Texas vs Oklahoma State: Reviewing the Longhorns Offense
by Peter Bean on Oct 18, 2011 2:24 AM CDT
in Texas Longhorns Football
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PrintYou can read observations on the Texas defense here.
Bryan Harsin and the Texas offense came close to successfully executing their game plan, pounding the Pokes defense for 245 yards rushing (sack-adjusted), eating up the clock (39:18 of possession) and keeping the potent OSU offense on the sidelines. But the Longhorns were only able to manage 17 points on the scoreboard, done in by the inexperience of their quarterback and the lack of a downfield passing game. Although it was a decidedly improved performance from a week ago, in the end Texas' offense was hamstrung by the same fundamental deficiencies.
David Ash's first career start. The true freshman made his first career start and played the entire game, which would have been the right move even if Case McCoy weren't in the doghouse for attitude issues. Ash had a tough afternoon overall, and particularly when asked to try to bring Texas from behind in the second half, but there were definite improvements from last week in a number of regards.
Starting with the improvements, Ash managed much of the game pretty well, did a better job throwing the ball away when no play was available, mostly avoided throwing dangerous passes into coverage, and executed a statue of liberty that netted the Horns a touchdown. Making his first career start, Ash did some nice things and managed the offense well enough to keep us close throughout the game.
Still, Ash's effectiveness was hamstrung by three big problems, each of which are reflected in his final stat line: 22 of 40 passing for 139 yards, with a long of 20, 0 TDs, 2 INTs, 1 fumble, and 5 sacks. First, Ash struggled some with accuracy, completing just 55% of his passes and throwing tentatively at times -- no doubt in part because of his desire to avoid making costly mistakes. His most costly misfire came in the fourth quarter when on 4th and Goal from the 2 when he found Fozzy Whittaker open but threw the ball short, forcing Fozzy to catch it short of the goal line. Second, although he took a couple shots down the field, Ash simply wasn't comfortable enough as a passer to produce any kind of meaningful deep threat, which meant Texas had to sustain long drives to score points. And third, Ash too often simply held on to the ball too long, lacking the experience required to develop that internal clock for getting the ball out.
The inconvenient truth is that these are things learned through experience -- and 99 times out of 100 the hard way. Rare is the true freshman that is ready and able to display mastery of these things from the get-go. Ash is taking his lumps now, out there learning the hard way out of necessity. It's far from ideal, but under the circumstances giving him the reins is the right decision and fans are simply going to have to be patient. My wise co-author Horn Brain said it perfectly:
Our problem is Ash’s incomplete command of the offense. He isn’t checking us out of bad plays and he’s struggling to catch up to the speed of the rush (he needs to lose about 0.5 seconds from his internal clock). To go with McCoy gives you the same sorts of problems, but you also lose Ash’s contributions to the running game, and add McCoy’s inability to stand in the pocket and deliver the ball. I think people want someone like VY or Colt to come in and bail us out of bad plays, but what we need is someone to stand in there and run the system. Ash has all the tools and he’s improving very rapidly.
That's pretty much it, even if some fans are unwilling or unable to accept that we are, in fact, in a rebuilding process. There's plenty to bemoan about how we got into this position in the first place, but there's no changing the past and given the situation there's no option other than to be patient and let Ash stumble through the fog.
Hello, running game. On the bright side, Texas finally has a legitimately strong running game again. Fozzy Whittaker again ran his heart out and picked up 36 yards on 9 carries, while DJ Monroe contributed 33 on just 4 carries. And Malcolm Brown had his best performance to date, leading the team with 135 yards on just 19 carries (7.1 per carry) and scoring a pair of touchdowns, including this beauty on the Statue of Liberty play:
Did we run enough? More than a few fans thought Texas didn't run the ball enough, and they're both right and wrong. On the one hand, I have to agree in thinking that Harsin abandoned the run too soon in the 4th quarter. Trailing by 12 with 11 minutes left in the game, Harsin pretty much asked David Ash to try and lead a comeback; the true freshman wasn't ready for that and there was enough time at that point to keep pounding it on the ground.
On the other hand, I disagree with those who thought Harsin wasn't running the ball enough up to that point. Oklahoma State's defensive game plan was to play Cover-2, prevent big plays, keep things in front of them, and concede yardage until they got that one negative-yardage play that put us in a down-and-distance situation we couldn't handle. As many positive runs as we had, a single negative-yardage running play was often enough to kill a drive.
Across four 1st quarter drives Texas rushed the ball 14 times, five of which went for 6 yards, 8 yards (twice), 14 yards, and 27 yards. The other seven rushes went for 4, 1, 2, -1, 2, 3, -1, and -5 yards. And we scored exactly 0 points.
Our first touchdown of the game came after an OSU mishap on a punt return gave us the ball at the Cowboys' 15 yard line. We ran the ball on our first play after taking over, and Malcolm Brown took it all 15 yards for the score. Our only other offensive touchdown came on a 3-play, 60-yard drive that was all big plays: a 21-yard reverse by DJ Monroe, a 15-yard pass interference penalty on Goodwin, and Malcolm Brown's 24-yard TD run on the Statue of Liberty.
In other words, Harsin had very good reason to believe that we were not going to score enough points without coming up with big plays and/or some help from the passing game. Unfortunately, the offense wasn't able to deliver that help, but Harsin was hardly mistaken in thinking he had to try.
Final thoughts. I'm behind enough already with an enormously busy week and don't have time to rewatch the game right now, so I'm not going to go into much more detail than that. There are important observations to be made about the offensive line (how about Josh Cocran?!), tight ends, and wide receivers, but the big points above are the main story of Saturday's game. The bottom line right now is that we're a work-in-progress, and though we're showing some very encouraging signs of improvement, there's simply no way around the growing pains of starting a true freshman QB.
I will say this: those who are ready to bury Ash for his struggles against Oklahoma and OSU are pitifully foolish. There will come a time when making those kinds of judgments will be appropriate, but I just about tore my hair out when a few friends of mine proclaimed that Ash was Garrett Gilbert 2.0. It's beyond ignorant to say that right now, even if Ash never in fact develops into a quality starter.
Happily, the overwhelming majority of folks both here and that I've spoken to in person about the game came away encouraged by the overall performance against OSU, and optimistic about Ash's capacity to improve with experience. Indeed, as far as I'm concerned that's the story of this entire program at this point: we may be a ways from being a great team, but we're pretty good, getting better, and there are real reasons to feel optimistic about our capacity to continue developing. Importantly, that applies to just about everyone -- from the offensive line, to the young quarterback, to the coaches themselves. Harsin and Diaz have been far from perfect themselves, but I don't know how anyone could watch these first six games and not feel confident that they're willing and able to learn and adapt.
Like it or not, that's what this 2011 season is all about. Things could go well for us the rest of the way and we could finish with 8 or 9 wins. It's also conceivable that we finish the season with just 5 or 6 wins. But given that we're not winning the conference and not going to a BCS Bowl -- and never had a realistic prayer of doing so heading into this year, no matter what -- I'm entirely focused on whether and how we develop. There's plenty to gripe about in terms of how we got ourselves into this position, but in it we are, and what matters now is whether we do what's required to turn it around.
By that measure, Saturday's performance was a win. A joyless win for now, but unless and until you understand and accept what really matters about this season, you won't be able to avoid having the wrong conversation.
Hook 'em
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Agree
Im gonna go with 7or 8 Wins this season
Ash i hope stay as the starter i also think everyone forgets
he is a True Freshman also
Name any team in CFB who has had that, many coaching changes and went to National Champions Game the same year
Bowl game
It seems like the next goal for this team is to get at least 6 wins and qualify for a bowl game. That will give them some extra weeks of practice and the experience of a post season game.
Those extra weeks would be huge for this team. nt
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SECede?....Whoop(s)!!
agree
goal should be a bowl game this year. god i feel dirty for saying that.
Amen
A Bowl Game is a must for this young team. I am really optimisitc about that. We have a great bye week to prepare for the second half of our conference play. I think we have a chance to get this done.
We're Texas, We're not OK.
Moral Victory National Champions!!!!
By that measure, Saturday’s performance was a win.
There are many things to like about texas’ performance against Okie State, but to call it a win? Even on the “they tried real hard” Baylor scale, this is a stretch.
You know what's also a stretch?
Claiming a W for a scrimmage against your own players. Jerk.
Sunkist, they're aggies. They live off-guard.
-whills
Oh hey, it's Beergut the opportunist.
You know what else is an opportunist? Herpes.
"The only sport that should be cried over is tee ball."
- don't remember who said it, but I like it.
by HookTech on Oct 18, 2011 6:07 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Just read a few if your blogs for the first time..
You need help… We do you find it necessary to denigrate others even in victory? Your recent comments about RG3 are exhibit “A” of a long list of offenses. Your quarterback had a good enough day to write more about than to waist space claiming RG3 quits and can;t take a hit. This is a consistent issue with you. It is representative of what aggies do in general. Even after a solid aggie win, you and others are talking more about Texas and other team’s athletes in a negative way. I can think of no other folks that do this in the same manner and frequency as aggies. You guys have a good team.. go enjoy. I am sure you would like to meet Robert personally and tell him to his face he is a quitter and can’t take a hit… I know Robert.. he would probably let you have the first shot just because he can take a hit and because he has class… Wonder if you would stand ready to receive your own. You are a classless fool that unfortunately is typical of what it means to be an aggie fan. It must be a “tradition”. Please get some help with your complex… if it is not too late.
by DCLAW on Oct 18, 2011 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
It was too late when he decided to become an Aggie.
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
He also called McCoy a quitter when he was knocked out of the Alabama game
(among other times)
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 18, 2011 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Was beergut on the "Cart McCoy" Wagon?
