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Why Your Preseason Heisman Frontrunner is Wrong: The Terrelle Pryor Edition

This is the first entry in a series of posts on why your favorite players will not win the Heisman Trophy.  Given that only one player wins the Heisman every year I have a high probability of being right.

Ever since January 7th I've done very little but think about Football. I admit it it's an obsession. On Saturdays I watch UT, on Sundays I watch Dallas, and weekends in the off-season MAKE ME NUTS!

In an attempt to pass the time, my fellow fans have tried to compile a list of preseason picks to be Heisman finalists. These picks are silly. I'm aware of their purpose; hell, that's why I read these lists. However it is way too early to predict a Heisman winner, or even a list of finalists. I'm not going to show you which players will be finalists, but instead show you why it's too soon to call the front runners out.

Look at any sort of list and the names start appearing. Terrelle Pryor, Noel Devine, Jake Locker, Case Keenum, Kellen Moore, Mark Ingram, Ryan Mallet, even Landry Jones is mentioned as a possible Heisman contender. What do we have to base any of these claims on? How Jones, Locker, Mallet, and Ingram did last season is no indication of future success. What's even worse is basing all of Pryor's ability upon his Rose Bowl MVP performance. That is the subject of today's piece.

Star-divide

Terrelle Pryor is the Starting Quarterback for the Ohio State Buckeyes. Currently recognized as the #1 team in the Big 10, Ohio State has a good chance of making it to the 2011 BCS National Championship game. As such every single player on the team is being analyzed position-by-position. No player has been more analyzed than Terrelle Pryor who is recognized as the team's Heisman contender going forward. Pryor's stats from last year are not exactly legendary. What makes Pryor such an interesting player is that his playing style and ability seems remarkably similar to Vince Young. Both players had fairly standard, but not spectacular Sophomore seasons, and both players turned in performances in the Rose Bowl that were hailed as turning points in their respective careers. So it stands to reason that Pryor will have a spectacular season like Young, right? We'll let's do some research into statistics. Since we know nothing about Pryor's 2010 season yet, instead we will evaluate the two player's Sophomore season statistics. Let's see how close these two players really are.

Here are Vince Young's 2004-2005 Season Statistics:

2004-2005

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vs.

Date

Score

             Rushing

                              Passing

 

 

 

Rushes

Net

TDs

Att

Comp

Int

Yards

TDs

North Texas

9/4/2004

65-0

8

49

0

21

14

0

153

1

Arkansas

9/11/2004

22-20

14

56

0

22

11

0

150

2

Rice

9/25/2004

35-13

8

64

0

18

11

2

161

3

Baylor

10/2/2004

44-14

5

55

0

20

15

0

189

2

Oklahoma

10/9/2004

0-12

16

54

0

23

8

0

86

0

Missouri

10/16/2004

28-20

5

53

1

9

3

2

19

0

Texas Tech

10/23/2004

51-21

25

158

4

15

10

0

142

1

Colorado

10/30/2004

31-7

15

68

2

15

8

2

71

0

Oklahoma St.

11/6/2004

56-35

12

123

1

21

18

2

278

1

Kansas

11/13/2004

27-23

19

114

1

40

22

2

289

1

Texas A&M

11/26/2004

26-13

19

93

1

18

12

0

131

0

Michigan

1/1/2005

38-37

21

192

4

28

16

1

180

1

Totals

2004-2005

 

167

1079

14

250

148

11

1849

12

 

Here are Pryor's 2009 Stats:

2009-2010

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vs.

Date

Score

          Rushing

              Passing

 

 

 

Rushes

Gain

TDs

Att

Comp

Int

Yards

TDs

Navy

9/5/2009

 31-27

6

30

1

21

14

1

174

1

USC

9/12/2009

15-18

10

36

0

25

11

1

177

0

Toledo

9/19/2009

38-0

12

110

1

28

17

2

262

3

Illinois

9/26/2009

30-0

11

59

0

13

8

0

82

1

Indiana

10/3/2009

33-14

16

63

1

28

17

1

166

3

Wisconsin

10/10/2009

31-13

10

35

0

13

5

1

87

1

Purdue

10/17/2009

26-18

21

34

1

31

17

2

221

1

Minnesota

10/24/2009

38-7

15

104

1

25

13

1

239

2

New Mexico St.

