Texas Football 2011: Offensive Mid-Season Grades
Taking a big-picture look at each unit of the offensive through the first half of the season.
Quarterbacks
This isn't an easy position to grade, especially since the season at this position can already be effectively split into three distinct parts -- the end of the Garrett Gilbert era, the McAsh era, and what appears to be the Ash era moving forward.
For Gilbert, the grade is obviously a poor one. Although he made it through the first game relatively unscathed -- he managed not to throw an interception, the oft-repeated act that ended up defining his career at Texas -- the first half of the second game against BYU ended his reign as a starter after two interceptions. Since then, Gilbert supported his teammates for several games before undergoing shoulder surgery and transferring, ending his Texas career in a matter of weeks.
Garrett Gilbert's grade: F
Through games against BYU, UCLA, and Iowa State, Case McCoy essentially played without any major errors -- no fumbles, no interceptions -- but his limitations in arm strength, running ability, and pocket presence made his long-term upside pretty clear. Fumbling twice and getting tossed around like a rag doll by Oklahoma illustrated McCoy's limitations at the current time, as well as showing little ability to identify and respond to blitzes. The coaches responded by installing David Ash as the starter against the Pokes.
There's a segment of the fanbase that still wants to see McCoy as the starting quarterback -- or at least splitting time with Ash -- but that belief rests on the major fallacy that Case is or could ever become as successful as his brother. Given that he's weaker, doesn't have as much arm strength, and doesn't seem to have his brother's ability to find passing lanes, it seems clear even this early in his career that Case has significantly less upside than his brother. As in, having barely adequate skills to succeed at quarterback anywhere in the FBS. At best.
Case McCoy's grade: C
Spring and fall practice brimmed with rave reviews for Ash's maturity, his ability to spin the football, and his accuracy. Harsin responded by creating a package for Ash that burned his redshirt early in the Rice game and was mostly made up of running plays out of the shotgun and split wide in the Wildcat that eventually resulted in his touchdown pass to Jaxon Shipley against Iowa State.
As Gilbert lost his job and Ash split time with McCoy, Ash developed his capabilities every week, adding more of the offense, specifically in the form of some play-action passes against UCLA to take advantage of the linebackers selling out against the run. By the Oklahoma State game, the Texas coaches had seemingly seen enough to make him the starter, despite two interceptions against Oklahoma.
Ash has the physical skills to make all the throws -- which McCoy most certainly can not -- and the athleticism to keep plays alive with his feet and show a nice balance between keeping his eyes down field to make plays and running for positive yardage.
Whether he can avoid the costly interceptions that have defined his last two performances will ultimately go a long way to determine his long-term fit at the position and the ultimate future upside of Texas football teams, which at the moment is far from clear. Harsin needs to continue playing Ash to aid his development and to discover those answers.
David Ash's grade: B-
Overall grade: C
Running Backs
This position has been all about the almost simultaneous emergence of both Malcolm Brown and Fozzy Whittaker as the most effective 1-2 combination for Texas since Selvin Young and Jamaal Charles in 2005. Brown is on track to become one of only five five-star running backs to eclipse the 1,000-yard mark as a freshman and only needs 77 yards to surpass Cody Johnson's team-leading numbers from last season.
Talk about instant impact. Well, Brown didn't get a carry in the first half against Rice, but since then he's been nails.
In addition to his major contributions in the kickoff return game the last two weeks, Whittaker has finally found his role in the Texas offense as the triggerman in the Wildcat and a reliably third-down and change-of-pace option in pass protection and on plays to the edge.
SI's Stewart Mandel opined that Whittaker has looked as fast as he has at any time in the program and while there was some initial disagreement from this author about that statement, Fozzy's ability to stay healthy and avoid the knee and stinger injuries that defined the majority of his Texas career have now disappeared, resulting in a running back who can bounce plays outside to break off big gains against defenses, but also get low and become slippery enough to break tackles.
PB has been predicting monster seasons for the Mythical Fozzy Creature for years and given good health, as well as an effective scheme including Wildcat opportunities that take advantage of his vision for the cutback lanes, he is finally living up to those expectations. The Fozzy Creature is mythical no more!
As for the other backs, Joe Bergeron has been effective in limited action and is contributing on special teams amidst comments from Mack Brown this week that he needs more carries and Cody Johnson has run hard in short-yardage situations and looks committed to helping as a fullback. As he gains more experience as a blocker, he should become more consistent, but has still laid some beneficial blocks this season already.
Overall grade: B+
Wide Receivers
What happened to all the supposed depth here? Malcolm Williams gave up his senior season, Brock Fitzhenry quit, Greg Timmons transferred, Marquise Goodwin was going to redshirt, then changed his mind, but came back to a team in September that he hadn't practiced with in nearly a year. DeSean Hales hasn't emerged into the rotation. John Harris got hurt. Darius White hasn't progressed. Chris Jones has barely made a ripple.
Out of that absolute wreckage left by Bobby Kennedy, only Mike Davis and Jaxon Shipley have emerged as consistent targets, with true freshman Miles Onyegbule providing some blocking ability. And a failed pass. And, yeah, some blocking ability.
So right now, all David Ash has to work with is a true freshman who walked onto campus and instantly commanded a starting role and a sophomore who lost most of his freshman season to an injury. But still, Ash may be the next coming of Garrett Gilbert after one start, right?
Back to the receivers, though. Shipley has proven to be everything expected and more, helping the win the BYU game with his spectacular hurdle-catch and pass to David Ash late. The unfortunate problem for Ash moving forward is that his prospective favorite target has earned himself some bracket coverage of late and only threats elsewhere are going to change that moving forward.
As for Davis, the projected clear no.1 receiver this season hasn't made the expected strides. Known as a technician capable of carving up even the best defensive backs in high school and an hard worker in the film room, Davis has suddenly developed issues with his hands this fall, never a concern coming out of Skyline, as well as a decreased effectiveness on the long passes that provided such a huge boost to the early offensive production.
As much as specific personnel packages help early in the first several usages, once opponents start scheming for tendencies, a play's execution must happen at a much higher level or the coordinator has to do a much better job of integrating the constraint plays, with any mistakes showing up as essentially drive-killing negative plays.
Opponents are starting to take Shipley away with bracket coverage and until other receivers start stepping up or the running game forces defenses to commit the resources currently used to stop the sensational frosh into the box, the effectiveness of the passing game will be limited.