If so, can somebody please punch him in the nuts for his ignorance?
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
Yes, he's been defending that slimeball Heard all along, and questioning McCoy's toughness
He said it was a legitimate hit, IIRC. Ludicrous.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 18, 2011 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Wow
That is what you call a systematic dismantling. Well done, sir.
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by GoHornsGo90 on Oct 18, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
You read my game review
And all you came out of it with was RG3 can’t take a hit? Wow.
Thanks for the personal attacks, though, it is nice to see tou keep the texas fan tradition of ignoring the point, and resorting to name-calling. Nice to see you can’t refute my original point.
by Beergut on Oct 18, 2011 4:01 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
It's pretty logical
That the more fringe comments that you make are going to be the ones that are referenced. If a politician says one insane thing and a bunch of everyday political mumble jumble, are people going to spend all their times discussing the stuff that is said every speech? No, they are going to talk about the point of difference. This is not rocket science.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Saying RG3 can't take a hit isn't a fringe comment
by Beergut on Oct 18, 2011 4:27 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Isn't it?
Nobody else in the country seems to believe that. From what I’ve seen on TV and the Web, people are mildly impressed with him thus far this season. Maybe others have seen differently, though?
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
You can attack someone personally
but no one else can? Your point is refuted by who you are…. no matter how legitimate your point may be, it still comes from you… and it is tainted and refuted by other things you say and do.. like commenting on a kids toughness. I did call you a name and should not have… I should have let what you say and do speak for themselves. That is the way it is with what you write… You can write something that may be worthy of reading otherwise but say something like RG3 can’t take a hit and then no one hears what else to have to say.. and that will be all they will come away with…. someone who writes stuff like that about Robert and Colt consistently simply has no standing to make a point at all.
You are a pathetic human being
You would think that if you root for a school whose best team in over a decade is looking a minimum of three losses, you’d keep the crowing to a minimum. Especially when that team is due to lose at least eleven starters this offseason, meaning some serious rebuilding is ahead.
But then again, if you had that sense of perspective about the bigger picture you probably wouldn’t have become an Aggroid in the first place. So by all means whoop it up and enjoy your transient stay in the (back half) of the Top 25. I would appreciate it if you’d keep your knuckle-dragging troll posts over at your website though. There’s a 100 IQ minimum to post here.
More personal attacks
So nice to see people abide by community guidelines. Thanks forroving you are a typical texas fan, though.
by Beergut on Oct 18, 2011 4:02 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
So I can go to your website, make smart ass comments and expect a loving response?
Your record proves otherwise. But, I understand, you need attention, and this is a good way to get it.
Look out 2013
If you go to my blog and make a comment
Smartass or not, people won’t be allowed to personally attack you just for asking a question or stating an opinion.
Again, no one has addressed my original point.
by Beergut on Oct 18, 2011 4:30 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
That's because you didn't make a point
You simply disagreed with PB’s implication that Saturday’s effort was a win.
Perhaps if you’d explained why you disagree, we could debate. Instead we were left to infer that you were simply being a prick and in that case, I’d say the response was appropriate.
@longhorn54b
I didn't know moral victories were texas' standard now.
Given the relentless claims I have seen on here claiming A&M is “all about moral victories”, you really need me to explain to you the hypocrisy of Bean’s statement?
I guess I missed all the "relentless claims"
Not a fan of moral victories and I’ve said many times on this site that the true damage done by last season was the lowering of expectations.
That said, I’d argue the dynamic is different here. In Texas, you’re talking about a program that has been at the elite level of college football for the better part of the past decade and is now trying to fight their way back. In that context and in the truncated timeframe of one to two season, you can see how a tremendous improvement from one week to the next (as we saw between the OU and OSU games and you admitted to above) could be construed as a morale victory.
Conversely, the Ags program has not been at the elite level in a while, so when they claim morale victories, it comes off as hollow because it’s redundant (“that’s what you said after the last five close losses to top ranked teams”).
To that end, if Bean or anyone else is still claiming morale victories the next team we lose to a team of OSU’s prowess or worse, then I would agree with your point about that being hypocritical.
But not in this case.
Regardless, if all you’re doing is trying to make yourself feel better by venturing over to your foe’s backyard to point out their hypocrisies, I’d say you’re running a fool’s errand.
@longhorn54b
Thanks for replying on topic
I think the lowering of expectations was realistic and necessary. Whether people want to admit it or not, texas’ offensive line was atrocious last season, and is marginally improved this season. They are a year away from being a truly dominant unit. People can scream ’we’re texas’ all they want, it doesn’t change the fact that you can’t be an elite team when you suck on the offensive line.
As for the moral victory issue, you’re basically saying b/c ’you’re texas’ and were more successful overall in the last decade, it is okay for you to declare moral victories. That rationalization doesn’t make such a claim any less hypocritical given the criticism texas fans level at Aggies for so-called moral victories. You either win or you lose, there is a reason you keep score, there is no victory to be claimed after the game for trying hard like Bean does above.
by Beergut on Oct 19, 2011 11:51 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
We all walk the thin line between arrogance and ignorance
Your first assertion is moot because the expectations were never realistic to begin with, even when we were winning 10 games/year. There’s no question we’re not an elite team, but I see no reason for UT fans to start having expectations based in reality now when the factors that led to our demise were self-inflicted. Moreover, I’d argue the fact that Mack embraced these “win every game” expectations from day one is why UT did eventually do it in 2005 and will get there again, one day. Resources and facilities that beget elite athletes is what it takes, but embracing the pursuit of perfection and not accepting anything less is where it starts.
As for the moral victory discussion, we’re arguing semantics now. Again, I’m not going to fall on my sword for this because I basically agree with your stipulation that there are no moral victories. I’ll simply reiterate that I don’t think Bean was complete hypocrite for suggesting UT won a small victory against OSU in the context of marked improvement with a tangible objective in mind…and given what’s remaining on our schedule, I don’t think he can play the moral victory card again and doubt he will…any loss from here on out will be considered a sidestep at best and a setback at worst, even the game against your beloved Ags in College Station (which for Texas’ froshes, may actually prove to be a tougher place to play mentally than the Cotton Bowl).
@longhorn54b
why argue with an aggie?
you saw the debates. Perry is the best they got, and he is two notches below a Ken Doll
Multiple reasons
1) I actually think BG had a valid argument if he could make it without the veil of snark and spite
2) I think the best way to address an agitator is to lead by example rather than toss more gas on the fire.
And based on the last exchange, I’d argue that we succeeded…however short lived this amnesty turns out to be.
That said, I realize your question was rhetorical, but figured you weren’t the only one wondering why I bothered to engage.
@longhorn54b
Good Lord, Beergut
Just look at the very first part of that sentence.
By that measure, Saturday’s performance was a win.
In other words, with steady improvement in mind, there were encouraging things to see. Obviously, nobody thinks it’s literally a win. No need to rip quotes out of context to incite people here.
by TheElusiveShadow on Oct 18, 2011 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
In that case, why not say it like that?
with steady improvement in mind, there were encouraging things to see.
Why claim a win?
You know damn good and well if an Aggie had made the same statement about an A&M game, people on here would be going crazy screaming about moral victories. But texas fans claiming a moral victory in a double-digit loss is now acceptable? You don’t see the hypocrisy here.
where the F did anyone say
“This is a great moral victory!”? What the article means is that this is a win for the program because we saw progress
formerly "Horns102591"
by horns1025 on Oct 19, 2011 3:50 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
It's a fucknig metaphor, dumbass.
See ya later, alligator.
by Paleface Horn on Oct 20, 2011 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions
The only thing sadder than Beergut...
…is Beergut trying to defend himself or “win” some kind of Internet argument by saying how more honorable he is.
Hee hee.
Because we're Texas and we're evil. DUH.
by iamjackburton on Oct 18, 2011 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Let me get this straight.
An Aggie fan is talking trash about “moral victories”.
An Aggie, fan of a school that invented moral victories.
An Aggie, member of a cult so insane that they’ve attempted extreme violence on multiple occasions due to imaginary transgressions on their honor.
An Aggie, fan of a team who had to pretend that their band is in a competition and that it wins those imaginary competitions in order to claim a victory, due to school-sponsored brainwashing that tells them that their school is superior to everyone else, despite the historical mediocrity and underachievement of their football team on the field.
An Aggie, part of a fanbase so blind that they ignore the fact that their president recently admitted to blatant violations of the Aggie code of honor, telling the world that he had decided to move to the SEC 18 (now 19) months ago, which was prior to their PLEDGE to remain in the Big 12.
An Aggie, part of a fanbase so pathetic that their greatest achievement since 1939 was to join another conference, not because of any chance of success in that conference, but so that they can live vicariously through the achievements of the actual good programs in the conference.
Whoop it up Aggie, you’re a hypocrite, dishonorable, a loser, and a leech on your betters. Enjoy being in a conference with three other programs of the same caliber as the one you just spent the last two years breaking your supposedly sacred honor to get away from. They’ll have no more mercy on you than we ever did.
Apparently there’s nothing in the Aggie code of honor about not being an attention whore. Or is there? Its obvious that you couldn’t care less about it.
this is so full of win
formerly "Horns102591"
by horns1025 on Oct 19, 2011 5:57 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
For all your trash talking abput Aggies
I notice you didn’t once refute Peter’s claim that this is a win. Welcome to Baylor level expectations, where playing someone within double-digits is a win.
by Beergut on Oct 19, 2011 11:59 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Losing the game is not a win in the won-loss column. Team progress is a positive however. Of course, you don’t even care about this, you’re just desperately trolling for attention because your own blog is so poorly written and so completely disconnected from reality that even the myopic A&M cult you so proudly belong to pointedly ignores it.
