Baylor. Baylor. BAYLOR?!?
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 5, 2010 9:41 PM CDT
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Stop the train heading west to the Pac 10...
Already, the political forces in Texas are preparing to make demands that if six schools from the Big 12 are going to be invited to the Pac-10, Baylor should replace Colorado on that list, according to two sources close to the situation.
"If you're going to have an exported commodity involved in this, do you think we're going to allow a school from outside the state of Texas to replace one of our schools in the Big 12 South? I don't think so. We're already at work on this," said a high-ranking member of the Texas Legislature who asked not to be identified.
Please, for the love of God, if any pro-Texas, pro-A&M and pro-Tech legislators happen to be reading this, if your combined weight in the Legislature can't keep Baylor from mucking this up (and I'm pretty sure adding Baylor mucks this up), then each and every one of you needs a testicular transplant immediately. (Unless, of course, you are a female legislator. Then I don't know what kind of surgery you'd need.)
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When . . .
in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
by rumplestiltsglenn on Jun 5, 2010 10:04 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
ok
so we go independent. the big ten brings in four to take them to fifteen. we are independent and can schedule anybody. we schedule just as if we were in the big ten. not eligible to win the conference, of course, but everything else. special provision admits us to the cic. some day in the future, maybe, we join up.
by rumplestiltsglenn on Jun 5, 2010 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions
What's their deal?
This “me too” syndrome would be comical if it wasn’t so damn intrusive.
If you're so sure of what it ain't, how about telling us what it am!
Pac-10 badly wants Colorado
This would be a dealbreaker. That said, does anyone really think that the Baylor backers have the power to make this happen again.
Baylor instead of Oklahoma State or Texas Tech could work. But Colorado is the Pac-10s second crown jewel in the whole scenario. This is a non-starter.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
Why?
What does Colorado have to offer? Baylor is good at b-ball atleast. Colorado sucks at everything.
The Denver tv market is actually bigger than Austin....
It’s not some small market….good point Arroyo
by SneezyBeltran on Jun 6, 2010 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions
You may want to sit this one out
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Jun 6, 2010 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Their baseball team is undefeated.
Great Cross-country team as well.
Stumpy: It's called the '80s. Ford was president, Nixon was in the White House, and FDR was running this country into the ground. I was bummin' in a hole-in-the-wall town in what is now called "Utah".
Colorado baseball
What is even better is that the Big XII store sells Colorado baseball shirts online.
by OminousPolaris on Jun 6, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm sure I'm missing a joke here
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 6, 2010 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions
They have cross country, though
And I guess they do have this. Maybe they could go NCAA?
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 6, 2010 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Several reasons
Colorado is a better undergraduate, graduate and research institution than Baylor. Colorado has many Californians attend the school which means Colorado will draw well at Cal, Stanford , UCLA and USC events. Plus, Baylor is Baylor and has nothing to offer the Pac-10 other than to say “unless you take Baylor, you can’t have Texas.” In other words, no one wants Baylor on their own merits.
Colorado is basically East California
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 6, 2010 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions
We'll see
They can make some noise, but don’t control the same positions of power they did when the legislature forced them on the Big 12.
That said, the same state Senator who brokered the backroom deals last time, David Sibley, is running for reelection in District 22 after briefly honoring his term limit pledge to become a lobbyist. Deja Vu all over again, though the Lt. governor is a Pac 10 (Arizona) grad this time around, instead of a Baylor grad. That could make things interesting.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Jun 6, 2010 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions
David Sibley, with Bob Bullock backing him. They can saber rattle all they want, but I don’t see it in the end. They don’t have the strong athletic programs or the academics to make a tough stand.
don't forget
a decision to extend an invite to a team has to meet unanimous vote of the Pac-10 membership. The chance Stanford ever votes to allow a religious school is less than zero.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
I have to think...
…that BU can be stopped by the Legislature.
Because it should be clear as day that adding Baylor would be the poison pill to kill any movement whatsoever. No way the Pac 10 would accept Baylor. (And I wouldn’t blame the Pac 10 one bit for killing this, even at the expense of rejecting Texas as well.)
