Our secondary looks shaky for 2011
At safety we have:
Blake Gideon
Christian Scott
Nolan Brewster
Kenny Vaccaro
At corner we have:
Adrian White
Carrington Byndom
Eryon Barnett
Adrian Phillips
Not listed - A few other guys who haven't seen snaps + incoming freshman
Gonna be some rough times back there for sure. Hope we can coach em up.
over 1 year ago
owenh
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excited for the basketball game tomorrow and
a nonexistent pass rush by the front four makes a solid secondary look bad (this past year)
a good pass rush can cover up for a lack of skill or experience back there.
I expect big things from Vaccaro next year, hopefully the coaching staff realizes Scott is a lost cause and give the younger guys the reps.
You can (groan) all you want but ...
… Gideon is the best player on that list. Yet another poor negative comment to single out a kid who represents the school well. A poorly-chosen critique to describe someone who is a favorite of the other players and a good performer on the field. Yeah, I get pretty sick of comments that unnecessarily single out one of my Longhorns.
Gideon gets singled out for a reason, and rightfully so
by goingforthecorner on Jan 8, 2011 2:42 AM CST up reply actions
You are exactly right
because he is white.
"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton
by CoachEtch on Jan 8, 2011 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sadly, this is true
There are instances where he has played poor, but who hasn’t? He’s been unnecessarily singled out far too many times. Overall, he’s been a solid contributer and has been recognized by coaches outside the Texas coaches as a solid contributer. And for every sad, pathetic argument of “he takes poor angles” etc etc etc, there are things I could point to where he has done well. Just let it freakin’ go. He’s a solid player and deserves far better treatment than getting shit on constantly by “fans”.
Nolan Brewster has mostly only played special teams
not many people pick on him for that.
"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton
It would be inaccurate to claim he only gets singled out because of his color.
Nolan Brewster doesn’t get singled out for his color.
"I live in the tower with Coach Brown." -Bevo
by run Bevo run on Jan 11, 2011 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
Only because he's very rarely been on the field, like most of the others on that list.
Gideon is always on the field and always in on the action. Forget ethnic background. Bottom line, performance & leadership are the only factors that should be open to criticism. It’s funny how everyone “hopes” all these other guys are good, even though they haven’t played much up to now. But Gideon is better than the rest, is on the field 100% of the time, performs well, and then gets criticized selectively for his few mistakes. You could pick out horrendous repeated mistakes by everyone in the secondary this year. It’s pretty lame to just pick out the one guy and think he’s bad for the team.
My point
wasn’t to make this all about Gideon’s race. It was, however, to say that for some people a white safety is an oxymoron. Stacking is a identifiable and documented phenomenon and while it may not apply to everyone it does to some. For instance, look at Shipley when going into the draft last year. Everyone was comparing him to Welker. Why? Because he’s another quick white receiver who plays in the slot. Same thing with Cam Newton. People compare him to VY but they are different players. I would most closely compare Cam Newton to Big Ben in style of play. That is just the world we live in. I’m not here to call anyone a bigot. Just to point out the obvious.
"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton
not really, it's actually because he's not very good; a weak link to the secondary
he’s the guy that talks smack while WRs run by him. He’s the guy that jumps on piles and acts like he accomplished something.
by goingforthecorner on Jan 8, 2011 10:03 PM CST up reply actions
He's not the weak link at all
And he’s the best safety Texas had in 2010, and quite possibly will be for 2011 as well. Criticize him if you want, but Muschamp was right in preferring him over Scott and Vaccaro.
The Passion of the Chryst
by burntorangehorn on Jan 8, 2011 10:45 PM CST up reply actions
Feel free
to post your objective evidence backing up your claims.
"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton
With what, advanced stats for safeties that don't even exist in CFB?
All the supporters can say about him is he’s a better option than so and so. Not exactly the best endorsement, and it says a lot about how poorly we have recruited that position recently.
by goingforthecorner on Jan 10, 2011 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
Sadly, you're right on the players Akina will have next season
I worry about early-season mistakes by the corners, but I think the athletic skill is good enough to be a Top 20-type team. Phillips was a safety this season, but I agree he needs to be at CB. Speed at safety makes me squirm. One of the incoming frosh — Turner or Evans — probably has to be a major contributor at corner.