As an Aggie fan I guess you’re not used to being grounded in reality. You still think having your pretend army band run around on the field like clowns is a win. You still think that joining a conference in which you have no hope of competing is a win. You think watching other teams in that conference beat teams in some other conference and pretending you had something to do with it is a win. You still think that one side outscoring the other in your spring game is a win. You still think that a gameday thread in which you comment 50 times and one other Aggie comments in twice is a win. You still think that awaking in the morning without a urine-soaked mattress is a win.
I hate to be the one to tell you this Beergut, but you’re a born loser.
Moral Victory National Champions?
Oh well its better than Track & Field National Champions….seriously go away please you won’t be associating with Texas till after 2018 so you really have no reason to post on a Texas football post
formerly "Horns102591"
by horns1025 on Oct 19, 2011 5:55 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
than that means im already being more mature than you
You see I don’t stick my nose into peoples business when it doesn’t involve me. Maybe you should learn this valuable lesson
formerly "Horns102591"
by horns1025 on Oct 19, 2011 3:46 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
This is what we it has become?
Watching a QB play like a junior high player and calling it progress? Ash showed no arm strength and made bad decision after bad decision. I never saw pass over ten yards that was anything close to accurate.
I am sure McCoy does have an attitude after having to sit the bench and watch such a performance. Ash was horrible in the Oklahoma game and he was rewarded with another equally, if not worse, performance against OSU.
There was nothing positive in Ash’s performance. Nothing..
You don't think running for your life on every passing play had anything to do with it?
No entirely disagreeing with you, it’s just that maybe we’re remembering things differently.
Hook Em Horns!
I don't think Ash was running for his life every passing play
There were plenty of plays where he stood like a very nervous statue, double-pumping and/or double-clutching.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 18, 2011 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions
+1
David ash sucks…. You don’t have to be a senior to throw accurately. You don’t have to be an upper classmen to throw the deep ball… This kid terrible in every since of the word…
by drobe86 on Oct 18, 2011 6:20 AM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Allright, Mr. McCoy. The gig is up.
We’re onto you.
"The only sport that should be cried over is tee ball."
- don't remember who said it, but I like it.
by HookTech on Oct 18, 2011 6:46 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Actually, I take that back.
I’m sure Mr. McCoy is much more reasonable.
"The only sport that should be cried over is tee ball."
- don't remember who said it, but I like it.
by HookTech on Oct 18, 2011 7:02 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I have a feeling that the ball is not being thrown deep...
because no WR is effectively consistent at stretching the field. It takes time to get the ball down field and our OLine can’t sustain block long enough to allow someone to create separation.
by LonghorninRaiderland on Oct 18, 2011 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions
This From The Same Idiot
Who wanted to fire Stacey Searles after the OU game.
Get back to work, drobe, those Egg McMuffins aren’t going to wrap themselves.
by DudeAbide on Oct 18, 2011 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
"Get back to work, drobe, those Egg McMuffins aren't going to wrap themselves."
That’s the funniest thing I’ve read in a long time. Good for you, sir.
Hook Em Horns!
Sadly, I think you're giving drobe too much credit
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
Sadly
you think that by insulting me will make our teams situation better. And you’re attacking me and we’re on the same side? That doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. But whatever. Instead of stooping to your level I’m going to take the high road. But let me ask you something… What about Stacey Searles says that he is a good Oline coach? Did you watch our offensive line look like a turn stile vs. OU? Or do you have to be a senior to block the man in front of you? Too many people on here using “we’re young” as an excuse. Do you have to be an upperclassmen to throw accurate passes? Or do you have to be an upperclassmen to tackle or block? I challenge you or anybody else to find me a team that doesn’t have Freshman and Sophomores playing key roles and succeeding. That’s we’re young crap is getting old….
your ability to be unreasonable is getting annoying
formerly "Horns102591"
by horns1025 on Oct 19, 2011 6:00 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Experience, Experience, Experience...
I think that is what the “we’re young” is meant for. Seriously, What about Searels says he is a bad OLine coach? Do you not remember the OLine from last season? They were pretty bad. He has been here 6 games. It’s pretty tough to take avg OLineman and turn them into a brick wall in that short s of amount of time.
by LonghorninRaiderland on Oct 19, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
There is a lot of lose
In this post. Pretty myopic thoughts, drobe. You can’t mold an offensive line that has been repeatedly taught poor form for a poor scheme how to be a sterling unit in both pass and run blocking in an entirely new scheme in 6 games.
Whether Searels is a good OL coach or not is irrelevant. The point is you personally have no knowledge of whether he is or not because you have not seen an adequate sample size (this would have to be at least 2 years, probably more) to give a valid opinion on the matter. OL is delicate and hard to coach. Give it time instead of just wanting to burn everything to the ground all the time. This isn’t the time for Alfred in The Dark Knight. Have some fucking patience.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Joe Parker
I hate to be the mirror of bad news but David Ash will continue to get starts and get better. Case McCoy has too many inabilities and mechanical issues. You’ll hypocritical of Ash play now. Once he gets comfortable in the offense and OL play improves you will be singing a total different tune.
by Joe Parker on Oct 18, 2011 8:41 AM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Hypercritical?
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by GoHornsGo90 on Oct 18, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Overly Critical vs hypocritical
Joe Parker sees no difference, therefor neither do I.
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SECede?....Whoop(s)!!
Joe Parker That
Totally agree. Great to finally meet you. I’ve read so much about you and am a huge fan!!
We're Texas, We're not OK.
Joe Parker
Anytime Wrangler86!!! Texas Longhorn football will be back to claim their respectable spot once again at top of College Football 2012.
McCoy had an attitude
Before he had to sit on the bench. His attitude is one of the primary reasons that decision was made in the first place.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
by GoHornsGo90 on Oct 18, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
What is this about with McCoy having an attitude?
I never heard this until today. What did he do?
We're Texas, We're not OK.
It all seems to come from a single source: a recruitocosm author citing an anonymous source
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 18, 2011 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Also some sideline
Antics during one of the games, don’t remember which. The gesture to the press box or whatever.
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by GoHornsGo90 on Oct 18, 2011 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I heard something about his gesturing to the press box, but no descriptions
Seems like there’d be a youtube or something, no?
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 18, 2011 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought so
I’m still trying to figure out what the gesture was. Mack said something in his PC either last night or today that Case was none to pleased with losing his job. Not sure how he expressed it though—Mack said he’s fighting for his job back, which is good to hear, if true. Of course he also thinks Cody Johnson has played well, so…
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Jesus from Cosm and BC
Cites the “Asset” and “Big Cigar” who are both close to the team, and have actually been nails all season. Jesus has been nails since he’s arrived on the scene in fact.
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SECede?....Whoop(s)!!
But you can't deny that they're incredibly biased when it comes to their favorites
And I don’t know about “nails.” The reports were considerably positive, which would seem to conflict a bit with several units’ performances.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 18, 2011 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Their reports are based on what happens at practice
Its different when the lights come on and you and I both know that, but the “nails” I were referring to were the plays, who would play, what type of packages, which Freshmen were getting their first real start of the season….etc.
They were also pretty damn accurate on the coaching carousel saga as well.
But you can’t deny that they’re incredibly biased when it comes to their favorites
Not sure I follow. I would imagine they would be biased if they had favorites. That’s the point of having favorites, and we ALL have them. It just so happens their favorites are the ones getting playing time now.
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SECede?....Whoop(s)!!
They have their favorites among the coaches and players
I remember last year when they were passing on sentiments that Applewhite and Muschamp off as the only people doing their jobs. Who knows how much “value added” there is in the tranmission from the asset/cigar to the pages of the fantake sites?
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 18, 2011 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Fair enough
I’ll still take their track record though.
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SECede?....Whoop(s)!!
These are fair points
I agree. A lot of the off-season stuff turned out to be pure BS or just a really bad exaggeration (DEs and LBs some of best in conference; the former was probably because they were going up against OUR tackles).
When it comes to the stuff that has occurred since the season began, though, I think “nails” is a pretty good description of it. I can understand why you are skeptical; I just choose to believe them and will thus cite it. I agree I should do a better job saying that it’s from Cosm though. That is unfair and irresponsible to list it as sacred fact.
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Good analysis, PB.
As much as these last two games were disappointing in the result, they were an important test through which to identify growth areas for Ash and his supporting cast that need to be focused on in the next couple of weeks. I think it was sort of a “welcome to the Big 12” moment for Diaz and Harsin, as well. I’ll be interested to see how they adjust their approaches to the style of play of this league. I’m sure they watched tons of film, but there’s no substitute for putting your schemes to the test against the elite teams in the conference.
"The only sport that should be cried over is tee ball."
- don't remember who said it, but I like it.
by HookTech on Oct 18, 2011 7:10 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
There was one action..
It started with recruiting a quality college ready QB and that didn’t happen. Some heads will roll if this is what Mack thinks a UT QB should look like.
Did you think Ash looked college ready after the ISU game?
"The only sport that should be cried over is tee ball."
- don't remember who said it, but I like it.
by HookTech on Oct 18, 2011 7:45 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Peter: Brilliant analysis. Statesman can't do half this well.
Specifically:
1. The last paragraph of “David Ash’s first career start”, which summarizes where the passing game is.
2. The final three paragraphs of “Did we run enough?”
3. The next-to-last graf of “Final thoughts”.
Everybody: Go back and reread those. Presto! You’re up to speed!
One other thing . . . why take a terrific analysis like this and get yourself sidetracked on what Beergut writes. He’s in here as a troll, and when you get into it verbally with him, he has effectively stolen the moment. If you want to attack him, go to his blog. If you do, it’ll quadruple the responses he’s getting over there.
