UCLA 34 Texas 12: Fire Greg Davis
by Peter Bean on Sep 27, 2010 11:01 AM CDT
in Texas Longhorns Football
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PrintI had several out-of-town friends come in this weekend for their first visit to Austin. We took them to our tailgate, where the other Andrew had made a brisket that literally melted in your mouth. The weather was beautiful. The company was delightful. Everything about the experience was sublime.
And yet still, before the game even kicked off, I had a pit in my stomach. "I've got a bad feeling about today," I warned my fellow tailgaters.
I was worried about letting UCLA hang around in a tight game. I didn't expect us to get completely humiliated.
So much for revenge.
"Football games are lost, not won."
I don't remember when exactly it was reported, and I'm not masochistic enough to re-watch the telecast to find out, but at some point early in the second half ABC's sideline reporter relayed that Mack Brown had told her that "football games are lost, not won."
Whenever it was, Texas was already trailing, and futily flailing, and in that comment I recognized the seed of the pit that had been in my stomach before the game. It perfectly captures Mack Brown -- both his successes and limitations.
The wonderful thing about Mack Brown is the way his long-term vision has allowed him to build the strongest, most stable program in the country. With Texas and all its resources, strengths, and opportunities, there's enormous value in being steady, avoiding mistakes, doing things the right way, and building up the machine. With football powerhouses, it might be apt to say, "Football programs are lost, not won." (Hi, USC.)
In terms of reviving and rebuilding the Texas program, I don't think anyone could have done it better than Mack Brown, and I wouldn't trade him for any coach in the country.
But there is a danger in that big picture vision leaking into the approach to a game, or a season. Mack Brown has battled it throughout his tenure at Texas, and while his list of weaknesses is a short one, this is the one at the top. It hasn't -- and won't -- tarnish his overall accomplishments as head of the program, but it has -- and so long as it persists continue to -- limit his opportunities to win titles.
Maybe not against Arkansas State, but where the talent disparity isn't totally overwhelming, football games are won, not lost. And if ever that was in doubt, Saturday made the case in point. We showed up and tried to manage an outcome. UCLA showed up and tried to win a game. We had a talent edge and home field. They got the victory.
It's the offense, stupid.
There are more than a few fans who are trying to characterize the defensive and offensive struggles as equivalent. To echo Scipio Tex: It's embarrassing.
I briefly considered whether it would be worthwhile to torture myself with a play-by-play breakdown of Saturday's debacle. For the defense, it probably would be, and we'd learn something about why we wore down on Saturday, why we're vulnerable against a big front that can and will try to wear us down with sustained rushing, and who made mistakes trying to defend UCLA's option game.
But for the offense? The exercise would be pointless, merely confirming what was perfectly obvious watching the game live. You don't need a play-by-play review to know why we're bad offensively, and there's nothing useful in learning about why any individual play sucked when the entire approach is disjointed, incoherent, and rudderless. You don't need to study the doomed march of Joseph Davis's brigade to understand why Pickett's Charge was a failure.
When I said that I was nervous about this game heading in, it was because it had become abundantly clear after three games that Mack Brown was approaching this season with the timidity that has come to characterize underwhelming seasons during his tenure. Playing not to lose, rather than win.
We've been treating Garrett Gilbert like some kind of impotent game manager, to his detriment and the team's. Sadly, a day after watching Greg Davis dink and dunk Gilbert into a wretched afternoon, I watched my Pittsburgh Steelers dismantle Tampa Bay with... Charlie Batch at starting quarterback. Charlie Batch!
Batch is 35 years old and hadn't started a football game since 2007. But rather than scrunch itself up into a pair of ladies undergarments to throw two-yard passes all game, the Steelers asked Batch to go out and make plays. To throw the ball down the field. To help them win the game. Batch was picked off twice, but he also connected for a pair of 40+ yard touchdown strikes to Mike Wallace.
The lesson is obvious, of course: you live with the mistakes your limited player makes while trying to make plays, but you still try to make plays. You still attack with a sense of purpose, and as though you understand the necessity of beating the defense. The one way to guarantee you're not going to make any plays is to be too afraid of making mistakes to try. At that point, you may well be better off running it three times and punting the ball.
The approach to this season on offense has been pathetic, but much worse it is familiar.
Harken back to what I wrote before this season:
But that is the story this year -- the offense. The narrative 2010 is about Greg Davis, Mack Brown, and offense. After 2008, Will Muschamp had developed a championship caliber defense, they have one again this year, and will for the foreseeable future. It is the offense that stalled last year, and it is the offense which must develop this year. And if we want to be grand about it, the success or failure of the endeavor will play a defining role in both Mack Brown and Greg Davis's legacies at Texas.
That's even more true than perhaps I realized. Mack Brown's willingness and ability to learn and grow from mistakes has been his most impressive quality, and in so many regards he has risen to the challenge. The only area where he has stood his ground has been with Greg Davis.
Mack Brown's earned the benefit of the doubt, and the decision is his to make. It's his own legacy, and at this point he can do with it as he pleases.
But I hope for his sake, for Gilbert's sake, and for ours, that this is the beginning of the end for our offensive coordinator. It's been a good run, with some unforgettable ups and too many maddening downs, but if Mack Brown wants to keep going for a few years yet, I truly hope he thinks about finishing his tenure with some new blood on offense. Mack depends on his assistants, and whatever Davis's contributions in making Mack Brown feel comfortable, he doesn't help Mack Brown be all he can be.
He deserves better. I hope he gets it.
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Mike leach is available
And probably hates Texas Tech more than Texas now…
i agree, with Leach as our OC, imagine how badass this team would be
even if we ran the Air Raid “system,” with our defense, we would not be stopped
New OC’s I want instead of Davis, in order:
Leach
Dana Holgorsen (OSU)
Sonny Cumbie (OC now at Houston)
Gus Malzahn (Aub)
Whoever the OC is at Boise State
"We'll be baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!"
by greenspointexas on Sep 27, 2010 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Malzahn would be great
He can craft a coherent and deceptive scheme that is difficult to prepare for or defend. Unfortunately, he’s probably topped out as an OC and would be looking for head coaching jobs.
What's a yoot?
how pissed would Auburn be.
…if we steal ANOTHER coordinator from them.
by vy til i die on Sep 27, 2010 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
meh
consider Auburn our personal farm-league.
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 27, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He has limitations, stubbornness, and sticks to ineffective techniques often
Just like Greg Davis, and just like all the other top offensive coordinators in the country. Malzahn could fall flat, just like anyone else could.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Sep 27, 2010 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Man I remember tossing up Malzahn as a potential replacement a few years ago
And I got absolutely lambasted.
Ha, it depends on the timing
I’ve done the same thing, at different times, with wildly different results.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Sep 27, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Online list of potential coach candidates
I just started a list. Submit your ideas here, so it will be ready by season-end, to give to MB, the Board, and major boosters!
I've said since last year
That if we had Leach as our OC and Muschamp(ion) as our DC, we’d win every game 70-0. This was before he even got fired from TCEH.
by ElMariachiLoco on Sep 27, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh dear God
Please do not let that come to pass.
On the other hand, given the resources of your program, I’m sure Deloss Dodds would build him a very nice concussion shed.
Greg Davis
I commented Saturday if, and I am sure they do, the coaches watch film of what they are rolling out on offense. They, unlike opposing coaches preparing for Texas certainly cannot laugh or fail to see with their own eyes that the entire concept of what they are trying to do, whatever that is, is stupid.
Eventually this will drive recruiting on the offensive side even further south.
Lambasting Davis is a waste of time because Mack will do nothing. Offer up another OL coach might be his only action. I question the WR coach and little Opie’s abilities to a point, but then rationalize that it is what they are being asked to do, or not do.
I
But we're so beyond blaming the OL
…I echo your pessimism. Is it really legitimate to question the WR coach and Major’s abilities or is Greg Davis micro-managing them into oblivion?
It's Mean to Wean
I blame Kennedy for a lot of the
Nonchalance and lack of execution at WR. Texas has seen some lazy, entitled players at WR over his time period. Cosby and Shipley were the exception, not the rule.
Major has basically a bare cupboard. I’m intrigued to see what he’ll do with a wunderkind talent like Brown.
thirtyand0: Great point about driving recruiting
This is precisely what happened after Fred Akers first 3-5 years as HC . . . his offenses were plain vanilla, he overalled his offensive coordinator on key downs, he played to manage games and win with defense and the kicking game. Opposing recruiters beat him over the head with it.
Akers’ uninspired offenses drove the top QBs and WRs to schools that don’t wear Orange (a lot of them to Crimson, and Maroon). That recruiting downturn put the program in a 15-year decline.
Akers was a good coach.
It’s amazing how much one dropped punt changes a coach’s legacy.
The only way Greg Davis leaves the Texas program...
is for him to retire. Davis has been with Mack for something like 17 years and I don’t see any changes there, especially mid-season. The OL coach like said above is probably the only real option for change on offense. Another thing to think about our RBs have been sub-par for two years or more so you have to question Major’s coaching at this position.
ATX
+1
GD leaves when Mack leaves – that is the terrible truth!
RBs don't have much to work with,
but I always found his appointment as RB coach a little odd.