Overall grade: C
Tight Ends
Except for DJ Grant's six-catch, three-touchdown performance against UCLA that was supposed to herald a breakout for both Grant and the tight end position at Texas in general, the production at tight end has been as non-existent as ever since Jermichael Finley left campus and Blaine Irby hurt his knee.
It's mostly been Grant, Irby, and Dom Jones in the rotation, though Barrett Matthews received his highest number of reps against Oklahoma State after suffering a knee injury early in the season that kept him off the field in previous weeks. In the running game, Jones has been the best blocker, but hasn't provided much in the passing game. Basically the opposite for Grant, who hasn't even shown up much in the passing game since UCLA.
And while Irby's comeback story is heartwarming and the fact that he caught his first two passes since his catastrophic knee injury is more than commendable, the unfortunate fact is that he will never reach his pre-injury level of athleticism and as much as he has been mythologized over the years, there never any guarantee that he was going to effectively replace Finley anyway. Upper-body strength added during his rehabilitation hasn't helped him much as a blocker -- he clearly tries, but seemed more effective pre-injury as an H-back.
It's not a lack of effort from any of the players, it's more that the effects of years of injuries and evaluations that didn't hit or development that didn't happen have get that all-around player from emerging who could hold down the position, excel in the blocking game and stretch the field down the seam. It's still possible Grant could emerge as that player, but it's going to take more than just some effort, often less effective than needed, and one strong game as a receiver to reach that point.
Overall grade: C
Offensive Line
Considering what he's working with -- a line full of guards, mostly -- Stacy Searels has done a commendable job this season. For the most part, the group hasn't had many holding penalties and there seems to be a toughness lacking in recent years. In some ways, it's hard to separate the work that Searels has done from the work of Bryan Harsin, whose coherent schemes have made a major difference, and Bennie Wylie, who had a summer to starting molding the offensive linemen into well-conditioned athletes.
There have been some struggles in pass protection the last two weeks, including what appeared to be some busted assignments, for the most part, the 2011 group represents a fairly serious step forward from the last several seasons. the tackle positions are still a concern, but Searels seems to have patched it up with the move of Trey Hopkins outside to right tackle and replacing Tray Allen with Josh Cochran against Oklahoma State, even though Allen was far from a major liability.
The emergence of Josh Cochran against Oklahoma State has to count as a positive down the road, especially if he can successfully anchor that position for years to come. He looked fantastic in space, using his athleticism to get down the field and the same persistence that made him a projectable recruit out of high school. Some added weight has helped and once he develops some man strength and more refined technique in pass protection, he could be a strong performer his last two years in the program.
Along the rest of the line, Trey Hopkins has held his own at right tackle despite projecting as an interior lineman coming into college, while Mason Walters and Dominic Espinosa, slowed in recent weeks by an ankle injury that should have time to heal during the bye week, have emerged to help solidify guard and center positions. After a slow start to the season, David Snow has come on to provide more consistent play.
The group still needs some work consistently getting push in the power-running game and in dealing with blitzes and twists by the defensive line, but overall, it hasn't been the liability envisioned in worst-case scenarios and so far the group has held up despite the lack of depth behind the starters to provide rest during games.
Moving forward, the major concern is that lack of depth, which could be alleviated somewhat if another freshman, guard Sedrick Flowers, can recover from an ankle injury. This is still one of the positions on the team that cannot afford to lose a starter to a major injury -- the margin of error is slim.
Overall grade: B-
Offensive coaching
A certain element of the fanbase might be inclined to separate the last two games from the first four, but doing so misses the overall point. With a freshman now starting at quarterback, left tackle, running back, and wide receiver, Harsin clearly didn't have a lot of veteran help coming into the season. Heck, some of the oldest guys on the offensive roster -- Tray Allen, DJ Grant, Blaine Irby -- haven't even contributed much in the past due to injuries or ineffectiveness.
All told, Texas is starting to develop a strong running game led by Brown and aided by effectively combining the base Power running game with some jet sweeps and the situational use of the Wildcat package. Add in some successful trick plays and the Longhorns have been able to manufacture some touchdowns basically out of thin air.
There are certainly some concerns -- providing Ash the ability to get out of plays that will clearly not work pre-snap, scoring in the red zone, and creating big plays. In fact, the Longhorns only have nine plays longer than 30 yards, eight in the Big 12. While Oklahoma blitzed, Oklahoma State mostly opted to make sure that the Longhorns couldn't make plays over the top with consistent Cover 2 looks. Either way, in the last two games, David Ash hasn't had the opportunities present to go over the top
The honeymoon period is clearly over after Harsin the Oklahoma beatdown and a misstep against Oklahoma State by not trusting his running game on 3rd and goal at the three and then coming back with three straight passes after the safety, but those are really small concerns considering how much the new co-coordinator brings to the table above and beyond anything that Greg Davis could ever imagine.
Harsin creates packages that feature his best personnel, gives most of the roster the opportunity to play in those packages, and creates an environment that's fun because of the trick plays that he installs. Trick plays that tend to actually work in game situations, no less, with the Oklahoma game being the only exception all season. Oh yeah, and old-school running enthusiast Mack Brown loves Harsin's willingness and ability to consistently run the football.
Considering that Garrett Gilbert played himself out of his starting role and the two other options had thrown one combined collegiate pass, as much as the offense has struggled in the last two weeks, overall the group appears on schedule in development, if not slightly ahead.
Overall grade: B
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Just realized I left him off.
Monroe is going exactly what everyone expected him to do given more of an opportunity and it’s still concerning that Harsin hasn’t used him more often, even breaking out a Greg Davis-esque flow of the game excuse following the Oklahoma State game that was extremely disappointing to hear. It’s extremely hard to bring him down in the backfield even when plays get blown up and he’s producing at high level. As always with Monroe, it seems like a matter of time before he breaks off a long run.
Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
Burnt Orange Nation
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Oct 20, 2011 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Where do you read the post game comments
Greg Davis... Gone!
Not sure if the coordinator comments go up on MB-TF
I usually access them through Orangebloods.
Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
Burnt Orange Nation
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Oct 20, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd say our three most explosive players
are DJ Monroe, Jaxon Shipley, and Malcolm Brown. If I were Harsin, I’d be trying to find ways to get these guys the ball. Maybe a diamond formation with the three of them back there or maybe slip Jaxon out and put in Cody Johnson.
