Texas vs OU Game Review: Defense
by Peter Bean on Oct 9, 2011 2:39 AM CDT
in Texas Longhorns Football
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PrintAs one-sided as was the game, the performance of the defense wasn't nearly as bad as the 55-17 final score suggested. The Sooners defense scored 21 of those points, while the OU offense picked up another 10 points on short fields following turnovers. Whereas the Oklahoma defense thoroughly dominated the Texas offense, Landry Jones and the OU offense merely got the better of the UT defense over the course of the game.
I haven't reviewed the tape for the defense like I did for the offense, but let's talk a little bit about what Manny Diaz's unit did and didn't do well Saturday afternoon.
Revisiting the keys to the game. Three of the five keys to the game that I laid out related to challenges the UT defense would face in trying to slow down the potent, up-tempo OU offense: (1) Texas' ability to pressure/hit Landry Jones without selling out, (2) Texas' ability to keep Ryan Broyles in check, and (3) OU's ability to rush the ball when it needed to.
On the latter two, although the Texas defense made one costly mistake on each count, it earned solid passing grades for both. The mistake with Broyles came on OU's first play from scrimmage, when Jones found the shifty wideout too-easily open on the right side and a 15-yard gain became 40 yards after Diggs missed the initial tackle, setting up the Sooners initial field goal. The lone mistake in rushing defense, of course, came on Whaley's 64-yard touchdown run mid-way through the 3rd quarter.
Although those two mistakes cost Texas 10 points, the defense held up well otherwise. Broyles caught 8 other passes in the game and drew one pass interference penalty, he netted just 82 yards on those receptions, 36 of which came on one pretty pitch-and-catch down the middle. In other words, outside that first big mistake, Texas didn't let Broyles beat them, forcing OU to win it with their secondary options.
As for shutting down OU's ability to pick up yards on the ground, the Texas defense held OU to 11 rushing on 11 carries in the first half, and outside the big run by Whaley a total of 12 yards on 5 carries in the second half. For the game the Sooners managed just 87 yards rushing on 17 carries, 80% of which came on a single run. Here, too, the Longhorns defense forced OU to beat it elsewhere.
That just leaves Jones and the importance of making his life difficult, and while the Texas defense did not completely fail to put pressure on the Sooner QB, the unfortunate truth of the matter is that Jones handled everything brilliantly from start to finish. When we broke through with pressure that spelled trouble, Jones immediately threw the ball away. When Jones was under pressure but had enough time to get off a pass, he very quickly made the right read and the right throw, usually for a completion. And when he had time, he found the open man and delivered strikes.
If you'd told me before the game we were going to keep Broyles from beating us with big plays and smother OU's rushing game, I would have liked our chances to keep Jones from beating us on his own, even with our youth and inexperience in the secondary. But he did, and it was a big-time performance a step above anything I've seen from Jones on the biggest stages before. Kudos to him on a masterful performance.
The Texas secondary. Facing arguably the best receiving corps in the country, our young corners had a rough day, and though no one was expecting them to shut down Ryan Broyles completely, their inexperience was on full display. Covering those OU receivers one-on-one is a tall order, and the Sooners did a great job of spreading the field to get at least one match up that they liked, and Jones consistently took advantage. Byndom, Diggs, and Phillips each took a turn or three getting beat in isolation, and there's not much to say about young and inexperienced corners losing one-on-one battles with such talented and experienced receivers, except that they'll get better.
As for the safeties, Oklahoma did a good job of taking advantage of Blake Gideon's weaknesses, and with OU's running game as thoroughly in check as it was, we absolutely needed better help defense from him over the top. Kenny Vaccaro had his moments, but his overall performance was uneven, while Christian Scott gave us a good number of positive snaps but didn't offer much in the way of pass defense support.
I'm sure I'd have a bit more to offer upon a close re-watching of the game, but it's hard to get too analytical about what happened today. We had, on the one hand, a very young group of DBs who had to cover some of the best receivers in the country one-on-one, and on the other, a veteran quarterback who flawlessly attacked every advantage that was to be had. Jones was great when he had a play to make, and mistake-free when he didn't.
Looking ahead: Oklahoma State. The challenge for the Texas defense won't be any easier next Saturday, as Oklahoma State comes to Austin with every bit as dynamic a passing game as OU, and a better running game. It's hard not to prescribe a similar game plan -- get pressure on Weeden without selling out, don't let Blackmon kill you all by himself, and control OSU's ability to be balanced -- but it's easy to see the Cowboys lighting up the scoreboard if Weeden similarly avoids mistakes/negative plays when there's pressure, because there's no question he and his receiving corps -- which is as good as Oklahoma's -- can make things happen when there's time.
Based on today and what I saw during OSU's game at A&M, I'd say it's more important to get pressure on Weeden, even if that means selling out a bit, and though Blackmon is as dangerous to score on any given play as they come, the rest of the Cowboys receivers are good, but not big-time touchdown threats. It's another pick-your-poison match up for the Texas defense, and if OSU executes as well as they're capable of, it won't be enough to try to control them -- we'll have to make plays and/or hope that our offense is up for winning a shootout.
Final thoughts... Losing to OU sucks, and getting routed by OU really, really sucks, but it really is a good idea right now to go back and remember how we were thinking about this season in August. After today's loss, it's not only a good idea for your sanity, but as a reminder of what it is, exactly, that it's important we see this team -- and this staff -- do well and get right. Heading into the season almost all of us thought that Texas was likely to lose to both Oklahoma and Oklahoma State, but that the season could and would be successful if we saw the right kind of progress on a number of crucial process-oriented objectives.
Well, here we are, we've lost to Oklahoma, we might well lose to Oklahoma State, and whether this season is ultimately successful still depends on those same things. We knew that there would be difficulties, but what we care about is how the team grows and develops. Whether your pride likes it or not, that's the standard this year, and that -- not whether we win any particular game -- is the thing that matters most to our ability to compete for, and win, titles, year in and year out.
On an otherwise gloomy and discouraging day, that's worth hanging your hat on.
Hook 'em
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Ugly Loss
The 2011 OU game could go down as bad as the UCLA loss in 1997 or the Iowa State loss in 2010.
I want Texas to win every game and simply do not understand why it cannot happen. That said, I am not optimistic about the OSU game. However, we knew in August that OU and OSU were the cream of the Big 12-2-1. So far, nothing suggests that our assessment was incorrect or needs an adjustment.
The remaining schedule appears winnable (10-2) and lose-able (5-7). How this team responds in the next two games will tell us more about the state of the program than a lone observation.
I notice you didn't include OU 2003
That’s more reflective of where we are than any of those losses
Karate? The Dane Cook of martial arts?
by Rocket94 on Oct 9, 2011 8:41 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm assuming you say that as a good thing, right?
Considering what followed the next two seasons…
by Hopkins Horn on Oct 9, 2011 9:55 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yep I’m saying stay positive. This is not the end or the 90s
Karate? The Dane Cook of martial arts?
by Rocket94 on Oct 9, 2011 10:10 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Good overview of the D PB.
I don’t have a problem with the Defense as it’s where I thought they would be. I’m focusing all my anguish on the offensive Offense. They need to bring out the fumigators to clean the Cotton Bowl after Saturday.
Hook Em Horns!
Team Peter Bean
Good posts the last two days TPB…it’s nice to have well thought out and rational reflection to read after such a disaster. I dont feel great about our chances of winning next week but I am looking forward to seeing if we adapt, come out aggressive and not down, and if the crowd is supportive. All things we failed at last year.
by BeeCaveHornFan on Oct 9, 2011 7:01 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
5 star talent, great assistant coaches
might want to get rid of mack, but stay the course and the young guys will grow into the system day by day, month to month, year to year 55-17
"Stoops, Brown polar opposites : One demands accountability; other pats backs" -Kirk Bohls
No doubt about it...
Sooner: Talk all the smack you want…you’re not that good. LSU or Bama will dominate you. Hell Ag nation might beat you.
Now to Texas. Who recruited ASH and McFumble? They should be fired! I’ve been saying this this last two games. Luck has been our best offensive weapon. Neither QB had the experience or knowledge to check out of anything yesterday? WTF? What are they learning in practice? Gilbert was laughing last night, but he’s a wussy and that’s another story.
O-Line. Did not show up. Every single one of them should be benched. Fozzy. That guy has heart. He’s the only player on the entire team that seemed to put 100% of his talent in trying to win.