I hate this offense. The scheme is just so insipid it turns my stomach to watch. For God’s sake, let the players play. Not only does this wretched scheme have them too tight and hamstrung to perform at the level they are capable, but every defense in the country is onto it. It simply does not work anymore. Why they refuse to accept that is beyond me.
Football is a beautiful game and it’s fun as hell to play. This offense doesn’t allow the players to enjoy the aspects that attracted them to the game in the first place. They need to let these guys use their God-given abilities and reintroduce the thrill of playing football at a high level instead of trying to shield them from self-destruction. There’s plenty of that happening already.
Disciplina Praesidium Civitatis.
by zamm on Sep 27, 2010 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Watching this team on offense
Is like watching the basketball team play last year. Nobody…ever…smiles. How the hell are you going to win a football game when you can’t even enjoy it enough to crack a single smile over the first four games of the season?
-1
If we lose 4+ games this season and the offense contuniues to struggle I would bet that Davis is gone. If we pull out of what looks to be a death spiral and lose only 2 – 3 games he most likely stays. If we lose 4+ someones head is going to roll…….its not gonna be MB and its definitely not gonna be Boom.
Vince Young = Greatness
No bowl game and I might agree.
Mack Brown will view it as one poor season out of 9 straight years of 10 wins or more.The only way Davis gets the boot IMO is if Texas doesn’t make a bowl game…now that would be disastrous.
ATX
Tired of Being a GD Apologist
Also… I’m tired of being a Greg Davis apologist.
I posted a couple of comments last week regarding the teams record over the past ten years and was roundly groin-kicked for the stats I threw up.
Bean is right in every point. It’s time for Davis to recognize and ride off into the burnt orange sunset. But who would assume the throne? Is Major ready?
It's Mean to Wean
Does it matter if Major is ready?
Could he really game-plan worse than GD? Don’t forget, as OC at Rice, Major set records there. Lots of them.
Watch out, I bite.
by EddieTheAlbinoSquirrel on Sep 27, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Why the hell not?
It’s impossible for the offense to be worse. Literally…freaking…impossible. Why not let somebody with some imagination, youth, vigor, and fire try his hand? Davis can be QB coach, though I’d rather have Major there too…
by GoHornsGo90 on Sep 27, 2010 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
even at Bama
he wasn’t near as inept as Davis
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 27, 2010 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
He's a 30-year old man.
I’m ready to roll the dice.
If Mack was after anything, it was Major’s ’98 offense and the key part of that was his aggression in going deep whenever he saw it was possible. He had one RB and two good receivers and an experienced TE. That was it.
That obviously went without saying.
He also ran 95% of the time, so there was little mystery; stop him or else.
The receivers were Wane McGarity and Kwami Cavil, the TE Derek Lewis. And Ricky Brown was a fine FB. McGarity would become the first Texas receiver to break 1,000 yards and he and Cavil would set new records for total yards for a receiving tandem. The defense was young and inexperienced, so the Horns had to make up for it with an aggressive defense.
...with an aggressive offense.
my keyboard has a problem writing ‘aggressive offense’ for some reason.
TRUE EXCEPT THAT...
With or without Ricky Williams, Major could turn a game around immediately with his arm, and did so on some memorable ocassions. He also had leadership abilities and a charisma that even Vince and Colt did not have. All from a guy with half as much athleticism, at most.
100% Agave Azul
Good cover. He was aggressive with whatever they gave him.
One of my favorite Major moments was the OU game after Ricky, ’99, when Major drove the Horns down for the winning TD and then beat his chest to the OU fans. Our first win over Stoops and the only one for a long time.
Sharing worked real well (no offense, Atownatx)
when Larry Mac Duff and Duane Akina were co-coord’s on defense in 2007.
At least its an alternative then what we have now...
which is an offense that ranks 77th out of 120. Creativity is lacking in the game plan I think Major could add that. This of course only works if egos can be put aside.
ATX
Where's the Heisman?
It appears that unless Greg Davis has a Heisman candidate in the backfield he simnply cannot coach and game plan.
How can time and again the receiver cut two yards before the first down marker and the QB throw two yards before the marker with no hope of picking up the first down? Inept playcalling the enitre game. Gilbert is looking more like a high school QB than he did against Alabama. The trouble is I think he has the talent to be a success and perhaps he will once he is a Heisman candidate.
I also agree tha tthe only way for Davis to leave is to retire. The last UCLA blowout brought about a coaching change and maybe Greg will become a highly paid consultant to The University next year.
The other side of that is that he has coached up a number of legitimate Heisman candidates
And helped put one over the top and behind the podium, trophy in hand.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Sep 27, 2010 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, I think ATX is right. For whatever reason, Mack won’t fire Greg Davis; he’ll have to retire on his own if there is to be a change.
+1
I said same thing before. The discussion at the tailgate after the game Saturday was uniform on this matter across the board. For some reason, Mack has such an intense loyalty for GD that he will not do the right thing. Not sure why he was willing to do it for the D but not the O.
Maybe a 7 or 8 win season will change this?
Greg Davis = James Longstreet?
Picket reached the Union lines and almost pulled it off. If Longstreet had followed orders and attacked when and how Lee told him, they might have broken the Federal line in the center. Longstreet’s timidity and poorly-committed downhill bayonet rushing attack cost the offense the win. In all fairness though, they had more historic success spreading the defenders out and letting Vince Young run the zone read at Chancellorsville.
Unfortunately, to complete the parallel, Stonewall Muschamp is going to grow a bitching beard and get shot by Blake Gideon.
What's a yoot?
by LongCat on Sep 27, 2010 11:30 AM CDT reply actions 5 recs
uhhhhhhh...
As someone with a beard, I whole-heartedly welcome a bearded Muschamp. Maybe he should grow a “victory” beard? Something like Johnny Damon did in the 2005 WS?
It's Mean to Wean
PB -
“I’ve got a bad feeling about today,”
I had the same feeling before the game.
Perfect candidate
Todd Dodge. He stands a very good chance of being fired at NTSU, where Bear Freakin’ Bryant would be hard pressed to win with the inadequate resources available. If you saw his SL Carroll teams, you know there is no better offensive mind than his. He is part of the family, as a former UT QB. He would welcome the chance to right his career with a solid coordinator job at a BCS school beef moving on to a HC job, ala many.
by nvrfrgt63 on Sep 27, 2010 11:39 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
+1
I grew up about a mile from southlake high (didn’t attend though) and watched a lot of their games when they were in dynasty mode a few years back before TD left. I think he still has a lot of things to learn at this level, but he would still be a great fit.
If you're so sure of what it ain't, how about telling us what it am!
and that so many defenses now know how to defend
Disciplina Praesidium Civitatis.
You mean like 9 times in 6 years?
We wouldn’t have lost yesterday if it weren’t for this misguided offensive change.
I expect/pray that this blunder of an offensive experiment is over beginning next week.
Not really fair.
When you don’t run a single route more than 6 yards (and you overload the weakside and don’t block on bubble screens), it’s incredibly easy for the defense to stuff the box and stop both. If we actually ran some routes to stretch the defense and make them pay for keying on the run game, our run game would magically get a lot better, inept offensive line notwithstanding.
This is a pattern with Greg Davis and/or Mack Brown. Every single time we get a new quarterback, they don’t allow them to actually do their job. Once we’ve taken a hard loss, they open it up, and our whole offense magically clicks into gear. It’s incredibly sad that we’ve had to go through this every. single. time… but we do.
Yeah
I’d prefer a multiple offense like TCU or Boise State. I could only imagine how good those offenses could be with the right talent (OU 2008 anybody?). If not, something like Stanford and Bama that pound the ball emphatically and perfectly set up the play action pass. Right now, though, I’ll take what I can get.
Come on, Mack will not do the right thing.
Does anyone REALLY think Mack will can GD? I firmly believe that GD will leave when Mack leaves and Mack will leave coordinated by Dodds leaving to become AD.
Fire GD
Get an NFL OC so the players will want to come here. Get one who understands OL play, will emphasize the run game and throw the ball down the field. Get a TE, RB, FB on the roster worth a dime and start recruiting big nasty linemen who want to destroy our opponents. Replace the SR lineman with Freshman, find a TE, FB and HB now and start mixing it up. Its embarrassing to even have to post that Texas doesnt have a run stopping DT, Will Muschamp, I hope that will be addressed when you are coach after this 6 opr 7 win distaster looming season.
Would rather have a college OC
The game is so much different and UT has zero problems with recruiting. Imagine how good we’d be if our OC or OL coach actually, like, helped recruit.
NFL coaches tend to struggle with their offenses in college because they are so “plain” and focused on keeping the game close and minimizing mistakes. College is about being able to crush people week in and week out, since the talent advantage is so much more drastic than the NFL.
McWhorter does help recruit.
He’s responsible for East Texas and not just OL. He was the point man for Jamarcus McFarland until he had a race relation question. Davis on the other hand I have no clue what he does in recruiting.