TEXAS FIGHT
My Dream Alignment
The Fozzycat with Fozzy taking the snap, Malcom Brown and DJ Monroe split behind him.
Bring back the wishbone!
Thought it was interesting
that a week after I called for the Diamond formation following the UCLA game — and got into an argument about it on Twitter with someone who said I shouldn’t be criticizing Harsin after a big win — Texas used it against Iowa State on several plays, but hasn’t since.
Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
Burnt Orange Nation
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Oct 20, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I am not sure. Malcolm is legit and already an excellent back, but I think he is more Benson than Charles. I haven’t seen anything that shows me he is capable of taking it to the house on any carry. Jaxson is great, but again I haven’t seen much in break away ability. Great players, but not homerun threats. DJ and Fozzy are serious threats
by codaxx on Oct 20, 2011 8:34 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Shouldn't Gilbert get an "I" for Incomplete
F just seems too cruel….it reminds of the days back before the interwebs when you could call TEX and get your grades from an automated Walter Cronkite…or was it Cactus Pryor…anyway at the end of the semester before you received your report card via mail, you could call TEX and some old dude would list your classes and not only tell you the grade, but make sure you knew exactly what grade you received by also saying a word that began with the letter grade you received.
Example:
“History 301….F as in Frank”
I can only imagine “Frank” was in honor of Frank Erwin who I’ve been told was a real bad motherf*cker back when he was Pres or Dean or whatever of the Uninversity. Apparently some hippies were trying to save the trees along Waller Creek from being cut down when they were expanding the stadium. Story goes that old Frank got in a bulldozer and threatened to turn those hippies into Happy Pies….if those hippies had only known to put an endangered salamander in those trees, they probably could have saved them.
Anyway, where was I…oh yeah, let’s give Gilbert an “I” for Interception. I mean Incomplete. Actually, that probably works regardless.
Onward.
@longhorn54b
I agree.
While you could give him an ‘F’ just for getting pulled from the game, at the same time if he were still on the roster, I’d imagine he’d still be contending for the starting role.
I think Frank
was Chairman of the Board of Regents. You’re right, he was a badass. I don’t think it mattered much who was Pres or Dean, or even who else was on the BOR. Frank ran the show.
.
by Longhorn in Canada on Oct 20, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Erwin
Also much hated by the faculty — for crushing the faculty senate and dismissing untenured profs who displeased him politically.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
You're right.
I was there during the Frank Erwin years, too. Some of the hippies chained themselves to the trees, and after they were cut down, the hipies dumped some of them in front of the main building blocking the doors. Whatever you think of Erwin, without him, we may still have a 70,000-seat stadium.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
Gilbert's Surgery
What exactly was the nature of Gilbert’s injury and the related surgery? Apparently the UT coaches didn’t think the “injury” accounted for Gilbert’s problems on the field since there seemed to be no talk of his possibiily regaining the starting job after rehab, and no mention of an injury before he lost his starting job that I know. Within a few weeks Gilbert is demoted, diagnosed as injured, undergoes surgery, is given a medical red-shirt year of eligibility, and transfers. Gilbert has taken enough of a beating, so I’m not trying to impune his character, but it smells a little fishy to me.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
maybe not
I know a friend of the family that mentioned he was having issues with his shoulder after 3ice game. I am not sure what the extent was, but he was injured. Could it have waited? Maybe, but I think after all the nonsense he heard from fans, we owe him the benefit of the doubt
by codaxx on Oct 21, 2011 10:46 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
It was Dr William Livingston
http://www.utexas.edu/student/registrar/tex/
But I agree with your assessment.
by scdavis50 on Oct 21, 2011 1:11 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
on the RB side...
…i know traylon shead hasnt seen any action so obviously cant get any grade.
but any information on what is going on with him in terms of development and possibility of playing time?
by vanterminatorhorn on Oct 20, 2011 2:07 PM CDT reply actions
traylon
Will never play here… Malcolm brown and Bergeron have already surpassed him. And keep in mind that j. Gray is coming in ’12… You have to think a transfer is looming
by drobe86 on Oct 20, 2011 2:23 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
I think he was/is getting some time at TE.
Doubt he ever gets a carry at Texas. Could see him being a good TE or LB though.
Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
Burnt Orange Nation
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Oct 20, 2011 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that "H-Back" is the new catch-all position for whatever athletic offensie player ...
… can’t crack the rotation at another position. To date, I think there are about 20 candidates to play H-Back.
On this:
“There are certainly some concerns — providing Ash the ability to get out of plays that will clearly not work pre-snap,….”
I think maybe they should be having Ash look at the sideline pre-snap to see if he should audible, at least for the remainder of this year. It looks a bit amatuerish, but if it saves us a few terrible plays a game, it’s worth it for now.
It could also be used to set up a misdirection play or two, i.e. Ash looks to the sideline and right then the center snaps the ball directly to Fozzy.
Did that at least once against OSU
and I agree it’s something that is easy for Harsin to install that could be a major benefit.
Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
Burnt Orange Nation
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Oct 20, 2011 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
For Ash, this may be a good idea.
“… look at the sideline pre-snap to see if he should audible … It looks a bit amatuerish …”
I’ve always thought this same thing about 0U’s offense. It certainly is effective, for them, but it sure looks dopey.
B-
For David ash really? That kids a walking turnover and he looks alot like Gilbert… Case McCoy at least doesn’t get us beat… This is a case of Simms vs. Applewhite 2 and it’s obvious Mack didn’t learn anything…
by drobe86 on Oct 20, 2011 2:15 PM CDT via iPhone app reply actions
Dude, the horse is dead. Stop beating it.
I think everyone on BON knows your opinion at this point.
not
Trying to stir the pot but tell me how his grade is higher than case’ at this point? Is that not a fair question to ask?
by drobe86 on Oct 20, 2011 3:11 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
As an OU fan,
Please, please, PLEASE let Case be the starter for the next few years. Against Ash, we have to account for his legs and the deep ball. Against Case… lol.
New Orleans, here we come.
by KratosWasASooner on Oct 20, 2011 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh sure, we don't hear from you for days on end ...
… and then you barge in the door and start being all smart-alecky & mean about Colt’s li’l Bro’!
