Reggie Bush Decides to Forfeit Heisman Trophy
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Sep 14, 2010 5:27 PM CDT
in News
Email
Print
With the Heisman Trust set to meet on Tuesday night to discuss the implications of the NCAA ruling against Reggie Bush and USC, the former Trojan running back decided to pre-emptively forfeit the award, certainly concerned that the Heisman Trust would not find in his favor. Bush is now the first player in the history of the award to voluntarily give up the trophy.
Bush vowed to set up a trust to educate collegiate athletes about dealing with agents to help them avoid the poor decisions made by Bush that have made him persona non grata on the USC campus and robbed him of his prestigious award.
The Heisman Trust is now faced with a difficult and unprecented decision -- will they simply vacate the award and leave it without a recipient or award to former Texas quarterback Vince Young, who finished a distant second in the voting to Bush?
Young weighed in on the issue in an interview with ESPN's Hannah Storm:
I definitely want it, I definitely want it. But he won it fair and square definitely, and it's much respect to Reggie, man. He had a great career and he's already won a Super Bowl before me. I'm already mad about that.
But at the same time I am definitely happy for him, man, and he is definitely the Heisman Trophy winner for that year. But if they send it over to me I am not going to say no to it.
Mack Brown previously came out in support of Young receiving the trophy several weeks ago when the news broke that the Heisman Trust was considering taking the trophy away from Bush.
From this perspective, any talk of the award quickly becomes irritating -- it's a stupid popularity contest reflective of little but poor analysis and a general herd mentality. For Texas fans, Young has always and always will be the Real Heisman winner from that season and his performance in the national championship proved that he was the better, more impactful player and allowed him to come away with the more important trophy -- the crystal football.
That being said, if the Heisman Trust does award the trophy the Young, the university would surely embrace the opportunity to include it in any and all promotional materials and the prestige of the trophy would help in a variety of areas, most notably recruiting.
Thoughts?
67 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
What if...
Bar Refaeli initially chose Leo DiCaprio over you. Found out he cheated on her, and then gave you a call. Would you accept the call? What would you do? What would you do!???
Assuming it was painfully obvious that she made a mistake in choosing Leo over me
I’d hang up the phone, and roll back over, and resume the pillow talk with Alisson Stokke.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Sep 14, 2010 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
If i can get her
Im really in a whole ’nother league. Im hanging up.
I think they should just leave it vacant...
As happy as I’d be for VY, he lost the vote by a pretty wide margin. Retroactively giving him the award because of the Bush mess just seems ungenuine. I believe VY deserved the award in 2005, but now, since that has passed, they should just leave it vacant as a warning to future star college players.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 14, 2010 5:36 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
I don't understand how it's any more of a warning if they leave it vacant.
It’s not like there will be an empty trophy case somewhere for high school kids to appreciate. There will probably just be an * in the record book either way.
in the records, itll be empty. when a kid...
…looks up to see who are the greats who won, he will see a yr without a winner and get curious and find out no winner is listed since the winner cheated and thus returned his heisman..
by vanterminatorhorn on Sep 14, 2010 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions
So you're saying that in 2025 some kid is going to be like - I wonder who won the heisman in 2005.
He’s then going to look through some sort of book and see that 2005 is not listed, and google it?
It seems like he would just google it in the first place and see all of the information about Reggie Bush giving it back anyway.
No, it's something that'll be repeated in Heisman conversations for years to come
The actual reference entry is insignificant compared to the dialogue in Heisman discussions in the media.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Sep 14, 2010 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions
and you think they won't discuss it if they end up reawarding the heisman for the first time ever?
by Texas Wahoo on Sep 14, 2010 9:11 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
It's far less odd and tarnished if there's simply another name in there
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Sep 14, 2010 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
I don’t see how a forfeited award with no new recipient would be any different than a forfeited award with a new recipient and ceremony held 5 years after the fact.
