Texas Quarterbacks: McAsh Resurrected
During his Kansas gameweek press conference on Monday, Mack Brown revealed that David Ash and Case McCoy have once again been splitting reps at quarterback barely a week after Ash took every snap against Oklahoma State.
On the depth chart, Ash and McCoy remain co-starters, with Ash's name listed first. Though Brown said last week that competition remained open, it was not clear if Ash was going to be the quarterback moving forward or if the team would return to the McAsh arrangement used after the Garrett Gilbert era crashed to a close against BYU.
It now appears that will be the case and the McAsh resurrection may provide some confirmation for rumors that he was benched against Oklahoma State for attitude issues including refusing to enter the game late against Oklahoma. If true, that situation now appears to be in the past as the team once again moves forward with two quarterbacks.
Brown indicated that the platoon system could continue for the rest of the season, but in the past he has always talked about wanting separation at every position -- if one quarterback plays well enough to earn the job, the coaches almost certainly see that as the best-case scenario.
And despite an outspoken desire to improve the vertical passing game, Brown said Monday that arm strength is one of the least important factors with the quarterbacks -- an area in which McCoy trails Ash significantly. Instead, footwork and mental acumen are higher on the list. McCoy's footwork has been notoriously shoddy, but his so-called moxie and his intangibles still rank as his greatest assets as a quarterback.
Mostly, though, it's going to be about turnovers going forward, as Ash has struggled in the last two games throwing interceptions, while McCoy was not strong with the football in the pocket against Oklahoma.
Ash certainly hasn't done enough on the field to earn the job, a primary complaint for McCoy supporters after Ash started against the Cowboys, but the overriding issue here continues to be that McCoy provides little or no long-term upside at the position. All the upside resides with the much more physically talented Ash.
At some point, Bryan Harsin and company need to determine if Ash can translate those physical skills to consistent production on the field. Whether or not Ash can consistently make good decisions with the football and reduce his interceptions. Whether or not he is the answer to the team's quarterback questions.
Splitting repetitions in practices and games will only slow Ash's development and keep those answers to the questions surrounding his ability to realize his potential unclear for a longer period of time. And while that's more fair to McCoy than giving the job to Ash based on the pure need to see what he can do, it's not clear how the McAsh arrangement helps the quarterback position get to where it needs to be.
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Damn
I was kinda hoping that they were gonna continue to ride the Ash train. Nothing against McCoy, but i liked the fact that one QB played vs Okie State. He didn’t exactly play well, but, I thought it was a step forward into Ash’s development. Hopefully we’ll see improvement in Ash where he can actually be garnished as the QB of Texas.
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
This is not a defense of McCoy
Vince had similar issues during his red shirt Fresh year, and many thought he should move to wide receiver. Case is not carrying as much muscle as Colt was at the same age but there is no reason to believe he can not add some in the off season. The game against UCLA where Case was considered to be the starter wish Ash more in a Tebow role was the best game any of our qb’s have had this season. Ash also has had an emotional hissy type moment or two while on the field, one happened right before his fumble that sealed the OSU loss.
These guys are young. It’s too early to know which one is going to win the QB battle. I played quarterback, it is hard. I don’t mind emotion, winners are winners because they think deserve to win and can’t imagine not doing so. A little ego, attitude, and emotion are fine with me. Keep it open, this is CFB not NFL where we need to develop our 1st rounder. Case’s 3star brother did just fine, and Case is a Soph where Ash is a Fresh. No need to develop one over the other and neither has earned it yet.
by UTSP on Oct 24, 2011 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Didn't notice anything like that about Ash
Where did you get that?
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
when he was getting the play from the sideline
I haven’t watched a tape but if you have one it is after the play before the fumble play. He’s getting the play in from the sideline and he is acting goofy/frustrated kind of way. I wasn’t inspired and or surprised at what followed the next snap. But like I said these guys are young, use to winning, and will improve. I can not begin to imagine what it is like to be playing as a true fresh and soph.
Well
He wasn’t playing particularly well. I’d be pissed too if I were losing.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Me too. I like Ash and have complete confidence in him
I would have expected a full start after UCLA if I were Case though. The fact that he continued to rotate has affected him since, imo, because he put two and two together that the coaches were going to give the more physically talented Ash EVERY opportunity to win the job. I mean, in his first start, the more experienced Case, had what has ended up being the more complete start to date by any Longhorn qb and we hung 49 on UCLA. I think his demeanor changed over the Iowa State game/week when he realized the coaches didn’t think he had done anything Ash couldn’t as of yet. I noticed he had 0 confidence by OU
Geez.
The decision should have already been made for the coaches when McCoy refused to go back in the game. Against OU of all teams. Gimme a break.
is this true? i completely missed this... please provide a link or something
by vanterminatorhorn on Oct 24, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Here is the link.
Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
Burnt Orange Nation
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Oct 24, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Roy, didnt hear about that before
my jaw dropped as I read that her refused to go back into the game… um personality flaw, and I would have released McCoy from his scholarship. The wheels are off for that to happen, no way would our Big 12 peers accept that behavior. wow
So this is worse than DWI, assault against a woman, etc.?
I get that it is a big deal, but compared to some of the other offenses for players still on the team, releasing a kid from a scholarship for making a bad emotional decision in the heat of a game seems really, really petty.
Not an apt comparison
Not saying DWI’s and other off the field transgressions can be condoned in any way, but In the realm of team sports, there are few things viewed worse than quitting…your teammates will forgive a lot of things, but quitting on them is not one.
If the allegation is untrue, I hope an official source debunks it quickly…not that coaches or players should have to refute every rumor that comes their way, but this is a particularly nasty one. It could end his career. It’s that serious…you’re talking about a position that requires 100% total trust from your teammates.
If it is true, losing a scholarship is the least of his worries.
@longhorn54b
Pure rumor and speculation
Shuttlesworth’s Cigar and Asset are always a fun read, but dont make the mistake of taking it for gospel.
I think this is the right attitude
There’s generally a bias evident in the writing, and while it’s fine to enjoy the articles, it’s important to bring a salt shaker.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 24, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course not.
They’ve been spot on with about 99.9% of their predictions, but I can see why this particular issue is conveniently ignored by our awesome fanbase.
by Hippie Killer on Oct 24, 2011 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I just love it when
Our fanbase is split. So much fun.
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SECede?....Whoop(s)!!
Which parts were whiffs?
Not calling you out, I just would like clarification, please. :)
Eight Walls a new MMA blog from Fantake
Follow me on Twitter
Follow Eight Walls on Twitter
SECede?....Whoop(s)!!
Pretty spot on in the OU game
They even booked the Onyegbule reverse pass debacle.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
I am calling you out 55f100tx
Can you be more specific on what they whiffed on?
by Hippie Killer on Oct 25, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
There aren't a whole lot of details known about the alleged incident
Third- and fourth-hand reports at best.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 24, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Meh
Unless my eyes are lying to me, the game tape shows Mack bitching at McCoy after McCoy started to whine during the OU game.
In the middle of the Freaking OU game…McCoy decides he needs his ego massaged. Screw that. Ash should start for the rest of the season and if we lose every game so be it…that’s what happens when you have freshmen QB.
by Hippie Killer on Oct 24, 2011 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think I've seen anything indicating Mack bitching at McCoy
But then, I also missed this supposed gesture people say McCoy made to Harsin in the box.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 24, 2011 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry man.
I deleted the game already.
But there was a point in the OU game when Case came off the field and Mack was chewing him out on the sideline.
by Hippie Killer on Oct 25, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the collective metaphor is mixed
Which, just btw, is a great example of why we shouldn’t even be worrying about this kind of crap.
I never saw any motion of McCoy up to the press box during the OU game. I did see that during the ISU game (I want to say in the 3rd quarter), followed by what looked like an ass-chewing from Brown on the sideline. It was pre-supposed by the fan base that McCoy’s gesture during the ISU game was the result of being upset over getting pulled out. There was never any confirmation or denial of that either officially or unofficially.
Whatever the outburst, and whatever the cause of it, it was dealt with as it should be — from coach to player. Likewise whatever OU drama.
I would appreciate if you and anyone else who wishes to relate this allegation in a comment would quote the source.
I can’t tell you how reckless this is, particularly if it’s not true.
When people read your comment above, they’ll read it as fact…it comes off as completely different when you find out it wasn’t alleged by an official source, but rather a 3rd party who refuses to identify him or herself.
@longhorn54b
by 54b on Oct 24, 2011 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
rec'd
100% agreed
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 24, 2011 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Didn't somebody post a link to the story?