????
“Gilbert was laughing last night, but he’s a wussy”
Seriously, dude, we don’t need that here.
by Hopkins Horn on Oct 9, 2011 9:57 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
That’s an awfully emotional response. But, we did fire the coach that recruited Ash (even though we should thank him for this parting gift) and Case.
I really don’t get the panic over this game. We knew what to expect. We need the OL was the weakness of this team. We knew Ash was young and needed to learn. We knew Case has physical limits to what he can do. Temper the expectations for this year. Like PB has said all along, it’s about the process.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 9, 2011 12:04 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Process is good for those who have patience
such as those who defend Rick Barnes. I am not one of those fans.
Here’s hoping that Mack’s last hurrah over the next few years is successful and he leaves on his own accord and not because he’s forced out by unsatisfied boosters. I could see either scenario playing out at this point.
Disagree in part and agree in part
First, I really believe OU is “that good,” and saying that LSU, Bama, and even A&M could beat them only makes us loook worse for getting our asses kicked by them. I do agree with you about there being too many recent misses on QB recruits lately: Gilbert, Woods, McCoy Jr, Sharrod Harris, and Chiles, among others. It is way too soon to judge Ash. And yes, I know Gilbert was one of the leading QB prospects in the nation, but the coaches need to look beyond the stats at things like confidence and leadership ability, which Gilbert apparently lacked. I certainly don’t think he was “wussy” or that he took any pleasure in yesterday’s outcome. However, he, as well as Grag Davis and last year’s O-Line coach (McWhorter) may have taken some satisfaction in the evidence that this team’s problems are deeper than any or all of those three guys, who took much of the blame.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
Talent missed and Talent wasted
too many recent misses on QB recruits lately: Gilbert, Woods, McCoy Jr, Sharrod Harris, and Chiles, among others
not to mention misses in other positions, as well. Top o-line recruits didn’t really want to come here because of murmurings that McWhorter “wasn’t the best” (according to at least one former player).
We should have the pick of the litter in Texas, but OU under Stoops is almost as competitive here. Even with lower ranked players, they know how to DEVELOP them into 1st round NFL stock. That was pretty crazy in 2008, when 3 of the top 4 draft picks were from OU (Sam Bradford and Trent Williams were both 3-star recruits out of high school).
Actually there's only like, what, one 5 Star OL?
But that’s not the point. Everybody knows football is cyclical. OU was down for a while, a&m was down for a while, now it’s our turn. We have a long way to go before can be elite again and it’s obviously not going to happen this year or probably next. I do think Mack’s a little soft but so was Tom Landry as well as Bobby Bowden and JoePa in a way. Did you see Tom Landry screaming up and down the sidelines back in the day? It’s just a coaching style. Anyway, I would like to see the Sooners play LSU in the NC. I think it would be epic and I would root for the Big12 even though I don’t like the Sooners. I know you guys would root for the SEC before you would root for Texas but I’m loyal to my brethren in the conference.
Hook Em Horns!
Accepting the supposedly cyclical nature of college football
is part of what got Mack into this predicament. It’s a defeatist theory and one I won’t accept. I will accept that men become complacent when they reach the pinnacle of success. I will accept that men can be too loyal to their friends. I will not accept that a team’s winning percentage must ebb and flow is some mythical cycle..just because
by feltgod on Oct 9, 2011 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly
If you are an elite athlete (or head coach with top notch facilities and all the money you want to hire any assistants you want) you may have a down year where your stats drop 10-20%, but barring injuries, you should not have a string of several years of mediocre performances and blame it on “cycles” that “everyone goes through.” This is not the economy.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
by OBdoc on Oct 9, 2011 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have to agree to this
There is cycle in the 3-4 year experiences of college players but a good coach mixes recruits and playing time in order to hedge against this. Instead of saying football is cyclical, which really doesnt apply when you have a team such as our with 9 10 win seasons (where’s the cycle in that?), I prefer to say that it is more of a roller coaster. You go up and down, the degree of those ups and downs are subject to much influence, but as long as you are going forward it is all good, now if that coaster jumps the tracks you are screwed!
Because being a Texas fan means never having to say you're sorry.
Conference loyalty
I know you guys would root for the SEC before you would root for Texas
Actually, I think a small majority of OU fans pulled for UT for the ’05 MNC. Speaking for myself, I pulled for UT, threw up a little in my mouth in doing so, had to shower afterwards, but did it. Pretty much what I expect many of you would (will?) do for OU.
Good luck the rest of the season.
by TwoPalePonies on Oct 10, 2011 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Just remember
The last time the Sooners routed the Horns they lost in a bowl and Texas won BCS bowls the next 2 years. Plus as I left Dallas, I said to myself “at least I don’t have to drive back to Oklahoma”
LB Grade?
Peter, can you give a sense of where our LB’s were this game? Is it only my perception that they were not a factor?
We suck again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tired of hearing everyone is young. OU and LSU seem to reload with no major hiccups, at least not as bad as we are going through. Looks like a major talent/recruiting drop off to me.
by vincemccoywilliams on Oct 9, 2011 8:32 AM CDT reply actions
You're not one to let facts stand in the way
2 years ago OU lost 5 games and quit at Texas Tech in their last game.
Their bowl futility was spared when in the Sun Bowl they were fortunate to win in that one Andrew Luck did not play.
In 2005 they lost 4 games, in reality forfeiting all due to paying players at Big Red Motors for not working.
LSU? Wanted Les’s head on a poll since their 2 loss NC season.
Remember the LSU game a couple of years back...
…when they had to rally from about 28 back to beat TROY in front of about 50,000 empty seats because the season was already a wash by that point?
by Hopkins Horn on Oct 9, 2011 9:59 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The defense
held OU offense to 34 pts. Im fine with that. I would’ve liked to see more/better blitzing, but oh well. Texas barely touched Jones. Their defense was 3x more aggresive than ours and just wanted it more. From what I remember (i was a little drunk) OU didnt do anything special on defense, they just blitzed and didnt even hide it pre-snap. Ou is blitzing while Texas was trying to run plays that took a couple of seconds to develop. And what is up with the run plays that start with Brown 10 yards behind the line? Those took too long as well.
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Oct 9, 2011 8:37 AM CDT reply actions
We didn't blitz because our LB's and DB's could not cover man to man.
Jones would have just checked and thrown ever quicker to his WR’s. Note to Casey McDummy and Ash. Check the corners. When the other teams’ DBs are holding up a sign that says “I’m going to tatoo you in the chest RIGHT NOW”…touch your helmet and throw it to the wide open receiver…or just take the hit and hold on to the ball. It’s not that hard. Bring back Gilbert!
Casey McDummy
You need to check yourself and calm down. These are kids. We’re better as fans than that sort of shit.
Whoever said laughter is the best medicine had clearly never tasted Scotch.
How is it a joke?
Unless your posts in this thread are particularly subtle satire, everything else you’ve posted in this thread about the QBs seems to fit right in with that. Is it a joke at Case McCoy’s expense? That’s not better.
Whoever said laughter is the best medicine had clearly never tasted Scotch.
Good one.
Whoever said laughter is the best medicine had clearly never tasted Scotch.
by LonghornEm on Oct 9, 2011 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You win. Moving on...
What kind of #’s did Hicks have yesterday? Did Steve E. get much playing time?
Being wrong is a joke now?
That was funny. /joke
Greg Davis haikus; a lot like his offenses; always go sideways.
by pleaseplaykindle on Oct 9, 2011 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions
LonghornEm - could not agree more..
We’re Texas.
We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
by Snide Aside on Oct 11, 2011 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
But OU showed us that
you dont have to cover very long if you blitz properly. Jones had all day to do what he wanted. Texas didnt disrupt his timing at all. Jones doesnt even need to wash his jersey because he didnt sweat and he didnt get dirty.
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Oct 9, 2011 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions
OLine
We have the talent in the skill positions, and we have outstanding coaches. We do not have an o line though. It does not matter who is behind center or carrying the ball if your offensive line barely touches players as they fly by on their way to destroy your quaterback or running back. The offensive line will be the core of this offense and we will live or die by their play. I think it will take time to get the right Oline in place, but once it happens you better watch out. I just hope they get the guys in before Brown graduates, he will be special with a little blocking. Ash is a good QB, but he needs more than a half second to diagnose the defense, he is a freshman and he will turn the ball over, that is what you get with freshman. I dont think he is an aweful player that some are irrationally spewing. This offensive meltdown can rest on the shoulders of the oline.