10/31/2009

45-0

9

83

1

23

11

0

135

1

Penn State

11/7/2009

24-7

5

50

1

17

8

0

125

2

Iowa

11/14/2009

27-24

8

29

0

17

14

0

93

0

Michigan

11/21/2009

21-10

19

74

0

17

9

1

67

1

Oregon

1/1/2010

26-17

20

72

0

37

23

1

266

2

Totals

2009-2010

 

162

779

7

295

167

11

2094

18

Taken from ESPN.com: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=379070

The first thing to discern from these stats is that there is something deficient in Pryor's ability to run the football. In 2004 Vince Young rushed 167 times and ran the ball for a total of 1079 yards. By the same token Pryor ran it 162 times and managed only 779, 300 yards less than Young did with only 5 more carries. Yes some may argue, that Pryor had better passing yards than Young, but one needs to remember that Pryor had one extra game in which he could prove himself.

To get an idea of how these two QBs rack up against one another, we should look at their statistics per game. We'll start with Rushing Stats. In 2004 Vince Young played 12 games and had a total of 1079 rushing yards. Pryor had 13 games and 779 yards rushing.  This means that per game, Young had 89.91 YPG and Pryor had 59.92 YPG. That's nearly 30 yards less per game. To hammer in the point even further Young had a 6.46 YPC average, while Pryor had a 4.8 YPC average. This tells us that although Pryor is a good threat at running the ball, he lacks the vision and athleticism that Young had. Furthermore Young had 1.16 rushing TDs per game and Pryor had .53. That means that every game you could statistically expect Young to rush for at least one touchdown while you could only expect that about half the time from Pryor. By far Young was the more efficient runner of the two, as his ability to run could kill you, while from Pryor you might expect at most a 15 yd rush. Pryor as a rusher reminds me much of more of Colt McCoy than he does Vince Young.

We can also apply this formula to Passing Yards. In 2004 Young passed for 1849 yards and Pryor passed for 2094 yards. That means that Young passed for 154 YPG and Pryor passed for 161 yards per game. It's doubtful 6 yards would have allowed Young and the Longhorns to beat Oklahoma in 2004, so the difference is negligible. This is where Pryor's candidacy increases the most. Between 2004 and 2005, Young increased his throwing yards by more than 1200 yards. If Pryor can do the same he would have a shot at greatness. However, before assuming Pryor could jump those yards let's examine the reasons why Young's yards shot up so much.

 What was it that made Young's season so great? The first thing that pops into my mind is the zone read offense. In this system the Halfback lines up next to the Quarterback in the shotgun like so: Zone-read_medium

via footballxos.files.wordpress.com

When the quarterback takes the snap the halfback runs in front of the quarterback and has the choice of handing off the ball or keeping it. If he decides to keep it he then has two options. He can either pass the ball to a receiver, or if the receivers are blocked he can run the ball. This gave the defenses facing Texas 3 different ways they would have to defend the play: the halfback and quarterback could both rush and the QB could also  throw the football if he picked up the blitz. It was a system designed for Young. No one has executed it quite as well since Young, because no other quarterback has had the speed, the perception, and the arm to pull it off. It is essential that the QB run and throw equally well and consistently, or the defense will catch on and there will be no point to running the zone-read. To put it another way, running the ball is essential to throwing the ball. If we are going to compare Pryor to Young we must admit that Pryor cannot run the ball, and therefore cannot throw the ball in the zone-read.