I guess I did come off that way...
What I was trying to say, Case does not worry me whatsoever, because his ceiling for improvement is very small. David Ash on the other hand has some real potential. In fact, his only fault seemed to be his inexperience. From casual observation in the Shootout, he looked like an good, athletic, young QB attempting to adjust to the speed of one of the fastest, most aggressive defenses in CFB. The most surprising part being that he never really seemed rattled.
New Orleans, here we come.
by KratosWasASooner on Oct 20, 2011 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Ash has that type of even-keeled demeanor
And it kind of concerned me coming out of high school and still does to some extent because he’s not a vocal guy, which can make it hard to for teammates to buy into a guy, but I think it can really pay dividends between whistles.
As far as your take on McCoy, that’s exactly where I stand on him.
Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
Burnt Orange Nation
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Oct 20, 2011 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Ditto ditto
And may I say to Kratos, if there was ever a team that could break the SEC’s lock on the BcS title, it’s this year’s Sooners. Yowza.
Simplicity is always the secret, to a profound truth, to doing things, to writing, to painting. Life is profound in its simplicity. - Charles Bukowski
by windycityhorn on Oct 20, 2011 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions
If we can get the team to focus for a full four quarters,
There’s no telling how good they could be. I’m just satisfied with finding improvement somewhere in each game.
New Orleans, here we come.
by KratosWasASooner on Oct 21, 2011 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions
If you could get them to play
With the hate they do against Texas every year, I’d give them a great shot against Bama or LSU. but they just refuse to.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
by GoHornsGo90 on Oct 22, 2011 10:24 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Windycity, in retrospect ...
… you may have been the jinx that made the sooners lose to TTech. Aah, hindsight!
I was just teasing.
Your opinions on those 2 young’uns are spot-on, so far. I think we all see the same thing.
Don't expect any more
Read a line or two, figured I knew who it was, confirmed that assumption, then moved on. Guy is something else.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 20, 2011 9:18 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
of course its completely fair to judge Ash based on 2 games against top 5 teams
You need to chill and learn patience Ash ain’t gonna be Colt or Vince his first year
formerly "Horns102591"
by horns1025 on Oct 20, 2011 4:32 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Drobe86
Maybe you didn’t get the memo coming into this year’s season. 2012 is marked as rebuilding year for the Texas Longhorns and the goal is to win at least 7gms and become bowl eligible. The Longhorns are young & inexperience at skilled positions so development takes time. I’m willing to bet you probably never even played ball in school. You seem like a shit talker with no skills to back it up. For weeks, all i seen you posted, is negative and hypocritical things about the Longhorns. Really???? David Ash whom i remind you is only freshman and has started only 1 game in his career is the next coming of GG is just foolish. Case McCoy had all damn summer to work on his footwork and throwing mechanics. Still, Case McCoy continue to struggle in that department. The verdict is still out on David Ash and you can’t evaluate a QB after 1 start, you Mel Kipper wanna be.
by Joe Parker on Oct 21, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Case
Case will get some reps in the kansas game. He is really no more experenced than Ash, Ash has one full game in his belt, Case has not managed a complete game. No way to judge Ash or Case yet. We only know what we have seen. Its Obvious the coaches have not made up their minds. May the best Qb win.
well
For the record I did play ball in high school and even in college. I was nowhere near the level of ut but I’d say that I did well for myself. But that’s beside the point. You call me a shit talker, which I think is really misconstrued…. I’ve loved ut since I was 5 years old. I’m sorry that it pains me to see us lose by 40 to our most hated rival….
by drobe86 on Oct 21, 2011 10:06 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
also
Maybe you didn’t get the memo but were Texas. We have more money, and resources than any school in NCAA football. Anything less than a bcs bowl EVERY season is unacceptable. And i think it’s ridiculous for our fans to accept this crappy product we’ve put on the field the last 2 years…. You’ll never see crap like this go on at Alabama. So why is it ok here? I want someone to answer my questions straight up without insulting me. I’m simply asking a question….
by drobe86 on Oct 21, 2011 10:12 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions 1 recs
obviously you didnt see Alabama before Saban
And all the money in the world won’t buy you victory unless you are a SEC team. You need to snap out of lala land and join us here in reality
formerly "Horns102591"
by horns1025 on Oct 22, 2011 6:37 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Did you start watching CFB
Like 3 years ago? Bama was almost completely irrelevant for the entire decade while Texas was in the national eye every single year.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Joe Parker
Ok, Notre Dame has just as much money and resourses as UT and what have they done in the last 10yrs but overspend for Head Coaches? Florida, Ohio St, USC, and Michigan all historical football programs struggling to be what they once was. Texas got lazy recruiting, evaluating and developing these players and it showed. So Mack cleaned house and brought in a whole new staff. Takes time to implement a new offensive and defensive scheme. 2012 is the year when Texas will be restore to its formal selves. Florida
I agree ash can't be a B
Since when was having 5 or 6 turnovers in the 2 biggest games of the season a b- performance. And then everyone jumps on your case like you’re biased? All this talk about case’s weak arm too and not once has his weak arm reallybhurt the team. And Ash has nit looked faster than case at all. The zone option read with him never works even when th O- line blocks cuz he is slow. I can understand grading ash a B on potential but on performance he is just as bad as Gilbert If you look at the stats
hmmm
Gilbert – D, Ash – C, McCoy – C, RBs – B+, OL C-, DL underachieving D, Secondary C, TE – do we have one?, WR – B-, LBs – underachieving D.
Really had higher hopes for D lines, very disappointed at LB and Secondary. Thought this was the making of an Alabama D on paper, disenchanted.
QBs cant change out of plays or read D.
WR Jaxon A+, Malcolm A, Fozzy A – unimpressed as advertised with the rest
You thought this defense was going to be like Bama?
And you are disappointed in our secondary? Man, I’ll have what you were smoking pre-season please. I bet 54b will too!