These corners are beasts for being young. They were in highschool last year for crying out loud. The expectation for them to shut down very good and experienced receivers all game is foolish. Would you expect a freshman corner to shut down Jordan all game when he was playing? No. Not gonna happen. These corners are growing up fast and will be a nasty unit. Our team is rebuilding, and turning into a very good team but it will take time, and it will be painful. Keep in perspective what we expected at the start of this year. We will return to the elite status, all we need is time. Hook em.
by horninraidercountry on Oct 9, 2011 8:50 AM CDT reply actions
Great.
As one-sided as was the game, the performance of the defense wasn’t nearly as bad as the 55-17 final score suggested. The Sooners defense scored 21 of those points, while the OU offense picked up another 10 points on short fields following turnovers.
Because if we’ve learned one thing from playing with aggies for all these years it’s how to claim a moral victory.
To err is human...but humans have such low standards.
It's not about moral victory
Its about figuring out where things really went wrong. Nobody’s claiming any sort of victory from that debacle. But if we’re going to be upset about something, let’s at least be upset about the right things.
I thought we were just properly distributing blame
"Native, I think. And one of the most loyal and knowledgable Cowboys fans on the planet. We also suspect he is a cyborg with a supercomputer brain, and treat him with great respect since we anticipate he will become our supreme overlord someday. Other than that, he’s a really nice guy."
The name has been left off to protect the innocent. Unfortunately the search function still exists.
Two years ago...
A Texas team with a damn fine defense beat the Sooners 16-13 en route to the MNC. OU had 5 turnovers that day but Texas failed to capitalize on them. Also, that OU squad was not as young as this Texas counterpart. Look out in two years. This team could be playing for it all.
I am quite thankful that at DKR, I do not have to listen to chants of "Big 12" echoing throughout.
Thanks for the quick, cathartic OU post mortem posts, PB.
Reasoned, informed analysis is what make this site and BC/Recruitocosm so worth reading. I agree completely with your clear attempt to keep this in perspective. What part of “rebuilding” don’t some of our fanbase understand? We knew coming in that our options at QB, OL and DB were limited. Games like this give you a good look at where you are, specifically who can compete at that level and who can’t.
Okay, then.
The defense held our biggest rival to only 34 points. Yay! That means if our offense hadn’t sucked so much we’d have lost by only three scores instead of five.
The offense got outplayed and outcoached. Somehow when I read that Harsin had been saving stuff for OU and had new wrinkles that they hadn’t seen yet, the slow-ass-developing “QB take the snap, turn, extend the ball, and run straight back to a flat-footed running back seven yards behind the line of scrimmage and hand off” play was not what I envisioned. But at least we redeemed ourselves by running some snazzy double-reverse pitchback wide receiver hook and ladder statue of liberty fakes out of the wishbone, which gashed the OU defense for, what, three yards? Total?
The defense – the front seven, anyway – got outcoached and outplayed. By the end of the game, I’d had a few beers so my memory might be clouded, but I don’t recall putting Jones on the turf at all. He never seemed rushed. Never got hit.
Now, I understand that their guys are just better than our guys this year. I’m not calling for anyone to get fired or lose their starting positions. What I’m saying is, the mere phrase “It wasn’t that bad” should be stricken from the record. It was that bad. We got beat. Outplayed. Outcoached. Embarrassed. There was nothing about it that wasn’t bad. That’s okay. There are always better teams out there, and occasionally you’re going to run into them. Man up, say you got beat, and move on.
To err is human...but humans have such low standards.
Whoops...that was supposed to be a reply to dumeril7 above. nt
To err is human...but humans have such low standards.
Bob Stoops is the better coach
and that really bums me out.
by Matagordahorn on Oct 9, 2011 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Just a thought
Coming into the season we all knew that Texas would have issues at o-line and CB. If you are going to draw-up a team that OU would beat isn’t that the ideal combination? They are a team built to take advantage of our weaknesses. Those are 2 areas you really can’t scheme away vs OU. At CB we tried to limit big plays. That is all you can do. Outside the opening “oh shit, I am in the RRS” moment Diggs had, we actually did a decent job there (and the third and 25, where Diggs allowed an inside release). Sometimes, where you have deficiencies are just as important as overall talent
Not sure why you're replying to me
I never said, “It wasn’t that bad”. In fact, the word I used was “debacle”. But I do advocate keeping things in perspective. We’re in a rebuilding year and its really your problem if expected otherwise since there were no signs to the contrary other than “We’re Texas” and a lot of wishful thinking. We played arguably the best team in the nation and got our @sses kicked. I wasn’t surprised by it and I’m certainly not going to wring my hands over it. We are developing about the pace I thought we would.
An honest assessment is the first step to recovery =)
What I’m saying is, the mere phrase "It wasn’t that bad" should be stricken from the record. It was that bad. We got beat. Outplayed. Outcoached. Embarrassed. There was nothing about it that wasn’t bad.
It's almost all on the OFFENSIVE LINE!!!
A reasonable level of effort and execution by the O-line in pass protection would have at the very least halved the margin of victory. Why don’t we go after a Juco stud who can step in and help next year??
I only see one more win on the schedule.
Kansas. I’m fairly ok with that. I just don’t see how we beat Missouri, Baylor, KState, OKie lite or the Agros. I hope I’m wrong.
I agree with the offensive line assessment.
If we do go 1-5 down the stretch, what changes can/will be made?
None. We changed everything last year.
Now we just have to deal with the growing pains. I think everyone has a free ride this year and next year also since we are so young. Once these young players become juniors and seniors and we somehow still aren’t winning, then some major changes will have to be made again. I believe those major changes would start with a change in the head coach. Hopefully it won’t come to that though.
I'm sure this comment is accurate - that is what frosts me
I think everyone has a free ride this year and next year also since we are so young. Once these young players become juniors and seniors and we somehow still aren’t winning,
What the hell happened to all of the “super” recruiting classes previous to all of these freshmen? Where the hell are they (Fozzy excluded)? did they all transfer?
We’re Texas.
We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
by Snide Aside on Oct 11, 2011 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
This may be me
But I dont think Mizzou and Tech are as good as everyone seems. They dont have the defense that OU has so that helps also. and theres always a chance that the aggies have the same cockyness that Nebraska had last year and think they already won the game. The loss wouldnt bother me if they didnt get blown out.
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Oct 9, 2011 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions
This Just In....
Mario Edwards decommits from FSU… He is going to the Land Thieves. I told you games like this can make or break a recruiting class. Its safe to say that he’s not coming to UT after the beatdown he saw take place yesterday… I wouldn’t be surprised if we started to lose out on some of our recruits…
Yeah, the whole "you will be the foundation of Texas returning to glory" doesn't sit well with a 17 year old who is only thinking: "Who is going to set me up to go first round in the NFL draft?"
I am forced to conclude that God made Texas on his day off, for pure
entertainment, just to prove that all that diversity could be crammed into one
section of earth by a really top hand
And
You think OU isn’t telling him he’s going to be the next Frank Alexander? Add that to the fact that they can guarantee him Conference Championships and National Titles every year he’s there? Listen man I love UT as much as the next but we have to start being realistic as a fanbase
by David Roberson on Oct 9, 2011 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
What's being realistic? Naysaying?
I was realistic coming into this year. I didn’t think we’d be 4-0 going into the RRS, I thought we’d probably lose to either UCLA or BYU. But we didn’t. Did we lose badly to Oklahoma? Uh, yeah. Does that mean we’re gonna be mediocre forever, ZOMG, all of our recruits are gonna decommit? I really doubt that.
On the point about recruits. You want to recruit players who buy into the Texas system. That means the type of offense/defense they run, the type of culture that exists at Texas, and where the team is right now. Just because Edwards is thinking about immediacy doesn’t mean every (good) player currently committed to Texas is going to suddenly decommit. A lot of them want to bring Texas back to glory.
"Native, I think. And one of the most loyal and knowledgable Cowboys fans on the planet. We also suspect he is a cyborg with a supercomputer brain, and treat him with great respect since we anticipate he will become our supreme overlord someday. Other than that, he’s a really nice guy."
The name has been left off to protect the innocent. Unfortunately the search function still exists.