Sports is man's joke on God, You see, God says to man, 'I've created a universe where it seems like everything matters, where you'll have to grapple with life and death and in the end you'll die anyway, and it won't really matter.' So man says to God, 'Oh, yeah? Within your universe we're going to create a sub-universe called sports, one that absolutely doesn't matter, and we'll follow everything that happens in it as if it were life and death.'" - Sam Kellerman
This may be the worst attempt
at a play on words I have ever read.
"A lot of people look for the easy way to do anything, in swimming there is no easy way." - Eddie Reese
But why? Seriously, why?
Unfortunately, I agree that Mack won’t fire GD. It doesn’t matter how many reasons there are to do so … it’s not going to happen.
But I wish I understood why that was. It doesn’t make any sense. Mack seems to have such misplaced loyalty on this issue. Yet he’s an intelligent, sensitive man who makes hard decisions every day about personnel, scholarships, playing time, other coaches, etc.
Can anyone explain the psychology of this problem? Or the blackmail? Or whatever the hell it is?
Watch out, I bite.
by EddieTheAlbinoSquirrel on Sep 27, 2010 11:46 AM CDT reply actions
A few hypotheses
1) Mack and Greg are like brothers…i can imagine it’s hard to fire a brother, though I’ve never been in the situation myself
2) Greg is a “yes man” for Mack and is willing to transform the offense at Mack’s whim every year despite what he may feel is best. Mack likes to have a say in the offense with little push back from the offensive coordinator. Because GD has apparently no career aspirations beyond being the OC for Mack, he is the perfect fit because he’ll never put up too much of a fight or speak out against what Macks want. Or…
3) A combination of #1.
Point #2...
is a point I have tried to make several times on these threads. People repeatedly express puzzlement over the question of why Mack Brown, whom they admire, would seemingly allow blind loyalty and friendship to trump what is best for the program. What is best they see being firing an inept OC. Some have gone so far as to jokingly refer to Davis’ having “blackmail” material. To me, the most likely explanation is what you suggest in #2, namely that the OC is following Brown’s game plan, what you see coming from the OC is really Brown’s.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
I've always thought
the UT community’s anger over this issue is, if anything, under-stated. We’ve 50,000 students, hundreds of thousands of Alumni, and millions of fans, not to mention a tradition that echoes across the landscape of college football, and yet Mack weighs all of that against one man and decides his loyalty to the latter is stronger.
The Greg Davis phenomenon is so surreal to me.
Every week I watch in the neighborhood of 8 college football games, and I almost never see any team struggle as much on offense as we do. People will cite numbers to the contrary, but no other offense is as lacking in rhythm, looks as timid, disorganized, predictable, and no other offense is as inept on 3rd and 1 as we. Seriously, god help us if we ever face 3rd and 1.
Greg Davis is in the bottom 20 of OC’s and maintains his job at a top-5 program. This is Mack’s greatest insult to us, and frankly, we aren’t as outraged as we should be.
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 27, 2010 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Anectodal evidence FTW!
First of all, shouldn’t Greg at least share a little bit in that whole “top 5 program thing”? Maybe I’m alone here, but I suspect most would associate our identity as a team over the past 6 years as offensive, not defensive.
Second, I’m interested to hear who the other 19 coordinators are that you refer to.
The Greg Davis phenomenon is interesting to me as well. I’ve never seen such a polarizing figure that has been, statistically, so successful. The most interesting part is that it seems that among the fanbase he gets to shoulder all of the blame, but all of his success is just a product of him being at a winning program…
shouldn’t Greg at least share a little bit in that whole "top 5 program thing"?
No.
Maybe I’m alone here
It disturbs me to no end that you are not alone. I feel like we took a poll and found out that 30% of our population believes the sky is red.
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 27, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
So, it's just the recruits, then?
Have you watched LSU, Notre Dame, Miami, and Tennessee over the past 6 years?
As an aside
I’ve been comparing the Texas offense to the LSU for some part of the season (it comes from spending a few years in Louisiana). Between the two teams, I’m fairly comfortable saying the pieces exist for one quality offense.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Sep 27, 2010 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure
and none plays as timidly. Tennessee has personnel issues, but I’d damn sure trust them on 3rd and 2 more than our offense, Notre Dame is undergoing a complete overhaul, and Miami is a couple years removed from an overhaul, but they’re coming along fine and look quite a bit more comfortable offensively than we do at the moment.
LSU is certainly the most comparable. They’ve been terrible for years. I might even toss OU in that category this season. Their offense, aside from the FSU game, has looked pretty frustrated at times.
But then I watch Oregon, Auburn, TCU, Michigan, Ohio St., Boise St., Arkansas, Wisconsin (Wisconsin!), Oklahoma St., Utah, Stanford, Michigan St. (Michigan St.!), Alabama, Nebraska, etc. move the ball comfortably down the field, and I begin to consider the disparity in resources between most of those programs and ours, and then I think about Greg Davis, then I curl up in the fetal position and cry.
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 27, 2010 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
You're narrowing the sample size too much. Specifically, to just one year (this year).
Every program has down years, including Texas. When you look at the body of work over the last 5-6 years, we’ve been excellent, and consistently better than all these programs.
UCLA was awful. I was there. It’s the worst home loss I’ve experienced in some time. But, let’s not get out the pitchforks just yet. Greg Davis is an easy scapegoat, but his success with the past two quarterbacks buys him more “wiggle room” than just one loss.
Nearly all evidence against Davis is anecdotal. When you look at his body of work, it’s pretty freaking impressive. He’s frustrating at times, no doubt. Worth firing? No.
But, let’s not get out the pitchforks just yet
Seriously, are you for real? As if this is an entirely new concept that we’ve never before explored in this community. This is precisely what I heard people say in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2006, 2007…
I have detested nearly every minute of Greg Davis’ offense aside from 2005. As PB said, these problems were there last year as well.
This argument is ever so tired. Every year most of us are skeptical of GD’s offense, and we are told by those like yourself that he’s just fine, he’ll make the proper adjustments, he’s holding back for Oklahoma, or what have you. And every year everyone acts utterly surprised when nothing really changes, same problems, same lack of imagination, same horizontal passing game, same playing not to lose, nothing fixed in the running game (which has been the primary goal for about 4 consecutive offseasons).
And then the following season people like yourself act, yet again, as if this is the first we’re seeing of this. “Cut the guy some slack,” you say, and the process repeats. Nothing is fixed, everyone acts surprised, “Cut him some slack,” Repeat.
Jeez. What would it take for you to change your mind about this? I know people are stubborn, and hardly ever change their minds about anything at all, but exactly how bad would it have to get for you to concede that maybe Greg Davis is not one of the elite OC’s around?
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 27, 2010 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Re:
What would it take for you to change your mind about this?
An offense that was consistently outside the top 10.
So...
when you’re seeking a spouse or significant other, do you simply have them submit a resume and analyze the numbers?
Truly, do you really beam with pride watching a Greg Davis offense? Are the games intriguing to you, or do you just print out the stats-sheet and pin it to your wall?
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 27, 2010 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course the games are intriguing to me. And, you too.
That’s why we’re both here.
You can bet your ass that I’ve beamed with pride over the past 5 years. Sure, Davis is frustrating at times. But, the VY/Colt run offenses always had enough firepower to keep me interested, no matter what the deficit.
A stark contrast from Saturday, when I knew it was over going into the 4th quarter.
It’s not all about stats. But, without some concrete evidence, your argument is tenuous at best.
BrooklynHorn ...
… I think I love you. You state so well what I’ve tried to say many times. Continual under-performance is not OK.
Our talent level and our playing level never match up. Only those players with uber-freaky-talent (VY) have been able to succeed in spite of GD.
Watch out, I bite.
by EddieTheAlbinoSquirrel on Sep 28, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Something about...
“I think I love you,” paired with “watch out, I bite” has me all worked up…
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 28, 2010 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Ohio State and Wisconsin dropped 70 over the past weekend
We put up 12. On U-C-L-A. 3 of which were because of the defense.
Sample size is true
But you could roll out the five worst defenses in the country. THE FIVE WORST in the entire freaking country. Give this offense a shot at all five of them. They couldn’t score 70 points. They couldn’t even get close.
I get that. I just don't think this is all on Greg.
It’s entirely possible (and in my mind, probable) that this whole power football idea came down from Mack. That’s the problem.
Bring Gus Malzahn in here and have Mack force a power running game down his throat. I expect you won’t see much different results.
I see where you're coming from
And I COMPLETELY agree they are both to blame. But Mack is never going to get “fired.” I guess you could argue Davis isn’t either, but we are talking mainly about whom to blame.
FWIW, I talked with Dan Neil when I was in high school doing spotting work for my team. He said Davis is a bright guy and a good OC, but Mack holds him back and loves to be conservative.
I’m sure it’s not just one side or the other, but somewhere in the middle. I know it’s hard for Davis when he has to constantly adjust to different styles, but that IS THE JOB of the OC. He gets paid a ton of money to do that job. The most mind-boggling thing to me are some of the play calls. I don’t think Mack has much control over those (by this I mean he doesn’t control them, not that he COULDN’T control them if he were inclined to), so it’s hard to fault him for it. For instance the randomness with which we employ screen passes and trick plays such as reverses just makes no sense at all.
Yup. I agree with all this.
And, I’m not giving Davis a pass. UCLA was AWFUL.
