Orangebloods Realignment Timeline
Who knows how accurate it is, but I think it's worth the read. Very interesting stuff.
[Considering Chip Brown's been right on just about everything so far, his post-mortem report on the death and resurrection of the Big 12 is a must-read. It's going to be the definitive account until someone writes a book in a few years (which will, of course, likely be Chip Brown...) --BZ]
almost 2 years ago
Texas Wahoo
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lot of self congratulating in that column
I just dont see how Texas wouldve been portrayed as the fall guy for breaking up a rivalry when it was a&m that chose to go in a different direction than the rest of the group.
furthermore, who cares if we were. we get blamed for just about everything else.
by the other Andrew on Jun 16, 2010 10:33 AM CDT reply actions
You answered your own question.
I just dont see how Texas wouldve been portrayed as the fall guy for breaking up a rivalry…
…we get blamed for just about everything…
I could only imagine the tension that the higher ups have been feeling the last 2 weeks. Probably took 10 yrs off their lives.
Yeah, there is some patting on the back
But, I feel it is well-earned. CB did a great job and he really did keep us in the loop in this new world of instant media. We bloggers/fans were right in the middle of the shake up and reconstruction.
completely unrelated
but did you receive your shirt and photo from the VY Foundation? Mine has not arrived yet, and was wondering if it was an issue with my shipping address.
My bad...I never followed through
I just went to the site now and I don’t see a number to call to see if that is still available but just email and po box.
I went back to see the Fanshot PB posted about the Tenn. floods
I didn’t realize you were the Horn fan from Nashville that posted the pics and video. It looked just like when T.S. Alicia hit here in Houston—and I spent the night sleeping in my Jeep because I couldn’t get home. When I did everything was fine. How lucky.
Also, how lame of me not to make my donation to those in need like I encouraged others to do. I just went over to the Middle Tenn. Redcross and made a donation. I want to make sure the victims get the help and I know the Redcross is great at getting it distributed. I hope all of the Tenn. flood victims are getting the help they need. Let me know if you ever get your pic…..(I really want a VY as a Longhorn pic to tell the truth). Thanks for the tickler.
My shirt and picture actually came in yesterday.
Nashville has recovered strong. Being relatively new to the area, I have a ton of respect for this city. Other than the Opry Land area, everything is back up and running. Thanks for your donation.
gotta agree with two key points here
1. Definitely a Texas spin…from Chip’s angle, it really sounds like A&M was at fault for keeping this shindig together. They could have (A) stuck to the Pac-10 plan, or (B) definitively said they were going to the SEC. Either scenario likely results in the Pac-16 being born.
2. Also, I’ve come across some negative comments directed at Chip Brown, but he’s got to be commended for the amount of effort and dogged reporting he’s put into this whole “missile crisis” (I really wish he’d stop calling it that). Let’s not forget that he’s a regular guy with a job of being a reporter, and it looks like he did a pretty bang-up job of that.
I blame A&M's BOR
we should be in the SEC right now but our leaders are a bunch of cowards.
Chip Brown reported what the Texas athletic department spoon fed him. I do not know how hard it is to report exactly what Deloss Dodds tells you to write.
Blame?
I’m so confused by the reactions of so many folks-Longhorns and Aggies alike.
You Aggies should be praising your BOR. They bluffed their way out of going to the Pac 10 by staring down the Longhorns. And, as far as I can tell, the SEC was not a done deal—not even close. Even if the Aggies got an invite to the SEC, 3 years from now they would be wondering what the heck happened. Good grief, you lost to UGA by 20 points and they were 4-4 in confrence play. And, you would go backwards academically. Not to mention you would have to write a whole new fight song and reinvent a whole new set of traditions. You Ags really need to be sending thank you notes to your BOR-they did a great job.
A&M ruined the Pac-16 dreams
which many would have enjoyed. I’m surprised there isn’t more animosity directed at them.
by goingforthecorner on Jun 16, 2010 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Why is it assumed by Texas fans that A@M cannot win in the SEC
I have seen several times on various blogs that Arkansas both does not belong in the SEC and they have done nothing to show they belong since joining. Since 1992, they have won the SEC west three times and have been to the the SEC championship game three times-this is tied with Auburn, and only behind LSU with 4, and Alabama with 7 trips to Atlanta-and have a good chance to win the west this year. Arkansas did the right thing in 1992. They have been successful on the field without as many recruits form Texas, and recieve equal revenue sharing with other schools in the SEC and are not in a position like the bottom five of the Big 12 today. A@M may or may not get the extra money, but Texas still has more and pulls the strings. A@M is in Texas but have gotten only 10 espn 150 players from Texas since 2006 where Texas has gotten 60 espn 150 players from Texas and Oklahoma has gotten 18 espn 150 players form Texas in the same time frame. A@M could only help their recruiting by moving to the SEC-I have seen the idea that a move to the SEC would hurt A@M in recruiting on many blogs-becuase it certainly is not going well for them right now. A@M is in Texas and Oklahoma is doubling up on them. Texas and Oklahoma have had top five recruiting classes for the last ten years-give or take a year, maybe longer than that-and have only two national championships between them because of the overall competition they have respectively played against during their regular season schedules. The SEC has shown that talent(at least 5 or more SEC schools are in the top twenty in espn recruiting year in year out) + great competition= a tough, battle tested champion that is hard to beat. Four straight national champions and six of the last twelve have proved this. It would be in the best interests of Texas A@M for their BORs to vote them into the SEC and get out of the unstable Big 12. They would get similar amounts of money, improve recruiting, join a conference that they have a lot in common with- passionate fans who enjoy football and tailgaiting-from what i’ve seen from their fan posts about this issue-I do not remember seeing any bumber stickers to keep College Station weird and do not remember any hippie movement taking place there giving more of a pac 10 feel-. I believe after playing through an SEC schedule, A@M would be a very tough opponent for anyone inlcuding Texas on Thanksgiving every year.
are you...
…talking about this Arkansas?
..or by some mistake this Arkansas?
Either way, I’m not sure which A&M is gonna win in the SEC.
by vy til i die on Jun 17, 2010 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
That puts it in perspective
Aggies are starting to believe their own hype.
mjtig has one valid point and that is if they moved to the SEC on their own while Texas and OU went to the Pac-10 they may have increased their Texas recruiting. Maybe.
I personally think that they would lose enough games their first two years to turn off any future high profile recruits who want to win. Instead, I think it would have opened a pipeline for other SEC schools into Texas and it probably would have hurt the Longhorns in recruiting. Aggies would have taken pleasure in Texas missing on its usual in-state haul, but the recruits not picking Texas would probably pick LSU, AL or FL over the aggies in my opinion. And, the Aggies “weird” environment would not fit for most of the current SEC recruits so the Aggies pool of recruits would not have increased much. Maybe we will find out in five years how this plays out.