I'll admit that I'm being harsh when it comes to the playing ability of Terrelle Pryor. He is a good quarterback, with a good set of feet and his performance in the Rose Bowl was stellar. Furthermore, Ohio State does not run the Zone Read offense as a primary aspect of the game, so to expect Pryor's stats to reflect that would be stupid. However, we are comparing Pryor to the greatest College Quarterback of all time. That is contentious in itself.

It has long been tradition that the Heisman is given to the player in college football who was both the best and represented a necessary element of a team's offense. That means that for someone to win the Heisman, if he didn't play for his team, his team's offense would lack a necessary element for success. We just can't say that of Pryor. If you look at the regular season games of Pryor before the Rose Bowl there is not much to speak of. For the last three games of division play Pryor passed for 285 yards on 51 attempts compared to his Rose Bowl performance of  266 yards on 37 attempts. Let's break this down. In 2009 Ohio State scored 385 points. In 2009 Pryor had 18 Passing Touchdowns and 7 Rushing Touchdowns. That totals 175 points for Pryor in 2009. That is a respectable number but represents only 45% of the team's scoring ability. This is a team where the Running Backs are scoring more than the Pre-Season Heisman contender. To make matters worse neither Brandon Saine nor Daniel Herron is even being considered for a Heisman trophy.

Looking at Young's 2004 stats we see a different story.  Young amassed 182 points which is similar to Pryor's stats and yet the statistics sheet shows us something different. With the exception of the Missouri game, whenever Young was good, the team was good, and whenever Young stumbled the team stumbled. Texas amassed 485 points in 2004 and Young amassed 26 Touchdowns with notable backfield partner, Cedric Benson. Benson amassed 1850 yards and 19 Touchdowns by himself, enough to earn himself the Doak Walker award for best running back. Young's ability increased because Benson left and there was a gap in the running game.  This shows what an elite Running Back can do to a team. In some ways having an elite running game, or running back can take away a quarterback's TDs and Yards. I'm not insulting Pryor's ability; I am merely stating that Young got a huge chance to shine because Benson moved on to the NFL in the previous draft and the backfield lacked the elite Running Back it had had the year before. Since Ohio State has made no effort to lessen its focus upon the run game, or put more focus upon the passing game, it seems that Pryor's stats will not skyrocket like Young's did.

To conclude, Terrelle Pryor has little chance of winning the Heisman given the information we have right now. Everyone thinks he will be the next Vince Young, but all we have to go on are his stat sheets and the similarities of their careers, e.g. the Rose Bowl MVP spot at the end of their Sophomore years. However, Pryor does not run the Zone Read. Even if he did, his YPG show that he does not have the elite Vision or Athleticism to be able to break away with the big run. If he cannot break away with the big run no one will take his Play Action very seriously and he won't have the ability to amass the amazing Passing and Rushing yards that Young had.  Furthermore it is evident to me that Jim Tressel is more focused upon winning a National Championship with a well balanced team than trying to prove that one of his players is an elite player deserving of a Heisman. I wish Pryor, Tressel and the entire team luck in winning the National Championship, but unless the entire dynamic of the team changes, Pryor should not and will not win a Heisman.

I'll conclude with some highlights of the Rose Bowls that "sky-rocketed" the careers of Young and Pryor. Is Pryor the next Young? You be the judge.

 

Texas Vs. Michigan 2005 Rose Bowl(04-05 season) (via Cbling713)

2010 Rose Bowl Highlights - Ohio State vs Oregon (via LeBrownsTown)

 

 

 

 

 

Poll
Will Terrelle Pryor win the Heisman?
Yes, and will be as great as Vince Young
7 votes
Yes, but will not even compare to Vince Young
33 votes
No
111 votes

151 votes | Poll has closed

All comments, FanPosts, and FanShots are the views of the reader-authors who create them.