My point is that if you really, objectively look at the body of work and then take a look at the alternatives that a changing of the guard could be a slippery slope…
By the way
I admire you for basically arguing with everybody else in this thread who wants GD gone. It takes balls and not many have the fortitude to do it objectively, as opposed to just flinging insults left and right. We may disagree, but that doesn’t mean either side is unreasonable or stupid.
Hopkins...
In case you were wondering to which attitude (and thus, to which motivation) I was referring…
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 27, 2010 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I offended
HH on another thread when I suggested that the typical GD supporter is likely arguing with a chip of social responsibility on his shoulder, playing devil’s advocate, if you will, and not allowing an angry mob to gang up on one man, as opposed to restricting one’s motivations solely to an analysis of what it is that Coach Davis actually does on the field.
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 27, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
But did you see those 9? They were impressive. Houston’s offense only scored 13 (don’t tell anyone that 10 were with their 3rd string qb).
perhaps...
the main difference being that we are talking about primarily TX recruits, i.e. where we historically get 90%+ of our peeps. the quality is a big factor in making GD look much better than he is…
I've got to elaborate.
From cfbstats.com:
Over the past 5 years (2005-2009), here’s how we’ve ranked in scoring offense:
1st, 5th, 14th, 5th, and 3rd. And, you’re going to tell me that all of this is in spite of the offensive coordinator? I mean this in the most respectful way but, do you understand how ignorant and unreasonable that sounds?
No other team in football was in the NCAA was in the top 5 for 4 of the past 5 years. None.
Not many schools had the talents of Colt McCoy and Vince YOung.
Their ability to improvise on dead plays was ridiculously elite. They made something out of nothing so many times.
"Football's so important in Texas. On the West Coast, it's a social. On the East Coast, it's a culture. Here, it's a religion."
-- Major Applewhite
by Sunkist on Sep 27, 2010 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
But, I guess Davis gets none of the credit for developing said QB's and designing offenses to fit their skill sets?
And, people forget that McCoy was a 3 star quarterback out of high school. Again, it’s all the blame and none of the glory.
As for the QB talent level, I think you should go back and look at the QB ratings for the programs above, especially Notre Dame.
Not only does Davis seem to get none of the credit...
for the development of Young and McCoy, their abilities are ironically used against him. Again and again in these threads, Davis-detractors assert that his ineptness has been masked by the ability or Young and McCoy to ad lib and “bail” Davis out. Well, if so, they “bailed out” Brown at the same time. Brown’s record would not have been as impressive without Young and McCoy either.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
Yup.
It also is dismissed that they were put in a system that allowed them to ad lib a bit. Something that is limited in the latest offensive overhaul.
Davis is great at custom tailoring an offense to suit a great player
I’m not sure anyone can really deny this. What is equally apparent (to me at least) is that he can’t create on offense without a great player to build on or make a systemically coherent offense that will maximize a stable of good (but not great) players.
I’d imagine that he’d have done wonders maximizing Pryor’s potential at Ohio State, but wouldn’t do much with a talented but not stellar group at TCU or Iowa.
What's a yoot?
This one's my favorite red herring
Right, he “develops” them by coddling them and teaching them that throws beyond the 1st down marker are too dangerous and should not be attempted even by the most competent of QB’s. He teaches them to fear interceptions and he turns them into head-cases, unless of course the play breaks down and they revert to natural instinct, ignoring the cerebral processes with which their coach has poisoned them. Please show me proof of this development.
He did great with Simms and Mock, and he’s doing a stellar job of fine-tuning the talents of the best HS QB prospect in the nation from 2 years ago.
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 27, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Re:
Please show me proof of this development.
holds school records in wins (45), completions (1,155), attempts (1,643), TD passes (112), passing yards (13,244), total offense (14,815), TDs responsible for (132), passer rating (155.0) and completion percentage (70.3%) … his single-season marks include TD passes (34), TDs responsible for (45), passing yards (3,859), most plays (596), completions (332), attempts (468) and completion percentage (76.7
But, I guess that’s just instinct, right? With a different OC, Colt goes for 80+% completion percentage…
Link
You left out an important number
52 starts.
And Colt and Vince are the only two QB’s who didn’t struggle at Texas (although I saw Colt struggle at times), and it is unlikely that Coach Davis had anything to do with Vince when he was at his best. So you have perhaps one QB you can make a case for.
Simms, Applewhite, Mock, and as pointed out below Chiles, and now Gilbert have all underperformed, looked uncomfortable doing so, and all had trouble getting into a rhythm.
This argument is ridiculous. Its a stock talking point for Davis apologists.
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 27, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
How can you call Chiles a failure? Should he have started over Colt? And, Gilbert? Don't you think it's a little early to make that statement?
The sign of a good coach is one that can evolve. So, while we’re in agreement about Simms and Mock, I think that’s far enough in the past that it’s less relevant than the most recent success.
But, so we’re on the same page, argument a) below is the ridiculous one, right?:
a) Over the past five years Greg Davis has fielded a top 5 offense 3 out of 5 years, so he shouldn’t be fired. And, in the process, he’s developed two excellent QBs.
b) Greg Davis should be fired, among other things, because of his inability to develop a sophomore within 4 games of starting, a back up quarterback, and three quarterbacks from 8+ years ago.
The point of bringing up the past QB's
is to refute your earlier implication that there is anything new going on here. These problems have been persistent for years.
Yes we’re 4 games into the season, but our running game has been horrible since Vince left, and we’ve now endured 4 consecutive Septembers in which we’re all absolutely shocked that the running game has not improved, each following an offseason in which, according to the coaches, the running game was the key emphasis.
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 27, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Ah. The elusive run game.
Here’s a simple question:
In 2008 and 2009, how many losses are a direct result of poor offensive coaching?
To account for some sampling bias
I took the liberty of further parsing that data into scoring-average rank, solely in games against ranked opponents. This gets iffier from a statistical perspective, in that there are only a few games in the sample, but coaches are typically judged on equally small samples sizes.
2009 – 32
2008- 4
2007 – 1
2006- 39
2005- 3
2004 – 10
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Sep 27, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
What a misguided stat
We played three ranked teams: OU, Tech, and ASU. Tech and ASU both had utterly terrible defenses, and OU’s that year was bad by their standards. I see why our stats were so good against ranked teams.
I'm not out to mislead
Just grabbing a handy “big-game” metric to account for some perception bias.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Sep 27, 2010 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Makes sense
I just think it was a bad year for that stat.
My initial reaction was, “How the hell did we succeed that much in 2007—that year was a disaster.”
It makes more sense seeing how few quality teams we played that season, despite all the struggles we had. That was a weird/depressing year and I can see similar results from this season. JC definitely saved a few of the games that season, especially the 200 yard miracle against Nebraska. Another instance of the coaches just leaving a guy alone and letting him be what he is instead of trying to control him.
This
is why I stated that people will cite numbers to the contrary. I’ve watched the games over this past decade, have you? Or do you simply monitor a statistical feed and cheer when the numbers are in accordance with your liking. Forming conclusions from raw data with no context or reference is, shall we say, dangerous.
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 27, 2010 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Re:
Forming conclusions from raw data with no context or reference is, shall we say, dangerous.
And forming conclusions that completely dismiss all raw data isn’t? There’s a middle ground here. If Davis is as bad as you make him out to be, there should be some empirical data to support your claims.
Superstar talent plays a role
You don’t seem to want to admit that. The talent disparity alone against practically 8 of our opponents per season is enough to score 35. Any OC in D1 football could take the Horns and get some kind of results. But the guy loses games for us every now and then, and nearly loses games quite often. And honestly, most offensive to me, he’s just ugly to watch. I simply don’t enjoy the games when our offense is characterized by a stale, lifeless, play-not-to-lose attitude.
Why risk having him on staff when we have the clout and the resources to have an elite OC? No apologist ever seems to want to answer that. So you don’t want to concede he’s in the bottom 20, you must at least concede he isn’t elite. Why retain a weak link?
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 27, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ugh. I'm not dismissing that at all.
See the point above. Over the past 5 years, (obviously) other schools have recruited top 10 talent. Yet, no other school has had our offensive success. Oklahoma benefits from the same talent disparity. So does USC. Yet, they haven’t had the same offensive firepower that we can consistently generate.
I’ll concede that Davis isn’t elite (top 5). I do think he’s top 10. And, I know that’s tough for you to swallow, but the data is there. Mack gets all the credit of this programs turnaround, but we’ve consistently been an offensive minded football team, which puts Davis right at the center of that turnaround.
I think people need to seriously consider how much this offense could suffer in his absence.
If you're watching this offense
and have been watching this offense, and you believe Greg Davis is a top-10 offensive Coordinator, than I say, respectfully, that we are at an impasse.
No hard feelings.
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 27, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
So, that's it.
You’re just going to take your ball and go home?
How is it that nearly every point I’ve posed that involves statistics just gets brushed aside as talent disparity, yet you get to bring up completely subjective/anecdotal evidence and it’s ridiculous that I disagree?
becasue
there are instances in life when statistics don’t tell the entire story, its true of sociology, its true of medicine, its true of football.