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Wait wait wait
Disappointed in the secondary?! We brought back Blake Gideon, a very limited player who’s game has been picked apart for 3 years…Kenny Vaccaro, a talented yet untested player….Carrington Byndom, who played okay as a freshman after Chykie broke his arm…and Adrian Phillips, a guy best known for punt fair catches. All of the depth is true freshmen. And you’re disappointed?! What did you expect? That’s some crazy koolaid.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 20, 2011 9:37 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
to your point
I could be misplacing disappointment with secondary on DL and LB. I was hoping for an Alabama smothering type D and the DL has truly disappointed with stops, sacks and domination I was hoping for. I did expect more from Jeffcoat and the 4 and 5 stars starting at DL and LB, I really dont think thats too harsh, its perhaps a new system? Blake Gideon is a weak link, too slow – he wouldnt start for me. Hoping the D improves to close the season and undebateable stars emerge.
RBs better, Malcolm is the real deal
Jaxon Shipley may be a best ever at UT if he stays healthy
The LBs haven't lived up to expectations
The LBs aren’t the strength we expected, but within reason. I thought Manny Acho would have been a better choice at Mike, given he’s the weaker of the LBs in coverage and is a better blitzer and stunts better than Robinson.
The DEs have been okay. No sacks, but have gotten decent spot pressure and have held their assignments in containment.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 21, 2011 1:09 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Kenny Vaccaro, a talented yet untested player
Taken a step back from the “NFL bound after this season” stance I see?
Do not be distracted by what you see, but be transformed by what you believe.
Are those mutually exclusive?
At the start of the season, the time he was referencing, Vaccaro was a talented but untested player. Now he is a talented and tested player. And a lot of people expected him to jump early if he had a good season this year. Now there’s been rumors that he might like to stick around for his Sr. season.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
a lot of people expected him to jump early if he had a good season this year
Do any of these people not include internet bloggers? Anyone like say Mel Kiper or Todd McShay or any other draft guru have him on an early draft list?
Do not be distracted by what you see, but be transformed by what you believe.
You trust those two
Over UT writers like Scipio and GoBR that actually know about our players? The two that thought Gerald McCoy was better than Suh? I wouldn’t be surprised if those two haven’t even seen him play yet.
Either way, that’s completely besides the point. I never said he was ready for the NFL. I said people expected him to go. These thoughts stem mainly from his family situation, not because he thinks he’s an all-world safety that would be a top 10 pick.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Still think it's possible he ends up there.
After Johnson and Berryhill graduate this year, it will just be Roberson and possibly Moss at FB with Johnathan Gray coming in, so that could force the full-time move.
Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
Burnt Orange Nation
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Oct 20, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Believe Berryhill is a Jr.
He is listed as a Sr. on the roster on MBTF.com, but in his bio it has him as a Jr. with the stats for his Fr. (2009), Soph (2010) and Jr. (2011) seasons.
Back to Bergeron, I think that move would get him on the field more in the future. How strange is it that a kid exceeding expectations in shape/conditioning may have actually set himself back in terms of long-term position potential.
When I saw Berryhill was listed as senior
I was a bit surprised. Have to say I don’t really know what the deal is, as the news accounts of him receiving his scholarship this year list him as a senior and when walk-ons receive schollies, it’s typically for their senior season.
Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
Burnt Orange Nation
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Oct 20, 2011 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
When Gray comes in next year, the whole dynamic of the offense will change.
I have been watching this kid since the state title game last year and, folks, he is one in a million.
The Longhorn faithful had better pray, burn candles or sacrifice a purse puppy that he doesn’t get hurt, because this kid is the second coming of Earl Campbell. I don’t mean he runs like Earl, but he will make the same impact as Earl – HE. IS. THE. REAL. DEAL!
This will be good for our QB situation, because with Brown and Gray in the backfield, we won’t NEED to pass. Opposing teams can stack the line until hell freezes over and still will be watching their burnt orange asses crossing the goal line!
All Ash will need to perfect is his faking and handoff skills.
We’re Texas.
We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
Really nice post, Wes
I just keep telling myself that our best QB, RB, WR, and LT are true freshmen…our second-best WR and best OL are true sophomores…Gray, Jones and Johnson are coming…deep breaths.
Has Sedrick Flowers burned his shirt? I can’t remember if he’s played or not.
Agreed. Nice post
Very comprehensive. I glanced at the O-line grade and thought it was too high, but your facts and projections back up your grade. Really, it has been better than I thought it would be. The TE/H-back grade is fantasy, though I understand why our guys are having issues executing at the needed level.
I am stunned to look at the entire offense and find just eight (8) players from the 2007 and 2008 recruiting classes: TAllen, CJohnson, Fozzy, Irby, Grant, Hales, Snow, Monroe. Of that group, only Fozzy, Irby, Grant and Snow are starters, and Fozzy, Irby (and, I guess, Monroe, Allen and Cody) are more rotation guys than full-timers.
Five of our starting 11 was in high school or redshirting last season, and three others (Davis, Irby, Dom Jones) saw little or no activity in 2010.
Offensive line grade too high
I think you are being overly influenced by how bad the line has been the last few years in determining your grade. I would give them a C. They are probably a B- in run blocking, but deserve a D for pass blocking. Too many missed assignments and DEs running free to the quarterback. Hopefully we can correct some of this during the bye week, but it’s hard to have a good offensive line with so many underclassmen. Strength and experience are critical on the O-line. Lots of progress from last year but still a long way to go.
I agree with your B- for Ash, but I am more concerned with the fumbles than the interceptions. I thought one interception against OU was more due to Shipley being tripped than Ash throwing a poor pass, and the last interception against OSU was pretty meaningless. If the line were blocking better we would have a better idea of Ash’s real potential as a passer. That said, he has to protect the ball when scrambling even if he has to take a loss. I did think he was aiming the ball a bit against OSU. Coaches need to be careful they don’t harp so much on avoiding interceptions that they make him afraid to aggressively throw the ball.
by longhorn charlie on Oct 20, 2011 2:38 PM CDT reply actions
On the offensive line ...
… are you insinuating that their pass-blocking was not very good against the sooners?!
Agree regarding the OL
We lead the Big 12 in sacks allowed and negative plays.
Our senior left tackle who was supposed to have a comeback year has been benched for a true frosh (who has actually played pretty well, considering). Regardless of who’s been in the game, there have been far too many jailbreaks and missed assignments. Defensive ends running unblocked at the quarterback? That should never happen.
My dad is a professor and he never graded on a curve. I believe that’s a good policy. C minus.
Simplicity is always the secret, to a profound truth, to doing things, to writing, to painting. Life is profound in its simplicity. - Charles Bukowski
by windycityhorn on Oct 20, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
This is kind of hilarious, isn't it?
