Realignment - The Academics Angle
Not to worry -- this FanPost is not another speculation about who goes where, or my own plan for the next great Texas-led Megaconference. I want to explore how much of a factor y'all believe academic prowess will play in conference realignment.
BevoBoy94's post on the rumor that the Pac-10 wants to invite UT + 5 to its conference, and the many references from commenting BONers about academics and AAU membership, led me to do some quick research. Of the 63 AAU member institutions, seven are from the Pac-10 (Arizona, Cal, Oregon, UCLA, USC, Stanford, Washington) and seven from the Big XII (A&M, Colorado, Iowa State, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Texas). All 11 Big Ten schools are AAU members. The SEC? Just two (Florida, Vanderbilt).
My questions: Even though "most of us will be going pro in something other than sports," I think of the conferences more in athletic than academic terms. What am I missing? Where and how strongly does academic prestige come into play, particularly in realignment discussions? Would academics alone be enough to tank any Texas interest in the SEC? Can the Pac-10 possibly be serious about OU, OSU and Tech?
I'd appreciate some enlightenment. Thanks.
All comments, FanPosts, and FanShots are the views of the reader-authors who create them.
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Hopkins Horn can link to his reasoning but...
IMHO, academics or research dollars and other academic affiliates (CIC, AAU) are a huge part. The decision to move will not be made by Mack or Dodds but by the academic minded administrators in the tower who are more interested in academic prestige and research funding than athletics. That’s why many people think the SEC is a non-starter for us.
I think the Big 10 is especially concerned with academics (if other factors are a fit like TV sets, culture are acceptable) than the PAC 10 since the Big 10 is also made up of AAU and CIC schools. The PAC 10 is concerned with academics of new members but the PAC 10 conference itself appears to be first and foremost an athletic conference. For this reason, I can MAYBE see a situation where the PAC 10 accepts say ou, tech and osu to get us and aggie. Maybe. I don’t ever see the Big 10 accepting anyone but us and aggie from the Big 12 academic wise.
I’m also coming to the realization that to form these so called super conferences the PAC 10 would be willing to let in tech to get the entire state of Texas and our TV sets. To get to the 16 team threshold you’re bound to have some undesirables academically. Tech and OSU and OU can sit in the corner with ASU ans WA. St. I guess.
In conclusion- San Dimas High School football rules!
Your tongue can't repel flavor of that magnitude!!
Academics?
You take a better view of the motives of the UT Administration than I do.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
Sort of Agree With You
In addition, how much prestige academically does the Big 12 have over any other conference for UT. I think it is fair to say that UT academics are the class of the Big 12, and an UT move to the SEC would immediately prop the SEC above remaining Big 12. The only other school that adds academic prestige to the Big XII is the Aggies, as they have some specialty fields of study that are nationally ranked. So if you have an Horn/Aggie package – it would immediately make the destination conference superior to the Big XII.
It's not about prolong up the SEC
Everyone knew the big 12 was formed a bit relectuntly. If you are talking about a move (assumimg one would be made) we would look to a conference to increase our academic prestige not raise the profile of others. In fact, joining the SEC could actually lower our percieved acad. prestige. If we want or have to move, why join a conference similiar or worse in academics and research than the big 12? Why not collect more tv money and a boatload more resersch dollars in a conference with similar missions as universities. The SEC does not fit that profile.
Part (just part) of this whole wanting to move is UT really wanting to be amongst other premier public universities.
Your tongue can't repel flavor of that magnitude!!
by UT2001 on Jun 5, 2010 2:25 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I disagree with this
Joining the Big Ten probably does help UT’s academic prestige, but does joining the SEC really hurt them in that field? Florida’s academics have risen dramatically over the last 20 years as has Georgia’s. It’s not like everyone discounts Vanderbilt because they are in the SEC. Has being associated with the Big XII, which isn’t exactly a who’s who of great public institutions, hurt UT’s profile the past 15 years? Not at all.
The SEC is the most natural athletic fit for Texas. I just don’t think Texas wants to be a part of the SEC’s NFL-type model where the school matters but the LEAGUE matters more.
One of the expansion articles I read...
On ESPN or SI.com listed OU as an AAU school and I was excited because I didn’t think we were. Then I found out that it was wrong and I was right. Oh well.
That being said, Boren has improved OU’s academics tremendously since I was in school (2000-2004). Obviously we are still nowhere near you gents, but I’m not embarrassed at all to mention that I have an OU degree as I may be had I gone to some other Big 12 schools.
The Ralphie Report - University of Colorado Athletics
The Crimson and Cream Machine - University of Oklahoma Athletics
by Jon Woods on Jun 5, 2010 12:12 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Yep, it's definitely not quite a degree from Tech or K-State
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 5, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
At the end of the day, it's not any better than a degree from Tech...
No offense Jon, but I’d rather have a degree from a 2nd tier institution in the state of Texas than 1 of the two 2nd tier universities in Oklahoma.
You should take pride in whatever school you went to, but I wouldn’t boast of a degree from ou.
by SneezyBeltran on Jun 5, 2010 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Ouch
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 6, 2010 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Except for the fact that Tech and OSU are tier 3...
So, according to US News and World Report, it is better.
By the way, which institution in the state of Texas do boast a degree from?
by BrooklynSooner on Jun 6, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
University of Texas-2006
Is that ok with you Brooklyn? Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you if you’re such a big fan of ou. Hope this makes things better, although I’m pretty sure Tech’s on par with ou and of course, the fact that it’s not in oklahoma helps their case.
At the end of the day, your degree is from a school in oklahoma, haha……take that how you want….
by SneezyBeltran on Jun 6, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Sounds like you’ve done some solid research. Did you major in talking out of your ass or just minor in it?
by BrooklynSooner on Jun 6, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I majored in putting the ass in class. It's working out great!
by SneezyBeltran on Jun 6, 2010 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I understand...