The British physicist Sir James Jeans once wrote a wonderful article involving the problems of philosophy. In it he described the necessity for data to be placed against what he calls a proper picture of the scenario. An example he cites is charting coordinates on a global map, each one being read to you while you are in an enclosed room knowing nothing of the realities abroad, His contention is that these coordinates are nonsensical if the one doing the charting does not realize the globe is round.
This sentiment was echoed a few years ago in an article the New Yorker published regarding the failures of the discipline of physics to move beyond expectations in the 20th Century. What the article essentially contended was that physicists are now mostly number crunchers, while the significant contributions in past generations had been made by visionaries, seers, not simply data collectors.
I’m not sure what you’re suggesting I do with your numbers. Shall I just ignore what I’ve watched for 12 years and assume that it merely seemed like the offense looks uninspired, played tight, looked flustered, ran the wrong plays at the wrong times, and had no rhythm? My eyes simply deceived me on every occasion?
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 27, 2010 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No. You are correct.
And, what gets lost in all this is that I’m with you on a lot of these issues. Greg Davis has been extremely frustrating at times. This year in particular I’ve been livid over this offensive change.
I just think that the past few years he’s been excellent, and our offense has consistently put us in a position to win football games. That continues to get dismissed, but, as fans, we are taking that for granted. You look at other “elite” programs and their “lows” are much lower than ours have been lately. It’s unfair to brush aside things like total offense, QB development, and win percentage, and then turn around and throw Davis under the bus for vanilla play calling.
Great discussion guys.
The preponderance of the small versus the accumulated record to date…how we live with imperfection and when do we make a decision, the human dilemma in a nutshell.
Perhaps a better course for my argument should be this:
Image that an OC can design an offense with the goal of collecting statistics (points per quarter, yards per play, etc.), while another OC can design an offense with the goal of winning games. The two are not necessarily the same goal.
I feel that Davis perceives that the two are one in the same. So much of the offense’s statistical success comes from conservative play-calling (which boosts things like completion percentages and total yardage), but that conservative approach can be corrosive to the team’s attitude and killer instinct when they find themselves facing adversity or need to convert in clutch situations.
I’m arguing that it is entirely possible to compile a truckload of statistics and still be shaky, unreliable offense, and that’s what I feel Davis has always put on the field most of these past 12 seasons
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 27, 2010 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn’t they say MB was 71-0 when they win the turnover battle and the explosive play battle – is that the result of playing for a statistic or to win games. they are correlated and inseparable.
Correlated
but not the same goal. When you confuse the two, we see what we saw on Saturday. My thinking is that the correlation works better the other way around.
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 27, 2010 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Playing not to lose...
I hate the “bubble pass,” the slow developing plays, and the 3-yard routes when we need 4 yards, as much as anybody. I think “playing not to lose” produced a timid, hesitant, fearful, boring, predictable, and ultimately losing offense. However, Brown during the UCLA game stated, “football games are lost, not won.” It sound like “playing not to lose” is Brown’s philosophy.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
by OBdoc on Sep 27, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't use scoring offense. It's a bad metric.
Use Yards / Play. Much better, it also distances special teams and defensive success from the offense.
Texas is ( current → 2005 ):
#82, #57, #13, #14, #21, #2
The truth is that this year and last year we have underperformed greatly.
I'll also add that however bad the offense was last year, it was still good enough to get us to the MNC.
And, IMO, put is in a good position to win it if Colt stays healthy (a different argument altogether, and not one worth exploring here).
If that’s a “down year”, I can deal with it.
We survived very close scrapes against NU and OU due to our defense last year
The offense did its job and saved the defense for 1 game, against A&M.
I still believe that we can get pretty high this year on the back of the defense, but that’s not the point.
Our offense last year was bad.
This is the type of failed logic that Mack uses when speaking to the press
and it’s this same failed logic that keeps Davis “in office” in my opinion.
It also helps when your Boom-led D is keeping that Offense on the field...
…or bailing them out of bad situations.
Mack won't fire him
If he would then he would’ve already done it a long time ago. We are stuck with Greg Davis as long as Mack is there. Mack should make GD the QB coach and hire a new OC.
I believe we've had this exchange before, but ...
GD is the QB coach. And he sux at it. So that won’t work.
Watch out, I bite.
by EddieTheAlbinoSquirrel on Sep 27, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Uh, kidding about what?
Seriously? He’s good at it! Pshaw!
A good QB coach knows how to call plays for his quarterback. A good QB coach would NEVER have lost a game with VY at the helm, because he wouldn’t have tried to shove the wrong scheme down his throat until called off by the HC. A good QB coach would have adequately leveraged Applewhite and Simms, and called the right plays for each . A good QB coach would have helped Colt pass downfield.
A good QB coach wouldn’t have a sophomore starter telegraphing his throws. A good QB coach wouldn’t have QBs who can’t go through progressions. A good QB coach wouldn’t simply train his QBs to throw short-yardage passes that are 2-3 yards short of the first-down marker consistently, rather than looking to move the chains.
Where am I wrong?
Watch out, I bite.
by EddieTheAlbinoSquirrel on Sep 27, 2010 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Re:
I guess what gets dismissed in all this is that Vince was turned from a raw product who many wanted to play WR into arguably the best QB in CFB history. And, he turned a 3 star recruit in Colt into the winningest and most accurate quarterback in CFB history.
I think you should re adjust your expectations if you think we deserve more out of your positional coaches.
There are so many valid reasons to flay Greg Davis, why pick out one of the few things that he does very well?
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Sep 27, 2010 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
QB coach/Off. Coor.
take away the /Off. Coor. part and some $$$.
Nice work PB
and i think its worth noting how DOMINANT our Defense was for the first 15 minutes of this game…but the offense & ST kept sending them back out there on almost zero rest…its no wonder they wore down by the 2nd half.
<All Hail Major Applewhite>
What has become clear about GD
is that he’s an excellent OC when he has a start to rely on and a crappy one when he doesn’t. There is no clear star on offense this year for the first time in a long, long time. Now that he has adequate pieces in place but no clear cut star to deal out the touches to he is like a small child who wanders in to a movie and has no idea of the plot.
Mac McWhorter is a bigger firing candidate to me, though. Football is an evolving game. Those who evolve with it (Mack with VY during his redshirt frosh season, Joe Pa with the spread HD and playing freshman) last and those who don’t (Bobby Bowden) find their way out of a job,
I honestly think Major would make a great OC. I’d love to see it happen but GD isn’t gone until Mack steps down, too.
"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton
A question about "equivalency"
I’m not sure if my criticisms of the defensive effort on another thread are among those being termed as “embarrassing,” so I have a simple question:
Is it OK to criticize the defense and to point out that the defensive struggles began well before the TOP discrepancy took hold? And if so, can one make this critique without automatically being assumed that one is trying to create some sort of moral equivalence?
Would it have been better for me to have written something like “I didn’t think the defense played well BUT LEST ANYONE GET CONFUSED ABOUT ISSUES OF EQUIVALANCY THE OFFENSE PLAYED FAR FAR WORSE!”?
In other words, regardless of whether one agrees with my critique of the defense, can that criticism be addressed without confusing it with whatever I thought of the offense?
OK, that’s four simple questions. :)
Hungry Hippos, baby! It's on!
by Hopkins Horn on Sep 27, 2010 12:13 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Of course
There’s plenty to say about the defense, but it’s a different ball park than what we’re talking about with the offense. One got worn down and struggled in the second half with gap control, motion, and option reads. The other was, and has been, broken — start to finish.
You ain't hurt...
So where are these fans arguing for "equivalency"?
I’m sincerely curious. My time reviewing all the articles and comments out there has been shorter than normal due to travel-related connectivity issues, so can someone provide a link, or links, to anyone suggesting that the struggles of the offense and the defense were or are “equivalent”?
When I posted my original suggestion that the struggles of the defense on Saturday didn’t originate with TOP-related tiring, BH replied that there were all these people claiming “equivalency.”. It looks like you and ST are noticing all these people as well. Where are they?
Hungry Hippos, baby! It's on!
by Hopkins Horn on Sep 27, 2010 1:26 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Can you rephrase your question?
I don’t know what you are asking. I think it’s, “Do some people think the defense is as responsible/played as poorly as the offense.” Or, more exactly, “The defense was already lagging before they supposedly got tired?”
If those are the questions, I answer resoundingly that no, the defense played excellently before our own offense basically humped them into submission. Both mentally and physically.
worn down in every respect
very similar to the way they wore down against Alabama. I’m not sure there’s a college defense around that can take the kind of punishment our offense delivers to our defense.
"You've got to think lucky. If you fall into a mudhole, check your back pocket - you might have caught a fish" -- Darrell Royal
by SpiritOfTheFedora on Sep 27, 2010 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I've wanted Greg Davis gone for a long time, BUT...
…when you look at both our winning percentage and average margin of victory during Mack’s tenure, there’s no way that Mack (especially as a stats freak and a loyalist) fires Greg Davis anytime soon. Unless we show zero improvement this year it’s just not in his character, especially with the excuses/reasons of a new scheme, quarterback, WR corp, etc. It will take an absolute disaster (dropping OU, Nebraska, and possibly another) for Mack to make a change, in my opinion.