In-state haul is the right term
I give Texas credit. From ESPN’s college football recruiting website, for 2010 Texas signed 15 top 150 players (13 from Texas, that is 13 of the 24 total Texas recruits and 6 of the top 10). Oklahoma signed 7 (2 from Texas, this year they already have 5 verbals from Texas and Texas has 7), A@M singned 3 Texas recruits (so far A@M has 0 Texas recurits, Baylor had 1, Okl. St. had 1, Nebraska had 1, Texas Tech, Kansas, Kansas St., Missouri, Colorado, and Iowa St. had 0. That is just last year, but the previous ten years would probably breakdown to similar numbers. But, this is my point for A@M; what they have been doing is not working and before this new deal, Texas had the most money, the best recruits by such a wide margin, and the power to decide for the rest of the league. I don’t have any sources, but did not Oklahoma and the rest of the teams in the Big 12 express that they would go where Texas goes. A@M did not. They have a better financial situation because of this-maybe, Bebee said in his points that no tv deal is worked out and I guess we will find out if the numbers are real at some point-but joining the SEC would give A@M a regular schedule of LSU (7 150 recruits in 2010), Ala (9), Auburn (7), Ole Miss , Arkansas (1), with a permanent east game with whatever team-possibly Florida St. or West Virginia if the SEC were to expand- each year instead of the Big 12 schools. The east schools had a lot of top 150 recruits in 2010 also: Florida (17), Georgia (6), Tenn (6), SC (3). A@M would step up in competition and get better on the field and in recruiting. Good players want to play against good players. I don’t know everything about A@M tradition but from what i’ve seen, a lot of it centers on respecting and honoring the military and what is weird or wrong with that? The 12th man tradition is a good one. I only brought up the keep Austin weird thing because I saw a bumber sticker here in Louisiana and I remeber seeing something about a hippie movement that took place in Austin on tv. Is there an big alternative scene there today? All this had more of a Pac 10 feel to me ( I could be wrong). From what I have seen, most of the Texas fans on blogs favored a move to merge with the Pac 10. The arguments range from academic standards-I won’t get into that- to not a cultural fit in the SEC. Am I wrong about how Texas fans feel? I don’t know everything about Texas tradition, but with a longhorn steer as a mascot, a lot of cowboy hats on fans, and pretty cheerleaders wearing chaps,-all I like very much-ya’ll look like southerners to me. You have a good thing going, but why not come into the SEC and dominate if you can. Even with the revenue sharing-comparable to what you will get in the Big12- and good recruiting by most of its schools, teams have dominated for a while at least. In my opinion, if A@M joined the SEC it would get more Texas recruits-10 in five years is not good and they can do better and this is where they need to get recruits-and the majority of Texas recruits would stay in Texas with a few to LSU, Ala, or Fl which is what has happened the last ten years. This would not change if both A@M and Texas joined the SEC because for the most part, recruits want to stay close to home. As an example, Florida is in the SEC and of their 17 150 players, 9 are from Florida. Geaux Tigers!!
I'm glad I finally noticed that you are an LSU fan
I couldn’t figure out why you keep typing A@M instead of A&M. It is Texas A&M (their original name was Agricultural and Mechanical College of Texas).
The aggies go completey overboard on traditions like a cooky supersitious aunt with ocd. Standing throughout a football game is just the begining and it goes downhill from there. The military stuff is fine, but it is wayyy beyond that and too tiresome to explain more. The top ranking officer on their campus is their mascot—yep, the dog, So, if you think that honors the military somehow, ok, but I suspect most folks from the south would find that pretty damn weird. Look it up sometime you have an hour or two to kill.
Texas is the “west or southwest” we don’t really consider ourselves the South. I have tried to explain this before and I know from LA it seems like Beaumont is so close, but the culture is quite diffrent. We do not have Sweet Tea and we do not have Krystal Hamburgers. I don’t know how else to explain it.
SEC only has two schools in the AAU (American Assoc. of Universities) which are the top 63 schools in the country. All Big 10 schools are member. Texas is a member. So, Texas does not feel that SEC is the appropriate academic environment. To be honest I don’t think Texas feels the SEC is really on the up and up with academics—I would never trust recruiting against Meyers, Saban or Miles. I think the SEC is the power it is because of how they get kids that would never qualify if they weren’t playing in the SEC.
curious
I think the SEC is the power it is because of how they get kids that would never qualify if they weren’t playing in the SEC.
Where does that come from? I’m not saying it’s not true, but I don’t quite get how you come to that conclusion. I don’t pay as much attention to recruiting as some, but as a casual observer, I know the guys my school (UGA) recruits typically have offers from other SEC schools as well as other schools in the region (like GT). I know a scholarship offer to play at Texas doesn’t mean the guy will qualify, but it means that Texas has a pretty good idea that the guy will, right?
Here’s a look at Bama’s prospect list. Those guys have scholarship offers all over the place. Duke’s gonna recruit a guy and offer a scholarship, but he can’t actually qualify anywhere but the SEC?
http://alabama.scout.com/a.z?s=14&p=9&c=4&yr=2011
Again, I’m not saying your statement’s not true. I don’t know. Do you know it’s true?
A lot of it is partial qualifiers.
Here’s a very brief description of them if you’re not familiar.
The SEC allows them, the Big10, Big12 and Pac-10 do not. Texas made that a condition of the creation of the Big 12 because the old Big8 had allowed them. Nebraska threw a fit because partial qualifiers were one of their advantages in recruiting to the middle of nowhere, but they lost that battle, just like they lost every other battle off the field (and every battle but one on the field too) against Texas until they packed their bags and left.
So the advantage the SEC has is that they are allowed to recruit people who wouldn’t qualify at Big 10, Big12 or Pac10 schools, get them into the university system with heavy tutoring and easy classes (which exist everywhere, not just in the SEC of course), and get them qualified. That’s of course not to say that everyone the SEC recruits is a partial qualifier, but having the option allows you to go after certain people that other schools can’t.
Now, you could make an argument that the SEC has this partial qualifier allowance because it needs it due to its geography, and I’m sympathetic to that argument. The public school system in the deep south is horrendous and it would be reasonable to say that it’s an unfair disadvantage to a southern kid to not let him go play ball for a southern university (at least partially) because he went to a southern high school. And if recruiting were still regional in nature for the big-time programs, then I might agree with this sentiment as it applies to the universities. But why should Florida (for example) be able to recruit all over the country just like every other big school, but then also be able to accept partial qualifiers?
You have to admit that, even if sparingly used, it’s an advantage to have that tool.
by billyzane on Jun 17, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
What he said
bz had me covered-thanks.
I think the other factor that is something which gives OU and some SEC schools an advantage over Texas is that getting a kid accepted academically is merely step 1. You have to keep them enrolled and progressing toward a degree also. Texas lost a few kids last year that didn’t make enough progress toward their degree. We have no super easy degree plans, so our coaches have to be careful who we offer and accept into the school because it is a waste of a schollie if they get in and have flunked out by their junior year. OU has some much easier degree plans in the physical ed. department so they can take a kid like Jermie Calhoun who is a great talent but could not have likely stayed enrolled at Texas even if he could qualify.
This I hear all the time
Don’t forget our primary in-state rival is a school where every student has to take calculus, but we still recruit the same kids. And I think GT has a much better argument about what it takes to progress toward a degree than UT, given scopes of the institutions. But it’s all relative. Tech also has one of the biggest admission-standards gaps in the country between the general student body and the scholarship athletes.
To me, though, it’s not so much whether there are easy majors. It’s the resources devotes to athletes (dedicated facilities, tutors, etc.) to help them academically that seems a bit strange. If I’d had that kind of attention, I’d have graduated summa cum laude. But nobody cared whether or not I went to class.
In a perfect world (maybe), scholarship athletes would be admitted to universities using the same academic criteria as any other incoming freshman. I am not quite prepared, however, to cede all future SEC championships to LSU and the Mississippi schools.
I do agree about partial qualifiers, though, and as bz said, it’s an advantage even if sparingly used. I’d just as soon do away with them division-wide. The SEC actually had a rule prohibiting them several years ago, then quietly carved out exceptions. I think there’s now a limit of 2 for football.
I am not quite prepared, however, to cede all future SEC championships to LSU and the Mississippi schools.
South Carolina and the Alabama schools would be in the mix as well.
by Dr. Lou's Psychiatrist on Jun 17, 2010 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Michigan turned down Dorsey
He was qualified by NCAA standards (2.6 gpa, 18 act) and Michigan stood by its standards. It might hurt them on the field but I respect them for stressing how important academics are to them and then backing it up. As for Georgia, which is in the SEC-that has such a terrible reputation-I remember seeing several of their players majoring in housing when introduced on my television screen during a game last year or the year before-I can’t remember. What classes do you take for that degree? You are not separate in this issue from other SEC schools including LSU. People who stress academics should live up to it (Standford, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Michigan-in that example above at least-etc.). The more a school stresses academics without following through, the more hypocritical the school looks.
Georgia
Georgia’s got easy majors, yes. I don’t dispute that. (Here are the degree requirements for a housing major, btw. And based on the “job titles of recent graduates” description, it looks to me like to TV-movie version of the real estate major in the business school, which is the 3rd best in the country.) What’s a major in “youth and communication studies” or “physical culture and sport” at Texas?