Opponents are starting to take Shipley away with bracket coverage
He’s a true freshman, for god’s sake!
Greg Davis haikus; a lot like his offenses; always go sideways.
by pleaseplaykindle on Oct 20, 2011 2:42 PM CDT reply actions
+1
I havent seen any team bracket coverage on Shipley. Did he hear this on tv or something? I’ve watched the OU and OSU games about 3 times now and I haven’t seen it yet.
He's not saying it didn't happen, drobe
He’s saying it’s funny that Shipley is already that good.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Wait.
So you watched the interception that Ash threw against Oklahoma when he was targeting Shipley and Tony Jefferson had underneath coverage and there was a safety over the top and didn’t identify that as bracket coverage? One person underneath, one over the top. The definition of bracket coverage.
Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
Burnt Orange Nation
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Oct 21, 2011 2:29 AM CDT up reply actions
It's funny
I almost pointed out that exact play. And then said fuck it.
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Your O Line grade is too high...there is a reason we are leading the league in sacks and Ash is a pick machine...
The B fits their run blocking improvement, but D- for pass protection….I don’t see the B- for Ash, although I put most of the fault on Harsin for rushing him (ie 40 passes vs OSU) and the lines weak pass blocking.
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 20, 2011 2:55 PM CDT reply actions
H back
Can someone please explain to me the difference between an H back and a tight end? This is one hole in my football knowledge that has been bugging me for a while.
"The only sport that should be cried over is tee ball."
- don't remember who said it, but I like it.
Interesting that the article stated that the H-back position is usually utilized when a team has “exceptional talent at the tight end position.” hahahahahaha. hahahahahaha
"The only sport that should be cried over is tee ball."
- don't remember who said it, but I like it.
My basic understanding
TE almost always lines up on the LOS, typically right next to one of the OT. When we ran the flex TE with Greg Davis, the TE was still on the LOS, but flexed out more in the position of a slot receiver instead of right next to the OT.
The H-back is a hybrid between a TE and a FB, and lines up anywhere from on the LOS (next to OT or flex TE spot) to the backfield, where he is used as a lead blocker or an out of the backfield pass catcher.
Thanks. Good explanation.
"The only sport that should be cried over is tee ball."
- don't remember who said it, but I like it.
This quote from the previously linked article had me rolling....
“Teams at high school and collegiate levels sometimes utilize H-back formations, but usually only if they have exceptional talent and depth at the tight end and fullback positions.”
We’ve got it all backwards. Lol.
the grade for the o-line is too high.d+ maybe the run blocking is better,pass blocking does not exist.the grade for case mccoy should be as high as david ash both have performed on the same level.the coaching grade would be c+ a giant improvement from greg davis but this staff will continue to pay for the terrible job of recruiting by mack and the departed coaches.outside of kansas every team we play the rest of the year will have more offensive weapons.HOOK`EM
I've already made it clear that I think McCoy still deserves some snaps, so I won't rehash those same arguments.
Thought I’d at least point this out, though:
[T]he athleticism to keep plays alive with his feet and show a nice balance between keeping his eyes down field to make plays and running for positive yardage.I understand that sacks skew this data a little bit, but Ash is averaging -0.04 YPC. He only has two games with a positive YPC: Iowa State (4.0) and OSU (1.40).
I agree...I wish they would play McCoy in the 2nd and 4th quarters and Ash the 1st and 3rd. I know it won't happen but
I would really like to see Case back in the competition…rather than being rumored about transfering. Anyway, one of the grades we left out was the Conference…
Big 12——A
I dont recall in recent history us having 5 teams in the top 25 plus two more teams rising at 4-2….
17th ranked aTm
11th ranked K State
4th ranked OSU
3rd ranked OU and
4-2 Baylor
4-2 Tech
The competition level has gone through the roof just as we are trying to put together the team with fresmen,sophs and a few upperclassmen. Going to make the turnaround just that much harder.
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 20, 2011 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions
2008 had 5 teams ranked really high
Texas faced 4 top 10 teams in a row that year
Texas
OU
OSU
Mizzou
Tech
I believe Nebraska was ranked some during that year as well.
If you think this is about "credit"
then you completely miss the point. The point isn’t credit. The point is that McCoy’s upside is “adequate” and Ash’s upside is a quarterback who could take the team to BCS or championship games because he has the physical tools and embryonic indications in the mental side. McCoy doesn’t have the physical ability to take a team to that level. His upside is as a guy who won’t keep a team from reaching that level. Huge difference.
Given the option to continue to split reps and screw around with the future, Harsin has made a decision that he wants to see what Ash has. Maybe he doesn’t have it. But the tools are all there in a way that Case McCoy can only dream about.
Maybe Ash is Gilbert in terms of decision making and reading defenses, but Harsin wants to find out sooner rather than later because doing so is in the best interests of the program. He certainly has better pocket presence than the self-sacking McCoy. If Ash absolutely fails, Harsin will likely still have the opportunity to circle back and employ the bundle of “intangibles” that make up McCoy’s greatest attribute.
And that’s the best plan right now. In Harsin I trust.
Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
Burnt Orange Nation
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Oct 21, 2011 2:42 AM CDT up reply actions
McCoy is not even a D1 caliber QB - end of story.
And the jury is still out on Ash – My God, he is only a freshman, cut him a little slack!
We’re Texas.
We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
by Snide Aside on Oct 21, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
McCoy is not even a D1 caliber QB – end of story.
Based on who, you? Last I checked several schools thought otherwise. I can see the argument for not a Big 12 caliber QB, but chill out with the not a D1 caliber. Haters gonna hate.
Do not be distracted by what you see, but be transformed by what you believe.
Agreed
I agree the jury is still out on Ash, but should also be on McCoy II. Remember they wasted his red shirt last year for about 7 plays. Maybe Ash is better, maybe McCoy is. Maybe neither will be better than Gilbert. We don’t have enough evidence to judge any of them. But you have to wonder about whoever has been recruiting QB’s lately, when among Gilbert, McCoy Jr, Wood, and Ash, none of them are exactly grabbing the job and running away with it. Yes, it’s early but none have been particularly impressive. None seem like the next Colt or Vince.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
We've been spoiled
Colt and Vince defy what it meant to have once in a lifetime players. The fact that we had QBs who now have their jerseys painted at DKR for 7 consecutive years is something we have to realize won’t likely happen for some time.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 21, 2011 9:03 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Talk about spoiled. It's been a lot more than just Vince & Colt.
