, A&M is seems to be giving us an opening. If A&M really wants to go to the SEC, I don’t see the Legislature requiring that UT and A&M stay together. If we were really talented, maybe we could get the SEC to see Tech and A&M as a package deal.
The chances of the Big 10 not wanting us if we could shed Tech is just tiny.
Sounds like we have about 72 hours to make this work. Tuesday should be interesting.
I've been a Big 10 backer ...
… but it’s over, and it should be. The Pac 10 has given us the perfect solution, considering all the factors.
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 12, 2010 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
The Pac 10 is not a good option.
It’s a weak conf now that USC will be down for the next decade. all the strength in this new conf comes from the Big 12.
by farmersfight on Jun 12, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I’d rather go to the Big 10, but at this point I think Dodds just wants to figure out what the hell the best option is for Texas at this point is. The Pac 10 offer is simple and perfect for us. We get to keep the rivalries with OU, TTU, and ATM most likely. Travel won’t be that big of an issue with the divisional split up in the new Pac X conference compared to the Big 10’s.
Maybe the SEC doesn't want you.
You’ve allready had your hands at killing 2 conferences you were in.
by farmersfight on Jun 12, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it's the other way around.
We don’t like the SEC. They don’t like the learnin’ like we do. Plus have you tried their tea? Dreadful. I can hardly take a sip.
Hook 'em
Sweet Tea.
It is really sweet. Face it though Texas is a liberal school Pac 10 is a good fit. A&M is an conservative school SEC is a good fit.
by farmersfight on Jun 12, 2010 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Right over your head...
Oh well, it was a nice try.
Let me give you a hint: Tea and Sip were both in my comment.
Hook 'em
Heh...swing and a miss
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Ahem:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tea-sip
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Nicely done
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
This is absurd.
The SEC and the Big Ten would throw a party if Deloss Dodds called and said we wanted to join. If you don’t know this, you haven’t been paying attention to the national dialogue. This isn’t meant to be arrogant statement, but it is what it is. Dodds has made money. Lots of money. And he has turned this program into one, if not the premier program in the country with some great coaching hires and leadership. (Dodds is our god and we worship at his solid gold altar.)
A&M has had some tough years. Given the chance, Sherman will do some good things. I’m not so sure about Byrne, but you would know more.
A&M is a very good school with a strong athletic department that can turn things around. When you use these puerile taunts, you do a disservice to Aggies.
by dimecoverage on Jun 12, 2010 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry
for being so successful the past decade, inspiring immense envy from all other Big XII schools. Guess we should’ve sucked and made everyone happier. I’ll let the claim the we “killed” the Big XII slide, but REALLY? WE killed the SWC? Seems like I remember SMU and Jackie Sherrill’s aggies awful recruiting violations of the late 80s/early 90s as a big factor in the demise of the SWC. As JoePa once said: “I can’t retire and leave college football in the hands of the Jackie Sherills and Barry Switzers!”
you're too young to remember this
but texas was on probation twice in the ’80s
the only SWC schools who didn’t go on probation during the ’80s were Arkansas and Rice
Yes, but....
Texas’ infractions paled in comparison to SMU and A&M’s (see website below). A&M got 2 years probation and a 1-year post-season ban. On a completely different note, it annoys me to no end when aggie bloggers don’t capitalize Texas. I know you are referring to the school, but I think it’s extremely disrespectful to our great state. You should always capitalize Texas, no matter what you are referring to. Just call us tu if you want when referring to UT.
http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2007/07/26/dirtiest-football-programs-3-texas-aandm/
if you want to support your argument
you need to a use a better source than a blog from fanhouse
The author says Tech is the dirtiest football program in history, which is laughable when you consider what Alabama has been guilty of just recently.
In any case, Jackie Sherrill was no longer coaching at A&M after the 1988 season, so saying these were “Jackie Sherrill’s Aggies” in the 1990s is a misnomer. The 1994 probation was an issue with student-athlete employment which had nothing to do with the coaches.
The death of the SWC had more to do with the it becoming a once-state conference once Arkansas left than any recruiting violations or NCAA probations.
True, but Sherrill accomplished enough on his own in the 80s. In fact, he was quite impressive.
by dimecoverage on Jun 13, 2010 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
The death of the SWC had a lot to do with the departure of Arkansas, and the fact that it was a one-state conference that had basically become run by A&M and Texas. Also, the growth of the Big Ten and SEC’s TV presence, and the SWC’s lack thereof, destroyed the conference. I don’t see how Texas “killed” it as farmersfight claims.
Texas please reconsider Pac-10 move.
As life long Texas fan, I am not in favor of this Pac 10 move. I much prefer to try to salvage the Big 12. This is Texas, (proud but humble), we should be doing the plucking, not being plucked. We should be bold and go after some top tier programs thru the Big 12 administration. Are we just going to assume that some of these top programs are not interested?
If the Big 12 is not salvageable, then the SEC is next logical choice, if Texas and Oklahoma were to join from the west this would truly be a dream super conference
that would have no equal, and would accelerate to a true play off system.This would create a get on board or get left behind senario.
The SEC Football Schools stadium capacity are all on par with Texas, 101,000, most of their stadiums all hold 90,000 to 100,000. Texas football has more in common with
SEC football than Pac-10 football. AS far as the arguement, that this will open the door to
the SEC recruiting the State of Texas, They are already here.