Unless a poison pill to keep the Big XII gang together is what these fools want, in which case, I think it would be an extraordinarily short-sighted move, given the inevitability of the Big XII collapsing, whether it be this week, this year, or this decade.
probably...
Unless a poison pill to keep the Big XII gang together is what these fools want
I think Baylor is playing sick to keep mommy from going on vacation with her new boyfriend.
by BrooklynHorn on Jun 6, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Can't really blame Baylor
for not wanting to be left out. And I don’t know how much influence they have right now, but I can’t really blame them for calling all hands to stop this. This merger leaves them with very little.
Athletically they get pounded evey year, but the financial and esteem (wrong word, but can’t think of a better one) benefit for them that comes with belonging to the same confernece with the larger state schools right now puts them above the TCU’s and SMU’s and UH’s of the world in a lot of respects. That is who they would be if we all bolt for the PAC 16.
"A lot of people look for the easy way to do anything, in swimming there is no easy way." - Eddie Reese
Absolutely I can blame them
They’ve been masquerading as a Big XII team for 14 years; they’ve never really belonged here, and they certainly wouldn’t belong in the PAC-16.
And they know it. They’ve always known it.
There is no difference of opinion on Baylor’s part, they simply want something they haven’t earned, which is a far more accurate way to frame this than “Baylor is trying not to get screwed.”
I never really hated [or cared anything at all about] Baylor
but if they screw this up for everyone involved (this will not just piss off the Texas schools, but the PAC-10 schools as well), I just might despise them more than OU and USC combined.
Baylor adds less to the equation than any other FBS level private school in Texas
So, of course it makes sense that the legislature is trying to force them on a super-conference.
Unbelievable.
proud to swim home
Boise State is a glorified junior college
and, again, offers nothing in anything except football. Boise State is also a non-starter for the Pac-10.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Jun 6, 2010 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why would they come at the expense of CU?
Why not at the expense of OKSt? That makes a lot more sense academically and financially.
Because then...
…you’ll have the Oklahoma legislature howling that Oklahoma State has to be included if Oklahoma is.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Jun 6, 2010 2:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I get the feeling the OU-OU Lite relationship is a lot like the Texas-A&M relationship. One really can’t make a move with out the other. They are a package deal.
I dunno
does the state of oklahoma really hold any power in this? not really. UT and I suppose the state of Texas are dictating the terms. A&M is the real UT rival and is academically qualified. OU not so much. They weren’t even SWC members. The only reason for Pac-10 to bring them along is to appease UT and maintain the RRR. UT has no real connection with OK St. But OU should be delighted they are being invited. I would think OU would be willing to break up with OK St. just for the Pac-16 money and to avoid joining some MWC/BigXII leftover conference. OK legislature might be howling, but not sure they’ll be able to do anything about it.
Not to be that guy, but....
“They weren’t even SWC members.”
Not when the SWC dissolved no, but Oklahoma and Oklahoma State (then Oklahoma A&M) were charter members of the SWC. OU (1915-1919) and OSU (1915-1925).
OK, 70 years ago
either way I think Baylor has little chance of ending up in the Pac-10.
They should drop OK St. and add Utah. Tech is enough of a concession for the Texas legislature. Utah is a much better fit academically for the Pac-10 and a better traveling partner for CU. OU may pout, but I think it’ll be hard for them to not come along after looking at what’s left of the Big 12 if Missouri/Nebraska leave. That’s a big IF though.
Never mind.
This is just the same article that was posted in the beginning. I was afraid this was picking up steam.
I hate to mix religion and politics ...
… but the political influence Baylor wields probably has more to do with the Southern Baptist Convention that with Waco legislators or powerful alumni. Nothing against Baylor — I think it’s a decent school and am usually glad when it fields competitive teams, if only to provide some vindication for the original Big XII deal.
Baylor has research clout...really
The National Geographic devoted two whole pages to Baylor research.
2 whole pages = 1 picture...yay!!
good job studying water composition post sewage plant…so it was an on campus study?
#26 - Quitters Unite!!!
It was on company property, with company property. So, double jeopardy, we're fine.
Maybe Texas fans can enlighten me.........