Comment 33 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Comments

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Big Difference in Running

Heart. VY was a load to bring down – while Pryor often tackles himself by running out of bounds well in advance of contact.

by realmccoy on Jul 25, 2010 6:03 PM CDT reply actions  

Very Good Point

Most of the Highlights I’ve seen show VY with the ability to weave and cut through defenders like nobody’s business. Pryor doesn’t have that and that’s why he usually runs to the outside and is generally only able to eke out a First Down if he’s lucky

by NYHorn on Jul 25, 2010 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

this

Never ask a man if he's from Texas. If he is, he'll tell you soon enough. If he's not, don't embarrass him.

by LonghornEm on Jul 26, 2010 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

VY ran out of bounds a lot

But I always thought it was smart. He seemed to pick his spots and avoid taking those at-the-sideline hits as well. But yes, he definitely had a lot of yards after contact, while Pryor seems to rarely get them.

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

by burntorangehorn on Jul 25, 2010 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

so

your reasoning that Pryor won’t win the Heisman is that he isn’t as good as Vince Young?

The main problem with comparing Pryor and Young for their sophomore seasons is that Young had a secondary-threat in the backfield in Benson while Pryor didn’t have an equal comparison. If Beanie Wells had stayed and played his senior season, then you’d have a valid comparison.

by Beergut on Jul 25, 2010 9:18 PM CDT reply actions  

I just don't think Terrelle Pryor is all that good

Whether he is as good as Vince doesn’t really matter though it makes for interesting comparison. I think Pryor has shown he is an average QB up to this point with tremendous potential. I could see him having his Troy Smith year, though, and end up having the same pro career as him as well.

"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton

by CoachEtch on Jul 25, 2010 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have to agree

Comparing Pryor to VY has relatively no merit in a Heisman discussion, after all VY did not even win it himself. Pryor is competing against the rest of the eligible players from 2010 and that is who the comparisons should be made to.

by ryanlionrah on Jul 26, 2010 4:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

My Primary Reason

Is that everyone is comparing him to VY, and that comparison just doesn’t fit. Maybe he’ll find a way to put up those numbers but I doubt it. Furthermore Tressel isn’t focused on giving Pryor a Heisman he’s focused on winning a NC. He’ll focus more upon the running game with Brandon Saine.

by NYHorn on Jul 26, 2010 5:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Eh. I'm going to disagree with you here.

No doubt Cedric was a phenom at the running back position, but he wasn’t built for a zone read system. The duo of Jamaal Charles, and Romance Taylor were much better suited for running out of the shotgun. Charles in particular had amazing acceleration, and an uncanny ability to “plant and go”, a requirement for a zone running attack. Both also had the speed to threaten the edge, which makes things that much harder to defend. Cedric’s departure made the offense better.

by SuperHorn on Jul 26, 2010 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think it was clear very early on in Pryor's career

That he is not near the runner VY was. Vince was far more elusive and far better at “feeling” where the defense would be. That being said, Pryor is still a fantastic athlete, the best dual threat specimen in the game right now, and he can definitely win the Heisman, depending upon his competition that year. Just because a player is not as good as VY doesn’t mean he can’t win that popularity contest, because since I view VY as the best player I’ve ever seen, that would rule out pretty much everyone, including Colt McCoy and everybody’s favorite Tim Tebow.

by TheElusiveShadow on Jul 25, 2010 11:17 PM CDT reply actions  

Well that was sort of my point

I was being harsh, because the media was comparing Pryor to the greatest College Quarterback of all time. Pryor may be good, but he is no Vince Young

by NYHorn on Jul 26, 2010 5:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

pryor is a lesser version of troy smith

anyone who thinks hes gonna win the heisman is smoking crack. period

"We'll be baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!"

by greenspointexas on Jul 25, 2010 11:40 PM CDT reply actions  

Looking at the begining of the post

the big competition at this point is Ingram @ bama and maybe Moore at boise state. None of the others could be considered markedly superior to Pryor. I’m not endorsing him as my pick by any means, but I don’t think I need to get out the crack pipe either.

by soonerspeak on Jul 26, 2010 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm going to go out on a limb