My point re LSU and the Mississippi schools was that it’s much easier to get into those schools in the first place than it is to get into Georgia. When I was in school, I think I had no classes at all with any football players. I’m not claiming my alma mater is a paragon of academic virtue when it comes to scholarship athletes, by the way. But regarding general academics beyond the SEC’s position on partial qualifiers (which I’ve conceded is a clear and valid point), I don’t see that anyone has any basis for comparing the rigors of academic programs between any two schools.
Dammit.
I should have acted all incensed and said that I majored in housing. (My undergraduate majors, philosophy and French, were arguably more useless.) Anyway, thanks for sharing the thoughts.
It's probably better that you didn't
By the way you write and what you write, you in a college classroom with a lot of football players would probably look like something out of a Woody Allen comedy-similar to scenes from Bananas or Take the Money and Run. Both very good and funny movies if you have not seen them. You seem to be very intelligent-though my perception is that the average dawg fan going crazy between the hedges is not a philosophy/french major-and I only brought up the housing major-it did look like an easy made up major for athletes when I saw it during that game(I could be wrong)-because you took a swipe at LSU. I’m an LSU fan and I admit it was reactionary. I admit getting into Georgia is tougher than getting into LSU-maybe the gap you suggest(incoming freshman at LSU need a 3.0 gpa, sat 1030, act 22. Georgia website did not have solid minimum numbers but gave an 2 examples: a student with a 4.0 and 1000 or below on sat may be omitted whereas a student with a 3.0 and 1400 on sat may not) is not as immense. After all the realignment talk started, I began looking a different blogs for more information-mostly about Texas and Texas A&M. On 12th man, A&M-an AAU member also-their fans wanted badly to become a member of the SEC where most Texas fans did not. I came to BON to see what Texas fan’s feelings were on this subject firsthand. It seems they wanted to merge with the Pac 10 or stay put and not join the SEC with a major reason being the academic environment. I’m a football fan and think Texas and Texas A&M would fit fine in the SEC both culturally and academically. There is a lot of academic talk mixed in with the main subject:football. At least the main subject I want to talk about. There are several schools in major football conferences today that value academics first and will not compromise allowing student athletes in so they can win football games. Northwestern-0 espn 150 recruits the last 5 years, but very competitive on the field going 8-5 last year-, Standford-7 espn 150 recruits the last 5 years-, Vanderbilt-0 and struggling-, Duke-0 and struggling- as examples covering the major conferences. From what I’ve seen on their website Georgia’s standards are high and should be a AAU member, but the fans do not push it-except your good natured jibe of course-and do not want to leave the bad academic environment of the SEC for The ACC. Texas is rated very high-as high as 29 in the pba top American colleges and universities-on most polls of best American universities. The SEC is considered by many not to be on the up and up and have “special admissions programs” to get a lot of their players. But, again the espn article below suggest that this is widespread in all conferences, “in all 77 of the 92 fbs schools that provided special information to the ap used special admittance waivers to land athletes.” The pac 10 school Oregon was mentioned as was G Tech. Texas did not report any special waivers in the report but “uses holistic standards that consider each applicant individually rather than relying on min test scores and grade point avg.” Again they have had top recruiting classes for a while now. My point is if academics is that important-getting into the top twenty of those academic polls with no top five recruiting classes and with some schools having no football team at all-, than go all the way with it and do not compromise your standards. Don’t wait for a perfect day.
corrections
In the example for Georgia’s freshman requirements in parenthesis. the part needing correction should read a student with a 4.0 gpa and 1000 or below on sat may be “admitted” whereas a student with a 3.0 gpa and 1400 on sat may not. It did not make sense when I read it now. Thanks
That's the thing (or a thing)
In this kind of forum, amid sincere discussions, swipes are taken, which distract. The forum seems to demand it, and we end up arguing points we didn’t really mean to raise. And for what it’s worth, 26 years ago when I prepared to enroll at UGA, the admission standards were nothing like they are now, and we were in the middle of the most embarrassing era in our athletics/academics history.
Fair enough
I was not interested in blogs before the realignment news came on so suddenly. I found myself scrambling for information and the sb sites offered some inklings at least before any real news broke. I sat through an Introduction to Fiction class with a football player twenty years ago at LSU for what its worth, but good engineers, good doctors, good nurses, and good teachers have received their respective degrees from LSU. I personally know a few from each group. Your school has high entrance standards and if Nebraska and Kansas are AAU members along with UCLA and the Ivy League schools, then, it seems Georgia should be included in that group. Nothing to be embarrassed about in either case in my opinion. It seems most schools in major conferences are lowering their standards to compete on the football field, so if you do feel embarrassed about this issue, you should not be alone. The educational elites are in New England-Standford, Cal Berkley, Duke, Vanderbilt, Northwestern is included among a few others from fbs conferences-and those schools respectively dropped their pursuit of college football dominance for the pursuit of excellence in education around eighty years ago. From SI vault site, The Univ. of Chicago, a big 10 power in 1939, dropped football because “it hampered the universities efforts to become the kind of institution it aspired to be. The university should devote itself to education, research, and scholarship.” for example. I say, leave them with their inflated pride. But now that it has been five days and the Big 12 seems that it will stay intact-let’s give it one more minute-I’ve got it all out; fineto. I look forward to my Tigers, and my Who Dats. Peace to the BON and my SEC brother. Goodbye for now.
So it is both culture and academics then
I was just curious because I did not know a lot about Austin. Like I said, I was going with what I have seen-your gameday traditions- and read. Even if you are not southerners-you have to like hamburgers, beer, tailgaiting, ect. though-are poeple in Austin more like poeple in Phoenix, L.A., Seattle, or Portland than like poeple in Baton Rouge, New Orleans, or Atlanta? Do a lot of Texas fans see themselves as that different from the south and more like Arizona or California? As for the academics, from an ap espn article Exemptions benefit athletes, "An Associated Press review of admissions data submitted to the NCAA by most of the 120 schools in college football’s top tier shows that athletes enjoy strikingly better odds of having admission requirements bent on their behalf.
The notion that college athletes’ talents give them a leg up in the admissions game isn’t a surprise. But in what NCAA officials called the most extensive review to date, the AP found the practice is widespread and can be found in every major conference.
The review identified at least 27 schools where athletes were at least 10 times more likely to benefit from special admission programs than students in the general population.
The NCAA defines special admissions programs as those designed for students who don’t meet “standard or normal entrance requirements.” The NCAA says such exceptions are fine as long as schools offer the same opportunities to everyone.
That group includes 2009 Bowl Championship Series teams Oregon, Georgia Tech and Alabama, which is playing Texas for the national title Jan. 7.
At Alabama, 19 football players got in as part of a special admissions program from 2004 to 2006, the most recent years available in the NCAA report. The school tightened its standards for “special admits” in both 2004 and 2007, but from 2004 through 2006, Crimson Tide athletes were still more than 43 times more likely to benefit from such exemptions.
Alabama coach Nick Saban offered no apologies.
“Some people have ability and they have work ethic and really never get an opportunity,” he said. “I am really pleased and happy with the job that we do and how we manage our students here, and the responsibility and accountability they have toward academics and the success that they’ve had in academics.”
The NCAA defines special admissions programs as those designed for students who don’t meet “standard or normal entrance requirements.” The NCAA says such exceptions are fine as long as schools offer the same opportunities to everyone from dancers, French horn players and under-represented minorities as they do to fleet-footed wide receivers and 300-pound offensive linemen.
Texas was one of seven schools that reported no use of special admissions, instead describing “holistic” standards that consider each applicant individually rather than relying on minimum test scores and grade-point averages.
But the school also acknowledged in its NCAA report that athletic recruits overall are less prepared. At Texas, the average SAT score for a freshman football player from 2003 to 2005 was 945 — or 320 points lower than the typical first-year student’s score on the entrance exam.
School officials did not make coach Mack Brown or athletic director DeLoss Dodds available to comment.
In all, 77 of the 92 Football Bowl Subdivision schools that provided information to the AP reported using special admissions waivers to land athletes and other students with particular talents. The AP spent three months obtaining and reviewing the reports through state public records laws.