It may gone unnoticed to some, that LSU had made significant recruiting gains in the Houston Texas area, a premier hot bed of talent. If Texas makes the move west, it
will leave the door wide open for LSU. How many parents will want thier child to play for
a team, that will play some of there games out west. When they can drivea few hours to Baton Rouge. The drive to west Texas alone is almost 800 miles. You can reach most schools in the SEC before you can even reach El Paso,Texas. Then you still have to cross New Mexico before you reach any Pac 10 Team.
This Pac-10 move will just confirm the sterotype, that Texas has more in common with
Cal Berkly and Stanford, liberal, anti-establisment crowd. I reject that sterotype. That sterotype is a small minority of Texas fans. I am tired of the elitist attitude that exists with in a small minority especially as it relates to academics. The last time I checked Rice still looks down it’s noses at our academic standards. Let’s just dispense with the superior attitude and get some perspective here. Texas is a big State and not a majority of it opinions are represented by this minority. The University of Texas is the Flag ship program of a conservative State.
This notion
being advanced by some that Texas should go to the SEC to avoid being affiliated with those “socialists” out west is ludicrous.
If I were to say that Texas should go to the PAC-10 to avoid being affiliated with those [insert deep south stereotype here] in the SEC, it would be equally ridiculous.
Let’s fight our political battles elsewhere, por favor.
As an outside observer
I agree that the “left coast” stuff is not all that interesting or persuasive. There appears to be a significant overlap between political conservatives and hardcore CFB fans (I’m a politically liberal hardcore CFB fan, FWIW). The overlap is a red herring, however. It’s not Berkeley’s politics that make it a less attractive conference affiliate: it’s their average of under 60,000 per game in a stadium with a capacity of over 70,000. Only four Pac 10 schools cracked the top 30 in average game attendance in 2009; and none in the top 10; only one in the top 20. Half the top 10 were SEC schools, and another 4 were ahead of Cal (including South Carolina and Kentucky!).
That shouldn’t be and won’t be the deciding factor among the powers that be (except to the extent that it correlates with TV marketability), but from a fan’s perspective, I can understand that it’s food for thought. In my opinion, that’s the cultural difference that would engage my interest, not anything political.
It's true, there are many great things to do on the west coast
And that’s not really the case in Auburn or Gainesville.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
No doubt.
I’d much rather visit the Bay Area than Gainesville. However, I’d rather see a football game in the Swamp than in Memorial.
What I mean...
…is that when I was living in California, it was a lot easier to not be as football-centric in everyday life than it was when I was living in Killeen. There’s nothing to do in Killeen except (1) watch football, (2) vomit from the unpleasantness of living in that area, and (3) leave for places like Salado and Austin. Granted, #3 was awesome. But living on the Monterey Peninsula, I had things I wanted to go do every single day of the week. It’s my favorite place I’ve ever lived by a wide margin, and that’s even over the time I lived in Germany during college.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2010 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
By the way ...
Great signature line. Not to get all political or anything, but did you hear about someone’s asking if anyone thought of plugging the BP leak with copies of Atlas Shrugged?
by NCT on Jun 12, 2010 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's a riot!
I was going to suggest old AOL promo discs, or maybe grape nuts, but that’s probably a better idea.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Then some should depense with superior attitude, these people don’t represent the majority Texas fans. I am tired of it, and being sterotyped with it. Time for Texas fans to condemn it.
I don't think it is
I think there should be no assumption about the fanbase’s political majority alignment, actually. It shouldn’t even be a consideration. Having spent quite a bit of time in ATX, Arizona, and the central/northern Pacific, I think Austin and UT have a lot more in common with those areas than they do with most of what I’ve seen in SEC territory.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2010 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions
It is
The University of Texas, not The University of Austin, or did I not get the memo.
Did you ever study Venn diagrams?
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2010 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions
It's also not the University of Berkeley
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 13, 2010 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions
It rings true yet again
"I live in the tower with Coach Brown." -Bevo
by run Bevo run on Jun 12, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Blue island in a red sea...
That’s how I describe Austin to people who don’t really like Texas.
I thought politics was off limits here? PB, Hopkins, anybody gonna throw down the hammer on all this “left coast socialist” nonsense?
Hook 'em
Obviously, the definition of socialism has gravitated from being a political term to one that is primarily social-political.
There’s little or no public ownership of the means of production, thus little socialism as a political belief system here per se. The real conflict is commodity vs. utility: do you sell the living hell out of something until the scarcity forces the price higher and higher and the commodity is depleted or do you use a utility model and conserve for the common good (like water). Depletion and predation are the serious factors for consideration.
So, the “left coast socialists” comments are really gratuitous social confirmations, not political statements except as conservative dog whistles.
Yes, those who make such comments should be warned.
Speaking of leftists and socialists
I was really looking forward to Aggie-Cal games. I planned to attend every time the game was in Berkeley.
A&M must go to the PAC-10. This just has to happen.
by dimecoverage on Jun 12, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
A&M Stanford would be better
I’m an A&M faculty member and a Stanford alum. The LSJUMB would be aspiring to outdo the MoB at getting the Ags to riot.