And say that the winner of the Heisman this year will be somebody no one is currently talking about to any great extent, much like Bradford in ‘08 or Ingram in’09. Given the way the NCAA is going he’ll probably be a Sophomore, who has shown some flash of talent. Also he has to be on at least a top 5 team by the end of the year. Seriously Carson Palmer was the last player to win a Heisman who wasn’t on a NC team that year. If we try to pigeon hole people into this list, two players that come to mind are Dion Lewis from Pittsburgh and Trent Richardson from Alabama. I’m sure there are a few others that will pop up, and feel free to chime in on this. But the fact is it’s been 3 years since the Heisman committee actually picked an upperclassman to win the Heisman.

by NYHorn on Jul 26, 2010 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

You have a good point

Of course if no one comes to the forefront the Heisman committee could always award it to tebow as an honorarium for being the person he is.

by soonerspeak on Jul 26, 2010 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Tebow
Seriously Carson Palmer was the last player to win a Heisman who wasn’t on a NC team that year

Tebow was on a slightly-above-average Florida team that year—one that lost to a mediocre Michigan in its bowl game, IIRC.

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

by burntorangehorn on Jul 26, 2010 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

That year there wasn't any voting for anyone on the NC teams

I don’t know if they didn’t have any standout stars or what, but no one on the NC teams finished in the top 5 of the voting.

I think one of the NC teams had a guy who placed 9th.

So, it’s not like he beat out a NC team contender. There just wasn’t another viable candidate that year, and Tebow had been on the NC Gators the year before, I think.

by notsofst on Jul 26, 2010 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow that was stupid

For some stupid reason I assumed because Tebow won the Heisman the gators went to the NC that year. Now I remember it went NC, Heisman, NC

by NYHorn on Jul 26, 2010 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think McFadden was far more deserving than Tebow

But you’re right that there really wasn’t a strong Heisman candidate in the BCS championship game. Wells was the closest, with 1600yds. and 15TDs.

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

by burntorangehorn on Jul 26, 2010 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying he will win

but he has two, no actually three, big extra points already in his backpocket……

1) he plays for Ohio St
2) OSU’S toughest non-conference game is Miami. They also play Marshall, Eastern Michigan, and Ohio (all HOME games I might add). And then the Big 10 schedule isn’t bad at all. (PSU and Michigan go to Columbus; they play AT Iowa and WIsc).
3) The biggest bonus for Pryor is that Mr. Sweater Vest will play his usual conservative style – meaning, he won’t let Pryor throw the ball (INT’s). So Pryor’s stats will look outstanding because he won’t have the mistakes to drag him down.

Note I’m not trying to start a scheduling, non-conf. cupcakes, strength of schedule type debate. This is a post about Pryor winning the Heisman and with that in mind, my point was that OSU’s schedule sets up very favorably for Pryor (and subsequently, for the media to tell us just how great a leader he is).

Part II … I don’t think Sweater Vest has allowed or encouraged Pryor to throw the ball. What a waste. Pryor was the # 1 QB/athlete coming out of high school and I don’t think he has progressed all that much. If Pryor was allowed to throw the ball (throughout his career) he would/should be a much better thrower by this point. I know VY was criticized for his throwing, but he did actually progress and Mack allowed him to throw. Pryor’s throwing (accuracy mainly) is just horrible.

by Go Bevo on Jul 26, 2010 7:58 AM CDT reply actions  

I think your point about the media

is what is keeping him in this race. Again, he could fool me and become the power-hitter Ohio State needs, let’s see what Tressel decides to do with him next year.

by NYHorn on Jul 26, 2010 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Personally

I think his success is contingent upon Tressel loosening his reigns a bit, the way Mack Brown did for Vince Young after the loss to OU in 04. A lot of Pryor’s disappointment has been attributed to Tressel’s conservative style, or so the people in Columbus seem to believe.

by BrooklynHorn on Jul 26, 2010 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I posted something along these lines a while back in a heisman thread, Pryor is one of the real contenders

1. He plays on a team with a decent schedule, defense, and shot of going undefeated
2. He is a high profile offensive player on that team.