The usual SEC supspect is there but we are to expect this right. Texas is mentioned also thought. Texas has been in the top ten in recruiting for a while now and how many of those recruits met the requirements for all incoming freshman at Texas? If you want to be like Standford, Vanderbilt, or Northwestern-all in the top twenty in most polls on best american universities, Texas is rated high also, do not budge on your standards. Just remember Princeton Univ. has 28 national championships in football with the last coming in 1935. I’ve seen there stadium today and it looks like Olympia Stadium here in Baton Rouge where Catholic High School plays a lot of their games. So, be careful what you ask for. I like “holistic standards that consider each applicant individually rather than relying on minimum test scores and grade point avg.”
links are cool--saves a lot of space on the post
I’m glad you are over here and curious about Texas football. You will have to come to Austin and check out a game. They are great.
But, I will be the first to admit that Texas and no Big xii team and nobody tailgates like the SEC. You guys rock that hard. I was at the 1998 Bama vs. LSU game in Baton Rouge and ate and drank at tailgates all day—absolutely fantastic. (tOSU has a fair amount of tailgating, but nothing like SEC).
On Texas being more Southern or West Coast I am going to defer to other folks. I’m a transplanted mid-westerner but I have been here for 30 years and love it in Houston. We go to New Orleans a few times a year, and I go to B’ham to visit the in-laws so I know the south.
Matthew McConaughey is at most of our games and he pretty much is a good person to describe the types of folks in Austin. He is just a bit wealthier, better looking and more famous.
As far as tailgating,
The Pennsylvania State University belongs in the conversation. It is a longstanding tradition born of necessity. The campus was placed in the geographic center of the state. State College only exists for and because of the university. Accordingly, nearly everyone comes from some distance to attend games. Check it out if you ever get a chance. You’ll plenty of the typical stuff. You’ll also see things like guys from South Philly with trailer mounted pizza ovens.
by Dr. Lou's Psychiatrist on Jun 17, 2010 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions
De niro "Have a Rolling Rock, its the best around"
One of the best, but I would need to drink the whole twelve pack along with a lot of the pizza and whatever else is around with temperatures as low as they are in November. It must get in the forties or thirties at night. Ohio St. vs Penn St. was a great game the last two years which is good with Michigan down. Good to hear great tailgating going on up there and that you play night games with a lot of other big ten games starting at 11 in the morning. It sucks when LSU gets stuck in some morning game due to television.
Fair enough-good information
I have learned more about Texas and Texas A&M with all this big 12 breakup talk. I started looking at the LSU blog which spilled over to the A&M blog which landed me here. If the Big 12 goes through another crises, I hope Texas and A&M end up in the SEC west. If you end up in the Pac 10 or Big 10, then, I think you could dominate in those conferences in football much like you have in the Big 12. Texas recruits will primarily go to Texas and A&M if in SEC. I’ll need to visit Austin-I looked it up, it is a lot bigger than New Orleans-someday. If a lot of the poeple are like McConaughey-seems pretty easy going-that sounds good to me. Good luck this season. I’m a little worried about my Tigers-d line, quarterback-but we have a lot of talent overall.
After spending four years in Austin and three years in New Orleans
I’ll say there are certainly similarities, particularly if you’re looking, but I’d advise against expecting many obvious comparators. Enjoy each for what it is.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Jun 17, 2010 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Guess he's lucky
This kinda stuff is all about your sources. CB had em, no one else did apparently… you have to give CB credit!
by Travis Doolittle on Jun 17, 2010 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Spin control
So now we get to see UT’s spin as to why negotiations with the Pac 10 broke down.
The early Pac 10 spin has been that Texas had been on board with giving up its media rights for a Pac Ten Network but, at the last second, Texas tried to pull a fast one and insisted that it had to retain local media right so that it could launch Bevo TV. (“Bevo TV” is what the Longhorn Sports Network will be called, by the way. I learned that yesterday in a very convoluted but very believable way.)
Chip’s article fails to explain whether that is accurate. I’m going to infer from the silence on this issue from Belmont’s mouthpiece that it is. Reasonable minds can differ.
Now we see the Longhorn spin. Already unsure about being the fall guys for the break-up of the conference, it was the Pac 10 which tried to pull a fast one by seeking to substitute Kansas for Oklahoma State, despite UT’s assurances to a $100 million donor Oklahoma State that the Cowboys would be included.
Interesting…
You don't understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender.
Spin away
+1
I think Time Warner is going to job me out of Bevo TV though just like I cannot get ESPN 3.
ESPN3 just signed a deal with Microsoft. You’ll be able to get it on Xbox 360 if you have Xbox Live. Although I’m not sure if the ISP restrictions would still be in play.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61-2bUY8Ijg
it looks pretty sweet.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
I am so freaking stoked about this
Never ask a man if he's from Texas. If he is, he'll tell you soon enough. If he's not, don't embarrass him.
unrelated to the current topic, but... uhh... do I know you?
Based on your avatar and user name, I believe you may be dating a friend of mine who may or may not own a chocolate lab named after a neighborhood in San Francisco. (No, not Castro or Marina.) I would normally try and nail this down a little more before I came out and asked, but I don’t have time to do the necessary Internet stalking right now.
I'm not sober.
awesome, +1
"I live in the tower with Coach Brown." -Bevo
by run Bevo run on Jun 18, 2010 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think so
My boyfriend has never been to San Franscisco, and neither have I – I’m not even familiar with either of those neighborhoods. We own two beagles together. Do I have a doppelganger in SF somewhere?
Never ask a man if he's from Texas. If he is, he'll tell you soon enough. If he's not, don't embarrass him.
And I'm jealous
I wish I was not sober right now.
Never ask a man if he's from Texas. If he is, he'll tell you soon enough. If he's not, don't embarrass him.
Not to interfere into a perfectly innocent stalking situation, but when I was at UT I had a doppleganger
All sorts of people on campus would say “hi Scott” to me and when I looked puzzled they would realize I wasn’t this doppleganger guy named “Scott.” I actually tried to hunt him out, but never could find him. Annoyed the heck out of me. Maybe you will see your doppleganger at a UT game.
And I too wish I was not sober right now either.
Dopplegangers
I my younger days, I’m told that I looked a lot like one of the Manson killers. Even worse, his name was almost the same as mine. Got some strange looks.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
My mistake.
The girl I’m thinking of lives in Austin, so your doppelganger may be closer than you think.
I'm not sober.
Marginally
I live in Indiana
Never ask a man if he's from Texas. If he is, he'll tell you soon enough. If he's not, don't embarrass him.
To Complement your Spin Point
30-40 Million in Penalties?
Brown reports that Nebraska and Colorado’s buy out fees will total in the 30-40 million range. I find this hard to believe, as nearly every other report has Colorado’s penalty around 10 million. Although I would expect Nebraska to have a slightly higher penalty (as they collect more revenue), I am assuming this penalty isn’t double or triple that of Colorado. Therefore, I am skeptical Texas/OU/A&M will split 30-40 million.
2 years of revenues from each
They each get $7- $10 million per year so the figures seems reasonable. Payment for the 2010 is guaranteed as the conference will just withhold each schools respective portion. Will be interesting to see if/when/how the amounts for 2009, that have already been paid to each school out, are collected. Colorado reportedly doesn’t have that kind of excess cash.
Also intriguing is putting Colorado as a "Loser" in this deal
A.) If the buyout penalties are indeed $30-$40M, then CU is in a rut. But if it won’t be (and every other source doesn’t have it that high – in fact, the penalty is not even a guaranteed thing), and it’s closer to $10M… less bad.
B.) More importantly, so many CU fans view them moving to the Pac 10 and getting away from the Texas machine as a great thing. This is where Chip Brown fails at objectivity.
I think he was looking at it from a revenue standpoint, not from a "our fans prefer X conference" standpoint.
by Texas Wahoo on Jun 16, 2010 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
But he was only taking the Buyout Penalty into account
CU will be apart of a new Pac-10 TV deal that may very well pay them as much, or more, than the “Other 7” schools in the Big 12. There’s more to the changes than simply the immediacy of penalties, especially if “Winners” are being categorized because of TV revenue that hasn’t actually been accrued yet.