Mack’s a great recruiter. Mack’s a great organizer. Mack’s a great coach. Alas, he isn’t very proactive so much as reactionary. And now, he’s let Greg put Garrett in a horrible place in his development, all because of wanting to shelter him in first place.
Perhaps, hopefully Macks looks at more definitive stats
that the ones you referece. The NFL has some offensive efficiency metrics that would offer a far clearer picture of GD’s effectiveness. I am planning a side project now to try and compare GD’s offensive efficiency versus a group of his peers. I have no idea what I’ll find.
They don't want to hear it
You will hear a litany of excuses (it’s not GD, we just “out talented” people etc).
PS,
Bama is a great example, supposedly GD “babied” GG. Odd, i seem to recall a slew (4 or 5) of dropped passes including a ball that if MW catches in the endzone (GG is being babbied by throwing a 30+ yard pass into the endzone????), the game most likely goes the other way.
In reality, the gameplan for the Bama game was outstanding.
Gameplan for the UCLA game wasn’t bad but we have a consistent problem, WRs who did a very poor job catching passes.
We’ve had 3 losses in 3 years.
2 common denominators.
dropped passes (a bunch of them)
and
Turnovers
You lose the turnover battle by 2, odds are you lose the game.
I bet you're one of those guys who kept repeating "But we're 3-0"!!! until the UCLA game, huh?
We bumbled our way to wins at Rice and Wyoming and we needed the Refs to cheat for us to win the Tech game. Face facts, this offense has been hilariously inept since the year started and it’s not going to get miraculously better next week, or the week after that. The only way this team wins another game is when we’re facing an inferior team with inferior athletes. This 2010 team doesn’t win games because of itself, it’s DESPITE of itself (thanks to a superior defense and just plain dumb luck).
In-VINCE-able.
by iamjackburton on Sep 27, 2010 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I hear what you're saying, but...
…as the OC it’s Greg Davis’ job to:
1) not put players out there that can’t run correct routes (i.e. to the chains)
2) not put players out there that consistently can’t catch (Greg Smith…and to a lesser extent Malcolm Williams)
3) come up with a cohesive plan of situation drives that lead to a building plan for each game, and then the season as a whole. So far, it sounds like a lot of people on this board
4) challenge the defense and not be so predictable and inept that he puts his players, and the team as a whole in jeopardy of losing.
Game plan vs improvisation
GDGD’s idea of a game plan involves running single back dives and/or bubble screens on 1st and 2nd down and throwing out of 4 wr sets on 3rd down. Very little imagination or deviation form this, regardless of what the defense is doing. 2nd half adjustments include adding reverses and slower developing runs into the mix once it’s been established that our OL can’t hold a block for more than a 2 count. See Gus Malzhan for creativity.
As said elsewhere, Colt and VY were successful in spite of GDGD’s game plans because of their ability to improvise when the play called went to complete shit. GG isn’t there yet, and it’s debatable whether or not he will ever be as good of a houdini impersonator as the 2 previous QBs.
On a sidenote
Malzahn’s machinations against a solid South Carolina team Saturday night were some of the best coaching I’ve ever seen. That dude is dialed IN to the game. And damn he knows how to use Cam Newton perfectly, not to mention the other players like Emory Blake, Mike Dyer, and Onterrio McCaleb, etc.
Best OC in college football.
As a side note, you can check out one of his old playbooks (among others) here. Really interesting stuff if you have the time.
Skeptic
I was leery when he followed/drug Mustain et al to Arkie. His ability to tailor his scheme around his talent, and for his opponents are awesome. He is creative, but not dangerous in his play calling.
GDGD has done an admirable job developing QBs. It’s his masochistic desire to “fight fair” that makes me crazy. It would be like invading Iraq in 90/91 without using our Air Force in order to let our “superior talent” win.
I've waited for this day for a long time
Welcome PB, to the Fire Greg Davis bandwagon. The circle is now complete.
by kriess on Sep 27, 2010 12:20 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Inexplicably
the most recent post on firegregdavis.com is from Dec 9 2009. That can’t hold for long.
by Magnificent Bastard on Sep 27, 2010 12:25 PM CDT reply actions
but we've logged another 32
signatures since saturday in the petition to have him replaced. There are few things more impotent than signing online petitions because you’re buttsore after your team loses…..one of those few things is a Greg Davis led offense.
by jgard75 on Sep 27, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just mailed a letter to Dodds about firing Davis
The impotent rage was well worth price of a stamp.
What's a yoot?
Take over
Time for coach Boom? sure it wont be till next year, but if GD wont go till Mack does……I hate to say it but I would rather have coach Boom at the helm then Mack with GD as the OC. Coach Boom probably goes to Georgia next year anyway if he doesent take over here.
by horninraidercountry on Sep 27, 2010 12:40 PM CDT reply actions
Stupid Georgia....
I really wish they would start winning so they won’tt try to lure Muschamp away.
by LonghorninRaiderland on Sep 27, 2010 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
The problem isn't Greg Davis, per say. It's Greg Davis trying to run a pro style offense.
The guy has been largely successful in a spread scheme.
In my mind, expecting success from him out of a pro style attack would be no different than asking Rich Rod to install Alabama’s offense at Michigan. It’s just not his strong suit.
I’d rather have an offensive identity like we had last year along with a glaring weakness at running the ball than to have no identity at all like we have right now. Put another way, I’d rather be one dimensional and elite in the passing game, than average at the pass and the run.
It is Greg Davis. If my boss told me to do something...
and I couldn’t do it after 9 months, I would be fired. In this case, Mack told GD to spend 9 months installing a successful pro-style scheme and he hasn’t done it. See you later Greg. Thanks for trying.
Now, this doesn’t mean Mack is free of blame. He should have known what GD is capable of. Once expectations are set in stone, as they were of GD, he should be held accountable. Through 4 games our offense has been terrible, I wonder how many games Greg will get.
The personnel isn't there, IMO.
Mack and Co. incorrectly associated an ineffective running game with the wrong scheme. When as it turns out, our offensive line men are just shitty blockers regardless of man or zone scheme.
Greg Davis shares in this blame too. No question. I just don’t think he shoulders the lion’s share. I think Mack was hell bent on better ball/clock control heading into this season. So much, that he just incessantly continued to pound that square peg in the round hole.
The real problem is that we’ve failed to successfully recruit elite lineman over the past 6 years. And, a lot of that’s on Mack.
Maybe the Oline recruiting is on Mack, maybe not
If I were Mack, I would definitely delegate that to my offensive staff for many many reasons:
1) It’s their players and they’ll have to coach them for 4 years.
2) I’m Mack Brown, and I don’t have the time to review film of every decent O-lineman in TX.
Mack probably has the final say, but I guarantee the brunt of the decision is delegated to GD and his staff.
Bingo
We can analyze this into oblivion but the bottom line is that you can’t have a cohesive offense when half of it is undermanned/undercoached. There may (seriously) be some FCS offensive lines better than ours. If we were to consistently average 4 ypc then none of this ever happened.
"You've got to think lucky. If you fall into a mudhole, check your back pocket - you might have caught a fish" -- Darrell Royal
by SpiritOfTheFedora on Sep 27, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Look how quickly UCLA figured out the pistol
They completely retooled their offense, admitted that they didn’t know how to do everything, questioned their assumptions and have a coherent system. They absolutely sucked the first few games while they figured it out, but by week four they’ve implemented a system while Texas is still calling random plays from the “Ask Corso” menu.
What's a yoot?
by LongCat on Sep 27, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
We were not an elite passing team last year
We had two elite seniors making things work for us. But we were schematically broken then, too.
You ain't hurt...
Disagree, somewhat.
Yes, we had issues. But, I also saw Gilbert have success in that system in the second half of the MNC against the best defense in football.
When you lose two players like Colt and Shipley, bumps in the road are to be expected. When you lose those sorts of players and make a whole sale offensive change, well, this is what can happen.
If we end up losing....
more than 4 games (GOD FORBID) you think Mack will have a choice on who gets fired?
by LonghorninRaiderland on Sep 27, 2010 12:59 PM CDT reply actions
Let me see if I understand
We are trying to install an offense we don’t have the personel for. Remind me again, who thinks this offense is the way to go? Oh yeah, Coach Boom but let’s push Mack out and replace him with Coach Boom cuz we might suck but he’ll yell at people on the sideline.
BTW, we’ve had 3 losses in 3 years.
Remind me again the common denomiator on offense in those games (forget the fact that 2 were not impressive D performances at all, remember, at TEXAS it’s only the offense that is blamed for anything)?
dropped passes
turnovers
And we’ll just ignore GG’s shortcomings, locking onto wrs and airmailing TD passes into the 3rd row of the band seats.
Oh yeah,
Somebody remind me how much actual talent we have on offense these days. Reality it’s pretty lame.
Yeah I know, it’s Longhorn land.
Just find somone to lynch.
The UT Offense
Mack and Company needs to stop forcing a philosophy and run what the players can do well. It’s time to stop forcing something that’s obviously not working (forcing the run). Maybe a running scheme like the pistol will work better, I notice that delayed draws seem to work well at times.