At this point, I don’t see a team other than OU that’’s scary good at throwing it. Aggies, maybe. Tech is an unknown.
I'd add OK State to that list...
… if Weedon and Blackmon stay.
I say let's see what Diaz can do with 14 men on the field.
This situation might take care of itself.
I thought Adrian Phillis had flashes of good things last year... Now that he's got a year under his belt, I expect him to have a pretty good year
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
by mccoy12 on Jan 8, 2011 7:24 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Phillips... Not philis.. Damn I phone auto correct..
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
by mccoy12 on Jan 8, 2011 7:25 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Secondary least of my worries.
enough mix there…Byndom looks like another top flight DB and if Diggs goes on D, then we’re in great shape. I think the kid can play early and often. I think Phillips will have the breakout year though.
Agree with the pass rush…I think Diaz is a crazy man in a Jeff Fisher kind of way…if one blitz is good then 2 is better.
I think we'll be okay back there as long as we get pressure on the qb.
From the reports I read from Gerry Hamilton, Q. Diggs had a spectacular showing in the UA practices. I believe he had an interception in each practice session. I look for big things from him back there, perhaps as our nickel back. Also don’t forget Demarco Cobbs, I think we’ll see him back there and Bryant Jackson, this kid is going to be our next ET.
Sports is man's joke on God, You see, God says to man, 'I've created a universe where it seems like everything matters, where you'll have to grapple with life and death and in the end you'll die anyway, and it won't really matter.' So man says to God, 'Oh, yeah? Within your universe we're going to create a sub-universe called sports, one that absolutely doesn't matter, and we'll follow everything that happens in it as if it were life and death.'" - Sam Kellerman
battle it out in camp
that is what it is for. the best players will play. especially with a new DC who isn’t familiar with anyone.
Who are you?!
I'm Kick Ass!
How do you groan
about having a 4 year starter in your secondary? I just don’t get it.
"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton
He's just not very good, Uh, I'm mean, cause he's white
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs -- ask yourself what makes you come alive, and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
-- Harold Thurman
He was good enough to start as a freshman for Texas
and maintain his job through his 4 years against a guy like Christian Scott who started this year but couldn’t beat out a poor little sister like Gideon. Oh, I forgot to mention he was christened a starter by arguably the best secondary coach in the country.
"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton
your counter point to prove he is very good is that he is better than C. Scott?
the whole point of this fanshot is that we need better talent at safety(secondary). period. regardless of color.
you also forgot to mention that Akina has to play someone. if your best argument is that Gideon is the best of the mediocre. congrats!
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs -- ask yourself what makes you come alive, and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
-- Harold Thurman
The point of the thread is that things look shaky
which refers to a lack of depth or continuity. It seems the main point of your initial post wast to mock a well documented sociological aspect of sport called stacking. You can look here to learn more about stacking. Gideon has been an honorable mention all Big 12 twice and was a Freshman All-American too. If you asked any Longhorn follower that they are going to get a safety that will start all 4 years and garner post season accolades every single year they would be all over it. However, since he is a white guy playing safety, he’s slow, or not a play maker. I look forward to hearing your point on how he is mediocre and not among the best safeties in the conference as he has been voted every year of his career.
"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton
Etch is right.
The original post was that the 2011 secondary will be shaky, which is true, but it also singled out a good player with an unnecessarily negative comment. I don’t really think the original poster meant much by it but it’s obviously touched a nerve with a few of us that recognize his good performance year-in & year-out.