As to how Texas is this mighty superior force compared to OU. A couple of quick facts before the trailer park/inbred comments let loose…..OU owns the Big 12 in football. That’s right, 6 conference titles speaks volumes. The program produced two Heisman trophy winners this decade. Not to mention, the whole 7 national titles compared to the 4 UT titles is a big deal. What amazes me about the University of Texas is that with the talent your state produces, UT should definately have more national championships than say the Sooners or even Bammer. But they don’t. And yet I continually hear/read about UT fans beating their chests because of their recruiting classes. Yet their program has less titles than Nebraska………BOOMER!
Now hold on...
The Sooners are officially off probation as of two Sundays ago.
For now. Next week, who knows. :-)
You and SEC fans just don't get it
it’s not all about football. In fact, it’s not even close to being all about football.
by goingforthecorner on Jun 6, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions
And when it comes to football, OU definitely beats out UT in at least one major dept.:
Cheating.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 6, 2010 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions
This thread is not meant to demean the Land Thieves.
But you can sum it up in one word: MONEY. We have more of it. Every conference wants it and the national audience we draw. Texas is a big tv market.
OU has a national following (as i said earlier), but you lack the money that our athletic dept. produces and you lack the market share.
You should go back into the archives and look at all the previous posts about realignment.
by dimecoverage on Jun 6, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Seven titles
But only two or three are clean. Zero U has five probations too, which should have wiped out four of those titles. We have four titles and none tainted by cheating. Plus we make the most money of any athletic program in the nation by about $20 million. Zero U is not even in the top ten. Oh yeah, and six Big XII titles eh? How are those BCS bowls going for ya? We are 3-1 with a * next to that one. Zero U is 2-5, losing five in a row. And we own the RRS 59-40-5. Plus, as goingforthecorner said, it’s not all about football. We have 43 other national titles for 47 total (hopefully 48 in two to three weeks). Zero U has 26, which includes those tainted football “titles.” And we have been named the “Best Sports College in America” but yeah, we have no reason to beat our chests…
by OminousPolaris on Jun 6, 2010 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Just once...
I’d like to hear from an OU perspective what it was like to learn that OU has never won an MNC under a program that wasn’t sanctioned by the NCAA. Wilkinson – 3 titles and 2 major NCAA violations, Switzer – 3 titles and 3 major NCAA violations, Stoops – 1 title and Big Red (after the appeal the violation is actually not considered “major” anymore). If OU is so good, why is there a need to cheat to win?
Texas is very successful with it’s athletic programs, isn’t cheating, is an excellent academic institution, makes money, has a national following, and brings with it to any conference the bulk of the viewership in Texas.
59-40-5. Just think, all OU needs to do is sweep the next 19 years and they can even up the series against that little po-dunk school in Austin. Lose this year and they’re down by two decades.
by hungry on Jun 6, 2010 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ann Richards
Did it when the Big XII wanted BYU to be the 12th member but she threw a fit along with other Baylor alums and made it happen.
Mountain West Connection The best site for MWC sports!
It wasn’t Ann Richards. It was David Sibley and Bob Bullock. She obviously went along but she didn’t really give a damn about the SW Conf. I actually heard her say it. No second hand, I was there.
Why the hell is Baylor so powerful?
They are mediocre academically and horrible athletically.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
BU had the right people...
in the right place in 1994 when this went down the first time. If the SWC had finally broken down a couple of years earlier, it’s quite likely that the then-speaker, a TCU grad, would have ensured that TCU, and not Baylor, would have been the 12th Big XII school.
And now, BU supporters, despite being weaker than they were, are trying to preserve their place in the BCS. It’s easier to fight to keep what you already have rather than to ask to be included in something new. So, again, if things had been timed differently two decades agi, your question would have been why a medicore TCU (and, if TCU had been in the Big XII, they would have filled the role BU plays today) was possibly being forced upon the Pac 10 by the Texas Legislature.
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 6, 2010 6:30 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Baylor
Actually, they are similarly ranked to CU and are won of the better academic schools in the Big 12 (although when your competition is Tech, Okie lite, Okie, etc., that’s easier to do). Also they have more conference titles and a larger endowment than several of the other Big 12 members, more appearances in the baseball tournament than we do, and though they’re mediocre in football, they are traditionally great in baseball, tennis, track, and women’s basketball, and don’t forget they were a basket away from going to the Final Four this past March. They aren’t a powerhouse, but they aren’t horrible either. The theocracy bit is the problem, though, and ultimately the biggest reason I didn’t go there despite everyone in my family having gone there for generations.