Greg Davis won't be fired or retire
McWhorter will be the fall guy. The reason is a simple one – Mack loves continuity. It is my belief that Muschamp will leave for a head coaching job after this season (Georgia) and Mack won’t fire Davis because you’d be left without a Def. or Off. Coordinator. Yikes, thats like starting from scratch and he’s too old for that. Now, if we lose 5 games all bets are off.
You're probably right
Old guys like Mack and Davis tend to stick together. That whole “loyalty” thing, which works great until Mack’s job is on the line, then watch how fast Davis goes. Right now, Mack can still keep his old buddy because the seat isn’t that hot YET. Wait until we get buried by OU and NEBRASKA, then count the days until Davis goes.
In-VINCE-able.
by iamjackburton on Sep 27, 2010 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
On the Scale of 1 to Awesome, This is Awesome + Infinity
I’ve always regarded Peter Bean to be the adult on BON lol. You know, the one with the clear head and stable fatherly knowledge when all of us children are bitching and moaning about this or that. So when even the Adult at the Table says Greg Davis should be let go, it’s like Daddy saying, “Yes, you were right all along, son”, and oh, how us children rejoice in the affirmation.
I think you have to REALLY watch college football week in and week out, every single week, for years, to fully realize just how old and tired Greg Davis’ playcalling is. It’s really stunning the difference between this offense and what goes on out there. I’m telling you, I wish we had lost that Texas Tech game, if just to kick start this move a week earlier, instead of waiting for the UCLA game, because we had no business winning the Tech game in the first place.
In-VINCE-able.
It looks as though the consensus is Mack won't fire GD
whether it’s needed or not, due to his loyalty to his coaches. Okay I get it that that’s Mack’s personality/character and is admirable. I am a little surprised that he hasn’t taken the bull by the longhorns and said “we need to do what it takes to win NOW from this point forward”. I fully expected to see Texas airing it out against UCLA in admission that the downhill running experiment had failed. Now it’s RRS time with NU to follow and the change in philosophy would need to be done in the teeth of the schedule. As bleak as that may sound, OU’s defense is nowhere good as anticipated. Big plays aplenty have been there almost every game. You have a buy before NU. The conference title is still attainable, but… Mack has give word to open the offense and play to win this year, not play to develop/win next year. I kinda hope they keep with the status quo, but I don’t expect it.
Why the fascination with Major?
I don’t get it. What has Major done to deserve the OC job? Where is his success? This isn’t a knock on Major, I just don’t know what his credentials are to give him that position.
I look at our RB’s since Major has been here and can’t find one good one. I’ll buy in to Major if anyone can realistically explain why he should be given that position. We can probably get any OC in the country, is Major even remotely close to being the best? If so, how? Not a flame, just a question.
Hell, I don't know if Major would do any better a job as OC, but ...
…he’s younger, and not completely set in his ways yet, and is probably willing to try newer things instead of calling the same exact plays for an entire half even if they aren’t working, or until we’re losing by 30, after which he breaks out his “throw vertical” playbook out of his fanny pack. At this point, I’ll take anyone with an inkling of creativity over Greg Davis’ “2 straight run up the butts of our linemen and a 2-yard screen when we need 5” brilliance.
In-VINCE-able.
by iamjackburton on Sep 27, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I love Major for what he did as a player at UT
and I also think he’s done an OK job teaching the RBs ball protection. But, I think to get this right, Mack needs to clean out the entire offensive staff…Sorry Major. Bye Bye Davis, Mcwhorter, Applewhite, and Kennedy. None of these coaches has done enough to keep his job at TX IMO.
What is Major supposed to have done
With a backfield of Whittaker, Johnson, Newton, McGee, and Hills, no WR blocking, a horrid offensive line, and a playcalling scheme that catered to a passing game that not only didn’t help the running game, but limited it by bringing more defenders closer to the line?
Well we're the underdog against OU.
We play better as the underdog, right? Let’s see what we have on Saturday.
We have to turn Gilbert loose right now.
"Football's so important in Texas. On the West Coast, it's a social. On the East Coast, it's a culture. Here, it's a religion."
-- Major Applewhite
This is a 4 loss team
Sorry to say this folks cause I know everyone wants a perfect season every year but this team had 2 mediocre performances leading into last week’s game, got walloped and then people are surprised by this? The way they are playing that won’t be the only loss of the season. They are gonna lose to Oklahoma, Nebraska and another late season loss like K-State.
No one is surprised.
Where did you get that impression? We’ve seen this coming from a mile away. Our frustration is that the coaching staff didn’t.
:) Please, you really don’t think the coaches saw this coming?? Contrary to what the all the armchairs here think these guys can see shit getting ready to blow up but what are they supposed to say?? “Well I know we’re 3-0 now but we’re gonna lose the next 3 games and probably a game or two later on in the season…” Of course not. They say things like “Well our offense still needs to improve but every week we’re getting better” and other bs the feed the press, the fanbase and the players. If a fan can see they suck you damn well know guys that spend 60-80 hours a week on this stuff know the real score but at the end of the day they have to protect their job first. This is a rebuilding year plain and simple but everyone gets their panties in a bunch when they start losing games.. Get used to it cause it’s gonna happen several more times this season..
I agree
Anybody who says they thought we would lose to UCLA in this fashion is just full of shit.
by GoHornsGo90 on Sep 28, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Well it goes back to the point PB was making earlier...
Mack Brown has built a steady program that produces 10+ wins for past 10 yrs. It wasn’t flashy (besides VY/Colt era) and was frustrating at times, but we won games and fans were generally happy with the outcome.
I think same goes for GD. He has produced steady, uninspiring offenses that performed relatively well in last 10 yrs.
I think GD can be fired this season (similar to Carl Reese remember our ole DC??) , but we will have to lose 4+ games similar fashion to last saturday’s loss…are we all willing/ready to go thru that kind of embarassment and mass fail this season? (basically tank the season..)
COACH BOOM BABY!!
I'll bring up something that still sticks in my craw.
After Bama KO’ed Colt, my instinct was to go after them immediately. Not sulk in shock or go easy but to immediately go for the throat and pop them in the mouth. On GG’s first play, they should have gone play action, with a simple run into the line like you’d expect in such a situation with a cold rookie QB, and then hit the long pass. No fuckee around. Hit those bastards in the mouth and go for the throat. And do it again if it failed. You go after the other team’s strength to protect your own weaknesses.
But nooooooooooooooooooooooooo, we putzed around for a quarter and a half playing it safe, sob sob sobbing in the closet upstairs. This was the state of mind I hate and this is what really sets off my fuse. Football is a world of aggression and when you go static, you get hurt, as a team and as a player. You don’t have to be over the top to do this. If you’re going to rope-a-dope it, you better be capable of delivering a knock-out punch with either hand.
That was a great opportunity to capitalize on their expectations and the coaching staff just didn’t see it for what it was.
by whills on Sep 27, 2010 2:56 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
This is what bothers me regarding the notion that GD develops QB's well
I’m unaware of what he did with QB’s at Carolina, but I think after he threw Simms into the fire and let him make some mistakes, Davis has been too paranoid with his QB’s. I’ve seen that attitude penetrate the QB’s thinking as well. I can’t for the life of me see how this is good QB development.
by BrooklynHorn on Sep 27, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I just don't see a plan for logical development plan.
This seems so backwards in many respects.
VY was about gone in a certain period here when people were calling for him to go to WR. Did he suddenly adapt to GG’s offense or did GG adapt and let VY run the offense from the seat of his pants doing what he had always done? In one case, you control, in the second you merely guide.
Now VY has adapted to Tennessee’s offense – almost full caretaker mode with little aggression, but he’s hitting the key passes most of the time. But I’m sure it’s eating his ass to do so; it’s contrary to every aggressive instinct he has. But he can pocket his $14 mil this year and go somewhere else, which wouldn’t surprise me a damn bit.
So, I’m sorta in never-never land myself, wanting the long term correction by Mack (if only in his own conservative mind and with GD) and knowing that chances are high that it won’t happen. If the results are good, we sorta have to live with this until it happens again. Right now, my fear factor for KSU has gone way up. My fear factor for UCLA was high before the summer but the hype wore me down…should have trusted my intuition. Neuheisal really needed this game for a lot of reasons that had nothing to do with Texas.
Kirk Bohls Tweet
Greg Davis sez Texas gameplanned its “side to side” passing offense to wear out UCLA. Didn’t work, did it? “No, it didn’t,” GD said.
Happy to learn GD is at least aware that there are passes other than 'side to side'
If you're so sure of what it ain't, how about telling us what it am!
Now that's just silly...
A horizontal passing attack that goes “3 and out” is not going to wear down the defense. All they have to do is key on the WR and hit them soon as they catch the ball. I would be interested to know whether Brown or Davis thought up that game plan. You are at home, with supposedly superior personnel. Why do you have to wear out your opponent?
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
Because.
We’re Texas. And, we’re going to have a f’ng power run game. Ball control is what’s important on offense. Not, imposing your will on another team and scoring points as quickly as possible. Nope. When the clock shows zero, we want our opponent to find that Texas controlled the clock for 33 minutes. That’s what’s really important.
(sigh)
I miss the spread.