The secondary next year will certainly be young & inexperienced but Gideon will be the LEAST of any problems back there. If anything, he will keep them together with his leadership, intelligence, and solid play on the field which has been appreciated by peers, coaches, and opponents throughout the conference. He’s certainly not the fastest DB or the best tackler we’ve had in recent years – but it’s ridiculous that he always gets singled out for criticism when safeties Vaccaro & Scott both have worse performance issues than does Gideon. And the cornerback situation is even much worse than that with so many of these guys unproven, as of yet. Bottom line, when you have a main point of saying that the 2011 secondary is going to be shaky, it’s kinda ridiculous to find fault in, easily, the best secondary performer out of the whole group. He not only compares favorably to the rest of his secondary teammates next year, he also is a top performer in the conference and has won numerous to verify that fact.
Well, that settles it. Etch is right. Thanks.
Etch, you haven’t offered any proof that he is above average. Instead, you offer stacking as reason why people cant see his greatness. Or, that he made honorable mention since he has started. Or, my favorite btw, that he is starting over others.
Kyle Hix was honorable mention in the past as well. Chris hall was 2nd team.
Like him or don’t. Just dont tell people that their observations don’t count because you subscribe to stacking.
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs -- ask yourself what makes you come alive, and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
-- Harold Thurman
I'm not telling you your observation doesn't count
I’m telling you that your observations are misguided. Also, I find it funny that you are attacking my method of proving my point when I have asked you three times to show your objective proof as to why he is not good and you have yet to do so.
Were Kyle Hix and Chris Hall 2nd team or Honorable mention every year of their career?
Yes, Gideon started over others. That means he was better than those he started over. Its not like the cupboard was bare when he became a starter as Deon Beasely was highly recruited and on the team in 2008,Ishie Odewegu was there (though in all fairness he was injured) as well as Christian Scott and the newly and much more highly recruited Nolan Brewster. He beat out quite a lot of people for him to be so awful.
Also, you don’t have to subscribe to stacking. It is well documented.
You can have your opinion on Gideon just like anyone else. You should just try to get one that includes some sort of objective analysis. Not based off of one dropped interception 3 years ago.
"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton
Wow, so not only am i unable to see Gideon as an elite player
since he is white, I also hold an interception I never mentioned as a reason why I think he is mediocre. As anyone can see, you are well versed in assumption and missing in fact. please continue to have this “discourse” on your own since you have all based covered.
And to think you are an actual coach. Amazing.
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs -- ask yourself what makes you come alive, and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
-- Harold Thurman
I have a hard time understanding
why your panties are in such a twist. If you can’t have discourse without getting all worked up like you are then you must be pretty miserable.
The dropped interception comment was more of a general statement but since you personalized it that says about all I need to know.
Actually, I believe that me being a coach lends to my ability to objectively appraise a players value. What exactly does your profession lend to your opinion on the matter, again?
"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton
Thank goodness Shipley was African American or we would have criticized him...
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs -- ask yourself what makes you come alive, and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
-- Harold Thurman
I think Philips will be great and the next Earl Thomas...
I would like to see Adrian Philips start at FS in a 4-3 then play nickelback when we have 5 db’s on the field. I like Gideon and Scott playing safety in nickel and dime sets. Vaccaro needs to get a look at CB. He can be like Cortland Finnegan and be physical and nasty. Diggs and Josh Turner will get playing time at corner, but I think starting Vaccaro and Byndom at CB with Philips and Scott at safety is the ticket.
by IAMLOVELLPINKNEY on Jan 8, 2011 4:07 PM CST reply actions
Don't understand this logic.
…but I think starting Vaccaro and Byndom at CB with Philips and Scott at safety is the ticket.
1. Vaccaro is currently a safety and a pretty good young one.
2. Gideon is, easily, the best safety on the team. Neither his performance nor anyone else’s merits him not being the starter.
Vaccaro is too good of a player to not start and I think he could be a physical corner.
Quinton Jammer was a great safety early in his UT career and then they switched him to corner and was a tough matchup for receivers.
Gideon is a solid safety, but Philips could be the next great safety. Maybe Scott is the one who needs to come in at safety on nickel and dime. I just think the coaches will want Philips on the field and he could be solid and safety and playing the nickel.
by IAMLOVELLPINKNEY on Jan 8, 2011 6:55 PM CST up reply actions
I'd rather have a cover corner
than a physical corner. That is just my preference though.