What am I missing?
by Hippie Killer on Oct 24, 2011 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, but only after it was requested
My comment was meant for future postings as I’ve no doubt this will be referenced again at some point.
You’re welcome to sing the praises of whomever you’d like, just cite them when you do…unless you have first hand knowledge and are willing to report it as such.
@longhorn54b
There's a link, sure, but I could link you to any site saying anything, and that wouldn't make it true
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 24, 2011 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions
If that's your standard burntorangehorn...
you might as well get off the internet.
Posters aren’t journalists dude. Weblinks are used quite effectively in the blogosphere.
by Hippie Killer on Oct 25, 2011 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
We certainly look like we're doing our damndest to start a QB controversy.
Greg Davis haikus; a lot like his offenses; always go sideways.
by pleaseplaykindle on Oct 24, 2011 1:13 PM CDT reply actions
The only thing with two heads...
….is a monster.
by longhornfan7628 on Oct 24, 2011 1:22 PM CDT reply actions
and that can be good or bad...
monster according to your team or the opposition, that’s the key. For UCLA it was them, for OU it was us.
by LonghorninRaiderland on Oct 24, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
We take 1 step forward then 2 Steps back
If Ash can figure it all out he’s the man. Work with the guy who has the physical tools to get the job done, not one who’s arm isn’t as good as most JV qb’s
I think we'll see Ash get the major majority of the snaps.
McCoy hasn’t played in 2 weeks. I’m hoping this is a break out game for Ash.
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
This
Makes my week… McCoy is better than ash and the coaches know it… Ash turns the ball over too much… We won’t beat anybody but Kansas if ash keeps throwing it to the other team and fumbling…. McCoy doesn’t have a big arm but that’s overrated. The team rallies around McCoy. With ash they just wait for the next turnover
by drobe86 on Oct 24, 2011 1:32 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
WTH?
dude you can’t be serious right? If the coaches “knew” McCoy was better than Ash, you think they really would have gone with these special Ash “packages” so he could see the field??
Umm no, the coaches know that McCoy is obviously not the answer and is just waiting on Ash to develop and take the starter spot permanently. Of course the coaches want Ash to do it sooner but he’s just a freshman so it’s gonna take some time.
For whatever reason,
He’s got a major Stiffie for McCoy.
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
who knows, Check the stats on Rivals.
Ash hasnt helped himself, besides the turnovers, he has 110 yards in sacks. McCoy has 25 yards in sacks.Rivals has the Qb stats up to look at, McCoy averages 8.5 yards per pass, Ash just a little over 5 per pass play. Completion rates Ash is in the 50’s McCoy is in the 60’s. If you had never seen these two in person, by the stats it wouldnt be close.
Folks are looking at Ash saying he has a big upside,and dont pay attention to how below average he has played, as if McCoy has peaked and wont ever be any better.
Im not saying he wont get better, but you have to be carefull making projections based on body type and arm strength. We did that last year.
by 55f100tx on Oct 24, 2011 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
But also be careful
About drawing conclusions of one vs the other based on stat line. The bulk of Ash’s snaps have now come against OU and OSU. Those two teams represent a bit tougher competition than BYU, UCLA or Iowa St
C'mon
I want McCoy to start in front of Ash, for the obvious reason that I know who is the better QB and has the potential to become a playmaker for you, and who is the ineffectual rag-arm with a huge ego who will hinder your offensive productivity.
only because for unknown reason
PB doesnt ban you, however deserving you are. Nobody here could post half the crap on your “blog” that you post here and not be banned, but we already knew that didnt we?
Because being a Texas fan means never having to say you're sorry.
by dukeoforange on Oct 25, 2011 6:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it is good for a young QB to come out and watch a couple series from the sideline
Get a little different vantage point on the defense and have Major/Harsin in his ear while he is watching.
No idea of this is the reasoning behind the move back to 2 QB’s playing, but might end up being better long term.
The correct answer is none of the above
It pains me to say it but I’ll repeat my statement from before the season: The next championship quarterback has not yet taken a snap at the University of Texas.
That said, every week we don’t name a clear-cut starter for the remainder of the season is a week that adds to divisions in the locker room. And it hurts us next season, when Harsin’s hand-picked QB arrives on campus, along with the bonanza of high-quality recruits that he helped bring to the program. Who do you think those guys will want to see under center?
Moving forward I still like Ash. Saying arm strength is overrated for a quarterback is like saying putting is overrated for a golfer.
Simplicity is always the secret, to a profound truth, to doing things, to writing, to painting. Life is profound in its simplicity. - Charles Bukowski
Colt's arm strength was worthy of similar criticism when he was in his second year with the program
He definitely played better than his brother, but he had some established players around him, and he and the vast majority of other players on the offense were not in their first season in the scheme.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 24, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And arm strength might just earn Colt a one-way ticket out of Cleveland
From the Plain-Dealer:
Arm strength is considered one of Cleveland Browns quarterback Colt McCoy’s weaknesses, and that appears to be showing up in the NFL passing statistics. McCoy has completed just 4 of 17 (23.5 percent) of his attempts longer than 20 yards, according to ESPN Stats & Information; Cleveland has only eight offensive plays longer than 20 yards, fewest in the league.
Listen, you will see a bigger Colt McCoy fan than me. It’s even more clear today than it was when he was in Austin that his intelligence and savvy made up for a troubling host of offensive problems — the O-line being the biggest one.
But we need to forget Case’s last name. Last week, when Ash bootlegged right, saw no one was open, then scooted for 15 yards — quickly — I said to myself, “That’s our QB.” Sink or swim, we need to go with the guy who opens up more pages in the playbook. A true freshman is going to throw picks. It happens to all of them. The only way those are going to go away is with more reps.
Simplicity is always the secret, to a profound truth, to doing things, to writing, to painting. Life is profound in its simplicity. - Charles Bukowski
by windycityhorn on Oct 24, 2011 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I see most of the Brown's games and amount of time the Brown's QB has to
throw a pass can be measured in fractions of a second…..thus making any long throw almost impossible. As such the coaching staff calls a high precentage of short pass plays.
Great players make great coaches, but great coaches make champions." DKR circa 1964
here are Colts stats through this Sunday
Passes under 20 yds..201 with 116 complete for 58%
Pases over 20 yds……….16 with 5 complete for 31%
Just for grins here are Tom Brady’s numbers
Passes under 20 yds..172 with 124 complete for 72%
Pases over 20 yds…………9 with 7 complete for 78%
Note that Colt has thrown more “long” passes than the great Tom Brady.
Of course Brady has much better completion percentage and much better protection.
Great players make great coaches, but great coaches make champions." DKR circa 1964
The Browns are total shit, man.
You can’t blame the QB for that. He barely has time to throw and his receivers are utter shit. He has no running back and his O-line is absolutely atrocious.
Because we're Texas and we're evil. DUH.
by iamjackburton on Oct 24, 2011 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
This is all true, but you're forgetting that there's a huge difference between CFB and NFL
Colt’s arm was perfectly acceptable for running a college offense, and if you’ll recall, he worked out to put on some great weight between his freshman and sophomore seasons. He put on even more the next off-season. His arm was never strong, and still isn’t today, but it was fine for college. It might not be fine for some NFL offenses.
Of course, another thing to consider for his NFL career is that the Browns really don’t have much for receivers. If $Cam had targets that bad, he wouldn’t be in the top ten in yardage. The Browns are also terrible at running the ball, as evidenced by the fact that Colt’s rushing average is about the same as Hardesty’s and Hillis’. Shurmur was definitely an underwhelming hire.
At any rate, apples to oranges. Most NFL offenses have a significantly different standard for arm strength.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 24, 2011 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
apples and oranges
Colt has a bad arm, still much stronger than Case’s arm. Secondly,, Colt is in a west coast offense that puts a premium on accuracy in short to medium throws. Also is stress on WR’s to rack up the YAC. Harsin systen is not a 3 step passing offense. He features the deep ball, so I weak arm is exposed to a much greater extent
No one's arguing that the arm strength doesn't represent a liability
But Ash comes with his own set of liabilities, such as holding on to the ball a really long time and poor accuracy.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 24, 2011 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions
stats
were pretty much dead-even until OSU game. I didn’t see anything different in the stat lines up until then. Granted Case got to throw more vs BYU and UCLA. ISU game both threw an equal amount and Ash came out on top. If Case actually showed more field awareness I would be happy with it. If we grade the 2 on being a field general I woudl give Ash a 3 and McCoy a 4. Both below average, but Ash has more potential and he was in high school last yr. You would think his learning curve would be steeper
Accuracy
There’s the rub. What Colt had in spades was accuracy. I haven’t seen it from either QB.