Agree that W/L record is secondary to development....
I’m glad to see us playing the kids. What a freshman class this is. Cochran may be the surprise of the season to date. I am also seeing practice reports predicting a similar break-out for Sedrick Flowers as soon as he heals up from some dings (ankle, concussion).
It will be very interesting to see what the staff comes up with for Kansas and the rest of the schedule after a God-send second open date. Just the thing for the development of our young players.
On that note, the main W/L priority that I have this season is bowl eligibility. Unlike last season when I didn’t want our team to have one more practice with the old staff after the aggy game, getting the extra work in before a bowl would be huge for this team no matter the outcome of the game itself.
Concerned
Concerned that Ash is an average at best college QB and even that may be a long way off. Hope I’m wrong, but what I thought would be a one year reclamation project resulting in a very strong 2012 team may be more like a 2-3 year rebuilding project. Can Mack survive that?
"But tonight the Superbowl belongs to the City of New Orleans" - Roger Goodell 2/7/2010
It's hard to say whether Ash will pan out.
The one thing that sticks out to me was his progression from OU to Okie Lite. Even though he made some bad decisions, he also made some good decisions.
For instance, The play where he ran for 24 yards to set up the touchdown. It was a broken play. He felt the pressure coming on the back side. He was able to slide away from it and scamper up the right sideline for the yardage. It was a smart play.
I think the concern is some what warrented, but to me, I can actually see the progression and the game slowing down for him. We never really saw that with Gilbert.
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
Re:
The one thing that sticks out to me was his progression from OU to Okie Lite. Even though he made some bad decisions, he also made some good decisions.
Statistically, this is not true. More turnovers, lower YPA, and zero TDs vs. OSU.
I mean, as a whole, I understand where you’re coming from. He did help sustain some drives. Two things to consider though:
1. The highs weren’t nearly high enough to balance out the lows. The first INT wasn’t “being young”. It’s just a bad throw. It isn’t as if it was some exotic zone blitz. The Mike LB was in his drop from the beginning of the play, sitting in that zone. The fumble at the end was equally bad, as he had identified the rusher from the beginning, but just didn’t get the ball out on time.
2. Some of this is on Harsin too, but the Texas Longhorns and David Ash need to decide what kind of quarterback they want him to be. If they want a game manager that checks down, and avoids risk, that’s fine. Our run game is good enough to carry this offense. Alternatively, he has the arm to be a gunslinger, and get the ball down field. More risk and more turnovers, but there’s also more explosive plays.
Problem is that the past few games, OSU in particular, he’s a hybrid of the two, and not for the better. He’s keeping all the throws underneath and turning the ball over. I can stomach turnovers if we’re getting the ball downfield, but when we’re only getting 4 YPA passing, there’s almost no utility in passing the ball over 15 times per game.
Valid Points
But there’s also a lot to be said for Harsin and the rest of the staff trying different things, varying the approach, to see what Ash can do. Neither he nor they can know what his limits are until they’ve tested him with a lot of different schemes, and it’s just going to be painful to watch early on. Sometimes the plays they run are as much about what the team is capable of in December as it is trying to win the current game.
In terms of progression...
Like I said, He made some bad decision and did not have his best game, but just watching him throw the ball away and making the running yards on broken protections gives me some sort of hope I suppose. I’m waiting for a bigger sample size. I like Ash and I certainly think he has what it takes. I hope i’m right.
We’ll see what the next 2 weeks brings for David Ash. Hopefully things will get better.
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
Re:
I’m waiting for a bigger sample size.
+1
I like Ash and I certainly think he has what it takes.I’m on the other side of this one. I just don’t see it. I’ve seen the physical tools, but not much else. Maybe that will improve. That’s a realistic possibility. I’m just less optimistic than others here…
I hope i’m right.I really hope you are too.
Optimism.
I’m not a quarterback. Never have been. I can only imagine what Ash is seeing on the field. The college game is so much faster then high school, also, the defenses are much more complex. Ash was used to a system, used to his coaches, knew all of his calls and knew the assignments. Now he is in a system with a brand new Coach, brand new system, brand new receivers. For a true Freshman, that is a lot to take on.
Yes his numbers are not great to date, but I think that as he get’s more comfortable, the better numbers will come.
Optimism can be a great thing. Optimism also can be a bitch.
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
I'm just a little hesitant with the optimism after being burned by GG.
I was GG apologist #1 for the last few years and used a lot of the same rhetoric I’m hearing about Ash. To be clear, I’m in no way calling Ash GG 2.0. I agree with PB, that’s premature, and ignorant. Still, it’s hard not to see the parallels.
The upcoming game against Kansas should prove to be a huge measuring stick of where Ash is in his development.
Agreed. Kansas will absolutely be that.
The next two weeks are crucial for Ash, especially in his development.
If our OC was Greg Davis…I’d be shitting bricks.
Let’s hope Harsin is as good of a QB coach as he’s been touted.
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
I Must Confess
Late in the game vs. OSU when Harsin was trying to win with the passing game I found myself wishing GG was healthy and available.
I was wishing we could have just suited J Gray and let him go buck wild.
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
Agreed, We Saw Improvement
The quarterback competition of the Spring/Summer, though necessary, has put Ash’s development way behind schedule. A bye week followed by two games against the two weakest teams the remaining schedule will give Ash an opportunity to gain more confidence and develop a bit more savvy.
Then we get to go to Columbia to play a very beatable Missouri team (perhaps for the last time before they move on to wrestle aTm for the title of Worst Team InThe SEC).
Think
Kentucky, Ole Miss, MSU, and Vandy might have something to say about that. I’m not bullish on the Ags chances in the SEC year after year, but they are better than all the teams except for LSU, Bama, and Arkansas this year.
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by GoHornsGo90 on Oct 18, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Oy
And Tenn too in the former category.
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by GoHornsGo90 on Oct 18, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Do you remember how bad Landry Jones was as a freshman?
Just as bad as Ash, and he had a year to redshirt. And he’s doing just fine now.
He was better than Ash.
Broke the school TD record against Baylor.
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Not even close to as bad as Ash
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 18, 2011 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I think there are certainly reasons to give Ash some slack in the leash
There’s a learning curve not only for him, but the entire offense, as there’s not a player on the team with experience in it dating back any earlier than the spring. But I’m really mystified by the McCoy treatment. What attitude? And what has he done that has looked any worse than Ash?
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 18, 2011 7:54 AM CDT reply actions
It seems as though McCoy doesn't practice well.
Now grant it, this is accounts from somebody else but i have seen where McCoy just isn’t producing in practice. I’ve also seen it stated that as of Jan 1, he is transfering.
Not sure which is the case, but either way, I don’t think he’ll see the field again. Unless Ash plays absolutely terrible.
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
Would Case Have Been Recruited to Texas
If his last name was Smith?
I have no idea.
I don’ know what the coaches saw. I don’t know if it was his last name or if he actually showed them something on tape that gave them the idea he could be a starter for Texas. I’m a fan, not a coach.
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
As a 3-Star, 170 lb. QB With Limitted Running and Passing Ability
I’m thinking the answer is no.
Part of the reason
I complained about the lack of running was the fact that the 1st down passing plays werent working at times. Might as well have started off 2nd & 10 on some occasions. Why not run the ball on 1st, get a couple of yards, and throw a short pass to help get Ash going. But I guess its easier said than done.
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Oct 18, 2011 9:22 AM CDT reply actions
*slow clap for PB*
I was encouraged by the progress too. Ash definitely needs to work on timing, including when to know his time in the pocket has run out and he needs to get rid of it, and timing with the receivers’ routes.
They’ll need to use the bye week to drill the hell out of his internal clock and shave some time.
Harsin did help with the timing routes, throwing a few quick spot routes to Davis with the O-line cutting to give him a lane. I thought that was a great addition. We’ll need to give Ash some checkdowns on the longer routes, in the form of Fozzy out of the backfield or Ship/Davis/Goodwin dragging in front of his eyes. That was available all day Saturday and we simply didn’t take advantage of it.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 18, 2011 9:48 AM CDT via iPhone app reply actions
Hope For the Future
I’m encouraged — by the team’s body language, if nothing else — that the ’Horns are on the right track. Some folks seem to think “rebuild” means working out a few kinks in the non-conference schedule, but everyone needs to remember that, in addition to all the young players, many of the coaches are learning on the job, too.
I have two questions I’m hoping someone can answer.
First, what is the story of Case McCoy’s attitude problems? This is the first I’ve heard of it.
Second, given that OL is a serious weakness for this team, what are our prospects for the future?
I know the team needs it
But I hate these bye weeks. Nothing to do Saturday but pray that Steele Jantz pulls off a miracle – and I am not a religious man.
I actually wish the bye week was after Kansas
I think it would be better to play a cupcake and get back in the W column sooner, rather than later.
Also, the bye week would serve us better as a 2 week practice for one of the tougher upcoming games.
by Horncasting on Oct 18, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
your chioce
I will agree I think Case is ahead of Ash mentally at this pt, though it isnt by much. He certainly isnt Tom Brady in the pocket. He bails way too early, but we is slightly better. He maybe 1-2 games better. we are 4-2 now so I ask you the following question:
Is it better to win an extra game this yr with the likely knowledge that you are sacrificing 3-5 over the next 3 yrs, because you played the least talented player and failed to develop the better prospect?
If you answered yes, than you like mediocrity. Odds are Case becomes a solid game manager at best, he has a below average arm and athleticism. I am happy with “moral victories” if the coaching staff is placing a bet that we are BCS caliber over the next few yrs.