From a Football Standpoint
give me reasons why if you’re Mario Edwards you would pick UT over OU in 2011 or 2012?
by David Roberson on Oct 9, 2011 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Your question implies you didn't read my post
But let’s see here: The culture of Texas, The history of Football excellence. The great young talent that went 4-0 and at the same time will give him early playing time and the ability to showcase his talent early. The fact that Texas is on an upswing, pulling in top level recruiting classes every year….
But we’re not talking about Mario Edwards, I don’t begrudge him his choice if he wants immediacy. I’m just giving a list of possible reasons why Texas commits will stay Texas commits despite a bad 2010
"Native, I think. And one of the most loyal and knowledgable Cowboys fans on the planet. We also suspect he is a cyborg with a supercomputer brain, and treat him with great respect since we anticipate he will become our supreme overlord someday. Other than that, he’s a really nice guy."
The name has been left off to protect the innocent. Unfortunately the search function still exists.
What about yesterday's game
tells you we are on the upswing? You mentioned us pulling in top level recruiting classes every year. On paper I agree with you whole heartedly, but on the field those players aren’t anything close to what we thought they were….And yesterdays game validated that to me…
by David Roberson on Oct 9, 2011 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
You know what, I can't argue with you
You see what you want to see. You don’t see that we were destroyed by UCLA, and beaten by Iowa State last year and that we destroyed UCLA and beat Iowa State this year. So go ahead and be pessimistic, or realistic, or whatever you want to call it. I could care less.
"Native, I think. And one of the most loyal and knowledgable Cowboys fans on the planet. We also suspect he is a cyborg with a supercomputer brain, and treat him with great respect since we anticipate he will become our supreme overlord someday. Other than that, he’s a really nice guy."
The name has been left off to protect the innocent. Unfortunately the search function still exists.
i'm not trying to
Argue with you bro… I just want our fans to stop wearing orange colored glasses. I’m tired of hearing our fans say… We lost by 50 but its ok we’re young…. And people say meh I’m not worried about it we will get better… Thats crap.. You think LSU or Bama fanbases would be ok losing by 5 touchdowns to their archrival? They wanted Les Miles head even when he won a championship….
by David Roberson on Oct 9, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
We lost by 38.
In 2008 Florida beat LSU be 30. I guess LSU was on a downturn and Florida would stay up forever. Yesterday LSU beat Florida by 30. So now LSU is eternally dominant and Florida will never compete for titles again. This stuff happens. Yesterday had more to do with the last 2 years than the last 2 weeks. The problems from the last 2 years have been fixed.
This team will be competing for a National Championship over the next 3-4 years.
Catharsis is good, but isn’t always based in reality.
by bevosbackside on Oct 9, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Good Objective Post
and I hope that it plays out that way for our guys. It’s just that right now that’s really hard to see. And like I said in previous post we’re gonna miss out on some guys we really had an opportunity to get. You can all but forget about landing Mario Edwards and DGB. Great players making the jump from Highschool to college look for 3 things.
1. Where can I get to the NFL
2. Where can I play early
3. Where can I win championships
Sure kids can get to the NFL and play early from here. but you can do that at OU, LSU, Bama, and other top powerhouses. So if the deciding factor is where can I go to win championhips theres no way in hell we would win out. Those other schools are top 3 teams in the nation. We are coming off a 5-7 season and a beatdown to an archrival that Edwards’ is considering…
by David Roberson on Oct 9, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Fair
But have you seen OU’s success in bowl games? I believe Texas has more players in the NFL than any team currently. Texas also is rebuilding, so it can offer early playing time that the others can not. So based on your post, Texas is ahead in 2 of the 3 categories. Championships are short-sided. Plus most recruits believe they are saviors and can do it on their own. I believe Apete listened to your reasoning, Vince Young did not.
People are overreacting
This summer, everyone and their mother expected us to be 2-2 at best and get blasted 63-0 by OU. The fact that we were 4-0 and never gave up yesterday is a miracle in itself. We are already better than last year and getting better. This loss was created 4 years ago. It wasn’t going to change overnight.
Last player who swayed his commitment because he saw OU beat UT and figured OU would win national championships was Adrian Peterson. Look where that got him.
"history of football excellence"
OU can claim the exact same things, and even trump all of them. “Culture of OU/Tx”: a wash. “history of football excellence”: advantage OU. Proof: check MNC’s and conference titles. “great young talent”: OU routinely takes the 3star-4 star talent that Texas passes on and then beats the 5-stars Texas did take. And last year started 6 “true” freshman to beat Texas. Granted, a true freshman was NOT under center for OU. “Texas is on an upswing”: a little premature, but most likely accurate. “Pulling in top level recruiting talent every year”: so does OU. And as stated above, takes “lesser” talent that Texas passes on and coaches ’em up, brings them to the Cotton Bowl….. and you know the rest. Than, for good measure, puts them on the fast track to the NFL. All points taken in the aggregate: advantage OU! None of your stated reasons are strong arguments for Mario Edwards to end up on the 40 acres.
pretty sure that .....
….. The last couple of years there are more Longhorns in the NFL than ANY other school. Tell him that.
by sahyouni on Oct 9, 2011 10:41 AM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Sorry, that's in the past.
The real question is how many current and future Longhorns are in the NFL? The answer is 0! The sky is falling, trust me.
by bevosbackside on Oct 9, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I think the truth is
Mack Brown, good recruiter that he is, is not an elite level coach. Elite CEO, yes. So that’s why we will be a roller coaster of great years (due to transcendent players anyone could win with) to sub 500 seasons.
Other programs have down years with 4-5 losses. We have years where we have 4-5 wins.
None the less, given time and coordianator stability, we will bounce back. Meanwhile, get ready for some really ugly scores.
Really?
We’ve had a winning season every year since 1998 and had 9 consecutive 10 win seasons before 2010.
"Native, I think. And one of the most loyal and knowledgable Cowboys fans on the planet. We also suspect he is a cyborg with a supercomputer brain, and treat him with great respect since we anticipate he will become our supreme overlord someday. Other than that, he’s a really nice guy."
The name has been left off to protect the innocent. Unfortunately the search function still exists.
Small error
We had a winning season every year since 1998 before 2010
"Native, I think. And one of the most loyal and knowledgable Cowboys fans on the planet. We also suspect he is a cyborg with a supercomputer brain, and treat him with great respect since we anticipate he will become our supreme overlord someday. Other than that, he’s a really nice guy."
The name has been left off to protect the innocent. Unfortunately the search function still exists.
Do you Really
think Recruits in 2011 care about our 10 win seasons in consecutive seasons before 2010? Those kids were school age kids at that time. People have to understand that history only takes you far. Notre Dame, and Navy have all the history in the world. They’re not playing for a national title anytime soon.
by David Roberson on Oct 9, 2011 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
I do
Do you honestly believe Stoops would rebuilt An Oklahoma school that fast if he went to OSU? Why can ND and Michigan still bring in top 10 classes? USC is still doing it. Texas brought in a top 5 class coming off a 5-7 season and firing their staff. Complete over-reaction to think the name on the helmet doesn’t effect recruiting. If that was the case how have the Aggies consistently out recruited TCU?
The Aggies
have outrecruited TCU because they’ve been in like 6 conferences since 1995. They had no stability, no resources, and were a small private school and etc. Even over the last decade you can attribute TCU recruiting to the fact that they were playing in the Mountain West Conference. You think now that they are in the Big 12 theyre recruiting won’t see a spike? The Aggies won’t be able to recruit TCU going forward if TCU continues the same success and the Aggies continue to be middle of the road. I believe TCU could become a threat to us in recruiting if we don’t get our shit together.
by David Roberson on Oct 9, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
??
I’m not sure I understand your point.
by David Roberson on Oct 9, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Pt
My pt is Michigan, USC, Georgia, Tenn, and ND can all still recruit, despite terrible recent results. To think the last 2 yrs is all a recruit looks at is to deny the facts. Many players grow up fans and it has been decided long before they realize they will become a 5 star recruit.
We played in a National Championship 2 years ago.
Before last season we were 90s FSU light. Texas has one awful season and now they’re forever lost. These things never happen at Bama or Florida or LSU except when they do (and they do). Mack corrected the problems from the past few years and until yesterday everyone seemed optimistic.
Yesterday happened because of poor recruiting and player development over the past 2-3 years. These problems aren’t caused by the current coaching staff. Yes, Mack and a few others are still there, but he has completely transformed this program (for a second time).
by bevosbackside on Oct 9, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Tell me
what you saw differently from 2010 Horns to yesterday?
by David Roberson on Oct 9, 2011 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
They didn't give up
They tried on every single play, just executed awfully. Last year’s team gave up all the time. Saint Muschamp even gave up.