Interesting take on the Texas/Pac-10 negotiations.
And Scott and Weiberg made one critical mistake in the courtship of the Big 12… they wanted to substitute Kansas for Oklahoma State late in the process, according to multiple sources in the Big 12.
Texas was really starting to feel queasy now, sources said. UT officials knew deep down Texas A&M wasn’t coming to the Pac-10, despite Bill Byrne’s assurances, according to sources. And now Scott and Weiberg were looking to dump Oklahoma State in favor of Kansas. If A&M was a no-show, the Pac-10 would add Utah. Scott was looking to add new TV markets, not stick to the deal that was agreed upon a few days earlier.
According to sources who talked to me Tuesday (two days after the fact), Dodds and Plonsky couldn’t stop thinking about all the negatives. And now they were dealing with a wheeler-dealer Pac-10 commissioner who wanted to sub out Boone Pickens’ Cowboys for the chance to grab new households in Kansas, Missouri and middle America.
Dodds had given Oklahoma State his word they would be part of the group headed west. Now, the Pac-10 wanted to do some late rearranging. Dodds didn’t feel good about it, sources said Tuesday. Now, Dodds and Plonsky had to convince Powers that the Beebe Plan was the best plan.
So essentially, Chip Brown is blaming this on the PAC-10 trying to change the deal and Dodds not wanting to go back on his word to OK ST that they would be included.
Then you have the picture painted by Joe Shad and Pete Thamel
[Pac-10 Commissioner] Larry Scott believed he had a deal with Texas.
- Joe Shad
Source confirms that Texas asked to be able to keep own local TV and wanted “extra sweetner” financially from revenue sharing at 11th hour.
Sorry if unclear. Texas made those demands to the Pac-10 at 11th hour, ending the talks. Hence, Texas greed keeps B12 alive. How quaint.
- Pete Thamel
Those are two fairly distinct portraits of how things went down. Hard to say how accurate either one is, and the truth may lie somewhere inbetween. If I had to guess, the OK St-Kansas swap may have been an issue, but keeping the rivalry with A&M and the $ from the Beebe plan were by far the more important motives for Texas. UT decided to agree to the Beebe plan unless the PAC-10 could make them an offer they couldn’t refuse.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
the late Pac-10 rearranging doesn't seem to make sense in the timeline
1) aT was non-committal with Scott/Weiberg, and the Pac-10 took that as a No.
2) THEN, Scott/Weiberg tried to substitute KU for OkSU? but, they HAD A SPOT OPEN with aTm’s reluctance. they did not need to substitute one for the other, there was a spot available.
It only makes sense if you believe that the Pac-10 was dead set on adding Utah. As a close follower from the PacX perspective, I simply do not believe this. Utah has been the option of last resort for the Pac-10. As of today, I still don’t believe that Utah has received an invitation. Scott would have jumped at the chance to keep OkSU and replace aTm with KU leaving Utah out, IMO.
So, I tend to believe the Thamel theory.
Very solid reporting throughout by Chip
I think the definitive tale is yet to be told. What’s not recounted here is what happened in the Texas Governor’s office and state house. But by this take, two key players (ABC/ESPN and UT) folded their hands to protect the rest of their stack while A&M, with a smile, raked in the pot.
Hat's off to A&M
They played a good bluff and I’m glad they did.
DeLoss Dodds flat out denied the allegations that Texas, OU and A&M are splitting the windfall from NU and CU. I remember seeing this in the press conference. He said it will be distributed per the Big XII regulations already in place to all the teams. He said he has no idea where that rumor is coming from and that it was not true. But now Chip again reported it and suggests that it was a key factor. I don’t know what is true about it, but I find it hard to believe, and I hope, that we would not demand extra from the other conference teams. It should be divided per the prior rules in place.
Powers too
Quotes I have seen from Bill Powers seem to deny that distribution of buyout monies amoungst UT/A&M/OU. Powers also suggests that there were no formal agreements to keep the Big 12 intact, rather he’s taking the other university presidents at their word. That would lead me to believe they have not had enough time to negotiate such an agreement where UT/A&M/OU would get the lionshare of the buyout dollars. I also would question if any such agreement to distribute the buyouts funds to the big three comes with any strings attached. I would imagine the league office will distribute the funds to each of the remaining 10 institutions per the previously established agreement.
It's a Horns' world. Even Aggies play hoops with a burnt orange ball.
It might have been Powers that I saw too...I'm getting foggy now but I'm sure of the statement
I sure hope that we have Mizzou sign on the dotted line. Everyone needs to agree to whopper penalties since we (the 4 Pac 10 bound teams) stuck our necks on the line to keep this boat afloat. I haven’t heard any word on what the commitment it, but I would think that Mizzou made one since they were partly responsible for starting this drama.
Appears we didn't extort the penalty money--it was offered as a sacrificial gift
KU’s AD Perkins explains how the five teams on the outs figured out a “business plan” to entice the big players to stay. Very interesting how it is described. This story seems very credible. Technically Powers is telling the truth, but in spirit it seems we are promised the money in the long term as a guarantee.
Story also suggests that NU is trying to get out of the penalty clause by claiming it is for damages and there are no damages. What a bunch of losers. Hope we cream the corn.
Bevo TV financials
Also buried in the article is this:
And that total could scale if the Longhorn Network was a success and surpassed its consultants early projections of $3 million to $5 million per year.
Is that the first we’ve seen the projected profit of Bevo TV? And if so . . . is that it? That’s lower than I would have projected in even a worst-case scenario for projections making it worthwhile to go it alone on the network side.
You don't understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender.
That's what I had seen reported originally when this deal was first discussed.
The Big Ten Network is expected to distribute 6.5 million per school this year, and it’s been out there a lot longer. I would also expect the Fox deal to lower its value somewhat because very few Texas games are going to fall all the way down to the Longhorn Network. I think it will take time to really get a network off the ground.
by Texas Wahoo on Jun 16, 2010 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Have you seen . . .
. . . any long-term projections on what Bevo TV could net a few years down the road after getting off the ground?
You don't understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender.
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 16, 2010 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Just to be clear, the Bevo TV revenue
is on top of all of the other ESPN/ABC, Fox, etc. revenues. It will mainly be used to show non-revenue sports and lower-tiered football and basketball games that otherwise may have only been available PPV.
I believe UF has the Gator Network and they reap an extra $10 million a year from it. No idea how long it has been in existence.
Not sure about the 3-5 mil
But I think I read that the Big Ten network generates 75 cents per subscriber. Maybe the figure was based on the projected subscriber base for a Longhorn Network at a similar rate? Seems pretty low though, as I would imagine it would be carried pretty much throughout Texas at the least.
TCU to the B12?
that seems to be a rumor going around Ft Worth among the TCU kids. email string passing the rounds that Beebe was seen at Colonial CC this morning with TCU coaches and officials.
anyone hear that one?
What do they add
Having Texas and Okie Schools in the conference DFW is locked in. Adding TCU does nothing to replace the holes left buy NU and CU
Keeps the championship game, which is a part of the current ABC/eSECpn contract
Maybe Beebe promised ABC to try to add 2 new schools? Could just be a rumor, or they may have met to discuss future opportunities for TCU.
It seemed clear to me...
…that no more schools will be added. Keep dreamin’, TCU.
You don't understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender.
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 16, 2010 2:07 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Who will get Bevo TV?
I live in CA and my provider is Comcast will I get Bevo TV or is basically for people in the Southwest.
Not there yet
No bridge to cross on this yet, but I wouldn’t fret over not seeing Texas on TV. I’m sure the Horns’ seed will be spread as widely as possible. (yes, I just went there)
by Infield Elephant on Jun 16, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
How are you going to sustain this channel?
Where will the programing come from? I can understand the football season but how about the regular seasons? I find it difficult to believe that this concept is sustainable in the long run if tu runs it by itself.
Good point, I'll just hit the cancel button.
Other Receiving Votes: Oklahoma
by pleaseplaykindle on Jun 16, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Im pretty sure it will work out Texas isn't 1 dimensional when it comes to there sporting programs
Out here in CA I get the BYU Channel. They show everything about there college aswell as there sporting programs
Yeah, we're terrible at running things
Every business venture Texas undertakes has been run into the ground, and DeLoss Dodds is managing a line of discount crackhouses to make ends meet.