FWIW
Brady wasn’t a superstar at Michigan even after his last year, was he? 6th round draft pick, right?
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by GoHornsGo90 on Oct 18, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
10-2 as a Senior including an Orange Bowl victory.
62.8% Completion, 2586 Yards, 20 TDs, 6 INTs, 7.6 Y/A
Wow.
Is it better to win an extra game this yr with the likely knowledge that you are sacrificing 3-5 over the next 3 yrs, because you played the least talented player and failed to develop the better prospect?
Load questions much?
Have you considered that Case has room to develop as well?
no
I dont. If we assume both develop to 90% of there ability. Case will cost victories. He has probably the worst arm in the Big 12. He is not athletic, so forget the comp to his brother. Again I do not see a huge difference between the 2 QBs. Case didnt audible out of bad plays. He did not get rid of the ball in a hurry in the OU game when he saw the overload. Both QBs were miserable. They did face the #8 defense in Pass Efficiency. Ash wasnt good vs OSU either, but that is #22 defense in Pass efficiency. I am asking people to reserve their opinion until they see lesser defenses. Hard spot for bth QBs to be in their first big games. The next best pass defense we face is KSU, ranked 49th. So perhaps it time to get off the ledge
Re:
If we assume both develop to 90% of there ability. Case will cost victories.
There’s a lot to that assumption. Should we just accept that as fact? Sticking with that logic, we should have gone with Snead and not McCoy senior*. Point here being that brains trump physical tools. I need to see Ash making better decisions before I can make that leap.
Alternatively, I think it’s a little presumptive of us to evaluate McCoy as if he’s hit the ceiling of his genetic potential. With a solid offseason of weight training, arm strength could improve.
I am asking people to reserve their opinion until they see lesser defenses.
Totally agree. I’m just not drinking the Kool Aid yet. I need to see some more productions in real games.
That said, from where I’m sitting today, I don’t get the warm fuzzies about either as a long term, viable option. Obviously (and hopefully) that can change.
Arm strength very rarely improves
And he’s already had two off-seasons here and looks basically the same size. Even if he were to get bigger, there’s no guarantee his arm will get better. It’s a long way from serviceable. Long way.
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Year to Date, he appears to put us in a better position to win, despite his physical limitations.
It’s tough because as fans, and as a staff, you want to look at both of these guys, and have one of them become your long term guy. Fortunately for me as a fan, I’m not burdened with that situation, though I am sympathetic to what they’re going through.
I think the reality could be that neither is the long term solution. And, in that case, you want the guy who can win now, and be serviceable next year, while we pave the way for Connor Brewer.
Case just seems to have a fire about him that’s missing from Ash. All leaders aren’t created equal, but I just get the vibe that the team rallies around Case a little more. He strikes me as more of a gamer.
Again, none of this is totally damning for Ash, and I’m pulling for him the whole way. I just haven’t seen enough to put me in the “he’s young, but just wait a few years and he’ll be elite” crowd.
Those are fair
Opinions. I’m mainly just talking about the arm though. I don’t think it’s likely to ever improve. Doesn’t mean he can’t win games with other attributes.
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but again that is another assumption
if we need Connor to start than kiss BCS good-bye for at least another 2 yrs. As for the fire, I see people say that, I dont dont get it. Whining on the sideline is certainly not fire. If he got up and punched an OU defender, I would give you fire and my personal favorite moxy. Complaining on the sideline in a blow out win over ISU, is actually a very poor sign to me. You see fire, I see a kid who thinks his name demands a starting spot.
Re:
if we need Connor to start than kiss BCS good-bye for at least another 2 yrs.
I don’t know if you’re including this year as well, but Kellen Moore seemed to do just fine as a RS-FR. I think Connor is the real deal. Kid looks great in the pocket and has excellent footwork.
kellen moore
I forgot.. but did you look at the strength of Schedule? Beat 1 ranked team. wins:
idaho
bowling green
Oregon ranked
la Tech
Southern Miss
Hawaii
San Jose St
New Mexico State
Utah state
Nevada
Fresno
lost to TCU in a bowl. Texas makes BCS with that schedule.
No doubt, it was an easy schedule.
In fairness, Moore didn’t have the weapons our RS-FR would. I don’t think 3500 yards, 25 TDs and 10 INTs would be totally out of the question for Brewer if he is as advertised and picks up the system.
There was every reason to believe that Gilbert was the real deal as well
And I’m sure many believed that about Ash. Point is, looking like the real deal in high school doesn’t mean a guy’s capable of stepping in and taking control.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 18, 2011 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions
but McCoy the elder
showed real promise. There is a difference. If you can show me examples of McCoy being heady please do. I did not see that in many of his games. His best play was scrambling vs a bad UCLA defense for a nice completion, when the right move was probably to get rid of the ball. I havent really seen the “intelligence” that you are talking about. I have seen a QB that bails out of the pocket way to early and tries to throw on the run. Clearly, he is a fan of his brother, but I do not think he has the skills to pull that off.
No doubt.
The comparisons aren’t the same. The physical talent gap wasn’t nearly as wide between Snead and McCoy.
As for the “intelligence”, I don’t expect amazing, heady checks at the line from either of them. But, I feel more comfortable with the ball in Case’s hands. Despite the fumbles against OU, I feel he’s less turnover prone, and that’s what Texas needs right now.
Saturday was an odd day for me
So I started out with a really BAD day Saturday. I had to get up early to take my kids to a camp at the lake, so we packed up the van and took off across the windy country roads. Ten minutes in I vaporized a deer – seriously, if you google exploding deer there are a few Youtube vids of what it looked like. My wife’s van looks like it hit a brick wall at 60mph. Nobody was hurt (aside from the deer and my pride), and I was able to drive the van home with steam pouring out from the radiator. No camp for the boys… Spent the rest of the morning dealing with insurance, the garage, and getting a rental van. I barely had enough time to get ready for the game, which I never miss. It’s a great thing to take your teen daughter to every home game and have that be HER time. Fortunately I had my kickoff time wrong, so I actually got there on time – thought it was a 2pm game.
The fans around us seem to always sell their season tickets whenever they give up on the team, so we were yet again surrounded by Okie State fans. I wasn’t in the best of moods, but ended up pleasantly surprised with the visitors. All but one were fairly cool, and we talked the whole game. The one guy was the typical Okie that felt it necessary to do the OU horns down all game – even the others around him shook their heads. Side note – the Statue of Liberty was priceless. The shock on their faces reminded me of the OU Cry boy on the avatars and Youtube vids. I did make sure to thank them for beating aTm and wished them luck on the thieves.
Once the game started my mood changed immensely. I didn’t feel we would lose the game until the very end – the turnover and the safety was a downer. The odd thing was I was all smiles by then. I’d seen so much to be happy about – the rushing game was really good, Fozzy, the chances we had for interceptions, the Statue play – I saw a lot of progression. I also thought the defense looked way better. Holding Blackmon to 7 carries for 70ish yards was great, and it showed me that we could meet a defensive goal. I was also thinking about next year with JG coming in. Should be something to reckon with.
Although I don’t like losing, this game looked like a really good sign. Until Saturday we only played 1 real team, and everyone was saying they didn’t know how good we were based on great games over poor opponents. They took the OU game as the answer and blasted us. Now we played an above average ranked team (it too has issues but is still good) and we didn’t crap the bed. Quarterback controversy aside, the issues that we have had are being addressed. The QB situation will be fixed – I have faith on that. Next year the team will be a beast. Until then, this team will be a joy to watch. There will be mistakes, but a lot of improvement with experience. Every game they should get better – win or lose. I’m keeping the rest of the season in that perspective, and expect to have a great year. It’s the off-season that will be grueling for me, waiting to see the 2012 Horns make a run. Who knows – by Thanksgiving we could be firing on all cylinders and have a fine parting gift for the short-timers. That would make my winter all that much better.
Well played
Sorry about the van. Ran into a buck once and his rack ended up in my passenger seat. Very scary situation. Thankfully I was not injured.
Your tempered view is one I think most share. Some of what you read are fans assessing how and where we need to improve. But like you, I think overall that optimism prevails.
Appreciate the well thought out entry.
Burnt Orange Nation
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We hit a horse when I was a kid
Rolled our International Scout and we all ended up thrown from the car and lying in a cotton field, somehow with only a few scrapes and bruises.
If we stay with Ash, and I'm guessing we are......
We need to limit his throws to 15 per game and depend on MB, Foz, DJ and CoJo to move the chains. 15 passes coupled with draws and Wildcat run/pass options should keep the defenses honest.
This will allow our freshman QB to learn and gain confidence as the season progresses. It will also limit his chances for Ints, fumbles and sacks . He needs to get comfortable running this team.
I’m not convinced Ash is the answer, but if Harsin doesn’t give him a chance to develop and learn, he very well could turn into another head case.
Hell, Fozzy is having a breakout season, MB is looking stronger every carry, and DJ is still averaging 8 yards a carry…..USE THEM and let our QB grow and learn.
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 18, 2011 1:09 PM CDT reply actions
in theory
I think that is a great idea, but I am not sure it is practical. We are not a dominant rushing team. Given the o-line play, we are prone to negative plays. Why do you think Harsin goes with so many gimmicks? He realizes it is hard for the offense to drive 10-12 plays w/ inconsistent blocking. We can hammer him for OU or OSU. That is fine. OU was a lost cause, if Bill Walsh came back from the dead ad called the offense Texas wasnt winning. OSU, maybe we could of won. Probably dont win BYU without Harsin
Negative plays > turnovers
Not to mention that we’re actually averaging more YPC on the ground in the last two games than we are YPA through the air (a relatively shocking statistic).
Good points, but I'm not really buying the reasons offered for not running more.