UT has had a string of James Brown, Major Applewhite, Chris Simms, Vince, & Colt … w/ a little bit of Chance Mock mixed in there. That’s pretty much 16 years of “greatness” escalating up to “other-worldly” quarterbacking for the Longhorns.
We thought he was D1 when we recruited him as well - not so much now.
Last I checked several schools thought otherwise. I can see the argument for not a Big 12 caliber QB, but chill out with the not a D1 caliber.
You must be related to him.
We’re Texas.
We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
The coaches have not made up their minds.
I think they would like Ash to seperate because of his size and arm strength, but that hasnt happened yet. Case will be playing in the Kansas game. Ash has lost a ton of yards in sacks, wiped out all of his runs for plus yardage for the season. Case has been sacked much less than Ash. One of those intangables might have hit Fozzy for the score rather than a short of goal diving catch. Thats why i think the Qb seat is wide open. That and Ash was O for 8 on long balls, you have to hit on some of them. Mack has left the door wide open. Im not going to put a ceiling on Case or David. We have had Qbs in the past that broke through false ceilings.
I said this on another blog and I will say it here
It has gone beyond physical or mental ability to perform as QB. Once Case became insubordinate and refused to enter the game when told to do so, he no longer became a viable member of the team. He was given a scholarship to do a job, when he refused to do the job he should be fired. This is a real world lesson for him AND for the rest of the team. Mutiny will not be tolerated.
We’re Texas.
We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
by Snide Aside on Oct 22, 2011 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
I didn't see him refuse to go in the game.
I, rather, saw him pissed off because he was pulled at a crucial time in the game, regardless of the rotation system going on, and he couldn’t get into a rhythm. I’d much rather see him being competitive than to act like he doesn’t want to be in there at crunch time. Nothing about his play or his attitude has, thus far, shown that he is not a “viable member of the team”. That’s a ridiculous statement. The UCLA game, alone, merits that he deserves some equal time to show his abilities in game situations. It’s just silly to only use Ash at this point. Both of shown some good flashes and both deserve the playing time.
I'll throw out some rankings
Yards Per Game: 61st in NCAA, last in Big 12 – F.
Yards Per Play: 81st in NCAA, 8th in the Big 12 – D
Rushing YPP – 70th in NCAA, 9th in the Big 12 – F
Passing Efficiency – 66th in NCAA, 8th in the Big 12 – D
Sacks Allowed – 96th in NCAA, last in the Big 12 – F
TFL Allowed – 101st in NCAA, last in the Big 12 – F
Turnover Margin – 56th in NCAA, 6th in the Big 12 – C
Not good stuff, the numbers paint a pretty bleak picture.
And all of these stats come right back to the O Line and the the 3 QB's struggles
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 20, 2011 9:01 PM CDT reply actions
Great stuff GoBR
Case has a better grade than Ash?!?! But he played so well against UCLA! We’ll just ignore how well UCLA’s defense is performing against Arizona at the moment (42 points at half).
I have no gripes with the grades, and they are all where I expected and where I would grade myself. The O-line and QB positions are graded on a bit of a curve, given the youth at QB and the line’s past performance and current roster problems. Josh Cochran’s emergence has been as big a development as we’ve had this season. It’s nice to have a tackle playing tackle. If Kelley or Greenlea can emerge at RT, then we’ll really be cooking with gas.
Making Ash the full time starter is best for the long term development of this offense. He limits the problems we’d experience with poor O-line play is pass pro. Additional practice reps mean Harsin can expand the level of passing offense Ash can take on. Hopefully, Ash’s timing with the WRs and his mental clock will development alongside.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 20, 2011 9:31 PM CDT via iPhone app reply actions
UCLA
We’ll just ignore how well UCLA’s defense is performing against Arizona at the moment (42 points at half).
Could also be used to down play the way the UT OL performed in that game.
I agree
And they didn’t perform that well in the first place. But if you take out the OU game, the line has showed substantial improvement each week.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 20, 2011 10:08 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
O line is rated by you much higher than should be!
17 sacks allowed – most in Big 12!
my grades
I look at it based on what I expected.
QB: C- freshman is starting. Hope GG would make it
RB: A fvckin plus
OL: C.. They struggle, but that was expected. espinosa and cochran coming in. Finally some hope
WR: C+.. Shipley is an A. Davis a C-. I expected the next step.. Waiting for somone else to step up
by codaxx on Oct 20, 2011 10:08 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Stat above says it all
Sacks Allowed – 96th in NCAA, last in the Big 12 – F
TFL Allowed – 101st in NCAA, last in the Big 12 – F
The biggest discrepancy I see in the McCoy vs. Ash debate
is most people are judging McCoy on production and Ash on potential. I agree that Ash seems to have more upside, but until that potential is reached it is just that. To quote Bill Walton, “do not interpret activity for productivity.” I’m pretty sure he got that from John Wooden.
Do not be distracted by what you see, but be transformed by what you believe.
by 2Cor12:9 on Oct 21, 2011 8:18 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
To add to this...
I’m not completely convinced that Ash being the starter has a pronounced effect on his progression as a QB. A meme has started that we must start Ash if we’re looking long term. That may not be necessarily true. Learning in live games has it’s merits if the requisites are there for a quarterback mentally. Alternatively, though, starting a quarterback too early may have unintended consequences (happy feet, timid with the football, etc) longterm.
Of course, I’m not saying that’s what will happen with Ash. But, I think people should at least consider that starting Ash immediately is not the explicitly correct decision for his long term development.
The coaches need to go with the guy who they think gives them the best chance to win now. Ash could develop just fine from the bench, just like many freshmen before him.
All that said, if the staff believes that Ash is the best guy to win now, then this is all irrelevant. My gut thinks this decision is more about Case’s attitude than Ash actually winning the job.
It's not an unreasonable point about a QB losing confidence
But if you asked almost anybody who cares about football whether you improve by playing the game and getting your ass kicked or sitting on the sidelines holding a clipboard and feeling confident, I think 99% would chooser the former.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Apples to apples?