Never ask a man if he's from Texas. If he is, he'll tell you soon enough. If he's not, don't embarrass him.
by LonghornEm on Jun 16, 2010 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
It will be beamed into the maroon and white Whataburger in College Station
"I've always been an admirer of Texas' clock management. Now, I am completely sold." -- Les Miles
by Distributor of the Football on Jun 16, 2010 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Nebraska won't pay buy out
The news is that Nebraska says it won’t pay any buy out penalty to the Big XII because the chancellor thinks no damage was done to the conference. Looks like we have another lawsuit coming up. If Nebraska gets away without paying, then it sets a bad precedent.
Paging Joe Jamail
How fun for the Big XII to sue the Cornhuskers!! The liquidated damages are set in the beginning to avoid the need to prove the actual damages later.
If that is their position let’s get an injunction and stop them from leaving. LOL….oh wait—we wanted them to go.
Random thought . . .
. . . now that we know T. Boone gave us $100M a couple of years back:
Why not show our appreciation by naming the field after him instead? :)
You don't understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender.
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 16, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Ha! nt you
"I live in the tower with Coach Brown." -Bevo
by run Bevo run on Jun 18, 2010 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions
On January 22, 2007, Pickens donated $5 million to The University of Texas at Dallas to fund educational and research initiatives in the area of brain science. Part of the donation is funding the “T. Boone Pickens Distinguished Chair in Clinical Brain Science”, that is held by Dr. Denise C. Park who heads The Center for Vital Longevity at the University of Dallas at Texas.
On May 16, 2007, Pickens donated $100 million to two University of Texas health care institutions. The gifts were donated to the UT Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas and The University of Texas M. D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston. The donations are required to grow to $1 billion within twenty-five years before they can be disbursed by the recipient institutions
TCU WILL NEVER BE IN THE BIG 12
The ten remaining schools all recruit Texas for football and WILL NOT allow TCU to be validated on a BCS level, allowing the Frogs to compete for even more recruits.
Why does the thought of Nebraska handing over . . .
. . . 15-18 million dollars to UT make me smile?
Thanks for the memories, Big Red (9-1 counting this year’s ass kicking in Lincoln). Oh, and for the moolah, too.
Y’all come back real soon now, hear?
+1 ... as in 13-12 ... as in one extra second
"I've always been an admirer of Texas' clock management. Now, I am completely sold." -- Les Miles
by Distributor of the Football on Jun 16, 2010 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions
PAC 10 offer to Utah
This may have already been reported on BON 6 times, but I just read that the PAC 10- has just extended an invitation to Utah. Looks like the Big 12 Minus 2 is a day late and a dollar short again on one of the few attractive possible additions out there.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
I think it's a mistake
I don’t think Utah would help the Big 12 now, we’re better off at 10.
I don’t know if it’s going to help the Pac-10 either, they might have ended up pretty badly in this whole mess.
I think the Pac 10 had to invite Utah to get the championship game as an attempt to make up for their already inviting Utah.
I don’t think either addition will increase their revenues.
That...
and a little “Look at us, we’re expanding”
by Infield Elephant on Jun 16, 2010 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
It's the Duodecimal system, don't ya know
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
ESPN angle under-reported
The one angle I have not heard much about is the TV deal at the final hour. Beebe getting ESPN/ABC to guaruntee money to the conference even though big name Nebraska and Denver Market Colorado had left the conference AND there would be no conference championship game to broadcast is the craziest, most impactful, and least talked about aspect of this whole deal.
This is the part of Chip’s article I find most intriguing. If it is true, it was probably the biggest impact ESPN has had on college athletics and literally no one is talking about it.
Lost in talks of A&M’s threat to go to the SEC, The uneven distribution of money, the Bevo Network, and the fines to be paid by the previously mentioned deserters, is the fact that ESPN guarunteed this money to the depleted, reportedly “Dying”, Big 12 Lite Conference – A conference that will be one of the 2 weakest BCS conferences in the country.
This guaruntee is the only reason Beebe HAD a plan B to come to the table with for Texas to consider. And the only reason that makes any sense for ESPN/ABC to do this is to keep the PAC 16 from going to Fox and dominating the TV sets of half the country.
Looks like it wasn’t just the schools looking out for themselves and their own self interests.
"A lot of people look for the easy way to do anything, in swimming there is no easy way." - Eddie Reese
Agreed.
ESPN was scared of losing half of the entire country (including the TX/OU and TX/A&M games) to Fox and therefore upped the ante. That probably wasn’t the main force behind everything, but, at least per Chip Brown’s retelling of the story, it presented Texas with a viable Plan B as the Pac 10 talks started to fizzle.
Question
At what point do you think we (Texas, the Big 12, whoever) knew that this viable Plan B of a “pay for 12, get 10” deal was out there?
You don't understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender.
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 16, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Not directed to me
but I heard Beebe mention it on his teleconference. He said it was pretty much the day prior to the announcement of the Big XII remaining that he knew what we was going to do. Listen here.
But I have to imagine Texas, etc had thought of it as soon as CU/NU left.
by Infield Elephant on Jun 16, 2010 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I legitimately believe people who say it was last minute.
It makes sense.
Fox has a vested interest in the BCS surviving, which it wasn’t likely to do with a bunch of superconferences.
ESPN had a vested interest in keeping Texas/OU out of the Pac10.
But none of that became actionable for them until it appeared that the Big12 was about to crumble.
I agree...
…which makes the “evil genius” tag some seem to be giving Texas for supposedly manipulating this the way they’re perceiving a bit misleading.
Seems to me that the “evil genius” line of thinking would make more sense that Texas had this offer in its hip pocket the whole time rather than having it fall out of the sky at the last moment.
You don't understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender.
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 16, 2010 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions
You could still say that Texas was manipulating ESPN/Fox to get this deal, though.
I don’t believe it, but it’s not an unreasonable speculation. And I must say I prefer Evil Genius to Evil Lucky Person.
I think Chip Brown's timeline at least is pretty accurate
When it became clear over the weekend that A&M wasn’t going to play ball then the new TV contract was able to overcome the cost of us all not sticking together. I also think the political pressures (from the state legislature and from the likely electoral cost to Perry) started to add up over the weekend. The Pac-10s mistake was giving everyone a weekend to think, then things fell apart IMO.
ESPN
Wasn’t it ESPN that made us move the game off of Thanksgiving Day?
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
As I remember it
When A&M was on probation in late 80’s, early 90’s, they could not be on tv. One year we played Baylor on Thanksgiving, but it wasn’t really the ratings boon that the A&M game was. ABC ended up moving another rivalry game to that time slot and the A&M game was moved to day after Thansksiving in order to keep it a national game.
So the driving force behind it moving was really A&M’s probation.
1994
A&M was moved up to mid-season and Baylor was moved to Thanksgiving (weekend or day?).
In 1995, even though A&M was no longer on probation, the game was moved to the weekend after Thanksgiving, and we played Baylor on Thanksgiving night instead.
You don't understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender.
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 17, 2010 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
"A conference that will be one of the 2 weakest BCS conferences in the country."
I don’t see how you could say this with any certainty. I think the Big XII is still better than the Big East, Pac 10. I’m not sure about the ACC, because they’re clearly deeper, but weaker on top.
Also
this is based on the most current football season. Two years ago, I’d say it was different (B12 being considerably stronger/deeper).
by Infield Elephant on Jun 16, 2010 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Ambiguous
I wasn’t just talking about football. From ESPN’s perspective “Weakest” means a combination of football (for national appeal) and TV markets. And I think when you lose Nebraska with its national name brand (albeit not as hefty as in the 90’s) and Colorado with….. well, basically the Denver TV market, AND you take away a conference title game to broadcast…….. from a TV standpoint this will have to be one of the 2 wekest in the country doesn’t it?
The only reason I didn’t say the weakest is beacause of Texas vs OU which by the way, should have Gameday there every year now if ESPN wants to protect this investment.