I think it was UCLA, when they were both trading series, whenI saw throws from each guy that made me cringe. McCoy missed an easy dumpoff on a screen to the RB that would have gone for good yardage. And Ash missed a wide open Shipley streaking in the slot.
If a play is breaking down and has to be made, I prefer McCoy. If I need someone to throw it 40 yards into the hands of a streaking Mike Davis, it’s Ash. Regardless who plays, he’s my QB and I will support him. But I like Ash. A lot of folks feel strongly that it should be McCoy. I don’t want to attack that opinion. All I want is for the team to regain a measure of respect this season, and figure out the quarterback situation — definitevely — before we play the Aggies. Is that too much to ask?
Simplicity is always the secret, to a profound truth, to doing things, to writing, to painting. Life is profound in its simplicity. - Charles Bukowski
by windycityhorn on Oct 24, 2011 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions
It seems to be, I guess
Thing is, the RB position floundered for what seemed like the better part of a decade like this. Now it’s the QB position, and it doesn’t really seem to have a definite end in sight yet. It takes time to implement a system, and I understand that, but you’d think the ostensible genius of harsinwhite would be able to cobble together a gameplan that would take the pressure off the extremely immature QBs. Hasn’t happened.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 24, 2011 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes but Texas doesnt play in the NFL
There is a reason Case is listed as co starter this week, 110 yards in sacks given up by Ash. It has wiped out any positive yardage he has made. Throw that on top of the picks and low pass completion %, Mack wants to win some games this year.
temporary girlfriend
I agree, windy, neither of these guys has shown he’s got what it takes. They might and they might get better, but right now they are both really raw.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
Anyone else remember how miserable that season felt?
and we finished 10-3. I would love to feel “that kind of bad” again. We’re so spoiled.
by LonghorninRaiderland on Oct 24, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
It definitely finished on a down note, too.
After the due drubbing from the Buckeyes, they looked like potential Big 12 champions, right up until that goal line series against Ron Prince.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 24, 2011 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
if it was true what mccoy did in the ou game
he’s a punk. he should be suspended even longer and have to earn his PT back. i’m sure most people played sports in HS. if one person pulled a stunt like that, how would that make you feel as a teammate?
that would piss me off. his attitude screams prima donna.
The line
Sucks.. McCoy Didn’t wanna go out there and keep getting stroked… McCoy is the best qb on this team… They handed ash the spot and he failed. Ash turns the ball over better than any qb in the NCAA…
by drobe86 on Oct 24, 2011 1:56 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree with u "drobe86"...
Case gives the team the best option at qb because his completion%, ability to avoid the sack (with the exception of the ou beating) and make something out of nothing like he did in both the byu game &ucla…it sends like do many ppl have a man crush on Ash because of his physical attributes(which our former qb gg had), ppl that know football well know that most teams in college or the pros make a living off short intermediate passing game because db’s these days are far too good to allow a qb to throw deep multiple times a game.
I truly believe that the rumors of Case not wanting to go back in the ou game were completely made up by the many Ash supporters that want to justify all those ints Ash has thrown as to why he should be the starter
It's hard being a Longhorn fan in the state of Oklahoma!!
by okhornfan on Oct 24, 2011 3:09 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Could've been made up, or it could be that there are two sides
And really, there are always two sides to the story.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 24, 2011 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions
ability to avoid the sack (with the exception of the ou beating)
so basically he is good vs JUCO schools, but not so much vs legit competition
Yea...
I don’t understand the hate for McCoy… For some reason people don’t think he has what it takes to play major college ball… Yet, he’s completed 60 percent of his passes, completes Over 8 yards per throw, and thrown 2 td and 0 int… Sure it doesn’t look pretty but his numbers tell me he’s effective. Ash just takes sacks, throws int, and fumbles… So what if he’s bigger and has more arm strength. At the end of the day he’s more effective. And nobody can tell me different. Men and women lie, numbers don’t…..
by drobe86 on Oct 24, 2011 8:02 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
you're right
Numbers dont lie….and they say Case cant hit the broadside of a M1 Abrams if over 20 yards away
formerly "Horns102591"
So why
Does case’ stat line say he can play and ash’ stat line suck? If his arm is so strong why is he averaging 5 yards per pass? If ash is good why does he have 5 turnovers the last 2 games? Tell me what you see on tape. Because I’ve watched every game this season and I’m not seeing what you guys see….
by drobe86 on Oct 24, 2011 8:39 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
well for one i can go to MBTF.com and see where it says "Freshman" next to David's name
for another David Ash gives you the vertical threat. when he’s in teams have to account for it when Case is in they just have to stay in coverage for about 20 yards because he cant throw it beyond that. part of the fumble problem is the O Line not holding their blocks for long enough that’ll be corrected in a few seasons (but wait you were bashing Searels so we’ll probably suck on O Line still) and maybe you ae forgetting that both OU and OSU were top 5 teams when we played them. Case has a ceiling to what he can do. Ash doesnt he has the potential to be a BCS Title caliber QB. but its ok if you dont believe me. in 2013 when he wins a National Championship you can come back and say you were wrong and we were all right
formerly "Horns102591"
And
Maybe you’re right. But who wants to wait until 2013 to win when we have the talent to win now…. Look I get what you’re saying about ash. Physically he looks the part. He has a high ceiling and may get better. However, no one is taking into consideration that he will stay the same or get worse. People said the same things theyre saying about ash about gg… Did gg get better from yr 1 to yr 3? No… He had all the physical tools as well… I’m not saying McCoy is leading us to a national title. I’m saying that as of right now he gives the best chance to win. And the numbers bear that…
by drobe86 on Oct 24, 2011 9:11 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
dude talent has to develope you cant expect players to come in out of high school and be at their best
thats whats refreshing about this young team the young guys are playing well and they havent even hit their true potential yet. you need to stop expecting instant results this isnt NCAA Football 12. and stop comparing Ash to GG there is no comparison (at least no FAIR comparison) GG had a whole year to play and a whole offseason Ash has had 6 games and only taken 100% of the QB snaps for 1.
formerly "Horns102591"
You're resorting to some really extensive hyperbole when you say that Case can't throw 20
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 24, 2011 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions
"If his arm is so strong why is he averaging 5 yards per pass?"
How many passes over 20 yds have been completed this season? We have no real deep threat right now. Until someone steps up/comes off the injured list, we have no one that can stretch the field or create separation. On top of that, the OL isn’t giving either QB a chance to allow a deep route to develop or for a WR to create serparation.
by LonghorninRaiderland on Oct 25, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd rather have a guy who can't complete the >20yd. passes very well...
As long as he’s hitting the <20yd. passes. Ash really wasn’t doing that.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 24, 2011 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions
id rather have the guy who at least gives the offense the ability to hit those deep passes we've all known for awhile that Case doesnt have the arm for the deep throw
and he got more than his fair share of lucky breaks. that pass to Davis against UCLA its a miracle that he wasnt sacked and he was ineffective against ISU im just saying lets give Ash a fair shot
formerly "Horns102591"
STATS
So both QBs split 2 games. These are the 2 best comparisons (OU and ISU)
McCoy: 16 – 28 226 yds, 0 tds, 2 fumbles, 57.1% comp, 8.07 per att
Ash: 18 – 32 252 yds, 3 TDs, 2 int, 56.3% comp, 7.88 per att
so completion percentage and yds per attempt are pretty even. McCoy has 2 turnovers and 0 TDs…
What in those stats leads you to believe that McCoy has the better stats.
A fumble is a fumble. Rewarding a player because of a lucky break when it gets on the ground isn't fair to either player.
Ash has had 3 fumbles in the last 2 games. It’s not as if he intentionally fumbled in a good spot where he knew his team would recover the ball. Putting the ball on the ground is the issue. The players shouldn’t be evaluated on the recovery, as it’s such an erratic event.
biased
I agree with that statement, but then we are punishing fumbles. We count the UCLA play as a TD, not a sure int. Just using the results in an unbiased manner. Comparing the 2 QBSs in games with equal time and vs same opponent. I dont think there is anything in those stats that are remotely biased
Um?
I agree with that statement, but then we are punishing fumbles.
Shouldn’t we be “punishing” fumbles? That’s clearly not a good thing.
Also, you just listed them as “fumbles”. Well, Ash did in fact have two fumbles against OU.
The competition seems neck and neck to me, despite the obvious physical gap between the two. I think OSU was a disciplinary thing. Based on what we’re hearing, it would appear that the coaches think the same thing as well.