+1
This was definitely encouraging. Hope they bring that and little more anger to the Cotton Bowl next October.
Hook ’em,
BO&B
by BurntOrange&Blue on Oct 9, 2011 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
And Saint Muscamp was looking around by the Iowa State game, the papers just weren’t signed.
I’m for anyone looking at better opportunities once the season has ended, but stick and succeed with the job you are currently at instead of mentally checking out at the door each game.
SEC- Southern Evangelical Cheaters. Since Jesus didn't specifically mention cheating in football in the New Testament, they are good to go.
Agreed
Securing your next job all while bailing out on us midseason is the SEC thing to do.
Because being a Texas fan means never having to say you're sorry.
DE
Im really concerned about our defensive ends. We generated virtually zero pressure from that position. Okafor and Jeffcoat are just not getting it done on the edge. All of OU’s pressure didnt come for blitzes. Their DL was just whipping our OL one on one at times. Thats a must for any defensive system to work. You have to win one on one matchups up front at least a handful of times per game. We rae young we will get better but I was troubled by the DE’s.
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad" - Unknown
I'd like to talk more about this too.
I expected a much better performance out of our whole D-Line against OU’s line which was missing its starting center.
I thought we would be more pressure on Jones than they would get on Ash/McCoy, and boy was I wrong.
agree that the only win left is Kansas
Top 5 recruiting classes shouldn’t have to overhaul rebuild is my problem. You have to get the OL to be good and at CB we just have to get the players to beat the conf. How they get pushed around and blown out in a RRR I dont know, soul-less comes to mind and they still throw too much and are wimpy. Used to be OU might win 10-6 but they probably wouldnt win next week cause they were sore as hell.
I think
we get Kansas, Tech, and Mizzou…. And we have the potential to beat Aggie… 8-4 is the ceiling. 7-6 and 6-6 is more likely…And we’re Texas that’s crap
by David Roberson on Oct 9, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Jeezus the sky is not falling
Way too much pessimism after one admittedly nasty loss. Look, Oklahoma played one of its best games of the season, Texas easily played at its worst. Result: 55-17. But for two missed red zone opportunities and two ridiculous TOs into TDs, the score would have been better, but probably still a loss.
Kansas, Tech and KSU at home are all winnable. Missouri on the road is comparable to ISU on the road, and we handled that well.
OSU and A&M, I grant you — I doubt we can pull that off. But we have good reason to anticipate an 8-4, even 9-3 season, and that ain’t bad. Yeah, we’re Texas and all that, but this year we are decidedly not all that.
Next year, maybe.
Patience.
What is this B.S. "we only want players who buy into the system"
As someone mentioned above about the role history and tradition being important for recruits. Wake up brotha, the times have changed, all the athletes we are competing to get out of highschool have initial plans to play in the NFL. The UT. OU. LSU, ALabamas, etc… that compete for the top recruits are seeking the best players that have one goal in mind (generally speaking), and they want a program thats kicking ass now and gives them the most exposure and competition to reach that next level. So for people to come on here and say they believe these beatdowns dont matter and that we want kids who buy into the system and tradition, I say you get what you want. Yesterday, that team from OU looked mean and hungry and made our boys look like well……boys. We will lose recruits and continue to lose recruits if we blind ourselves as to how the game has changed and the motive of today’s players. There is a reason The SEC is strong continually, they make no jokes about what they set out to do and who they seek to do it. The old time is gone and the NFL has helped to change that, instant gratifation is the winner of the day and instant beatdowns go along way to change a kids mind
Thank You
Finally a person that isn’t wearing burnt orange colored glasses. If you’re a 5 star recruit and you watched Texas get their ass kicked, and you’re considering the team on the other side as a top 3 anyway, youre going to OU and not UT. We can say “mobileohoma” and call them land thieves or whatever we want, that doesn’t change the fact that they are a Football Powerhouse EVERY year, and we’re a middling 7-5 football right now. And the fact that people attribute us getting blown out to just “we’re Young” is the biggest crock of shit I’ve ever heard. You don’t have to be an upper classmen to play with heart. You don’t have to be an upperclassmen to not play 8-12 yards off the ball if you are a corner. You don’t have to be an upperclassmen to get open and make plays. There are young players all over the country that are getting after it and dominating the competition. Anybody ever seen Jadaveion clowney outta South Carolina? Or what about sammy Watkins from Clemson? Isiah Crowell? Aren’t those guys freshman?
by David Roberson on Oct 9, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
OU lost 5 games 3 years ago
Also, there’s a big difference between one freshman playing great on a team full of seniors than an entire team of freshmen playing great.
Its funny you mention playing 8-12 yards off the corner
i was yelling to my dad all game, why the hell do they do that, make them fight for that shit. Jones was getting a boner every time he stepped under center to see that. I understand schemes but for fucks sake make them earn it.
Im afraid there are many BON’ers who buy into THE system, and for all i love of MACK, you can just see the hate in Stoop’s eyes and how seems like a mean SOB. Not that I want him, but I miss that little bit from Muschamp. Football is an intensity game and you need intense coaches, hopefully we have those and they just need to put in the plan….. we shall see
Then go find another team to follow hoss.
I can’t imagine how negative your mindset must be every day when you wake up.
by BeeCaveHornFan on Oct 9, 2011 3:57 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
2011 Recruiting
1.Bama
2. FSU
3. Texas
4. USC
5. Georgia
6. LSU
7. Auburn
8. Clemson
9. Oregon
10. Notre Dame
Outside of Oregon that list might as well be from 1993
Who is missing from that top 10 recruiting list
There is a glaring omission from the recruiting list, OU. But somehow they are currently ranked #1/3 and just administered another RRR beat down. Wonder why that is?
Is this opinion based only on ...
… conjecture, or do you have some evidence to support it? Not trying to be argumentative, just wondering what evidence there is for a recruiting recession.
by BurntOrange&Blue on Oct 9, 2011 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Neither McCoy nor Ash is cutting it.
Brewer hasn’t done anything for us either. Swoopes should start. If he hasn’t done anything by next week, we should move on to a lovechild of VY and Sister Shipley (this needs to happen; the 2033 MNC depends on it).
Also, we should fire the entire staff, hire zombie Vince Lombardi as head coach, Dick Lebeau as DC, and zombie Bill Walsh as OC. You want tough, zombie coaches will make our players terrifying.
by bevosbackside on Oct 9, 2011 11:27 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Beautifil
Also, we should fire the entire staff, hire zombie Vince Lombardi as head coach, Dick Lebeau as DC, and zombie Bill Walsh as OC. You want tough, zombie coaches will make our players terrifying.
and sig worthy.
Mr. Bean?
I know my question doesn’t relate to the defense and I have yet to review the game, but my impression from the stands was that we did not use D. J. Monroe, again. Am I wrong or is there something about him that I am missing? It just seems to me that with all the young talent we are playing that we should utilize all available experienced players. I would include Goodwin in that group
by eirehorn on Oct 9, 2011 11:31 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Monroe
We rushed DJ 3 times and he picked up 23 yards. I think the thought was that OU was playing to take away the speed on the edges and our best hope was to run up the middle with Malcolm Brown. As poorly as we passed the ball, though, we probably should have tried to do more with speed stuff to the edges; Monroe looked good when he had the ball in his hands.
75-37-5. Now GTFO.
Forgot
I am sorry I forgot to say how much I enjoy reading your analysis and insight of our games. I always feel I have learned something new.
by eirehorn on Oct 9, 2011 11:45 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
The problem isn’t that we lost,
it’s that we lost to a rival in a way that no big time program or current national championship contender has lost in recent years. Except LSU (lost to Florida in 2008 by 30), Wisconsin (lost to PSU by 41 in 2008 and by 31 in 2007 and FSU by 29 in 2008), Oklahoma State (27-0 to OU in 2009 and by 36 to Tech in 2008), Stanford (41-3 against ASU in 2007), and OU (by 28 to Tech in 2009).
But seriously, this NEVER happens to other programs and when it does (but it never happens- EVAR!) it means those programs will never compete again (not even the next season).
Rational thinking?
Not in my weekend threads after a loss!!