An oddity is attached to something as out-of-the-norm as a vacant year
Every single other year of the Heisman has a winner, and this one would not. That would make it a far bigger deal than simply changing the name.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Sep 15, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
I just don't see it being that much more odd or talked about.
Either way, people will say Reggie Bush won it and it was taken away.
by Texas Wahoo on Sep 15, 2010 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Some might
But everyone will have to admit that he cheated.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Sep 15, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Exactly my point.
Either way, everyone will have to admit that he cheated.
by Texas Wahoo on Sep 15, 2010 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
But the degree to which the point is reinforced is different
And I’d argue that the lone vacant Heisman would reinforce it more strongly.
Of course, our opinions don’t matter a bit. The only ones that matter are the tools in the Heisman trust who decided what to do next, and of course Vince’s opinion if they do decide to offer it to him. I’ll understand either way in both cases.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Sep 15, 2010 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
well not really...
…a kid might want to see a whole list of old heisman, see a vacant 2005 spot, google it and realize there is no Heisman there because it was returned because of rules being broken.
the point is that the future athletes will know that there are consequences of breaking rules…
by vanterminatorhorn on Sep 14, 2010 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I do respect the opinions that Vince should turn it down ...
… but I really don’t see that leaving the award vacant is going to “serve as a warning” to future student-athletes. The Reggie Bush Saga will do that just fine. If anything, it taints the Heisman more to leave it vacant. The Heisman Trust had nothing to do with Bush’s actions. They deserve an eligible & deserving recipient. In fact, I’d probably lose even more respect for the award if they did actually leave it vacant as a statement.
There are plenty of individual & team awards, worldwide, that set enough of a precedent already that would justify awarding the Heisman to the runner-up upon the eligibility disqualification of the winner. Seems like the only argument used against Vince getting it is out of bitterness & skepicism that it has become a “stupid popularity contest”. As far as whether Vince deserves it or not, his stats & leadership that year were phenomenal and very deserving, even prior to the NCG. I’d say the same thing if it also happened to Heupel (‘00), McCoy (’08), & Gerhart (‘09). All had deserving performances and it wouldn’t be fair to them either if the winner was determined ineligible.
It also astounds me that so many Longhorn fans are against VY receiving it. It would be great for the university, the player, the program, and the fans and should in no way be considered as tainted.
I was ambivalent
until I read that Vince wants the award. As far as I’m concerned, the only people who count in this are the Heisman Trust members and VY. If they decide to vacate the award, fine. If they decide to award it to Vince and he accepts it, that’s better. I’m sure some people would put an asterik beside his trophy, but we all know he earned it.
As far as a warning to future star players, I don’t think it would matter much. Whether its given to Vince or not, Bush still doesn’t have it. Those who are going to cheat will cheat. “I was going to take this money, but I might win the Heisman, and if I get caught I’ll have to give it back, so I guess I’ll play by the rules.” Really?
.
by Longhorn in Canada on Sep 14, 2010 5:54 PM CDT reply actions
On second thought
I don’t want VY to suffer from the Heisman Curse. While not quite as powerful as the Mack Brown Curse, it still seems that winning that award almost guarantees a mediocre NFL career. We wouldn’t want that.
For example, there were 2 QBs in the Rose Bowl that year. One won a Heisman (albeit for the previous year) and one didn’t. The one that didn’t leads the entire NFL in QB rating after the first week of the season. The one that did, well, I don’t seem to be able to finds his name on the list, for some reason.
.
by Longhorn in Canada on Sep 14, 2010 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Karma?
There are several other winners who have gone on to NFL greatness. More than most. I can think of two childhood heroes – - Roger Staubach and Tony Dorsett.
I know
the idea of a “Heisman Curse” is ridiculous. If the award was for the most likely to succeed at the next level, it might be considered a curse. As it is for the best college player, it makes sense that it is not always given to someone who is going to do well in the NFL.