So you understand my position, I’m not calling for one or the other. I just haven’t seen enough from Ash to be happy with him being given the job. He hasn’t “won it” in my eyes (and apparently the coaches for that matter). I hope he can, as that’s obviously best for the program in the long run with his skill set.
my pt
Is you are saying you need to punish fumbles recovered by Texas, but not interceptions dropped. Since I dont feel like figuring out the later I am just using the actual turnovers. More importantly look at TDs.
I can agree with you that Ash hasnt been stellar and hasnt created seperation. I am just arguing against the “Case has better stats” crowd. I put that up there to show the similarities in stats vs like competition. I would err on the side of talent in the case of similar stats. I know that is unpopular on a Texas boards, because Colt has the fan base believing that talent is a bad thing. That despite the only title seen in the lives many posters was delivered by a physical freak of nature.
Ash doesn't pass the eyeball test for me, though.
Generally, I’m a numbers guy, so I hate using anecdotes like that. Still, I’m terrified when he has the ball. Even though McCoy may not have the tangibles that Ash does, I’m much more comfortable that he’s going the correct place with the ball.
My hope is that this is youth for Ash, and he’ll come to grips with this offense as the defensive schedule weakens and the game starts to slow down. I think it’s important that one of them clearly wins this job though. One needs to separate himself in real games, not in practice. I fear if it doesn’t work out that way we’ll be dealing with this circus for the next 2 years at a minimum.
i do question
that coaches starting him vs OSU. They are top 5 and 20th in the nation in passing efficiency. Very off time to throw a kid in to start a nationally televised game. You would have thought they would have waited until Kansas
But if speculation is correct about McCoy in the OU game...
why play a kid who doesn’t want to play in what is the biggest game of the year thus far. I’m not saying the incedent happened, again, just speculation on my part. If in fact it was a disciplinary action why put it of until we face a weaker opponent?
by LonghorninRaiderland on Oct 25, 2011 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
but if true
I dont understand giving him snaps 1 game later. That would look very weak, but perhaps it is don’t bite your nose off to spite your face. Perhaps worried Case shuts it down and we are stuck with 1 QB. God, that is a scary thought.
Agreed.
If I had a player that refused to go back onto the field, I wouldn’t trust the kid, and I wouldn’t want him back. As a player, I wouldn’t follow him either. Other than a few good friends who probably know he’s wrong but won’t admit it, who would follow somebody like that? Texas, unfortunately, is in a pickle because they don’t have the depth or luxury of telling him to hit the road. It’s that pickle which also dictates that they continue to get reps for the starter and his backup because one injury could mean hanging your hopes on the other guy. It’s not a good place to be right now. The best thing that could happen to Texas is to make it to a bowl game and get more reps before the spring, but at this point, even a bowl game is uncertain.
by Inveigled&Foozled on Oct 24, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep, so extremely surprised
You would think the coaches would immediately tell him to go to the lockerroom and get lost. I hope the story is being twisted somehow and isn’t the whole truth.
We're Texas, We're not OK.
The real answer of course
Is that the fanbase should completely ignore these rumors and focus on how both kids play on the field. Maybe given the amount of traction this nonsense has gotten in the fanbase, Shuttlesworth owes either a retraction or a further examination to the masses. But truly, the real answer is for the fanbase to stfu about it and let these coaches run their unit how they run their unit.
bigger problem
to me the quarterback situation will take the entire season to play out as neither is ready to play fulltime.the bigger problem is that no changes have been made on defense.how bad are the backup linebackers that no matter how many times the 3 starters refuse to make tackles in the running game that they still continue to start.all 3 have proven over and over that they will not step into the hole and take on a running back headon.they also cant cover in the passing game so my question continues to be why is diaz not holding them accountable.HOOK`EM
LHN announces a new series called, "Three's Company"
Ash, McCoy and Shipley are all roommates living together at a time when the dual QB system is considered taboo…let’s watch as the hilarity ensues:
PILOT EPISODE – “The Hands Team”
(Open on a tense scene in the breakfast nook…Shipley is sitting at the table plowing through a bowl of cereal while Ash and McCoy wait by the toaster for their Eggos to pop up…none of the boys are talking due to missed “sock on the doorknob” sign which led to an illegal cock block the night before…the silence is broken only when the first Eggo pops up)
McCoy: “Hey, I was here first, that’s my Eggo.”
Ash: “Um, 2nd stringers get the 2nd Eggo.”
McCoy: “Not cool…let me have it or I’ll move to another apartment.”
Ash: “Bye. I was tired of sharing a bunk bed with you anyway.”
Shipley: “Will you both shut up…and someone pass me the Frosted Minis.”
(Both Ash and McCoy reach for the box of cereal, but Ash wrestles it away.)
Ash: “Ha, get some bigger hands and maybe you won’t fumble so much.”
(Ash then tosses the cereal to Shipley, but his pass is low causing Shipley to fall out of his chair)
McCoy: “Ha, try hitting a receiver in the hands for once.”
Ship: “I’m moving in with Fozzy.”
@longhorn54b
by 54b on Oct 24, 2011 2:09 PM CDT reply actions 6 recs
Stay tuned for scenes from our next episode where the landlord, Old Freak Nasty, pays the boys a visit.
@longhorn54b
I demand that this become a weekly post with new episodes and new characters
maybe a cameo from GDGD and GG? who knows but this thing has potential. MAKE IT HAPPEN CAP’N!!
Because being a Texas fan means never having to say you're sorry.
by dukeoforange on Oct 24, 2011 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions
dislike
We manage to make this Tim Tebow drama look like nothing compared to having 4 QBs in fall practice, two transfer, one quits during the OU game, and one is a true freshman. Go with Ash, and let Case do mop up duty in the 4th.
I'd rather give mop up duty to Mykkelle Thompson.
Texas players don’t quit on their team
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
case
This isn’t some kind of little league game either, this is Texas football. I decided I didn’t want to play one of my 4th grade little league games once, my dad took me off the team. Then told me I had to pay the 50 bucks to register for next season if I wanted to ever play again. I know this is just a rumor, but if that’s the situation then it’s unaccepted conduct by a 4th grader let alone a college athlete.
messed up my post somehow but
We manage to make this Tebow drama look like nothing compared to our situation. We had 4 QBs in fall camp, two transfer, one quits during the OU game, and one is a true freshman. Go with Ash and let Case do the mop up duty.
and you dont know if any of thats true.
unnamed source tells a 3rd party and its taken as fact? Does anybody know who the leak is? Or if he is a liar, or the story is a complete fabrication ? What if this same leak gave away the game plan to Bob Stoops ? He sure looked like he knew our plays. I find it ridiculous that people believe whatever is printed.
Off-topic, but a funny Twitter post from Adrian Phillips
I asked #davidash why he’s so weird and he replied the real question is why isn’t everyone else like me o__O lmaoo
I don’t think it would matter who was taking the snaps if the O-line could pass block consistently. Up in Boise, Kellen Moore has alllllll day to throw the ball, even against an SEC defense who, by any SEC estimation should not lose outside of their conference. When a freshman and sophomore QB have to rush the decision making, turnovers happen. It won’t matter who is under center if they can’t preserve the pocket long enough for the routes to develop down field.
We're Just Not That Good -- YET
I hate to keep telling people this, but this team, this year, is NOT THAT GOOD. Iowa St. gave that game away in the first half, and UCLA is just atrocious. Rice? Don’t even pretend that was an actual NCAA football team. Fact is, this team hasn’t done well against a team with a pulse yet. They will easily beat Kansas, but then again, anyone would easily beat Kansas.
As such, allowances to their weakness must be made for 2011 in hopes of improving in 2012. This is a rebuilding year, simple as that. They say you don’t rebuild in Texas, you reload. Well, they didn’t see what happened in 2010. That was a lost year. We’re rebuilding now.
We need to choose a QB and stick with it until he proves, without a shadow of a doubt, that he can’t play and can’t progress ala GG in 2010.
Because we're Texas and we're evil. DUH.
by iamjackburton on Oct 24, 2011 3:01 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
you are really willing to lose the next 6 games to prove Ash is GGll ?
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 24, 2011 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Stop it
Look, I get that with neither guy actually stepping up, arguments over who should play end up being more about how the “other” guy is bad. But BS like “GGII” need to stop now. If McCoy starts and/or plays on Saturday then he’s my QB as much as anyone’s, and if Ash plays he’s your QB as much as anyone’s. The rest belongs in the land of douchey.
by tx2step on Oct 24, 2011 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I couldn't agree more
The GG pt 2 BS needs to stop now.
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SECede?....Whoop(s)!!
People would stop if Ash's defenders would stop saying...