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 9, 2011 12:08 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
I see your point
but i remember always hearing from family," dont judge youself by what others do.", and i saw the point made that when we get beat by OU, man do we get beat, not just a few points here or there but an ASSWOOPIN. The sky isnt falling and there is hope, but this game is important to recruiting and it should never get that bad. The problem is that for the last 3 years we recruited soft O-Linemen w/o a meanstreak in their body and in turn you get what we got yesterday.
Doom and Gloom
All I see in weekend threads following a loss. Pry why I don’t contribute much on the weekends.
For those that have been following, and have a reasonable ability to check their emotions, we knew what to expect yesterday. Nothing should have surprised us. The O-line struggled in pass pro. David Ash make young mistakes. Case couldn’t handle the inside blitz. The corners got beat one on one a few times. Blake Gideon bit on pump fakes. Does any of that surprise you?
We knew OU is far better than us right now. This week and next were more than likely a 2 loss stretch. When we look awful against teams that it’s a coin flip (Aggie, Baylor, maybe Tech) or teams we should beat (Kansas, K-State, Mizzou) then we should be concerned.
We knew that lazy recruiting evals and sub-par coaching would catch up to us, and it has. It’s not gonna fix itself after 4 weeks. We have good assistants, and a string of 3 pretty good classes coming up. A loss to OU is not a sign of the apocalypse. Calm. Down.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 9, 2011 12:16 PM CDT via iPhone app reply actions
I think this is a good point.
If we are going to have a game with an excess of mistakes (and with a younger team, we should expect more than one game like that, but maybe not at this point in the season), it is probably better to have it against a team that we are less likely to defeat. Still, I hate losing to OU, and they still suck.
Hook ’em
by BurntOrange&Blue on Oct 9, 2011 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Now if we were the sly Texans of legend
we would have waited till now to announce the Long Horn Network and it was going to play any high school games it wanted. The news would have dropped out of site while OU celebrates and the other teams would look at the RRR loss and say so what to the LHN.
by Xerxes on Oct 9, 2011 12:24 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Talent Evaluating
Its all about coaching everyone who gets mad we got are ass beat calm down.You should be mad at the coaches who sat there during the Colt McCoy era. Two reasons
1. Lack of coaching
2.Lack of talent evaluating
A few notes to ponder
First, from personal experience, I can tell you that the difference between a freshman and sophomore (both from size and skill) is immense. We now have a great strength coach, probably the best in the nation, and we will see our boys get stronger. 0U was so much stronger than we were, especially on the line, that it was pitiful. Second, the difference between a sophomore and junior/senior (from a skill and strength standpoint) is again light years. 0U was filled with upper class men. We had 23 freshmen or redshirt freshmen (read practice squad last year) on our 2 deep roster. It was a game of men against boys, and the men won. I have faith in the direction we are going, but it was an ugly beat down, no two ways about it.
Games are won on these issues:
Skill and experience – 0U wins here
In the trenches – 0U killed us here. Our linemen never showed up.
turnovers – I don’t really need to touch on this one much more.
We were so badly beat in the trenches, a very skilled QB would have had trouble yesterday. Colt was able to have a good RS freshman year because we still had a good offensive line. If you analyze the games for the final two years of his eligibility, our OL remained the same, if not just a bit weaker. Our DL was palatable because of the freak of nature Orakpo who is now a beast in his sophomore year in the NFL. We don’t have strength on either side of the line at the moment. DL is looking better but needs a bit more time.
On the downside, we got bitch-slapped yesterday. We got schooled. I could go on.
On the plus side, we have some pretty awesome skill players on the offense and defense that will forever be very pissed off about yesterday. Experience is what you get when competing for an outcome that you don’t achieve. The Horns got a ton of experience yesterday. We will fix our line problem over the next year or two. Our new strength coach will make sure of this. Surles will work on their footwork and skills and they will get better. It’s going to be a rough year or two, but we will pull out of this and get better.
Molōn Labe
by ChefWill on Oct 9, 2011 12:52 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Well put.
People keep saying we were flat outcoached, which I think is the perception created by being utterly dominated. The difference in strength was apparent, but to account for that you have to understand that most of their players had the advantage of two or more years in a big time college strength and conditioning program, plus two more years of life in which to work out. There’s no reason to expect that all else being equal, younger people who haven’t had as much time to work out are going to hold up against their elders. It’s like if you had a big brother that you fought with, he always seemed to be stronger. Well, that makes sense. He’s had extra years to develop his muscles.
Of course, one also has to consider the difference in time spent working on the muscle memory required for the systems in which they play and understanding of the game at this level.
I don’t understand why so many among us have such a hard time seeing the differences between the teams as anything other than a difference in anger, hunger, and coaching. That’s just a poorly thought out over-simplification.
"The only sport that should be cried over is tee ball."
- don't remember who said it, but I like it.
We were out coached
But it wasn’t just guys with headsets on yesterday. It was the guys wearing the headsets the last 3 years slacking off in recruiting and player development.
That I can agree with.
We wouldn’t be playing so many freshmen and sophomores if it weren’t for past coaching ineptitude.
"The only sport that should be cried over is tee ball."
- don't remember who said it, but I like it.
by HookTech on Oct 9, 2011 4:43 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
A question
Not only are we playing alot of freshmen and sophomores, but they showed a table on the screen during the game that was of interest to me. It was small and shown only briefly but seemed to indicate that there are many more freshmen and sophomore on the entire team. Given that I believe we usually sign about the same number each year, the classes should be approximately balanced. Have that many upper classmen quit due to injuries or other reasons, funked out, been cut , transferred, or gone to the NFL early? We are being told we lost because we are a young team. Well, if you are playing underclassmen because they are better than the upperclassmen, then you can’t use youth as an excuse. You are saying these young guys are ahead of where they should be and are ready. If you are playing the young guys because you just don’t have any decent upperclassmen, that raises serious questions about recruiting, development, and retention.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
I think this is a function of poor recruiting and evaluation 3 and 4 years ago.
The underclassmen are playing because they are better, but it still isn’t reasonable to expect them to be as strong or experienced as an upperclassman at OU. Maybe our underclassmen are better than upperclassmen at ISU and UCLA, but not upperclassmen at OU.
"The only sport that should be cried over is tee ball."
- don't remember who said it, but I like it.
Well put
It will be interesting to hear what practice is like this week, and how we start Saturday. The 2010 squad would have rolled over this week and the coaches would have been business as usual. This staff appears to be the kind to get after some asses following this appearance. We’ll see how the kids respond.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Oct 9, 2011 3:18 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Yeh Imagine Coach Wylie looking for you, yikes...
Because being a Texas fan means never having to say you're sorry.
Losing to OU
Losing to OU is going to happen in this series, they’re consistently good, we’re good more often than not, it’s why it’s such a good series. They get theirs, we get ours. But getting blown out in a loss is a very one-sided affair in the series. And that’s what stinks so bad.
Here’s a round up of the biggest margin of victory in the series (since WW II – there were three that favored UT, one that favored OU before then):
UT Wins by 30+ points:
2005, 45-12 (33 pts)
1970, 41-9 (32 pts)
1998, 34-3 (31 pts)
OU Wins by 30+ points:
2003, 65-13 (52 pts)
2000, 63-14 (49 pts)
1956, 45-0 (45 pts)
1973, 52-13 (39 pts)
2011, 55-17 (38 pts)
1986, 47-12 (35 pts)
1987, 44-9 (35 pts)
Now I know many will say a win is a win and a loss is a loss, be it by one point in overtime or 52 points in a blowout. But I do think there’s a difference (as do poll voters who decide conference tie-breakers).
The fact that three of the five worst losses in the series have come under Mack Brown is not a good mark on his resume. And while he’s had two big wins (1998 pre-Stoops, 2005 VY season) neither tops the top seven win margins by OU in history. So, UT’s blowout wins in the series are both fewer (3-7) than OU’s and by smaller margins than all seven of OU’s wins.
What sits in my craw worse than anything is that 2005 season when we had the horses to give a 60+ point thumping to OU he pulled them off. He’s a “sportsman”. I write that heavy on sarcasm, because when you have a chance to knock a bully as hard as he’s knocked you around before you do. That’s just the rule of the schoolyard. Otherwise he’s still the bigger, badder ass. And football is about bad-asses on the gridiron, not Miss Manners.