Any preferred destination?
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Jun 12, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
And not just because they offend the absolute holy hell out of a concerted subject of the topic.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Jun 12, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Polite warnings for the political discourse...
…hammer time for what the jackass above was doing. One of the deleted comments, in its entirety, rhymed with mutt bucker.
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 12, 2010 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow. Just wow.
Reading this thread is a dim reminder that nearly everything we (and everyone else) say about Aggies is entirely true.
Why do you care what A&M does?
If you are better than us why does it matter what we do? You’d think you would be glad to finally be rid of us unsophisticated hicks.
I'm for what s best for Texas schools
….and having both the SEC, PAC 16, and the Mountain west(which should now have a BCS bid) all in the same state is great for Texas!
by farmersfight on Jun 12, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe Texas High School player ...
won’t have to leave the state.
by farmersfight on Jun 12, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Wow, where did all these Aggie posters come from?
Great news Beergut, you finally have some company on your game threads.
by goingforthecorner on Jun 12, 2010 12:38 PM CDT reply actions
There is one important element being left out of this equation.
The people of Texas…they have a particular fondness for the Thanksgiving game.
They will definitely have something to say…which may or may not be represented by the Lege when they jump into the fray.
Even those without an affiliation with Texas or A&M will have some say.
General
Thanks, ladies and gentlemen, for tolerating a visitor’s random comments. I’ve enjoyed my few visits here over the last few years. Good luck with wherever you end up, and come see us in Athens some day.
Enjoyed your comments
Don’t be a stranger.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Jun 12, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm a Cal alum, so consider my biases as you will, but...
Pac-10 makes the most sense, without question, for UT. The three As: Academics, athletics (more than just football), and alums along the West Coast make it almost a no-brainer for them. Everything fits quite easily.
I like the Aggies and have since the ‘06 Holiday Bowl against them. Aside from a few a**hole fans, most acted with respect and were fun to tailgate with. And I have plenty of A&M friends on the West Coast as well who would love to be able to see games live. But if the general impression by fans and administration is the SEC (assuming the SEC would actually, you know, offer an invite), then go. But know that you’re doing it for “culture” and football only. (I would disagree with the “culture” argument at least — but that’s another can of worms.)
The Ags would be a welcome addition to the Pac-whatever, and I know plenty of alums from Cal, Oregon and others who would agree. We’re a welcoming, friendly bunch out here, and we don’t mind differences of opinion in any regard. The argument about “eyes on TVs” is silly too because the whole point of the conference re-orgs is to get a strong television contract to change the way the Pac-10 was traditionally broadcast.
Something I would like to emphasize though: We in Pac-10 land don’t need A&M as long as we get Texas. We’ll have an in to the large Texas television markets, which was the whole point of this. But, as a fan and alum, we are looking forward to y’all joining the fray. Hopefully we’ll get a “yea” on Tuesday.
Appreciate the comments
And I for one look forward to 10 PM Saturday night starts, if I can stay up that late.
Anybody care to weigh in on the urban/rural distinction, and its interplay on the respective stakeholders?
As someone who considers a city of a half-million people “small”, I’m not sure I can meaningfully identify with that part of aggieland.
proud to swim home
Texas fans, students and alumni from Dallas, Fort Worth, San Antonio, Austin, Houston vs. rural Texas comparing L.A., Seattle, San Fransisco, Phoenix, etc. vs. Baton Rouge (fun town btw), Fayetteville, Gainesville, Athens, Tuscaloosa, Auburn, Oxford, etc.
And A&M fans, students, Alumni more comfortable in College Station making the same comparison vis a vis many Pac 10 locales and the SEC counterparts.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Jun 12, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
When
did I use the words rual or aggieland in my previous posts? I am a life long Houstonian, and a die hard Texas fan. Go back and read for content. I think you missed the entire point of
my arguments. This is about my reasons for Texas not joining the Pac 10, not the aggies.
I'm absolutely confident you missed the entire point of my post
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Jun 12, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Preserve This Rivalry
This Buckeye fan wants you Texans to put the spurs to your legislature and preserve this rivalry. TX vs. Texas A&M reads like this, up here, just a few steps fro the Ohio-Michigan boarder:
An Epic College Football Rivalry!
These teams must stay together. Rivalry is the foundation of college football.
by Buckeye Armyguy on Jun 12, 2010 2:53 PM CDT reply actions
Pardon the Typos
I meant “from the Ohio-Michigan border.” Sorry.
by Buckeye Armyguy on Jun 12, 2010 2:55 PM CDT reply actions
East Carolina athletic director Terry Holland Quoted
While this quote is purely speculative, it’s fairly compelling:
“I believe Texas will hold the Big 12 together … if Texas holds the Big Whatever together, the Pac-10’s quick strike will come back to haunt them because they are now committed to finding at least one more member who can add value to the Pac-10. Colorado’s main value was as ‘bait’ for Texas, Oklahoma, etc., in order to create real value for the Pac-10.”
So, you guys think there’s ANY chance TX DOESN’T bolt for the PAC?
by Buckeye Armyguy on Jun 12, 2010 3:08 PM CDT reply actions
Could you re-phrase the question?