…“he’s got all the tools”, “he’s go tall the upside”, “he’s got a stronger arm”… as the only excuse to start him over McCoy. It’s all the same stuff that was used to justify why we kept starting GG for an entire year and two games into 2011.
Because we're Texas and we're evil. DUH.
by iamjackburton on Oct 24, 2011 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions
No
The comparison is wrong on ALL levels. People base how a freshman played against 2 top 5 teams and then make a false connection.
If a comparison is to be made, its that Case is NOT Colt, and I do not expect him to ever be. He does not have the moxie, he does not have the athletic ability, and he doesn’t have the on field awareness. Even if the attitude problems are false (which I doubt they are. If Scipio and Sailor endorse Jesus, then so do I) he doesn’t have the ability to do what our offensive coordinator asks him to do. I’m not saying that Ash does right now, but Case can’t and that’s the bottom line for me.
Ash gives us the best chance to move forward as an offensive juggernaut for the next few years, whereas I feel Case can not.
It’s all the same stuff that was used to justify why we kept starting GG for an entire year and two games into 2011.
I highly disagree. Who was going to displace Garrett last year? Two freshmen in Case and Connor? One of those is gone, and the other can’t beat out a true freshman this year for the starting gig. Garrett Gilbert started the first two games this year because he won the starting job this summer. He was given a shot, and it didn’t work out for him. Big deal. He’ll move on, and I wish him the best.
If the coaches want to keep the QB battle going on, then by all means, thats great. I may not agree with it, but I also know that I am a paramedic, not a damn football coach, so I’m more than happy to see what transpires. I don’t get paid to make such claims, but as a fan, I still will. What I will not do as a fan, is condemn a frosh QB who throws 4 picks in 2 games against top 5 teams, and designate him as a failure (calling him GiGi 2).
Iamjackburton, this is not in a specific reply to you, so please don’t offense, but this is to all who are unhappy with who we are as a team, and more specifically the QB position.
I get it. We’re Texas and our expectations are always sky high, so its understandable to have plenty of folks rubbing their vagina in anguish over a 4-2 start, but folks…
Take a step back…
This was expected. We’re right on track on where we want to be. Once we get our guys some experience and reps in the systems that our new coordinators have in place, we’re going to be fine. Let the pieces fall where they may, and enjoy the ride. It may not always be pretty, but that happens after 5-7. There is ALOT to be excited about if you’re a Texas football fan, and if you can’t see that, I’m sorry.
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SECede?....Whoop(s)!!
by kriess on Oct 25, 2011 4:33 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Barker rumors, The Barkers may be being played by informant
Houston paper as of yesterday is reporting Case is getting 50% of the rep’s in practice. I don’t care what coach you have, that would not be happening if the rumors were true , at most he would only be getting backup reps in case of emergency. Facts will eventually overcome wrong information.
First off
I’ll take the Barkers, BON, or even my senile grandfather’s opinion over the Houston Comical.
Secondly, it makes sense for Case to be getting 50% of the snaps in practice this week. It was a QB competition, and Case had an attitude problem on the field. When looking back our coach’s history, a one game suspension seems about fair. Its not nearly as bad as DUI or assault.
For those who think Case needs to be kicked off the team, get over yourself. This is a 19 year old kid who got upset, paid the price, and seems to have been given a second chance at the starting gig.
Thirdly, you have zero way of verifying anything unless it is first hand information. This internet stuff is pretty serious business, eh? The Barkers may be wrong, they may be right, who cares? They’re spot on with pretty much every other “speculation”, so that’s why I buy what they’re selling. Of course its taken with a grain of salt, but then again Realignment has taught us, EVERYTHING is to be taken that way.
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SECede?....Whoop(s)!!
Not good enough
The fact that one fan — or set of them — acts douchey doesn’t mean your or I or anyone else should. And that goes for “both” sides of this debate. If you can’t make an argument for what you think should happen without resorting to name calling and vitriol (at the players I mean; vitriol among the fans is perfectly ok) then just sit quietly and wait for it to play out.
Yes. I don't like it, but I'm willing to accept it.
What do you think, we’re going to challenge for the Big 12? Really? With OU, OKState, and KSTate around?
Wake up. It’s time to accept reality and rebuild and find out who has it and who doesn’t.
Because we're Texas and we're evil. DUH.
by iamjackburton on Oct 24, 2011 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions
doesnt mean you cant win in the process
improvement every week is the name of the game, learning how to win is part of it.
Forget the rumors
The OU game was a debacle and bad for everyone. It’s somewhat understandable given the youth of this team that all kinds of rumor and innuendo come out of a loss like that; but the fans are not doing this team any favors either by (a) repeating the rumor over and over or (b) alleging that the rumor was started by “Ash supporters.” Discussing specific plays is one thing, but the rest is nonsense. We have an almost entirely new coaching staff this year, and it seems perfectly appropriate, even necessary, for the fans to give the staff the benefit of the doubt when it comes to running their locker room.
With that all said, I think the grossly short pass to a wide-open Davis in the OU game is what is giving most of us pause as to McCoy’s footwork and/or arm strength. Arm strength is not a theoretical thing, and it’s not “overrated” when it keeps the QB from completing a TD throw.
The two OU plays that I found much more concerning than arm strength or footwork were (1) the reverse-pass with MO with a wide-open receiver downfield, which goes for a TD if McCoy blocks the lineman in the backfield; and (2) the slide a full 3 yards ahead of the first-down marker. Both of those made me question (and continue to make me question) whether he has the heart to be out on the field.
isu game
OU rumors cant be verified, but we all saw the antics in the ISU game. That was where my opinion turned. OU is forgiveable. You get your ass handed to you by your biggest rival, so emotions are high. You complain while you are blowing out ISU, that is unacceptable. That is simply being about your self.
our fans didn't do Gilbert any favors...
why do you think it will be any different for McCoy or Ash?
by Hippie Killer on Oct 24, 2011 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
You mean with really rallying behind him with things like Gigi?
I don’t suppose I actually have any hope that it will be different; I just strongly believe that it should be different.
The "Gigi" thing is so aggie
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Oct 24, 2011 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I logged in,
just to tell you how effing lame you are for using the “Gigi” nickname.
Jesus Christ, you are exactly the type of fan I hate sitting within 20 feet of at every game I go to.
Official Member of the Joe Bergeron Fan Club
Please look up at his "rec'd" comment above
He doesn’t mean GiGi to be condescending, but rather he’s condescending to the morons who use that type of name.
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SECede?....Whoop(s)!!
Should read the comment more closely
He’s clearly denigrating those who use the Gigi insult.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
The whole point was the idiocy of using Gigi as a monikor
I was agreeing that the fanbase was just plain awful to Gilbert and expressing my firm desire that we (the fans) NOT do that again.
If you’re going to log in just to comment on something that pisses you off, you might want to do yourself the favor or reading the comment first.
Answering burntorangehorn...
Exactly what I’m talking about. You hit the nail on the head. That and the booing and constant criticism while conveniently ignoring every factor of his suckitude here. Our fans are awesome.
by Hippie Killer on Oct 25, 2011 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions
To me it's even worse than aggie
For all of the dumassery, jackassery and asshatery of aggie fans, and Bevo knows there’s plenty, they’re generally loyal fans who generally support their players. At a bare fucking minimum, they don’t boo them off the field, which I saw and heard happen at the BYU game.
We're in violent agreement
I saw the ISU thing too; It affected my view of him too; and it’s a perfectly fair thing to raise. I’d still argue it’s worse in your biggest rivalry game to watch a defensive lineman run right past you and slide ahead of the marker because you don’t want to get hit; but otherwise totally agree.
My pt
Was I can see someone losing it during a bad game. It is not acceptable, but you can at least understand it. I have an issue when you are upset that you aren’t playing enough while the team is rolling. That is hard to understand
This whole discussion is unbelievable....
Unsubstantiated rumors….please ladies and gentlemen. The only place this is going to be solved is on the field. Let the coaches make the decision and they apparently are having as much trouble as we are, and have decided to let the performance in the games decide it.
We are fortunate to have Kansas on Saturday so we can see the next episode of 54B’s Threes Company" or “As the Quarterback Turns”.
Hopefully one of our two boys will step up and play a perfect game, or close to it, and we will have our answer. The probability of this is not positive, and we will probably have another episode aggainst the sooner slayers…..SO BE IT !
Let the “on the field performance” answer the coaches delimma.
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 24, 2011 4:39 PM CDT reply actions
So much fucking drama
You’d think we were Days of Our Lives fans instead of watching football. People need to get a grip.
If that was the case then McCoy would get the chance to start this week
And play the whole game. Ash got his shot, why shouldn’t McCoy?