"A lot of people look for the easy way to do anything, in swimming there is no easy way." - Eddie Reese
Another way to look at the ESPN issue
From a thread at TexAgs. Anonymously sourced, per message board custom, so take with the usual bottle of salt, but it;s an interesting idea. No idea if it would have had any legal legs. (Hey, I’m a lawyer. I never said I was a good one!)
According to a well-placed source I work with at ABC/ESPN in NY…
The networks not only were not going to cough up any more money to the SEC when we joined (ESPN/ABC, CBS, Jefferson Pilot), they were also ready to draw swords with the Big XII schools that were leaving to recover ALL lost revenue from the conference break up…They specifically were going to target Texas and OU – the two biggest draws for TV.
A&M might have been spared some because they were going to an ESPN conference, but it would not have been easy…
You don't understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender.
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 16, 2010 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I really hate ESPN
If we were to get attacked for leaving and no one else that is BS. I hope we get away from the ESPN monster in a few years.
Considering what we know (from Chip Brown)...
and this source, it is conceivable there is even more we don’t know. I threw some wild ideas out the other day, but this could have some legs too. Could you imagine all of this in court? This would have been the start of the Apocalypse for college sports. I don’t think any side wanted to see the outcome if they lost or what the future would hold. All sides backed down and gave concessions. When the ABC/ESPN is up (2016?), we could see realignment start back up when the Big (XII-II) does not get the money we are getting now. I cannot wait for Chip to write the book on this.
We're Texas...and you're NOT
No way in hell
UT and OU would not face ESPN in court. I’m not saying the threat couldn’t have been made (through a 3rd party), but UT,OU and the Pac16 would have a lot of clout and it would be bad for business for ESPN documents to be splattered in court fighting the Top college revenue producer with the biggest fan support.
Sorry, but I have to say it...
it’s spelled “guarantee”. You kept misspelling it, so it was bothering me.
by goingforthecorner on Jun 16, 2010 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks
Thats what happens when you get a math degree.
"A lot of people look for the easy way to do anything, in swimming there is no easy way." - Eddie Reese
Man,
I just looked back and that is terrible!
"A lot of people look for the easy way to do anything, in swimming there is no easy way." - Eddie Reese
it wasn't all that bad...
until you bolded it…
ESPN headlines yesterday said it all ...
“Texas Saves the Big 12” … So, apparently, Texas played ball after ESPN/ABC came up with the cash. We are good guys and they keep the contract. Realignment is coming to a conference near you in 2017, when the ESPN/ABC contract … and the Fox one (after it is extended through 2016) expire.
"I've always been an admirer of Texas' clock management. Now, I am completely sold." -- Les Miles
by Distributor of the Football on Jun 16, 2010 11:39 PM CDT reply actions
Chip's account certainly is self-serving.
And what a nice job of cleaning up (constructing?) the narrative flow. Is he selling the movie rights and when does it hit the big screen?
by Dr. Lou's Psychiatrist on Jun 17, 2010 10:29 AM CDT reply actions
Cal's Golden Blogs
- has a piece on Chip’s reporting here. I don’t want to bring us down, but while I think their take is a bit slanted and maybe conspiratorial, I try to look at all sides. Good write-up from the more popular perspective, and I can see where they’re coming from on some of it.
Some nuggets:
I’m not really annoyed at Brown himself for this congratulatory report; he’s a pawn in this game, reporting what he hears from sources who have plenty of reasons to spin their own version of the truth.
If Texas and their athletic director DeLoss Dodds was really trying to look for the best possible situation, and if they knew they were getting this great deal from Beebe and ABC/ESPN, AND they knew that it would be better than the total revenue they could possibly get from the expanded Pac-10 conference, then why not go all the way and ask for the impossible?
Brown has done a fine job reporting what he’s been told. He’s done exactly what he needs to do in the media world—raise his national profile, raise his status as a college sports reporter, and raise subscriptions for Texas Rivals. He has his place in the expansion game, and he performed admirably. I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets his promotion very soon.
Personally, I have a hard time swallowing all of this, and will say that 1) Of course there are things that were not fully disclosed between Texas, Beebe, the Leg and the other schools, but I am still not convinced that Texas is the big bad bully that screwed anyone over. They were looking out for their own interests, as any other institution would (I believe this to be true). And, 2) Chip Brown had his source, whoever it was, and yeah, probably acted as a mouthpiece to a large extent, but I disagree with those making him out to be some scavenger. Opportunist, yes. But as with Texas and any other person or organization, jealousy breeds contempt for those succeeding.
That, and bitches be hatin’.
by Infield Elephant on Jun 17, 2010 10:52 AM CDT reply actions
How is our take conspiratorial? We’re just reporting the Pac-10’s side of the story, which we found more believable than Scott suddenly rejecting Oklahoma State at the last minute.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Jun 17, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe the PAC 10 did not reject Ok State but
did raise the possibility of taking KU instead of Ok State? Not an ultimatum or demand but just asked about the possibility? That is believable to me. I can also believe that this triggered some action by Boone Pickens (Ok State benefactor) to make sure Ok State did not get kicked to the curb.
The simplest explanation is that Espn has the Big 12 games, Fox has the PAC 10 games and Espn wanted to protect their Big 12 investment. Accepting the PAC 10 offer would have destroyed the Big 12 and nobody in Big 12 country wanted that on their hands.
I can believe that, but that is not the line being presented in this article. This article portrays Scott as a bungling fool dictating his terms to Texas and changing his contract when he felt Texas was this close to joining, something I can’t believe he’d actually do and especially if A&M had already declined their offer.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Jun 17, 2010 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Boone Pickens
Why can’t I help but suspect that he is one of the mysterious “Illuminati” characters in this story?
by Dr. Lou's Psychiatrist on Jun 17, 2010 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I could see him in a black robe with a British judges-style wig doling out cosmic justice. Couldn’t you?
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
Wow, this response has a dual valence...
In one direction it’s a hilarious image. In the other direction having that image in my head is a bit disturbing.
by Dr. Lou's Psychiatrist on Jun 17, 2010 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions
It's probably not.
But I can see how many out there could think conspiracy when they hear opinions that this whole thing was contrived by Texas to screw over anyone in particular, or the more common greedy power fix. I’m catching that vibe. From my end (a UT fan perspective), it was a pretty jacked-up situation all around in which multiple parties didn’t look too good and institutions were all looking out for their own best interests – as you’d expect anyone to. Texas, being who they are, sticks out like a fart in a shower anytime money is brought into account, so I think judgment can be quickly passed when we come out on top in something. When it becomes an issue of ethics, I’ll be embarrassed. Until then, I am okay with being hated for our success. I can, however, understand (and respectfully disagree) the thought of UT being a greedy evil empire, or anything of the sort. Happens to anyone with comparable success (see Yankees, Cowboys, USC).
Your assessment of Chip Brown’s reporting is okay with me for the most part. You pointed out that he was merely reporting what he was being told. And I am not naive to think that his sources weren’t utilizing him as a sounding board for what they wanted the media and other schools/conferences to react to. But I don’t view him as pawn in a grand scheme being played out by old rich guys lurking in the shadows. I too found it obnoxious that he & the OB crew were dropping the “FREE limited time offers” every hour, but I would expect the same from any other rivals site, as well as any attempt to maintain their image.
Your post is well thought out and makes some valid points. Being one who has had no animosity toward Cal fans and many others who are angry with the UT (including many UT fans), I find it frustrating that many think Texas has destroyed college sports, screwed over the Pac-10 (or any other conference) or is blaming anything on anyone else. In retrospect, I am of the belief that we did the right thing in not jumping into the Pac-16 right now. Maybe later, but now the ball is Texas’ court and they want to be the ones that make the next move. Looking out for the own interest, as expected with any other school.
by Infield Elephant on Jun 17, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
My animosity towards Cal fans
ended with Tech delivering a woodshed beating as an appetiser and Vince laying claim to the Rose Bowl as the main course. Could not have written a better script that year.
by Horncasting on Jun 17, 2010 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
As a Cal fan, my animosity hasn’t ended! Couldn’t write a better script :)
"UC Davis??? hahahahaha" - Aaron Rodgers
by atomsareenough on Jun 17, 2010 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm very disappointed with Brown here
There’s no fact-checking here. He didn’t investigate any further and cross-check sources, etc. Just anonymous sources saying this and that without verification, and he reports it as “news”. And many mainstream people are now passing it off as “the definitive story”. We’re passing immediacy off as story, and this is very disturbing. He played very much like a pawn here. Just got the info and fed it around.