I think you’re reading too much into this question. I doubt there are many Aggies out there who want a divorce with Texas. I dread the thought, but like many other Aggies, the only thought I dread more is going to the PAC-10. Whether or not this is the primary motivator for A&M’s dance with the SEC, none of us can know right now – the only people who do know are keeping pretty tight-lipped.
What is not clear to me is if the schools “break-up”, why it’s A&M’s fault. I’m sure the SEC would be happy to have Texas. In which case I would suggest “What is Texas thinking?” I know the PAC-10 gets academic types all excited, but surely most Texas-exes don’t need validation from the likes of Cal and Stanford.
Unrelated, but while I’d rather spend a typical weekend in Seattle or LA, I’d rather spend a football weekend in Athens or Tuscaloosa.
Texas has been, and will always be, concerned with academic reputation. This is not a bad thing. Austin is also more culturally aligned with the west than with the SEC.
Larry Scott is impressive. He hired the former Big 12 commish and from all reports, this may have been the man who drove a wedge with UT and the Big 10. Now that Scott has the largest conference and the program that everyone wanted besides Notre Dame, he can basically write his own network contract. And don’t discount the importance of the Land Thieves. The big thing Nebraska and OU have is national following. These schools attract tv sets on Saturday afternoon. OU is tagging along so the PAC-10 gets two big fish in the deal.
Silve and the SEC has their contract, and while the revenue will continue to grow, they now have to divide that money between more schools. The PAC-10 will be negotiating a contract after they have all the new members. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next couple of years.
The PAC-10 is the best option for Texas at this point.
by dimecoverage on Jun 12, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions
"its the economy...I mean the culture, stupid"
You hit the nail on the head with Austin’s cultural compatibility with the west coast. This vibe probably comes from the faculty, administration and the city of Austin itself (which, despite the claim, hasn’t really been wierd for 20+ years). However, there’s a big part of the 40 Acres that looks a lot more like UGA, Bama and Ole Miss. I suspect this is how a lot of people driving around with Texas-Exes stickers see their school. The handful of t-sips I’ve talked to about this aren’t very excited about the PAC-10. Of course, I don’t know that they would any more excited about the SEC – still yearning for the old SWC days I guess.
Texas will be fine wherever it goes. Even so, the administration may have a difficult time convincing the rank-and-file there is a quantifiable benefit to joining the PAC-10. And I’m afraid TAMU may be joining with them.
Speaking of academics, if you take care of yourself, you’ll have little need to worry. Look at Rice; being surrounded by the rest of the bozos of the SWC for sixty years didn’t hurt them or their reputation.
You’d be surprised about the old-timers feelings about the PAC-10. A lot of them are excited about the move and were never in favor of the SEC. They don’t like the academics or the past history of some of the programs (NCAA sanction issues).
by dimecoverage on Jun 12, 2010 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
SEC is a joke academically
If a&m wants to associate with them that is fine. I think the aggies are so stuipd sometimes that I kind of want them to go out on their own. Let them prove themselves.
I have lost a lot of respect for the aggie’s just by their willingness to entertain the SEC. I would expect this from OU, and it is weird that OU is the school blowing off the SEC. It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to know that following ARK is not going in the right direction academically, but good luck to them. Go ahead aggies, make my day.
PAC 10. I don’t like it. Cali schools are fine, but they are too far away to be aligned with by conference. I don’t care a rat’s as* about AZ or AZ State. I really want to go to the BIg 10 or try to revive the limping Big 12. We could go after TCU, Utah, etc…I don’t care, any two halfway decent schools are fine. NU and CU stunk up the place athletically so they really aren’t that hard to replace. I would put OU in the north of the Big 12, and add 2 more teams-1 to the norht and 1 to the south. I just don’t see any advantage to being the minority addition to the Pac 10.
Finally,
someone who gets it. What is Texas thinking?
Or Memorial stadium.
I don't think there's anybody on either side that "wants" a divorce
But there are those that are happy to tolerate it as a means of getting away from Texas. The Horns want $$$+academics (including research $$$), the SEC only offers part of that equation.
It’s A&M’s fault because they don’t want to go along. It may be perfectly a understandable decision, but don’t act like there aren’t consequences or that it’s Texas’ fault because we earn more money than you due to athletics success (*ahem Nebraska). If the choice is the SEC then make the choice without publicly finding a scapegoat to throw under the bus.
Then There's The Business Perspective...
Texas in the PAC, on FSN, ESPN and ABC
Texas A&M in the SEC, on CBS, ESPN and ABC
Helluva lot of eyeballs.
by Buckeye Armyguy on Jun 12, 2010 3:30 PM CDT reply actions
Why in god's name would they want to go
to the freakin Pac-10?
Questioning A&M’s move is correct but christ almighty….talk about a waste going to that conference
The SEC is where the respect is, fanaticism is, and TV/Money….going to the Pac-10 makes zero sense
Texas/A&M can still play each other at the end as UF/FSU and GT/UGA do
The PAC-Appeal - Like It or Not
The SEC is enjoying great success. But, there’s way more money to be made and tons more exposure in…the PAC:
Number of Top Twenty-Five Media Markets Per Conference (current as of 06/12/10)
(source: http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets)
SEC – Atlanta #8, Tampa #13, Miami #16 and Orlando #19
PAC – Los Angeles #2, San Francisco #6, Phoenix #12, Seattle #14, Denver #18, Sacramento #20 and Portland #22
TX – Dallas #5 and Houston #10
Would TX have more clout, bringing two Top Ten t.v. markets to the SEC?