Because we're Texas and we're evil. DUH.
by iamjackburton on Oct 24, 2011 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Yup
Ash gets his shot at the #3 team in the nation, McCoy gets his shot at the #115 team in the nation. Seems about right.
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SECede?....Whoop(s)!!
There is no correlation between spelling and Intelligence...sorry (Dilemma)
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 24, 2011 4:42 PM CDT reply actions
Let this sink in. I mean really let this fact sink in to your brain.
Texas is the only FBS school to have freshmen leading in pass attempts (Ash), rushes (Brown), and receptions (Shipley). Really think about what that means for an offense in a conference as difficult as the Big 12.
Who are you?!
I'm Kick Ass!
Per Samantha Steele on Twitter
Who are you?!
I'm Kick Ass!
by TexasGarcia37 on Oct 24, 2011 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
What, that were lucky to be 4-2 ?
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 24, 2011 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't call it luck
But outside of Iowa State, did any of those four wins leave you feeling great about this team?
I’m happy with this team’s record. Less happy with what it took to get there. Encouraged about where it’s headed. When those freshman are juniors, we’ll be calling for Mack’s head if they’re 4-2 after six games.
Starting Ash last week, for better or worse, I liked — they made a decision. Now I’d like to see them stick with it.
Simplicity is always the secret, to a profound truth, to doing things, to writing, to painting. Life is profound in its simplicity. - Charles Bukowski
by windycityhorn on Oct 24, 2011 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions
it shows what kind of youth we are dealing with
so comparing them to other Big 12 teams is ridiculous. also holding them to the highest standards is also foolish. young players will make mistakes. they are going to mature both mentally and physically. we have 25 freshmen on our two deep. it’s going to take time for this team to get where we want it to be. so just sit back and enjoy the ride.
Who are you?!
I'm Kick Ass!
by TexasGarcia37 on Oct 24, 2011 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Not liking this news
I have my doubts about McCoy’s ability, and was glad to see Ash get the game against OSU. A lot of the weaknesses in his game were youth/experience mistakes that could be worked on with practice reps. A bye week and a warm-up would be solid prep for a tough finale that we’ll need to finish 4-2 to have a successful season. But now we’re hearing that they’ve reverted to the system that we last saw utterly fail in Dallas.
I would have preferred to see one guy (Ash, for my tastes) get all the work over the bye and test it out against KU. Now we’re waiting to see them against KU, an awful defense where neither QB will likely separate, which puts us into another week of this mess. Would hate to have to see this play out against a TT team that we’ll likely need to put up 30-40 on to beat.
Hopefully, Saturday night assuages my concerns.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 24, 2011 4:45 PM CDT via iPhone app reply actions
Fine
But the problem is if both do well and it is a blow out, someone will try to extrapolate that both should start. Most McCoy supporters completely over-look the competition or maybe ASh supporters are hyper-sensitive to it, you decide. It is unfair to give the kid a shot vs one of the most opportunistic defenses in the country and then open it up competition vs the sisters of the poor. at some pt, you have to make a decision and show a little faith in it
If both play against Kansas it will be Apples to Apples
Ok St offense is what keeps them winning. Their defense is plenty suspect. Im sure both Qbs will see time in the Kansas game, so it will be Apples to Apples.
I said opportunistic
I didn’t say great. OSU defense gives up yards but they have a nice habit of producing big plays
The coaches apparently disagree with your contention.
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 24, 2011 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions
If the OU stuff is true
and the coaches basically sat McCoy for a game as punishment, then do you still have a problem with it? At this point we don’t really know that Ash starting was more about his ability/upside/practice than McCoy’s attitude at the OU game. It could have just been a one game pause in the coaches still trying to determine who should actually win the job.
If OU is true
And there is no way to know the truth with certainty. I have a bigger issue with the move. If Case quit in OU game, there is no way he can ever lead the team again. Nobody will follow him and he are back to 2010. This could cause major rifts in the locker room. 1 game suspension can satisfy the coaches, but players wont trust him again for a long time. I hope it isn’t true, because instead of rooting out entitlement we are accepting it
May the best man win
Ash and McCoy are both Longhorns, im behind whoever plays , they both have little experence and the Big 12 is tough this year.
I'm wondering if this is a way to keep Colt in the program.
If the rumors are true about McCoy then Mack has got to be scared shitless about having only one real QB left after starting the season with FOUR. Scares me too. Should scare everyone.
But I think they’ll both look great against Kansas and this story will continue.
I really hope the rumors aren’t true and Case isn’t as big a douche as the rumors suggest. If the rumors are true, the sooner he leaves the better. Can’t have that in the program and expect to succeed.
Look out 2013
Case would have been gone in a heartbeat if it were true.
We have a half dozen former Qb’s playing other positions right now. Insubordination is not something that would be tolerated from a player, especially one that has not lettered . He would be buried on the bench or suspended for unnamed transgressions. Someone else would take his spot. You may think Mack Brown is soft but that aint the case,not in that type of situation. you dont get to, or keep the position he has by being soft. Case has no trump card in the hole.
I totally disagree. No one making half a million dollars a month would be left with one QB, pride be damned.
Case has got Mack by the short ones. Plus he has the Colt cult and family to deal with too.
This isn’t to say I think the rumors are true, but if Case is really being a whiny bitch and a shitty teammate, Mack has no choice but to put up with it for it. For now.
In reality I think Case got too big for his britches once, Mack brought him down a notch by benching him against OSU, and that will pretty much be the end of it until one or the other QBs stands out.
Cleary, this is viewed as an experimental season by the coaching staff and he’s getting all (two) of his QBs experience.
Hell, this whole season is an extended tryout. And personally I like it, and think it’s a painful but necessary part of rebuilding the program.
All I ask win-wise is the that we beat the Aggies. Truly must be the Aggies. Really must kick their ass out the door.
Look out 2013
I am totally with you...I'm kinda enjoying the season as well....but we have to get two wins before the aggroids....
as bad as I want to really punish aTm, I cant stand the thought of having to watch this game without a bowl selection locked up.
We need a bowl game this year worse than, and I hate to say this, a win in college station.
OK, take me out an shoot me, but we REALLY need a bowl game for 2012. Even the Texas Bowl against Syracuse would be great….I cant believe I said that.
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 24, 2011 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Mack discusses selfishness by players and parents in today's presser
“in a time where we have so many selfish players and parents”
Must be true, GG Quit the team so he could play elsewhere.
If he didnt have a bum arm Mack may have had him back in at starter, but he didnt want to compete. Sad to say, thats what its about nowdays.
KU is a big game
KU is a big game because it is the most winnable game left on the schedule. Forget future development, vs KU Mack will play whoever gives him the best chance to win this Saturday. Texas really needs to get to 7 wins to guarantee a bowl game. 6 wins is enough to qualify for a bowl but does not guarantee that you will be selected for a bowl. Playing a bowl game is huge for such a young team because of the extra practice required to prepare for the bowl game.
To win 7 games, the horns definitely need to beat KU. Ash is the future but if Mack thinks Case gives him a better chance vs KU, Case is going to play.
6 Wins will guarantee a bowl....what bowl would not like to have Texas?
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 24, 2011 8:49 PM CDT reply actions
Pretty sure Mack does not want to leave it to chance
Just to answer your question, the vast majority of bowls are not going to want Texas this bowl season. Texas was 5 and 7 last season. If they finish 6 and 6 this season, I don’t think most of our fans are going to be interested in a piece of crap bowl game and that is only possibility for a 6 and 6 team.
Texas in any bowl will ;ight up the TV sets....your not going to watch the Horms in any bowl? I dont think so.
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 24, 2011 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I'll be watching
The nice thing about crappy bowls is that they are usually easy wins for the horns.
A 6-6 Texas team
Would be one of the most coveted bowl teams. It’s about ratings, not game quality. Texas brings that no matter what.
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No
If Texas finishes 6 and 6, they will be in a crappy bowl. They won’t be one of the most coveted bowl teams. 6 and 6 teams don’t play in good bowls.
He means it's about money.
People want to make money, and Texas brings money in regardless of its record.
6 and 6 teams don't go to good bowls
If you have a counter example of a 6 and 6 team going to a good bowl ever, please feel free to cite it.
Ugh
My point is they won’t have trouble getting into a bowl game over any other 6-6 team. Whether they can take the team due to the bowl hierarchy is irrelevant. Higher bowls will always take better teams, but as soon as somebody can legitimately take a 6-6 Texas team, they’re all over it.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
if you are rebuilding and missed a bowl last season...