Sure, we had negative runs, but we had negative pass attempts too. A sack or an incompletion killed drives just as readily as a negative run.
Based on what I saw, and based on the stats (more YPC than YPA (and turnovers)), I still think we need to lean on the run more. Most of the explosive plays were on runs too.
I just need more data points to convince me that running more wouldn’t have given us a chance to actually win that game. And we need to get these guys run-blocking experience so they can practice opening lanes for what will be the unstoppable Brown-Gray tandem next year.
Also, what happened to screens to the RBs and short passes that act like runs? Seemed like most of the pass attempts were slow-developing plays that our offensive line can’t block for yet and put Ash in riskier situations. I think we need to adjust to reality and revise our passing options a bit. In other words, install more plays where the short pass is option 1, not 3 or 4. However, against Kansas I’m sure the same calls Harsin has made will work like a charm.
Harsin is in danger of losing his genius status IMO, but I ’m going to cut him some slack this season, because of the QB carousel this season that only got put to rest during the last game. Also, he was playing what is now #3 and #4 in the BCS.
Can’t wait to see how Ash does against Kansas. He needs and deserves an opponent like that after the Oklahomas.
Look out 2013
Something is wrong....
Ok, I obviously don’t know squat about football (having been one of the founding members of the Ted Constanzo Fan Club when I was at UT), but something is really wrong. Not just with the team, although I do sense some 2010 creeping back in. I’ve now been to Texas games back to back, and I can’t recall a time, except maybe late 80s, early 90s, when the fans have been so disgusted. For the OSU game, the stands were definitely not full, resolve weakened by the end of the third quarter, and after Gilbert’s Ash’s fumble in the 4th quarter, 80% of the folks up and left. I have always stayed to the (sometimes very bitter) end to sing the Eyes, but that fan commitment is not there. Someone, somewhere needs to make improvements, because a 6-6 season ain’t gonna cut it. I felt there was more buzz from the team when both QBs played, but it looks like Case is in some sort of doghouse now, and we’re back to a single QB all game long. Hope there are some good recruits over the next few years, if everything can hang together that long.
The fans staying till the very end
Is rare even in a victory. Remember VY’s last game against KU at home? We were up 52-0 at halftime and at least half the stadium was empty by the start of the second half. FWIW, they missed a much more even half of football. 14-14 :)
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Ash is really all we got
we will not turn him loose to run the option because the coaches are afraid he will get hurt.
Gilbert’s failure has to be laid squarely on Greg Davis and thankfully he is gone.
Ash showed improvement from the ou game to the OSU game.He has a ton of film now and two good QB coaches to work with him.
This team did not quit but failed to execute.
Most of Ash’s failure can be placed on the O line play.If that improves so will Ash.
Has Mack spoiled us fans?We will always have high expectations and be disappointed when our goals are not reached.I am expecting at least three more wins this year and a bowl trip.
Like one poster above states QB is the hardest position to play and this kid is a true frosh.Let’s be suppoprtive of our players and if we need to take out our frustrations Mack is the one we need to blame.
Lots of scuttlebutt about Mack moving upstairs and Meyer taking over.If you believe it I’ve got a diamond in Round Rock for sale cheap.
by TCB Orange Dino on Oct 18, 2011 4:50 PM CDT reply actions
IDK about not turning him lose
We’ve run the zone read a lot lately, which hasn’t done him any favors on Sundays. And a few QB draws.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Well put PB
Thanks for a fair & honest assesment. I’m with you on the wait & see, Just enjoy the ride, be patient till Thansgiving, then we can panic if there is not enough improvement. Loose to the gaggies and I say we just line ‘em up and stone ’em. LOL Thanks again for your write ups, your’s is the voice of reason and wisdom. Hook ’Em
Some Things Good, But....
I just have a hard time accepting that the UT program is where it’s at today. I’ll admit that this season since Gilbert left I’ve felt a better about the team than at this time last year. But that blowout loss (3rd humiliation to OU under MB in 11 years to only one big margin of victory that still was nowhere near payback for the three inexcusable epic fails) is hard to excuse even in a rebuilding season. And the continued failure to protect home field (one win in conference play in one and a half seasons) is a true concern.
And the jury is still out on these new coordinators, I’ve seen coaching changes at other programs that resulted in more noticeable turnarounds than we’ve witnessed so far, but I remain hopeful. I know PB says there’s a lot to bemoan about how we got here and since we are we need to make the best of it. And I agree that since there’s no way to fix history, we only have now to prepare for the future. But history has repeated itself now under MB, this time in a far worse way than before, and that makes having confidence about the future more difficult.
When we had the previous fail and reboot season in 2007 (10-3) I remember MB saying he had gotten complacent and was revamping the programs, starting only players who were the best in their position, bringing in new fire and energy, recommitting to being the best. And the following two seasons were better. But how did he fall back into his old bad habits of starting tenure not performance and losing that fire – just three seasons after his previous epiphany!?!? Why does he have to relearn that lesson over and over? This second epic fail is deeper and worse than the first. What’s to say that if’n he rights the ship in time for next year, or even the following one that he won’t get complacent again and let it fall to the shit we’ve seen on the field since 2009, perhaps even WORSE if this pattern holds (maybe even an Alabama/Michigan-style travesty loss to a Sunbelt or FBS team)?
Look, I hold this program to elite standards, teams in our elite world I compare them to are Oklahoma, Florida, Ohio State, Florida State, Alabama, LSU probably being the most consistently good over the past decade or two. One thing most of those programs have in common (and we had under MB until 2010) is no losing seasons in the middle of a head coach’s tenure (a first year coach has inherited talent and makes lots of changes, or a last year coach getting canned because of the losing season). MB’s situation is very unique in that sense. Can he remake himself as if he’s a new coach, getting the benefit of both a last season worthy of termination at these other elite programs, and now a first season we suffer through and are trying to excuse because enough assistant coach turnover has the same effect is the question that remains unanswered.
It just chaps my hide that OU under Stoops, FSU under Bowden and now Jimbo, Florida through multiple coaches have figured out how to ALWAYS finish with winning records even in down, rebuilding seasons or after coaching changes, but Texas under Mack Brown now dwells in or near the cellar of the conference, something those other programs would be apoplectic about. Even LSU, which has had losing seasons in this stretch at least has more NC trophies in their case than UT during the MB era. If down they haven’t stayed down long. There’s a strong likelihood UT finishes with only 5-6 wins again this year as we rebuild, making it two seasons in a row that would get other coaches fired at the other elite programs.
It is what it is now, all the players and coaches can do now is fight through this and learn how to win again – something MB was able to turn around in his first year at UT with arguably less raw talent starting or on the bench than we have today. Why it will take him longer now with more talent is beyond my comprehension.
I fear that for all the right words he’s now saying that he’s not as hungry as he was as our new HC in 1998. I pray that this administration isn’t so wedded to him and his legacy and the money the program has brought in since he’s been HC that they won’t pull the trigger on him if he demonstrates over the next two seasons that he’s lost it. And I hope that my fear is baseless and my prayers are unnecessary as 2011 plays out and we get back to his prior 9-10 win regularity and better in 2012 and beyond. It’s a shame UT can’t be included in the top tier of elite programs that don’t fall as far as UT does and don’t remain down as long as UT looks like it will. Still an overall top 10 legacy for the MB era at this point, but no longer a top 5 elite of the elite program like we were as recently as 2009.
All That Said, Ash Can Still Show Me Something
The comparison made earlier in this thread to Landry Jones could be accurate – if Ash can have the same kind of stellar performances mixed in with his learning curve. While LJ had some miserable games as a starting freshman, he also had several record-breaking ones full of highlight footage. My biggest complaint about GG was that he had ZERO games that showed promise, where he dominated a game, I saw no hope. LJ’s problem was consistency, sometimes awesome, sometimes suckful. Those flashes of brilliance matter, because that shows a kid who just needs more experience to be a BCS-caliber QB. And we’re seeing that experience he’s gained benefit a number one in the nation team today as a result. If DA can put together several games over the rest of the season, starting off against KU, where he is brilliant and dominates a game they way LJ did in his freshman season (and OU’s OL was just as inexperienced and bad that year for him when Bradford was injured as UT’s is today so that’s no excuse) then I’ll be more hopeful for 2012 and beyond. If he just muddles through as a game manager who picks up wins and losses without shining against any B12 competition then it’ll be hard to see how 2012 or 2013 gets any better and we’ll be sitting here on BON then praying for a, gasp, ten-win season (that used to happen here as regularly as breathing) rather than praying for NC-level seasons like we did through the 2000’s. So, Ash, show me, other fans, and most importantly your teammates something special down the line. I don’t care about consistency at this point, just show us you’re that guy who can lead a team to the top of college football! Hook’em Horns! }-
Failure of leadership and the end of Mack's tenure
On a cool Texas Saturday, my beloved Longhorns entered the stadium as decided underdogs, especially after the abuse delivered by OU last weekend, but I still believed.
Sure there were defensive breakdowns, but the two running scores aren’t all on the players. Manny Diaz drawing all players to the line of scrimmage in critical situations, allowed OSU’s offensive line to out maneuver what is usually, but not this year, an insane stable of linebackers while having our secondary out of position to make a play.
Our secondary that was shamed last weekend, many times appearing star struck and not once looking for the ball came out against a QB far more dangerous than Jones of OU, with a receiving core that’s close to Broyles and Stills and with one corner’s exception they showed me they belong at Texas. They played their hearts out, and even over matched in experience, the only negative I give to our secondary belongs to Quandre Diggs who seems to consistently be too little too late. On the complete flip side, Bydom while not pitching a perfect game, made a leap forward that ensures he’ll be one of the most lethal corners in the game next year. I would have liked to see better tackling access the board, but I loved the fight they showed on defense even I’d giving up too many points.