If tOSU goes undefeated, and Pryor’s QB stats are top 25 material, he’ll be in the top 3 for the heisman.

Of all the pre-season contenders, he’s really one of the most legitimate predictions.

by notsofst on Jul 26, 2010 11:53 AM CDT reply actions  

Agree, he could be a serious contender with a solid year.

Alabama had never had a Heisman winner until Ingram…hell, Auburn had one (Bo Jackson) before ‘Bama. There has only been one back-to-back winner, Archie Griffin, tOSU, 74-75. So the historic odds don’t favor Ingram or Richardson. Only two schools have won the Heisman in back-to-back years (now one, really): Army ‘45 (Doc Blanchard) and ’46 (Glen Davis) and USC ’04-’05. When it’s official, we can back-to-blank. heh

If Washington should beat BYU (there), Syracuse, Nebraska and then at USC – their schedule with a bye week before SC – then Locker will be one of the early favorites. I think the chances are slim of the Huskies winning all four but even being close would make Locker a serious contender.

by whills on Jul 26, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tough slate there for Locker

But I think you’re right. He’s already on the radar, and I know some feel he’s overrated, but I think he’s a strong consideration and very deserving of inclusion on any watch list. It’s hard to say which of those four games would be toughest, but I’m guessing Nebraska because of that front seven that should hold up well against the UW line. UW catches BYU at a very advantageous time, because the Cougars are replacing both Max Hall and Unga. It’s not that Mendenhall’s not going to have the team ready to play, but I just think it’s going to take a little time for the synergy to develop. Locker, Polk, and Kearse are set for synergy.

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

by burntorangehorn on Jul 26, 2010 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Minor disagreement
It is essential that the QB run and throw equally well and consistently, or the defense will catch on and there will be no point to running the zone-read.

RichRod, the alleged “Godfather of the zone read”, ran a powerful offense at West Virginia without much of a passing attack. In 2007, they were one loss away (Pittsburgh) from the MNC game and Pat only attempted 216 passes. For perspective, Josh Nesbitt threw 162 passes last year in Georgia Tech’s option attack.

by SuperHorn on Jul 26, 2010 4:03 PM CDT reply actions  

NY seems to think the zone-read functions as a triple-option

in that there is a give-keep-pass options inherent in the play, which is not accurate

there is a passing component off of play-action, like there is with any other offense, but it isn’t part of the read

any passing game would be off a pre-snap read of the secondary, or a play already called in by the coaches

RichRod was the creator of the zone read, and still his offense is successful enough that he doesn’t have to pass the ball much. If you’re having success running the ball down their throats, why go away from what is working? I also think RichRod recruits QBs for their running ability first/passing ability second, so he doesn’t emphasize the passing game as much as other coaches, like Chip Kelly.

by Beergut on Jul 27, 2010 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Uhuh and?

I’m still not getting your point. That is how the Zone-Read functioned with Texas. I.e. you could PA if you picked up the blitz. I get the point that that is not how it functions at every school. Yes I mistakenly said that the Quarterback had two options as if it were an option play. My bad

If that was confusing then I apologize. This was my first post, I’m just glad it has sparked so much heated debate.

by NYHorn on Jul 27, 2010 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

the point is that you don't have to be able to pass consistently well to run the zone-read in your offense

as Pat White and Vince Young in his sophomore year showed, you can be a so-so passer and still successfully run the zone-read

I was just pointing out that the passing game is off of play-action, the same as it is in I-formation, pro-set, wishbone, any other running offense.

I.e. you could PA if you picked up the blitz.

Not sure what you are talking about here. If you run play-action correctly, there is no blitz, because they are trying to stop the run.

by Beergut on Jul 28, 2010 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

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Small whills

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Small TheElusiveShadow

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Whataburger_small Hopkins Horn

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Peterson_small ElongatedHorn

Small Cat8