Or…is the appeal of adding even more to the PAC’s audience mean lots more money, than ANY deal with the SEC?
Plus, there’s the PAC tie-in to the Rose Bowl. Longhorn fans have enjoyed a couple of magical nights at the foot of the San Gabriel Mountains. Wouldn’t it be nice to ALWAYS have a chance to go to the Rose Bowl, as the PAC-Champ, at the very least.?
From the long view, I would suggest to A&M fans that “cultural” issues could be overcome, gradually, because you’ll have some Big 12 neighbors with you and that will facilitate a transition. Moreover, AZ is kinda liberal. But, AZ ST. is pretty conservative. A&M will not play the likes of SC, UCLA, STAN and Cal, every year.
by Buckeye Armyguy on Jun 12, 2010 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions
TV money
I read a blog interviewing a TV executive that basically said that the PAC 16 east idea was not particularly attractive. Basically, you get the Big 12 south, minus Baylor and possibly minus A&M, plus Colorado and the AZ schools……. No added value over the existing 10 team Big 12 for TV purposes. Let’s face it. California is not going to watch Pac 16 east games any more than Texas is going to watch Duck and Washington games. This may not be the slam dunk idea it is being reported to be. Like the school reps have been saying, this will all come down to TV money.
Check that Exec's Cred's
Top Twenty-Five Television Markets, below. You’ll see why TX is so attractive to the PAC. Remember, the PAC’s about to cut a new deal. The TX ingredient makes the PAC, more appetizing:
PAC – Los Angeles #2, San Francisco #6, Phoenix #12, Seattle #14, Denver #18, Sacramento #20 and Portland #22
TX – Dallas #5 and Houston #10
by Buckeye Armyguy on Jun 12, 2010 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree. I watched North division games any time I could and if we are a member of the PAC-10, I will want to watch games in the other division.
by dimecoverage on Jun 12, 2010 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Keep the Big 12 together?
If the Big 12 is kept together, does it make economic sense to replace the two defectors to maintain a lucrative championship game? Who makes sense? U of H and TCU play good football, but don’t add to the Texas market. Or do they? Local rivalries matter? What about Air Force and BYU? It keeps a toe hold on Colorado plus a national footprint of AirForce, plus adds Utah and a lot of Mormon eyes? Add all 4 teams and go to 14 teams? Couldn’t Texas pull off a Fox affiliated network with all that to work with? As lucrative as the Pac16 east will actually be to TV executives? I think the execs will figure out that the theoretical California eyes won’t be watching the very separate east division.
Texas afraid of SEC competition?
It is the other way around.
There are at least a a couple of SEC coaches who have privately endorsed adding the Aggies, our source said. They "really like the idea of expanding into the Texas (television) market and east Texas recruiting base without having to play The University of Texas on a regular basis. But I absolutely do not see A&M competing in the SEC since it was such an average team in the Big 12. I’m telling you, if A&M goes to the SEC, then it’s a much better deal for (Alabama coach) Nick Saban and (LSU) coach Les Miles than it is for (A&M coach) Mike Sherman."
So, the SEC gets the Texas market, gets to invade your recruiting territory and usurp any head way Sherman has made and you get beaten pretty much every year. Great thinking, Aggies.
Good riddance and god speed.
I don’t have a problem with Mack Brown’s record against either coach. We’ve had at least 10 wins per year for the last…how many is it now? How have those same years been for A&M, Beergut?
Meet Nick Saban, your new Mack Brown.
Enjoy the SEC ride, Aggies.
by dimecoverage on Jun 13, 2010 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions
exactly...
A&M is being used, and they Aggies are too dumb not to be insulted by it.
by BrooklynHorn on Jun 13, 2010 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I think someone put it in another thread...
…but aggie is Farva in this caper. Sooner or later they’ll end up being deloused in their birthday suits with an elephant hose.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 13, 2010 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions
So Basically the Aggies are Confirming it, Then?
From the vast majority of TAMU folks I’m hearing here today, it sure sounds like it’s a case of, “Well, you guys never let us win, and you’re mean to us, and you make fun of us, so we’re gonna go find someone else! So there! Let’s see if you miss when we’re gone! SNIFF SNIFF.” Beh. Good riddance.
In-VINCE-able.
Yep, exactly
And I just keep laughing at them because if they think they had it tough with a schedule of K-State, I-Sate and Baylor—well, I just don’t think they have a clue. Let them go. They think they are going to be the big man on campus in the SEC. I can’t wait to see the SEC reaction to a daily dose of corp turd b.s. We tolerate it from them because they are family, but when they take that nonsense out in public and try to act like it is normal, well, they will just have to deal with it themselves.
Texans! Be Cautious.
As a Buckeye fan, I’ve always respected your school and teams. Yours is an icon of college football. Mack Brown’s not only a great coach – we like him.
Buckeye fans have enjoyed our series with TX. I remember visiting this site immediately after you beat us in the Fiesta Bowl. You were very respectful and complimentary toward the Buckeyes. I look forward to future battles with the Longhorns. And, of course, it would be the B10’s honor to welcome you into our family.