Though our down linemen failed to get backfield pressure in any consistent manner, they did control the line of scrimmage and showed that Weeden while great, isn’t Heisman material. Additionally they limited OSU’s running game, and with the exception of the two fateful runs, game killing runs for touchdowns, they showed they have the makings of a becoming the kind of blood drawing ice in the veins kind of defensive front that Texas fans have been spoiled by in years past.
The highlight of of the game was our running offense, which between Fozzy and Malcolm single handedly kept us in a game that very easily could have been back to back 30 point losses. DJ Monroe was also exceptional in many clutch cases and even Shipley made an impressive run or two.
Now, here’s the UGLY. I don’t know who made the decision to go with Ash, but it was a mistake of MONUMENTAL proportions. Obviously we played better with a single QB under center, but it was the wrong QB. With two INT’s, one critical fumble and total passing yards under 150 yards and a completion rate under 50%, Ash demonstrated to me that he’s NOT YET READY. I put that on Mack and Harsin for starting him, but I appreciate them showing the football gods that they weren’t going to try and make something work that has NEVER in the history of college football consistently worked by continuing to rotate the two of them. Sadly, they chose the wrong field general and were stuck with that decision which made us one dimensional, impressive as that dimension was, it should have allowed a competent and capable TEXAS QB, to pick the OSU secondary to pieces, but he’s just not yet the guy and the outcome, well, you judge for yourselves.
When we needed to move the ball, Harsin blew calls by turning on 4th and short to Ash’s ineffective and poor decision making. In that, Ash cost us the TD which was a pitch and catch that ANY Texas QB should make, only to send us away on 3 4th and short situations, with nothing worse than his under throwing Fozzy and failing to give us the much needed momentum that a TD would have provided.
Ash may be the future, but Harsin and Brown may not have one if they continue to force a Freshman QB down our throats before he’s ready. He MAY be the guy in the future, but honestly he’s shown me very little to make me a believer, and I KNOW with a rare certainty that this year the right QB is not Ash.
The team has no faith in Ash, and why would they? Texas QB’s don’t miss when it’s 4th and short to score for gap closing touchdowns. They aren’t forced to run 90% of the plays until the opposing defense drops back into prevent, thereby opening up the underneath throws, daring us to come back in the air, while giving us the 10 yard receptions that are useless in time limited scenarios. Sadly, that’s all Ash could give us when time was short, oh, that and the grossly under thrown pass to Fozzy that would have kept us in the game. Even still his clear inability to effectively move the ball through the air, even slightly, through three and a half quarters sealed our fate.
When we needed Ash the most, Brown and Harsin got what they deserved, NOTHING. Ash should have been picked off 3 times, but thank God that one was dropped, and were our running game not so strong, he would have had 7 INts.
I love my Horns, and its hard to watch a young yet formidable rushing game wasted as an inexperienced and inaccurate QB flushes what should have been a marquis win over an exceptional OSU team down the drain. What’s worse is that this can’t even bee seen as a development game as we could put any college QB under center to hand the ball off 50 plus times.
McCoy is the guy, at least this year. If that means Ash needs to move on down the road instead of developing into a leader over two years on the beech, then so be it. We are TEXAS, and we should NEVER be starting a Frosh. It’s a terrible shame that despite McCoy’s BYU performance showing us again what winning is about that Harsin and Brown chose Ash over McCoy.
The crowd was out of the game because they knew Ash was a liability. I don’t blame them, but at this point, despite the fact that they snapped into reality and played one QB, this game was lost by bad coaching coupled with an ill prepared David Ash.
He may be the future, but damn it we are Texas and Freshmen can stay, leave, or be grown ups and put in their time so that when they take over, they’ve EARNED it.
I can’t see how he’s earned anything other than a badge of utter ineffectiveness and the spite of his true warrior, If young brethren, not to mention his total and obvious lack of support of the fan base.
My honest belief is that with McCoy under center giving us some level of a passing game, we win this game by two touchdowns.
If we start Ash next week and run the ball 40 plus times while leaving Case on the sideline, I’m gonna be advocating for Mack’s time to step down. Clearly they fail to see the difference between talent and leadership at the highest levels and for that I am embarrassed for Mack Brown and Bryan Harsin.
Broken hearted Hookem
I thought
The one run was on 4th and 1. Isn’t that when you are supposed to have everyone near the line, and it is actually quite common to see a break away run in short yardage situations. As for our LBs, this is a complete miss on LB. We have very athletic outside LBs. We do not posses one MLB in need of a daily shave. You have poor fills, but my biggest pet peeve is seeing the MLB try to use speed instead of taking on a block and end up taking himself out of the play. The BYu comment just gets me going. Fact Ash played in every scoring drive in the BYU game. Only one scoring drive did Case complete 2 passes. Iowa State game both QBs Were 7/12. Ash had 145 yds, 2 TDs, and 0 picks. McCoy had 110 yds And 0 TDs. Clearly, Ash out-played McCoy. OU both QBs has 2 turnovers and similar completions. Both were terrible. People are just looking to build one QB up, because they remember the last game vs top 10 competition and only remember the other QB started and we won vs inferior competition. Regardless of the fact that both looked solid vs lower tier teams.
From everything we heard in the offseason id say the team does have faith in Ash
formerly "Horns102591"
by horns1025 on Oct 19, 2011 5:03 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Contrarian
I just don’t see what advantage Ash gives us over McAsh. Case is readier as a passer than David.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
by realmccoy on Oct 18, 2011 9:14 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
How?
He throws ducks because he has no arm. He doesn’t help himself mechanically because he never stands in the pocket and delivers. The only advantage Case gives us in the passing game over Ash is his internal clock is much (MUCH) shorter. He gets happy feet and gets himself sacked by trying to escape a pocket he’s physically incapable of when he has no reason to. When he does try to scramble, he either tucks it for no gain or (more often than not) holds the ball away from his body and gets it knocked out. The fumbles against OU were situations he was putting himself in against UCLA and ISU. OU’s plan was to inside blitz every chance they had and it killed him.
So please, how is he more ready than Ash? He doesn’t have comparable arm strength an anything beyond 5 yards. He doesn’t better pocket presence. He hasn’t displayed the ability to get us out of bad plays. Everyone is crying that Ash was handed the job and he hasn’t shown anything, but Case hasn’t shown anything to earn the job either. Ash has shown better on film, performed better in practice, and has greater potential. The only argument for Case is grasping and projecting intangible qualities like “moxie” and the such. But, I guess everyone’s favorite player is the back-up QB.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 18, 2011 10:00 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Re:
Everyone is crying that Ash was handed the job and he hasn’t shown anything, but Case hasn’t shown anything to earn the job either.
You can say what you want about the quality of opponent, but Case helped lead UT to a win on the road in our traditional offense. We can’t say that about Ash, yet. Hopefully that changes once he faces an inferior opponent in Kansas.
I’d also add that the most important distinction is McCoy’s ability to protect the football. Case has zero INTs and 2 fumbles. Ash has 4 INTs, and 3 fumbles (though not all lost). We weren’t getting the ball downfield anyway on Saturday. I don’t think it’s a huge stretch to say that the outcome of the game might have turned out better had Ash turned the ball over less.
???
You can say what you want about the quality of opponent, but Case helped lead UT to a win on the road in our traditional offense. We can’t say that about Ash, yet. Hopefully that changes once he faces an inferior opponent in Kansas.
-
VS WHO? Ash was a bigger contributor in the Iowa State game, so I do not understand what yu are referencing
UCLA is 3-3
Wins coming against San Jose St. (3-4) , Oregon St. (1-5), and Washington St (3-3). What about them says " quality win" ou think we have no down field threat now… McCoy has trouble completing the intermediate routes, frequently putting the ball at the feet of the reciever. His arms strength is a liability. Not having INTs is very decieving. How much of that can be attributed to sheer luck or a poorly thrown ball? In the time Case has been on the field, I haven’t seen anything that screams " make me the starter." There is a reason that GG was not pulled through his struggle last year in favor of Case.
by LonghorninRaiderland on Oct 19, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Your defense that McCoy led the offense to a win on the road...
To use that as a defense infers that it was a win worthy of him being a starter.
by LonghorninRaiderland on Oct 19, 2011 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Ash’s 2 TOs happened just outside of FG range. Given our redzone difficulty this year (with either QB), that’s 6 points at best. The game was lost on two big TD runs and Weeden taking one too many steps out of his own end zone.
Case does not take care of the ball better than Ash does. He throws as many dangerous passes (see: lucky completion to Mike Davis at UCLA), and doesn’t secure the ball under pressure in the pocket (see: both sacks against OU, and scramble play against UCLA he was fortunate not to get hit). They both have their issues protecting the ball, but you can fix more of Ash’s issues than you can McCoy’s.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 19, 2011 9:44 AM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Re:
Don’t you think that’s a little presumptive? There’s a reason that TO margin is one of the leading indicators of winning a football game.Ash’s 2 TOs happened just outside of FG range. Given our redzone difficulty this year (with either QB), that’s 6 points at best.
Case does not take care of the ball better than Ash does.You’re serious with this? Really? I understand wanting to defend Ash, but sheesh. Case has put the ball on the ground twice all year. Two turnovers. Zero INTs. Say what you want about inferior opponents in UCLA and Iowa State, but Case has been excellent about minimizing turnovers in our traditional offense.
In two games with “normal” snaps, Ash has put the ball on the ground 3 times and thrown 4 interceptions. I guess you’d have me believe that Case is getting all the breaks and Ash isn’t? I prefer statistical evidence over anecdotes about what should have happened.