Ash potential vs. McCoy potential isn’t close. Ash production vs. McCoy production is a push. This isn’t Simms-Applewhite because Applewhite produced. McCoy’s only game where he shined was against UCLA. Against that D, we could have rolled out John Paul Floyd and thought he’d be the future.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 21, 2011 12:31 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Ash is bigger, faster, stronger and all that falls under potential.
But can you tell me who reads defenses better? Who has a better feel for his receivers? Who has a better feel in the pocket? I honestly don’t know at this moment, but my point is too many people are seeing the bigger, faster, stronger in Ash and giving him a pass and believing he will eventually read defenses better, will have a better feel for his receivers and will have a better pocket awareness. I believe those three characteristics are more important for our QB than bigger, faster, stronger.
Do not be distracted by what you see, but be transformed by what you believe.
by 2Cor12:9 on Oct 21, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure of he reads defenses better, but he certainly has a better feel for the pocket. He stands and delivers even when he’s about to be hit, and knows when to get out of the pocket. He’s still adjusting to the speed: he was caught from behind by OU several times and held on to the ball a little too long against OSU, but those are fixable moments.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 21, 2011 4:46 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Jeez!
He is a true freshman – come on guys!
He wasn't ripping Ash, he was complimenting him.
He was downplaying and praising Ash for all the things Ash did wrong against 0U. Truly, a dizzying intellect in the continuing saga of Ash vs. McCoy.
Ash production vs McCoy is a push ? I dont think so....
NAME CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A TD INT RAT
David Ash 46 79 459 58.2 5.81 3 4 109.4
Case McCoy 35 53 451 66.0 8.51 2 0 150.0
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 21, 2011 1:25 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
The only game in which Case outperformed Ash is UCLA. You really want that to be what your hanging your QB future on? UCLA is awful. We could have played JP Floyd and thought he’s the guy we want.
BYU Case had more snaps in the bind, but they both played their roles. UCLA was Case. Ash played better against ISU. They both struggled against OU. Really, you can’t argue production when it’s not there.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 21, 2011 4:53 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Your Ash-crush is showing.
“UCLA is awful. We could have played JP Floyd and thought he’s the guy we want.”
So, even when McCoy plays well, it doesn’t matter?! C’mon, man. UCLA is a legit test & a legit team for either QB to play against. They both played … and Case had the bigger impact on the game. Ash has had a bigger impact in other games, too. They’ve both played promisingly and both deserve playing time.
Who played better against who is opinion and subjective....we need to look at the facts (stats)
Thats why I put them up. Like I said, you cant just say Ash was better against ISU….they were both 7-12 and 1 sack each.
I just have a feeling we are going to see more of Case against Kansas. Until one or the other steps up, the carousel is going to continue.
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 21, 2011 7:42 PM CDT reply actions
Stats are not indicative of a better player
Would you rather stick some also-ran RB in the Oregon offense and get him 150 yards a game at 6 yards per carry or would you rather have a star at South Carolina who grinds out 85 yards against LSU, Florida, and Bama week in and week out? Is the Oregon RB by necessity better than the USC one? Is LaMichael James that big of a miss, despite his clearly comparable skillset to Fozzy Whittaker, just because one’s career was ruined by a fraud of a rushing game while the other could sleepwalk to 200 yards against some of the teams he played against in a RB-beneficial system?
Context matters. That is why a subjective approach is important in sports like college football.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
We're not comparing two QB's from different systems
like you are with RB’s. We’re looking at two QB’s who played the same opponents, minus OSU, with the same personnel and same scheme.
Do not be distracted by what you see, but be transformed by what you believe.
by 2Cor12:9 on Oct 21, 2011 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
So, it's a two-game sample size then
Ash ran very specific plays against BYU and UCLA, so throw those games out. OU made them both look like shit. Case didn’t play against OSU. You really think stats are the best way to go here?
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Like Blake said
Context matters. Quality of opponent is huge. There is far more to what a player brings to the game rather than pure numbers, and I’m not talking about intangibles like “moxie” that have somehow been attached to McCoy.
Case had a good stat line against UCLA. But the opponent was awful and disengaged (they never finished a play, evidenced by the long scramble conversion to Mike D and the tipped shoulda-been INT completed to Mike D). Also, despite good statistical outings against UCLA and ISU, Case showed tendencies that would (and did) end up costing us against superior competition. He bailed on pockets early and never protected the football while scrambling.
The two QB system wasn’t going to last forever. The staff had to do a fair share of projection regarding both players’ abilities because we don’t really know what we have in both. They felt, and I agree, that Ash represents the best chance for this team succeed now and in the future.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 21, 2011 8:59 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
audithorn
From the sounds Mack has made this week , he is far from settled on who will be the Qb of the future. Case will be playing next weekend. Not sure you know what they felt.
Mack said the same thing last week
Then Ash played the entire game. He’s being as evasive as possible on the situation. You may be right (though I strongly don’t think so), but listening to Mack speak is not a good indicator either way for what’s going to happen. Most of what he says is intentionally as vague and vapid as humanly possible.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Agree, however in the ongoing dialogue on the QB situation you have to look at everything...including the actual results.
I want nothing more than one of our two boys to step up and win the job on the field, I’m just afraid we may not get this in the next 6 games.
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 21, 2011 8:05 PM CDT reply actions
I am done with the lovefest
I think this team has tons of talent in all aspects of the game but we left a couple touchdowns and games on the field due to over coaching and straight up bad coaching. I understand that our receivers are depleted and it makes it hard to pas, but why twice last game are we passing in the redone and passing 40 times when you are starting a freshman at qb and your tbs are getting over 5 yes a carry. And then half the plays we did run were the failed zone option read or the play w the rb 7 yds deep behind the qb. I swear those 2 plays piss me off almost as much as the Greg Davis screen. We were unstoppable whn lining up and running straight at OKST and yet time and time again we forced ourselves into 3rd and long by trying to get cute. I know Hasins offense has worked elsewhere and maybe he has a long term goal in mind beyond the game but you don’t gotta be a genius to know that when the game is on the line you stick to what work.
I’m still perplexed as to how ash is starting. Must be all about attitude cuz case has made many less mistakes than this guy. I really hope I am wrong and the stud you guys keep telling me about shows up against kansas and for the rest of the season but I don’t wanna se somethin like what we saw last year where the coaches are too stubborn to play case
