Everybody wants Texas.
I’m wondering if you guys should stay put, however.
I mean, with USC’s troubles and the PAC’s revenue issues, is it possible Larry Scott might be wooing Texas to use as leverage in a future broadcast deal?
Right now, Texas is the class of its conference and the most powerful. Would ceding that position and power be worth bolting to a fairly chaotic PAC or talent-dense SEC?
Doff your ten-gallons and listen to this clip:
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?id=5276737&autoplay=1&callsign=ESPNRADIO
by Buckeye Armyguy on Jun 12, 2010 8:36 PM CDT reply actions
As much as we would love to go to the Big Ten, it can’t happen. Tech has to come along and so, it seems, OSU after Pickens 100 million donation to Texas.
The PAC-10 is a very good option for us and a good fit.
by dimecoverage on Jun 12, 2010 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with you about the TX and the B10.
One thing we here a lot up here is, TX could be like ND – independent. Given the detail you’ve provided about OK ST., that seems a misperception.
I hope you’re right about the PAC. I can envision many upsides, certainly. Their brand will take a hit, due to USC’s inequities, I suspect. Who knows how much. And that issue will be raised by the network negotiating with the PAC.
Then, again, USC struggling for half a decade could work to the advantage of the Longhorns.
by Buckeye Armyguy on Jun 12, 2010 9:01 PM CDT reply actions
One of our conference members in trouble with the NCAA a problem?
We’re used to it. We have the Sooners. They will give USC a run for their money. Literally. :-)
by dimecoverage on Jun 12, 2010 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Uhh… that’s “about TX and the B10.”
and
One thing we “hear.”
I need an editor. Sorry.
by Buckeye Armyguy on Jun 12, 2010 9:02 PM CDT reply actions
A&M
Someone explain to me why it matters what A&M decides to do. I know it’s an interesting topic of discussion and a chance for some Aggies to beat their chests, but in the end, I don’t really care if they’re with us or not. And it really won’t have any kind of effect on Texas.
Don't give a rats arse about Ags but SEC is the way to go. From an old SWC Horn
I’m an old UT guy from the SWC. I’ve hated the Big 12 ever since we joined. We missed the boat in 1991 by being arrogant and not going to the SEC because we didn’t want to look like Arkansas had a good idea. We need to suck it up and take this opportunity, once again, which has been afforded us to not screw it up again. We love big time football and I can guarantee you playing the Left Coast teams will be horrible for you. I’ve been to many of them and if you love Buffy and the sweater on your back well Dudes and Dudess you’re in the big time. But, I just can’t think of playing quality football in the PAC-10 as there is in the SEC. Throw out all your numbers, stats, whatever, this is a once again in a lifetime chance to finally do it right. If we do go to the PAC-10 I want to be the first to tell you that you’ll be screaming at this decision in less than five years. The rest of the Big 12 isn’t quality unless you like basketball. Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State (and to a point now since their star has dimmed) Oklahoma. I want to be in a Texas type football conference. We’re not going to lose any more prospects than we already do if we go to the SEC. Arkansas, LSU and MS and to a point AL are getting their more than fair share now. That’s the type football the kids want and that’s the type football I love. Gosh, this is such a mess right now. My stomach’s churning and heck we aren’t even through the weekend yet.
by RoughriderfromTexas on Jun 12, 2010 11:48 PM CDT reply actions
hmmmm
near total separation from the school through which much of Texas A&M’s identity is defined
This is just stupid.
The defining tradition at A&M is Muster; it doesn’t have a damn thing to do with texas.
I would say the second defining tradition at A&M is Silver Taps; it also doesn’t have a damn thing to do with texas.
Does texas define itself through Oklahoma? If you don’t, then why do you assume A&M defines itself through its rival? Does Army define itself through Navy? Does Navy define itself through Army? I think you are extrapolating school spirit regarding athletics into a social definition of people, and that’s an incredible stretch.
Don’t dare try to refute it, just take a look at their fight song.
The first verse of the War Hymn doesn’t mention texas at all:
Hullabaloo, Caneck, Caneck
Hullabaloo, Caneck, Caneck
All hail to dear old Texas A&M
Rally around Maroon and White
Good luck to dear old Texas Aggies
They are the boys who show the real old fight
That good old Aggie Spirit thrills us
And makes us yell and yell and yell
So let’s fight for dear old Texas A&M
We’re gonna beat you all to Chigaroogarem
Chigaroogarem
Rough, Tough, real stuff Texas A&M
“The Spirit of Aggieland”, our alma mater, doesn’t mention texas at all, either. If we are DEFINED by texas, as you claim, how do you explain this omission?
Second, there is the cold shoulder likely to be extended by all four of the Big XII teams heading out west.
I’m really not seeing why this would concern us at all. Despite the past 14 years of conference play, we don’t have a rivalry with Oklahoma like y’all do, and losing Oklahoma State on our schedule has no effect. As for Texas Tech, I think we beat them in everything this year except men’s golf, but I’d have to check. The only game we’d be losing is texas, and that is more as a result of y’all being whiney titty babies upset at not getting your way than anything we would do.