Let’s be clear though. Case doesn’t look like a long term solution. I agree that his physical skillset is limiting in the long run. Based on what I’ve seen recently, though, I believe he gives us a better chance to win in the short term. And, I’m not abandoning Ash, either. He could have a bright future, and I hope he does. For now though, it appears to me that he’s more prone to mistakes than Case.
isnt that Biased?
you count all fumbles, whether lost or recovered, but discount passes dropped by defenders
Okay, if let’s just go TOs rather than potential TOs. Ash is 4 INTs and 1 fumble lost. Case has 2 fumbles lost. Well, 3 of Ash’s TOs occurred against OSU, where he took every snap against a team that is one of the best in the country at forcing TOs, two of which took place late down two scores in obvious passing downs. Of course Case has fewer TOs, his sample size is smaller.
The reason Case didn’t play Saturday is because Ash showed more before that to the guy. Rather than continuing the QB thing and stunting either QB’s growth, they went with the guy that has showed more on film and in practice, and has better potential moving forward. Why waste reps for Ash by giving the Case the job if he’s likely not the long term solution?
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 19, 2011 10:48 AM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Re:
Of course Case has fewer TOs, his sample size is smaller.
Even if we only look at passing attempts (I don’t have snap count, which would obviously be better), Case has 53 attempts and 2 turnovers for a 3.77% turnover rate. Ash has 79 attempts and 5 turnovers, for a 6.3% turnover rate.
The reason Case didn’t play Saturday is because Ash showed more before that to the guy.I think the reason Case didn’t play is largely due to poor conduct behind closed doors. Ash just hasn’t separated himself enough to warrant all the snaps. Something else is going on here.
Why waste reps for Ash by giving the Case the job if he’s likely not the long term solution?Game reps are overrated, especially if the player is playing like shit. If McCoy can win more now, you put him in. Somehow in all this QB debate a false dichotomy has been created:
1. Start McCoy and Lose later
2. Start Ash, take the licks now, and win later
When, in fact, a 3rd option is entirely possible: Start McCoy, keep Ash involved, win more now, and cut Ash loose when he proves he’s ready.
Of course, #3 carries no water if you really believe that Ash gives us a better chance to win now.
40 of Ash’s 79 attempts came against OSU, a team that has created a ton of TOs. Case’s attempts vs. Ash’s are just not a reasonable comparison at all.
And I agree, game reps aren’t all that important. Its the practice reps Ash needs. Coaches always harp the importance of bowl games for the extra practice you get. Make Ash the starter and give him the practice reps. You can’t play Case but not give him reps in practice, so you’d be splitting the time regardless.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 19, 2011 11:34 AM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Again, it's impossible to have an apples to apples comparison now that Case is one game removed.
OSU is superior to both UCLA and Iowa State. Still, I find it meaningful that Case turned the ball over zero times in both of those games. Can we project that forward against superior competition? Of course not.
That said, the statistics reflect what I’m seeing on the field: Despite his happy feet and physical limitations, Case is smarter with the football and generally gets it out faster.
I’m not making the case for McCoy to win the Heisman, only for him to manage games while Ash is developed. The mistakes Ash has made recently scream liability moving forward.
Why don’t we table this for post-KU? I think then we’ll have better comparisons then seeing that KU is 119/120 in Defensive passing efficiency. If Ash can’t light it up against them, I think we may have a real problem on our hands moving forward.
ASh
turned it over in both those games. Ash turned it over twice in OU,, as did Case. The numbers are very similar, when facing like competition, so in face of that why wouldnt you start te QB with the most potential
We didn't see Ash running the base offense for the majority of snaps until OU.
Let’s see how he does against inferior defenses like Kansas and Tech. Then we can compare notes.
Main point here is that I’ve seen Case perform in the base offense, albeit against inferior opponents. No one has seen that from Ash, yet most are acting like it’s a given that he’ll perform equally as well as Case. I have my doubts.
I should note again, though, that I’m in Ash’s corner. The best thing for this program is for him to succeed.
Certainly Not Saying Case is next Coming
But first of all – I think McAsh makes Ash better. His reads are simpler, the plays more familiar. Secondly, I agree Case doesn’t have the best arm – but it seemed to me that Case did a much better job on the second read. Looks like they have David throwing the ball out of bounds if his initial read is covered to avoid INTs. The INT he did have was really hard to understand what he saw there, like he didn’t even look at the what the defense was doing. I like Ash, obviously a better arm or ceiling – but that game was there for the taking and I personally believe Ash would have performed better if he was part of the McAsh combo.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
Better and worse
Certainly there are advantages to playing both now. It’s more stable and allows for a more consistent product on the field. It let’s you give more to one of the matchup is favorable or one is simply playing better.
The coaches likely understand that’s a very short sighted benefit though, and I would agree. Like against OU, if you have both, things can get out of hand against a quality opponent like that. It also stunts either player’s growth by limiting their practice reps. You may get a more stable product now, but the future product suffers. The two QB system wasn’t going to last for long.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 19, 2011 12:03 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Agreed
Temporary fix that sort of maximized the talent of both (for awhile). We are all in on Ash now – and I do think he has the higher ceiling, and superior arm strength. To be sure, Case has more experience than David – so it is his responsibility to demonstrate that he is an upgrade over Ash. When you consider total game – he hasn’t done that.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
Comments from OkState
The Horns played their best game of the season – yes, with Ash at the helm. Audit is on the money – you lose a game and everyone’s fav player is the backup QB that should have been playing. McCoy has no business playing for a Big 12 school given his talent level. Sure, he’s serviceable but no where near the quality level needed to compete in the Big 12 today. Once Ash’s game clock picks up, he will be as good as or better than Colt – every similar actually…
Horns definitely have the talent on staff, just need to find an O line, good safety’s and have the team gel. Fozzy, Brown and Monroe DO give you a running game. Now you just need your amazingly young QB to gel.
What you should be asking yourselves is where are all the 3rd, 4th, and 5th year 5-star recruits that are not starters. There is no way these kids should have been displaced by incoming freshman. Talent/team management is what should be questioned in Austin right now.
Actual Performance Does Not Match Your Assessment
Neither of the QBs have shown to be Big XII QBs. We averaged less than 3.5 yards per pass play and that doesn’t include sacks. The INT was a stinky one. I liked the plan where we just continually expanded David’s packages (sorry for the freudian sliip) and phased Case out when David grasped the offense better. Give accolades to OSU all we want – but they were beatable and we should have beat them. 40 minutes TOP – over 200 yards rushing. We lost because of a poor passing game and 2-3 plays where LBs and Safeties were MIA.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
Next two games are big games
The next games are against Kansas and Tech at home. They may be the two most winnable games remaining on the schedule. If Texas can win both of these games, it is bowl eligible. Becoming bowl eligible is important for the horns because they will get extra practice time in the period after the regular season and before the bowl game.
The last 4 games of the season are more difficult to win.
Ash vs Case
The decision to go with Ash is based mostly on his measurables (i.e. he is bigger, stronger, faster, stronger armed than Case). Since it is a rebuilding year, if there is not much difference between the QBs, you go with the guy with more upside.
There is no doubt that Ash is not ready for prime time yet because he is so inexperienced. It will be a real challenge for Harsin to tutor Ash and tailor our offense to utilize Ash’s strengths and camouflage his weaknesses. This is a very difficult situation for young Ash, here’s hoping that he is strong enough to not get overwhelmed by the experience.
Ash probably looks a lot better in the KU game because he will not be facing such a tough defense.
Will be interesting against KU
Do they give him a manageable load because the game will likely be in hand, or do they let him stretch his legs and see what he can do knowing his play won’t get us beat?
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 19, 2011 8:12 AM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Whoa! I'm surprised to see soo many people bashing Ash
Give him a chance, it was his first start against a highly ranked team. No one knows how he’s going to pan out but give him a few games at least before passing final judgment.. No, his performance wasn’t great but he is a true Freshman and I know many don’t want to admit it but this is a rebuilding year. I want to see progress and eventually that progress will translate into wins.
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad" - Unknown
If you'll allow me to play armchair psychologist...
I don’t think they’re bashing Ash as much as they’re having trouble coming to grips with Mack’s relatively abrupt decision to go 100% with Ash without what I’d call “definitive evidence” to support such a change.
This fan base is battle weary when it comes to QB controversies and I’d say Mack is 1-1 thus far…I think he mishandled Applewhite/Simms to some extent and did very well with McCoy/Snead. (Mock vs VY was never really a controversy…just a question of when VY was ready to assume the starting role).
Now we come to McCoy/Ash and much like the two QB controversies before, in leu of definitive evidence one way or the other, we have to hope Mack is backing the right horse…and the not knowing is very frustrating, particularly when the answer could be that neither Ash nor McCoy are the eventual answer and the search for a starting QB will continue indefinitely.
@longhorn54b
by 54b on Oct 19, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
This
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 19, 2011 3:00 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
So Soon We Forget
We had a good ‘ole QB controversy last year, too, Gilbert/McCoy that many would argue Mack got wrong in 2010. While Case got no meaningful downs in the season, there’s no disputing that the controversy existed, and was argued about extensively after the K State game. Reports of McCoy’s dad getting into a heated exchange with Mack outside the team bus about why Brown didn’t put Case in after the 3rd or 4th, or even the 5th pick don’t sound much like fiction. Dad McCoy called Brown on the whole “Case not prepared” lame excuse Mack and GD were sticking with. Dad McCoy called it BS and even worse as reported by those who witnessed it. And us fans were scratching our heads, pulling for Case as the season closed out, to no avail. That, my friend, is a QB controversy that I’d say equals another missed QB pick.
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