Now, the “Mack Brown Curse”, on the other hand….,
.
by Longhorn in Canada on Sep 14, 2010 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions
John Brantley is loving his Mack Brown curse
As for NFL-talent influence, I think that’s a direction the award started taking following Charlie Ward’s win, which explains why Eddie George inexplicably beat Tommie Frazier, but I think it backed off pretty quickly, with guys like Ron Dayne, Joe Hamilton, Michael Bishop, Josh Heupel, and Eric Crouch all winning or doing better than they would have otherwise.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Sep 14, 2010 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Based solely on Week 1, he might be worried
John Brantley’s not really a candidate for the full blown MB Curse, as he just committed and decommitted. He didn’t try to screw us by changing hats at the last minute. He showed some class in changing his mind. The Curse is only for those who treat us like shit, and pick up a cap from LSU or Colorado, for example.
.
by Longhorn in Canada on Sep 14, 2010 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe Brantley just gets a short-lived dose
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Sep 14, 2010 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Michael Bishop never won it
his senior year, 1998, a longhorn won it
And Georgie deserved it over Frazier.
I'm aware of Bishops runner-uphood
But I’m saying he did better than he would have if the trend had been in the direction of the NFL talent rather than actual collegiate performance.
And no, Frazier most definitely deserved it over George. I wasn’t aware anyone except Buckeyes fans thought that George deserved it.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Sep 14, 2010 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions
And I assume you are aware that Joe Hamilton also did not win it
I mentioned him and Bishop because they were clearly not NFL prospects, but still managed to do well after several years of what seemed like NFL-centric Heisman voting.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Sep 14, 2010 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes.
It’s shouldn’t really be that complicated. When Olympic gold medalists are stripped of their medals for drug use or some other wrong doing, the silver medalists are given the gold and everyone else moves up a spot. Not sure why this shouldn’t be any different.
I can understand why you would leave a national championship vacant, because you’re talking about one ineligible player on a team of 50+. But this is an individual award and I think it is the right message to say not only are we going to take it away from you but we’re going to give to someone who played by the rules.
My 2 cents
I’m actually amazed at the number of Longhorn fans that DON’T want Vince to take a trophy. In this case, the Heisman committee has the opportunity to right an egregious wrong (highest Heisman differential EVER!). It was proven on the field of play that Young was more outstanding than Bush. This is clearly evident.
While the rules for who the Heisman should go to (i.e., the most “outstanding” player), there is a stipulated clause that does not. It’s been mentioned before, but the ballot clearly states:
“In order that there will be no misunderstanding regarding the eligibility of a candidate, the recipient of the award MUST be a bona fide student of an accredited college or university including the United States Academies. The recipients must be in compliance with the bylaws defining an NCAA student athlete.”
Since Reggie Bush was ineligible during that period, his efforts on the field of play should not be considered, whether they were “outstanding” or not. Had Bush been caught prior to the Heisman voting, no one should have voted for him, or if there were votes for him, they would not have been counted. This is clearly evident.
Finally, regardless of whether people think Heisman voting is a sham or not, or if it is an NFL career-killer or not, or if watching it on ESPN is ridiculous or not, people still think of it. No one says, “well yeah, we had the Maxwell Trophy award winner that year!” Similarly, no one cares if you say “well yeah, we had a share of the Big 12 South title that year but technicalities stole away our shot at the national title!”
College football is measured on some basic tenants.
- Your record against your hated rivals.
- Conference championships.
- National championships.
- And like it or not, the damned Heisman. Notre Dame has 7 Heisman winners, Ohio State 7, USC
76, and OU 5. Texas has 2. It would be awesome to bump that to 3.
Will people chuckle a little bit and say, yeah he won a technicality? Sure.
Can we chuckle back and say he brought home a crystal football? Will there be another bronze statue in Bellmont and the Jumbotron? Can we forever say Vince Young, Heisman winner? Can we forever say Texas, 3 Heisman winners? Hell yes. I don’t know why we wouldn’t want that.