"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton
Nice, I like it.
However, i do have to add that I played some pickup ball with Scott and Brandon Collins in Gregory last year and Scott is a real nice kid and a pretty dang good ball player. Brandon on the other hand got mad at me because I pulled up for a three in a 2-on 1 fastbreak and didn’t throw him the oop. I told him he was too small to get up that high and I was going for the dagger. Needless to say I missed.
Sports is man's joke on God, You see, God says to man, 'I've created a universe where it seems like everything matters, where you'll have to grapple with life and death and in the end you'll die anyway, and it won't really matter.' So man says to God, 'Oh, yeah? Within your universe we're going to create a sub-universe called sports, one that absolutely doesn't matter, and we'll follow everything that happens in it as if it were life and death.'" - Sam Kellerman
Response:
My assessment of Blake Gideon is based on his body of work, not his race, or his drop against Texas Tech in 2008.
As a freshman he was the best among a group of green defensive backs. He was solid, but not spectacular, like everyone else playing back there.
As a sophomore he picked off 6 passes and was again solid, but began to show his limitations. He was a decent player with Earl Thomas’ range as his fall-back in case something went wrong. He seemed to exhibit poor angles and lack of effectiveness in run support.
As a junior, he was again mediocre. He seemingly more poor angles for tackles, less impact in the turnover department, and got flattened or juked by every running back and wide receiver that got past the linebackers. In 2010, our safeties (including Christian Scott for all of those getting so sore about this) failed to do the one job they are supposed to do above all else, make the tackle when everyone else upfield of them doesn’t.
All in all, Blake Gideon is not useless, but he will not be an impact player, he will not be someone an offense fears, he does not have great range or recovery when he overpursues.
My responses (quotes are paraphrased):
“Gahh, but he’s a 4 year starter!!”
-Killebrew, Bobino, Derry. If you are willing to argue against this, I have nothing more to say to you.
“It’s because he’s white!”
No, it’s because he’s not that good.
“He’s a great kid and never gets into trouble!”
I value this to some degree, but you cannot tell me he’s our only nice guy on the team
“He’s a starter so he must be good!”
There are multiple factors that allow you to become a starter (depth, recruiting, injuries, ability to learnt he scheme, loyalty to upperclassmen, failure of peers to obey the law…)
In other words, just like Greg Davis
Blake Gideon is not our standard.
The reality is, his dropped INT cost Texas LOTS in 2008 and this should never be understated. It cost Texas a national championship appearance against Florida, a Big XII title, one less Big XII title for OU, Colt McCoy a Heisman trophy, not to mention the additional revenue and exposure for playing in the title game.
Of course, many other errors were made in that game, but none were more easily correctable than catching an easy ball.
by goingforthecorner on Jan 8, 2011 10:07 PM CST up reply actions
Just to clarify
I wasn’t saying you were bashing him for his race. I was just making a larger point. I appreciate the objective thoughts.
I disagree in some aspects that Gideon is mediocre. I won’t argue that he is a physical freak or anything of that nature but rather that he is more than serviceable as obviously stated by his stat line and post season accolades. Honestly, I’m not even a huge Gideon fan, I just can’t stand the lack of objectivity when people talk about the kid.
"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton
2nd EDIT
Nobody gets a groan, instead everyone gets a trophy. They are in the mail.
Aaron Williams
I know he declared for the draft, but I think he made a huge mistake. Allegedly he got some 2rd or better draft grade. But after the 2010 season—I’m calling B.S. on that.
I cannot imagine any team taking him prior to late 3rd. He is not NFL ready imo. And jumping ship early to go into a lockout is just plain old stupid. Someone who does NOT have his interest first is in his ear and giving him really bad advice. He is trading a 4 or 5 year 20-25M contract next year for a 5-10M contract this year. Not smart!! Huge mistake.
He had high ranks prior to his 2010 season….and he was looking like he was heading toward being a 3 and done 1st rounder…..and he still thinks that he is despite the shitty year he and the rest of the team had.