I think we’re not disagreeing here. Are we arguing? :)
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Jun 17, 2010 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions
How do you know he's doing this without verification?
He says he verified most of the information from multiple Big XII sources. He’s not naming any of them, but he is these days?
Chip is most definitely being fed information by the University for its own gain...
…but don’t discount him. He’s as mainstream and well-respected of a reporter as you’re going to get on the internet. Beat reporter for the Dallas Morning News for a long time, etc. I have no doubt that he has multiple sources. They may have all been telling him the same lie, but I just find it hard to believe at some point.
This elaborate “Texas orchestrated the whole thing from start to finish” nonsense makes us look like geniuses, but we’re not. We’re just very intent on always getting the best deal we can out of any scenario and we had all the leverage in this scenario so we milked it for what it was worth. When it came down to it, staying put was the best deal for Texas in the eyes of the administrators (for various reasons, including keeping our enemies close (i.e., A&M)) so they took it.
I don’t know why this is so hard to believe. Yes, maybe they fed Chip Brown some bad info about Kansas/OSU in order to deflect some of the blame for backing out, but this idea that Texas played everyone is absurd. Texas did what was in its best interests. For a while, it thought it was going to be the Pac10, but it ended up being a smaller Big12. That’s perfectly logical and has the added explanatory advantage of not assuming omniscient genius.
Chip Brown
did an excellent job on this story, he really worked his butt off. You are right that his sources colored the story but how could it be otherwise? I get the impression that bb is one of Chip’s sources. Over the years Chip has been an excellent reporter and has not let UT intimidate him.
Scott came very close to pulling this block buster deal off. It would not surprise me if the Big 12 tried to replace bb with Scott.
why the disappointment though...
Brown did just what Woodward and Bernstein did years ago… in the end, people forgot the things they wrote that were completely wrong, because enough of the things they got from anonymous sources ended up being enough to get the basic story. And just like them, there was more than a touch of self-promotion involved here too. That’s modern journalism, like it or not…
That said, I don’t buy the whole Ok State scenario though. I’m shocked that the Pac-10, especially Cal and Stanford were going to be okay with adding the Pokes (and Tech too) in the first place, but I find it hard to believe that UT was going to let that be the dealbreaker – $100 million aside, are we really that closely tied to OSU?. What makes more sense is that we were playing our hand and trying to get the very best deal we could, and suddenly our hand improved dramatically – Beebe came up with an ace on the river, so to speak. So we went back to Scott and said the pot would have to be sweetened. Kinda like the good old days of a seller’s market, when you could get a better job offer somewhere and use that to improve your current one. So we’re perceived as greedy… we were just like everybody else, trying to get the very best deal for ourselves. If anything, we were better because for whatever reasons we ended up helping out a lot of people. The only difference was that we had the very best hand (I plan on riding that analogy into the ground…), so we got the very best deal.
The part of the whole story that intrigues me the most is that mysterious cabal that supposedly helped Beebe out. Here we’ve got this goober commissioner swabbing the decks of the Titanic, and a bunch of people come out and help patch up the boat – all without using their real names… I’m really interested in the who and especially the why. I can come up with a lot of theories, but whoever writes the book, I’d like that part to be covered pretty well.
I think in a sense, Texas is too big a prize. All the big conferences are looking to position themselves in whatever brave new world comes to pass. And Texas changes the balance of power for all of them. An SEC with Texas would separate themselves dramatically. They’d probably be in reality what they consider themselves to be right now, and that’s a pretty scary thought. Texas gives the Big Ten a home run for their network, and a huge and growing market to offset their demographic problems. And the proposed Pac-16 would merge the entire west coast with the entire southwest, which would certainly be a formidable market force…
It’s a strange sort of equilibrium. Not like the NFL, where everyone’s in competition, but they’re all partners as well. In CFB, you need other conferences to be strong and healthy at some level, just to keep the whole BCS system from being an even bigger joke. But if your conference is the 800-lb. gorilla, there’s really not all that big a downside for you. And there is a downside if someone else’s conference is the 800-lb. gorilla…
I've been missing GBR
And some good recruiting news….and what’s up with Kreiss? Where have all the usual suspects been?
I haven't seen Patienthornsfan in a few weeks either
And speaking of b54 does anyone even remember T-Bone Stallone?
It's a Horns' world. Even Aggies play hoops with a burnt orange ball.
Remember T-Bone?!
The T-Bone vs 54b thread was epic win. PHF hasn’t been around for a while either. Hope all is ok with those guys.
As for 54b, from my recollection, he usually takes the summers off. Football is his bread and butter.
He's on his way back from Pullman, WA.
As soon as Chip Brown broke the PAC-16 news, PB dispatched him for PAC-16 Roadtrip series he was to write. I here he got stuck in Boulder on the way back at some bar he used to frequent…..
Maybe it's just vacation season?
We’re all entitled to some time away from the job, the PC screen, the grind.
To brighten your day: It’s 2:43 p.m., CDT, deep in the heat of Texas. And OU sux. As usual.
didn't see it posted but ESPN reports that Texas lawmakers are pushing to have Houston invited
to join to Big 12. Let’s really try to diminish the league….Maybe smu too? Stephen F. Austin anyone?
Don't sweat it
Rep. Coleman is a really good guy, and he is just doing his job trying to get some press for his school. UofH has been steadily improving and trying to work toward tier 1 status, but everyone knows they are not their yet. They share the same problem as a lot of schools that are commuter schools in big cities with NFL teams. Not many folks follow or watch UH football. They are building a new stadium though and that will be a good start for them. I remember the year UT played them and they had erected scaffolding to hold all the UT fans. Luckily the city inspectors nixed the contraptions. The scaffolding looked really dangerous. Anyway, this has about as much of a chance happening as Texas has going to Conference USA. No worries. Let UH have their few minutes of press since they really need the help.
My only concern is . . .
. . . Jerry Jones trying to buy his way into the conference (for we’ve established that we’re all about the benjamins, and there’s a price at which we could be bought off) and gaining support from UHers as the 12th school.
I’ll stress that this is a very, very small concern, but it does seem to be at least in the land of the theoretical.
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 17, 2010 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Not trying to promote my own comments
but HH I am eager to hear your take on the provisional idea I posted here
It's a Horns' world. Even Aggies play hoops with a burnt orange ball.
It’s an interesting idea in theory, but I’m not sure how it would work out in reality. It would lead to perpetual uncertainty (one example: would we ever schedule an OOC against Rice if we didn’t know whether they’d be in or out of our conference in any particular year). Also, when a school was unable to prove itself, how quickly would it be replaced? You see that these conference changes usually take at least a year. And also, what would be the standard by which a school proved itself? What if you had another Baylor (awful on the football field but pretty decent everywhere else)?
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 18, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
As much as Pickens has his sun-spotted fingers in every aspect of OSU matters, I have to wonder how they’ll survive when he dies.
by dukeoforange on Jun 17, 2010 11:28 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Like those Caddies sticking up out of the Llano Estacado
T-Boone’s money will hang a round for a pretty good while.
He was right because he was spoon fed his info from UT. Nothing against him or the school, but c’mon. The guy was a mouthpiece used by the university (to great effectiveness). I’m sure he’s a good reporter on his own merits, but this is clearly a case of a school wanting certain information released at a certain time and they found their guy in CB.
In regards to his column, someone needs to evaluate his shoulder for a frayed labrum. What with all the self-congratulatory back slapping he did.
Whether Texas manipulated information via CB is not quite proven
but it is quite interesting that Texas might have the skills and precision to bring that off, at least in your eyes.
On the other hand, I can’t say as much for the Tech administration and their bout with Leach.
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