As to your four rationales:
1. Ludicrous
2. Even more ludicrous
3. Wrong, but on the right track. It isn’t about separating ourselves from texas, it is more about the opportunity to make more money and increase our national profile as the only Texas school in the SEC. texas has allegedly already said no to the SEC, so they’ve basically thrown a terrific opportunity right into A&M’s lap.
Using the Arkansas and Georgia games to support your argument is disingenuous; A&M started a LOT of underclassmen last season, so to give credence that protion of your argument is to assume these players will never mature or improve their skills and get better; that is just asinine.
4. Why even waste your time suggesting something so stupid?
You will have a loss against Tech this year in Football.
Promise.
" Answers --Become Resources."
Without Questions, There are limited Resources...
Perhaps the Ags want to leave because of Tech?
After all, A&M just leads that series 35-32 (And they would be behind if it weren’t for a string of victories during WWII). And, at the moment, it’s reasonable to bet on Tuberville over Sherman over the next decade.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Jun 13, 2010 7:03 AM CDT up reply actions
It'll be fun talking to you after we thump you at Kyle Field
are y’all planning on at least trying to stop the run this year?
Are y'all planning to finish dead last in the conference again in:
-points allowed per game?
-total yardage allowed per game?
-passing yardage allowed per game?
-receptions allowed per game?
-yards allowed per carry?
-rushing touchdowns (per game AND total)?
Of course, there are many other categories in which aggie was in the bottom half of the conference—actually, I believe almost all of them—but those are just the ones in which the team was ranked last.
It’s funny that you’d ask a Tech fan if they’re going to try to stop the run, when in fact Tech was better than aggie in every single one of those statistical categories, including yards/carry and rushing touchdowns.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 13, 2010 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought the first verse of the "War Hymn" was added later...
..after some moderate Ags (probably two percenters) complained that it was all about Texas. Then Reveille or whoever wrote a new verse, but everyone hated it, and so Ags just ignore it.
Hook 'em
Who says Wikipedia doesn't have any value?
In 1928, Wilson wrote another verse at the request of several Aggie students who thought the original was too focused on the Aggies’ rivalry with the University of Texas. This verse is now the first verse of the song but it never caught on, in part because many felt it sounded too much like an Ivy League song. To this day, the second (original) verse is usually sung twice.
Just accept that Tech has replaced us as your true rival
denial is so unflattering.
by BrooklynHorn on Jun 13, 2010 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions
OMG!!!
NOW youre perpetrating this lie at BON???
youre DELUSIONAL!!!!
the first verse of the Quaiggie War Hymn is
“goodbye to texas university”
PERIOD
anything else you say is a LIE. And YOU, my friend are a liar. Anything you say after that is your delusional effort to change perceptions of your obvious inferiority complex to the U of Tex.
Just because someone wrote a “new 1st verse” which no one knows, or no one has ever heard, the facts dont change. And your “lies” to the effect of no one knowing “why Pinky wrote the War Hymn the way he did”, and you knowing “several Aggies who sing both verses” is all a bunch of obfuscating BS!!!
The Lyle Leong Bandwagon will Continue to Roll!!!
Respect Everyone....Fear No One!
Wreck 'em, Tech!
by Tortilla Pirate on Jun 13, 2010 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Do you see the harm you Aggies have done?!
We’re now getting along great with Tech and OU because of you! For shame!
Tortilla Pirate is just upset because I contradicted him on DTN
Apparently, school fight songs are serious business in Lubbock.
Contradict, yes
Prove your not a liar, no.
The Lyle Leong Bandwagon will Continue to Roll!!!
Respect Everyone....Fear No One!
Wreck 'em, Tech!
by Tortilla Pirate on Jun 13, 2010 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Who says texas is afraid of joining the sec?
I beleive texas’ all time record against the Southeastern Conference is 34 wins, 16 losses and 2 ties, through the 2009 season, and Their all-time record against current SEC members is 95-46-4. That’s not to shabby in my opinion. They are probably the one school in the country that can come into the sec and not miss a beat from the begining.
Hotty Toddy and Hook'em Horns.
by Olemissreb451 on Jun 13, 2010 7:44 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
And the sad part:
I think Vandy is the current SEC team with the best record against Texas.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 13, 2010 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions
aggies
The Ags could not exist without big brother Texas.. As the song says if they split from the rest: “what was I thinking?”
Thoughts on PAC16 Scheduling and a Message to A&M Fans
Greetings BON community! I have to say that this is Christmas in June with everything happening. 30 years from now Longhorn fans will still be thanking President Bill Powers and Deloss Dodds for putting this deal together. My thought is on how we are going to do the conference scheduling. I do not like the idea of playing everyone in our side of the division every year. Instead I propose a quad system where you play everyone in your quad each year and then alternate home and home games with the rest of the conference. For example:
Quad 1- Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Ok St
Quad 2- Arizona, Az St, Colorado, Kansas
Quad 3- USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal
Quad 4- Oregon, Oregon St, Washington, Wazzou
If we play the Arizona schools plus Colorado and Kansas every year then that leaves us 2 games against the rest of the conference. It will take forever for us to play Oregon and Stanford. I am giddy with excitement at the thought of in 2012 Texas playing USC at DKR with Garrett Gilbert as a senior matching up against Matt Barkley. All the talking heads saying USC will be severely weakened are wrong. Even if they’re not as good as previous years then the balance of power and talent will be at UCLA. Blue chip athletes will always wanna play for either USC or UCLA. I seem to remember Mike Shula coaching Alabama a few years back while on probabation and look how fast it took them to get back to championship football.