I don't always watch football, but when I do, I prefer Dos Achos. Stay thirsty, my friends.
by jc25 on Sep 14, 2010 6:00 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Only one reason
see my reply to my own post, above. ;.)
.
by Longhorn in Canada on Sep 14, 2010 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, and one other reason
I would like to not say 3 Heisman winners forever. But, you knew that.
.
by Longhorn in Canada on Sep 14, 2010 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions
VY on twitter
“Just heard about Reggies Heisman. Reg will continue to be the 2005 Award recipient and I will continue to be honored to have been in the 2005 Heisman campaign with such a talented athlete."
Superman is doing a bang-up job in how he's handling all of this ...
… and how he’s so humbly throwing professional respect Reggie’s way. He’s either wise beyond my already stratospheric appreciation of him … or he’s got a great PR person in his ear. Longhorn Nation is certainly blessed by the great ones who have manned the QB helm for our team in the past couple of decades.
Agree, VY is showing class
Whether it’s his idea or it was his idea to listen to a great PR person, it still shows class. We can continue to be proud of him.
.
by Longhorn in Canada on Sep 14, 2010 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions
It does not have to be this way...
Statistics from Bowl games are included when looking at a player’s overall performance during their college careers. It is a shame that the Heisman Committee chooses to ignore these games. For if they did not, Young very well could be holding today what is rightfully his.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." ~ Will Muschamp
"I always felt like, and I paid a price for it, that it didn't seem right for one guy to bring me down." ~ The Tyler Rose
"I'm Colt McCoy and I Am Second." ~ Colt McCoy
I agree that they should wait
Of course, we do count a National Championship that we won before the bowl games, that we would not have under the rules today.
.
by Longhorn in Canada on Sep 14, 2010 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Would be interesting
to know the age demographic of poll voters. My bet is the vote breaks at birth year of 1975.
Heisman Trust needs to think of the precedent
To me it is obvious that the eligible player with the most votes wins. If Bush wasn’t eligible, that means VY won it. Period.
What is the Heisman Trusts’ plan for future situations…..when their voters decide to vote for their favorite player although the player does not meet the eligibility requirements?
They should think about how they want to handle this situation and the precedent they want for future situations. If they leave it blank for 2005, they will have to do leave it blank if it ever happens again.
I don’t understand how anyone can condone Bush’s antics and clear NCAA violations and feel that should get the hollow victory of having robbed anyone from the rightful ownership of the trophy. He knew he cheated the whole time, and he tried to duck it for years and years.
might as well take the trophies away from all the sucky players that were awarded it. that includes everyone from Notre Dame, Gino Torretta, Eric Crouch, whoever won it over Warren Sapp and Randy Moss, etc. sad fact of the matter is that the award is a Bs award given to offensive players and rarely goes to the best college football player. the fact that people are arguing over an award from 5 years ago is ridiculous. leave it vacant
I don't understand rewarding Bush for being a good cheat for 5 years
Vacating it still implies it was Bush’s and I don’t think that is right. He cheated, he’s out. His ability to hide the cheating, because his school was complicit in it, is a poor argument for cheating the eligible player with the most votes.
Suh would like his Heisman from last year...
It is easily argued that Gerhardt had a better year than Ingram.
"Stats are for losers. I like winning games." ~ Will Muschamp
"I always felt like, and I paid a price for it, that it didn't seem right for one guy to bring me down." ~ The Tyler Rose
"I'm Colt McCoy and I Am Second." ~ Colt McCoy
by Mulliganville on Sep 14, 2010 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions
You're right
Paul Hornung, Tim Brown, Leon Hart, John Lattner, John Lujack – all terribly shitty players.
Never ask a man if he's from Texas. If he is, he'll tell you soon enough. If he's not, don't embarrass him.