I definitely think ags would be much more at home in the SEC
And I think the SEC would benefit greatly from having you guys. But please, oh please, don’t give the SEC that invitation into the state.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 6, 2010 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions
The academic argument is extremely weak......
Seriously. No College is easy in my opinion. Heck, I earned an Associate’s degree from a tiny community college in Enterprise, Alabama when I was stationed at good old Ft. Rucker back in the day. The freaking community college was tough! Whether I get an engineering degree from OU, Louisiana Tech, or even Southeastern Oklahoma state, the degree is still an engineering degree thus increasing my chances at earning a job in that career field. UT is known for law……OU is known for Meteorology…..Oklahoma State has a great farming/economics/something like that program. The bottom line is a degree from any university is still a degree, thus the academic argument is weak in my opinion. If OU graduated less than 20 percent of their football players, you all could talk trash….. As to the bowl game arguments, lets compare: OU 25-17-1, UT 25-22-2. UT owned OU back in the late 50’s/60’s when you guys had a Sooner coaching your football team and even back when Oklahoma was new to statehood, thus gaining the advantage in the series. The 90’s were tough times as a Sooner… I as a fan take pride in the fact that my team has produced 5 Heisman trophy winners and own a 47 game winning streak. I’m quite amazed that the tiny state of Oklahoma has produced 4 of those winners…. As to which school makes the most money, as money has turned into the most important thing college football today, I could care less. Seriously……BOOMER SOONER!
Boo!
I was really looking forward to your response as I was wading through this comment…
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 6, 2010 6:37 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The freaking community college was tough!
I can’t figure out why this guy is an Oklahoma fan
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Jun 6, 2010 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If this comes to pass...
…you’ll learn that the Aggies and Sooners are the gifts which keep on giving.
by Hopkins Horn on Jun 6, 2010 6:50 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
As I said in today’s BDR…Stoops and Kiffin in the conference…Aggies in Berkeley…The fun just won’t end.
and you'll learn the joys of Washington, Oregon State, and UCLA
we already learned all we needed to know about Oklahoma in our infamous matchup earlier this decade.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
Washington got a nice taste of Sooner in 2008 when they blocked the team from leaving their locker room and when they had enough of Mr. Granger’s play.
Welcome to the Big 12’s problem child.
Listen dude
If you keep this up, I’m going to have to ask you to stick around.
"I live in the tower with Coach Brown." -Bevo
You realize
that OU received one of their major violations under Wilkinson in the midst of that 47 game winning streak, right? And…
Of course a fan of OU that never went to school there thinks all college degrees are the same...
The academic argument is about research, not difficulty of degree. If hard degrees were a desire MIT would be a top prospect. If a school is producing Nobel Laureates, or breakthroughs they bring academic respect and provide the conference the ability to sit on a high horse and proclaim they are elite academically = more students = more $$$. Although I’m sure that CC was pretty hard, it is a disco with books.
#26 - Quitters Unite!!!
It was on company property, with company property. So, double jeopardy, we're fine.
Pac 10 will bend over for UT and take Baylor
If I was a Buff fan, I would be very worried, or be mad at my program for generating only a 2.0 TV rating last season.
I'm still confused about the importance of ratings
Do ratings actually indicate market share, or just the opinion of a voluntary sample population on the quality of the programming? If it’s the latter, then I really have to question the constant mention of ratings as anything important, because people generally do not make quality their most important decision factor in what they’re going to watch.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 7, 2010 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Why would Pac 10, Texas or A&M want Ken Starr's BU included
They contribute nothing, but the do get some whiners like Osbourne off or back. Bottom line, the will let Pac 10 play the bad guy and simply say sorry, Stanford checked out Baylor and said-What a dump! No thank you. Pac 10 teams will have to say look—we are giving you a freebie for one school in order to get the group, but that school is Tech. If you want Baylor instead of Tech, fine. But it isn’t goig to be Balor instead of CU.
Pac 16 should look at Utah, BYU, Boise or TCU instead of Baylor and Tech and leave them both out.
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