And knowing that even if we get as good as many of us are hopeful of in 2012, 2013 and CAN return the favor to OU, Mack Brown WON’T is beyond depressing. I truly think MB enjoys being BS’s bitch. The numbers of championships (2-7), head-to-head record (5-8) and number of routs he’s satisfied with Stoops owning over him belie that sentiment. Otherwise he’d pull out all the stops and have better teams prepared for the biggest regular season game of the year. The whole BS choking in bowls is a canard of an argument, IMHO, because his bowl losses were the result of being in the bigger bowls in the first place than UT has been able to reach during MB’s tenure.
I’m not calling for MB to get fired as a result of the debacle yesterday. If this team responds like the 2000 and 2003 squads and finishes strong the 2011 rout becomes another sour memory. But if it cascades into pathetic throes like 2010 he will have very little support to go on. MB is quite obviously a good coach as demonstrated by his record at UT. But he’s simply not as good a coach as Stoops, as much as I HATE to admit that. Even BS’s down seasons at OU have never been as low as MB’s at UT. If now we’re saying that a 5-loss season would somehow be all should expect after last year’s epic fail, five losses being BS’s worst result as something all UT is realistically capable of, then shame on you as a Longhorn fan for being so easily satisfied. Satisfied to eat Sooner shit, happy to get the one out of every four championships that OU lets get away during their “rebuilding, young years”. I guess if I was as easily satisfied I’d have less emotion watching a game, glad to know that we had kids who strap on the burnt-orange regardless of how well they play. Noble and all. But for losers.
In all reality
I’d much rather have a coach who calls off the wolves and puts in his backups to get experience. Stoops, who really likes to twist the knife when he has the chance, kept his starting players in with a 38 pt lead. His two starting linebackers got hurt. Karma has a way of handling things. We ran up the score a lot under VY and were criticized heavily for it. MB let VY have his way because he knew where they were headed and didn’t want to change anything. However, I prefer a coach that who defaults to getting experience for his players rather than running up the score. We didn’t get that opportunity under Colt because we really didn’t have the luxury of having large leads to pad, thus the reason Garrett had so little playing time. Even though we went to the NC with Colt, problems within the line and with backups were readily apparent to even the most average football analyst.
Coaching had its issues over the last couple of years, no doubt. Too many of the coaches, and players, had a sense of entitlement, a subject harried to death on this forum. I give MB considerable credit to recognize it and proceed to engage in the most radical coaching change that likely any college in the FBS has seen. That is not the mark of a bad or disinterested coach trying to keep the status quotient. That is someone who is willing to put his career and legacy on the line. That is, in the vernacular, BALLS!
Mack Brown is a great coach and CEO who recognizes problems and will change them regardless of what his fan base thinks. He will be in the College Hall of Fame one of these days. Knowing what I know, he puts sincere focus on the kids and their college careers, both academically as well as within a sporting context. UT also has higher academic standards for its incoming athletes that any school in the SEC, and most of the schools in the Big 12-2-1+1. We have our share of issues (athletic, academic, legal, take your pick), but we will work through them as we always have and be better off because of it. Those who criticize Mack are just one of those folks who want to find a scapegoat. We have young kids playing ball. They will get better, and I can believe that we will have another streak of 10 win seasons, if not another NC.
Molōn Labe
solid post
I will just add it sucks. We got our collective asses kicked. If we lose by 38 next week I will jion many of you and scream for changes. Now if this team regroups and comes out and shows their resolve and plays a solid game, not necessarily winning but real improvement. Then I think we will look at this thread and say “oops, we were just upset”. This is the week we find out about the coaching staff
by codaxx on Oct 9, 2011 4:33 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
No doubt, it sucks
but I will hold off on screaming for changes until next season. I wasn’t expecting much this season because of our youth, both in players and coaches. If we don’t see any improvement over the course of the season, and into next season, I will completely concur with you.
I still think our strongest weakness is at QB (in spite of the line). Ash has the biggest upside, and I think McCoy will always be a better backup. VY was a great recruit. Colt was just great luck. We really need to focus on QB’s over the next couple of recruiting periods.
Molōn Labe
Texas is (or used to be) spoiled at the QB position. How many schools have one of the greatest college players and after he is gone, have the most winning QB in CF history follow? This just doesn’t happen. Most programs have mediocre to relatively good QBs come through. We may need to adjust our expectations at the position just a little.
SEC- Southern Evangelical Cheaters. Since Jesus didn't specifically mention cheating in football in the New Testament, they are good to go.
speaking of winningest QBs
anyone else wanna talk about Kellen Moore breaking Colt’s record in two games? Pisses me off, no way in hell he should be allowed to claim that record when beating the “division 1” teams he has played as opposed to playing the teams Colt played, really makes me angry.
Because being a Texas fan means never having to say you're sorry.
Agree With Some
But what explains the head-to-head comparison of Bob Stoops v. Mack Brown? He’s not hit the lows at OU that MB has hit at UT. He has more championships, more wins versus us, more and bigger blowouts. And he’s doing it with no recruiting advantage over UT. None. If the series was a 50-50 affair I’d be satisfied to call it two equally matched programs. But it’s not. And it’s been more than a couple of seasons. After yesterday it’s safe to say that BS is a better coach than MB. Period. And that’s what sucks. BS may be one of the top three coaches in the NCAA, and MB may be a top five or ten coach. But the drop off in success from BS to MB is noticeable and too real to ignore any longer. They’ve got the better end of the bargain, and the only way MB will ever dominate OU and win championships more often than them is when BS is gone. MB has shown he can prevail only one out of every four years, typically corresponding with OU’s having a young QB or OL when UT has a more experienced squad. The other years when experience is similar OU wins. Sure, MB will probably get us back to ten-win seasons. But he still will lose to BS three out of every four seasons on average, and BS will still earn three conference championships for every one we earn. His legacy will be that he led UT to second in conference more often than any other UT coach. MB is unarguably an inferior coach to BS. That sucks. But I’m no longer in denial about it. After yesterday I’ve come to accept it. Kinda like being a Bills or Vikings fan when they were good – just not good enough.
Hard to make the better coach comparison on W/L and championship records alone
It is possible, and I suspect it is true, that MB and BS have a different (but of course, somewhat overlapping) set of priorities for their teams and their programs. I much prefer MB to BS as the face of one of my alma mater’s highly visible programs. But I do miss DKR.
Hook ’em
BO&B
by BurntOrange&Blue on Oct 9, 2011 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Have you thought about what MB does for brining in the character players?
I know stoopsy has a better W/L and whatnot but look at the caliber of players as far as morals and ethics. that has to count for a little, I know I know it is not as good but there is value there isnt there? I mean one of the Acho’s, forgot which, just won what amounts to the academic/good person heisman award.
Don’t flame me for that as the sole complaint I have had about Coach Brown is the lack of conference champs also. Just wanted to throw in the little piece above.
Because being a Texas fan means never having to say you're sorry.
Not sure if you can really make the values/ethics comparison
Mack did have a summer with double-digit arrests. Only thing Mack has on Stoops is a cleaner NCAA rap sheet.
I agree with you. I believe Stoops is a better coach than Mack.
I also think he’s a first class jerk. But the evidence is there in conference championships, 7-2. If not for the stinger at KSU in 2006 to Colt it would be 6-3 and if not for the stupid tie breaker rule in 2008 it would be 5-4. And to take this a step further, if not for Chrissy Simms getting everyone injured in 2001 it would be 5-5.
Now granted, 2001 falls on Mack for not playing Applewhite, but ’06 and ’08 were just plain bad luck. Would you be up in arms as much if the tally was 5-4?
Do not be distracted by what you see, but be transformed by what you believe.
That's a lot of "if"s!
It just makes you sick, though, to keep giving up those conference titles to the evil empire. You cannot blame 2008 on the sooners – they did what they had to do after the RRR loss – square blame goes on the poll voters (coaches like Briles) that didn’t favor an unbelievable Texas team that proved on the field that they were better than the sooners. And in 2010, a&m beat both ou & Nebraska and should have been in the title game. I get sick of justifying everything too. It’s sickening seeing ou weasel their way into titles.
The last two times we were thumped like, this... 2000 and 2003
We finished 9-3 and 10-3 respectively.
That is all.
Don't really think that is going to happen this year
We have a relatively strong conference.
Molōn Labe
RetireMackBrownNow.com
Bring in a coach that can teach our recruits to play at the level of their talent.