I figure Pete Carroll would lug it across a stage, meet Vince there, and say, "Uh, my bad"
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Sep 14, 2010 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions
love it
Never ask a man if he's from Texas. If he is, he'll tell you soon enough. If he's not, don't embarrass him.
Vince not having a Heisman...
devalues the Heisman, not Vince.
If he wants it, then fine, but in my mind he doesn’t need it, since he does happen to be the very best college football player that ever walked the earth.
by Pflash on Sep 14, 2010 11:55 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
thats a good point
that award still is the heisman but they have ruined the tradition of being the best player.that award doesn’t mean diddly but everyone likes you
For those who really think that vacating the award will somehow "teach" younger players a lesson
Refer to PB’s fanshot above this post and look at their mock quote from Reggie Bush. The link is here if you’re too lazy to do that.
by TheElusiveShadow on Sep 15, 2010 1:46 AM CDT reply actions
I think it's funny, but what's it have to do with the argument about teaching a lesson?
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Sep 15, 2010 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Many people seem to be operating under the assumption that younger players will look at Bush
And think, “Dang, that’s horrible! I don’t ever want to do that!” when in fact Bush practically got away with everything unscathed save some public humiliation. There is nothing that the NCAA can do to him. The media seems to think that 25 years from now, kids will look back on the trophy’s history, look at a blank spot, and then ask their grandfather or father on his knee about it and then get a cautionary tale that sticks with them for life. There are a couple of problems with this:
1. Not only will most kids likely not care very much who won in 25 years, even if they did, they would still see very clearly what Bush did if they were so inclined to look it up. If they bothered to know that much about history, they would easily know the situation in 2005 between VY and Bush.
2. How is it a good lesson that if you do the right things and are legitimately eligible, some cheater can permanently take an award away from you?
There are others that I can list, but I’ll stop there. This whole “lesson” business seems more like wishful, romantic thinking than reality.
by TheElusiveShadow on Sep 15, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe I missed something
But has anyone suggested that they just vote again? It hasn’t been that long, and I’m sure most of the voters are still around. Hell, even if Reggie was still eligible, I’m 99% positive that Vince would win the revote by a mile.
Your Man In the Balkans
Just a trophy
Let’s not confuse the trophy with the performance of the player. With or without the Heisman, there is no question in my mind that VY was the best player in 2005. His performance stands on its own and that is his legacy, not some hunk of metal.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
Bush vowed to set up a trust to educate collegiate athletes about dealing with agents to help them avoid the poor decisions made by Bush that have made him persona non grata on the USC campus and robbed him of his prestigious award.
WHY DO I NOT BELIEVE YOU?
In March 2007, Helix High School seniors Brandon Fountain and Matt Cobb were presented a $10,000 scholarship from Bush to use for college.
“I think it’s always been in my heart, just a desire to be able to come back and give back to the high school I grew up in,” Bush said in 2007.
While Bush posed with them at Helix High and was credited for “giving back” to his former school, Fountain and Cobb were left with an empty promise and a scholarship with Bush’s name and without his assistance.
oh yeah.
by Displaced Longhorn on Sep 15, 2010 8:38 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
wtf
Never ask a man if he's from Texas. If he is, he'll tell you soon enough. If he's not, don't embarrass him.
Bush is a liar and cheat
That has been confirmed already, and I don’t see those colors changing now that he feels slighted by everyone. He is hardly a role model and I don’t believe or trust anything he says. The ban from all things USC is a great punishment. He should be kept away.
AWESOME
Never ask a man if he's from Texas. If he is, he'll tell you soon enough. If he's not, don't embarrass him.
I voted yes
that the Heisman trust should give it to Young, and then let Young decide whether he would like to accept it or vacate the award.
Yea, I was thinking the same
Heisman peeps should do the right thing and give it to Young, but Young should do the right thing and leave it vacated.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Burnt Orange Nation
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