I feel that any bowl is good enough. Texas fans travel well and they will get viewers regardless of what bowl it is.
by LonghorninRaiderland on Oct 25, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Texas goes to a bowl, tv sets will be on.
They have trouble finding enough 6 win teams as it is with all the bowls.
I think Texas will win 4 of the next 6, they are getting better every week.
I bet Texas does not win 4 of remaining 6
because the QB position is very weak with either Ash or Case.
You may be right but I'll bet we can win at least two. Guaranteed.
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 24, 2011 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
Assuming we beat KU, then it only takes 2 wins in the last 5 games to get to 7 wins, so I’m sticking with 7 wins.
Heck, thats only one short of 8 Kafta. But i would take 7
Im thinking we will be improving every week, if it had not been for turnovers Ok St could have gone down.
This is Mack's fault for not being able to make a decision and stick with it
We all knew GG was DOA before 2010 was even over, and yet Mack kept playing him well into 2011. He was stubborn like a bull, and now he seems unable to make a decision.
He needs to either pick Ash or McCoy based on whatever he’s seeing in practice, whatever Harsin/Major is saying, and let it roll. This two QB system is bullshit. He needs to make the hard choices, that’s what he gets paid the big bucks for.
Choose one QB — let him play until it becomes PAINFULLY OBVIOUS he can’t hack it (the way it was painfully obvious to everyone that GG can’t hack it halfway into the season), then switch to the other guy and see how that works out. If neither one of these guys work out, there is always a new batch of QBs coming up.
Because we're Texas and we're evil. DUH.
Can you imagine where we would be right now if GG had been benched halfway through the season last year, like he should have been ?
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 24, 2011 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions
If Texas just hands the ball to MB, Foz, And DJ and limits the QB (either one) to 15 throws, we can win 3 of our last 6 .
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 24, 2011 9:18 PM CDT reply actions
Against 8 in the box?
Go back to the OU game where linebackers are stunting aggressively and the safeties are cheating up. If we can make Tech, KSU, Baylor and even aTm defenses play us honestly, then I really like our chances of showing and reaping the benefits of a successful running game. But with no downfield threat at all, then it’s simply the flipside of last year’s coin.
I think we can have solid
Success with 8 in the box as long as it’s against Big 12 defenses.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Next Year
I hate to look to next year, but I don’t see Ash or Mccoy taking the job this year. I see the two qb system staying around all year. So what happens when Conner Brewer arrives, do we have to go through 3 qb spring game again? If Brewer for some reason takes the backup role do we lose another qb and end up back at square one? I can’t take more freshman quarterbacking.
by horninraidercountry on Oct 24, 2011 10:13 PM CDT reply actions
To
Be honest with you I think Connor brewer is the best fit for this system… He’s kellen Moore lite… When we get back into contention he will be the qb…. Book it
by drobe86 on Oct 24, 2011 10:18 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
In light of recent highly touted QB recruits flopping, I will reserve all hopes, dreams, and expectations for Brewer untill I see him on the field.
by horninraidercountry on Oct 24, 2011 10:22 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Please, for the love of Bevo ..
Redshirt Brewer next year. Let’s please not go through this pain again of putting a true freshman on the field to face D1 defensive speed and Harsinwhite play-calling witchery.
Another question
Maybe a little off topic, but why can Doege tear up OU, and our highly recruited QB can’t? Why can Tech OL block OU, and our qb can’t get 2 sec to throw the ball?I can’t get why our excellent athletes play aweful in comparison to mediocre athletes.
by horninraidercountry on Oct 24, 2011 10:17 PM CDT reply actions
I kinda have the feeling that OU thought they could just show up and win.
They looked terrible and looked like they kind of half-assed their game plan assuming it was going to be an easy win.
by LonghorninRaiderland on Oct 25, 2011 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
A bit late
But, if you want to see one stark difference between Tech at OU vs RRS, look at what the Tech receivers did in terms of blocking downfield, on running plays, screens and intermediate passing. Then ask yourself when is the last time you’ve seen Texas receivers block downfield like that (setting aside Shipley who is a total stud every time he’s on the field). Then ask yourself what that had to do with Deoge. I like Deoge and his performance against OU was a ton of fun to watch (the tears of sooner fans taste like chocolate cake), but if the Tech game indicated anything, it indicated the team-sportness of football. That entire squad came to play.
OU comes to the RRS with blood in their eyes and intensity at mach lll ....Texas comes to the RRS like just another game
Why that is I’ll never know. OU generally lets down historically after the RRS….they semi struggled against Kansas and were sound asleep during the first half against Tech.
Tech was up bigtime against OU and capitalized on ou’s lack of focus.
Watch the Horns in 2 weeks against Tech….we will shut them down defensively and win the game.
Makes no sense.
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 24, 2011 10:45 PM CDT reply actions
"OU comes to the RRS with blood in their eyes and intensity at mach lll ....Texas comes to the RRS like just another game "
" Because We’re Texas Damn It! " ….lol
by LonghorninRaiderland on Oct 25, 2011 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
It makes some sense
Not that I’m for it, mind you, but Brown has spoken of the post-RRS letdown several times and saw it during his tenure at OU. I think a large part of the reason he preaches ‘just another game’ about RRS is to avoid letdown games, whether before or after.
Again, as a fan, I’d rather get blown out by OSU or even drop a game to Kansas than get beat 55-17 by OU, but we sort of have what we have.
Ash vs McCoy
I find it funny how all the anti-Ash people bring up the turnovers against OSU. I seem to remember McCoy laying the ball on the ground twice against OU and once againt Iowa St. I also remember him getting away w/ one against UCLA and grossly underthrew an open receiver against OU. Not to bag on Case, but other than UCLA, he hasn’t exactly lit up the skies.
Truth be told, they would both benefit from a good TE and a receiver not named Shipley stepping up and making some plays.
by amarillotxhornfan on Oct 24, 2011 11:38 PM CDT reply actions
Davis had 10 catches in the Ok St game
Ash does not know what he is seeing on the field yet, he has got to make quicker decisions. He has had 100 + yards in sacks, you lose games because of that. Mack said as much in the press conference. Right now on some pass plays he freezes, run or throw the ball away dont lose yardage to sacks.
Yeah; OSU was bracketing Shipley all game
But the point otherwise remains. For all the talk of Broyles and/or Blackmon, both OU and OSU have other very legitmate downfield threats that can hurt you as soon as you take your eyes off of them. Shipley’s the real damn deal and Davis is coming along and that’s about it.
The more this season progresses the more I think that the very best coaching change from last season was replacing Coach Kennedy. I believe that Coach Wyatt represents a real upgrade at that spot but has his work cut out for him in the next 2-ish years.
Ash is the guy, but it makes sense...
We need to develop a back-up.
We need Ash and the entire team to feel the nipping at their heels. Competition is a great motivator.
We need to protect Ash until he can bulk up.
We need to show legacies, parents, and coaches that we respect amd try to develop the players they send us.
Ash can study from the sideline when Case is underthrowing receivers or simply fumbling.
Meh
We need to protect Ash until he can bulk up
He’s a good 6’3" 220 lbs as an 18 year old. That’s pretty stout. He added about 15 lbs since his senior year of HS.
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SECede?....Whoop(s)!!
even if those stats from the media guide are magically true for the first time in history...
…Ash looks like he can still fill out his frame.
He looks like he's 6'3" and 220 lbs
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SECede?....Whoop(s)!!
Develop a backup ??
Having a Qb step up and take the job, thats what they are looking for. A backup is being developed at the same time.
I hear your point, but I think it's alreay Ash's job, dude...
He’s getting the reps. He played all of OSU. He didn’t tap out versus OU. He can be taught, but Case can’t grow a better arm.
Texas Football Identity Crisis
Texas football in 2011 is staring a major identity crisis right in its face. Who and what these guys inside Moncrief-Neuhaus are is unknown to everyone. Players, coaches, media and fans, all of us have no clue if the kids playing are winners and can play ball – together, as a team. And we wonder if the coaches who’ve been here awhile still have it and if the new ones are as advertised.
How quickly this disarray hit the Forty Acres is the most flabbergasting aspect of it all. From one play in the National Championship game in January, 2010 that snuffed out a return to 2005-level elation and pride to a disastrous 5-7 non-bowl season in 2010 to a 2011 where we’ve seen two QB’s leave the team and a thorough dismantling by OU reminiscent of the debacles suffered in the early 2000’s – but without the bounceback win to begin the task of salvaging a 10-win season.