The way OSU’s Blackmon ran all over him you would think that he should know that he had “areas to improve.” I have no problem with guys coming out early. It is allowed, and if you are going to be a first rounder- go for it. Andrew Luck is being stupid-he should go. He can always go back and get a silly degree. (Ok, a degree from Stanford isn’t silly, unless you have $30M+ in your pocket). Aaron Williams – gimme a break.
AJ
Williams is still 2nd round at least. There just aren’t that many good corners out there. Revis and Asomugha wouldnt have been able to cover Blackmon (and, frankly, I only remember Williams getting burned one time all season and that was it) with our mediocre safeties, lousy pass rush, and frequently inept LB pass coverage (wow did that fall off this year).
Apparently I’m not alone:
http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2011/01/06/2011-nfl-mock-draft-adjusting-for-andrew-lucks-decision/
AJ's play this year
Considering how bad the rest of our team was, you would think that AJ would have been all over the place making plays.
I really do wish him well and I’m not hatin’ on him, just not happy with his early out decision. Yes, partly for selfish reasons, I’m sure. I can’t help that.
The Texans desperately need a CB and I love to have Longhorns on the team, but I am really worried about them picking him. I hope that I am wrong and that he does great.
I think some of the mock drafts have him placed based on his performance from last year. It will be interesting to see where he goes. But, let’s flip this around—what was the disadvantage if he decided to stayi his final year with new coaching and being one of the stars on the team?
Scout has dropped him to late 2nd or early 3rd
And that is if he does well in combines. I didn’t realize it, but he had 0 interceptions this year. http://cfn.scout.com/2/1036442.html
And somehow Stoops has Broyles and Lewis coming back next year. OU is going to be good.
One of the safeties needs to move to corner
We have a glut of talent and experience at safety, but then little at corner.
Safeties- Gideon, Scott, Brewster, Vaccaro, Philips, Cobbs, Bryant Jackson, maybe Evans and Mykkele Thompson (who needs to get a look on offense as a dual threat QB)
Corner- Byndom, AJ White, Barnett, Diggs, Turner, more true frosh
I would love to see Vaccaro coming on corner blitzes. Diaz needs guys on the field to force turnovers.
by IAMLOVELLPINKNEY on Jan 9, 2011 1:59 PM CST reply actions
You do understand
that the skill sets between safeties and corners differ. IMHO, Vaccaro’s skill set is much better suited for him to be successful at Safety or in the Nickel than at corner. I only saw Vaccaro in 1 on 1 coverage a few times and from what I saw he was hit and miss.
Also, corner blitzes happen at most a few times a game. It is an extremely risky blitz and has to be well timed in order to not get burnt on it.
"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton
Blake is ok with me
I think Blake is one of the best Players in the secondary we have had in years. I did have my doubts when he came in, however to start as a freshman..and maintain that job over the past three seasons says a lot. The dropped pass, hurt, but how many of you fans would have been able to catch that as a true freshman in that setting. Get off the fact because he is white, whether its a joke or not. Its stupid. Black or white our secondary looks suspect next year only because of the lack of experience and starts. Lets be optimistic here Hook em!!
I think a lot of people here who have never even played organized football would be able to catch that
as far as him maintaining the starting job here, that says a lot more about how poorly we have recruited that position – just like we have recruited poorly in other positions.
Is anyone saying Greg Smith is a fine tight end because he’s been starting over the other tight ends on the roster?
by goingforthecorner on Jan 10, 2011 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
There are obviously many
more variables at play such as injuries than him being the best player of the bunch.
"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton
gideon
i think he really is a decent safety and can be an impact player if he has talent around him.
His sophmore year he had 6 ints, second on the team only to ET( who had 8).
6 ints isnt too bad, and despite him getting burned a few times he did go out and make the big play sometimes too.
He's shown a great ability to perform well when he has talent around him.
I happen to agree with you … but it’s not necessarily the mark of a great player to only play better if surrounded by talent. However, we’re gonna find out next year how good he is. He’ll be surrounded by young unproven players at all other positions in the secondary. I think he’ll be a great leader for the group and I think he’ll man his post very well.
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