The bottom line is a successful offensive line has to be developed and in a game where the players are replaced every 3 – 4 years with new 18 year olds requires diligence and intelligence in recruiting, coaching and planning. We have failed at all three of these for years – complacency, incompetence or just pure lazy (those coaches are gone and we are paying the consequences now). Gilbert’s development was harmed due to the lack of a supporting o-line and Malcolm Brown could be putting up numbers similar to Lattimore if not for the poor o-line play. We should never have had such a drop off in o-line talent, but we did.
A under-performing o-line creates the perception of all the following:
1. Poor QB play and mistakes
2. Running backs who fall down at the line of scrimmage (all our RB’s last year)
3. WR who can’t get open
4. Poor scheming and play calling
5. Defensive failures (because offense can’t stay on the field)
6. Lack of development of talent at skill positions
After Saturday’s game, who is going to step up and take it to the next level on the o-line. On the o-line, if the upperclassmen fail, we need to get our underclassman the valuable experience and expect more from them.
The good news is we will not face as talented a d-line as we did yesterday for the rest of the year and the o-line may not be dominant, but may be barely good enough to win (i.e. UCLA and ISU). If you re-watch the ISU game, the o-line sucked in the 2nd half against ISU too. I hope the coaches rattle the cages of the o-line and stop pussy-footing around the problems and hold them accountable.
Staing the obvious
With the pool of talent available to us every single year… Why do we always seem to be outclassed in o-line… we hit on 1 or 2 d-line players and are average on the rest… You need to look back at recent successes… Mac stumbled into VY… he did not want to play him… Colt and VY gave this team confidence thet they could win any game… not Mac… Ranked ahead of OU every year by talkin heads in recruiting… cuz make just recruits off their lists… once recruited… kids need coachin… its not happening here, and has not for a lon time…. Mac for AD…. or let him go…. I dont ever want to hear that Texas has never seen a team like OU again… PERIOD
Look back at the recruits Mac has completely missed on… start w RGIII and work back…. its freakin ridiculous!!!!!
p.s. Next a post by burrito sayin “calm down” burrito must be Mac himself….
lord please…. URBAN MEYER!!!!
by HornsFanArlington on Oct 9, 2011 11:13 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
RGIII is a terrible example.
Everybody missed on him as qb. Every school that offered him offered as an athlete except Art Briles and Houston and then Briles and Baylor.
Do not be distracted by what you see, but be transformed by what you believe.
I love Mack
but i agree… losing to OU like we did is pretty inexcusable. I want to give Mack this yr and next yr to give the new coordinators and S&C work a chance to show results on the field but if no real changes happen, i think Mack should retire after the 2012 or 2013 season.
Urban Meyer would be awesome but i fear his health issues. Peterson would be awesome as well and i like his classiness.
OSU
Looking forward to see what heart & character has when we play Okie lite. Either we play some inspired ball or fold like last year.
I'm hearing alot
of Negativity about Coach Mack Brown. People blaming Mack wholeheartedly for this are wrong. I’ll be the first to tell you that we have recruited like crap over the last 2-3 years. But Mack is the best CEO in the business. He doesn’t have the same fire and energy of a Bob Stoops but he’s also 15+ years older…. Mack does an excellent job of not micromanaging his staff and letting them do their jobs. I have no beefs with Mack. He is the quintissential coach for our program. My problem is the players we have recruited over the years. It seems we are more interested in landing top players on PAPER, then ones that will actually amount to anything on the FIELD. I’m tired of the top paper recruiting classes. Maybe we need to look harder at the 3 star players that we overlook year in and year out. And stop recruiting overrated 5 star bums…
Could not agree more.
I think you hit it on the head. We recruit great players on paper, but there are intangibles where many coaches miss on players. RGIII is a great example. Some players may not be outstanding in HS, but have the physical, emotional, or intellectual ability to grow into a phenomenal athlete. I think 0U has done well in finding a few of those players. I wouldn’t have given two bits for Landry Jones two years ago. This year he looks like a first round draft pick. Not awesome physically, but very smart in analyzing defenses. I won’t go into SEC recruits because their academic standards are below ours which allows a different kind of athlete to come to their school. I agree with an earlier post where I believe we are missing out on some JUCO players, and I think it would be especially good to find a few to add to the offensive line at the moment.
Mac’s a great CEO, which is what a good head coach needs to be. He’s very likely one of the best coaches in the history of UT, definitely on par with DKR. I remember some bad years that DKR had, yet he came back as well. Mac lets his coaches coach, and questions results, rather than tells them how to coach. I do believe our new line coaches will fix the well understood problem of getting beat in the trenches. However, as I posted earlier, it takes a couple of years to see the fruits of a good line recruitment. They truly have to grow into the position.
Molōn Labe
A simple recruiting formula would be to fight for any recruit that ou wants.
Not really sure why they never fight ou for their recruits. Seems like they’ve always just let ‘em have ’em, without a fight. Seems like if we attacked that, then we’d pull a few golden nuggets away from them and use their talent evaluations to OUR advantage.
Brown vs Stoops
I love Mack Brown, but I have to admit that Stoops is the better coach. I was at the game and OU played with a bloodlust we couldn’t match. OU ALWAYS plays with a bloodlust we can’t match. Only once in the Stoops era has UT beaten OU when the two teams were on equal footing (2008). The rest of our wins in the series correspond w/ OU having major issues, especially at QB. Stoops hates Texas and it passes on to his players. Mack is not hardcore enough. I would LOVE to hear Mack come out and do a DKR and call Stoops “a sorry bastard”, something.
I don’t want Mack to be a classless A-hole like Stoops, but it does kill us sometimes. If we hang 60 on Mizzou and OSU in 2008 like OU did, we would have won that tiebreaker. OU players will run into hell for Stoops, like they would Switzer in the day. I can’t say that ours would. You can be a nice guy off the field, but on it you need to be a bad ass. Other than 2005, when has Texas ever been badass?
by amarillotxhornfan on Oct 10, 2011 1:37 AM CDT reply actions
Criticisms below... I want to see smarter routes and better coverage skills next week
One thing that stuck out to me was that our defense didn’t play up to OU’s tempo. We were moving about half as fast. We should’ve been aware about, and prepared for, OU’s fast pace, which should’ve been obvious from watching film (as well as all over the press, obviously).
Diaz’s claim to fame is blitzing, which worked fine for UCLA, but not so much against a quick, accurate QB with a strong o-line, like OU.
Not only that, but OU QB and WRs comprise a smart offense who have been coached well on how to read and adjust on the fly. They were practically laughing at the post-game conference, about how they were able to execute against what they saw as our weaknesses on film, CBs in isolation. That’s what happens when we blitz and stack close, leaving plenty of space for them. Our defensive scheme made little sense on OU’s 3rd and 25 play, for example.
We should’ve gameplanned for the fact that OU is much stronger at passing than at rushing (with no hotshot RB) this year. OU rushed for just 86 yards against us because they only attempted 19 rushes, at 4.5 ypc.
It was bothersome to see our tackling and coverage be so poor. These are BASIC skills which should’ve been learned in high school and/or retaught at the freshman level. I’m not sure whether to blame this on player inexperience or teaching and Diaz’s schemes, but it’s probably some of both.
These are just my observations… will withhold judgment, too early to tell… let’s see how we play against OSU and other quality opponents.
I don’t want to see simply greater energy and crazy blitzing, though… I want to see smarter routes and better coverage skills from the defense.
"Defense struggled vs OU"
Don’t be biased against the source… This commentator does seem to understand football well, probably played before. Thoughts?
That's a good thread
It probably shouldn’t surprise us that Diaz may have been caught off guard by exactly how good Jones and his receivers were.
Diaz challenged Jones to make some tough throws, and also challenged our personnel in some coverages, and was burned a few times.
He took a defense designed to shut down the run and put it against a 80/20 pass/run offense with a QB and receivers that will play on Sundays.
I expect Diaz will adjust his schemes, but he was caught out a little.
Even so, Diaz might have been thinking like I was, in that I thought we would get a little more pressure on Jones in the pocket with our front 4.
OU’s O-Line really held up beyond my expectations.
It's called corruption and deceit!
There is a reason The SEC is strong continually, they make no jokes about what they set out to do and who they seek to do it.
They also are allowed to recruit neanderthals with double digit IQ’s – two a year. If they are 6’2", 225 lb.s and can run a 4.4 40 it doesn’t matter if they can read the “See Dick Run” primer.
We’re Texas.
We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
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