It’s baffling to us all. Mack self-admittedly had no clue about the team last year or what to do about it. He came into 2011 with almost an entirely new coaching staff and was feeling “rejuvenated” and the “most excited” he’s been about coaching in years. But unless he’s got a handle on things in a way that we’re oblivious to I suspect he’s still searching for a clue about what’s happening in his locker room.
The Gilbert thing surely threw him off-kilter all the way around last year. He’s an established coach, he had developed a system that worked better than no other program for a decade (in terms of W-L’s, not # of championships), players came and went and they all performed well, plug and play just worked. Gilbert showed promise in emergency duty in the Rose Bowl, why wouldn’t he come around like his predecessors?
But the wheels came off against UCLA, and aside from an improbably win in Lincoln the team tanked, Gilbert blew chunks and he had a QB controversy staring him in the face. When the K State 5-INT game was in progress I’m sure he knew he wasn’t going to be able to avert the gaze of an unsettled fan base, players on the bench eager to play and parents eager to have their kids showcased for prospective NFL employers. Even the area of the team MB thought was going to be its strength under Coach Boom’s tutelage mentally threw in the towel, getting scorched by lesser opponents.
I view last year’s KSU game as the most pivotal game of this season, and possibly the next few. McCoy was on the sidelines, available to play, the outcome of that game was settled, GG was simply lousy, yet MB fearing another Simms-Applewhite controversy stuck with his starter. It’s no secret that following the game Dad McCoy and Coach Brown had heated, sharp words outside the team bus. MB was contrite, Dad was nuclear, assurances were made. But when GG continued to start and the outcome of the “open” training camp in 2011 being named starter the stage was set for another dysfunctional season.
The problem with GG centered on his confidence. Coaches were constantly trying to tell him and us how good he was, despite the evidence to the contrary during games. No doubt he was the best on the practice field. But his internal game clock and decision making under pressure never synched. Yet this was the horse MB hitched his cart to and refused to unhitch it from until two games into a new season that was looking a lot like the old one.
MB’s loyalty to his players and scars from the QB controversy of the early 2000’s has framed this entire stretch following the departure of Colt, his last reliable leader pulling the trigger for the team. His “system” of plug and play has been unplugged every since then. And try as he may to switch outlets, change the fuse, bring in some new fixtures hasn’t worked the way he thought it should. I honestly believe at this point he’s putting on a smoke and mirror show for all of us, but going home and hoping and praying that one of his players is going to stand up and take the job of Texas Longhorn starting QB before we all figure out he’s just winging it.
In the mean time, he’s coaching to the best of his ability, trying to figure out how to keep the rest of his “system” intact while the most important component gets figured out. He sees new blood and new talent in the pipeline. He’s hopeful he can develop what he currently has here, and a coach as proud and successful as MB has been surely has to be most focused on that now. And he honestly cares about each kid as if they were his own, he wants what’s best for them, too.
The drama that was/is/willbe GG/Wood/Case/Ash/Brewer continues to unfold. The bad decision he made in choosing to stay too long with GG last season is one he’s paying for over and over and over again. His mistake is his Achilles heal, falling in love with an arm and physical gifts in the QB position over inspired leadership from a fiery competitor with less athleticism.
MB doesn’t emote fire and passion for his teams, and it shows when he’s missing a field general with those traits. Simply bringing in an assistant (like Boom) with it isn’t the same as a HC or team leader with it. These are 3-4-5 star players, all with HS backgrounds where they were the best guys in their locker rooms. Weak leadership from peers is not respected in that kind of elite circle. The QB who emerges from this year’s game-by-game competition demonstrating the type of fire, passion, and ability to make plays that leave his teammates amazed and impressed is the one who gets my nod, not the one who necessarily has the best arm. And if that QB isn’t on campus now we should all be praying one is coming in next season.
MB’s system is not designed for a player with those traits at another position to impact the team like a Suh did for Nebraska. And that means that MB’s future success depends on his ability to land and put the right QB into the starting slot. Maybe McCoy or Ash will show us which one has it over these next six games and we’re all surprised by some spark that turns on the power in MB’s system that finishes with 8-9 wins, in fact that’s my fondest wish for the program. And unless MB is willing to scrap his entire system of coaching he’s developed over all the decades he’s been in the game for some new approach not reliant upon an emotional QB leader then his days are numbered, and it started ticking against K State last year.
Last Paragraph, Last Sentence Clarification
Should be “But unless MB…then his days are numbered if he doesn’t”
Great Analysis......
It’s just baffling to me that the coaching braintrust continues to gameplan like our QB is going to perform like Colt, when its obvious to everyone that neither is ready to do so. 40 pass plays against OSU was a serious coaching mistake.
Run the ball, Wildcat Foz, run draws, and take the easy passes and take the pressure of f the QBs while they learn and adapt to the speed of the game. We can win a lot of games with this formula and avoid creating another headcase from the pressure cooker of trying to be Colt McCoy.
Mack and HarsinWhite have got to recognize this.
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Oct 25, 2011 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions
The OL Has Been Pretty Decrepit Since...
…the 2009 season. I know we got to the NC game that year, on the strength of will by Colt, Jordan and a defense that rattled cages (at least till the A&M game). But our o-line has sucked as since 2008. It’s inexplicable for those positions to be as consistently bad for that long. We must’ve had just plain terrible recruiting there for several years to let that much dead wood take up space in our locker room.
I remember seeing the play of the OL in Laramie in 2009 wondering how we could have 40+ lbs/player advantage over the Pokes and not be able to dominate them. Altitude my ass, it was attitude that nearly sunk them early on.
I remember an old Dan Marino commercial for gloves at Christmas, “you gotta take care of the hands that take care of you” was the tagline about his linemen. Either that unit was recruited poorly for years, there’s poisonous attitudes inside enough of them to transcend seasons and graduations or none of our QB’s has stepped up and earned their respect since Colt. And a QB HAS to have the support and confidence of his linemen, as Marino’s ad playfully but accurately pointed out.
If it’s recruiting alone that will flush itself out with new talent coming in to start. If it’s poisonous cancer in there the coaches need to scalpel it out or bring in a hacksaw if need be. If it’s a failure of the QB’s to bond, respect and inspire them then they’d better learn quick how critical it is to get them their metaphorical gloves, and start playing well enough to change that dynamic. Nothing happens on offense without the line getting it done and no miracle worker handling the ball to gloss over their inadequacies.
by RMHorn on Oct 25, 2011 1:09 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
OL wasn't good in 2007 either
We just had JC back there doing wizard stuff with the ball.
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My tinfoil hat goes the other way
I think Brown has advocated for McCoy both last year and this year. I think it was Davis who stuck to his guns last year; and I think Harsin and Applewhite both hoped to redshirt Ash this year, both recognized that none of the others was really ready, and both thought that they could get Gilbert’s confidence back to where it needed to be. I think that’s why we saw the caginess from Brown last year where from KSU on, any personnel question to him was answered with ’you’ll have to ask the coordinator.’ and why we’ve seen similar caginess from him on QB’s this year.
I think it also tends to explain whatever attitude drama has existed, since one would reasonably expect a very different result of having the HC in your corner.
I do agree completely with the presence of an identity crisis, especially when it comes to the running game. We seem to have gone from a program that couldn’t run the ball last year to a program this year that can’t do anything but run the ball. OU stacked the box and dared us to beat the over the top; we couldn’t. OSU employed a Diaz-like defense of giving ground between the twenties, then stacking against the run in the redzone, with a similar result.
Off topic
I owe you an apology, I misread your comment yesterday and then seeing the reply right after it took it to mean something completely different. My mistake and thank you for fighting the good fight.
Official Member of the Joe Bergeron Fan Club
mccoy/ash
Just observing from afar(no, I have never seen any communication between the McCoy
father and MB), I do not see McCoy getting the same oportunity to have success that has been give Ash. He needs to have at least a complete game without watching Ash warm up in case he lays the ball on the ground. Just give him a chance, at least.
Mack Brown is demented
Great BurntHorns article that says exactly what I’ve been saying since preseason. Face it – McCoy wouldn’t even get a scholarship at the top Big 12 schools. Remember Mack poached him from Abiline Christian.
Focus on Ash. Get him up to game speed but giving him all the snaps.
Continue with the run game – it’s actually doing fairly well.
Save the gimmick plays for no more than once/game. They’re not very cute and won’t work against any but the weakest opponents.
D is in great shape. Byndom is a beast at Corner.
In the real world
If an employee refuses to work, the employee is dismissed. There is no relationship beyond that.
We’re Texas.
We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
I agree
but this isn’t the real world. Its college football.
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SECede?....Whoop(s)!!

