Even Yale let W through. It happens.
by BrooklynSooner on Jun 6, 2010 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Wish I had as much time as you BS....
Then I too could talk trash on other team’s blogs….cool!
by SneezyBeltran on Jun 6, 2010 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Yea, there's the Ouch.
Plus, I’m pretty sure I was doing everything but boasting.
The Ralphie Report - University of Colorado Athletics
The Crimson and Cream Machine - University of Oklahoma Athletics
I was thinking the same thing
I don’t think OU’s up there with UT in academics, but it’s definitely better than the D-2 school I attended for undergrad.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 6, 2010 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions
My bad Jon
Not a very nice gesture on my part
by SneezyBeltran on Jun 6, 2010 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions
No worries.
The Ralphie Report - University of Colorado Athletics
The Crimson and Cream Machine - University of Oklahoma Athletics
You have to start with the counterintuitive notion that academic and athletic cooperation overlap
As has been mentioned by several on this board, that doesn’t entirely make sense, but the Ivy League, Big 10 (CIC), ACC, and SEC all have formed academic cooperatives along their athletic lines. I suppose the largest single contributing factor to this is the regular interface between faculty and administrators because of athletics (and yes, believe it or not, many faculty love sports). The CIC is the most famous example, with good reason, because they’re out in front and it doesn’t look like anyone can catch up. That said, results may vary, and graduate students/researchers stand to benefit the most. That’s important for UT, because the emphasis is on graduate programs.
But yes, according to former UT president Robert Berdahl, academics killed the move the SEC last time. The former SEC commish remembers differently but he also doesn’t remember negotiating with the President, only the athletic director, which probably says more about the way SEC schools conduct business than anything else.
It also should be noted that the Big 10 has higher academic requirements for athletes than the SEC, though these rules still don’t bring them up to the rest of the student body.
proud to swim home
Great info, thanks
Had no idea that research dollars might in any way be pegged to conference membership. I’d teed up AAU membership as a starting point for this discussion (I’ve never heard of the CIC, so thanks for that), but learnedhand brings up academic requirements for athletes as well. Now there’s a genuine academic-athletic link I had overlooked. There’s also the athletes’ academic standing and graduation rates, I suppose. You figure these are all in the mix — along with market share and tv sets?
To some extent, yes, that's what makes for all the discussion
Partial qualifiers – allowed in the SEC, disallowed in the Big 10/Big 12 (at UT’s demand)/Pac 10 – are an often mentioned stumbling block. I don’t know how much value Belmont and the Tower places on this, but I do know they shoved in down Nebraska’s throat during conference formation and Tom Osbourne is still pissed.
UT’s graduation rates for football players are…not good, but they wouldn’t be the absolute worst in the Big 10. That said, they could take a hit because the Big 10 places some restrictions on community college credit, summer courses and raises the minimum semester course load for its athletes. (Link from Michigan St.) After the Christian Scott fiasco last year, that’s somewhat troublesome.
We tend to talk a lot more about dollars, because they’re readily quantified, but past negotiations have shown that these things have value. Unfortunately, it’s hard to guess what that value is to the decision makers.
proud to swim home
Are you sure about all this?
I’ve read a lot of contradictory information on partial qualifiers and the SEC, and my impression now is that they do not allow partial qualifiers, or didn’t start until very recently. Also, I had heard that the Pac-10 does allow some partial qualifiers, or some non-qualifiers, as does the Big XII under some circumstances.
I can’t get a straight answer from the internet, which I suppose is to be expected. Do you have any link to a comprehensive listing of the NQ and partial Q rules for each conference?
Yep, though I mistated the Pac 10's stance
The Pac 10 allows 2 mens and two womens partial qualifiers per freshman class, with a maximum of 1 per sport. Same for the ACC.
proud to swim home
All the theory is fine
Reality is that UT wants no part of the SEC athletically . . . academic differences would play into the decision, as would the reality that some SEC schools are close enough to UT that our recruiting could be impacted. But on athletic quality (from a football standpoint, in particular) the SEC would be a much tougher league to win than the Big Ten or Pac-10, or the current Big 12.
UT’s admininstrators might like the idea of the Big Ten, but costs and athletic interests work against a move “north.” Not saying it won’t happen . . .
Sadly, given the realities of TV dollars and TV markets, the Big 12 region’s low population figures (other than Texas), work against a prolonged, and prosperous, Big 12 future.
So the issue is more WHEN to make a move than IF. And, of course, what kind of clout we carry to the new conference and what kind of demands we can extract insofar as dollars and those who “go with us” and how much impact all this has on scheduling.
Super Pac or Pac 16 or SEC
I still believe that we need to keep the Big XII together. If that doesn’t work the next best option is either Pac 16 or SEC. I just don’t think there is much for either school to be gained from joining the Big 10. Besides I can handle traveling to LA or Berkeley once in a while but I just don’t want to go to Wisconsin, Michigan or Minnesota in late fall or winter
Yeah, but that's basically just U-dub and Wazzu
Not every single team in the conference, as with the Big Ten. Now that Minny’s in an open-air stadium, every team in that conference is knee-deep in snow a lot of the time.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 6, 2010 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
And not just snow...
…cold, too. And U-Dub’s not even really that bad. Wazzu comprises the worst of the cold and snow in the conference on its own.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 6, 2010 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Snow in Seattle is rare
Washington State is the only crappy destination weather-wise
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
I know it's all just rumors, but....
Apparently the aggies are talking to the sec?…
by SneezyBeltran on Jun 5, 2010 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions

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