Now to all Texas A&M fans taking to the internets to voice their support of the SEC and trash the culture of UT and Austin. A divorce is sometimes best for everyone. But lets all agree we wanna play each other every Thanksgiving in a non conference game. It’s a laughable notion that A&M will ever get to a bowl not in Shreveport with the schedule they will be playing in the SEC followed by an end of the year showdown with Texas. To all Texas fans and admirers of what the City of Austin has turned into, this should be a wonderful moment that we no longer have to carry our College Station brethren with us every where we go. Aggies are destined to mix in cultural black holes like Starkville and Lexington while Texas fans can take pride in being with the best cities and academic institutions like Stanford in the Silicon Valley, Washington in the land of Microsoft, and Southern California where Longhorn fans have had some of the greatest moments in recent history. Hey Aggies for the sake of the quality of gene pools in Texas I really do hope your sister gets her period and you can crack a winning record some day in the SEC.
by IAMLOVELLPINKNEY on Jun 13, 2010 10:48 AM CDT reply actions
Why Share The Spotlight?
Up here in the Great Lakes region, two teams dominate this expansion talk: TX and ND. Moreover, this opinion keeps getting posited: if they wanted to, the Longhorns could go independent. Why not? It’s not gonna keep’ya from playin’ ANYBODY – let alone A&M, Tech and the Sooners. Who’s NOT gonna want to play Texas?
Texas wants its own television deal. Everybody knows it. And it can get it, too. Everybody knows it. I have to imagine Dodds has thought about this – at least – for a second. I think Tom Osborne put “all the options” on Dodds’ table, by jetting to the B10.
Now, Irish independence is more precarious. Unlike Texas, ND hasn’t won much of late. The worst-kept secret is, that Notre Dame is living off its legacy.
Via phone, last week, Kirk Herbstreit cited “officials” at NBC who told him that because ND’s ratings are not that huge, its contract with the Peacock is not so ironclad. Besides, it’s up for renewal, soon. ND could be released, early.
I suspect NBC has imagined becoming the network of the PAC-16 or…“The Longhorn Channel.”
Bottom line, why the hell would Texas want to share its huge spotlight, by joining a crowded SEC or enduring long flights to play certain teams in the PAC?
by Buckeye Armyguy on Jun 13, 2010 11:19 AM CDT reply actions
Another angle
Obviously, football’s driving the bus here. From my understanding, the Pac-10 and the Big XII are both saddled with bad TV deals that expire soon. UT brings the biggest audience, and solidifies the major markets in Texas (but they don’t have as large a national following as ND, so that axes the idea of UT doing their own network deal). That’s attractive to the Pac-10 because they would be able to use that as leverage in the next round of TV deals (current deals expire in 2011). UT joining the Pac-10 would immediately place them at the table when these negotiations take place. It’s not like the SEC or Big 10 that already have deals in place.
The other angle that I see is with the Pac-10’s strengths in the non-football sports. The Pac-10 leads all conferences in NCAA team championships, and for most of the sports that UT competes in, the Pac-10 would represent an upgrade.
Logistically, the Pac-10 simply makes more sense than the Big-10 or the SEC. UT would be in a division that mostly stays in the Central time zone. Where things might get messier would be with the other sports. For example, how often would the softball team need to travel up to Seattle to play Washington, and how often would the other west coast teams out west need to go into Lubbock or Stillwater to play in the non-revenue sports?
Then there’s the balancing of the schedule. From a purely sports point of view, I don’t like the mega-conference format. The Pac-10 right now primarily plays a balanced round-robin schedule — every team plays one another an equal number of times. Going to 16 teams would introduce unbalanced scheduling. I don’t like that, but competitive balance is obviously not a consideration in this realignment chess game.
A&M gets it right
As a fan who grew up in Alabama, spent a decade in Dallas, and now live in FLorida, I think A&M is making the right choice in coming to the SEC. Everyone is comparing A&M to Arkansas and that is simply incorrect. Arkansas lost their recruiting base coming to the SEC while A&M will markedly strengthen theirs. Texas will always get their choice of the 400 or so D1 recruits in the state, just as UF gets their choice in Florida. What is now changed is that A&M will now have advantages that it never had before, more TV exposure, more discussion on ESPN when playing LSU, ALA or others, more money, and the status of being a clear 2nd choice in the state where they had slumped into a second place pile of Tech, TCU, A&M and OK schools.
I think A&M will thrive in the SEC, It will now be a plum job for up and coming coaches, and by stepping out of UT’s shadow the demographics of Texas will be a much better asset for A&M,
I see why Texas would have no interest in the SEC, But for A&M it could be a game changer.
Exposure does not improve recruiting
Winning does. Otherwise Mississippi State and Vandy, who play the exact same schedule, would be dominating. Changing a conference for the purpose of influencing future 17 year old kids is among the dumbest reasons for the move. It simply is not true and if A&M’s leaders believe it is true then the Aggies are in some real trouble.
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