Well, sweeps and wide running plays actually do that much better.
In the side-to-side plan, the DL doesn’t run that much. And if the plays are stopped quickly, even the LBs don’t have to go far.
If we were going long every third or fourth play, then I could see the logic. But we weren’t.
Normally you do the side-to-side to force teams horizontal so you can either throw mid or deep passes in the gaps and seams or you run against the spread out D. We did neither with much success. If the CBs/nickle gives you a lot of room, you take it like a run.
This plan is spread logic and we weren’t doing the spread, so…something is missing. .
Are you kidding...we're trying to wear out college defenses
we do realize that other schools go through strength & conditioning programs. What a terrible excuse.
General Ambrose Burnside's Crater
You don’t need to study the doomed march of Joseph Davis’s brigade to understand why Pickett’s Charge was a failure.
And you don’t have to study Burnside’s blinding arrogance in overestimating a bunch of coal miners from Pennsylvania.
After weeks of preparation, on July 30 the Federals exploded a mine in Maj. Gen. Ambrose E. Burnside’s IX Corps sector, blowing a gap in the Confederate defenses of Petersburg, Virginia. From this propitious beginning, everything deteriorated rapidly for the Union attackers. Unit after unit charged into and around the crater, where soldiers milled in confusion. Grant considered the assault “the saddest affair I have witnessed in the war.” The Confederates quickly recovered and launched several counterattacks led by Brig. Gen. William Mahone. The break was sealed off, and the Federals were repulsed with severe casualties. Brig. Gen. Edward Ferrero’s division of black soldiers was badly mauled. This may have been Grant’s best chance to end the Siege of Petersburg. Instead, the soldiers settled in for another eight months of trench warfare. Burnside was relieved of command for his role in the debacle.
I hope Mack discovers GD has lost his way before it is too late.
Online list of potential coach candidates
I just started a list. Let the chatter begin… Submit your ideas here, so it will be ready by season-end, to give to MB, the Board, and major boosters.
LET’S TAKE ACTION!
fire greg davis
How can Texas year in year out have one of the , supposedly, best recruiting classes in the country and look THAT pathetic against an unranked UCLA? Are the recruits overrated,(those offensive lineman look like and play like a bunch of baby “Hueys”) or is it the coaching. Could be both but I think it is more the coaching , in particular Greg Davis. Like my old high school coach , who happens to be the father of former Horns QB Marty Akins and the grandfather to Drew Brees, used to say, " All they did was fart, fumble and fall down. How can such good talent look that poor when I watch a team like Boise State that does not have any 3,4, or 5 star athletes go out in front of 35, 000 people and beat everybody.
We need Pederson the head coach or his OC.
Radar1511
by radar1511 on Sep 27, 2010 4:34 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Great season....
…we lost to UCLA, we’re probably going to get dismantled in Lincoln and drop AT LEAST one more game because of our Offensive ineptitude, Muschamp is going to go to Georgia, and Mack and Greg will take us right back to the Chris Simms days. Fantabulous.
Great management, Mack. Great management, indeed.
Why Major
I posed this question and the answers were because he’s not Greg Davis and he’s younger than Greg Davis and not set in his ways. There’s about 10,000 high school and college coaches that fit that description. This is not a flame on Applewhite, just asking what he has accomplished to give him that position. I think we can get just about any OC in the country. I want the best.
He set a ton of records as Rice's OC
And they had their best looking offense in decades. Just sayin’ …
Also, please recall, Major also called the offense in almost every game he played at Texas. So he already has experience as an OC.
Watch out, I bite.
by EddieTheAlbinoSquirrel on Sep 28, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Why isn't D. White starting yet?
He may not know the offense 100%, but at this point GG can just tell the ones who can catch to just go deep like at recess back in the days. Are the coaches waiting for two more losses to play the young guys?
He's playing
And Mike Davis is playing. But I don’t know if he’d be better than guys like Kirkendoll and Chiles. Not arguing either way, and certainly I think he should play more, but I don’t think starting him over Quise or Malcolm is a point a fan who hasn’t seen him play at all can make right now.
by GoHornsGo90 on Sep 27, 2010 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions
not much though
He plays but not very much. I think he is better but he doesnt know the offense as well. Kirkendoll is alright but Chiles is struggling.
Why isn't D. White starting yet?
He may not know the offense 100%, but at this point GG can just tell the ones who can catch to just go deep like at recess back in the days. Are the coaches waiting for two more losses to play the young guys?
Superhorn,
In your defense of G Davis, do you not consider the masking effect that Vince and Colt had with their ability to make something out of nothing or do you just not buy into that theory?
I do. I just think it's a it over stated, and certainly not worth firing the man over.
You should also consider that Davis could have a hand in coaching these players in how to react when a play breaks down.
for Colt I can agree somewhat...
…but you’re telling us that GD taught Vince how to “react”? VY would take off when the play wasn’t working, and made the play better. I can’t give GD credit for the instincts Vince had.
by vy til i die on Sep 27, 2010 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Greg Davis can't teach Vince Young to scramble for a 60 yard touchdown.
He can tell him when it’s wise to leave the pocket based on what the defense is giving him.
Also, Davis deserves more credit than he gets with Vince. Developing an athletic quarterback, and building a system around him is no small task. You see the problem all over the country. Sure, Vince is an exception given his physical gifts. However, it needs to at least be considered that Greg installed an offense that allowed Vince to improvise, when so many other systems wouldn’t. People forget that the zone read spread was virtually no existent outside of West Virginia at the time.
I'll give him credit for developing McCoy
But a gorilla could have made VY successful (you could argue one did). And it took Davis four years with him to do it. VY didn’t need anybody to tell him when to run. He knew when to run. Davis just had to step back and let him do his thing. Mack was the one who told him (as well as himself) to back off.
by GoHornsGo90 on Sep 28, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Couldn't disagree more.
But, maybe you haven’t watched enough Titans football.
I’ll concede that Vince didn’t need anyone to tell him to run. Putting him in an environment where he could do so is a different story altogether…
I watch the Titans every week, actually
They are my NFL team. What their coaches do is EXACTLY what Davis did with VY the first two years at UT. Forced him to sit in the pocket and try to be a normal QB and didn’t let him “run free,” so to speak. This is commonly accepted among UT fans. It’s not really a debatable point…
It’s true that VY’s passing improved his last year, but that has nothing to do with the running ability that I was talking about.
by GoHornsGo90 on Sep 28, 2010 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I will say this...
As for my main frustration with GD, and this may be equally/more attributable to Mack, I want to see more aggressive play calls. I get more mad at conservatism than anything. I think we are a fiery bunch as Texas fans and want to see more ballsy play calls and that just isn’t GD’s style for the most part. I think that might explain a lot of frustration with him. Just my misguided theory.
Playing not to lose is Brown's philosophy
Peter correctly referenced this q
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
Oops, try again...
Peter correctly referenced this quote but was unsure when it was stated. I went back to the videotape and this was just before the second half. The female sideline reporter addressed Brown, “Yesterday you told us that college games are lost and not won.” So this is not a cynical comment Brown made in the frustration of the game. It is his philosophy and leads to the tight, fearful, error-prone, and conservative play-calling people have been roasting Greg Davis for. GD, whether he agrees or not, is merely putting into play his boss’ philosophy. That is why Mack will not, and cannot fire GD, and why it probably won’t matter if he did.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
by OBdoc on Sep 28, 2010 7:52 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
You are correct on this, doc.
Mack likes execution, particularly that of the running game. It’s GD that likes the high flying circus. Sorta a ying-and-yang combo that has balanced itself for the most part, but obviously can get out of whack and become erratic.
That’s the core behind Jeff Fisher of the Titans…vanilla, caretaker offense, seldom aggressive, control the ball, score enough for a lead and make no turnovers is the mantra of the offense; let the defense do their job. Of course, Fisher was a safety as USC and prefers defensive game plans. Sweaterman and tOSU is much the same, just slightly more aggressive.
That’s why the ‘98 Applewhite model was so appealing to them after last season (I wrote about this in EoT): Mack would have the downhill running game while GD with have the big strike offense, a solid melding of both philosophies. But they couldn’t put together the package, for all the reasons revealed by UCLA. Good idea, horrid execution.
The real difference between the aggression in the attacks of VY and McCoy at their peaks was that VY went for big chunks and was a deadly cobra really to strike anytime, while Colt’s was death by a thousand cuts, with the occasional dagger carefully placed. Plus those 11 special team and defensive TDs gave the Horns a lot of help last year. Otherwise it was just an average year as far as scoring production was concerned.
Great post.
This pretty much sums up the situation. Can’t wait to see how the offense adapts this week.
It’s interesting that you bring Fisher up. I’ve been saying for a while that Fisher needs that “Mack Brown moment” where he just turns the keys over to Vince and sees what happens. Unlikely, but one can dream…
Thanks. There will come a day when Fisher needs VY the Cobra.
That will be interesting to see that day, Fisher’s reaction and if VY has any fangs left after Fisher’s serious fang-pulling.
Of course, this is the final year in VY’s contract, $14 mil worth, so any special display insures him a new home and more money in his pocket if he wants to stick to the pro game.
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